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jayjay33
11-01-2012, 07:21 PM
All Time Draft Order For Players In There Prime If Starting A Team Today?



It's simple, Give me your "all time" draft order based on who you think is "best" if you were starting a franchise "TODAY".

To avoid confusion I'll give an example. If yoy don't think prime Bob Cousy could out play Dwill and take his spot lf he was on the nets "today" even thought Cousy is consider an all time great. Then you Can't list him over Dwill, cause that means you don't think he is actually "better". So I am asking for a list in order of who you think are the "best" players to ever play. We are assuming all player are in there prime. 1-25 would be a nice size list.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 07:28 PM
The way you worded this is beyond confusing, but what I think you're trying to say is to just rank the top 25 players based on their primes. Is that about right?

Yabaecip
11-01-2012, 07:35 PM
Well here it is, no Nuggets though... =/
1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Lou Alcindor
4. Larry Bird
5. Magic Johnson
6. Bill Russell
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Tim Duncan
10. Wilt Chamberlain
11. Shaquille O'Neal
12. John Stockton
13. Karl Malone
14. Kobe Bryant
15. David Robinson
16. Jerry West
17. Charles Barkley
18. Julius Erving
19.Moses Malone
20. Jerry West
21. Scottie Pippen
22. Isaiah Thomas
23. Gary Payton
24. Patrick Ewing
25. Kevin Garnett

Yabaecip
11-01-2012, 07:37 PM
Maybe I ranked LeBron too high.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 07:39 PM
Maybe I ranked LeBron too high.

Lol yes u did.
11-15 IMO

Lakerfrk
11-01-2012, 07:40 PM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Larry Bird
4. Kareen Abdul Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Shaquille O'neal
8. Bill Russel
9. Tim Duncan
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Lebron James
12. Karl Malone
13. Oscar Robinson
14. John Stockton
15. Charles Barkley
16. John Havlicek
17. David Robinson
18. Julius Erving
19. Gary Payton
20. Moses Malone
21. Jerry West
22. Kevin Garnett
23. Scottie Pippin
24. Dwyane Wade
25. James Worthy

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 07:40 PM
Actually nvm.. 1-5.

Yabaecip
11-01-2012, 07:45 PM
Actually nvm.. 1-5.
Yeah haha it is my first time actually sitting down and ranking people, luckily I didn't have any homer picks. Except for Stockton maybe, but that was worth it :eyebrow:

jayjay33
11-01-2012, 07:48 PM
The way you worded this is beyond confusing, but what I think you're trying to say is to just rank the top 25 players based on their primes. Is that about right?

Hence the example which should make it easy for anyone.


The top 25 based in there primes if they were all playing at the same time.


Like say for example if Big O and Dwade are both in there primes on the court at the same time would be the better player?

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 07:51 PM
Since there are 25 spots, I think Bill Walton deserves consideration for a spot on that list despite his short-lived career. He's a top 10 all-time center and had a two-year stretch when he won an MVP and carried the Blazers to their only title with a Finals MVP. He averaged basically 19/14/5/3/1 in those two years and was all-defensive first team both years.

jayjay33
11-01-2012, 07:52 PM
Well here it is, no Nuggets though... =/
1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Lou Alcindor
4. Larry Bird
5. Magic Johnson
6. Bill Russell
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Tim Duncan
10. Wilt Chamberlain
11. Shaquille O'Neal
12. John Stockton
13. Karl Malone
14. Kobe Bryant
15. David Robinson
16. Jerry West
17. Charles Barkley
18. Julius Erving
19.Moses Malone
20. Jerry West
21. Scottie Pippen
22. Isaiah Thomas
23. Gary Payton
24. Patrick Ewing
25. Kevin Garnett


LBJ is certainly in the top 10. But bird and sockton are waaaay to high. Kobe's waaaay to low. An where is wade? You really think John Stockton is better than Dwayne wade?

Raps08-09 Champ
11-01-2012, 07:54 PM
1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Kareem
5. Shaq
6. Lebron
7. Kobe
8. Wilt
9. Olajuwon
10. Duncan/Robinson

That's how I would pick in that order. Though that's not necessarily the rankings in terms of top primes.

Yabaecip
11-01-2012, 07:55 PM
LBJ is certainly in the top 10. But bird and sockton are waaaay to high. Kobe's waaaay to low. An where is wade? You really think John Stockton is better than Dwayne wade?

Personally yes, but that's my opinion. I personally do not like Kobe, but I do like Wade. I guess I just forgot, as I said though this is my first list made ranking players.

jayjay33
11-01-2012, 07:58 PM
Since there are 25 spots, I think Bill Walton deserves consideration for a spot on that list despite his short-lived career. He's a top 10 all-time center and had a two-year stretch when he won an MVP and carried the Blazers to their only title with a Finals MVP. He averaged basically 19/14/5/3/1 in those two years and was all-defensive first team both years.

You make good points. But how would he fair against the other greats. How would he do up against KG OR Duncan. The list makes NO excuses for era's, nutrition, training....etc.

It's just who's the best. So how do you have Walton doing up against the other greats? Where would you Put him in this BBALL Battle Royale?

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 08:02 PM
If we're going solely off of primes matching up against other all-time greats, here's my top 10 (without too much thought put into it)...

1. Michael Jordan
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Lebron James
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Magic Johnson
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Kevin Garnett
10. David Robinson

You'll notice I left out pretty much anyone whose prime was in the 60s and early 70s. That's mostly because I think it's too hard to tell how they would handle playing against today's players, and if I'm drafting based solely on prime, I'm taking the guaranteed cream of the crop. I went Hakeem second, because I think his defense, crafty offense, athleticism and competitive nature would allow him to match up against any center of any era. And Lebron is the second greatest all-around player in the history of the game behind Michael. The last two were tough, but I went with physical, freakish big men in KG and Robinson. I considered Barkley, Dirk and Wade here, but I think Garnett and D-Rob have a greater overall impact because of their defense.

jayjay33
11-01-2012, 08:03 PM
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Larry Bird
4. Kareen Abdul Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Shaquille O'neal
8. Bill Russel
9. Tim Duncan
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Lebron James
12. Karl Malone
13. Oscar Robinson
14. John Stockton
15. Charles Barkley
16. John Havlicek
17. David Robinson
18. Julius Erving
19. Gary Payton
20. Moses Malone
21. Jerry West
22. Kevin Garnett
23. Scottie Pippin
24. Dwyane Wade
25. James Worthy


Good list for the most part. But if you were staring a team today would you really take Havlicek over Dwade? An Hakeem I think is way to low.

jayjay33
11-01-2012, 08:08 PM
If we're going solely off of primes matching up against other all-time greats, here's my top 10 (without too much thought put into it)...

1. Michael Jordan
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Lebron James
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Larry Bird
6. Magic Johnson
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Tim Duncan
9. Kevin Garnett
10. David Robinson

You'll notice I left out pretty much anyone whose prime was in the 60s and early 70s. That's mostly because I think it's too hard to tell how they would handle playing against today's players, and if I'm drafting based solely on prime, I'm taking the guaranteed cream of the crop. I went Hakeem second, because I think his defense, crafty athleticism and competitive nature would allow him to match up against any center of any era. And Lebron is the second greatest all-around player in the history of the game behind Michael. The last two were tough, but I went with physical, freakish big men in KG and Robinson. I considered Barkley, Dirk and Wade here, but I think Garnett and D-Rob have a greater overall impact because of their defense.

Good list now you have it. I personally would have put Kobe in there and took bird out. But That's a good list.


Question though why not wilt? I now what you said about 60 and 70's but you don't think wilt could stand up to the likes of ducan, kg, and Robinson? Wilt was a hurdler after all. No matter what time your in that's inpressive. Lol

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 08:29 PM
Good list now you have it. I personally would have put Kobe in there and took bird out. But That's a good list.
Bird was a better distributor, defender and shooter than Kobe was. He was never as impressive an athlete as guys like Magic or Kareem in his time, but that's why I think he could still play in today's NBA. And statistically, his prime takes Kobe's prime out back and has his way with it.


Question though why not wilt? I now what you said about 60 and 70's but you don't think wilt could stand up to the likes of ducan, kg, and Robinson? Wilt was a hurdler after all. No matter what time your in that's inpressive. Lol
For one, Wilt's numbers are inflated by the several years he played against inferior, smaller, less physical athletes. In the mid 60s, once the talent improved, his numbers fell off a bit. He also was an atrocious free throw shooter.

And I have a problem with his "stats first, me first" attitude. Guys like Lebron and Michael could lead the league in whatever statistical categories they wanted to, but they don't do that, because they know that's not what's best for the team. Wilt never understood that, which is why his team's were never particularly successful against someone like Russell, who did understand it.

Plus, if I had to chose between the hypothetical athleticism of Wilt or the athleticism that I've seen from Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson or Garnett, I'm taking those guys over him.

jayjay33
11-01-2012, 08:55 PM
Good list now you have it. I personally would have put Kobe in there and took bird out. But That's a good list.
Bird was a better distributor, defender and shooter than Kobe was. He was never as impressive an athlete as guys like Magic or Kareem in his time, but that's why I think he could still play in today's NBA. And statistically, his prime takes Kobe's prime out back and has his way with it.


Question though why not wilt? I now what you said about 60 and 70's but you don't think wilt could stand up to the likes of ducan, kg, and Robinson? Wilt was a hurdler after all. No matter what time your in that's inpressive. Lol
For one, Wilt's numbers are inflated by the several years he played against inferior, smaller, less physical athletes. In the mid 60s, once the talent improved, his numbers fell off a bit. He also was an atrocious free throw shooter.

And I have a problem with his "stats first, me first" attitude. Guys like Lebron and Michael could lead the league in whatever statistical categories they wanted to, but they don't do that, because they know that's not what's best for the team. Wilt never understood that, which is why his team's were never particularly successful against someone like Russell, who did understand it.

Plus, if I had to chose between the hypothetical athleticism of Wilt or the athleticism that I've seen from Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson or Garnett, I'm taking those guys over him.


Fair argument in wilt. But there is no way on gods green earth Larry brid is a better defender than Kobe. Not even close. If bird played today guys would be going by him like he was standing still. Lol


An on the same court Kobe's prime takes brid's prime out back and beats him like a drum.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 10:17 PM
Fair argument in wilt. But there is no way on gods green earth Larry brid is a better defender than Kobe. Not even close. If bird played today guys would be going by him like he was standing still. Lol
I dunno. Bird was a much bigger, longer, more physical player than Kobe ever was. He was better in terms of steals, rebounds and blocks and boasts a higher career DRtg and more DWS despite playing fewer seasons. Having not seen Bird play, I can't argue this, because it's not an easy stat to measure without visibly watching firsthand. But I've heard that Bird was a phenomenal defensive player and he earned all-defensive honors in an era when they were actually given to great defensive players and not just awards for the best defensive superstars.


An on the same court Kobe's prime takes brid's prime out back and beats him like a drum.
I'm going to agree to disagree. Bird was a better passer, a better shooter and a more efficient scorer. He wasn't crazy athletic like Kobe, but he didn't have to be because he was more sound fundamentally. Although they didn't play the same positions, I think they're a good comparison, because they're two of the most competitive, hard-working players in the history of the league. But if I had to have a guy to shoot a game winning last second shot, I'm taking Bird over Kobe.

jayjay33
11-02-2012, 12:12 AM
Fair argument in wilt. But there is no way on gods green earth Larry brid is a better defender than Kobe. Not even close. If bird played today guys would be going by him like he was standing still. Lol
I dunno. Bird was a much bigger, longer, more physical player than Kobe ever was. He was better in terms of steals, rebounds and blocks and boasts a higher career DRtg and more DWS despite playing fewer seasons. Having not seen Bird play, I can't argue this, because it's not an easy stat to measure without visibly watching firsthand. But I've heard that Bird was a phenomenal defensive player and he earned all-defensive honors in an era when they were actually given to great defensive players and not just awards for the best defensive superstars.


An on the same court Kobe's prime takes brid's prime out back and beats him like a drum.
I'm going to agree to disagree. Bird was a better passer, a better shooter and a more efficient scorer. He wasn't crazy athletic like Kobe, but he didn't have to be because he was more sound fundamentally. Although they didn't play the same positions, I think they're a good comparison, because they're two of the most competitive, hard-working players in the history of the league. But if I had to have a guy to shoot a game winning last second shot, I'm taking Bird over Kobe.

I don't think you can do it like that. Brid played against a different type of player. The speed and athleticism of today's player in combo with there ability to attack of the dribble and Chang directions would have destroyed bird. You can just look at his mobility and lateral movement. How many guys did brid giard that were doing Cross overs, hesitations....etc.

Bird is just to slow. For today's wings. An that's not a knock on bird it's just basketball. Nobody can stay in front a guy with handle who's much quicker, and stronger than they are.



As far as the last shot. Now that depends since I assume there going to be covered I take Kobe, if there wide open I take bird.....but if you don't know. You got to go Kobe cause he gives you to best chance if it might be either way. So I take Kobe. But we just agree to disagree here.

But if you can find some video of bird. All you have to do is just look at how he moves his feet and you can see he doesn't have anywhere near the lateral movement to stay in front the wing guys today. You can't do anything about slow. Lol

alexander_37
11-02-2012, 12:21 AM
Taking Kobe over a franchise center like Dream/Shaq/Duncan?

Jordan
Dream
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Kareem
Magic
Duncan
David Robinson

jayjay33
11-02-2012, 12:24 AM
Taking Kobe over a franchise center like Dream/Shaq/Duncan?

Jordan
Dream
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Kareem
Magic
Duncan
David Robinson

See I don't think Russell would do That well against the players today. And I'm not taking Jordan over dream.

Money_23
11-02-2012, 03:00 PM
1. Shaq
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. Hakeem
5. Kareem
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Lebron
9. D Rob
10. Kobe