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View Full Version : How much do the Steves hurt the Lakers defensively?



mrblisterdundee
11-01-2012, 03:47 PM
If there's one glaring weakness with the Lakers, it has to be their point guards on defense. We saw it last night, as neither of the Steves could at all handle Damian Lillard.
Will this be a recurring theme, where top-flight point guards have great games against the Lakers?
It almost seems as if the Lakers would have been better off grabbing Kyle Lowry instead of trading for Nash.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 03:49 PM
yes, it has been for a few years now. That being said, IF Nash is used right offensively, it offsets the one sided beating their PG's have taken the past 2 seasons.

P Harvy
11-01-2012, 03:50 PM
Let's just say that Russell Westbrook is licking his chops when he knows a Lakers game is coming up.

NYKnickFanatic
11-01-2012, 03:51 PM
Fire Brown, bring in D'Antoni. Offensive problem solved.

Slug3
11-01-2012, 03:52 PM
It could get their bigs in foul trouble if they keep getting blown past by quicker PGs.

mrblisterdundee
11-01-2012, 03:54 PM
yes, it has been for a few years now. That being said, IF Nash is used right offensively, it offsets the one sided beating their PG's have taken the past 2 seasons.

Good point, but do you think the Lakers are young and quick enough to take full advantage of Steve Nash's fast, free-flowing offense? I don't remember the Lakers ever winning any Championships playing that way.
On a slightly related note, when will they fire Mike Brown? I'm sick of these mediocre coaches like him and Erik Spoelstra getting to run contenders. I'm sure Flip Saunders would take the job.

KB-Pau-DH2012
11-01-2012, 03:56 PM
Let's just say that Russell Westbrook is licking his chops when he knows a Lakers game is coming up.

He's also licking his chops because with Harden gone, he gets more shots and more of the credit for team success.. :)

aiizer
11-01-2012, 04:00 PM
When's the last time the Lakers had a good defensive point guard?


So, yeah they've proven they can win without one.

Dumb thread.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 04:02 PM
Good point, but do you think the Lakers are young and quick enough to take full advantage of Steve Nash's fast, free-flowing offense? I don't remember the Lakers ever winning any Championships playing that way.
On a slightly related note, when will they fire Mike Brown? I'm sick of these mediocre coaches like him and Erik Spoelstra getting to run contenders. I'm sure Flip Saunders would take the job.

Dwight can run the floor with anyone. It doesn't necessarily mean that they have to run the break constantly, I wouldn't with that crap bench, but why on earth would you take the ball out of Nash's hands? Run a ton more PnR, and stop with this princeton offense crap. You don't have the players to run it Mike.

I hope they keep Brown forever. I think he is one of the bottom 3 offensive coaches in the NBA, and I for one am fine with the Lakers struggling.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 04:04 PM
When's the last time the Lakers had a good defensive point guard?


So, yeah they've proven they can win without one.

Dumb thread.

changing landscape though. Fisher used to be a very good defensive PG, but over the past couple of seasons, the Lakers get torched by strong PG's. Again, all it would take is Brown using Nash's offensive strengths, which would simply offset what the other teams PG is doing to them. If they continue to make Nash a bystander, PG's will kill them yet again.

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-01-2012, 04:05 PM
Nash is so underrated the only reason he's seen as a bad defender is because he's to small to really contest a players shot but what I've seen from his time with the lakers is he's always with his man and always gets a hand up he occasionally gets blown by but not as often as fisher or other laker pg's from the past

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 04:09 PM
Oh snap, i see what u did thurrr

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 04:10 PM
Nash is so underrated the only reason he's seen as a bad defender is because he's to small to really contest a players shot but what I've seen from his time with the lakers is he's always with his man and always gets a hand up he occasionally gets blown by but not as often as fisher or other laker pg's from the past

.... not sure if serious, or trolling :(

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 04:10 PM
Nash is so underrated the only reason he's seen as a bad defender is because he's to small to really contest a players shot but what I've seen from his time with the lakers is he's always with his man and always gets a hand up he occasionally gets blown by but not as often as fisher or other laker pg's from the past

Fisher was an excellent defender until around 3-4 years ago. Nash used to take a bunch of charges, but outside that, he is a minus defender. Phoenix many times put him on the weaker guard at all times to keep him from being exposed.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 04:11 PM
He's also licking his chops because with Harden gone, he gets more shots and more of the credit for team success.. :)

idk about that.. k-mart isnt too shy at shooting.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 04:11 PM
His offense should offset the defensive woes, but with Mike Brown as coach I won't hold my breath on that one.

Swashcuff
11-01-2012, 04:13 PM
Wait isn't there this guy called Dwight Howard in the paint? The same Dwight Howard that anchored one of the leagues most consistent defenses of the last 5+ years with JAMEER NELSON at the PG. The Lakers will be fine. They have bigger problems than their PG defense.

Munkeysuit
11-01-2012, 04:16 PM
Nash has never been a great defender ever! so I am sure the Lakers organization didn't sign him to bolster their back court. Blake is an ok defender, but tries too hard to do the right thing, it's like sometimes he forgets he can shoot!
I can see Nash coming around in a few games, I am sure he thought he was guna come to LA and get like 20 assists a game, but I think he's trying too hard not to screw it up, that he forgets about his abilities, he needs to put some pressure on the D and run more pick n rolls with Howard...they would be virtually unstoppable!

PG - NASH
SG - KOBE
SF - EBANKS
PF - METTA
C - HOWARD

PG - BLAKE
SG - MEEKS
SF - JAMISON
PF - PAU
C - HILL

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 04:22 PM
Wait isn't there this guy called Dwight Howard in the paint? The same Dwight Howard that anchored one of the leagues most consistent defenses of the last 5+ years with JAMEER NELSON at the PG. The Lakers will be fine. They have bigger problems than their PG defense.

are you trying to say Nash is a better defender than Nelson, they also had courtney lee during that championship run, and most recently agent 0/duhon/wafer.

because you cannot compare both teams at all. blake/nash dont compare between any of those combo at guards defensively imo, so this is a little different.

however I do agree with you on the notion that the Lakers will be fine after Mike Brown tweaks a few things.

imo offense looks just fine, its their defense.
antwan, meeks, blake, nash just don't scream out defense to me sorry.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 04:22 PM
Wait isn't there this guy called Dwight Howard in the paint? The same Dwight Howard that anchored one of the leagues most consistent defenses of the last 5+ years with JAMEER NELSON at the PG. The Lakers will be fine. They have bigger problems than their PG defense.

Agreed, their biggest issues are Mike Brown's offense and his rotations.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 04:23 PM
are you trying to say Nash is a better defender than Nelson, they also had courtney lee during that championship run, and most recently agent 0/duhon/wafer.

because you cannot compare both teams at all. blake/nash dont compare between any of those combo at guards defensively imo, so this is a little different.

however I do agree with you on the notion that the Lakers will be fine after Mike Brown tweaks a few things.

imo offense looks just fine, its their defense.
antwan, meeks, blake, nash just don't scream out defense to me sorry.

Don't forget turnovers :pity:

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 04:27 PM
Don't forget turnovers :pity:

ahh true true.

im sure they wouldnt matter until they tweak a few things on defense.

btw any news on nashs injury? is he good enough to play on friday?

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 04:29 PM
ahh true true.

im sure they wouldnt matter until they tweak a few things on defense.

btw any news on nashs injury? is he good enough to play on friday?

Haha i'm actually not sure, haven't even checked yet. I hope he is, but if he's not just rest up it's gonna be a long season.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 04:31 PM
ehh lakers will be fine. a 3 way fight between spurs, lakers and okc imo.

unless the clippers somehow prove me wrong, which i doubt.

whitemamba33
11-01-2012, 04:31 PM
The length of the front court combined with a smoother offense is going to patch their defensive hole at the pg position. This is something that is going to take both time and practice, but I believe they will get there.

Swashcuff
11-01-2012, 04:35 PM
are you trying to say Nash is a better defender than Nelson, they also had courtney lee during that championship run, and most recently agent 0/duhon/wafer.

How do you guys read these things out of what I say. In no part of my post did I allude anything of the sort. Nelson is not known for his D and as a matter of a fact he's one of the worse defensive PGs in the league. That's all I am saying however that didn't hamper the Magic from being one of the best defensive teams.


because you cannot compare both teams at all. blake/nash dont compare between any of those combo at guards defensively imo, so this is a little different.

:confused:

My point is the PG is possibly the least impactful/important position as far as team D is concerned and once Dwight is standing in the middle their D isn't going to be THAT big of a concern. As much as Westbrook will lick his chops when he sees Nash and Blake when he sees Dwight standing in the middle waiting he's going to want to perfect that pull up jumper.


however I do agree with you on the notion that the Lakers will be fine after Mike Brown tweaks a few things.

imo offense looks just fine, its their defense.
antwan, meeks, blake, nash just don't scream out defense to me sorry.

All you need on D is Dwight Howard. Once he's able to defend within the rules of the game and stay out of foul trouble they just need to adjust to suit him. The Orlando Magic D was just the sort, they had extremely poor defensive players who couldn't stay infront their man for jack but what they were taught was to take their man into the path of Dwight Howard and let him do the dirty work. It worked for the Magic I'm sure that Mike Brown will sort that out.

Chronz
11-01-2012, 04:40 PM
He's also licking his chops because with Harden gone, he gets more shots and more of the credit for team success.. :)

I think he will miss Harden, its not like Westbrook was holding back because of him, he was basically using him as a big decoy and chucking to his hearts content regardless.

DanG
11-01-2012, 04:40 PM
ehh lakers will be fine. a 3 way fight between spurs, lakers and okc imo.

unless the clippers somehow prove me wrong, which i doubt.

Yup. Friday's game will be interesting, I think Nash will play.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 04:41 PM
How do you guys read these things out of what I say. In no part of my post did I allude anything of the sort. Nelson is not known for his D and as a matter of a fact he's one of the worse defensive PGs in the league. That's all I am saying however that didn't hamper the Magic from being one of the best defensive teams.


Yikes, calm down, I was just curious as to why you would compare the two teams when their backups were pretty ok on defense.
I'm on the same page as you on most things tho. :)



:confused:

My point is the PG is possibly the least impactful/important position as far as team D is concerned and once Dwight is standing in the middle their D isn't going to be THAT big of a concern. As much as Westbrook will lick his chops when he sees Nash and Blake when he sees Dwight standing in the middle waiting he's going to want to perfect that pull up jumper.

true, i guess he is going to have to do that "safety" thing on defense that kg used to do against the heat.
however when metta and kobe get their break, they better leave howard in and hope he plays phenomenal defense because they are terrible on defense.
imagine a rotation of
blake/nash
meeks
antwan
gasol
d12

omg.. thats just terrible on defense.



All you need on D is Dwight Howard. Once he's able to defend within the rules of the game and stay out of foul trouble they just need to adjust to suit him. The Orlando Magic D was just the sort, they had extremely poor defensive players who couldn't stay infront their man for jack but what they were taught was to take their man into the path of Dwight Howard and let him do the dirty work. It worked for the Magic I'm sure that Mike Brown will sort that out.

this is where i disagree, i dont think the orlando magic d is as bad as the lakers d is. howard def helps without a doubt, but i feel for the lakers he will have to do more.. i guess time will tell of course.

Chronz
11-01-2012, 04:46 PM
Kind of hard to tell when one of them is always out there but if they dont improve I think its fair to say quite a great deal.

Swashcuff
11-01-2012, 04:48 PM
Yikes, calm down, I was just curious as to why you would compare the two teams when their backups were pretty ok on defense.
I'm on the same page as you on most things tho. :)

I just shout a lot :p :laugh2:


true, i guess he is going to have to do that "safety" thing on defense that kg used to do against the heat.
however when metta and kobe get their break, they better leave howard in and hope he plays phenomenal defense because they are terrible on defense.
imagine a rotation of
blake/nash
meeks
antwan
gasol
d12

omg.. thats just terrible on defense.

Gasol and Howard are above average on D and Meeks is about par (watched him play almost his entire career and his stats back him up).


this is where i disagree, i dont think the orlando magic d is as bad as the lakers d is. howard def helps without a doubt, but i feel for the lakers he will have to do more.. i guess time will tell of course.

Kobe, Gasol, Artest and Jordan Hill are all above average defensive players. Compare that to Dwight's casts in Orlando and tell me which year he had better defensive support than he does now.

Quinnsanity
11-01-2012, 04:51 PM
That's why I've been saying OKC is still the western favorite. Russell Westbrook is going to **** on them.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 05:08 PM
I just shout a lot :p :laugh2:



haha no worries man.



Gasol and Howard are above average on D and Meeks is about par (watched him play almost his entire career and his stats back him up).


i was always under the assumption that gasol is average on D.. if he's above average than nvm.. but imagine with antwan, blake, meeks in.. the lakers bigs would have their work cut out for them. whew!


Kobe, Gasol, Artest and Jordan Hill are all above average defensive players. Compare that to Dwight's casts in Orlando and tell me which year he had better defensive support than he does now.

wouldn't you say that kobe's defense has digressed a little, along with artests?
i mean im sure they would lock down average players, but elite players like a wade, james harden, ginobli (for kobe) and a lbj, durant (for ron).. i feel their defense would get exposed against the elite teams, i could be wrong, but oh well time will tell of course.

Swashcuff
11-01-2012, 09:10 PM
i was always under the assumption that gasol is average on D.. if he's above average than nvm.. but imagine with antwan, blake, meeks in.. the lakers bigs would have their work cut out for them. whew!

IMO as of last season it was above average by a hair. We shall see how much if at all that will change this season but I think the knocks he received on the defensive end were unfair.



wouldn't you say that kobe's defense has digressed a little, along with artests?

Yup quite a bit neither is anything near a lockdown defensive player but they still understand the fundamentals of playing D and can be quite valuable in that regard.


i mean im sure they would lock down average players, but elite players like a wade, james harden, ginobli (for kobe) and a lbj, durant (for ron).. i feel their defense would get exposed against the elite teams, i could be wrong, but oh well time will tell of course.

Indeed. I can be dead wrong myself as well only time will tell though.

popo85
11-01-2012, 09:39 PM
Ever since Ron Harper retired the Lakers have had the worse defenders at PG. Payton was passed his prime by 04' or else that would of been a different story. Fisher minus the flopping charges he took was a horrendous 1 on 1 defender he made Bibby and Brooks look like all stars, Smush and Atkins were pure thrash. Farmar had lapses on defense but did do a better job vs the faster pgs, Nash plays matador defense.

Supreme LA
11-01-2012, 09:51 PM
Let's just say that Russell Westbrook is licking his chops when he knows a Lakers game is coming up.

^Shows how much you watch basketball :eyebrow:

Kobe guards Westbrook.