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View Full Version : Do you want a Dh in both leagues or not



EwanSellars
11-05-2012, 09:29 PM
Since the Astros are moving to the Al the leagues will be realigned making interleague play a lot more common do you guys think that both leagues should incorporate a DH in their league or have pitchers bat in both leagues

sexicano31
11-05-2012, 09:32 PM
I honestly dont care. Just make it the same for everyone

Fly
11-05-2012, 09:32 PM
Just add the DH

abe_froman
11-05-2012, 09:34 PM
no,i like it the way it is.which is why i'm not a fan of the astros joining the al,but dh as full position in both leagues is going to happen so its a moot point.

metswon69
11-05-2012, 09:35 PM
Not this argument again :facepalm:

Jeffy25
11-05-2012, 09:39 PM
no

ccugrad1
11-05-2012, 09:42 PM
Do away with the DH

LASportsFan1996
11-05-2012, 09:43 PM
No, **** the DH

rhino17
11-05-2012, 09:43 PM
No DH in any league

sexicano31
11-05-2012, 09:44 PM
No, **** the DH

Why?

Bravo95
11-05-2012, 09:46 PM
Yes.

hoggin88
11-05-2012, 10:00 PM
Oh god, another DH thread. :laugh2:

marlinschamps
11-05-2012, 10:05 PM
dh is an over paid player who cant play Defance.
interleague play is bad, unless it same devison
player each otheir. plus n.l. owener dont want to spend
that extar money.

sexicano31
11-05-2012, 10:09 PM
I dont know of many plays who can play defance

JoeDirt05
11-05-2012, 10:12 PM
DH is a pretty easy way to play because it takes less strategy manage not having to deal with knowing when to use a pinch hitter like you have to in the NL

Aphrum
11-05-2012, 10:20 PM
DH is soooo boring

ugafan
11-05-2012, 10:25 PM
DH is soooo boring

But watching pitchers strike out or ground out 9 times out of 10 is enthralling!

ciaban
11-05-2012, 10:28 PM
For the longest time i was against the DH, i didn't like it and preferred the national leagues game better, but after putting a lot of thought into it, there really should be a dh,
No matter how good of a hitter your starter is, he really wouldn't be good enough to start at any other position, i would rather have a guy who gets daily real world experience in that spot than some pitcher. I would rather have vernon wells hitting than matt cain.(Jeff Mathis is the one exception to this rule.)
It allows teams to use a slightly injured player they wouldn't be able to use other wise. It allows for teams to rotate players. Giants fans just think how much easier would it be to have Posey DH on days that he doesn't catch instead of forcing him to 1st and belt to left, etc.

It just is better.

HowFit
11-05-2012, 10:32 PM
No!

MetsLegacy
11-05-2012, 10:33 PM
dh is an over paid player who cant play Defance.
interleague play is bad, unless it same devison
player each otheir. plus n.l. owener dont want to spend
that extar money.

What.

LASportsFan1996
11-05-2012, 10:37 PM
I dont know of many plays who can play defance


What.

I was gonna say something. but didn't wanna be mean :laugh2:

dtmagnet
11-05-2012, 10:41 PM
Take away the DH and you put 15 guys out of a job. I like the DH in the AL, if NL doesn't want one then don't have one but don't try to take it away from the AL.

WAYNEBO
11-05-2012, 10:41 PM
I'm a AL fan all the way (Yankees, Angels), and I hate the DH... purify the game.

whitesoxfan83
11-05-2012, 10:42 PM
The NL needs to get with the program.

There's too much money in great pitchers for them to be batting. DH all around...

mike_noodles
11-05-2012, 10:45 PM
I love that the leagues are different. I'd keep it that way.

MetsLegacy
11-05-2012, 10:46 PM
The NL needs to get with the program.

There's too much money in great pitchers for them to be batting. DH all around...

This.

2009mvp
11-05-2012, 10:47 PM
Take away the DH and you put 15 guys out of a job. I like the DH in the AL, if NL doesn't want one then don't have one but don't try to take it away from the AL.

Eh, not really. There are very few true DH's out there anymore, most teams have started to use the spot more creatively than that. A guy like Jim Thome is the only one I could imagine being totally out of a job without the DH spot, and even then you have to remember that guys like Jason Giambi still sit on NL benches.


I'm a AL fan all the way (Yankees, Angels), and I hate the DH... purify the game.

What does that even mean?

Puck017
11-05-2012, 10:49 PM
I'll pass no need to add another position to take away from my teams payroll.

metswon69
11-05-2012, 10:51 PM
No DH, keep the NL the way it is and AL the way it is.

Saying that, this is gonna become an issue next year when they have interleague play everyday.

Hypothetically imagine Baltimore and the Yankees are fighting for the division title the last week of the season and Baltimore is on the road with no DH and the Yankees are home with the DH.

I can hear the cries of injustice already.

Bombtista
11-05-2012, 10:52 PM
DH is soooo boring

Adam Dunn, Jim Thome, Edwin Encarnacion, Paul Konerko, Billy Butler etc. must all be boring players.

I like watching these players. The DH allows for platooning and resting injured or over played players for at least half of their duties.

Watching a player who wouldnt make the sugarland skeeters as a hitter face off with major league pitching is just not as entertaining as watching a player like the ones i mentioned above

RTL
11-05-2012, 10:54 PM
I like having a choice to root for the AL and NL brand. Keep it the way it is.

SenorGato
11-05-2012, 10:58 PM
I like having a choice to root for the AL and NL brand. Keep it the way it is.

Yep.

Nomar
11-05-2012, 11:14 PM
Yes

TRUTH-TELLER
11-05-2012, 11:18 PM
keep them separate

hugepatsfan
11-05-2012, 11:21 PM
Hell yeah

YoungStuna
11-05-2012, 11:27 PM
Yes either DH in both leagues or no DH at all. AL teams have the advantage of giving out insane long term deals because they can rest their players at DH when they can't field anymore.

I think the DH is long overdue in the NL, I've never enjoyed watching pitcher's face off against big league pitchers, I'd rather see some guy that can actually hit but has no position with the team.

macc
11-05-2012, 11:34 PM
I've never been one to have strong feelings for one way or the other but my instinct tells me if you're in the field you should bat, just like how you played growing up. The DH can be more fun to watch but I think the pictures batting is the right way. Though as I said, I could go either way and not lose any sleep over it.

GA16Angels
11-05-2012, 11:38 PM
Yes. It makes everything more fair.

Another thing that would be cool is if the home teams could choose if they wanted a DH for specific games like during spring training. It could add more strategy to the game...

nirvana235
11-05-2012, 11:46 PM
Oh so people want to make the game even more boring for the casual fan by decreasing offense even more...

Canterbury
11-05-2012, 11:46 PM
I'll accept the DH in the NL if they made it so that DHs comes out of the game whenever the starting pitcher comes out of the game.

For relief pitchers, they can either bat for themselves or have someone DH for that specific pitcher.

TheRazorboy
11-05-2012, 11:49 PM
Count me as a fan of an AL team who despises the DH. I would love to see it done away with across the board, but of course the MLBPA would never allow that to happen.

Yankee Clipper
11-05-2012, 11:50 PM
Yeah.

1-800-STFU
11-05-2012, 11:51 PM
Sure

MetsFanatic19
11-06-2012, 12:01 AM
With interleague being played every day now, it got a lot more even. I say just leave it the way it is.

Halladay
11-06-2012, 12:05 AM
I don't even wanna know how many of these threads I've seen over the years.

Quinnsanity
11-06-2012, 12:24 AM
Here's my thing. Isn't the goal of professional sports to see the best players playing at their spots? Pitchers aren't the best hitters in the world. It waters down the product by forcing them to hit when there are professional hitters sitting on the bench.

OldStyleCubbies
11-06-2012, 01:16 AM
Pitchers hitting is the way baseball is supposed to be played. National League til I die.

redbird89
11-06-2012, 01:24 AM
I feel like the NL has a purer form of baseball. Having the DH also takes a lot of strategy out of it.

Either take the DH away from the AL (which is unlikely to happen) or leave it the way it is.

redbird89
11-06-2012, 01:25 AM
Here's my thing. Isn't the goal of professional sports to see the best players playing at their spots? Pitchers aren't the best hitters in the world. It waters down the product by forcing them to hit when there are professional hitters sitting on the bench.

But should you have position players only playing half the game? They can't be the best at their position if they can't hit and field.

sexicano31
11-06-2012, 01:32 AM
Oh so people want to make the game even more boring for the casual fan by decreasing offense even more...

Theres not much difference in offense between the AL and NL

hoggin88
11-06-2012, 01:53 AM
I think the NL will probably adopt the DH within the next five years, particularly with interleauge becoming more frequent throughout the schedule starting next year.

cbs9889
11-06-2012, 02:01 AM
just wait until your teams star pitcher gets hurt running the bases and then we can talk about how pointless and boring the N.L. is

Jazzman707
11-06-2012, 02:17 AM
I'm new to PSD but I suspect this horse is a fine powder from years of being beaten.

I couldn't care less what the AL does, but I prefer the NL style of play. Status quo all the way.

redbird89
11-06-2012, 02:28 AM
just wait until your teams star pitcher gets hurt running the bases and then we can talk about how pointless and boring the N.L. is

If your pitcher is so fragile that he hurts himself running the bases maybe he has no business being in the majors.

My understanding is that pitchers are often the best hitters when they are kids, and as they get older they are told they can't hit and they don't take batting practice. Maybe pitchers would be better hitters if they were actually encouraged to hit throughout their middle, high school, and college careers.

dballss
11-06-2012, 02:37 AM
i hate watching pitchers bat, its a different story if they are even avg at it but they're not even close

******2017
11-06-2012, 02:38 AM
I want it to either stay the same or get rid of the DH all together. I love the NL style of baseball over any. The only time I'd really want the DH used is the All-Star game because they never bat the pitchers anyway and they don't waste players as pinch hitters.

******2017
11-06-2012, 02:38 AM
If your pitcher is so fragile that he hurts himself running the bases maybe he has no business being in the majors.

My understanding is that pitchers are often the best hitters when they are kids, and as they get older they are told they can't hit and they don't take batting practice. Maybe pitchers would be better hitters if they were actually encouraged to hit throughout their middle, high school, and college careers.
:clap:

metswon69
11-06-2012, 03:08 AM
I'm new to PSD but I suspect this horse is a fine powder from years of being beaten.

That's an understatement...

ciaban
11-06-2012, 06:21 AM
the funny thing to me is you hear people griping about how pitchers should hit and it's more pure, but what about relievers? they are pitchers too, but when it comes to them you would rather let the 4th OF or someone else come up to the plate.

When people say they like pitchers hitting what they mean is, "i like pitchers hitting through the first 6 innings but not after that." All i ask from anyone is consistency, and that's true about politics, religion, philosophy and even sports

thefeckcampaign
11-06-2012, 06:59 AM
No. Stop trying to make it the NBA.

thefeckcampaign
11-06-2012, 07:02 AM
Why not DH at all the positions? Be like football and have an offense and a defense while you're at it.

MetsFanatic19
11-06-2012, 08:17 AM
No. Stop trying to make it the NBA.

The NBA has a DH?

dodgersuck
11-06-2012, 09:39 AM
No. Having a DH is for little *****es

Jeffy25
11-06-2012, 09:49 AM
Every time we have this discussion it comes from two backgrounds.

If you grew up a fan of an AL team since the mid 70's, you likely support the DH. If you grew up a fan of an NL team, you are likely opposed to it (with some people being different from this).

Neither is right or wrong, it's just a matter of opinion.


I personally wonder, why a DH for the pitcher? When will it end? Will baseball eventually turn into a sport like football, where you have 9 hitters, and 9 defensive players? Every position is DH'd? I mean, why not? It's the same thing.

I love the old-fashioned, 9 vs 9 game of baseball. That's me. It's a matter of opinions.

fanofclendennon
11-06-2012, 09:49 AM
I like having a choice to root for the AL and NL brand. Keep it the way it is.

You can't have two groups of teams competing with each other under separate rules. For example, what would the Yankees look like without a DH? What would the Mets look like with one? Makes a huge difference in how teams put together their roster, yet now there will be interleague play every day.

Personally, I despise the DH, always will, but i don't want to get into all that again since it's not the topic of this thread. It is long overdue that one way or the other, the two leagues get on the same page. Since the AL will NEVER drop the DH, and since the DH is used overwhelmingly in just about all professional and amateur leagues, it's time for the NL to adopt it.

Jeffy25
11-06-2012, 09:50 AM
the funny thing to me is you hear people griping about how pitchers should hit and it's more pure, but what about relievers? they are pitchers too, but when it comes to them you would rather let the 4th OF or someone else come up to the plate.

When people say they like pitchers hitting what they mean is, "i like pitchers hitting through the first 6 innings but not after that." All i ask from anyone is consistency, and that's true about politics, religion, philosophy and even sports

When you pinch hit, the pitcher is taken out. If you want them to hit, let them.

You are misintrepeting what people are arguing.

Pinstripe pride
11-06-2012, 09:56 AM
i dont care which way they go, but make both leagues the same

SpecialFNK
11-06-2012, 10:10 AM
this isn't your typical DH vs no DH argument, because up until now you could still have the AL with the DH and the NL with no DH. but it's different now. with Houston moving to the AL and 15 teams in each league, in order to have every team playing you're going to have an interleague game every day with every team playing. in order to be fair you're going to have to rotate teams so they all play the same number of interleague games. that means a lot more games with AL teams playing in the NL and NL teams playing in the AL. so what do you do?

having pitchers hit all the time wouldn't be anything new. the NL has been doing it for how long now?
it's also not AL pitchers vs NL pitchers, because with free agency pitchers can move around between leagues.

but I do think baseball should make the DH in both leagues. let the pitchers do what they are there to do, pitch, not hit. a starting pitcher has more control over the game than anyone else.
I'm sure there are defenders out there that are really great at defense. what would happen if these defenders were really bad at hitting? would a team continue to play them on a regular/semi regular basis if they were playing great defense but not hitting? doubtful.

whatever happens I do think it should be either all DH or no DH.

gattaca
11-06-2012, 10:14 AM
I honestly dont care. Just make it the same for everyone

this

MetsFanatic19
11-06-2012, 11:08 AM
the funny thing to me is you hear people griping about how pitchers should hit and it's more pure, but what about relievers? they are pitchers too, but when it comes to them you would rather let the 4th OF or someone else come up to the plate.

When people say they like pitchers hitting what they mean is, "i like pitchers hitting through the first 6 innings but not after that." All i ask from anyone is consistency, and that's true about politics, religion, philosophy and even sports

That's because you're likely to replace the reliever. It's all about strategy. What if your lefty first baseman is up with the bases loaded, but against a LHP and he can't hit lefties for nothing. You would pinch hit for him, wouldn't you, or would you make the case for no pinch hitting ever if there is no DH?

You obviously want the best opportunity to score runs, but the DH discussion isn't about that. It's a bout the purity of the game and how strategy is somewhat taken away from the AL teams.

fanofclendennon
11-06-2012, 11:29 AM
That's because you're likely to replace the reliever. It's all about strategy. What if your lefty first baseman is up with the bases loaded, but against a LHP and he can't hit lefties for nothing. You would pinch hit for him, wouldn't you, or would you make the case for no pinch hitting ever if there is no DH?

You obviously want the best opportunity to score runs, but the DH discussion isn't about that. It's a bout the purity of the game and how strategy is somewhat taken away from the AL teams.

I really didn't want to go there in this thread but i guess i let myself get sucked into it.

The DH just makes life easy. Your starting pitcher is lights out in a scoreless or close game? Easy, with the DH there's no need to worry about whether he'll have to hit in a key situation.

You've got a slugger who is a liability in the field? Easy, just make him your DH.

You want to rest one of your veterans but are afraid of losing his bat in the lineup? Easy, make him the DH.

You've got two great hitters on your team who play the same position? Easy, make one of them your DH.

This is why I hate the DH. I prefer hardball over softball or easyball.

ShockerArt
11-06-2012, 12:52 PM
I don't care either way. I just want both leagues to use the same rules. If they ever make uniform rules for the two leagues, it will be putting the DH in place in both. The players union will never allow MLB to abolish the DH.

Rio40
11-06-2012, 12:56 PM
Either add a DH to both leagues or get rid of the DH all together. It is an unfair advantage in inter league play and the WS.

Having sometimes your best hitter as a DH is a heavy advantage for the AL. Pinch hitters for the NL are not meant to hit 4 or 5 at bats a game.

KNICKS R BACK
11-06-2012, 01:10 PM
NO DH...pitchers should have to bat...the DH is just there for unsophisticated fans who only want to see home runs

DIEHARD YANKEE
11-06-2012, 01:42 PM
NO DH...pitchers should have to bat...the DH is just there for unsophisticated fans who only want to see home runs

Pitchers do not make MLB teams for their hitting ability. They are there to pitch! I get tired of watching an automatic out come to the plate every few innings,especially when there are runners in scoring position.

The DH is beneficial because you can't just pitch around guys to get to that auto-out, you can rest a player for a day without losing his bat which in return gives some players more longevity.

To those of you so hell bent on pitchers hitting I have a solution:

If the pitcher should have to hit, the hitters should have to pitch!

Using your logic we should just have everyone play every position whether or not it is what they are best at or trained to do. Just rotate the players every inning.

Jeffy25
11-06-2012, 02:01 PM
Pitchers do not make MLB teams for their hitting ability. They are there to pitch! I get tired of watching an automatic out come to the plate every few innings,especially when there are runners in scoring position.

The DH is beneficial because you can't just pitch around guys to get to that auto-out, you can rest a player for a day without losing his bat which in return gives some players more longevity.

To those of you so hell bent on pitchers hitting I have a solution:

If the pitcher should have to hit, the hitters should have to pitch!

Using your logic we should just have everyone play every position whether or not it is what they are best at or trained to do. Just rotate the players every inning.

At what point do we just make it 9 DH's and 9 defensive players?


For example, the Cardinals this past season could have fielded this lineup

1. Matt Carpenter
2. Carlos Beltran
3. Matt Holliday
4. Allen Craig
5. Yadier Molina
6. David Freese
7. Lance Berkman
8. Matt Adams
9. Jon Jay

And then defense could be
C - Molina
1B - Allen Craig
2B - Daniel Descalso
3B - Matt Carpenter
SS - Rafael Furcal
LF - Shane Robinson
CF - Jon Jay
RF - Adron Chambers

Why not just carry that as your team?

It's the same thing, you are saying this player can't hit well enough and designating them for a better hitter. Why not make that option available for all 9 positions then? What's the difference?

No more Brendan Ryan hitting. He now has a real value as a gold glove defensive shortstop who now doesn't have to hurt his team with his bat. Instead, the Mariners can sign a guy like Adam Dunn to hit in his place and never have to put him in the field.


Literally, what is the difference here between this set up and having the pitcher carrying a replacement hitter for them? Why shouldn't catchers, or shortstops, or weak fielding first basemen get the same advantages? Adam Dunn didn't make a team to play defense, just like your argument, pitchers don't make teams to hit.

Infamous916
11-06-2012, 02:20 PM
I feel like the NL has a purer form of baseball. Having the DH also takes a lot of strategy out of it.

Either take the DH away from the AL (which is unlikely to happen) or leave it the way it is.
This.

Jeffy25
11-06-2012, 02:22 PM
For those arguing here, regardless of your side of the opinion.


The DH is far more likely to be added to the NL than taken from the AL, and it's very possible it happens with the next collective bargaining agreement.

fanofclendennon
11-06-2012, 02:47 PM
For those arguing here, regardless of your side of the opinion.


The DH is far more likely to be added to the NL than taken from the AL, and it's very possible it happens with the next collective bargaining agreement.

ding ding ding ding ding!!!!

Precisely. The NL just needs to get on board already. Much to the chagrin of me and others, the DH is here to stay. The sooner the NL realizes this the better.

gaughan333
11-06-2012, 02:47 PM
I don't really care either way, I'd just like to see it be the same in both leagues.

Infamous916
11-06-2012, 02:49 PM
ding ding ding ding ding!!!!

Precisely. The NL just needs to get on board already. Much to the chagrin of me and others, the DH is here to stay. The sooner the NL realizes this the better.
NL is fine the way it's always been.

psp66
11-06-2012, 03:12 PM
got to know when to take pitcher out in american league.in national league score of game dictates that.get a monkey for your manager national league teams

psp66
11-06-2012, 03:17 PM
giants are real exciting,i would rather stare at a bucket of vomit for three hours than watch the giants are any other nl team.both leagues should have dh!!!!

Ill21
11-06-2012, 03:30 PM
Leave it the way it is.

MetsFanatic19
11-06-2012, 03:36 PM
Pitchers do not make MLB teams for their hitting ability. They are there to pitch! I get tired of watching an automatic out come to the plate every few innings,especially when there are runners in scoring position.

The DH is beneficial because you can't just pitch around guys to get to that auto-out, you can rest a player for a day without losing his bat which in return gives some players more longevity.

To those of you so hell bent on pitchers hitting I have a solution:

If the pitcher should have to hit, the hitters should have to pitch!

Using your logic we should just have everyone play every position whether or not it is what they are best at or trained to do. Just rotate the players every inning.

A pitcher is a position, on the field of play. Just like short stop, centerfield, and first base. That's a very silly comment.

metsfaninSTL
11-06-2012, 04:02 PM
no dh in either league

GasMan
11-06-2012, 04:07 PM
I think they should have an in-stadium fan vote 10 minutes before the first pitch of every game to determine if the DH is in effect for that game or not. That'll sell some seats.

MetsFanatic19
11-06-2012, 04:10 PM
That's democracy for ya'. It is America's pastime, after all.

mgsports
11-06-2012, 04:38 PM
Both Pitcher and DH in the Lineup.

SouthSideRookie
11-06-2012, 04:52 PM
For those arguing here, regardless of your side of the opinion.


The DH is far more likely to be added to the NL than taken from the AL, and it's very possible it happens with the next collective bargaining agreement.

Where are you getting this from, im just curious.

Jeffy25
11-06-2012, 05:07 PM
Where are you getting this from, im just curious.

It would take me awhile to find the links now, but apparently there were some advanced discussions regarding this last CBA. A few 'insiders' reported it.

And we know that Players union won't let the DH get away, since it's an additional money opportunity for a paying position.

Jeffy25
11-06-2012, 05:08 PM
I think they should have an in-stadium fan vote 10 minutes before the first pitch of every game to determine if the DH is in effect for that game or not. That'll sell some seats.

Hahaha, and what's funny is that it would likely always be a close vote

It seems overall, that majority of fans are mostly split on the DH

metswon69
11-06-2012, 05:14 PM
Hahaha, and what's funny is that it would likely always be a close vote

It seems overall, that majority of fans are mostly split on the DH

As it always seems everytime we have this discussion :p

Skippy15
11-06-2012, 05:25 PM
Not at all. I can't stand players getting over paid like David Ortiz. The guy literally can't play defense. He doesn't deserve the amount of money he is paid but he gets it because he can hit.

It's also a way to let players be lazy. Ortiz is getting tons of money and I have high doubts he does much more than play a little catch at practice.

People who try to use the excuse that pitchers shouldn't run bases, they could get hurt, are you serious? Your gonna give guys making 10 million dollars a year an excuse not to run? Run? The thing we all did from the time we were able to take our first steps? The thing we can all do right now? It's not like anyone is asking them to be Ricky Henderson on the bases. But there's no excuse for not being able to simply run the bases. No one is saying they need to take out runners and all that but running the bases is simple. Don't give me they could get hurt

papipapsmanny
11-06-2012, 05:51 PM
Im a nats and sox fan and I hate watching the pitcher hit. I hate watching them be basic auto outs and then its a surprise if they do something

theslick1
11-06-2012, 06:09 PM
Not at all. I can't stand players getting over paid like David Ortiz. The guy literally can't play defense. He doesn't deserve the amount of money he is paid but he gets it because he can hit.

It's also a way to let players be lazy. Ortiz is getting tons of money and I have high doubts he does much more than play a little catch at practice.

Ortiz is probably better with the glove than most pitchers are with the bat.

IBleedPurple
11-06-2012, 07:00 PM
No DH, make the players play both offense and defense. Encourage pitchers to learn how to hit, and stop supporting lazy, older players that can't field anymore.

******2017
11-06-2012, 07:10 PM
In terms of the 15 team leagues and interleague all year, it's not like there's a ton more interleague games. It's pretty much the same, it's just teams can't plan to call up guys based on typical interleague play weeks. There's the same amount of opportunities for AL teams to bat the pitcher as the NL gets to use the DH. It's funny how many people say it's dumb to have interleague play all year when all the other sports do. It's also not like the rules are drastically different. The game is still played the same with a 9 player batting order and 9 players on defense. The DH in American League parks and pitcher batting in NL parks isn't a big deal or difference except for offensive production and since it's not one team getting one rule and the other getting the other in the same game it's fair for both teams.

I'd prefer you play every team each year and it's possible by cutting out some divisional games and pretty much everyone in each division would have a somewhat balanced schedule with some teams only being one series at home one year and on the road the next.

northsider
11-06-2012, 07:22 PM
No thanks to the DH.

YoungStuna
11-06-2012, 07:32 PM
Hahaha, and what's funny is that it would likely always be a close vote

It seems overall, that majority of fans are mostly split on the DH

Why don't we add a poll here?

Jeffy25
11-06-2012, 07:56 PM
Why don't we add a poll here?

Those that ask, shall receive

mariner4life
11-06-2012, 08:37 PM
I love the strategy that the N.L has. Its the 5th or 6th inning and your losing 1 to 0. You have the bases loaded with the pitcher coming up. Do you pinch hit for him?

Sometimes N.L. managers try and squeeze one more out from the reliever because he is leading off the next inning.
There is so much more strategy in the N.L. its not even funny.

I have heard the argument that watching pitchers hit isn't enjoyable.
Should there be Designated Runners? It isn't pretty watching Ortiz running the bases. Isn't it the same argument?

dballss
11-06-2012, 08:53 PM
No DH makes the game more pure but also makes it more ugly...watching pitchers pitch around the 8th guy just to face the pitcher, having pitchers sacrifice even in non-sacrifice situations, when they do bat seeing those ugly soft swings, knowing that they'll strike out most the time, and when they surprising get a hit seeing the fans react laugh and cheer like its a joke

******2017
11-06-2012, 09:01 PM
No DH makes the game more pure but also makes it more ugly...watching pitchers pitch around the 8th guy just to face the pitcher, having pitchers sacrifice even in non-sacrifice situations, when they do bat seeing those ugly soft swings, knowing that they'll strike out most the time, and when they surprising get a hit seeing the fans react laugh and cheer like its a joke
You only pitch around the 8 hitter if there's less than 2 outs. With 2 outs you attack the 8 hitter and face the pitcher leading off the next inning if possible.

If they actually made pitchers bat in both leagues it would improve pitcher hitting overall because there would be more emphasis in it. There's quite a few young pitchers that are still able to hit despite the minimal plate appearances they receive.

long ball
11-06-2012, 10:25 PM
i honestly dont care. Just make it the same for everyone rt

lol, please
11-06-2012, 10:35 PM
Not this argument again :facepalm:


no

This.

fanofclendennon
11-06-2012, 10:45 PM
NL is fine the way it's always been.

No, it's not. The NL now has to play a significant number of games against teams playing under different rules.

That is not fine.

fanofclendennon
11-06-2012, 10:52 PM
Where are you getting this from, im just curious.

Common sense, really.

the DH means a lot more money to the baseball players. There is no way the Player's Association is going to let the AL get rid of it without putting up a major fight.

Also, the DH is the law of the land in an overwhelming number of professional and amateur leagues. In fact, everywhere but the NL, the DH is the default.

There's about as much chance of the AL dropping the DH as there is of Toyota getting rid of automatic transmission.

Conversely, it's just a matter of time until the NL finally adopts the DH. Might as well happen sooner rather than later.

SpecialFNK
11-06-2012, 11:12 PM
with more interleague games I think it favors the NL teams. they have bench players they can just plug into the DH spot. some NL teams even have bench players who could be regular DH players. AL teams have to lose a regular every day player and have a pitcher hit who likely has not even taken batting practice often.

purity of the game is not a good argument. purity of the game was having no wild card teams making the playoffs.

MotownWebGuy
11-07-2012, 12:06 AM
I want to see...
DH both leagues
More interleague play

ciaban
11-07-2012, 01:00 AM
When you pinch hit, the pitcher is taken out. If you want them to hit, let them.

You are misintrepeting what people are arguing.
really i have seen a hand full of people say "if you play defense in the field you should have to hit" relief pitchers play just as much defense as starters. So if starters should hit because they play defense, then why shouldn't relievers?

That's because you're likely to replace the reliever. It's all about strategy. What if your lefty first baseman is up with the bases loaded, but against a LHP and he can't hit lefties for nothing. You would pinch hit for him, wouldn't you, or would you make the case for no pinch hitting ever if there is no DH?

You obviously want the best opportunity to score runs, but the DH discussion isn't about that. It's a bout the purity of the game and how strategy is somewhat taken away from the AL teams.
if we are discussing the best opportunity to score, then that's with the DH,

considering how HGH, taking steroids popping greenies, and this is stuff that has been going on since the 70's, it doesn't take strategy away it just puts more emphasis on the building of the club.

Pitchers do not make MLB teams for their hitting ability. They are there to pitch! I get tired of watching an automatic out come to the plate every few innings,especially when there are runners in scoring position.

The DH is beneficial because you can't just pitch around guys to get to that auto-out, you can rest a player for a day without losing his bat which in return gives some players more longevity.

To those of you so hell bent on pitchers hitting I have a solution:

If the pitcher should have to hit, the hitters should have to pitch!

Using your logic we should just have everyone play every position whether or not it is what they are best at or trained to do. Just rotate the players every inning.
nice lol

Vampirate
11-07-2012, 03:37 AM
Here's a solution, go with a 8 man lineup instead of a 9 man lineup. That way there are no DH and no pitchers hitting, every fan gets what they want.

******2017
11-07-2012, 03:43 AM
It would make more sense to go to a 10 batter lineup. Then you get both. The EH allows you to make defensive changes and keep guys fresh. It's been a fun position to use that last 2 years coaching USSSA baseball.

Jeffy25
11-07-2012, 03:48 AM
It would make more sense to go to a 10 batter lineup. Then you get both. The EH allows you to make defensive changes and keep guys fresh. It's been a fun position to use that last 2 years coaching USSSA baseball.

Question:

Is it alternative. I.e.

Let's say I have an EH, and a good hitting pitcher, and a poor hitting shortstop. Could I have the pitcher hit, and the shortstop be replaced as the other EH?


I guess I'm asking if you could explain it a little better :)

******2017
11-07-2012, 03:54 AM
Everyone in the lineup bats. The only thing the EH can do is sub in for any player on the field defensively. The player that comes out becomes the EH. You don't have to play in the field but you have to bat. That's the point of a 10 man batting order.

To expand on what you're saying, it could be nice in some cases to have the DH be for any player on defense. In 2011, if the Brewers had a DH and could use it on any player, Yustinky Betnacourt would have never gotten an at bat. Gallardo, Greinke, Marucm, Narveson and Wolf would have.

guilfomania
11-07-2012, 08:27 AM
Which ever way they go, both leagues should be on the same page. My initial reaction was to scoff at the idea of the DH. On second thought, I don't think that it's such a bad idea. The only problem is is that many NL rosters aren't designed with a DH in mind. So, they'd have to go out and get players for that position.

On a similar note. Something that I really think needs to change is the pace of game. The umpires need to keep the batters in the batter's box throughout their ABs. Also, keep the pitcher's pace moving along as well.

burgh_fan66
11-07-2012, 09:37 AM
Here's my thing. Isn't the goal of professional sports to see the best players playing at their spots? Pitchers aren't the best hitters in the world. It waters down the product by forcing them to hit when there are professional hitters sitting on the bench.

Eh ... not really. In the NFL I'm sure there are some offensive and defensive starters (who don't play ST) who would make better special team players than some of the guys actually doing the job. The NBA doesn't allow teams to use a designated free throw shooter just because a guy who is fouled is terrible at that part of the game. Even in baseball there are great defenders (superior to most players at their position in the MLB) who never got a real chance in the majors because they could barely hit. I could go on for instance my Pirates just signed Darren Ford and he is probably now our best base runner but I won't get to see him do that.

psp66
11-07-2012, 10:23 AM
If your pitcher is so fragile that he hurts himself running the bases maybe he has no business being in the majors.

My understanding is that pitchers are often the best hitters when they are kids, and as they get older they are told they can't hit and they don't take batting practice. Maybe pitchers would be better hitters if they were actually encouraged to hit throughout their middle, high school, and college careers.

watching a pitcher take 3 strikes then going back to the dugout is exciting baseball!!!!

getfoul
11-07-2012, 10:24 AM
Here's a solution, go with a 8 man lineup instead of a 9 man lineup. That way there are no DH and no pitchers hitting, every fan gets what they want.

That doesn't seem any more drastic than 40 years ago going with a DH. I'd like that. But with Pujols and Fielder's contracts, they would have to Grandfather the DH for years.

I actually hope they keep it the same because once they're playing with the same rules, they'll be more tempted to go to radical realignment, which would be awful.

mgsports
11-07-2012, 10:38 AM
No it wouldn't because we don't a Midwest,Southeast Divisions and theirs enoth Teams in California for a Division.

thapastime7
11-07-2012, 11:14 AM
for all you nl lovers when your team gives a player a long term deal into there late 30 and cant field but still could hit the dh is a perfect place ...i dont underswtand why in the world would you enjoy your pitcher hitting and riskying getting hurt running bases or being hit with a 90 mph fastball i just dont get either put the dh or remove the pitcher from hitting and only bat 8 players instead 9 in which there will be more at bats for lineup

boomrsoonr
11-07-2012, 11:34 AM
Watching the game unfold with a pitcher's spot in the batting order is part of the beauty of the game. For a manager, it extends far beyond simply letting the pitcher hit. Who's in the bullpen...who's left on the bench...who's coming up for the opposition...righty?...lefty?...what inning is it...so on and so on. Watching Bochy manage this situation (to perfection I might add) in these last playoffs was simply beautiful to behold. He simply wins games for SF purely with his mastery of this concept. Plus, some of these pitchers are better hitters than many may think. Didn't the Giants pitchers have an RBI in 4 straight playoff games? That's getting it done. And many are VERY adept at laying down a bunt and situational hitting.

And as far as injuries go, that's part of the game. But the pitcher getting hurt while at the plate or on the basepaths? I don't buy that argument...happens to infrequently.

The NL will never go to a DL...IMO. Much better chance of the AL getting pure again, and getting rid of what was a horrible idea in the first place. Again...just my opinion.

SpecialFNK
11-07-2012, 12:17 PM
I don't ever see the DH going away. too many big name players that are DH now or will become a DH in the future that more fans would want to see. would people want to see David Ortiz batting or a instead a pitcher in his place all the time?

but I can see the argument though for no DH with more challenging moves made. but I would still rather see a DH everywhere, and more offensive scoring.

Vampirate
11-07-2012, 12:45 PM
Why not have it where the official dh bats but then swithes with a defensive player every second inning, then back.

Well here an example.

Inning 1 the DH would hit and all position players would field thier respective positions.

Inning 2 the dh switches position with any position of the managers choice, the player becomes the dh and the dh plays that position.

inning 3 the DH goes back to his regular dh duties and the player back to his regular position

inning 4 the DH again switches with a player, but cannot switch with a position he previously played.

This would go on until the game was over. If by some hilarious chance the DH played all positions including the pitcher than he can play any of the positions all over again.

Imagine David ortiz playing shortstop. :D

ManningToTyree
11-07-2012, 01:02 PM
NL guys: Hell no. I don't think we should have it at all.
Al guys: Hell yes. NL needs to get with the times.

/thread

lol, please
11-07-2012, 02:01 PM
NL guys: Hell no. I don't think we should have it at all.
Al guys: Hell yes. NL needs to get with the times.

/threadDid you expect it any other way?

Does it surprise anyone it's fans of AL teams that want it to change? Frankly I think it's hilarious.

mlswain12
11-08-2012, 12:11 AM
I think the DH needs to be abolished, however seeing the MLBPA will never agree to it, I suggest this compromise:

If the AL wants to keep the DH rule (rule 6.10), just change the rule so that the DH can bat for any defensive position except the pitcher.

It will still allow for more offense while keeping the strategy intact.

It will finally allow home field in the World Series to be determined based on W/L records.

The All Star Game will go back to what it was meant to be.

Young2Kinsler
11-08-2012, 10:14 AM
Lord knows I am dying to watch a guy bat who practices it 5% of the time, and hasn't been preparing to do it since he was 18.

YES! more pitchers hitting, it's so "pure"

LMAO

Young2Kinsler
11-08-2012, 10:16 AM
I don't ever see the DH going away. too many big name players that are DH now or will become a DH in the future that more fans would want to see. would people want to see David Ortiz batting or a instead a pitcher in his place all the time?

but I can see the argument though for no DH with more challenging moves made. but I would still rather see a DH everywhere, and more offensive scoring.

There is no challenging moves for NL managers. Either pull your pitcher who is on a roll because you know he will fail, or let him fail, give up an out and let him keep pitching.

Those are just great options for the game of baseball, let me tell ya.

Sir, please decide if you will shoot me in the left or right nut...that's about what that decision equates to.

ManningToTyree
11-08-2012, 10:30 AM
Did you expect it any other way?

Does it surprise anyone it's fans of AL teams that want it to change? Frankly I think it's hilarious.

Nope. It is was what it is. If you grew up watching the NL (like I did) you love the nuances of small ball and strategy when it comes to the pitcher hitting.

Obviously AL fans love seeing an extra slugger in their line-up. I won't say the DH is wrong because it has been around for a while now and isn't going anywhere. I just don't want to see the NL conform to it. With the adjustment to inter-league, the DH in the NL might become inevitable.

ManningToTyree
11-08-2012, 10:33 AM
There is no challenging moves for NL managers. Either pull your pitcher who is on a roll because you know he will fail, or let him fail, give up an out and let him keep pitching.

Those are just great options for the game of baseball, let me tell ya.

Sir, please decide if you will shoot me in the left or right nut...that's about what that decision equates to.

You are under selling the strategy. When does a guy get pulled? who do you hit? Do you save your best bat for later in the game? Do you let the pitcher bunt and give him another inning? Do a double switch?

Puck017
11-08-2012, 10:46 AM
Why do some people think both leagues need to be the same? I like the fact that the two leagues are different, makes things more interesting IMO.

Young2Kinsler
11-08-2012, 10:56 AM
Nope. It is was what it is. If you grew up watching the NL (like I did) you love the nuances of small ball and strategy when it comes to the pitcher hitting.
Obviously AL fans love seeing an extra slugger in their line-up. I won't say the DH is wrong because it has been around for a while now and isn't going anywhere. I just don't want to see the NL conform to it. With the adjustment to inter-league, the DH in the NL might become inevitable.

The most over-used idiocy in all of sports maybe.

Jeffy25
11-08-2012, 12:18 PM
The most over-used idiocy in all of sports maybe.

There are plenty worse ones

Young2Kinsler
11-08-2012, 01:11 PM
There are plenty worse ones

I'm sure I was going over the top, but that one is up there for me.

boomrsoonr
11-08-2012, 02:13 PM
"the nuances of small ball and strategy when it comes to the pitcher hitting."


The most over-used idiocy in all of sports maybe.


SF has won 2 out of the last 3 trophies based on this idiocy. Against power-happy AL teams.

:facepalm:

Young2Kinsler
11-08-2012, 02:28 PM
"the nuances of small ball and strategy when it comes to the pitcher hitting."




SF has won 2 out of the last 3 trophies based on this idiocy. Against power-happy AL teams.

:facepalm:

If you think having a pitcher hit won the Giants a World Series, then there really is ZERO point in talking to you.

6cadi6
11-08-2012, 03:20 PM
If you think having a pitcher hit won the Giants a World Series, then there really is ZERO point in talking to you.

:clap:

Lakers + Giants
11-08-2012, 07:47 PM
DH is for *******.

mariner4life
11-08-2012, 09:15 PM
Lord knows I am dying to watch a guy bat who practices it 5% of the time, and hasn't been preparing to do it since he was 18.

YES! more pitchers hitting, it's so "pure"

LMAO

Then you must also want to see designated runners as well. No one wants to watch Ortiz run the bases.

mariner4life
11-08-2012, 09:19 PM
There is no challenging moves for NL managers. Either pull your pitcher who is on a roll because you know he will fail, or let him fail, give up an out and let him keep pitching.

Those are just great options for the game of baseball, let me tell ya.

Sir, please decide if you will shoot me in the left or right nut...that's about what that decision equates to.

The N.L. managers have more challenges. Not sure how this can be disputed?

Young2Kinsler
11-08-2012, 09:52 PM
The N.L. managers have more challenges. Not sure how this can be disputed?

People try to act like they have to solve a Sudoku puzzle to put in a pinch hitter. Every decision they make pulling or not pulling a pitcher for a hitter hurts the game. You lose either way

Young2Kinsler
11-08-2012, 09:53 PM
Then you must also want to see designated runners as well. No one wants to watch Ortiz run the bases.

Ortiz is slow, but he still practices running the bases on a much more regular basis than pitchers in the NL practice hitting

mariner4life
11-08-2012, 10:04 PM
People try to act like they have to solve a Sudoku puzzle to put in a pinch hitter. Every decision they make pulling or not pulling a pitcher for a hitter hurts the game. You lose either way

The N.L has more strategy. Pinch hitting for the pitcher isn't always an easy decision.

ciaban
11-08-2012, 10:40 PM
Did you expect it any other way?

Does it surprise anyone it's fans of AL teams that want it to change? Frankly I think it's hilarious.


The most over-used idiocy in all of sports maybe.


Then you must also want to see designated runners as well. No one wants to watch Ortiz run the bases.


The N.L has more strategy. Pinch hitting for the pitcher isn't always an easy decision.
the only reason it's not an easy decision is if your bench sucks and you don't trust anyone to pinch hit, or if your bull pen sucks and you don't trust anyone to finish the game. that's pretty much about it.

lol, please
11-08-2012, 10:55 PM
The N.L. managers have more challenges. Not sure how this can be disputed?


The N.L has more strategy. Pinch hitting for the pitcher isn't always an easy decision.

A thousand times these. :clap:

mariner4life
11-08-2012, 11:13 PM
the only reason it's not an easy decision is if your bench sucks and you don't trust anyone to pinch hit, or if your bull pen sucks and you don't trust anyone to finish the game. that's pretty much about it.

In the N.L. a manager sometimes gambles and tries to squeeze another out from the pitcher because he is leading off the next inning. This decision does not exist in the A.L.
Its the 6th inning and your losing 1 to 0. There are 2 outs and the bases are loaded. Your ace pitcher who is pitching a gem is coming up to hit. What do you do?
Liking the D.H or hating the D.H is a matter of preference. I'm someone who enjoys more strategy and the D.H takes away from that.

******2017
11-08-2012, 11:17 PM
In the N.L. a manager sometimes gambles and tries to squeeze another out from the pitcher because he is leading off the next inning. This decision does not exist in the A.L.
Its the 6th inning and your losing 1 to 0. There are 2 outs and the bases are loaded. Your ace pitcher who is pitching a gem is coming up to hit. What do you do?
Liking the D.H or hating the D.H is a matter of preference. I'm someone who enjoys more strategy and the D.H takes away from that.
:clap:

Young2Kinsler
11-08-2012, 11:57 PM
But what good is strategy when it makes the game worse?

VenezuelanMet
11-09-2012, 01:02 AM
I don't care either way. I don't think it changes the game at all.

I don't get why bunting, or deciding when to PH or a double switch or whatever a NL manager usually does are considered mindblowing strategy by some hardcore NL fans, lol.

The1_Who_knocks
11-09-2012, 01:20 AM
Just get rid of the DH already >_<

mariner4life
11-09-2012, 01:24 AM
I don't care either way. I don't think it changes the game at all.

I don't get why bunting, or deciding when to PH or a double switch or whatever a NL manager usually does are considered mindblowing strategy by some hardcore NL fans, lol.

Sorry you don't get it

VenezuelanMet
11-09-2012, 01:41 AM
Sorry you don't get it

Yeah, I'm clearly too dumb to get the intrinsicalities of baseball.

I'll just say this: I've never in my life thought "Wow, I wish the Pitcher was batting here instead of the DH so I could see the manager making an exiting, asinine move." Whereas I probably have thought it would be cool to see a real hitter instead of a pitcher in a number of situations.

Jeffy25
11-09-2012, 01:49 AM
Yeah, I'm clearly too dumb to get the intrinsicalities of baseball.

I'll just say this: I've never in my life thought "Wow, I wish the Pitcher was batting here instead of the DH so I could see the manager making an exiting, asinine move." Whereas I probably have thought it would be cool to see a real hitter instead of a pitcher in a number of situations.

There is an advantage in not being a stupid NL manager.


As the game progresses, there are more or less options provided to the NL manager to choose from.


The idea that there is additional strategy is simply false. But there are more choices simply to make, it isn't really a strategy.

Just don't make stupid choices.


Baseball, in terms of management and in-game decisions, is about making fewer stupid decisions than your opponent.

And what's funny, is how often these guys rely on the bunt, one of the stupidest things that they can rely on.


There are more decisions to be made in an NL managed game. Those decisions can have an affect on the game later on, but there isn't a lot of strategy to it, unless you are saving a particular bench player for a particular reliever, or are saving someones particular skill set for a particular scenario.

The problem is that most managers are very unaware of the possibilities around them. It could be strategical opportunities, but most of them, outside of Joe Maddon it seems, have no idea these possibilities exist.

mariner4life
11-09-2012, 02:13 AM
Yeah, I'm clearly too dumb to get the intrinsicalities of baseball.

I'll just say this: I've never in my life thought "Wow, I wish the Pitcher was batting here instead of the DH so I could see the manager making an exiting, asinine move." Whereas I probably have thought it would be cool to see a real hitter instead of a pitcher in a number of situations.

I'll just say this: I've never in my life thought "Wow, I wish the pitcher wasn't batting so a fat slob that can barely move or too old to play can hit for the pitcher.

mariner4life
11-09-2012, 02:54 AM
There is an advantage in not being a stupid NL manager.


As the game progresses, there are more or less options provided to the NL manager to choose from.


The idea that there is additional strategy is simply false. But there are more choices simply to make, it isn't really a strategy.

Just don't make stupid choices.


Baseball, in terms of management and in-game decisions, is about making fewer stupid decisions than your opponent.

And what's funny, is how often these guys rely on the bunt, one of the stupidest things that they can rely on.


There are more decisions to be made in an NL managed game. Those decisions can have an affect on the game later on, but there isn't a lot of strategy to it, unless you are saving a particular bench player for a particular reliever, or are saving someones particular skill set for a particular scenario.

The problem is that most managers are very unaware of the possibilities around them. It could be strategical opportunities, but most of them, outside of Joe Maddon it seems, have no idea these possibilities exist.

I agree with most of the post except for the part you said about their being no additional strategy.
Wikipedia.... A strategy is a plan of action designed to achieve a specific goal. Strategy is all about gaining a position of advantage over adversaries or BEST EXPLOITING EMERGING POSSIBILITIES.
As you already said in your post there are more choices to make in the N.L. therefor there are more emerging possibilities which in result is more strategy.

ciaban
11-09-2012, 04:23 AM
what about the idea of removing the dh, but also not letting the pitcher hit, people keep saying that if you field a position you should hit, none of them have ever said they want to see relievers hit, unless they are rick ankile i guess,

how about just having 8 hitters in the line up so that it turns over more quickly

SouthSideRookie
11-10-2012, 03:58 AM
It would take me awhile to find the links now, but apparently there were some advanced discussions regarding this last CBA. A few 'insiders' reported it.

And we know that Players union won't let the DH get away, since it's an additional money opportunity for a paying position.

Oh ok, I see.


There is no challenging moves for NL managers. Either pull your pitcher who is on a roll because you know he will fail, or let him fail, give up an out and let him keep pitching.

Those are just great options for the game of baseball, let me tell ya.

Sir, please decide if you will shoot me in the left or right nut...that's about what that decision equates to.

This is not true at all. Several managers that have managed in both leagues have said it's a lot more challenging in managing in the NL. Not that it matters anymore for me since the team I root for is AL bound but I hope the NL stays as is. I love NL baseball.

Joemoes
11-10-2012, 06:33 PM
The players union will be against it and it won't happen.... Players lose jobs, money and retire earlier. I think both leagues having separate is unique but if anything happens national league adopts it.