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JasonJohnHorn
11-01-2012, 05:00 PM
I was reading a sig in a post today and noticed that soem Lakers fan believe Kobe should be ranked in the top five all time. I am obviously not of that mind. I grew up during Jordan's prime. I see in Kobe what I saw in Jordan, only less. Kobe does everything that Jordan does, just not as well. That's not to say I don't think Kobe is great. I'd rank him as the second greatest SG of all time (as long as we aren't counting the Big O as a shooting guard). That said, I think Gervn, Drexler and West are all very close to where Kobe is, though none have had the success in terms of winning that Kobe has (but we all know that winning is as much about the situation you are drafted in as it is about your performance on the floor). That said, I have a lot of centers in my top ten (in no particular order); Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Robinson, and Russell. And frankly, I'm not sure I'd put Kobe ahead of any of them. Nor would I put him above the Big O, Magic or Bird and perhaps even Elgin Baylor (and likely, by the time his career is done, I would have LBJ ahead of Kobe).

But let me put the question to you. Where do you rank Kobe all time?

DanG
11-01-2012, 05:03 PM
Somewhere 8-10 with Duncan and Hakeem. #2 Shooting Guard of all-time no question about it.

JordansBulls
11-01-2012, 05:06 PM
He was ranked 8th here.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635088

DanG
11-01-2012, 05:10 PM
I'll go 9th.

MJ
Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Magic
Russell
Bird
Duncan
Kobe
Hakeem

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 05:14 PM
MJ
Kareem
Magic
Shaq
Russell
Wilt
Bryant
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem

I've got him 7th

douglas
11-01-2012, 05:14 PM
I'm not sure where I would rank Kobe Bryant, but I think he is a really good basketball player and he's at least top-200 in all of history.

Dade County
11-01-2012, 05:14 PM
Somewhere 8-10 with Duncan and Hakeem. #2 Shooting Guard of all-time no question about it.

You wont be able to say that in 5 years.

D Wade!

DanG
11-01-2012, 05:16 PM
You wont be able to say that in 5 years.

D Wade!

You think Wade will end up top 10?

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 05:18 PM
I feel like I've already been a part of this discussion like five times in the past week in other threads, but I'll say it again. I have him at No. 10. My 6-9 varies based on how I'm feeling when I'm making my rankings, but generally, this is my list...

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Russell
6. Wilt
7. Hakeem
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Kobe
11. Lebron
12. Moses
13. Oscar
14. West
15. Dr. J

BigCityofDreams
11-01-2012, 05:19 PM
You think Wade will end up top 10?

I think he means Wade will end up as the 2nd best shooting guard of all time.

JasonJohnHorn
11-01-2012, 05:20 PM
He was ranked 8th here.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635088

How did Mikan get voted into the top twenty? :facepalm: That guy wouldn't even make an NBA roster today.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 05:21 PM
I think he means Wade will end up as the 2nd best shooting guard of all time.

Which would in turn put him in the top 10. Not happening.

JordansBulls
11-01-2012, 05:21 PM
How did Mikan get voted into the top twenty? :facepalm: That guy wouldn't even make an NBA roster today.

Do you think Babe Ruth should be considered the greatest in Baseball history still despite not playing in 70 years?

DanG
11-01-2012, 05:22 PM
I think he means Wade will end up as the 2nd best shooting guard of all time.

Yes, I know. Wade has to win atleast 2-3 more titles with a FMVP to get on the same bar with Kobe. And if that happens then Wade is top 10 all-time.

Heediot
11-01-2012, 05:23 PM
I'm not sure where I would rank Kobe Bryant, but I think he is a really good basketball player and he's at least top-200 in all of history.

Are you going be here after thanksgiving?

MackSnackWrap
11-01-2012, 05:23 PM
accidently voted 1st lol

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 05:29 PM
Do you think Babe Ruth should be considered the greatest in Baseball history still despite not playing in 70 years?

It's a different argument, IMO. Because Mikan put up ridiculous numbers in an inferior league, talent wise, with hardly any black players and without a shot clock of any team. I fought REALLY hard against Mikan going that high, and I almost feel like he shouldn't be included in any NBA top players list because of the era.

At least with baseball, the rules are still the same. And if Ruth played today, he might still be able to hit well based on his physical strength. Mikan would get absolutely destroyed against today's NBA centers to the point where he would probably have to play in the D-League.

Heediot
11-01-2012, 05:32 PM
We all say this and that about the oldies but what if they had the same nutrition, strength and condition technology that today's athletes have access to? You never know how they would fare.

Andrew32
11-01-2012, 05:34 PM
Around 9-15 currently for me.

Highest I can imagine him is probably 6 or 7.

He can't ever realistically surpass Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Magic or Russell.
These guys were much better playoff performers then Kobe was over their best 6-12 years and no small edge in longevity can ever make up for that.

Don't see him surpassing Duncan or Hakeem either who aren't that far behind guys like Shaq and Magic.
Then you got Bird and Wilt who he may surpass but it will always be debatable.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 05:41 PM
You wont be able to say that in 5 years.

D Wade!


Lol

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 05:43 PM
Around 9-15 currently for me.

Highest I can imagine him is probably 6 or 7.

He can't ever realistically surpass Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Magic or Russell.
These guys were much better playoff performers then Kobe was over their best 6-12 years and no small edge in longevity can ever make up for that.

Don't see him surpassing Duncan or Hakeem either who aren't that far behind guys like Shaq and Magic.
Then you got Bird and Wilt who he may surpass but it will always be debatable.

You are such a ****en hater :facepalm:

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 05:43 PM
He's my #5 right now

Hardaway Here
11-01-2012, 05:52 PM
You are such a ****en hater :facepalm:

He is a hater because he doesn't have Kobe in his Top 5 all time you are just a homer so your ranking doesn't matter at all

ManRam
11-01-2012, 05:53 PM
Probably 10-15. Closer to 10 than 15.

He'll have a great career when you look at it based on team success and longevity. But there have been 20+ players who have been better in the primes individually than Kobe.

But longevity probably gets him in my top 10 when all is said and done. He'll have some amazing totals when he retires.

He has NO SHOT in my opinion of ever passing Jordan, Magic, Shaq or Russell, probably a few others too. He was never once in his career better than those guys were in their prime.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 05:55 PM
closer to top 10, than top 15 imo. so 11-14.

but im sure he will be top 7-8 when he retires.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 05:59 PM
closer to top 10, than top 15 imo. so 11-14.

but im sure he will be top 7-8 when he retires.

Just curious, what is your top 10?

3RDASYSTEM
11-01-2012, 06:03 PM
Its hard to rank a backup guard turned starter when like 99pct of his fans base his rank off of 5rings(team-gm-owner)-81pt game(scoring guard)-62pt thru 3qtrs(scoring)

so he is one of the greatest scoring guards to come thru based on a few personal accomplishments

but he is such a mirrorimage/copycat of JORDAN that its just like anything else in hollywood sports of today...a recycled clone version of the nba's biggest $$$ cash cow ever...JORDAN

imitation is the weakest manmade artform in history of life,doesnt make you the closest to JORDAN, it makes you a nuthugger(go ask JON BARRY)

i called him a scoring version of PIPPEN
most have PIPPEN a top 50 player ever right? so what is a scoring version of PIPPEN ranked? thats pretty much KB in my book

http://tajtorrence.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/michael-jordan-and-kobe-bryant.jpg

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 06:11 PM
He is a hater because he doesn't have Kobe in his Top 5 all time you are just a homer so your ranking doesn't matter at all

No he is a hater he says Kobe is a top 10-15 player lol his logic is always flawed when he compares Kobe to other players(shaq,wade Etc.), oh and good I don't really care if people care about my opinion or not cuz quite frankly I don't care about theirs either

dh144498
11-01-2012, 06:12 PM
It's a different argument, IMO. Because Mikan put up ridiculous numbers in an inferior league, talent wise, with hardly any black players and without a shot clock of any team. I fought REALLY hard against Mikan going that high, and I almost feel like he shouldn't be included in any NBA top players list because of the era.

At least with baseball, the rules are still the same. And if Ruth played today, he might still be able to hit well based on his physical strength. Mikan would get absolutely destroyed against today's NBA centers to the point where he would probably have to play in the D-League.

that's a silly way to compare past and the present, which is why I spite the people who compare players across eras and compare individual feats. Mikan was the greatest player of his era just like Russell/Wilt were the greatest players of their era, like kareem for his, magic/bird for theirs, jordan for his, etc. When talking about greatness, you don't just say, "oh let's put this dude from the 50's in today's league, and he'll get destroyed." That's not what makes players great. Mikan was great during his era, period. top 20 is more than reasonable.

dh144498
11-01-2012, 06:13 PM
for me kobe is between 7-9.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 06:15 PM
Probably 10-15. Closer to 10 than 15.

He'll have a great career when you look at it based on team success and longevity. But there have been 20+ players who have been better in the primes individually than Kobe.

But longevity probably gets him in my top 10 when all is said and done. He'll have some amazing totals when he retires.

He has NO SHOT in my opinion of ever passing Jordan, Magic, Shaq or Russell, probably a few others too. He was never once in his career better than those guys were in their prime.


Really Russell? Give me Russell's stats please? He wouldn't even be a top 10 player in today's NBA
Jordan I agree he won't pass
But shaq and magic hell hes above shaq sure he might not have been as dominant as shaq but he sure as hell has been a top 5 player much much longer add to the fact that he's still chasing rings as the top option and he's close to surpassing magic shaq is so overrated

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 06:16 PM
Laker fans will start voting soon

dh144498
11-01-2012, 06:16 PM
Around 9-15 currently for me.

Highest I can imagine him is probably 6 or 7.

He can't ever realistically surpass Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Magic or Russell.
These guys were much better playoff performers then Kobe was over their best 6-12 years and no small edge in longevity can ever make up for that.

Don't see him surpassing Duncan or Hakeem either who aren't that far behind guys like Shaq and Magic.
Then you got Bird and Wilt who he may surpass but it will always be debatable.

I have a question, why do you have Bird so low? Or even Wilt for that matter?

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 06:17 PM
You are such a ****en hater :facepalm:

I've followed your posts the last few days, and I've gotta say, I'm extremely unimpressed. Any time anyone doesn't suck off Kobe or have a Lakers' circle jerk, you call them a "hater."

Kobe Bryant is barely a top 10 player, and by the time Lebron's career is over, Kobe won't even crack my top 10 anymore. And I'm not the only person who thinks that way. You can ignore stats all you want to, but just because someone's opinion of your favorite player differs from your own, that doesn't make them less intelligent or a "hater" in any way.

Bravo95
11-01-2012, 06:18 PM
Probably 7-9, ahead of Bird though.

For any player to still be a Top 5-7 active player in his 17th season is pretty damn impressive.

abe_froman
11-01-2012, 06:19 PM
somewhere between 7-10,i put him at 8 or 9 usually

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 06:25 PM
that's a silly way to compare past and the present, which is why I spite the people who compare players across eras and compare individual feats. Mikan was the greatest player of his era just like Russell/Wilt were the greatest players of their era, like kareem for his, magic/bird for theirs, jordan for his, etc. When talking about greatness, you don't just say, "oh let's put this dude from the 50's in today's league, and he'll get destroyed." That's not what makes players great. Mikan was great during his era, period. top 20 is more than reasonable.

But here's my argument.... It was a COMPLETELY different game back then without a shot clock. Players would hold onto the ball for the last few minutes of games to win. He also played only seven entire seasons in the NBA, was a career 40 percent shooter and played in a league where black players were just beginning to be allowed into the league.

There's a ton of reasons why Mikan doesn't belong in the top 20, and very few of them have to do with how he would stack up to today's NBA players. If I made a top 50, he'd probably be at the tail end of my list.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:28 PM
Just curious, what is your top 10?

now this is subject to change, but currently it's :

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. magic
4. Larry legend
5. Bill Russell
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Oscar Robertson
8. shaq
9. duncan
10. jerry west
11. kobe

thats where kobe is on my list, and i fully expect him to be top 7.

this is just my honest opinion..

dh144498
11-01-2012, 06:28 PM
But here's my argument.... It was a COMPLETELY different game back then without a shot clock. Players would hold onto the ball for the last few minutes of games to win. He also played only seven entire seasons in the NBA, was a career 40 percent shooter and played in a league where black players were just beginning to be allowed into the league.

There's a ton of reasons why Mikan doesn't belong in the top 20, and very few of them have to do with how he would stack up to today's NBA players. If I made a top 50, he'd probably be at the tail end of my list.

but he's still the greatest for the era he was in. You can't punish him because the game of basketball wasn't developed as much as it is now. Maybe back then 40% fg was considered god-like, it's all relative, especially for 2 eras that have a 60 year gap. I'd completely agree with you if it was the 80's or 90's, though.

dh144498
11-01-2012, 06:29 PM
now this is subject to change, but currently it's :

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. magic
4. Larry legend
5. Bill Russell
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Oscar Robertson
8. shaq
9. duncan
10. jerry west
11. kobe

thats where kobe is on my list, and i fully expect him to be top 7.

this is just my honest opinion..

so you think he's the 3rd best sg in history?

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:29 PM
i may be a little hard on him, but i dont wanna be looked on as a hater, because im honestly not a kobe hater..

im sure once he retires in a couple of years, he will easily be top 7.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:31 PM
now this is subject to change, but currently it's :

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. magic
4. Larry legend
5. Bill Russell
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Oscar Robertson
8. shaq
9. duncan
10. jerry west
11. kobe

thats where kobe is on my list, and i fully expect him to be top 7.

this is just my honest opinion..

Not a bad list at all. 10 and 11 can flip flop. :facepalm: myself for forgetting the Big O

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:31 PM
so you think he's the 3rd best sg in history?

how lol big o was a pg, i know he played both sg and pg, but i think of him as a pg, as do most ppl i think.

kobe is def the second best sg, now if u think the big o is a sg, than yes kobe is the 3rd best sg...

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:32 PM
i may be a little hard on him, but i dont wanna be looked on as a hater, because im honestly not a kobe hater..

im sure once he retires in a couple of years, he will easily be top 7.

Don't come off as a hater to me, only thing I don't see is how you have the logo over him haha, but to each his own. That's what makes this fun.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:32 PM
Not a bad list at all. 10 and 11 can flip flop. :facepalm: myself for forgetting the Big O

yeah i wouldnt mind if people even put kobe ahead of shaq and duncan and west, because 8-11 is def interchangeable, i fully expect him to be ahead of those guys when he retires though..

abe_froman
11-01-2012, 06:33 PM
that's a silly way to compare past and the present, which is why I spite the people who compare players across eras and compare individual feats. Mikan was the greatest player of his era just like Russell/Wilt were the greatest players of their era, like kareem for his, magic/bird for theirs, jordan for his, etc. When talking about greatness, you don't just say, "oh let's put this dude from the 50's in today's league, and he'll get destroyed." That's not what makes players great. Mikan was great during his era, period. top 20 is more than reasonable.

its a vastly different game back than that hardly resembles the game you no(goal tending was legal,no shot clock,ect.).its like the 19th century version of baseball or football before the forward pass was developed and incorporated in offenses

its too different of a game to be included with what we come to know as the game and players that played that version should be separated

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:34 PM
how lol big o was a pg, i know he played both sg and pg, but i think of him as a pg, as do most ppl i think.

kobe is def the second best sg, now if u think the big o is a sg, than yes kobe is the 3rd best sg...

west is considered a SG

dh144498
11-01-2012, 06:34 PM
how lol big o was a pg, i know he played both sg and pg, but i think of him as a pg, as do most ppl i think.

kobe is def the second best sg, now if u think the big o is a sg, than yes kobe is the 3rd best sg...

i'm talking about Jerry West lol.

dh144498
11-01-2012, 06:35 PM
its a vastly different game back than that hardly resembles the game you no(goal tending was legal,no shot clock,ect.).its like the 19th century version of baseball or football before the forward pass was developed and incorporated in offenses

its too different of a game to be included with what we come to know as the game and played that version should be separated

but still, greatest of his era/generation is still one of the greatest.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:37 PM
i'm talking about Jerry West lol.

really? hmm i thought he played pg lol oh well.. yeah in that case, i guess kobe is the 3rd best sg but dude i fully expect him to be 2nd without a doubt when its all said and done.

kobe is a straight up baller and doing it at this age, smh too good.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 06:39 PM
but he's still the greatest for the era he was in. You can't punish him because the game of basketball wasn't developed as much as it is now. Maybe back then 40% fg was considered god-like, it's all relative, especially for 2 eras that have a 60 year gap. I'd completely agree with you if it was the 80's or 90's, though.
Lol. Yes you can! It's a completely different game. It would be like comparing football players in the 20s when they wore leather helmets to football players today. If you were making an all-time greatest running backs list, would you put Red Grange in the same discussion with Walter Payton, Barry Sanders and Jim Brown? I sure as hell wouldn't.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 06:41 PM
now this is subject to change, but currently it's :

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. magic
4. Larry legend
5. Bill Russell
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Oscar Robertson
8. shaq
9. duncan
10. jerry west
11. kobe

thats where kobe is on my list, and i fully expect him to be top 7.

this is just my honest opinion..
Oscar's too high and there's no Hakeem on this list, IMO. But it's certainly a solid one. I do like that you have Russell ahead of Wilt and Kobe behind Shaq and Duncan, who were clearly the superior players of his era.

dh144498
11-01-2012, 06:42 PM
Lol. Yes you can! It's a completely different game. It would be like comparing football players in the 20s when they wore leather helmets to football players today. If you were making an all-time greatest running backs list, would you put Red Grange in the same discussion with Walter Payton, Barry Sanders and Jim Brown? I sure as hell wouldn't.

if you are comparing individual player vs individual player, then no. But we're talking about all time lists, which isn't just exclusively a player's talents/skills, it's also career and dominance during their career. So Mikan shouldn't be that low.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 06:45 PM
Anyone who doesn't have Kobe in the top 10 is crayzzzzeee!!

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:46 PM
Oscar's too high and there's no Hakeem on this list, IMO. But it's certainly a solid one. I do like that you have Russell ahead of Wilt and Kobe behind Shaq and Duncan, who were clearly the superior players of his era.

HOLY CRAP! I FORGOT HAKEEM! dammit!
smh

ughhh i knew i was forgetting someone.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:47 PM
Anyone who doesn't have Kobe in the top 10 is crayzzzzeee!!

he will def be in my top 10 when its over. top 6-7 to be exact.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 06:48 PM
if you are comparing individual player vs individual player, then no. But we're talking about all time lists, which isn't just exclusively a player's talents/skills, it's also career and dominance during their career. So why not?

Because you have to consider context, dude! You can't just say, "Well clearly Red Grange was the best player of his era and deserves to be in the top five with Payton and Sanders." It was a different era that was racially insensitive with completely different rules that changed the game and a totally lower standard of athletic abilities.

I would make the same argument for basketball in the 40s and 50s. The game wasn't refined and had hardly any black players participating until the late 50s and early 60s. Does Mikan deserve some credit for being the best player of an inferior era? Of course. I would have no problem putting him in the 40-50 range. But I couldn't in good conscience put him in the top 20 with guys who were top 5 of their era playing against superior athletes and a completely different style of basketball that we now know as the NBA.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 06:50 PM
Anyone who doesn't have Kobe in the top 10 is crayzzzzeee!!

:facepalm: Instead of being a jerk and speaking in vague generalizations about people who disagree with you, why not make a case for Kobe is a top 10 player?

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 06:50 PM
Oscar's too high and there's no Hakeem on this list, IMO. But it's certainly a solid one. I do like that you have Russell ahead of Wilt and Kobe behind Shaq and Duncan, who were clearly the superior players of his era.

What have shaq and Duncan done that make them so much superior then Kobe?

xxplayerxx23
11-01-2012, 06:51 PM
9 for me.
Behind Duncan.

jayjay33
11-01-2012, 06:53 PM
Its hard to rank a backup guard turned starter when like 99pct of his fans base his rank off of 5rings(team-gm-owner)-81pt game(scoring guard)-62pt thru 3qtrs(scoring)

so he is one of the greatest scoring guards to come thru based on a few personal accomplishments

but he is such a mirrorimage/copycat of JORDAN that its just like anything else in hollywood sports of today...a recycled clone version of the nba's biggest $$$ cash cow ever...JORDAN

imitation is the weakest manmade artform in history of life,doesnt make you the closest to JORDAN, it makes you a nuthugger(go ask JON BARRY)

i called him a scoring version of PIPPEN
most have PIPPEN a top 50 player ever right? so what is a scoring version of PIPPEN ranked? thats pretty much KB in my book

http://tajtorrence.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/michael-jordan-and-kobe-bryant.jpg


1. This is the dumbest post I have ever seen. All players copycat ALL of them from there friends, there peers, oldera guys, players they see in tv. It's all copied. Even Jordan copycated DR.J so ****ing what.......


2. Wouldn't a scoring scottie pippen be the greatest 2 way player in history? Lol

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 06:55 PM
:facepalm: Instead of being a jerk and speaking in vague generalizations about people who disagree with you, why not make a case for Kobe is a top 10 player?

Top 5 in scoring
10+ all NBA teams
10+ all defense teams
MVP(should have more)
14x all-star and counting
5 time NBA champion
2x finals MVP
Multiple records broken I can go on and on

And without shaq I believe his averages are something like 27-28 ppg 6 reb 5 ast

Name me 5 let alone 10 players with a better career and resume, you just can't

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 06:55 PM
What have shaq and Duncan done that make them so much superior then Kobe?

1. Shaq won three titles as the alpha dog with Kobe as his sidekick (and one as Wade's sidekick). Duncan won four titles as the alpha dog with an inferior supporting cast compared to what Kobe won with his two alpha titles with.

2. Duncan won two MVPs, Shaq won one MVP and should have won more, and Kobe won one MVP that he didn't even deserve.

3. Shaq and Duncan were both clearly the best players in the league for a short period of time, while Kobe was never the best player in the league at any give time.

4. Shaq and Duncan's advanced stats are superior in every way.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 06:56 PM
he will def be in my top 10 when its over. top 6-7 to be exact.

I respect that

dh144498
11-01-2012, 06:57 PM
1. This is the dumbest post I have ever seen. All players copycat ALL of them from there friends, there peers, oldera guys, players they see in tv. It's all copied. Even Jordan copycated DR.J so ****ing what.......


2. Wouldn't a scoring scottie pippen be the greatest 2 way player in history? Lol

i like how he just posted a picture of kobe and jordan doing the same stance and he's like "KOBE IS A COPYCAT." lol

Dade County
11-01-2012, 06:58 PM
You think Wade will end up top 10?



Yes, I know. Wade has to win atleast 2-3 more titles with a FMVP to get on the same bar with Kobe. And if that happens then Wade is top 10 all-time.

You said it, and that's exactly how I feel... It's going to be hard for Wade because Lbj, seems like he will take them all (Finals MVP). (and I hope you mean by same bar as Kobe, you are saying Kobe entire career, because Wade is a better player then Kobe right now (because of kobe age)).

Wade might of lost his chance, when Lbj was following orders in the HEAT vs Dallas finals. Wade should have said, F this **** and took over the series, but he didn't, and that might cost him, the title, 2nd best sg ever.

Could you imagine if Wade would have single handily won that series, like he did in 06 ( ****!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

But I know NBA = Entertainment, so what can you do about it.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 06:58 PM
he bounces around 7-9 for me personally. Today, I will say 8th haha.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 07:00 PM
1. Shaq won three titles as the alpha dog with Kobe as his sidekick (and one as Wade's sidekick). Duncan won four titles as the alpha dog with an inferior supporting cast compared to what Kobe won with his two alpha titles with.

2. Duncan won two MVPs, Shaq won one MVP and should have won more, and Kobe won one MVP that he didn't even deserve.

3. Shaq and Duncan were both clearly the best players in the league for a short period of time, while Kobe was never the best player in the league at any give time.

4. Shaq and Duncan's advanced stats are superior in every way.

So Duncan deserved more mvp's but yet Kobe Didn't deserve his? Stop showing your bias dude...

Advanced stats this advanced stats that ofcourse they are gonna be superior they are big men lol your logic is flawed is that the best you can come up with dude? Advanced stats are wack

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 07:00 PM
Yes, I know. Wade has to win atleast 2-3 more titles with a FMVP to get on the same bar with Kobe. And if that happens then Wade is top 10 all-time.

I don't think Wade has any shot at top 10. His body won't hold up long enough for his statistics to keep pace.

dh144498
11-01-2012, 07:00 PM
1. Shaq won three titles as the alpha dog with Kobe as his sidekick (and one as Wade's sidekick). Duncan won four titles as the alpha dog with an inferior supporting cast compared to what Kobe won with his two alpha titles with.

2. Duncan won two MVPs, Shaq won one MVP and should have won more, and Kobe won one MVP that he didn't even deserve.

3. Shaq and Duncan were both clearly the best players in the league for a short period of time, while Kobe was never the best player in the league at any give time.

4. Shaq and Duncan's advanced stats are superior in every way.

for a good amount of time i thought u were a decent poster with good thoughts, but i was wrong. Those things are what all the extreme KB haters say.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 07:00 PM
Top 5 in scoring
10+ all NBA teams
10+ all defense teams
MVP(should have more)
14x all-star and counting
5 time NBA champion
2x finals MVP
Multiple records broken I can go on and on

And without shaq I believe his averages are something like 27-28 ppg 6 reb 5 ast

Name me 5 let alone 10 players with a better career and resume, you just can't
Career achievements should not be the main basis for your argument. Longevity is important, but it shouldn't be as important as your dominance while you played the game and your statistical production. And his career achievements, while impressive, are not nearly as sexy when you consider he won three titles as a sidekick compared to guys like MJ, Russell, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, Kareem, Magic, etc. who won all or most of their titles as the alpha dog. Also, he did not deserve his MVP, and I will gladly provide background for that if you'd like.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 07:01 PM
So Duncan deserved more mvp's but yet Kobe Didn't deserve his? Stop showing your bias dude...

Advanced stats this advanced stats that ofcourse they are gonna be superior they are big men lol your logic is flawed is that the best you can come up with dude? Advanced stats are wack

98% of people who are against advanced numbers are fans of one of the following players:

Kobe
Iverson
Melo
Rondo

Your eyes don't see everything man. Stats are there to catch what our biased eyes missed.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 07:02 PM
Career achievements should not be the main basis for your argument. Longevity is important, but it shouldn't be as important as your dominance while you played the game and your statistical production. And his career achievements, while impressive, are not nearly as sexy when you consider he won three titles as a sidekick compared to guys like MJ, Russell, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, Kareem, Magic, etc. who won all or most of their titles as the alpha dog. Also, he did not deserve his MVP, and I will gladly provide background for that if you'd like.

Its the only reason I have Kobe top 10. His numbers, per year, don't merit him being with the others if we are talking single season type dominance. But the fact that he was a top 4 player in the NBA for 13-14 years is incredible.

jayjay33
11-01-2012, 07:03 PM
This thread makes no sense. Jerry west is not even close to Kobe. This is a who do you this was more superior to there peers thing. Not a who do you think the best players are. An it flip flops depending on who your talking about. Some time it's just flat out who was better. Then other times it's who had a better career. Then other times it's who was more superior in there repeative era's. It makes no sense.


I have Kobe as one of the five "best" bball players I have ever seen.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 07:04 PM
So Duncan deserved more mvp's but yet Kobe Didn't deserve his?
Actually, I think what I said is that Shaq deserved MVPs and Kobe didn't deserve his. But yeah, I could make a case for Duncan, too. Kobe was NEVER the best player in the NBA at any give time.


Advanced stats this advanced stats that ofcourse they are gonna be superior they are big men lol your logic is flawed is that the best you can come up with dude? Advanced stats are wack
Great point. That's why big men clearly dominate the top of the all-time PER leaderboards, right? Oh wait.... They don't. At all. The top two guys are Michael Jordan and Lebron James and Wade and Paul are sixth and seventh. So that kinda damages your logic a bit.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 07:11 PM
Career achievements should not be the main basis for your argument. Longevity is important, but it shouldn't be as important as your dominance while you played the game and your statistical production. And his career achievements, while impressive, are not nearly as sexy when you consider he won three titles as a sidekick compared to guys like MJ, Russell, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, Kareem, Magic, etc. who won all or most of their titles as the alpha dog. Also, he did not deserve his MVP, and I will gladly provide background for that if you'd like.

My Oh my MJ was the man but those teams were stacked Duncan didn't win the MVP for his last title and I don't see him being discredited for being Parker's sidekick Kareem and magic won about half of the finals MVP's magic 3 Kareem 2 I believe 1 was worthy bird had a **** load of talent on his team and only won 3 titles you can go on and on its not gonna work especially when you are being biased about it! Kobe not only deserve that MVP (it was close though) but he should have won more!

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 07:19 PM
for a good amount of time i thought u were a decent poster with good thoughts, but i was wrong. Those things are what all the extreme KB haters say.

Lol. So I'm a Kobe hater even though I think he's the 10th greatest player in the history of the NBA? Here are some facts for you, sir....

1. Tim Duncan was top five in PER eight times and top five in WS/48 five times. Shaq was top five in PER 11 times and top five in WS/48 five times. Kobe was top five in PER five times and top five in WS/48 one time.

2. Tim Duncan led the league in win shares twice and was in the top four six other times. Shaq led the league in win shares twice and was top four four other tiems. Kobe never led the league in win shares and was top four three times.

3. In Kobe's MVP season, he was 2nd in PPG, 19th in APG, 9th in SPG, 8th in PER, fourth in win shares and 8th in WS/48.

Chris Paul was 19th in PPG, 1st in APG, 1st in SPG, 2nd in PER, 1st in AST%, 1st in STL%, first in win shares and first in WS/48.

Lebron James was 1st in PPG, 8th in APG, 10th in SPG, 1st in PER, 7th in AST%, 2nd in win shares and 5th in WS/48.

And yet Kobe won that award.....

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 07:20 PM
Kobe not only deserve that MVP (it was close though) but he should have won more!
Look at my above numbers that I just posted and tell me why Kobe deserved that MVP instead of Lebron and Paul, whose numbers are CLEARLY superior.

Edit: AND it's worth mentioning that while LA did have the best record in the West, Boston was easily the best team in basketball that year thanks to the acquisition of Allen and KG. So if they had gone with the "best player on the best team" argument, it clearly should have gone to Garnett, who also won DPOY, was second in DWS, first in DRtg and second in WS/48. Their team also beat the Lakers in the Finals.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 07:28 PM
Lol. So I'm a Kobe hater even though I think he's the 10th greatest player in the history of the NBA? Here are some facts for you, sir....

1. Tim Duncan was top five in PER eight times and top five in WS/48 five times. Shaq was top five in PER 11 times and top five in WS/48 five times. Kobe was top five in PER five times and top five in WS/48 one time.

2. Tim Duncan led the league in win shares twice and was in the top four six other times. Shaq led the league in win shares twice and was top four four other tiems. Kobe never led the league in win shares and was top four three times.

3. In Kobe's MVP season, he was 2nd in PPG, 19th in APG, 9th in SPG, 8th in PER, fourth in win shares and 8th in WS/48.

Chris Paul was 19th in PPG, 1st in APG, 1st in SPG, 2nd in PER, 1st in AST%, 1st in STL%, first in win shares and first in WS/48.

Lebron James was 1st in PPG, 8th in APG, 10th in SPG, 1st in PER, 7th in AST%, 2nd in win shares and 5th in WS/48.

And yet Kobe won that award.....


You base your logic on a whole bunch of crap that MVP voters don't take to much stock into Kobe's raw stats meaning ppg-ast-reb were better then cp3's and the lakers finished with the better record what more do u want?

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 07:35 PM
Lol. So I'm a Kobe hater even though I think he's the 10th greatest player in the history of the NBA? Here are some facts for you, sir....

1. Tim Duncan was top five in PER eight times and top five in WS/48 five times. Shaq was top five in PER 11 times and top five in WS/48 five times. Kobe was top five in PER five times and top five in WS/48 one time.

2. Tim Duncan led the league in win shares twice and was in the top four six other times. Shaq led the league in win shares twice and was top four four other tiems. Kobe never led the league in win shares and was top four three times.

3. In Kobe's MVP season, he was 2nd in PPG, 19th in APG, 9th in SPG, 8th in PER, fourth in win shares and 8th in WS/48.

Chris Paul was 19th in PPG, 1st in APG, 1st in SPG, 2nd in PER, 1st in AST%, 1st in STL%, first in win shares and first in WS/48.

Lebron James was 1st in PPG, 8th in APG, 10th in SPG, 1st in PER, 7th in AST%, 2nd in win shares and 5th in WS/48.

And yet Kobe won that award.....

I always thought CP3 got robbed that year, personally. Felt Bryant was robbed in 05/06 and 06/07 though.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 07:42 PM
You base your logic on a whole bunch of crap that MVP voters don't take to much stock into Kobe's raw stats meaning ppg-ast-reb were better then cp3's and the lakers finished with the better record what more do u want?

His basic numbers WEREN'T better than Paul's, IMO.
Paul: 21.1/11.6/4.0/2.7 on .488/.369/.851 shooting percentages
Kobe: 28.3/5.4/6.3/1.8 on .459/.361/.840 shooting percentages
Lebron: 30.0/7.2/7.9/1.8 on .484/.315/.712 shooting percentages

As for "finishing with a better record" argument, his Lakers beat Paul's Hornets for the No. 1 seed by a single game. Now, compare their supporting casts for me and tell me who had more help:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2008.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/2008.html

And as I've already stated, if it was going to go to the best player on the best team, it should have gone to Garnett, who also had a better season than Kobe on a number of different statistical categories. Bottom line, there were four decent arguments for who could have won it that season, but Kobe's was the weakest. He got the award not because he was the best player or had the best case, but because he had never won before. It's like when the Academy Awards voters give an Oscar to someone who could have won one years ago just because there isn't a clear cut winner and it makes them look nice. I wouldn't be shocked to see Chris Paul or Dwight Howard win one for that exact same reason three or four years down the road.

JasonJohnHorn
11-01-2012, 07:55 PM
Is there serioulsy two people who think Kobe is the greatest of all time? SMH

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 07:56 PM
Is there serioulsy two people who think Kobe is the greatest of all time? SMH

you need to make the voting public, so we can see who voted for which #.

P Harvy
11-01-2012, 08:04 PM
31-50 seemed about right here.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 08:05 PM
31-50 seemed about right here.

I can't figure out which is worse, ranking him #1, or 31-50...

Even the biggest Kobe hater on the planet would have to agree top 12.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 08:06 PM
Is there serioulsy two people who think Kobe is the greatest of all time? SMH

Not even i would vote Kobe #1 I have him #5 with the possibility of him moving all the way to #3 when he's done but that's just my opinion

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 08:10 PM
Not even i would vote Kobe #1 I have him #5 with the possibility of him moving all the way to #3 when he's done but that's just my opinion

Let me ask you this, because you're clearly a Kobe fan. If Lebron James continues on his current path and wins maybe 3 championships in total while surpassing Kobe in career achievements and winning one or two more MVPs, will you still think Kobe has had the better career?

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 08:10 PM
Not even i would vote Kobe #1 I have him #5 with the possibility of him moving all the way to #3 when he's done but that's just my opinion

I have him anywhere from 7-9, depending on my mood I suppose. I don't think he can move up from 7. Too much mileage, and anything that comes now, winning wise, he is not going to be his teams best player anymore.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 08:11 PM
Let me ask you this, because you're clearly a Kobe fan. If Lebron James continues on his current path and wins maybe 3 championships in total while surpassing Kobe in career achievements and winning one or two more MVPs, will you still think Kobe has had the better career?

Barring an injury, I don't think there is any way LeBron doesn't leap frog Kobe.

theheatles
11-01-2012, 08:14 PM
the people that voted 1,2 and 31-50 should all get banned

P Harvy
11-01-2012, 08:16 PM
I can't figure out which is worse, ranking him #1, or 31-50...

Even the biggest Kobe hater on the planet would have to agree top 12.

Haha realistically I'd have to go around 10.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 09:05 PM
Let me ask you this, because you're clearly a Kobe fan. If Lebron James continues on his current path and wins maybe 3 championships in total while surpassing Kobe in career achievements and winning one or two more MVPs, will you still think Kobe has had the better career?

It depends 3 championships would get him close and if it were a tie I would still rank Kobe higher because I'm biased mvp's will help Lebron out alot though so ehh idk don't ask me that haha, put it this way all of the analyst in today's NBA measure the all-time greats by how much they won and if lebrons ends up with 3 and Kobe 5 possibly more then its still Kobe according to the medias logic)
If only Kobe Didnt have shaq I wonder what his stats would have really been

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-01-2012, 09:07 PM
Who are the 2 Heat fans that voted Black Mamba b/w 31-50. :laugh2:

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-01-2012, 09:08 PM
1. Airness
2. Captain
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Diesel
8. Mamba
9. Fundamental
10. Dream

kobebabe
11-01-2012, 09:09 PM
around 7-9

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-01-2012, 09:09 PM
The 2 posters that voted Kobe #1 should be slapped right now! :punish:

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 10:01 PM
It depends 3 championships would get him close and if it were a tie I would still rank Kobe higher because I'm biased mvp's will help Lebron out alot though so ehh idk don't ask me that haha, put it this way all of the analyst in today's NBA measure the all-time greats by how much they won and if lebrons ends up with 3 and Kobe 5 possibly more then its still Kobe according to the medias logic)
If only Kobe Didnt have shaq I wonder what his stats would have really been

But Lebron will dominate Kobe in MVPs, individual stats and career numbers. And Kobe would have two titles as an alpha dog and three as a sidekick compared to three for Lebron as an alpha dog. I don't know how anyone could honestly put Kobe ahead of Lebron in this scenario. Titles alone do not make a player's career, and I think Kobe fans overlook this far too much.

Bos_Sports4Life
11-01-2012, 10:17 PM
I value peak over longevity in most cases..so that hurts him some in my ranking..

MJ, Russell, Kareem, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Wilt are all ahead of him imo. So I'd have him as 10th.

The only play from this era that I see leapfrogging Kobe is Lebron, So soon he'll be 11th imo..

I just love when Kobe homers call me a "hater" when in reality I have 4 lakers in my all time top 10 :laugh:

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 10:30 PM
I value peak over longevity in most cases..so that hurts him some in my ranking..

MJ, Russell, Kareem, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Wilt are all ahead of him imo. So I'd have him as 10th.
This. I completely agree with this group of players, although we might differ on the order.


The only play from this era that I see leapfrogging Kobe is Lebron, So soon he'll be 11th imo..
I agree that Lebron will jump Kobe, but I'm not ready to say that he's the only player from this era who's got a shot. Durant has done remarkable things for a player his age and there are other young guys in this league who could be future Hall of Famer players and haven't even touched their potential yet. Chris Paul and Dwight Howard are two players that I think have been better than Kobe for several years, but they don't have the hardware to put them anywhere close to this discussion yet. Wade had a shot prior to joining Lebron, but I don't think he'll come close either.

Chronz
11-01-2012, 10:38 PM
1. Airness
2. Captain
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Diesel
8. Mamba
9. Fundamental
10. Dream

You dont know all their nicknames? What a loser

Chronz
11-01-2012, 10:42 PM
His basic numbers WEREN'T better than Paul's, IMO.
Paul: 21.1/11.6/4.0/2.7 on .488/.369/.851 shooting percentages
Kobe: 28.3/5.4/6.3/1.8 on .459/.361/.840 shooting percentages
Lebron: 30.0/7.2/7.9/1.8 on .484/.315/.712 shooting percentages

As for "finishing with a better record" argument, his Lakers beat Paul's Hornets for the No. 1 seed by a single game. Now, compare their supporting casts for me and tell me who had more help:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2008.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/2008.html

And as I've already stated, if it was going to go to the best player on the best team, it should have gone to Garnett, who also had a better season than Kobe on a number of different statistical categories. Bottom line, there were four decent arguments for who could have won it that season, but Kobe's was the weakest. He got the award not because he was the best player or had the best case, but because he had never won before. It's like when the Academy Awards voters give an Oscar to someone who could have won one years ago just because there isn't a clear cut winner and it makes them look nice. I wouldn't be shocked to see Chris Paul or Dwight Howard win one for that exact same reason three or four years down the road.
The more I look back on that season the more I agree with this. Kobe should have zero MVP's.

Longhornfan1234
11-01-2012, 10:52 PM
8.

1. MJ

2. Wilt

3. Kareem

4. Magic

5. Russel

6. Bird

7. Shaq

8. Kobe

9. Hakeem

10. Duncan

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 11:05 PM
The more I look back on that season the more I agree with this. Kobe should have zero MVP's.

If they were going to give Kobe an honorary MVP, it should have been in 05-06. Nash already got one MVP he didn't deserve, so giving him two was completely ridiculous. Compare these player's numbers in 05-06:
Nash: 18.8/10.5/4.2 with .512/.439/.931 shooting %s, 23.3 PER, .212 WS/48
Kobe: 35.4/4.5/5.3 with .450/.347/.850 shooting %s, 28.0 PER, .224 WS/48
Dirk: 26.6/2.8/9.0 with .480/.406/.901 shooting %s, 26.8 PER, .263 WS/48
Lebron: 31.4/6.6/7.0 with .480/.335/.738 shooting %s, 28.1 PER, .232 WS/48
Wade: 27.2/6.7/5.7 with .495/.171/.783 shooting %s, 27.6 PER, .239 WS/48

How in the hell does Nash win that MVP with four players who are CLEARLY more qualified to win that award? In hindsight, I feel like this was Kobe's year. Although I think Lebron, Dirk and Wade were all slightly better, that was his "I'm gonna do everything because my team is awful and I'm Kobe ****ing Bryant" season. If he wins this award, then they could have given the 08-09 award to Paul or Garnett, who were both more deserving candidates.

This is why the MVP is a ******** award, IMO, voted on by people who are more impressed by pretty sounding stories and flashing images than actual production. If it was up to me, when there are seasons like this when there isn't one obvious MVP, I think I would take a handful of brilliant basketball minds like Simmons and let them discuss this in a room until they come up on consensus. It would be a hell of a lot better than the system in place now.

nickdymez
11-01-2012, 11:26 PM
Id say 67th

Bos_Sports4Life
11-02-2012, 12:29 AM
This. I completely agree with this group of players, although we might differ on the order.


#1/#2- MJ/Russell (I put them as interchangable)
Reason- Both have a handful of Titles (17 Combined), Both have several MVP's (5 each). Both were OBSESSED with winning and both had legendary
work ethics to boot. Neither EVER lost with HCA (Russell was injured in the finals and didn't play after game 2 I believe). Both willed teams to victory consistantly and both came up huge in the biggest of moments.
Both Players also won titles in college and have won gold, Not that really matters too everyone, But it's just something to look at.

#3- Duncan- GOAT PF, Elite on both ends, Absolutely no ego/Does not care about getting credit and being "the man" ect ect. All he wants to do is win and hes done quite a bit of it leading the spurs to there first 4 titles in franchise history.

#4- Magic- GOAT for PG's. Playoff averages of 19.5 PGG/12.3 APG/7.7 RPG is flat out remarkable. He also has versatility which is a nice bonus.

#5- Hakeem- Greatest All around C and imo won mutiple titles with the weakest roster out of anyone on this list. The fact MJ was retired means Nothing to me...Can't disscredit a player who won rings just because someone decided to leave the sport imo.

#6- Kareem- I know, This seems a bit low. However, he got dominated by other great Centers at times, Got upset in the playoffs a few times and has a lack of titles as the best player. IMO the fact he was put with oscar/magic also helped his stats..
*** Overall, I need to do more research on him to really give myself a more accurate judging on him.

#7- Shaq- Most Dominant player I have ever seen. His work ethic was relatively weak for a player his calliber and the fact he caused distractions/Ego in general lose some points with me. Overall...If he was motivated and had a great work ethic like Bird/MJ ect? No doubt he'd be 3rd on my list.

#8- Bird- Great efficiency/Great rebounder/Great passer and was clutch as heck. Great Leader/Tough ect. Only thing he is missing is longevity.

#9- Wilt- (People feel I have him VERY low but I will explain myself) With a work ethic/Drive to win? He'd be above Russell. The fact he's in my top 8 despite his mental makeup speaks volumes what I think of his complete domination on the stat sheet. However Here's a few quotes that hit me hard..

"Wilt was too consumed with records: being the first to lead the league in assists, or to set a record for field goal %. He'd accomplish one goal, than go on to another. Russell only asked one question: 'What can I do to make us win?"- Jerry Lucas

"I don't want to rap Wilt because I believe only Russell was better, and i really respect what Wilt did. But I have to say he wouldn't adjust to you, You had to adjust to him"- Jerry West

"The difference between Russell and Wilt was this: Russell would ask, 'What do I need to do to make my teammates better?' Then he'd do it. Wilt honestly thought the best way for his team to win was for him to be in the best possible setting. He'd ask, 'What's the best situation for me?' ----Butch van Breda Kollf

Now, heres 2 by Wilt himself

Wilt Chamberlain (in.Wilt): To Bill [Russell] every game一every championship game一was a challenge, a test to his manhood. He took the game so seriously that he threw up in the locker room before almost every game. But I tend to look at basketball as a game, not a life or death struggle. I dont need scoring titles or championships to prove that Im a man. There are too many other beautiful things in life一food, cars,girls, friends, the beach, freedom一to get that emotionally wrapped up in basketball. I think Bill knew I felt that way, and l think he both envied and resented my attitude. On the one hand, I think he wished he could learn to take things easier, too; on the other hand, I think he mayhave felt that with my natural ability and willingness to work hard, my teams could have won an NBA championship every year if l was as totally com-mitted to victory as he was. . .. I wish I had won all those championships,but I really think I grew more as a man in defeat than Russell did in vic-tory.

"In a way, I like it better when we lose. Its over and I can look forward to the next game. If we win, it builds up the tension and I start worrying about the next game.- Wilt Chamberlain

Conclusion- Not a good leader, Put himself over his teammates, Winning wasn't his sole focus ect ect. Now, He's still in my top 10 despite those flawes because of 2 reasons

1. Stats matter to a degree And he dominated that aspect.
2. Later in his career he seemed more willing to play a "russell role"

Now, I believe in the saying "Wilt could have played a russell role but russell couldn't have played a wilt type role", Fact is however..He refused to do that a good chunk of his career.

#10- Kobe- IMO he gets overrated a bit due to his style being simmilar to MJ. No way he's top 5 imo. Longevity/fact he has 5 titles is deff enough for me to put him top 10. However, I think he has glaring flaws

* Ego- the fact he pushed a top 10 player of all time out of town matters imo

* Forces up shots late in games/ISO's and overall not efficient during those moments (Final couple min)

* He seems to care about winning "as the man" as much as winning itself

Now, I get called a hater by laker fans since I have Wilt/Kareem ranked a bit lower than Most. However, Im pretty consistant with what I believe in. Also, I have Magic in my top 5 and bird behind Shaq/Magic.

- I value players who are commited to winning/Great work ethic/Leadership/Playes well with others ect..These things should count.

- I value Peak a bit more than Longevity

Hawkeye15
11-02-2012, 04:51 AM
The more I look back on that season the more I agree with this. Kobe should have zero MVP's.

He really should. Can you point to a single season where Kobe was the best player in the NBA? His longevity is why he is on the all time list.

meadowlarklemon
11-02-2012, 04:52 AM
who cares?

PhillyFaninLA
11-02-2012, 05:59 AM
I would put him around 20 or so because he is no better then the 3rd or 4th and maybe even 5th best player in his franchises history. That being the case I cannot put him in the top 10.

thenaj17
11-02-2012, 06:40 AM
He really should. Can you point to a single season where Kobe was the best player in the NBA? His longevity is why he is on the all time list.

Can you point to a season where Derek Rose was the best, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki? Because i can't..

MVP doesn't mean best player for 1 and secondly Kobe definitely was the consensus best player in the league for several years.

And don't give me that crap about best stats for a season, PER, Win shares etc... both poor indications of the impact a player has.

basketfan4life
11-02-2012, 07:15 AM
1-MJ
2-Kareem
3-Magic
4-Wilt
5-Shaq
6-Russel
7-Kobe
8-Larry
9-Duncan
10-Hakeem...

But 7 to 10 is very debatable for every name on the list. So i can't say a single word to people who ranks Kobe 7 to 10.

todu82
11-02-2012, 10:12 AM
At #8 all-time. Behind Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Russell, Bird and Shaq.

dh144498
11-02-2012, 10:18 AM
He really should. Can you point to a single season where Kobe was the best player in the NBA? His longevity is why he is on the all time list.

when did MVP imply the best player in the league?

Gram
11-02-2012, 10:43 AM
He really should. Can you point to a single season where Kobe was the best player in the NBA? His longevity is why he is on the all time list.

Never knew the V in MVP stood for best. :shrug:

mightybosstone
11-02-2012, 11:29 AM
He really should. Can you point to a single season where Kobe was the best player in the NBA? His longevity is why he is on the all time list.

I'm requoting this post that was on the last page. I don't necessarily think Kobe was ever the clear cut best player in the NBA, but he certainly didn't deserve the 07-08 MVP. If anything, he should have gotten it in 05-06.


If they were going to give Kobe an honorary MVP, it should have been in 05-06. Nash already got one MVP he didn't deserve, so giving him two was completely ridiculous. Compare these player's numbers in 05-06:
Nash: 18.8/10.5/4.2 with .512/.439/.931 shooting %s, 23.3 PER, .212 WS/48
Kobe: 35.4/4.5/5.3 with .450/.347/.850 shooting %s, 28.0 PER, .224 WS/48
Dirk: 26.6/2.8/9.0 with .480/.406/.901 shooting %s, 26.8 PER, .263 WS/48
Lebron: 31.4/6.6/7.0 with .480/.335/.738 shooting %s, 28.1 PER, .232 WS/48
Wade: 27.2/6.7/5.7 with .495/.171/.783 shooting %s, 27.6 PER, .239 WS/48

How in the hell does Nash win that MVP with four players who are CLEARLY more qualified to win that award? In hindsight, I feel like this was Kobe's year. Although I think Lebron, Dirk and Wade were all slightly better, that was his "I'm gonna do everything because my team is awful and I'm Kobe ****ing Bryant" season. If he wins this award, then they could have given the 07-08 award to Paul or Garnett, who were both more deserving candidates.

This is why the MVP is a ******** award, IMO, voted on by people who are more impressed by pretty sounding stories and flashing images than actual production. If it was up to me, when there are seasons like this when there isn't one obvious MVP, I think I would take a handful of brilliant basketball minds like Simmons and let them discuss this in a room until they come up on consensus. It would be a hell of a lot better than the system in place now.

mightybosstone
11-02-2012, 11:32 AM
Never knew the V in MVP stood for best. :shrug:

Well, he wasn't the most "valuable" player in 07-08 either. Paul had an inferior team with almost no help at only one game behind Kobe's Lakers in the 07-08 season and Paul's numbers were superior. And Garnett's numbers were also better, as his defense helped transform the Celtics into by far the best team in the NBA.

By whatever criteria you use to determine the MVP, Kobe Bryant isn't the MVP of any of them. He was the No. 3 guy at best, and I would argue the No. 4 behind Lebron that season.

KnicksorBust
11-02-2012, 11:32 AM
4th

mightybosstone
11-02-2012, 12:04 PM
4th

Who do you have ahead of him?

Lakers4life08
11-02-2012, 12:47 PM
Second after GOAT AKA 'God Chosen one' Scalabrine