PDA

View Full Version : Best Point Guard in the NBA



Pages : [1] 2

AndyfromNeptune
11-01-2012, 01:01 PM
By the end of the 2013 season, who do you think will be the best point guard in the NBA?

Quote me on this; it will be Kyrie Irving.

What do you think? Will he be the best? Top 3? Top 5? Top 10?

If not him, who will be the best?

ewing
11-01-2012, 01:04 PM
Its still going to be Rondo.

AndyfromNeptune
11-01-2012, 01:05 PM
1. Irving
2. CP3
3. Westbrook
4. Derrick Rose
5. Deron Williams
6. Rajon Rondo
7. Tony Parker
8. Damian Lillard
9. John Wall
10. Steve Nash

AndyfromNeptune
11-01-2012, 01:05 PM
Its still going to be Rondo.

Won't Kyrie have a better PER and be a much better scorer than Rondo?

Rondo is definitely the better "pure" point guard.

DanG
11-01-2012, 01:08 PM
by the end of 2013 it will still be CP3. Irving will be top 10. I don't see him getting past Cp3, Rose, Westbrook, Deron, Rondo so quickly

knicks=love
11-01-2012, 01:08 PM
Its still going to be Rondo.

rondo never was the best point guard in the nba..

yaswaggin
11-01-2012, 01:08 PM
Idk about this year, but in 2 years Irving will be #1


After this year:

1. CP3
2. Westbrook
3. Irving
4. Rose
5. Deron
6. Rondo
7. Lawson
8. Parker
9. Wall
10. Jrue

NYKnickFanatic
11-01-2012, 01:09 PM
Rondo IMO.

DanG
11-01-2012, 01:10 PM
Right now I would go:

1. Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Williams
4. Rondo
5. Parker


* 2. Rose if healthy

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 01:13 PM
ill come back here if this thread hasnt died by the all star break..

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Holy crap... Are people actually saying that Rondo and Irving are better or will be better point guards than Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose? Are those guys going to just stop playing basketball and take up other careers or something?

Unless Irving makes a monumental leap forward, the top four will still be Paul, Westbrook, Rose and Williams. Paul is still No. 1, without question, but the order of the next three is certainly debatable. Personally, I'd go 2. Westbrook, 3. Rose, 4. Williams.

But Irving has a very good chance to crack the top five with Nash playing in a crowded backcourt in LA, Parker already hitting his peak and Rondo not likely to develop a jump shot anytime soon. Irving could potentially slide into the top three or four if Rose doesn't come back at the level we're accustomed to or if Williams has another down year like he had last season, but I don't see either of those things happening yet.

For Irving to beat out one of the top four, though, his assist numbers need to see significant improvement. He took 20 shots in Cleveland's win on Tuesday and had a 3-4 AST-TO ratio. That doesn't sound like a PG to me.

yaswaggin
11-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Outside top 10:

Tier 1: Curry, Nash, Jennings,

Tier 2: Dragic, Lowry, Lin, Jack

Tier 3: Conley, Teague, Billups

Tier 4: Kidd, Felton, Chalmers, Sessions, Harris

b@llhog24
11-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Cp3

Irving won't pass him until about 3 years imo. People really don't realize just how great Cp3 is.

xxplayerxx23
11-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Irving for MVP!

PleaseBeNice
11-01-2012, 01:16 PM
still cp3

NoahH
11-01-2012, 01:16 PM
I don't think Irving will be #1 after this year, but he's damn good and will probably be top 3.

Baller1
11-01-2012, 01:19 PM
I'll say by the end of this season:

1. CP3
2. Westbrook
3. Williams
4. Irving
5. Rose

yaswaggin
11-01-2012, 01:20 PM
I'll say by the end of this season:

1. CP3
2. Westbrook
3. Irving
4. Williams
5. Rose

Same as mine except I has rose over Williams

In 3 years the best two PGs will be Westbrook and Irving

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 01:22 PM
Same as mine except I has rose over Williams

In 3 years the best two PGs will be Westbrook and Irving

westy for sure..

irving.. well i have to see more from him, and rose might have a say in that, as well as other pgs in the league.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 01:23 PM
Holy crap... Are people actually saying that Rondo and Irving are better or will be better point guards than Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose? Are those guys going to just stop playing basketball and take up other careers or something?

Unless Irving makes a monumental leap forward, the top four will still be Paul, Westbrook, Rose and Williams. Paul is still No. 1, without question, but the order of the next three is certainly debatable. Personally, I'd go 2. Westbrook, 3. Rose, 4. Williams.

But Irving has a very good chance to crack the top five with Nash playing in a crowded backcourt in LA, Parker already hitting his peak and Rondo not likely to develop a jump shot anytime soon. Irving could potentially slide into the top three or four if Rose doesn't come back at the level we're accustomed to or if Williams has another down year like he had last season, but I don't see either of those things happening yet.

For Irving to beat out one of the top four, though, his assist numbers need to see significant improvement. He took 20 shots in Cleveland's win on Tuesday and had a 3-4 AST-TO ratio. That doesn't sound like a PG to me.
imo its
1.cp3
2. westy
3. deron
4. rose

if however dwill carries the bs playing he played last year to this year, he might fall out of the top 4.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 01:25 PM
Outside top 10:

Tier 1: Curry, Nash, Jennings,

Tier 2: Dragic, Lowry, Lin, Jack

Tier 3: Conley, Teague, Billups

Tier 4: Kidd, Felton, Chalmers, Sessions, Harris

Jennings is not a better PG than Dragic, Lowry or Conley (who is way too low on that list). And I think Jack is way too high. Also, I think it's a little silly to break down tiers of players outside of the top 10, especially in small groups of three or four players like this.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 01:26 PM
we dealt with this same garbage in 2010 that "rose is the best pg in the nba, and blah blah"

NO.

until irving plays defense consistently and is effecient in either scoring or making his team mates better he isnt even top 5 yet.

1. cp3
2. westy
3. dwill (unless he plays ****** like last season, he was 2nd on my list until last years mess, if it continues he will fall out of the top 4 imo)
4. rose
5. rondo

imo
im sure peoples list from 2-5 are different, but thats mine.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 01:28 PM
Same as mine except I has rose over Williams

In 3 years the best two PGs will be Westbrook and Irving

Chris Paul will be 30, Derrick Rose will be 27 and Deron Williams will be 31. Are you expecting an early retirement from these guys or something?

knicks=love
11-01-2012, 01:28 PM
i'm not really sure why everyone is so high on rondo. he's not that good.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 01:30 PM
i'm not really sure why everyone is so high on rondo. he's not that good.

ehh his assists make up for his inconsistent fg%, and i hate how he gambles in the passing lanes, but based off of value, i dont see more than 4 pgs better than him currently..
until proven otherwise.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 01:31 PM
i'm not really sure why everyone is so high on rondo. he's not that good.

This. I'm shocked to see that some people mention him as the best PG in the league, but I'm guessing that's based on his distribution skills and not his overall game. In terms of distribution, yes, Rondo might be the best in the NBA. But he can't come close to the top four guys when it comes to all-around games. He has no jump shot, he's a horrible free throw shooter for his position and he's a horribly inefficient scorer.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 01:33 PM
ehh his assists make up for his inconsistent fg%, and i hate how he gambles in the passing lanes, but based off of value, i dont see more than 4 pgs better than him currently..
until proven otherwise.

I would take Parker and Nash over him. And I think you could make a legit case for Irving, Lowry and Lawson.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 01:36 PM
I would take Parker and Nash over him. And I think you could make a legit case for Irving, Lowry and Lawson.

true true.. parker, i def see it.. nash, im not so sure..
but i wouldnt get too worried if you did think either one of those 2 were better than rondo.

for some reason, or maybe its just me, i feel as if rondo only shows up for prime time games..

JasonJohnHorn
11-01-2012, 01:36 PM
I'll go with CP3. I mena, Irving can score the ball no doubt, and he had a good night to open the season, but he also gave out more turnovers than assits! That's not what PGs shoudl be doing. I don't expect CP3 to lead all PGs in scoring (likely Westbrook will be doing that, fawking ball hog that he is ;-) just joking, just a little trolling there), and he may not lead PGs in assists either (that will be Rondo) but I expect him to be a better balance between the two than either Westbrook or Rondo. Plus, there isn't a better defender at the position than CP3 (though Rondo is just as good on that end of the court as CP3, and is likely the better rebounder of the two as well).

CP3 can shoot and drive, which makes him hard to guard and allows him to open things up for his teammates.

Irving still has to work on his assist-to-turnover ratio. That's a big part of be a good PG.

knicks=love
11-01-2012, 01:38 PM
ehh his assists make up for his inconsistent fg%, and i hate how he gambles in the passing lanes, but based off of value, i dont see more than 4 pgs better than him currently..
until proven otherwise.

he has so many assists because he was playing with 3 HOFers at one time. put him on the bobcats, magic, etc. and i guarantee he doesn't do as well. cp3, rose (when healthy), deron, westbrook are for sure better. i'd probably take parker over him and lowry could be a good debate as well as lawson and possibly nash even with his age.


This. I'm shocked to see that some people mention him as the best PG in the league, but I'm guessing that's based on his distribution skills and not his overall game. In terms of distribution, yes, Rondo might be the best in the NBA. But he can't come close to the top four guys when it comes to all-around games. He has no jump shot, he's a horrible free throw shooter for his position and he's a horribly inefficient scorer.

he can get to the rim at ease and his ball handling skills are off the charts, but other than that i really don't understand what people are thinking.

strahan92osi72
11-01-2012, 01:40 PM
Irving for MVP!

If he gets that team with that horrible supporting cast anywhere near the playoffs, you can bet he will get serious consideration.

ManRam
11-01-2012, 01:41 PM
If your opinion is that Rondo is the best PG in the NBA, your opinion is wrong. It's fine to have it, it's just wrong. You're probably getting too caught up in his assists, which are important, but don't even come close to making up for the rest of his offensive deficiencies. He can be a major liability at time...there are PGs that are never a liability to their team.

I'd be more convinced in his PG abilities if he was running an offense that was actually having success. He hasn't done that in a long time now.

Chris Paul is the best.

Kyrie is very good, and will continue to get better, but he isn't toppling Paul this season.

Deron will bounce back in most people's minds now that he has talent around him again.


Right now, considering health, Westbrook, Deron and Paul are the clear tier 1. Rose obviously is there when healthy. The next tier would be guys like Parker, Rondo, Lawson and Irving (had a great game, but it was against probably the least talented team they'll play all year...considering Washington's injuries...can't get too carried away yet). Nash is on the fringe. I think he'll obviously play better, but he's such a liability defensively right now.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 01:43 PM
true true.. parker, i def see it.. nash, im not so sure..
but i wouldnt get too worried if you did think either one of those 2 were better than rondo.

for some reason, or maybe its just me, i feel as if rondo only shows up for prime time games..

I will admit that Rondo seems to play much better in the postseason and that his numbers in the playoffs last year were pretty impressive, but I also think his superstar status is completely overrated. Everyone kept talking about that insane 44-point game he had against Miami in game 2 last season, but no one seems to bring up his mediocre series against Philly or the 3-15, 7-point no show in game five in which KG completely took over.

Rondo is a phenomenal distributor who finds ways to score, but has to chunk up way too many shots to do it. He certainly does not deserve to be in the same discussion as the top four guys, though, and I don't think he deserves to be spoken in the same breath as "superstar."

Rivera
11-01-2012, 01:44 PM
Top PGS right now:

cp3
westy
deron
rondo
parker
irving
(i excluded rose cause he isnt playing/isnt healty)

by seasons end:

cp3
kyrie irving
westy
rondo
deron williams


thats my prediction

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 01:46 PM
I will admit that Rondo seems to play much better in the postseason and that his numbers in the playoffs last year were pretty impressive, but I also think his superstar status is completely overrated. Everyone kept talking about that insane 44-point game he had against Miami in game 2 last season, but no one seems to bring up his mediocre series against Philly or the 3-15, 7-point no show in game five in which KG completely took over.

Rondo is a phenomenal distributor who finds ways to score, but has to chunk up way too many shots to do it. He certainly does not deserve to be in the same discussion as the top four guys, though, and I don't think he deserves to be spoken in the same breath as "superstar."

oh absolutely. i am not saying he is a superstar or anywhere close to the top 4, actually parker is a very good choice for 5th.
i would say between 5-6 for him maybe worse, depending on where you rank lawson, lowry, nash, co.

however he does make his front court players look good, at least against miami.. very frustrating.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 01:46 PM
he can get to the rim at ease and his ball handling skills are off the charts, but other than that i really don't understand what people are thinking.

But the problem with his ability to get to the rim is that he can't hit free throws. For a guy whose only legitimate way of scoring points is to get to the rim, a career 62% from the free throw line is just inexcusable. And I chalk that up to lack of dedication to the game. If he was really an elite player, he would have figured out a decent free throw stroke by now and practiced the hell out of it.

knicks=love
11-01-2012, 01:49 PM
But the problem with his ability to get to the rim is that he can't hit free throws. For a guy whose only legitimate way of scoring points is to get to the rim, a career 62% from the free throw line is just inexcusable. And I chalk that up to lack of dedication to the game. If he was really an elite player, he would have figured out a decent free throw stroke by now and practiced the hell out of it.

no i completely agree, i'm just saying he's extremely good at getting to the rim haha.

xxplayerxx23
11-01-2012, 01:53 PM
I think Iriving has a chance. Rondo is not near Pauls level Im sorry, he is good an all but he is top 5-7 range for me, I personally have him 6th behind Parker.

dylon smoke
11-01-2012, 01:57 PM
rondo is the best point gaurd....we aint talking shooting gaurds people, he gets his teamates the ball better than anyone in the nba.......a couple years agho people were sayin d rose was better, than when they matched up in the playoffs rondo had like 4 triple doubles, outshined him.....everytime he matches up against these so called "better point gaurds", he plays better then them......he has the best postseason track record in the nba right now

JdKing7
11-01-2012, 01:59 PM
Cp3 is and still will be the best point guard in the league. I can defiantly see Irving being number one in 2-3 years tho.

naps
11-01-2012, 02:02 PM
Chris Paul. He's by far the best point guard in the league. It won't be easy to pass him. I am sure people who have doubts don't watch CP3 play much.

theheatles
11-01-2012, 02:03 PM
cp3
rose
kyrie
russ
rondo

...by seasons end

ManRam
11-01-2012, 02:04 PM
rondo is the best point gaurd....we aint talking shooting gaurds people, he gets his teamates the ball better than anyone in the nba.......a couple years agho people were sayin d rose was better, than when they matched up in the playoffs rondo had like 4 triple doubles, outshined him.....everytime he matches up against these so called "better point gaurds", he plays better then them......he has the best postseason track record in the nba right now

People need to get over these silly positional definitions. It's archaic. Rondo's ability to pass is great, but his shortcomings elsewhere are detrimental. There's more to being a PG than just passing the ball. His offenses the last 3 years have been below average, the last two seasons have been bottom third. If he's such a wonderful point guard, why are his teams sucking offensively?

Offensively, give me a PG that can pass, score and shoot over a PG that can pass. Chris Paul does all of those things at elite levels, and is just as strong of a defender as Rondo. It's ludicrous to suggest Rondo is better.

This whole "pure PG" or "true PG" or whatever it's called is stupid. There are multiple ways to play the PG position, and many of them lead to very effective offenses. You call Rose, Westbrook etc. "shooting guards"...I call them guys who are PGs for elite offenses, and I also call them better all around players. Better passers? No...but that's a tiny percentage of what a PG needs to do.

Also, a couple years ago is a couple years ago. Also, using one series to make a point is foolish.

TheLoneWanderer
11-01-2012, 02:06 PM
1.John wall
2.CP3
3.Kyle Irving(Will Sign with the Heat)
4.Rondo
5.Ricky Rubio(becomes the modern day Steve Nash)

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 02:06 PM
1.John wall
2.CP3
3.Kyle Irving(Will Sign with the Heat)
4.Rondo
5.Ricky Rubio(becomes the modern day Steve Nash)

:facepalm:

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 02:14 PM
Rondo
Cp3
Irving

Top 3 for me by the end of the year.

Also I think Ty lawson will have a huge year, obv not top 5 though

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 02:18 PM
If your opinion is that Rondo is the best PG in the NBA, your opinion is wrong. It's fine to have it, it's just wrong. You're probably getting too caught up in his assists, which are important, but don't even come close to making up for the rest of his offensive deficiencies. He can be a major liability at time...there are PGs that are never a liability to their team.

I'd be more convinced in his PG abilities if he was running an offense that was actually having success. He hasn't done that in a long time now.

Chris Paul is the best.

Kyrie is very good, and will continue to get better, but he isn't toppling Paul this season.

Deron will bounce back in most people's minds now that he has talent around him again.


Right now, considering health, Westbrook, Deron and Paul are the clear tier 1. Rose obviously is there when healthy. The next tier would be guys like Parker, Rondo, Lawson and Irving (had a great game, but it was against probably the least talented team they'll play all year...considering Washington's injuries...can't get too carried away yet). Nash is on the fringe. I think he'll obviously play better, but he's such a liability defensively right now.

Says who? Rondos won a championship, CP3 has not. Let me know when Chris Pauls done something in the playoffs.

Guys like Melo get killed every year for doing nothing in the playoffs but Chris Paul gets a pass for it every single year.

You just considered Westbrook a top 3 point guard... You sir are delusional. Hes an undersized 2 guard who takes tons of shots but does not run an offense efficiently. Id take Rondo over Westbrook every day of the week and im a Knick fan so I hate the C's

Max.This
11-01-2012, 02:22 PM
Rajon Rondo. He lights up the Heat, the best team in the Nba, everytime he faces them.

xxplayerxx23
11-01-2012, 02:23 PM
Says who? Rondos won a championship, CP3 has not. Let me know when Chris Pauls done something in the playoffs.

Guys like Melo get killed every year for doing nothing in the playoffs but Chris Paul gets a pass for it every single year.

You just considered Westbrook a top 3 point guard... You sir are delusional. Hes an undersized 2 guard who takes tons of shots but does not run an offense efficiently. Id take Rondo over Westbrook every day of the week and im a Knick fan so I hate the C's

Are you kidding me? Rondo won it when he was nothing. Look at pauls numbers in the plaoffs, look at the teams he has played on minus one year in LA. Rondo has played with 3 HOFers and didnt have to go through the much tougher west. Westy is also the better player

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 02:31 PM
Are you kidding me? Rondo won it when he was nothing. Look at pauls numbers in the plaoffs, look at the teams he has played on minus one year in LA. Rondo has played with 3 HOFers and didnt have to go through the much tougher west. Westy is also the better player

Its true he won it when he wasn't the player he was now but still, what has Chris Paul really done?

If he was so great he would have been able to do more come playoff time. Hes never even been out the second round and even last year the Clippers did not deserve to beat Memphis yet the guy gets a pass every year.

And sorry your an idiot if you think Westbrooks better than Rondo.

jp611
11-01-2012, 02:33 PM
It'll be Rose

Minne-sota4life
11-01-2012, 02:33 PM
1. Cp3
2. D-rose
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Deron Williams
5. Tony Parker
6. Rondo
7. Ricky Rubio
8. Kyrie Irving
9. Steve Nash
10. John Wall

Honorable mentions, Ty Lawson, Brandon Jennings, Kyle Lowry, Jose Calderon, Stephon Curry

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 02:37 PM
Everyone has there own opinion. Rondo might not be the most consistent performer on a day to day basis but there are certainly no other point guards in the league that can give some of the performances he gives.

53 minutes 44 pts 8 rebs 10 asts against Miami of all teams in the playoffs. Lemme know when Cp3 can put up numbers like that.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
11-01-2012, 02:39 PM
Holy crap... Are people actually saying that Rondo and Irving are better or will be better point guards than Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose? Are those guys going to just stop playing basketball and take up other careers or something?

Unless Irving makes a monumental leap forward, the top four will still be Paul, Westbrook, Rose and Williams. Paul is still No. 1, without question, but the order of the next three is certainly debatable. Personally, I'd go 2. Westbrook, 3. Rose, 4. Williams.

But Irving has a very good chance to crack the top five with Nash playing in a crowded backcourt in LA, Parker already hitting his peak and Rondo not likely to develop a jump shot anytime soon. Irving could potentially slide into the top three or four if Rose doesn't come back at the level we're accustomed to or if Williams has another down year like he had last season, but I don't see either of those things happening yet.

For Irving to beat out one of the top four, though, his assist numbers need to see significant improvement. He took 20 shots in Cleveland's win on Tuesday and had a 3-4 AST-TO ratio. That doesn't sound like a PG to me.


You know what's funny is that people say Rondo is up and coming(the once he improves his jump shot crap) yet Rose and Westbrook are younger than him and he's just a year younger than CP3 and Deron but yet he's still not as good as them.


Said before the season that Kyrie would be a top 3 PG by seasons end. Hopefully for the Cavs he keeps it up.

knicks=love
11-01-2012, 02:40 PM
Says who? Rondos won a championship, CP3 has not. Let me know when Chris Pauls done something in the playoffs.

Guys like Melo get killed every year for doing nothing in the playoffs but Chris Paul gets a pass for it every single year.

You just considered Westbrook a top 3 point guard... You sir are delusional. Hes an undersized 2 guard who takes tons of shots but does not run an offense efficiently. Id take Rondo over Westbrook every day of the week and im a Knick fan so I hate the C's

ok so put chris paul on the celtics with ray allen, kevin garnett, and paul pierce and i GUARANTEE you they win multiple championships. rondo was put in an excellent situation by playing with 3 HOFers right at the start of his career. chris paul has been one really good team thus far in his career, and the one this year tops all of them.

i don't hate rondo, but the love for him is ridiculous. all everyone ever sees is him racking up a huge amount of assists, but look at who he's playing with. chris paul can score from every where on the floor, where rondo can't. chris paul is also a much better defender.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 02:42 PM
Wow I can't believe ppl think rondo is anywhere near cp3...

Rondo is a good rebounder, great hands, good pick pocketer, phenomenal passer, however he is a terrible ft shooter, inconsistent shooter, and his 1 on 1 defense is just not good.

IMO he is better than Nash, and a toss up between Parker and him, however he is not better than cp3, westy, d-will, and rose.

The nba analysts were saying he should score more often since he has a good stroke, but he doesn't and it's very inconsistent. Unless he improved that facet of his game or if he becomes a solid 1 on 1 defender, than he will get the benefit of the doubt, until than sorry.

WhiteSoxGod
11-01-2012, 02:48 PM
1. Chris Paul
2. Rondo
3. Tony Parker
4. D-Rose
5. Kyrie Irving
6. Deron Williams
7. Jeremy Lin
8. Ricky Rubio
9. Steve Nash
10. John Wall


Westbrook is not a point guard thus ineligible for this list.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 02:52 PM
Says who? Rondos won a championship, CP3 has not. Let me know when Chris Pauls done something in the playoffs.

Guys like Melo get killed every year for doing nothing in the playoffs but Chris Paul gets a pass for it every single year.

You just considered Westbrook a top 3 point guard... You sir are delusional. Hes an undersized 2 guard who takes tons of shots but does not run an offense efficiently. Id take Rondo over Westbrook every day of the week and im a Knick fan so I hate the C's

That is an awful and incredibly weak argument right there, stop while you don't dig that hole too deep.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 02:55 PM
1. Chris Paul
2. Rondo
3. Tony Parker
4. D-Rose
5. Kyrie Irving
6. Deron Williams
7. Jeremy Lin
8. Ricky Rubio
9. Steve Nash
10. John Wall


Westbrook is not a point guard thus ineligible for this list.

:sigh: Dude, you know I love you, right? Because this list is awful. Rondo better than Rose and Williams? Westbrook not a PG? C'mon man. This is crazy.

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 02:56 PM
You people realize that Rose is hurt right? Why is he even being mentioned? As much as I love Derrick Rose, the reality is he might never be the same player he was( which would be a shame) or it may take a year or 2, but the guys game was predicated so much on athleticism. So we shall see.

And to anyone giving the whole Rondo plays with hall of famers excuse, ill ask you who carried those hall of famers to the ECF last year and was the best player on the team?

Thats something Chris Paul has never done, and im not saying Chris Paul isn't great because he obv is. Im just saying he gets a pass all the time when he really has done nothing in the playoffs.

And still anyone who thinks Westbrooks better than Rondos an idiot. Hes a glorified 2 guard who can't run an offense. A lot of the thunders offense was fast break points or WB takes his man 1 on 1, Harden takes his man to the hole 1 on 1, Durant takes his man 1 on 1. He just doesn't run an offense like Rondo does.

Everyone knows Rondos 5th ALL TIME in playoff triple doubles right?

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 02:57 PM
1. Chris Paul
2. Rondo
3. Tony Parker
4. D-Rose
5. Kyrie Irving
6. Deron Williams
7. Jeremy Lin
8. Ricky Rubio
9. Steve Nash
10. John Wall


Westbrook is not a point guard thus ineligible for this list.

Fair enough. Idc if people say Chris paul is better than rondo but Westbrook certainly is not.

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 03:00 PM
That is an awful and incredibly weak argument right there, stop while you don't dig that hole too deep.

Fair enough, that argument was weak but tell me what Chris Paul has done in the playoffs.

Never been out the second round and did not deserve to get out the first round last year but Memphis decided to choke like they were Jenna Jameson or something.

All im saying is the guy gets a pass every year when guys like Melo get killed for the same reasons. Maybe its just the Knick fan in me and seeing Rondo destroy us all the time, idk.

DreamShaker
11-01-2012, 03:00 PM
Cp3

Irving won't pass him until about 3 years imo. People really don't realize just how great Cp3 is.

I agree. Paul is arguably the second best player in the NBA, arguably.

knicks=love
11-01-2012, 03:01 PM
You people realize that Rose is hurt right? Why is he even being mentioned? As much as I love Derrick Rose, the reality is he might never be the same player he was( which would be a shame) or it may take a year or 2, but the guys game was predicated so much on athleticism. So we shall see.

And to anyone giving the whole Rondo plays with hall of famers excuse, ill ask you who carried those hall of famers to the ECF last year and was the best player on the team?

Thats something Chris Paul has never done, and im not saying Chris Paul isn't great because he obv is. Im just saying he gets a pass all the time when he really has done nothing in the playoffs.

And still anyone who thinks Westbrooks better than Rondos an idiot. Hes a glorified 2 guard who can't run an offense. A lot of the thunders offense was fast break points or WB takes his man 1 on 1, Harden takes his man to the hole 1 on 1, Durant takes his man 1 on 1. He just doesn't run an offense like Rondo does.

Everyone knows Rondos 5th ALL TIME in playoff triple doubles right?

chris paul has never had a supporting cast as good as rondo's. what part of that do you NOT understand?!

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 03:09 PM
Fair enough, that argument was weak but tell me what Chris Paul has done in the playoffs.

Never been out the second round and did not deserve to get out the first round last year but Memphis decided to choke like they were Jenna Jameson or something.

All im saying is the guy gets a pass every year when guys like Melo get killed for the same reasons. Maybe its just the Knick fan in me and seeing Rondo destroy us all the time, idk.

2007-2008 24.1 PPG/11.3 APG 30.7 PER while taking the defending champs to the brink of elimination in the WCSF with a supporting cast of david west AND tyson chandler. Clearly we can see he wasn't the problem here.

2008-2009 14.9 ppg/9.3 apg 16.1 PER, they were bounced in 5 so I'll give you that one.

2010-2011 22.0 ppg/11.5 apg 28.9 PER while playing the back 2 back NBA champs and taking them to 6 games when many saw it as a 4 game sweep

2011-2012 16.5 ppg/7.4 apg 20.1 PER he struggled this year as well, but was still more efficient than Rondo in all his postseasons except 1.

sammyvine
11-01-2012, 03:10 PM
As a player i would rank Westbrook as the best out of all the PG's. As a PG though i don't really rate him. He doesnt run the floor well or is a good passer.

1. Chris Paul.

2. Rondo.

3. Tony Parker

4. Deron Williams

5. Russell Westbrook

This is from what i have seen from the play offs to now.

sammyvine
11-01-2012, 03:13 PM
I think Iriving has a chance. Rondo is not near Pauls level Im sorry, he is good an all but he is top 5-7 range for me, I personally have him 6th behind Parker.

How?

He was one of the best players in the play offs last season. What has Chris Paul done that is so wonderful

People make him to be in the league of Lebron as basically untouchable when he is not.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 03:13 PM
Fair enough. Idc if people say Chris paul is better than rondo but Westbrook certainly is not.

How is Rondo better than Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook? Please provide stats to defend your argument aside from vague generalizations and his one ring that proves nothing.

sammyvine
11-01-2012, 03:13 PM
2007-2008 24.1 PPG/11.3 APG 30.7 PER while taking the defending champs to the brink of elimination in the WCSF with a supporting cast of david west AND tyson chandler. Clearly we can see he wasn't the problem here.

2008-2009 14.9 ppg/9.3 apg 16.1 PER, they were bounced in 5 so I'll give you that one.

2010-2011 22.0 ppg/11.5 apg 28.9 PER while playing the back 2 back NBA champs and taking them to 6 games when many saw it as a 4 game sweep

2011-2012 16.5 ppg/7.4 apg 20.1 PER he struggled this year as well, but was still more efficient than Rondo in all his postseasons except 1.

Never been to a final or a conference final. He is the best PG in the game, but he is overrated overall as a player.

sammyvine
11-01-2012, 03:16 PM
How is Rondo better than Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook? Please provide stats to defend your argument aside from vague generalizations and his one ring that proves nothing.

Why you so up Chris Pauls bum lol. He is the best PG in the game but Rondo is no scrub.

Westbrook plays with Durant. If Rondo played with him, Durant would average 50 a game.

Westbrook a great player but he is a poor pg imo. Even Magic Johnson agrees.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 03:17 PM
Never been to a final or a conference final. He is the best PG in the game, but he is overrated overall as a player.

That has nothing to do with his ability as a player. Rondo played with 3 sure fire hall of famers for 5 years, that's a huge reason why he's won a title.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

Take a look for yourself

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 03:20 PM
How is Rondo better than Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook? Please provide stats to defend your argument aside from vague generalizations and his one ring that proves nothing.

I gave up on the Chris Paul argument but ill ask you the same question... How is Westbrook better than Rondo? Hes a glorified 2 guard who offers nothing besides scoring and takes more shots than the guy who led the league in scoring the last 3 years.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 03:23 PM
Why you so up Chris Pauls bum lol. He is the best PG in the game but Rondo is no scrub.
I never said Rondo is a scrub, but Paul's overall game completely mops the floor with Rondo's overall game. Paul will probably go down as one of the five or six greatest point guards in the history of the NBA.


Westbrook plays with Durant. If Rondo played with him, Durant would average 50 a game.
This is completely false, mostly because great wings like Durant do better with the ball in their hands than they do with another player creating for him. Would he get more looks and some more open jumpers if Rondo was his PG? Yes. But 50 points is a complete exaggeration, and that Thunder team wouldn't be nearly as good with Rondo instead of Westbrook, because they would have no No. 2 scorer.


Westbrook a great player but he is a poor pg imo. Even Magic Johnson agrees.
Westbrook is admittedly more of a combo guard than a pure point guard, but fans need to get over the archaic labels we put on players and their positions. The Heat just won a title with no real point guard and no center. Bottom line, Westbrook is the much better basketball player and if we're rating point guards based on talent, skill and impact on their teams, Rondo can't touch Westbrook.

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 03:23 PM
chris paul has never had a supporting cast as good as rondo's. what part of that do you NOT understand?!

Lmao, please stop. Id take the Clippers supporting cast over Bostons LAST YEAR when Rondo took his team to the ECF and Chris Paul should not have been out the first round if it not were for the Memphis Grizzlies giving the series to LA.

Ray, KG and Pierce were not the same players last year that they were when they won in 2008. That is Rondos team now.

And like i said im done with the CP3 argument, but no way is westbrook better than Rondo.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 03:29 PM
Lmao, please stop. Id take the Clippers supporting cast over Bostons LAST YEAR when Rondo took his team to the ECF and Chris Paul should not have been out the first round if it not were for the Memphis Grizzlies giving the series to LA.

Ray, KG and Pierce were not the same players last year that they were when they won in 2008. That is Rondos team now.

And like i said im done with the CP3 argument, but no way is westbrook better than Rondo.

You're in the minority here, I guarantee that.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 03:29 PM
I gave up on the Chris Paul argument but ill ask you the same question... How is Westbrook better than Rondo? Hes a glorified 2 guard who offers nothing besides scoring and takes more shots than the guy who led the league in scoring the last 3 years.

He's better in tons of ways, but most of them admittedly start in terms of scoring. I would argue that Westbrook might be the most unstoppable player in the league when it comes to getting to the rim. His speed and athleticism allow him to get to the basket better than perhaps any player in the league. And unlike Rondo, he can actually shoot free throws when he's fouled. He has a unique ability to score within 10 feet unlike few players I've seen. His ability to run the length of the floor, stop on a dime and hit a 10-12 footer is uncanny and he has a solid floater, as well.

And although he's a bit of a high volume scorer, he's relatively efficient because he reaches the line so much and because a lot of his attempts are high percentage looks. He could cut down on his 3s and long 2s, but regardless he's a superior scorer to Rondo in every possible way and when you absolutely positively have to get two points, Westbrook is one of the four or five guys in the NBA whose hands I would want the ball in.

Is Rondo a better distributor and passer? Yes. Could Westbrook be a little less selfish and look for his teammates more? Yes. But at the end of the day, scoring is at a much higher premium in this league than passing is. Who would you rather have on your team: Steve Nash or Kevin Durant? I would make the same argument for Westbrook and Rondo.

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 03:29 PM
The OP was asking who will be the best PG by the end of the Season...

My prediction is Rondo, If im wrong when this seasons over then so be it.

But by the end of this season I think it will be

Rondo
Cp3
Irving

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 03:32 PM
The OP was asking who will be the best PG by the end of the Season...

My prediction is Rondo, If im wrong when this seasons over then so be it.

But by the end of this season I think it will be

Rondo
Cp3
Irving

Fair enough :cheers:

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 03:36 PM
He's better in tons of ways, but most of them admittedly start in terms of scoring. I would argue that Westbrook might be the most unstoppable player in the league when it comes to getting to the rim. His speed and athleticism allow him to get to the basket better than perhaps any player in the league. And unlike Rondo, he can actually shoot free throws when he's fouled. He has a unique ability to score within 10 feet unlike few players I've seen. His ability to run the length of the floor, stop on a dime and hit a 10-12 footer is uncanny and he has a solid floater, as well.

And although he's a bit of a high volume scorer, he's relatively efficient because he reaches the line so much and because a lot of his attempts are high percentage looks. He could cut down on his 3s and long 2s, but regardless he's a superior scorer to Rondo in every possible way and when you absolutely positively have to get two points, Westbrook is one of the four or five guys in the NBA whose hands I would want the ball in.

Is Rondo a better distributor and passer? Yes. Could Westbrook be a little less selfish and look for his teammates more? Yes. But at the end of the day, scoring is at a much higher premium in this league than passing is. Who would you rather have on your team: Steve Nash or Kevin Durant? I would make the same argument for Westbrook and Rondo.

100% WRONG.

It depends on the makeup of the team. If you put Westbrook on the Celtics last year he would be useless outside the 20 ppg he gives you. Most of that roster cannot create shots for themselves outside of Paul Pierce really. Bradley was a corner 3 shooter, Ray ran off screens, Kg would hit the open mid range shot, etc etc. I get that the Thunder need Westbrook to SCORE but a lot of the time he did it at the expense of Durant and Harden. There were games when Durant could be 10-11, westbrook 3-12 and he would keep chucking away.

Steve Nash or Kevin Durant? WTF that makes no sense whatsoever.

Derrick Rose is the kind of PG Westbrook should strive to be, a super athletic ball handler than can actually run an offense.

Asking if I would rather Steve Nash or Kevin Durant is just flat out stupid.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 03:39 PM
The OP was asking who will be the best PG by the end of the Season...

My prediction is Rondo, If im wrong when this seasons over then so be it.

But by the end of this season I think it will be

Rondo
Cp3
Irving

Here's my problem with that. Rondo is 26 and is in his seventh season in the NBA. What would lead you to believe that he's all of a sudden going to take the leap forward as a basketball player? Is he all of a sudden going to start making his free throws and develop his jump shot? Is he all of a sudden going to average 18-20 points a game?

Players make leaps forward all the time, but hardly ever when they've been in the league as long as Rondo has. And I've seen nothing that would have me believe otherwise, especially when you consider that they added Terry and Lee, so they've got plenty of other backcourt scoring options.

So you tell me. Why is Rondo going to jump from one of the 5-7 best PGs to the best PGs in a single season? What improvements has he made or is he going to make in order to improve that much?

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 03:39 PM
Fair enough :cheers:

Cheers, people need to relax a little bit LOL. Chris Pauls amazing. Im just saying (as a Knick fan with Melo on my team) that he gets a pass for really not accomplishing much in the playoffs when other superstars get killed for it . That is all, its not like im saying Chris Duhon > Chris Paul or something!

Corey
11-01-2012, 03:41 PM
See my user title.

Kyrie > all.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 03:42 PM
Cheers, people need to relax a little bit LOL. Chris Pauls amazing. Im just saying (as a Knick fan with Melo on my team) that he gets a pass for really not accomplishing much in the playoffs when other superstars get killed for it . That is all, its not like im saying Chris Duhon > Chris Paul or something!

I don't really dwell on that fact unless they are 1 of the main issues said team didn't advance. Hard to hate on guys when they're plain out beat by superior teams.

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 03:43 PM
Here's my problem with that. Rondo is 26 and is in his seventh season in the NBA. What would lead you to believe that he's all of a sudden going to take the leap forward as a basketball player? Is he all of a sudden going to start making his free throws and develop his jump shot? Is he all of a sudden going to average 18-20 points a game?

Players make leaps forward all the time, but hardly ever when they've been in the league as long as Rondo has. And I've seen nothing that would have me believe otherwise, especially when you consider that they added Terry and Lee, so they've got plenty of other backcourt scoring options.

So you tell me. Why is Rondo going to jump from one of the 5-7 best PGs to the best PGs in a single season? What improvements has he made or is he going to make in order to improve that much?

Because to me, he is not one of the 5-7 best PGs he is already up there. If you wanna say Chris paul is better I am fine with that. But Dwill, come on what has he done in the last few years and he gets overrated all the time. Rose is done till what, December or Jan, and who says he comes back the same player. Parkers a year older, Nash is a year older now. And ive said all i can on Westbrook, lets see how they look without Harden there. There is no right or wrong, the season just started and my prediction is that Rondo will be the best. If I am wrong, SO BE IT

But I see no reason why Rondo can't jump up there with the likes of Cp3

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 03:43 PM
See my user title.

Kyrie > all.

Uncle Drew=GOAT

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 03:45 PM
100% WRONG.
No it's not. If you asked any GM in the NBA if they would rather have Rajon Rondo or Russell Westbrook, you would get 30 "Westbrook" responses.


It depends on the makeup of the team. If you put Westbrook on the Celtics last year he would be useless outside the 20 ppg he gives you. Most of that roster cannot create shots for themselves outside of Paul Pierce really. Bradley was a corner 3 shooter, Ray ran off screens, Kg would hit the open mid range shot, etc etc.
That has to do with the makeup of the team and should be more the GM's fault than the player's fault. But I still think the Celtics would be a superior team with Westbrook than with Rondo, because the dude's just an elite scorer. And you can always find ways to get guys like Garnett and Allen the ball. Paul Pierce certainly has not problem creating his own shot.


I get that the Thunder need Westbrook to SCORE but a lot of the time he did it at the expense of Durant and Harden. There were games when Durant could be 10-11, westbrook 3-12 and he would keep chucking away.
That's what he is: a scorer. That doesn't make him any less valuable of a player.


Steve Nash or Kevin Durant? WTF that makes no sense whatsoever.
My point is simply that Steve Nash is probably the best pure point guard in the NBA when it comes to making his teammates better and creating for others while Durant is probably the best pure scorer in the NBA. At the end of the day, you'd take Durant 100 times out of 100.

Rivera
11-01-2012, 03:47 PM
See my user title.

Kyrie > all.

Corey brewer is the best/will be the best pg in the NBA :confused:

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 03:47 PM
Still don't see how people don't notice that as the big 3 got older, and less productive offensively, and the team needed Rondo to pick up the slack, that Boston annually slid in offensive efficiency.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 03:47 PM
Cheers, people need to relax a little bit LOL. Chris Pauls amazing. Im just saying (as a Knick fan with Melo on my team) that he gets a pass for really not accomplishing much in the playoffs when other superstars get killed for it . That is all, its not like im saying Chris Duhon > Chris Paul or something!

Chris Paul has never had teammates capable of being a legit contender. His New Orleans team was just mediocre as hell aside form him, and all he has in LA at this point is Griffin and a slew of role players. He's got to get some legitimate help before we crucify him for not winning rings.

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 03:48 PM
I don't really dwell on that fact unless they are 1 of the main issues said team didn't advance. Hard to hate on guys when they're plain out beat by superior teams.

Question, do you think Westbrooks awful chucking, outside of game 4 where he went 20-32 was one of the main issues that the Thunder did not beat Miami. Because for me it is.

rickshaw
11-01-2012, 03:50 PM
Right Now:
CP3
Westbrook
Deron
Rondo
Parker
Nash
Irving

After this year I think Irving passes Nash and Parker for sure, possibly Rondo.

And Rose is second when healthy, just don't like ranking seriously injured players. Creepily, the Adidas Rose commercial just came on as I wrote that.

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 03:52 PM
Chris Paul has never had teammates capable of being a legit contender. His New Orleans team was just mediocre as hell aside form him, and all he has in LA at this point is Griffin and a slew of role players. He's got to get some legitimate help before we crucify him for not winning rings.

So your saying a top 3 player in the NBA is getting a pass right now if he does not perform in the playoffs when he has teammates like Griffin, Jordan, Crawford, Martin, Billups, Bledsoe, Odom. They might be role players but they are all good players. Just a question

rickshaw
11-01-2012, 03:53 PM
chris paul has never had a supporting cast as good as rondo's. what part of that do you NOT understand?!

It's probably too hard for him to understand things when his head is so far up Rondo's ***.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 03:54 PM
Because to me, he is not one of the 5-7 best PGs he is already up there. If you wanna say Chris paul is better I am fine with that. But Dwill, come on what has he done in the last few years and he gets overrated all the time. Rose is done till what, December or Jan, and who says he comes back the same player. Parkers a year older, Nash is a year older now. And ive said all i can on Westbrook, lets see how they look without Harden there. There is no right or wrong, the season just started and my prediction is that Rondo will be the best. If I am wrong, SO BE IT

But I see no reason why Rondo can't jump up there with the likes of Cp3

But your logic is seriously flawed if you think he's one of the 3-4 best PGs in the NBA. Or you're placing far too much emphasis on passing and playmaking and not nearly enough emphasis on overall offensive impact. Is Rose hurt? Yes, but he'll be back and he'll clearly be a better player than Rondo. Was D-Will off last season? Yes, but he's a superior overall offensive player to Rondo and it's not close. And does Westbrook not pass as much as he should? Of course. But he's one of the five or six best scorers in the NBA and has more of an impact on the offensive side of the floor than Rondo does while providing similar defense.

So, clearly, Rondo is not as good of a player than Williams, Rose or Westbrook and, therefore, should not be considered a top four PG.

49erGiantLaker
11-01-2012, 03:55 PM
CP3 or Rondo

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 03:55 PM
No it's not. If you asked any GM in the NBA if they would rather have Rajon Rondo or Russell Westbrook, you would get 30 "Westbrook" responses.


That has to do with the makeup of the team and should be more the GM's fault than the player's fault. But I still think the Celtics would be a superior team with Westbrook than with Rondo, because the dude's just an elite scorer. And you can always find ways to get guys like Garnett and Allen the ball. Paul Pierce certainly has not problem creating his own shot.


That's what he is: a scorer. That doesn't make him any less valuable of a player.


My point is simply that Steve Nash is probably the best pure point guard in the NBA when it comes to making his teammates better and creating for others while Durant is probably the best pure scorer in the NBA. At the end of the day, you'd take Durant 100 times out of 100.

One is 39 and one is what 25? Yea I think id take Durant too.

Would you rather have Harden or Rondo? Because actually, of those 30 GMS, the majority said they would rather have Harden than Westbrook. If you don't believe me you can look it up.

SDBearsFan
11-01-2012, 03:56 PM
lmao, Kyrie Irving over Derrick Rose? Talk to me when he becomes the youngest MVP in league history.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 03:57 PM
Still don't see how people don't notice that as the big 3 got older, and less productive offensively, and the team needed Rondo to pick up the slack, that Boston annually slid in offensive efficiency.

Thought it was self explanatory to them haha.


Question, do you think Westbrooks awful chucking, outside of game 4 where he went 20-32 was one of the main issues that the Thunder did not beat Miami. Because for me it is.

I honestly didn't get to watch the finals much because of work, but I've always had an issue with him chucking when he's got the best jump shooter/scorer in the game on his team.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 03:57 PM
So your saying a top 3 player in the NBA is getting a pass right now if he does not perform in the playoffs when he has teammates like Griffin, Jordan, Crawford, Martin, Billups, Bledsoe, Odom. They might be role players but they are all good players. Just a question

Jordan is awful, Billups was hurt, Crawford and Odom weren't there last season, Martin was a shell of his former self and Bledsoe was good enough to play 12 minutes a game last season. What else you got?

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 03:58 PM
lmao, Kyrie Irving over Derrick Rose? Talk to me when he becomes the youngest MVP in league history.

What does winning an MVP 2 years ago have to do with right now?

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 03:59 PM
I honestly didn't get to watch the finals much because of work, but I've always had an issue with him chucking when he's got the best jump shooter/scorer in the game on his team.

Watch Durant try and get open on set plays. Many of the times Westbrook chucks a shot is because the frail Durant was not able to get open on a set play, and Westy has to create at the last second.

Seriously, watch that next time OKC goes against a good team. Durant gets open many of the times his number is called, but he also just can't create separation many times, forcing a breakdown in the offense.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 04:00 PM
One is 39 and one is what 25? Yea I think id take Durant too.
I'm not talking about long term, I'm talking if you were building a basketball team right now and you could have prime Durant or prime Nash to try and win an NBA championship, who are you taking?


Would you rather have Harden or Rondo? Because actually, of those 30 GMS, the majority said they would rather have Harden than Westbrook. If you don't believe me you can look it up.
I would rather have Harden, but that isn't the question I posed. And I think Harden showed people how valuable a player he is last night.

rickshaw
11-01-2012, 04:03 PM
So your saying a top 3 player in the NBA is getting a pass right now if he does not perform in the playoffs when he has teammates like Griffin, Jordan, Crawford, Martin, Billups, Bledsoe, Odom. They might be role players but they are all good players. Just a question

Playoff Career Averages.

Paul: 20.5pt 10.1a 5.2reb 2.3stl. 24.9PER, .562 TS%, .174WS/48
Rondo: 14.5pt 9.2a 6reb 2stl. 18.5PER, .487TS%, .131WS/48

Rondo has played with better teammates by far his whole career, in a softer conference. Crawford and Odom weren't on the team last year, and Billups was injured and didn't play in the playoffs.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 04:05 PM
Watch Durant try and get open on set plays. Many of the times Westbrook chucks a shot is because the frail Durant was not able to get open on a set play, and Westy has to create at the last second.

Seriously, watch that next time OKC goes against a good team. Durant gets open many of the times his number is called, but he also just can't create separation many times, forcing a breakdown in the offense.

Will do, I know he had Lebron guarding him so it wasn't gonna be easy. I was mainly referring to the 2011 playoffs when I felt Westbrook shot them out of games against Dallas, should've noted that in there. Durant needs to put some muscle on that frame.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 04:08 PM
Will do, I know he had Lebron guarding him so it wasn't gonna be easy. I was mainly referring to the 2011 playoffs when I felt Westbrook shot them out of games against Dallas, should've noted that in there. Durant needs to put some muscle on that frame.

nah, I mean in general. Watch Durant off the ball getting open. Against lazy defenders, no problem. But watch him against able defenders. He needs the series of picks and others getting into the paint to get his man off him many times.

If Durant could get stronger, without sacrificing his handles or shot, he may be the best perimeter scorer in history.

rockbottom2010
11-01-2012, 04:12 PM
cp3 w/o q

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 04:13 PM
Jordan is awful, Billups was hurt, Crawford and Odom weren't there last season, Martin was a shell of his former self and Bledsoe was good enough to play 12 minutes a game last season. What else you got?

THE OP ASKED ABOUT THIS SEASON. Why would I mention guys like Odom who were not there last season

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 04:13 PM
lmao, Kyrie Irving over Derrick Rose? Talk to me when he becomes the youngest MVP in league history.

OH SNAP, FROM OUT OF THE GRAVES COME THE BULLS FANS.:clap:

knicks=love
11-01-2012, 04:17 PM
You're in the minority here, I guarantee that.

:nod:


See my user title.

Kyrie > all.

kyrie, repping the south orange!


Lmao, please stop. Id take the Clippers supporting cast over Bostons LAST YEAR when Rondo took his team to the ECF and Chris Paul should not have been out the first round if it not were for the Memphis Grizzlies giving the series to LA.

Ray, KG and Pierce were not the same players last year that they were when they won in 2008. That is Rondos team now.

And like i said im done with the CP3 argument, but no way is westbrook better than Rondo.

chris paul's supporting cast in 2011-2012:

1 Chauncey Billups G 6-3 210
12 Eric Bledsoe G 6-1 195
5 Caron Butler F 6-7 228
34 Brian Cook F 6-9 250
30 Reggie Evans F 6-8 245
4 Randy Foye G 6-4 213
15 Ryan Gomes F 6-7 245
32 Blake Griffin F 6-10 251
6 DeAndre Jordan C 6-11 265
23 Travis Leslie G 6-4 205
33 Trey Thompkins F 6-10 245
25 Mo Williams G 6-1 195

rajon rondo's supporting cast in 2011-2012:

20 Ray Allen G 6-5 205
30 Brandon Bass F 6-8 240
0 Avery Bradley G 6-2 180
4 Marquis Daniels G-F 6-6 200
51 Keyon Dooling G 6-3 196
5 Kevin Garnett F 6-11 220
50 Ryan Hollins C 7-0 230
12 JaJuan Johnson F-C 6-10 221
55 E'Twaun Moore F 6-4 191
7 Jermaine O'Neal F-C 6-11 226
11 Sasha Pavlovic G-F 6-8 220
34 Paul Pierce F 6-6 230
28 Mickael Pietrus G-F 6-6 215
54 Greg Stiemsma C 6-11 260
44 Chris Wilcox F 6-10 221
56 Sean Williams F 6-10 235

bolded are HOFers. but i definitely understand why you'd rather have the clippers roster :facepalm: :rolleyes:

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 04:18 PM
I'm not talking about long term, I'm talking if you were building a basketball team right now and you could have prime Durant or prime Nash to try and win an NBA championship, who are you taking?


I would rather have Harden, but that isn't the question I posed. And I think Harden showed people how valuable a player he is last night.

No im not saying that was the question you posted. Im just sayin you might be suprised as to who the Gms would pick. Because Everyone overrates Westbrook but in reality most of the general managers would rather have Harden.

And it really depends on the make up of the team for me. If I a carmelo anthony, paul pierce, lebron james type SF give me Nash and ill take the inferior player that might fit better.

Munkeysuit
11-01-2012, 04:19 PM
Are you kidding me? Rondo? Irving? Westbrook? hahaha! **** CP3 still and will be the best PG in the league for another 3-4 years, get used to it.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 04:19 PM
nah, I mean in general. Watch Durant off the ball getting open. Against lazy defenders, no problem. But watch him against able defenders. He needs the series of picks and others getting into the paint to get his man off him many times.

If Durant could get stronger, without sacrificing his handles or shot, he may be the best perimeter scorer in history.

For sure, I'm going to have to start watching more OKC games other than when he torches the lakers haha.

I definitely agree, that's my only knock on him. If he added strength to go along with his length and ability, wow.

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 04:20 PM
:nod:



kyrie, repping the south orange!



chris paul's supporting cast in 2011-2012:


rajon rondo's supporting cast in 2011-2012:


bolded are HOFers. but i definitely understand why you'd rather have the clippers roster :facepalm: :rolleyes:

Wtf. there hall of famers because of who they were in the past... and O neal did not even play in the playoffs so wtf are you talking about

Mr.SmackYoMama
11-01-2012, 04:22 PM
Its still going to be Rondo.

1st reply and the nail is hit on the head!!!

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 04:23 PM
Does everyone not understand the OP asked who we thought would be the best Pgs come the end of the season? Not RIGHT NOW.

And why are Bulls fans bringing up Derrick Rose? He is hurt and who knows if he will come back this year or even be the same player for a year or 2.

knicks=love
11-01-2012, 04:24 PM
Wtf. there hall of famers because of who they were in the past... and O neal did not even play in the playoffs so wtf are you talking about

when did i ever say anything about the playoffs? it's ridiculous how you would take the clippers roster over the celtics when rondo had 3 teammates who made him the player he is. chris paul made himself a name in this league when he was on the hornets with emeka okafor.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 04:25 PM
It will be CP3 as it has been since at least 2007-2008.

knicks=love
11-01-2012, 04:25 PM
Does everyone not understand the OP asked who we thought would be the best Pgs come the end of the season? Not RIGHT NOW.

And why are Bulls fans bringing up Derrick Rose? He is hurt and who knows if he will come back this year or even be the same player for a year or 2.

because YOU said rondo is better than chris paul which is ridiculous.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 04:27 PM
Does everyone not understand the OP asked who we thought would be the best Pgs come the end of the season? Not RIGHT NOW.

And why are Bulls fans bringing up Derrick Rose? He is hurt and who knows if he will come back this year or even be the same player for a year or 2.

We all understand that. But the fact is, are we to expect Rondo got a jumpshot and can hit free throw's at an average rate now, after 6 years of not doing so?

The biggest point here is, Paul is so easily the best PG in the league, it would take big improvements from guys who are already considered elite. That just isn't common in the slightest.

Munkeysuit
11-01-2012, 04:28 PM
CP3 will eat Rondo for breakfast then isht him out and make a t shirt out of him!
Then he's going to make KG wear that shirt during warm ups.

Munkeysuit
11-01-2012, 04:29 PM
CP3 will slap Westbrook upside the head and turn him into a pogo stick for his son.

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 04:29 PM
because YOU said rondo is better than chris paul which is ridiculous.

I think he will be better come seasons end. If i am wrong, SO BE IT I can admit I am wrong. My main arguement has been with people saying Westbrook is better than Rondo which he is not nor will he be.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 04:30 PM
cmon guys, just look at cp3's defense. he stays infront of his guy majority of the time (granted rose and westy ate him because they were quicker off the dribble), but cp3 is always a threat on both ends of the court.

same argument in 2010, to last year, to this year.

until someone proves they have the whole package, cp3 is the best pg in the nba.

sorry.

Chronz
11-01-2012, 04:31 PM
and to anyone giving the whole rondo plays with hall of famers excuse, ill ask you who carried those hall of famers to the ecf last year and was the best player on the team?
kg

Munkeysuit
11-01-2012, 04:31 PM
CP3 will cross Kyrie Irving up so bad, he'll end up with 80 year old uncle drew ankles.

Uncbball234
11-01-2012, 04:33 PM
Rondo

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 04:34 PM
kg

Rondo with help from KG.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 04:34 PM
CP3 will cross Kyrie Irving up so bad, he'll end up with 80 year old uncle drew ankles.

Leave Uncle Drew out of this :pity:

Chronz
11-01-2012, 04:36 PM
Rondo with help from KG.

How come the Celtics defense went to **** without KG on the floor then? Whereas without Rondo the offense was able to at least produce enough points to actually win a playoff game without him.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 04:37 PM
Rondo with help from KG.

It was KG, he averaged 19/10 while being the defensive anchor.

AndyfromNeptune
11-01-2012, 04:53 PM
By the end of the season, I think Kyrie Irving will prove to be a more efficient scorer than Westbrook and a better offensive player than Chris Paul. Keep in mind who Irving is playing with. Usually, he passes a lot more than he does.

I personally think after Chris Paul's surgeries, Irving will emerge as the best point guard in the NBA.

Just quote me on it and watch and see! =)

AndyfromNeptune
11-01-2012, 04:54 PM
I'm saying Kyrie will be the best by the end of the season--not now.

Keep this thread about Kyrie--not about Rondo.

Rondo is the best pure pg in the league. There's more to being a point guard than just "pure" though..Just ask Allen Iverson when he took the Sixers on his back.

Swashcuff
11-01-2012, 04:55 PM
I'm saying Kyrie will be the best by the end of the season--not now.

Keep this thread about Kyrie--not about Rondo.

Rondo is the best pure pg in the league. There's more to being a point guard than just "pure" though..Just ask Allen Iverson when he took the Sixers on his back to the Finals.

A.I. was the shooting guard when he did that.

As for the thread Chris Paul without question.

AndyfromNeptune
11-01-2012, 04:57 PM
A.I. was the shooting guard when he did that.

As for the thread Chris Paul without question.

I corrected myself. You're right.


As for Chris Paul, I don't doubt CP3 is the best now, but I'm curious because I think it's going to be a lot closer than people think.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 04:59 PM
THE OP ASKED ABOUT THIS SEASON. Why would I mention guys like Odom who were not there last season

Because why would you rip on a guy for not making it to an NBA Finals that hadn't happened yet? That makes no sense.

DanG
11-01-2012, 04:59 PM
I'm saying Kyrie will be the best by the end of the season--not now.

Keep this thread about Kyrie--not about Rondo.

Rondo is the best pure pg in the league. There's more to being a point guard than just "pure" though..Just ask Allen Iverson when he took the Sixers on his back to the Finals.

Just no. Cavs have to make the playoffs for that to happen. Kyries numbers have to look AMAZING to get past CP3, Westbrook, Deron etc. Something like 22-5-10

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 05:02 PM
No im not saying that was the question you posted. Im just sayin you might be suprised as to who the Gms would pick. Because Everyone overrates Westbrook but in reality most of the general managers would rather have Harden.
Lol. Again you fail to get the point, though. I never brought up Harden. You did. I was talking about strictly Rondo and Westbrook.


And it really depends on the make up of the team for me. If I a carmelo anthony, paul pierce, lebron james type SF give me Nash and ill take the inferior player that might fit better.
Wow. And this might be the worst argument yet. So a team with elite SFs would rather have a PG than another SF? Great point. :laugh:

bucketss
11-01-2012, 05:15 PM
Outside top 10:

Tier 1: Curry, Nash, Jennings,

Tier 2: Dragic, Lowry, Lin, Jack

Tier 3: Conley, Teague, Billups

Tier 4: Kidd, Felton, Chalmers, Sessions, Harris

switch lowry and jennings.

RonE Coleman
11-01-2012, 05:24 PM
Lol. Again you fail to get the point, though. I never brought up Harden. You did. I was talking about strictly Rondo and Westbrook.


Wow. And this might be the worst argument yet. So a team with elite SFs would rather have a PG than another SF? Great point. :laugh:

Clearly you cannot read.

knicks=love
11-01-2012, 05:27 PM
Clearly you cannot read.

and you clearly don't know how to evaluate players. rondo over westbrook and cp3? the ****?

AWC713
11-01-2012, 05:29 PM
there are soooo many good point guards.

really hard to say who the "best" is. they all bring different assets to the table.

i think the only players who will be able to say they're the "Best" are CP3 and rando. Perhaps rose if he were healthy.

ManRam
11-01-2012, 05:34 PM
Says who? Rondos won a championship, CP3 has not. Let me know when Chris Pauls done something in the playoffs.

Rondo was the 4th best player on that team. It's a team accomplishment...him winning a ring as the 4th best player doesn't magically make him a better player than he is.

What a laughable argument.

Alayla
11-01-2012, 05:37 PM
Cp3 no doubt

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 05:38 PM
Why didnt op create a poll??????

Alayla
11-01-2012, 05:39 PM
Like I said clearly you cannot read... for the 20th time.. the OP asked about who will be better come years end... I think Rondo will be the best PG come years end, he is already better than westbrook and close to CP3.

So go **** yourself

westbrook> rondo...:facepalm:

ManRam
11-01-2012, 05:39 PM
Does anyone here think that the Celtics would have been WORSE off with Chris Paul the last 5 or so years? I'd love to hear someone try to argue that....

Alayla
11-01-2012, 05:40 PM
there are soooo many good point guards.

really hard to say who the "best" is. they all bring different assets to the table.

i think the only players who will be able to say they're the "Best" are CP3 and rando. Perhaps rose if he were healthy.

sleep on d will and westbrook much?

JordansBulls
11-01-2012, 05:46 PM
It will be Cp3 and Rondo as they will be finished highest in the MVP voting.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
11-01-2012, 05:47 PM
Does anyone here think that the Celtics would have been WORSE off with Chris Paul the last 5 or so years? I'd love to hear someone try to argue that....

Jeah cuz he isn't a true PG.


Seriously, if the Celtics had CP3 they would've probably won at least 3 or 4 championships in the past 5 years.

Alayla
11-01-2012, 05:48 PM
Also im seeing a ton of sleeping on westbrook in this Thread.. easily the 3rd best PG in the game SMH..the only 2 people in the convo with CP3 are willams and westbrook i mean come on people Rose whos hurt? lol RONDO!??? LOL! Get outta here

ManRam
11-01-2012, 05:51 PM
Also im seeing a ton of sleeping on westbrook in this Thread.. easily the 3rd best PG in the game SMH..the only 2 people in the convo with CP3 and willams and westbrook i mean come on people Rose whos hurt? lol RONDO!??? LOL! Get outta here

People are stupid and think that the only way to be a good point guard is if you are a great passer and a poor scorer. They have this archaic definition of what being a "true" point guard is...not realizing how much the game has changed, and that what teams need out of their PGs varies tremendously from team to team.

Hell, Boston could use a scoring PG more now than ever before. Their offense was atrocious last year. They really struggled to score. Westbrook might annoy you because he looks to score, but he was the PG for one of the two best offenses in the NBA last year, and probably would be a better fit on Boston at this point than Rondo is.

Scoring PGs are just as valuable, if not more, than "true" PGs are on most teams. That's why so few "true" PGs have ever won rings.

Alayla
11-01-2012, 05:59 PM
People are stupid and think that the only way to be a good point guard is if you are a great passer and a poor scorer. They have this archaic definition of what being a "true" point guard is...not realizing how much the game has changed, and that what teams need out of their PGs varies tremendously from team to team.

Hell, Boston could use a scoring PG more now than ever before. Their offense was atrocious last year. They really struggled to score. Westbrook might annoy you because he looks to score, but he was the PG for one of the two best offenses in the NBA last year, and probably would be a better fit on Boston at this point than Rondo is.

Scoring PGs are just as valuable, if not more, than "true" PGs are on most teams. That's why so few "true" PGs have ever won rings.

Ya i think people just fail to realize its EASIER to set up other players when your a threat to score yourself.

Baller1
11-01-2012, 05:59 PM
People are stupid and think that the only way to be a good point guard is if you are a great passer and a poor scorer. They have this archaic definition of what being a "true" point guard is...not realizing how much the game has changed, and that what teams need out of their PGs varies tremendously from team to team.

Hell, Boston could use a scoring PG more now than ever before. Their offense was atrocious last year. They really struggled to score. Westbrook might annoy you because he looks to score, but he was the PG for one of the two best offenses in the NBA last year, and probably would be a better fit on Boston at this point than Rondo is.

Scoring PGs are just as valuable, if not more, than "true" PGs are on most teams. That's why so few "true" PGs have ever won rings.

You know the rule ManRam. If you're an elite scorer like Rose or Westy, you can't be a good PG.

It's just common sense.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:02 PM
CP3
Rose
Westbrook
Parker

Those are the top 4

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:05 PM
CP3
Rose
Westbrook
Parker

Those are the top 4

that's good if not for you inexplicably leaving out the 2nd best point in the game Deron willams and putting Rose above westbrook

top 5

Cp3
Willams
Westbrook
Rose
Parker

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:05 PM
CP3
Rose
Westbrook
Parker

Those are the top 4

id dwill played as shhtty as he did last year, that would probably be my top 4.

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:08 PM
id dwill played as shhtty as he did last year, that would probably be my top 4.

Yea its 100% his fault he had literately no help last year sure

ManRam
11-01-2012, 06:09 PM
Ya i think people just fail to realize its EASIER to set up other players when your a threat to score yourself.

Exactly. It's not like Westbrook can't pass (he averaged 8.1 assists the two years before last season), it's just that the team is better when he's attacking and looking to score. There's a reason that offense was so potent last year, and his increased aggression and desire to score was a big reason.

Also, his assists are hurt because he doesn't play with scoring big men or knock down three point specialists.

ManRam
11-01-2012, 06:10 PM
Yea its 100% his fault he had literately no help last year sure

According to basketball prospectus, 11 of the Nets players last year were below replacement level players. He did literally have nothing around him. He should bounce back to elite form. If he doesn't, then he deserves criticism.

SugeKnight
11-01-2012, 06:11 PM
CP3, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook, and probably Parker will still be better. Not a slight on Irving, but I think your underrating how good the point guard position is

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:12 PM
that's good if not for you inexplicably leaving out the 2nd best point in the game Deron willams and putting Rose above westbrook

top 5

Cp3
Willams
Westbrook
Rose
Parker

Based on what exactly? Sure as hell not the last 2 years.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 06:12 PM
It will be Cp3 and Rondo as they will be finished highest in the MVP voting.

Wait.... So are you telling me you think Rondo is the second best PG in the NBA? A Bulls fan is arguing this?

xxplayerxx23
11-01-2012, 06:14 PM
Its true he won it when he wasn't the player he was now but still, what has Chris Paul really done?

If he was so great he would have been able to do more come playoff time. Hes never even been out the second round and even last year the Clippers did not deserve to beat Memphis yet the guy gets a pass every year.

And sorry your an idiot if you think Westbrooks better than Rondo.

Chris Paul is a monster, look at the team he has had around him are you kidding, Rondo isn't in the mans league. Im sorry you're an idiot if you think otherwise. Westbrook is the better player, How is he not? Rondo is so inconsistant, can't shoot, can't hit his FTs, Westy is explosive, he can score and is the better playmaker.

Bullsfan22
11-01-2012, 06:16 PM
Cp3
Rose (when healthy)
Deron Williams
Westbrook
Kyrie Irving
Tony Parker
Rondo

In that exact order. Watching Rondo defend is sickening, he lets players blow by him and tries to poke the ball away. I see why Doc said he needs to do a better job at keeping opposing pg in front of him. I'll take Parker over Rondo and Irving will eclipse him this year.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:16 PM
that's good if not for you inexplicably leaving out the 2nd best point in the game Deron willams and putting Rose above westbrook

top 5

Cp3
Willams
Westbrook
Rose
Parker

that was my list in 2010-2011, but after dwills terrible season last year, imo hes number 3.
if he improves this season, he will be back to 2 on my list.. and if he continues playin like **** than he will drop out of my top 4 and maybe top 5 depending on his performances and the players below him.

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:17 PM
Yea its 100% his fault he had literately no help last year sure

have you seen his wins shared?
cp3 played just fine while in the hornets, as did lebron with cavs, as did wade without bron...

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:18 PM
Based on what exactly? Sure as hell not the last 2 years.

As i stated above its not Williams fault he had piles of crap around him now that he has a decent cast it will show

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:19 PM
1. CP3
2. Westbrook
3. D-will
4. Rose
5. Parker/Rondo

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:23 PM
Didn't know piles of crap led to him shooting below 41% from the field last year?

The 4 I listed have all been superior to DWill the last 2 years. CP3 played with complete trash in NOH and still mops the floor with him.

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:32 PM
have you seen his wins shared?
cp3 played just fine while in the hornets, as did lebron with cavs, as did wade without bron...

The CP3 era hornets where Vastly Superior to the nets the last couple years even without CP3 or Williams on those teams its still a pretty Glaring difference
with Crash only there for 13 games Brooks being to young to make a real difference and Lopez hurt his best help has been Kris Humpries.. id love to see CP3 turn that team into a contender LOL
Last time i checked Okafor and Chandler are not nearly as bad as Humpries
Not to mention for a bit he had Trevor Ariza as well that supporting cast wasnt enough to win with sure But its not as bad as people made it out to be
The same can be said for Wade in 06
Shaq
payton (allthough to old to be a factor)
Morning (about the same)
Antoine walker (actually better that year than the 2 mentioned above)
and halsem and posey who where at least serviceable
Its true that Wade didn't have alot to work with but its still undeniably better than what Williams had

And i still to this day will stand by what i said in 2010
LEBRON HAD A GOOD ENOUGH CAST TO WIN WITH IN HIS LAST YEAR WITH THE CAVS
Jamison
Shaq
varajo
Mo willams
Anthoy parker (was absolutely a lights out shooter)
Hickson (no worse then humpries what does that tell u)
West and gibson where both allright
as well as
Zildreus ilgasukus (could never spell that name right)
With as good as Lebron james is thats more than enough he just quit on that team in the playoffs

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:35 PM
Didn't know piles of crap led to him shooting below 41% from the field last year?

The 4 I listed have all been superior to DWill the last 2 years. CP3 played with complete trash in NOH and still mops the floor with him.

see post above the team CP3 had in NOH was far better than what Willams had in NJ that literately isnt even comparable
and yes when u have no help The defense will pay much more attention to you so naturally your shooting % is going to drop because you will have less clean looks to the basket
its basketball 101 my friend

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:37 PM
You're going off your opinion and using excuses, we have showed you facts. www.basketball-reference.com can be your friend.

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:40 PM
You're going off your opinion and using excuses, we have showed you facts. www.basketball-reference.com can be your friend.

So your really believe the nets team without Williams the past 2 years is better than the CP3 hornets without CP3 tell me do you honestly believe that?

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:42 PM
im sorry man, dwill played horrible but dont worry u dont have to argue for him because if he proves himself this season he will jump back up to where he was in 2010.. no readon to defend him man, the season started!

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:43 PM
You're going off your opinion and using excuses, we have showed you facts. www.basketball-reference.com can be your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_New_Jersey_Nets_season
In case your forgot just how BAD the nets really where before D will

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:46 PM
im sorry man, dwill played horrible but dont worry u dont have to argue for him because if he proves himself this season he will jump back up to where he was in 2010.. no readon to defend him man, the season started!

Thats True His game will speak for itself now that he has help but for the Record im a 76ers fan not a nets fan you posted this in a context that seemed to imply you thought you where speaking to a but hurt nets fan or something so i figured i would set the record straight on that one.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:46 PM
So your really believe the nets team without Williams the past 2 years is better than the CP3 hornets without CP3 tell me do you honestly believe that?

Did you see how bad the hornets were without CP3?

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 06:48 PM
Thats True His game will speak for itself now that he has help but for the Record im a 76ers fan not a nets fan you posted this in a context that seemed to imply you thought you where speaking to a but hurt nets fan or something so i figured i would set the record straight on that one.

not at all lol i was just simply trying to make sure that you dont think i am a dwill hater..

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:50 PM
1. CP3
2. Westbrook
3. D-will
4. Rose
5. Parker/Rondo

This list is much more respectable than the last guys ill give u that the reason i defended him is he left him off the list altogether

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:50 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_New_Jersey_Nets_season
In case your forgot just how BAD the nets really where before D will

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willide01.html

take a look, just shows more that you overrate DWill. His PER was right on average both years, yet everything else was down. He hasn't been better than Rose, Westbrook, and Parker the last 2 years, sorry to tell you.

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:51 PM
Did you see how bad the hornets were without CP3?

Awsner my question Do you think the CP3 era horents are Wrose than the nets the past few years if u take away both stars

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:52 PM
This list is much more respectable than the last guys ill give u that the reason i defended him is he left him off the list altogether

Because he doesn't belong on the list based off of last year. Not too hard to comprehend, is it?

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:52 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willide01.html

take a look, just shows more that you overrate DWill. His PER was right on average both years, yet everything else was down. He hasn't been better than Rose, Westbrook, and Parker the last 2 years, sorry to tell you.

Your a lost cuase dude i just explained to you its HARDER TO PLAY EFFICIENTLY WHEN YOU HAVE NO HELP.
have you ever played a game of basketball in your life? do you have a single idea how the game works? LOL

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:52 PM
Awsner my question Do you think the CP3 era horents are Wrose than the nets the past few years if u take away both stars

Without both players? They both are absolute garbage.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 06:53 PM
Your a lost cuase dude i just explained to you its HARDER TO PLAY EFFICIENTLY WHEN YOU HAVE NO HELP.
have you ever played a game of basketball in your life? do you have a single idea how the game works? LOL

Do you NOT get that CP3 has smoked him in PER while playing for the hornets with absolute garbage? Anything to defend your boy though, right?

Whatever, I'm not sorry my top 4 doesn't meet your criteria of using opinions and excuses.

CP3
Rose(Hurt)
Westbrook
Parker
Top 3 starting the season, it's subject to change of course, but that's the top 3 starting the year.

Kashmir13579
11-01-2012, 06:54 PM
Its still going to be Rondo.

You really believe this?

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:58 PM
Do you NOT get that CP3 has smoked him in PER while playing for the hornets with absolute garbage? Anything to defend your boy though, right?

my boy? im not even a deron willams fan im just a unbiased basketball fan with common sense and as ive said about 10 times now the supporting cast CP3 had with the hornets is better than what willams had with the nets
i dont understand how this is so hard for you to grasp.
did Willams cheat on your mother or something? like damn

You still have yet to explain to me how the horents without CP3 at the time is an equall team to the nets without willams
and the argument isnt that willams is better than CP3 anyways just that hes the very next best thing

Alayla
11-01-2012, 06:59 PM
Without both players? They both are absolute garbage.

but whos better? come on its not hard to figure out.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 07:09 PM
my boy? im not even a deron willams fan im just a unbiased basketball fan with common sense and as ive said about 10 times now the supporting cast CP3 had with the hornets is better than what willams had with the nets
i dont understand how this is so hard for you to grasp.
did Willams cheat on your mother or something? like damn

You still have yet to explain to me how the horents without CP3 at the time is an equall team to the nets without willams
and the argument isnt that willams is better than CP3 anyways just that hes the very next best thing

As am I, none of these pg's play for the team I root for. Going off efficiency a and DWill doesn't make the cut. Bring up the rosters all you want dude, he had the better roster in Utah and was putting up the same PER, so that shows that is a weak argument. He's not the very next best thing, off of efficiency alone last year he doesn't crack the top 5.

Yeah, he cheated on my mom and is a complete scumbag! :rolleyes:

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 07:10 PM
but whos better? come on its not hard to figure out.

The hornets, but DWill had the better roster when was in Utah putting up the same PER.

jrm2054
11-01-2012, 07:10 PM
CP3
Rondo

Alayla
11-01-2012, 08:00 PM
The hornets, but DWill had the better roster when was in Utah putting up the same PER.

Lol yea becuase Per is a 100% accurate way to evaluate a player on its own
I guess Lou Willams and Deron willams where on par with each other last year LOL i mean come on dude

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 08:01 PM
Your a lost cuase dude i just explained to you its HARDER TO PLAY EFFICIENTLY WHEN YOU HAVE NO HELP.
have you ever played a game of basketball in your life? do you have a single idea how the game works? LOL

please explain Kevin Love then.

Deron has not been a top 5 PG the last 2 years. Period.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 08:02 PM
Deron was the 2nd best PG in the league when playing for Jerry. As soon as he runs him off, he falls outside the top 5-6. Coincidence?

Alayla
11-01-2012, 08:10 PM
please explain Kevin Love then.

Deron has not been a top 5 PG the last 2 years. Period.

Kevin love is a Big its much easier to be a factor on your own as a big.
I also belive Kevin love Is the best power forward in the NBA
and this year he has a strong enough cast To prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt
(lots of people still say blake griffin)
Come on hawkeye your normally Very intelligent and most things you say make a **** ton of sense but
you don't compare a big to a small in terms of impact for 1
for 2 its not like the T wolves have done anything with love as there best player yet
and 3 Big or small no madder how good u are its impossible to win alone and basketball will allways be a team game.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2012, 08:13 PM
Kevin love is a Big its much easier to be a factor on your own as a big.

nice attempt dude. You are trying to tell everyone that help matters so much, when its clear that the elite are always elite.

Alayla
11-01-2012, 08:16 PM
Deron was the 2nd best PG in the league when playing for Jerry. As soon as he runs him off, he falls outside the top 5-6. Coincidence?

:rolleyes: Ya okay.
i wont deny that he the system he played in on the jazz was perfect for him but to call him outside of the top 5 or 6.. wow thats just ... you people will see soon as stated earlier his play this year will speak for itself

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 08:17 PM
You've been stumped dude, it's ok to step away and admit you were wrong.

Alayla
11-01-2012, 08:18 PM
nice attempt dude. You are trying to tell everyone that help matters so much, when its clear that the elite are always elite.

As i stated in that same post *atfer editing it*
its not like Kevin love has gone anywhere with the T wolves yet
and seeing as he is the best PF and imo the 2nd best Big in the NBA period i think that only serves to PROVE my point

Alayla
11-01-2012, 08:18 PM
You've been stumped dude, it's ok to step away and admit you were wrong.

Im not wrong if i was i would Like i said i dont have to say a damn word D will will prove it on his own

Alayla
11-01-2012, 08:20 PM
I will stand by my list
CP3
Willams
westbrook
rose
parker
Like it or not this is the top 5 point guards in the game and theres not a damn thing u can do to discredit any of them

WhiteSoxGod
11-01-2012, 08:25 PM
:sigh: Dude, you know I love you, right? Because this list is awful. Rondo better than Rose and Williams? Westbrook not a PG? C'mon man. This is crazy.

This list reflects this year, that's what the OP said. Who knows when Rose will be 100% and how the injury will affect him. I don't trust Deron Williams, I have never been a huge fan. Rondo is more versatile and does things more like a traditional PG. I am of the opinion D-will is slightly overrated. He may not be the scorer but he is better rebounder, passer, and defender in my opinion.

Westbrook isn't a PG we all know and have seen that. He'd be a damn good SG though.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 08:32 PM
This list reflects this year, that's what the OP said. Who knows when Rose will be 100% and how the injury will affect him. I don't trust Deron Williams, I have never been a huge fan. Rondo is more versatile and does things more like a traditional PG. I am of the opinion D-will is slightly overrated.

IMO, Williams is only overrated if you are basing his current abilities on his Utah numbers. Because clearly there's been a huge change from then to now. I'd easily take CP3, Westbrook and a healthy Rose over him at this point. BUT, I think he's still one of the four best PGs in the NBA, and he probably had less help last season than any other top 20 player in the NBA. This season, I expect him to put up Utah type numbers again.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 08:32 PM
I will stand by my list
CP3
Willams
westbrook
rose
parker
Like it or not this is the top 5 point guards in the game and theres not a damn thing u can do to discredit any of them

:laugh:

Rondo the last 2 years>Dwill the last 2 years, but enjoy

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 08:33 PM
Im not wrong if i was i would Like i said i dont have to say a damn word D will will prove it on his own

Fair enough, until then he isn't top 5.

WhiteSoxGod
11-01-2012, 08:36 PM
IMO, Williams is only overrated if you are basing his current abilities on his Utah numbers. Because clearly there's been a huge change from then to now. I'd easily take CP3, Westbrook and a healthy Rose over him at this point. BUT, I think he's still one of the four best PGs in the NBA, and he probably had less help last season than any other top 20 player in the NBA. This season, I expect him to put up Utah type numbers again.

That may be true, this year might tell the tale. I am a big Rondo fan though and I think he has the ability to take over games but has not needed too. When needed he has. Rondo has outplayed D-Will the past couple of years.

I hate Westbrook as a PG. The guy has serious deficiencies at that spot, I think he needs to switch positions for real. I just don't see how you can classify him that way.

bradyoverrated
11-01-2012, 08:40 PM
Rondo

Same as last year

Kashmir13579
11-01-2012, 08:43 PM
Deron will be fine. He isn't the best PG but he has potential to be the second best.

TheNumber37
11-01-2012, 08:44 PM
Chris Paul or Rondo cause they are the only MVP candidates out of the bunch.

Kashmir13579
11-01-2012, 08:46 PM
Its honestly hard for me to rank Rondo. I've seen him play out of his mind in the playoffs. He's hard bodied and experienced. Plays with a chip on his shoulder. Absolutely torches my Knicks.

I think he might be a player where the stats don't paint an accurate picture.

DeRaptor95
11-01-2012, 08:55 PM
Irving WILL be the best but CP3 Rondo and Rose still got it

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 12:42 AM
I'm sorry but you guys are crazy if you think westbrooks better than rondo. The guy is such an enigma. 21 shots to get 18 points and keeps shooting while Durant like always takes less shots and scores more points. Nevermind westbrooks defense which was also pathetic tonight

alexander_37
11-02-2012, 12:59 AM
CP3 Rose

Everyone else.

Alayla
11-02-2012, 01:07 AM
I'm sorry but you guys are crazy if you think westbrooks better than rondo. The guy is such an enigma. 21 shots to get 18 points and keeps shooting while Durant like always takes less shots and scores more points. Nevermind westbrooks defense which was also pathetic tonight

My dude its 1 game I guess the lakers are the wrost team in the NBA
i guess Jrue holiday this year will average better stats than rondo last year
(he got 14 and 11 in his frist game) I guess Harden is the new Scoreing Champ
I guess Hawes is going to lead the league in blocks i guess Parker is the best Clucth shooter in the NBA oh and the mavs are contenders
Oh and the nuggets suck and IGGY is awfull i mean come on people its to small a sample size to judge ANYTHING

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 01:10 AM
My dude its 1 game I guess the lakers are the wrost team in the NBA
i guess Jrue holiday this year will average better stats than rondo last year
(he got 14 and 11 in his frist game) I guess Harden is the new Scoreing Champ
I guess Hawes is going to lead the league in blocks i guess Parker is the best Clucth shooter in the NBA oh and the mavs are contenders
Oh and the nuggets suck and IGGY is awfull i mean come on people its to small a sample size to judge ANYTHING

It's carried over from last year. He's a undersized 2 guard chucker with all the physical tools and no basketball iq whatsoever.

Raph12
11-02-2012, 01:10 AM
CP3, Irving looked like a beast last year, but the idea of him jumping ahead of CP3 in his sophmore year is just unfathomable.

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 01:16 AM
Rondo
Cp3
Rose when healthy
Dwill
Parker
Irving

And if I had him healthy for 1 full year, Nash.

How do people honestly consider that chucker top 5. Does he not understand he has the 3x defending scoring champ on his team when he jacks up terrible shots all game.

Alayla
11-02-2012, 01:18 AM
ROFL .... my dude.. westbrook is a top 3 PG in the game so he had a bad night oh well hope off his junk hes a human being

Alayla
11-02-2012, 01:20 AM
It's carried over from last year. He's a undersized 2 guard chucker with all the physical tools and no basketball iq whatsoever.

No not at all if you think westbrook is a SG you havent wacth enough basketball

Gagan136
11-02-2012, 01:20 AM
CP3, i would have Rose if he was healthy.

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 01:21 AM
ROFL .... my dude.. westbrook is a top 3 PG in the game so he had a bad night oh well hope off his junk hes a human being

Top 3???? Dumbest thing I've heard today.

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 01:22 AM
No not at all if you think westbrook is a SG you havent wacth enough basketball

He plays out of position clearly. Do you watch basketball?

P Harvy
11-02-2012, 01:22 AM
I'd honestly take a healthy Rubio. Remember that last year was only Rubios rookie season and being a Wolves fan and watching the game Rubio has that special chance to be one of the great PGs the league has seen. His shot needs to improve dramatically but he controls the game just about as good as anyone. I'll also add that you don't need a great offensive PG to win games. Just someone who knows how to get everyone involved and work the offense which Rubio does better than Westbrook.

Alayla
11-02-2012, 01:25 AM
He plays out of position clearly. Do you watch basketball?

Every single day of my life
and no Westbrook doesn't play out of position you are just the type that thinks every PG should be A Stockton clone how many championship teams has that produced? thought so.

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 01:26 AM
I'd honestly take a healthy Rubio. Remember that last year was only Rubios rookie season and being a Wolves fan and watching the game Rubio has that special chance to be one of the great PGs the league has seen. His shot needs to improve dramatically but he controls the game just about as good as anyone. I'll also add that you don't need a great offensive PG to win games. Just someone who knows how to get everyone involved and work the offense which Rubio does better than Westbrook.

I see what your saying. I like my point guards to get others involved and run the offense as well. Hopefully Rubio is back to 100 %

Alayla
11-02-2012, 01:27 AM
Top 3???? Dumbest thing I've heard today.

:rolleyes:
Ya and rondo is the best PG in the nba right? lol
as i stated in the thread this started in
Cp3
Dwill
westbrook
rose
parker

asandhu23
11-02-2012, 01:28 AM
Let me guess... Westbrook cost OKC a game...

Dade County
11-02-2012, 01:30 AM
Wild Wild West all day!!!

It's just 1 game...

Greedy22
11-02-2012, 01:32 AM
LOL, I'd take CP3 and a healthy Rose over Westbrook...that's about it.

seikou8
11-02-2012, 01:33 AM
Wild Wild West all day!!!

It's just 1 game...

watch tomorrow
if the heat lose
should the heat trade wade
heat are overrated

if the knicks lose
the knicks should of kepted lin
melo is a chucker

;)

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 01:33 AM
Westbrook is an enigma. Zero basketball IQ

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 01:37 AM
Every single day of my life
and no Westbrook doesn't play out of position you are just the type that thinks every PG should be A Stockton clone how many championship teams has that produced? thought so.

Not true at all. But how many glorified chucker point guards have won championships? If it didn't work for Iverson who was much better than Westbrook is then it ain't gonna work here either.

N3TS
11-02-2012, 02:14 AM
I don't consider him top 3 but he's still one of the top guards in this league.

kyubi256
11-02-2012, 02:16 AM
Well this thread isn't about who is better... It is about who you'd take in your team over Westbrook.

I'd take Rose, CP3, D-Will, Ricky Rubio, Tony Parker, and Kyrie Irving over Westbrook. Do I think they are all better than him? No. But I think that I have a better shot at success with these guys than I do with Westbrook.

He's a great player, but he costs you games also. These guys usually aren't the ones to cost you games, even if they don't win you games either

Hawkeye15
11-02-2012, 02:24 AM
:rolleyes: Ya okay.
i wont deny that he the system he played in on the jazz was perfect for him but to call him outside of the top 5 or 6.. wow thats just ... you people will see soon as stated earlier his play this year will speak for itself

System? This isn't the NFL. He has not been a top 5-6 PG over the past 2 seasons. This is very easy to prove.

You throw his play this year will prove him. I get it. Its a great time of the year, when everyone is 0-0, or near it. Deron has a little help now. Maybe instead of taking nights off, he will play hard and redeem himself.

Hawkeye15
11-02-2012, 02:27 AM
As i stated in that same post *atfer editing it*
its not like Kevin love has gone anywhere with the T wolves yet
and seeing as he is the best PF and imo the 2nd best Big in the NBA period i think that only serves to PROVE my point

What point did you prove? You tried to push the "he doesn't have help, therefore his numbers reflect such" garbage. And I presented you Kevin Love, who was surrounded by complete garbage his first 3 years, and dealt with Rubio getting hurt last year, but despite all of this, put up amazing numbers, both per game, and advanced. How about Chris Paul, when he was in NO? You know, when he carried a team of crap to the playoffs, and we heard an announcer say, "losing Aaron Gray is a big blow for the Hornets".....

Deron has been not good the past 2 years. Blame it on any circumstance you wish.

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 02:53 AM
Well this thread isn't about who is better... It is about who you'd take in your team over Westbrook.

I'd take Rose, CP3, D-Will, Ricky Rubio, Tony Parker, and Kyrie Irving over Westbrook. Do I think they are all better than him? No. But I think that I have a better shot at success with these guys than I do with Westbrook.

He's a great player, but he costs you games also. These guys usually aren't the ones to cost you games, even if they don't win you games either

Good points.

Hawkeye15
11-02-2012, 03:10 AM
Paul
healthy Rose

bout it

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 03:30 AM
Paul
healthy Rose

bout it

Yea, sorry No

thephoenixson28
11-02-2012, 03:34 AM
Skip bayless is that you.

Hawkeye15
11-02-2012, 04:28 AM
Yea, sorry No

I read your tiresome argument for Rondo in the other thread. I apologize if I don't share the same opinion with you in the slightest.

Baller1
11-02-2012, 04:40 AM
CP3 is the only PG clearly better than Westbrook. This thread is a joke.

rhino17
11-02-2012, 05:41 AM
Rose, rondo, and deron as my top 3

sammyvine
11-02-2012, 05:48 AM
Westbrook is the most overrated player in the nba

he is another shot jacking, iversen type player, only difference is that iversen never played with anyone as good as durant.

charles barkley hit the right note when he said westbrook will cost the thunder in the end.

thenaj17
11-02-2012, 06:42 AM
CP3
Deron Williams
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Rondo
Irving

In the next 2 years, i'd expect him to surpass Rondo and Parker.

sammyvine
11-02-2012, 07:13 AM
CP3 is the only PG clearly better than Westbrook. This thread is a joke.

Deron Williams
Tony Parker
Rondo

Swashcuff
11-02-2012, 08:40 AM
Deron Williams
Tony Parker
Rondo

Thanks for making this thread even funnier.

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 09:40 AM
I read your tiresome argument for Rondo in the other thread. I apologize if I don't share the same opinion with you in the slightest.

Couldn't care less about what you think tbh

RonE Coleman
11-02-2012, 09:43 AM
Westbrook offers nothing besides scoring he has the worst basketball iq of all the top point guards, he cannot run an offense and does not make his teammates better.

Greedy22
11-02-2012, 11:30 AM
Deron Williams
Tony Parker
Rondo

:laugh2:


Thanks for making this thread even funnier.

:clap: