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View Full Version : Will James Harden and Jeremy Lin fit will together?



KnicksorBust
10-28-2012, 09:06 AM
There are a lot of issues that are coming up after this trade:

Who won the trade?
How does this effect OKC's title chances?
Can Houston make the playoffs?
Is Houston done making moves?
etc.

I would like to see, and also get it on the record, how people feel this backcourt will work together?

KnicksorBust
10-28-2012, 09:09 AM
Let's not forget that both are very questionable defensive players and both like to run the offense...

xxplayerxx23
10-28-2012, 09:12 AM
Okc
Not much tbh, I still think they can win the west.
Houston can but I think the will fall short, so many west teams but wouldn't be surprised if they were a 7 or 8 seed.
I think there done for now
I think Hardnen and Lin aren't the perfect combo but I do think they make it work and play well on offense but their defense is a huge ?

NFLNBA
10-28-2012, 09:16 AM
Let's not forget that both are very questionable defensive players and both like to run the offense...

Harden plays very good defense dude.

AYozzy
10-28-2012, 09:50 AM
It's going to be interesting when Teams gameplan for Harden now as he has no KD/WB to take over a game... Personally I don't think Lin is capable of carrying a team

Rockets will be a .330 win team

Sly Guy
10-28-2012, 09:56 AM
I think both teams lose in this trade. Harden may have benefited from westy and durant being on the same roster and might flop as more of a focal point, where the thunder lost the third option on a team which already relies heavily on a small number of scorers.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-28-2012, 09:58 AM
wow im just trying to imagine how many open looks martin will get...

dude is solid from the 3 point line.
last year half of his shots were from the 3 and he shot 35%, year before he attempted over 450 3's, and shot like 38%.

this should be interesting.

Chavacano
10-28-2012, 10:18 AM
One favors his left while the other his right so I'd say they complement each other very well. :D

StarvingKnick22
10-28-2012, 10:25 AM
If Lin can stay healthy they can be a scary team...

Tmath
10-28-2012, 10:28 AM
Harden plays very good defense dude.

NBA took his best defensive asset away(flopping)

BALLER R
10-28-2012, 10:41 AM
Should be interesting because both players are now on a team where they are the focal point. It's going to be interesting to see if both of them can adjust to defensive's focusing in on them. Both should start to see a lot of double teams this year and for a player like harden he wouldn't be getting a lot of open looks. I do think he will be fine but I think there are gonna be a bunch of game where he plays like he did in the NBA Finals.

RLundi
10-28-2012, 10:50 AM
No, Lin is junk. Sorry, but that's just the truth. He will be exposed this year, and it's gonna be UGLY.

ewing
10-28-2012, 10:55 AM
Yes. They are both old school guards. Play making guards. Lin is not a true PG and Harden will take the pressuring of needing to be one off Lin. Both guys will handle and just look to make plays. It gives Houston two playing making guards that love to get up and down the floor. I expect a lot free willing offensive from this group.

theheatles
10-28-2012, 12:01 PM
They won't make the playoffs this year...west is too competitive with these teams being better imo

Nuggets
Thunder
Clippers
Lakers
Spurs
Grizzlies
TWolves
Mavs
Blazers
Jazz


Rockets are young and exciting but need time to click

torocan
10-28-2012, 12:21 PM
They fit very well, alot better than Lin and K-Mart.

Harden did more than his share of ball sharing with Westbrook.
Lin played alot of combo guard/off the ball at Harvard.

They both will do well in McHale's fast, uptempo, ball sharing, PnR offense (they're both good in the PnR).

They both demand double teams, opening the lane that both are good exploiting.

Harden is a solid jump shooter, making drive and kicks for catch and shoots very effective.

They're both good passers, so ball stagnation won't be an issue.

Not to mention, Harden plays best off the left side and Lin plays best off the right, which means that it's hard for teams to pack one side too heavily against Lin and vice verse.

It's about a good a match as you can expect in terms of available All Stars.

Cromedome
10-28-2012, 12:45 PM
The Rockets did the right thing by picking up someone who can handle the ball and pressure.

KnicksR4Real
10-28-2012, 12:52 PM
Really Lin is not that good.

YoungOne
10-28-2012, 12:52 PM
I think both teams lose in this trade. Harden may have benefited from westy and durant being on the same roster and might flop as more of a focal point, where the thunder lost the third option on a team which already relies heavily on a small number of scorers.

kevin martin is no 3rd option???

Losoway
10-28-2012, 01:47 PM
James harden is gonna average at least 25 a game book it

THE MTL
10-28-2012, 01:49 PM
I think the only person who won the trade was Kevin Martin. I think Lin and Harden can exist together fine, but neither player is a franchise player.

Chill_Will_24
10-28-2012, 02:00 PM
Honestly i feel that Kev Martin is not a drop off from Harden. Martin is so underrated. You give Martin all the looks that Harden got during the finals and the series might have turned out different.

They are also loaded with talented youth. Am i the only one outraged that Perry Jones fell to them? Now they have Lamb too!? Damn the Thunder are the modern day Spurs with how they are run.

RLundi
10-28-2012, 02:02 PM
Really Lin is not that good.

I agree, but were you saying this last season? :laugh2:

blastmasta26
10-28-2012, 02:12 PM
I think Lin and Harden will be a good backcourt duo in some time. There will be a bit of an adjustment for both players, particularly Harden, but I see it working out. Harden won't have the same freedom he did in OKC as Lin will presumably run the offense, but if Harden is used as a secondary ball handler, Lin's turnovers can be limited. Defensively, they won't be strong, but they should improve.

The Rockets aren't competing this season, and they will take their time getting the chemistry between Lin and Harden to develop.

b@llhog24
10-28-2012, 02:16 PM
Not sure what to expect from Lin. But Harden is a stud in every form of offense imaginable. He's unquestionably the secondary ball handler on this team and will probably be their closer. Aside from the Finals he's was money in the closing minutes. I think he even lead the Nba in 4th quarter free throw attempts but you can check me on that.

Daunter
10-28-2012, 02:18 PM
James harden is gonna average at least 25 a game book it

lmfao Who do you think he is?Kobe?

Hawkeye15
10-28-2012, 02:24 PM
Right now, Houston won this trade. If Lamb turns into a great player, OKC will have at least evened it.

Houston is probably still not strong enough to make the playoffs with this move alone.

OKC has now dropped to 3rd best team, and I may even bump a healthy Clippers above them now, unless Kevin Martin mans up and has a big bounce back year after last seasons atrocious outing.

flea
10-28-2012, 02:35 PM
I like the trade for both teams. The picks will allow OKC to find some big man depth, which is really all they need. Their backcourt is going to be fine, and I'm high on Jeremy Lamb. Harden's a very nice player but I don't think OKC will miss him as much as some may think. K-Mart won't be able to handle Harden's 2nd unit role as primary ballhandler but OKC still has Maynor for that. Plus, I think OKC will start using Durant as a ballhandler more this season after last season's improvement in his distribution skills (he's not great but miles better than he was a few years ago).

For Houston they've got a nice combo with Parsons and Harden. I don't think Lin will amount to an all-star but he'll be serviceable. They do give up a bunch of picks, and their frontcourt is still questionable, but they've got 2 pieces to build around. Harden is not a good defender but he's very young and it's rare that NBA players are good defensively at such a young age unless that was their role in college (even then those guys usually take a while to develop). I don't see Harden ever being an elite defender because he's just not athletic or long enough to truly hang with elite scorers in this league. However, he's a very intelligent player who generally finds ways to make up for what he lacks in preparation. He certainly won't be a liability, especially since Parsons will be guarding the primary scoring option for most teams.

RC3
10-28-2012, 02:38 PM
Lol if Lin doesn't play we'll, all the blame won't be directed to him. It would be all Harden's fault. :p

Reyes6
10-28-2012, 02:49 PM
I'm not sure why people keep saying Martin is not a dropoff from Harden. He gets destroyed on defense, isn't getting to the line anymore, and is injury prone. On 2k it might not be a huge dropoff, but Harden is a huge upgrade over Martin.

Vinylman
10-28-2012, 03:15 PM
Right now, Houston won this trade. If Lamb turns into a great player, OKC will have at least evened it.

Houston is probably still not strong enough to make the playoffs with this move alone.

OKC has now dropped to 3rd best team, and I may even bump a healthy Clippers above them now, unless Kevin Martin mans up and has a big bounce back year after last seasons atrocious outing.

Don't necessarily disagree with you on who won the trade but to me that isn't the real question

If you think about it the rockets will again be a 9-10 seed which means they will be getting a mid teens pick next year (basically worthless in a thin draft).

Lets say that getting Harden DOESN'T get them that big splash FA they are looking for (D12 or Bynum)... Lets say that the normal progression of young players occurs... what are they really then? A 4-5 seed?

To me this move means nothing unless they get a big splash FA... They will have improved and got younger but they will hardly be contenders

what say you?

Chavacano
10-28-2012, 03:26 PM
Don't necessarily disagree with you on who won the trade but to me that isn't the real question

If you think about it the rockets will again be a 9-10 seed which means they will be getting a mid teens pick next year (basically worthless in a thin draft).

Lets say that getting Harden DOESN'T get them that big splash FA they are looking for (D12 or Bynum)... Lets say that the normal progression of young players occurs... what are they really then? A 4-5 seed?

To me this move means nothing unless they get a big splash FA... They will have improved and got younger but they will hardly be contenders

what say you?

^^ I agree. Either hit big and be possible contenders or be mediocre for a long period of time (see: Hawks).

Ebbs
10-28-2012, 03:28 PM
They will miss the playoffs and regret this move

Munkeysuit
10-28-2012, 03:47 PM
Completely shocked at the timing of this, but I kind of knew they would have traded him sooner or later...leaning more towards later of course. I'll be honest with you guys, what OKC got from the trade is not as bad as it seems in the long term, but what perplexes me is that this team was in "win now" mode ...it's just so shocking!
I don't know much about Presti, but from what I hear is that he is not one to be shy to pull the trigger on any deal, OKC definitely didn't get better, but they still remain in the playoff picture, not so sure about the Finals picture anymore.
Houston just leap-frogged a few teams and could possibly be in the hunt should they look to add more veteran depth, Lin and Harden should fit well, Harden can even run the point too! Harden starting on a team like Houston's current squad will definitely get him into the All Star game as well.

Supreme LA
10-28-2012, 04:23 PM
It doesn't seem like a good fit but I could be wrong.

mightybosstone
10-28-2012, 04:36 PM
They will miss the playoffs and regret this move

You think the Rockets will?

Anyone who thinks the Rockets lost this deal either (A) Didn't watch the train wreck that was Kevin Martin last season, (B) Is seriously overrating Jeremy Lamb, (C) Is seriously overrating the Toronto pick in a weak draft and/or (D) Has no ****ing clue what they're talking about.

Will the Rockets make the playoffs? I have no idea, and I honestly don't care. But this franchise is in a FAR greater position than they were yesterday and over the last three seasons and they're about to lock up one of the 20-25 best players in the NBA and one of the 10 best wing players in basketball for five seasons.

I'm beyond ecstatic.

jam
10-28-2012, 05:04 PM
Houston's backcourt is a JOKE.

How could Morey have been stupid enough NOT to pursue superstars like DWI Kidd, Fat Felton and 35 year old Pringles?

Knicks for the championship!!!


There are a lot of issues that are coming up after this trade:

Who won the trade?
How does this effect OKC's title chances?
Can Houston make the playoffs?
Is Houston done making moves?
etc.

I would like to see, and also get it on the record, how people feel this backcourt will work together?

MrfadeawayJB
10-28-2012, 06:09 PM
NBA took his best defensive asset away(flopping)

this

kblo247
10-28-2012, 06:19 PM
Like this deal for OKC more than Houston

OKC gets Martin to come of the bench and he is a better and more proven scorer versus staring caliber guys. People rewrote history way too much here. Harden was a a bum on offense and defense these playoffs vs Kobe, Ron, Wade, and Bron statistically shot in the low 30s and gave up well over a point per possession to them one on one. He beat up on benches and had two damn good series vs Dallas and SA when Jack was on Durant and Marion/Kidd on KD and Russ

OKC got themselves a better proven scorer who doesn't need to handle the ball so he can thrive off Russ. Likewise since he's expiring he is a chip they can use to call Utah who has a big man plethora with Al or Paul likely being likely being moved. Those picks will also be good and Lamb is locked in for years cheap which means you have a thabo and KD backup as well as wiggle room to sign Maynor back up for less bc of his injury

Houston might as well call their back court BBQ chicken because they gon get eaten alive nightly. Two guys that can't defend, overly ball dominant. A pg who got a mil for every good game he's had, and is turnover prone as all hell which will be magnified since he doesn't have the lift to finish now. SG with no right hand and the inability to get where he wants like odom or Manu vs real talent, no post up skills, no mid whatsoever, and the flopping and Reggie miller rules.

They grossly overpay with a poison pill deal in Lin and maxing out a guy in Harden who shouldn't get over 10m per because he isn't proven at all vs starting talent by himself since he played 80% of the time with Russ and/or KD. Top that off with paying big money for a C in Asik who has never played 15mins per game a full year and you get one *** tasting offseason for the rockets.

mrblisterdundee
10-28-2012, 06:36 PM
In general, James Harden and Jeremy Lin will work well together. They can both score and distribute the ball fairly well. Lin's 6'3" and 200 pounds, and Harden's 6'5" and 220 pounds - they're big enough. They aren't a particularly good defensive back court, but they're not particularly bad either.
The Rockets obviously got the better of the deal, because they had the cap space to sign Harden. They now have a very good, up-and-coming back court.

mightybosstone
10-28-2012, 06:47 PM
People rewrote history way too much here. Harden was a a bum on offense and defense these playoffs vs Kobe, Ron, Wade, and Bron statistically shot in the low 30s and gave up well over a point per possession to them one on one. He beat up on benches and had two damn good series vs Dallas and SA when Jack was on Durant and Marion/Kidd on KD and Russ
One postseason does not make a career.


OKC got themselves a better proven scorer who doesn't need to handle the ball so he can thrive off Russ.
More proven? Debatable. Better? Hardly. Harden was by far the better scorer and shooter last season and it was not close.


Likewise since he's expiring he is a chip they can use to call Utah who has a big man plethora with Al or Paul likely being likely being moved. Those picks will also be good and Lamb is locked in for years cheap which means you have a thabo and KD backup as well as wiggle room to sign Maynor back up for less bc of his injury
This is true. But why trade your best trade chip in order to get another, weaker trade chip? How does that make any sense whatsoever? Also, you're assuming that Lamb will be a worthy backup, but he has yet to prove himself in the NBA. At this point, he's extremely raw.


Houston might as well call their back court BBQ chicken because they gon get eaten alive nightly. Two guys that can't defend, overly ball dominant. A pg who got a mil for every good game he's had, and is turnover prone as all hell which will be magnified since he doesn't have the lift to finish now. SG with no right hand and the inability to get where he wants like odom or Manu vs real talent, no post up skills, no mid whatsoever, and the flopping and Reggie miller rules.
Yeahhh.... I'm going to go ahead and agree to disagree. Has Lin been turnover prone and had issues defensively? Yes. But he's only going to get better and he was asked to completely take over New York's offense last season with Melo off the floor. He was significantly less turnover prone during the preseason. I also disagree that Harden can't create for himself. His efficiency proves otherwise.


They grossly overpay with a poison pill deal in Lin and maxing out a guy in Harden who shouldn't get over 10m per because he isn't proven at all vs starting talent by himself since he played 80% of the time with Russ and/or KD. Top that off with paying big money for a C in Asik who has never played 15mins per game a full year and you get one *** tasting offseason for the rockets.
This is all just flat out ignorant. Asik killed it in the preseason and Lin will excel in an offense that benefits point guards. Throw in a legit, efficient scoring wing and you've got a team that should compete for a playoff spot.

jam
10-28-2012, 06:50 PM
You mad? LOL!


Like this deal for OKC more than Houston

OKC gets Martin to come of the bench and he is a better and more proven scorer versus staring caliber guys. People rewrote history way too much here. Harden was a a bum on offense and defense these playoffs vs Kobe, Ron, Wade, and Bron statistically shot in the low 30s and gave up well over a point per possession to them one on one. He beat up on benches and had two damn good series vs Dallas and SA when Jack was on Durant and Marion/Kidd on KD and Russ

OKC got themselves a better proven scorer who doesn't need to handle the ball so he can thrive off Russ. Likewise since he's expiring he is a chip they can use to call Utah who has a big man plethora with Al or Paul likely being likely being moved. Those picks will also be good and Lamb is locked in for years cheap which means you have a thabo and KD backup as well as wiggle room to sign Maynor back up for less bc of his injury

Houston might as well call their back court BBQ chicken because they gon get eaten alive nightly. Two guys that can't defend, overly ball dominant. A pg who got a mil for every good game he's had, and is turnover prone as all hell which will be magnified since he doesn't have the lift to finish now. SG with no right hand and the inability to get where he wants like odom or Manu vs real talent, no post up skills, no mid whatsoever, and the flopping and Reggie miller rules.

They grossly overpay with a poison pill deal in Lin and maxing out a guy in Harden who shouldn't get over 10m per because he isn't proven at all vs starting talent by himself since he played 80% of the time with Russ and/or KD. Top that off with paying big money for a C in Asik who has never played 15mins per game a full year and you get one *** tasting offseason for the rockets.

D-Leethal
10-28-2012, 07:01 PM
I like the deal for both teams. OKC got a little more depth and a kid who I think is a stud in Jeremy Lamb. Kevin Martin has less potential but isn't a major downgrade from Harden, and may be a better fit in that team because hes great off the ball, Harden needs the ball to do his thing.

Houston got themselves a nice young core, a team fans can be excited about.

KnicksorBust
10-28-2012, 08:58 PM
Houston's backcourt is a JOKE.

How could Morey have been stupid enough NOT to pursue superstars like DWI Kidd, Fat Felton and 35 year old Pringles?

Knicks for the championship!!!

Reported for baiting.

KnicksorBust
10-28-2012, 09:01 PM
You think the Rockets will?

Anyone who thinks the Rockets lost this deal either (A) Didn't watch the train wreck that was Kevin Martin last season, (B) Is seriously overrating Jeremy Lamb, (C) Is seriously overrating the Toronto pick in a weak draft and/or (D) Has no ****ing clue what they're talking about.

Will the Rockets make the playoffs? I have no idea, and I honestly don't care. But this franchise is in a FAR greater position than they were yesterday and over the last three seasons and they're about to lock up one of the 20-25 best players in the NBA and one of the 10 best wing players in basketball for five seasons.

I'm beyond ecstatic.

Nice perspective from a Rockets fan. I wish every team had at least 2 posters who could do what this post just did to make threads better.

You are one breakthrough PF away from being legit.

203 Uconn LaL
10-28-2012, 09:11 PM
I dont see it as a problem. Lin isn't ready to be the top option on any team but idk if harden is either. They'll be ok but won't make the playoffs

mightybosstone
10-28-2012, 09:16 PM
Nice perspective from a Rockets fan. I wish every team had at least 2 posters who could do what this post just did to make threads better.

You are one breakthrough PF away from being legit.

Thank you, good sir. And to answer your question that the thread poses, I do think Lin and Harden fit well together. They aren't an ideal match, but neither were Westbrook and Harden, and those two thrived together on the floor. Both players can penetrate to get to the rim and create for other players, but while Harden does well with the ball in his hand, he also clearly excels as a spot shooter with other players doing the distributing. Hence, his insanely high efficiency and 3-point shooting numbers last season. Defensively, I don't think either guy is exceptional, but I do think they both have the skills to be good defenders and with guys like Parsons and Asik in the starting lineup, they won't have to be elite on that end of the floor.

Daze9900
10-28-2012, 09:44 PM
Harden plays very good defense dude.

Flopping isn't very good defense

smith&wesson
10-28-2012, 09:45 PM
harden has proven he can fit well with other star players.

lin hasnt. we'll have to wait and see how they mesh together.

elledaddy
10-28-2012, 10:04 PM
They fit very well, alot better than Lin and K-Mart.

Harden did more than his share of ball sharing with Westbrook.
Lin played alot of combo guard/off the ball at Harvard.

They both will do well in McHale's fast, uptempo, ball sharing, PnR offense (they're both good in the PnR).

They both demand double teams, opening the lane that both are good exploiting.

Harden is a solid jump shooter, making drive and kicks for catch and shoots very effective.

They're both good passers, so ball stagnation won't be an issue.

Not to mention, Harden plays best off the left side and Lin plays best off the right, which means that it's hard for teams to pack one side too heavily against Lin and vice verse.

It's about a good a match as you can expect in terms of available All Stars.


Come on man, Lin DEMANDS a double team? He had no ****ing clue what to do when Miami simply trapped pick and roll.


And Lin doesnt " play best off the right" because he has a hard time going left which is why he stays in the middle of the floor or starts on the left so he can go right.

torocan
10-28-2012, 11:53 PM
Come on man, Lin DEMANDS a double team? He had no ****ing clue what to do when Miami simply trapped pick and roll.

How many teams defend like Miami? Oh right. One. Every other team pretty much either camps the paint or starts sending out double teams.

I've watched just about every game Lin has played with the Knicks and Rockets. He gets double teamed more often than you think.


And Lin doesnt " play best off the right" because he has a hard time going left which is why he stays in the middle of the floor or starts on the left so he can go right.

You might want to rewatch the Knicks games. One of his favorite plays is to start on the right side high post and get a partially closed pick. The other one is running off the top of the key. And then other times he starts on the right side 3 point line.

He starts on the RIGHT side far more often than the left.

rockbottom2010
10-29-2012, 11:24 AM
yes because this is hardens team at the end of the day

aztr0
10-29-2012, 11:30 AM
They'll fit. Harden played with Westbrook where he rarely needed to handle the ball. Lin will hold the ball most of the time, but he is a willing passer for Harden to score.

sagemania
10-29-2012, 11:39 AM
It's going to be interesting when Teams gameplan for Harden now as he has no KD/WB to take over a game... Personally I don't think Lin is capable of carrying a team

Rockets will be a .330 win team

Lin is a role player, Harden is a top 3 SG in the nba. Lin is not suposed to carry us,thats Hardens role

TyrionLannister
10-29-2012, 11:40 AM
There'll be growing pains, since Lin is at best, a subpar shooter right now. But Lin's shot should improve as he gets more open looks.

He should also be able to score more easily if he cuts off the ball when Harden drives and pulls Lin's defender away from him.

Lucky Junior
10-29-2012, 11:49 AM
I've been trying to tell everybody. Lin and Harden is a horrible combination. Both players are at their best when they are completely dominating the ball. That's the whole reason why both players had to leave the teams they were on. Lin couldn't play off the ball when Melo came back, and Harden was reduced to 6th man because his style clashes with Westbrook's. Asik isn't going to help out at all. And the crazy thing is they are going to paying the 3 of them like $45 mil next year. This team is going to be so garbage lol. Harden will get his numbers. His effeciancy will drop in the process though.

And let me add... Kevin Martin is going to be a stud in OKC! He won't put up Harden's numbers simply because the style of his game. But he makes them a better team, and will have WAY better efficiency stats than Harden had last year. He's the 3rd option in a contract year on a contender!!! Is everyone really comparing that to being double teamed every night on a garbage squad??? Have you people never played on a bad team before? You really think he's going to give effort on defense, attack the basket, or play hurt? Be real.

The Thunder are legit!!! And this is coming from a die-hard Kobe fan living in South Beach just praying for a LA-Miami finals. Perry Jones is going to be huge off the bench! He can play at the 4 or 5 with a bunch of different matches. The Heat dropped the ball so bad on that one. I jumped out my chair I was so excited he was on the board when the Heat selected, and then they passed on him and let the Thunder pick him. With the right development, he could end up being the 2nd best player out of the draft. Seriously. He's Bosh's size now. If he adds 15 lbs to his frame and works on his low post skills, he'll be a stud of a 4.5.

torocan
11-01-2012, 02:46 PM
I've been trying to tell everybody. Lin and Harden is a horrible combination. Both players are at their best when they are completely dominating the ball. That's the whole reason why both players had to leave the teams they were on. Lin couldn't play off the ball when Melo came back, and Harden was reduced to 6th man because his style clashes with Westbrook's. Asik isn't going to help out at all. And the crazy thing is they are going to paying the 3 of them like $45 mil next year. This team is going to be so garbage lol. Harden will get his numbers. His effeciancy will drop in the process though.

And let me add... Kevin Martin is going to be a stud in OKC! He won't put up Harden's numbers simply because the style of his game. But he makes them a better team, and will have WAY better efficiency stats than Harden had last year. He's the 3rd option in a contract year on a contender!!! Is everyone really comparing that to being double teamed every night on a garbage squad??? Have you people never played on a bad team before? You really think he's going to give effort on defense, attack the basket, or play hurt? Be real.

The Thunder are legit!!! And this is coming from a die-hard Kobe fan living in South Beach just praying for a LA-Miami finals. Perry Jones is going to be huge off the bench! He can play at the 4 or 5 with a bunch of different matches. The Heat dropped the ball so bad on that one. I jumped out my chair I was so excited he was on the board when the Heat selected, and then they passed on him and let the Thunder pick him. With the right development, he could end up being the 2nd best player out of the draft. Seriously. He's Bosh's size now. If he adds 15 lbs to his frame and works on his low post skills, he'll be a stud of a 4.5.

Hrm, wonder how many games it will take before this is retracted...

Im_in_Mia_bish
11-01-2012, 02:47 PM
Not the perfect fit, but they will have some success.
I expect an 8th seed for the rockets.
For more info: refer to last night.

ColtsSpursTerps
11-01-2012, 03:05 PM
Don't get the lin hate the dude broke records..and with reserve/role players for a reason, he works better with unselfish players. if the Knicks had a legit PF instead of Amare, and Melo had time to get used to Lin, the Knicks could've been a very scary team.

rapjuicer06
11-01-2012, 03:06 PM
I think they'll be decent together. Harden can find Lin and the other way around. But there will be a LOT of turnovers.

There's no way this was a bad trade for Houston, they're close to be a playoff team, far from a championship contending team UNLESS Parsons can become more than a role player, which I think he can. I hope he gets used kind of like Turk did during Orlando's championship run

John Walls Era
11-01-2012, 03:08 PM
Asik was an underrated signing. Yeah he gets paid a lot, but hes a good defender and someone who you can rely on defensively.

mightybosstone
11-01-2012, 03:11 PM
Asik was an underrated signing. Yeah he gets paid a lot, but hes a good defender and someone who you can rely on defensively.

The thing that shocked me about last night's game was his effectiveness scoring in the paint. He had two reverse layups that made me do double takes and one play where he caught a pass from Lin on his way to the basket and threw down a nice dunk.

He's got to improve on his pick and rolls, though. There were too many plays where he would set a pick for harden and then just stand there instead of rolling. If he gets that down though, he should consistently get 10 points a night to go with his rebounding and defense.

DreamShaker
11-01-2012, 03:23 PM
There are a lot of issues that are coming up after this trade:

Who won the trade?
How does this effect OKC's title chances?
Can Houston make the playoffs?
Is Houston done making moves?
etc.

I would like to see, and also get it on the record, how people feel this backcourt will work together?

Houston should make more moves. They are forward heavy and have weak reserve guard play.

OKC is going to be fine. I don't they are doomed this season automatically. Martin and Lamb are good players, who can help.

The trade was fair on both ends. Rockets got a star and the Thunder got flexability and a potential stud for cheap.

And Rockets will battle for the 8th seed, but not much more, imo. But......I obviously am hoping for more!!!

Chronz
11-01-2012, 03:27 PM
Like this deal for OKC more than Houston
Time will tell on that rookie (his name escapes me right now) but cmon, you think he approaches Harden's level? Or that the combination of the assets they get from an expiring/declining Kevin Martin + another teen pick?


OKC gets Martin to come of the bench and he is a better and more proven scorer versus staring caliber guys. People rewrote history way too much here. Harden was a a bum on offense and defense these playoffs vs Kobe, Ron, Wade, and Bron statistically shot in the low 30s and gave up well over a point per possession to them one on one. He beat up on benches and had two damn good series vs Dallas and SA when Jack was on Durant and Marion/Kidd on KD and Russ
But Kevin struggled scoring vs the entire league last year and is an even greater liability defensively. And being able to play off the bench has historically hurt the efficiency of players so thats just a testament to Harden. Dont know what makes you think he was a bum on offense these playoffs but isnt that better than being a bum all year?


OKC got themselves a better proven scorer who doesn't need to handle the ball so he can thrive off Russ.
Im actually curious to see how he does off the bench and what kind of offense they run for him. I mean you say he doesn't need the ball but in a way he sorta does, in that he needs to have plays called up for him to score. All his life hes been in the Princeton offense, McHale ran more PnR than anyone last year and it hurt Kevins game (That along with the new shooting foul rule). Harden was already a better spot up shooter who could take advantage of collapsing defenses far better than Kevin. Kevin used to be at a similar level of efficiency but that was actually when he was the focal point.




Likewise since he's expiring he is a chip they can use to call Utah who has a big man plethora with Al or Paul likely being likely being moved. Those picks will also be good and Lamb is locked in for years cheap which means you have a thabo and KD backup as well as wiggle room to sign Maynor back up for less bc of his injury

Now thats a game changer, perfect situation for Kevin too. Still I get the feeling that Utah would want more than that to beef up a chief rival.


Houston might as well call their back court BBQ chicken because they gon get eaten alive nightly. Two guys that can't defend, overly ball dominant. A pg who got a mil for every good game he's had, and is turnover prone as all hell which will be magnified since he doesn't have the lift to finish now. SG with no right hand and the inability to get where he wants like odom or Manu vs real talent, no post up skills, no mid whatsoever, and the flopping and Reggie miller rules.
They had some of that last year, Harden is an upgrade defensively and has room to improve and Houston WANTS him to become more ball dominant. The hope is that the 2 will take pressure off each other while complimenting their strengths.


They grossly overpay with a poison pill deal in Lin and maxing out a guy in Harden who shouldn't get over 10m per because he isn't proven at all vs starting talent by himself since he played 80% of the time with Russ and/or KD. Top that off with paying big money for a C in Asik who has never played 15mins per game a full year and you get one *** tasting offseason for the rockets.
Since when do players get played by what they have proven? Nobody wants to miss out on a star and considering what players get paid for what they have shown, Harden has given more hints at stardom that he warrants that kind of gamble. I felt the same way when Tmac got the max for being a teen that hadn't proven much more than what your asking.

Lin is another deal but he hold off the court value that your ignoring. Asik is risk but the Rockets arent crippled by his salary like say the Lakers were when they were paying Brian Grant 15M to waste Kobes prime years.

rockbottom2010
11-01-2012, 04:23 PM
like i said from the beginning, this is going to work, why, its because this is james harden's team...and the future is brighter than ever

b@llhog24
11-02-2012, 06:20 PM
Hrm, wonder how many games it will take before this is retracted...

1.


Asik was an underrated signing. Yeah he gets paid a lot, but hes a good defender and someone who you can rely on defensively.


:confused:

Sadds The Gr8
11-02-2012, 10:00 PM
Its prolly easy to say noe but I thought they fit perfectly right after the trade was made. Lin doesn't really handle ppressure well and needs a secondary ballhandler to help him, so harden is perfect for that. Also both are unselfish and have scoring and shot making ability if one chooses to drive and kick to the other.

That's prolly why Lin struggled in the preseason.

heyman321
11-02-2012, 10:03 PM
Lmao!! Lin almost a triple double, Harden with 45 points, damn Rockets are exciting.

Kashmir13579
11-02-2012, 10:05 PM
Lin almost had a triple double and harden ahd 45? Yeah, i think they'll be alright.

jam
11-02-2012, 10:05 PM
JLin messed around and almost got a triple double! :)

He's still rusty!

John Walls Era
11-02-2012, 10:08 PM
nahhhh they suck together. PSD majority was obviously right, per usual.

Blitzace137
11-02-2012, 10:16 PM
Lin and Harden killed it. 45 Harden and almost a triple double from Lin. Rockets are gonna be a fun team to watch but there still lacking one more player. They struggle when Lin and Harden is off the court.

TeamSeattle
11-02-2012, 10:19 PM
Lin and Harden killed it. 45 Harden and almost a triple double from Lin. Rockets are gonna be a fun team to watch but there still lacking one more player. They struggle when Lin and Harden is off the court.

Yep that's what I'm saying they lack that extra player. A good PF would do them wonders.

FOBolous
11-02-2012, 10:22 PM
Harden's been so good...he did something Melo could not do back in NYC: he overshadowed Linsanity. With Harden scoring 45 pts on 75% shooting, Lin's near triple double (21/10/7) flew under the radar.

Kashmir13579
11-02-2012, 10:26 PM
Time will tell on that rookie (his name escapes me right now) but cmon, you think he approaches Harden's level? Or that the combination of the assets they get from an expiring/declining Kevin Martin + another teen pick?


But Kevin struggled scoring vs the entire league last year and is an even greater liability defensively. And being able to play off the bench has historically hurt the efficiency of players so thats just a testament to Harden. Dont know what makes you think he was a bum on offense these playoffs but isnt that better than being a bum all year?


Im actually curious to see how he does off the bench and what kind of offense they run for him. I mean you say he doesn't need the ball but in a way he sorta does, in that he needs to have plays called up for him to score. All his life hes been in the Princeton offense, McHale ran more PnR than anyone last year and it hurt Kevins game (That along with the new shooting foul rule). Harden was already a better spot up shooter who could take advantage of collapsing defenses far better than Kevin. Kevin used to be at a similar level of efficiency but that was actually when he was the focal point.




Now thats a game changer, perfect situation for Kevin too. Still I get the feeling that Utah would want more than that to beef up a chief rival.


They had some of that last year, Harden is an upgrade defensively and has room to improve and Houston WANTS him to become more ball dominant. The hope is that the 2 will take pressure off each other while complimenting their strengths.


Since when do players get played by what they have proven? Nobody wants to miss out on a star and considering what players get paid for what they have shown, Harden has given more hints at stardom that he warrants that kind of gamble. I felt the same way when Tmac got the max for being a teen that hadn't proven much more than what your asking.

Lin is another deal but he hold off the court value that your ignoring. Asik is risk but the Rockets arent crippled by his salary like say the Lakers were when they were paying Brian Grant 15M to waste Kobes prime years.
Jeremy Lambs name escapes you? You were the one talking about T-mac prospects?? I think he has superstar potential, definitely.

If Kevin Martin can provide outside shooting, thats it, just shooting. And Lamb turns out to be half of the player he can be, OKC will have at the very least, made the best out of a bad situation.

You think Martin will struggle on offense and coming off the bench hurts effeciency? I've never understood this argument. Thats more of a mental thing. Kevin Martin is one of the better off the ball scorers in the league.

I actually love the trade for both teams.. I was looking forward to seeing Lin and Lamb develop together, but hey, its James harden. The dude has been going beast.

AIRMAR72
11-02-2012, 10:34 PM
JERMY LIN is no starter he should be traded is skillz are OK but I see him as a bench player OR BACK up

joeym
11-02-2012, 10:34 PM
Yes...apparently they do work quite well together...but honestly Harden doesn't seem to need much help...

Slimsim
11-02-2012, 10:35 PM
Lets see these number agai.st elite teams

TeamSeattle
11-02-2012, 10:38 PM
Lets see these number agai.st elite teams

The Hawks are 4-5 seed every year and they play good defense.

mzgrizz
11-02-2012, 10:48 PM
As long as Lin takes a backseat

kubernetes
11-02-2012, 11:13 PM
It's hilarious to read the first few pages of this thread.

Answer: Yes, they work fine together. They're both unselfish players with high BBIQ. And Lin still isn't 100% and they've barely started playing together--imagine how much better they'll be by mid season. If they could get some depth they'd be in great shape--don't know if 40min/gm each is wise.

WhiteSoxGod
11-03-2012, 12:41 AM
JERMY LIN is no starter he should be traded is skillz are OK but I see him as a bench player OR BACK up

Yeah Jermy Lin sucks, ha ha ha. What a mook. Jeremy Lin and Hardin work very well together. I hate stupid people.

sunsfan88
11-03-2012, 12:52 AM
The Hawks are 4-5 seed every year and they play good defense.

That was with All Star Joe Johnson. There was no SG that Atlanta or Detroit has that's even close to average. Or that can even remotely guard Harden.

jp611
11-03-2012, 12:54 AM
The Hawks are 4-5 seed every year and they play good defense.

That was with All Star Joe Johnson. There was no SG that Atlanta or Detroit has that's even close to average. Or that can even remotely guard Harden.

They rotated defensively on him and even had Josh Smith, one of the best defenders in the league, on him at times

el hidalgo
11-03-2012, 12:58 AM
Yeah Jermy Lin sucks, ha ha ha. What a mook. Jeremy Lin and Hardin work very well together. I hate stupid people.

fail

JasonJohnHorn
11-03-2012, 01:09 AM
They have certainly faired well in their first two games together. If that is any indicatin i think the answer is yes.

And they are both good ball handlers, and decents passers, but I don't foresee an issue with them sharing ball handlign duties. It's not like Jordan and Pippen and Wade adn LBJ have had problems doing that. Not to say that Lin and Harden are the next Pippen and Jordan (lol, that would be classic first week over-reaction), but I'm saying if players like those guys, who have ego, can work it out, I'm sure these two, who likely have a lot less ego can manage. Will they be as good a back-court pairing as Goodrich and West? or Magic and Nixon? Or Dumar and Thomas? No. But they could make up one of the best offensive back-court pairngs in the league.

WhiteSoxGod
11-03-2012, 03:23 AM
fail

LOL I hate when people say fail. I guess I'm just not part of the backstreet boys generation.

That was the joke genius....geez. You're quick, ha ha ha. What a mook.

Hawkeye15
11-03-2012, 03:34 AM
2 games. I am getting fairly annoyed with the sample size reactions.

sagemania
11-03-2012, 05:13 AM
Yeah because everyone starts the season averaging 42 points 6 boards 7 assists 3 steals on 63% fg and 43% 3pt.Not to mention the rockets are 2-0 and harden gets to the line 11 times a game at 87%.

JayW_1023
11-03-2012, 05:45 AM
This is the leagues top story, yet all we see is Lakers and Knicks headlines.

SMH

Driven
11-03-2012, 11:03 AM
I love how the opinion of this thread changed 180 degrees after October 29th.

I do think that some of the arguments against Harden were pretty ridiculous though. And I do think the first two games prove that this guy has game.