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View Full Version : If Jeremy Lamb Becomes on par w/ Harden, Does OKC face same situation?



KB-Pau-DH2012
10-29-2012, 06:04 PM
In 2-3 yrs, if Lamb becomes the equivalent of what James Harden is now (but not a level above that), and he asks for the max just like Harden did this summer, does OKC find themselves in the same bind?


Is it cyclical?


Like would OKC have to get rid of Lamb (ala Harden) and trade him away and get another rookie (ala Rookie Lamb ?)


Mind you that Maynor and Ibaka will probably have heavy contracts to go along with Westy and KD. And also take into account the repeater tax that goes into effect in 2013-2014 and gets progressively worse for luxury tax teams as the yrs go on.


Does this make it even tougher for a OKC-like market to retain a Harden (probably Lamb in the future) ?


I mean as a franchise, where you draw the line and budge and say, "Ok, we are sticking with this guy, we will budge financially, we're not going to keep trading pieces of our core anymore".

heyman321
10-29-2012, 06:08 PM
No, Durant will probably be a Laker somehow because Kupchak convinces them to take a bag of Pau Gasol's beard clippings, so they'll have enough money to sign him.

Gibby23
10-29-2012, 06:09 PM
No, because they have him at a great deal money wise for 5 years. Alot of things can go wrong with the roster and players in a 5 year period, and by that time big contracts like Perk will be gone and they might have a guy that can fill in or take Ibaka's spot in Perry Jones.

John Walls Era
10-29-2012, 06:25 PM
He doesn't have the playmaking ability even though he has similar size to be as good as Harden in that regard. BUT I know what you mean, you're talking about impact and importance I presume? OKC will need to figure it out somehow. Ibaka, Durant and Westbrook is good enough to build around where you can at least make the conference finals year in and year out.

Hawkeye15
10-29-2012, 06:33 PM
They have Lamb on rookie scale for at least 4 years if they want. They won't run into that issue.

MagicBucsSox
10-29-2012, 06:37 PM
In 2-3 yrs, if Lamb becomes the equivalent of what James Harden is now (but not a level above that), and he asks for the max just like Harden did this summer, does OKC find themselves in the same bind?


Is it cyclical?


Like would OKC have to get rid of Lamb (ala Harden) and trade him away and get another rookie (ala Rookie Lamb ?)


Mind you that Maynor and Ibaka will probably have heavy contracts to go along with Westy and KD. And also take into account the repeater tax that goes into effect in 2013-2014 and gets progressively worse for luxury tax teams as the yrs go on.


Does this make it even tougher for a OKC-like market to retain a Harden (probably Lamb in the future) ?


I mean as a franchise, where you draw the line and budge and say, "Ok, we are sticking with this guy, we will budge financially, we're not going to keep trading pieces of our core anymore".


How many James Harden threads are you gonna make? All this chatter over a non damn all star man

Quinnsanity
10-29-2012, 06:44 PM
It's completely cyclical, remember Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka's next contracts will be bigger. At best OKC has to hope to keep hitting on rookies and then dealing them when they want contracts to get other rookies.

203 Uconn LaL
10-29-2012, 06:44 PM
No Perkins contract will be out of the way

DreamShaker
10-29-2012, 06:48 PM
As long as they don't resign Perkins. He is the bad deal/dead weight that cost them their core.

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-29-2012, 07:00 PM
As long as they don't resign Perkins. He is the bad deal/dead weight that cost them their core.

I think they amnesty Perk next summer to re-sign Maynor and Ibaka.

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-29-2012, 07:02 PM
How many James Harden threads are you gonna make? All this chatter over a non damn all star man

then don't watch

JasonJohnHorn
10-29-2012, 07:06 PM
Judging from his stats from college (I didn't get to watch him play) he won't be the kind of all around player that Harden is, but that said, OKC doesn't really need him to be. If he's commanding a max contract by that time, depending on how good he is, they can trade him for a younger sharp shooter and draft picks, like they did with Harden, or they can perhaps look at moving Westbrook or another player for a younger PG. OKC made a shrewd choice in trading Harden, but it was the right move. He has potential to be great, but let's face it, paying a max-deal for a player you have coming off the bench that has a 12 points per game career scoring average... not the smartest move you can make. I thought Harden was only eligible for 10 mill per, so when asked initially if he was wortht he max, i said yes, but then I realized I was mistaken and that he is eligible for 15 million, in which case, no, he's not worth that much! Not for what he does on the court at any rate. OKC is doing what small market teams need to do. Keep their payroll down (reasonable so at least) draft well, and try to load up on draft picks.

JasonJohnHorn
10-29-2012, 07:07 PM
How many James Harden threads are you gonna make? All this chatter over a non damn all star man

THIS IS A JEREMY LAMB THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!:facepalm:

BKLYNpigeon
10-29-2012, 07:09 PM
wouldnt you want this problem if you're the Thunder?

CavsYanksDuke
10-29-2012, 07:10 PM
Clearly, you don't get how awesome rookie contracts are.

topdog
10-29-2012, 07:14 PM
The great thing about it after the 4 years are up is that Lamb would have already seen how it has played out. Assuming (which we shouldn't) that he reaches a similar level, I think he'd be more inclined to accept a little less knowing that Presti will trade him and that it's not that big of a difference in money, but it is in winning.

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-29-2012, 07:26 PM
The great thing about it after the 4 years are up is that Lamb would have already seen how it has played out. Assuming (which we shouldn't) that he reaches a similar level, I think he'd be more inclined to accept a little less knowing that Presti will trade him and that it's not that big of a difference in money, but it is in winning.

And that's where the naiveness in the world of business and professional sports kicks in.

#moneytalks

Sssmush
10-29-2012, 08:52 PM
In 2-3 yrs, if Lamb becomes the equivalent of what James Harden is now (but not a level above that), and he asks for the max just like Harden did this summer, does OKC find themselves in the same bind?


Is it cyclical?


Like would OKC have to get rid of Lamb (ala Harden) and trade him away and get another rookie (ala Rookie Lamb ?)


Mind you that Maynor and Ibaka will probably have heavy contracts to go along with Westy and KD. And also take into account the repeater tax that goes into effect in 2013-2014 and gets progressively worse for luxury tax teams as the yrs go on.


Does this make it even tougher for a OKC-like market to retain a Harden (probably Lamb in the future) ?


I mean as a franchise, where you draw the line and budge and say, "Ok, we are sticking with this guy, we will budge financially, we're not going to keep trading pieces of our core anymore".


yes that is some good points.

Part of what is happening to OKC is just coincidence. For instance, if we assume that Harden is not overrated, and that Lamb could be just as good or even better, then OKC's problem essentially is that their role players they are trying to develop are actually more in the "star" category, which doesn't fit their financial model.

They are trying to win with a two-superstar model, but then the picture gets distorted because they also have two high priced bigs, and then also one of their role players (Harden) was performing more like a star, even to the point that commentators were just calling Durant-Harden-Westbrook a "big three."

This could happen again with Lamb, there's no doubt.

What OKC really needs to do, in order to stay under $100M salary+luxury, besides getting a cheaper center than Perkins maybe, is to develop role players the way the Lakers develop role players.

They need good quality low-first and second round draft picks, like Ebanks, Ariza, etc, that they can develop and keep for a reasonable price, who won't be hot commodities in free agency. Sefalosha fits that mold.

For this year, though, the next two or three years, they are in great shape with Lamb (and Martin thrown into the mix as well, plus two extra first round picks).

Chronz
10-29-2012, 09:01 PM
There will always be someone willing to trade for that kind of talent so yes. Unless WB+Durant take a paycut with Perkins off the books.

Chronz
10-29-2012, 09:03 PM
yes that is some good points.

Part of what is happening to OKC is just coincidence. For instance, if we assume that Harden is not overrated, and that Lamb could be just as good or even better, then OKC's problem essentially is that their role players they are trying to develop are actually more in the "star" category, which doesn't fit their financial model.

They are trying to win with a two-superstar model, but then the picture gets distorted because they also have two high priced bigs, and then also one of their role players (Harden) was performing more like a star, even to the point that commentators were just calling Durant-Harden-Westbrook a "big three."

This could happen again with Lamb, there's no doubt.

What OKC really needs to do, in order to stay under $100M salary+luxury, besides getting a cheaper center than Perkins maybe, is to develop role players the way the Lakers develop role players.

They need good quality low-first and second round draft picks, like Ebanks, Ariza, etc, that they can develop and keep for a reasonable price, who won't be hot commodities in free agency. Sefalosha fits that mold.

For this year, though, the next two or three years, they are in great shape with Lamb (and Martin thrown into the mix as well, plus two extra first round picks).
If the Lakers were great at developing players, where are they? Lakers lost Ariza to Morey as well. Ebanks sucks

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-29-2012, 09:22 PM
There will always be someone willing to trade for that kind of talent so yes. Unless WB+Durant take a paycut with Perkins off the books.

And here's the thing, KD is so box office that he shouldn't have to take a pay cut, and this is another reason why I think a franchise tag would have been so nice to implement in this new CBA.

TrueFan420
10-30-2012, 12:11 AM
As long as they don't resign Perkins. He is the bad deal/dead weight that cost them their core.

they need him now more than ever with dwight in LA... look for him to stay with them but in a more cap friendly deal.

TrueFan420
10-30-2012, 12:14 AM
yes that is some good points.

Part of what is happening to OKC is just coincidence. For instance, if we assume that Harden is not overrated, and that Lamb could be just as good or even better, then OKC's problem essentially is that their role players they are trying to develop are actually more in the "star" category, which doesn't fit their financial model.

They are trying to win with a two-superstar model, but then the picture gets distorted because they also have two high priced bigs, and then also one of their role players (Harden) was performing more like a star, even to the point that commentators were just calling Durant-Harden-Westbrook a "big three."

This could happen again with Lamb, there's no doubt.

What OKC really needs to do, in order to stay under $100M salary+luxury, besides getting a cheaper center than Perkins maybe, is to develop role players the way the Lakers develop role players.

They need good quality low-first and second round draft picks, like Ebanks, Ariza, etc, that they can develop and keep for a reasonable price, who won't be hot commodities in free agency. Sefalosha fits that mold.

For this year, though, the next two or three years, they are in great shape with Lamb (and Martin thrown into the mix as well, plus two extra first round picks).

Lakers and develop players should not be in the same sentence. They import players via free agency.

AWC713
10-30-2012, 12:25 AM
I mean this is the obviously type of problem they would want to encounter.

They can deal with it in 4 years. Who know what the landscape will be like in 4 years? They have an amnesty to work as well.

Im a Rockets fan and I was VERY high on Jeremy Lamb. He's a great player. Very smooth, never makes mistakes. Seems very mature.

Now, I don't think he had the pull that Harden does RIGHT NOW to get good players RIGHT NOW. He may not even develop. So i see why the Rockets went with Harden right now at 23 versus what Lamb could do in 3 years.

That said, OKC got a great deal. K-Mart will flourish in his new role.

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-30-2012, 02:13 AM
I mean this is the obviously type of problem they would want to encounter.

They can deal with it in 4 years. Who know what the landscape will be like in 4 years? They have an amnesty to work as well.

Im a Rockets fan and I was VERY high on Jeremy Lamb. He's a great player. Very smooth, never makes mistakes. Seems very mature.

Now, I don't think he had the pull that Harden does RIGHT NOW to get good players RIGHT NOW. He may not even develop. So i see why the Rockets went with Harden right now at 23 versus what Lamb could do in 3 years.

That said, OKC got a great deal. K-Mart will flourish in his new role.


Even if KMart doesn't work out, they can treat him as an expiring and get that cap space to resign Maynor and Ibaka.

Sssmush
10-30-2012, 07:27 AM
If the Lakers were great at developing players, where are they? Lakers lost Ariza to Morey as well. Ebanks sucks

Ok, well Ebanks maybe isn't such a great example, but the Lakers have historically developed players.

Just from recently, Derek Fisher is an example, as well as for instance Elden Campbell, Jordan Farmar, Sasha Vujacic, Luke Walton, Ronny Turiaf, Trevor Ariza, Von Wafer, Devean George, Stanislav Medvedenko.

I'm not saying those are the best players in the league, or that they had the most stellar Laker careers or stayed here their entire career, just pointing out that these are the kind of players OKC needs, guys who can play a role and get some good minutes in, but won't necessarily become the hottest free agent on the market and break the bank, because OKC is on a budget.

And in any case, the Lakers have clearly always been a team that developed top notch talent. Magic Johnson, Byron Scott, Kobe, Bynum, Vlade, James Worthy, Doug Christie, Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones...

the list could go on and on and on. And not just the homegrown stars the Lakers develop. So many players, their stock goes way up after playing a few seasons, or even just one camp, in Los Angeles, and they go on to have good careers elsewhere in the NBA also.

but I wasn't trying to get in a ****ing contest about the Lakers being a good franchise or whatever, I was just pointing out that OKC needs some cheap workable role players. They keep spiking it big in the draft and that's why they have these hard choices.

Think about it: if they were really going all out, they could've found a way to keep Harden (obviously) but they also could've found a way to get Jeremy Lamb. AND they already have Perry III. So in three years, they could've wound up with

Durant -- max
WB --- max
Harden --- max

+

Lamb -- maybe all star? maybe worth close to max?
Ibaka -- maybe all star? maybe worth close to max?

+

Perry -- coveted and expensive restricted young free agent big ?
Perkins -- coveted and expensive big starting center


I mean, they could've wound up with like 5 All Stars if Lamb and Ibaka really improve, and then maybe Perry is one of the hotter young big prospects by then and Perkins is maybe the 5th best center in the league or something. No way OKC can afford all that.

gwrighter
10-30-2012, 07:41 AM
This is fairly presumptuous.

Heediot
10-30-2012, 07:44 AM
I think they amnesty Perk next summer to re-sign Maynor and Ibaka.

Bro Ibaka agreed to a new deal a while ago.

Sssmush
10-30-2012, 07:33 PM
This is fairly presumptuous.

Of course. And I will make it worse by presuming that you are referring to my post.

However, all I'm saying is that, for whatever reason, OKC keeps getting all this top notch draft talent even though they are already stacked.

I mean, adding Harden at #3 in the draft to Durant and Westbrook is just ridiculous. The highest Laker draft pick in the past ten years was #10, and that was Andrew Bynum whom the Lakers had to patiently develop for years and years to get to all star level.

So, for salary reasons, they choose to let go of Harden, but they immediately replace him with Lamb, drafted at #12, who should easily have been a lottery pick. And they already had Perry III an absolute steal at #28.

If they want to follow the superstar Kobe/Shaq or Lebron/Wade model or whatever, they gotta realize they need some players, maybe seasoned veterans, who will do their roles. You can either bring up low draft picks, or else sign older vets who are hunting for a ring. Rather than these hot young prospects who are going to finish 3 years and then be looking to get paid, and then two years later looking for the big free agent contract of their career.

For instance Ray Allen to Miami. Miami didn't have to pay Ray Allen $15M a year, and they don't have to sign him for 10 years either. All those kind of vets and role players is what OKC needs, otherwise OP is right, OKC will be repeating this same scenario.

basically it just shows the unfairness of the draft system with the weighted lotto, because OKC gets one good lottery pick (Harden) and can keep trading that value forward and recycling for younger talent every few years (say in 3 years trade Lamb for the 2015 #7 pick or whatever, and then three years later trade that player maybe for the #3 pick in the 2018 draft, or whatever).

that's one reason why every team should have some ping pong balls in the draft yo

sfattahian
10-30-2012, 07:53 PM
Need 2 players for all-PSD fantasy league on yahoo tonight live draft 8:45 pm PST.

Yahoo league ID: 87344
Password: letmein

Anybody welcome.

mrblisterdundee
10-30-2012, 10:48 PM
They will face the same situation, because they're a small market team unwilling to go into luxury tax and Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka will have the big deals.