PDA

View Full Version : Sam Presti vs. Otis Smith



NYSpirit1
10-28-2012, 02:23 AM
John Hollinger actually tweeted something that put it all together:


John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
Just realized that OKC arguably got more for Harden than Magic did for Dwight.

Harden is a budding star, Howard is a superstar, but general mangers like Kevin O'Conner and Sam Presti address problems before they happen.

Otis Smith didn't, then got fired.

He could have dealt Howard a long time ago and didn't. The fact that OKC got a much better haul than the Magic did really shows something. Harden was the sixth man of the year, Dwight is a top three player in the league.

The Rockets wanted to give the Magic that haul and so much more. Even more so, if Howard was dealt when Melo & Deron were, the Magic probably would have landed a franchise player in return AND picks.

GMs who address problems before they happen end up being successful, the ones that don't fail.

I understand that letting go of a star player is difficult, but this situation has become norm in the past few years - LeBron, Paul, Melo, Bosh etc.

It begs to ask the question even more - why did the Magic handle the Howard situation so badly and why did they refuse to trade him for so long when he wanted out for even longer?

There is no way we'd be sitting here today with Howard on the Lakers for chump change if that was the case.

topdog
10-28-2012, 02:50 AM
I don't know if you can put the blame totally on Otis. Remember that the owner - Devos, didn't seem interested in taking any step back because of his age and wanting his team to win now.

That said, I think it's a great point by Hollinger. Would you rather have: Afflalo, Vucervic, Harrington, Harkless, and some future lottery protected picks or a one year rental of Martin, Jeremy Lamb, and two first round picks next year from teams that were in the lottery this year?

Dade County
10-28-2012, 02:52 AM
something is wrong with the Orlando Magic owner...

He didn't want to start over, but now look at his franchise, they could have started over with great pieces, but NOW they have nothing.

And the reason why Howard was traded to the Lakers, is because they promised him that if he opted in, they would trade him to the Nets... The Magic lied, they tried to fire everyone and change Howard's mind; it didn't work.

So they had to keep their word somehow, so they told Howard, we are not trading you to a team that illegally contacted you.

So they shipped Howard to his second choice..... The Lakers.

Chill_Will_24
10-28-2012, 02:56 AM
Because James Harden did not hold the Thunder hostage.

Dwight Howard was a UFA and the threat of leaving along with his refusal to sign extensions with any team except Brooklyn made it very difficult for the Magic.

The Thunder acted while Harden's value was at an all time high, knowing they could not afford to retain him.

Am i the only one that thinks that the Thunder won this trade? Kevin Martin is so underrated and i feel he will more than fill in the void left by Harden. Lamb is a very promising young player that could very well turn out to be better than Harden and the thunder even got picks thrown in.

The Thunder are so well run.

KnickaBocka.44
10-28-2012, 02:58 AM
Because James Harden did not hold the Thunder hostage.

Dwight Howard was a UFA and the threat of leaving along with his refusal to sign extensions with any team except Brooklyn made it very difficult for the Magic.

The Thunder acted while Harden's value was at an all time high, knowing they could not afford to retain him.

That is the OP's point. As soon as the Magic knew he wasn't going to re-sign they should have shipped him to the highest bidder, before any sort of demands he made became public.

Clippersfan86
10-28-2012, 03:05 AM
I said the same thing hours ago when news broke. It's pathetic really that Orlando failed so hard.

Knowledge
10-28-2012, 03:27 AM
I don't know if you can put the blame totally on Otis. Remember that the owner - Devos, didn't seem interested in taking any step back because of his age and wanting his team to win now.

That said, I think it's a great point by Hollinger. Would you rather have: Afflalo, Vucervic, Harrington, Harkless, and some future lottery protected picks or a one year rental of Martin, Jeremy Lamb, and two first round picks next year from teams that were in the lottery this year?

One of the picks hou gave up is from the mavs and top 20 protected, the other is a weirdly configured one from the raptors.

Still a better deal than ORL. got though.

The goods
10-30-2012, 09:52 PM
That'll be the new NBA for you, well a player's contract is coming up, and it doesn't look like they'll stay ship him out before word gets out brilliant move by the thunder.

Hawkeye15
10-30-2012, 09:55 PM
Because James Harden did not hold the Thunder hostage.

Dwight Howard was a UFA and the threat of leaving along with his refusal to sign extensions with any team except Brooklyn made it very difficult for the Magic.

The Thunder acted while Harden's value was at an all time high, knowing they could not afford to retain him.

Am i the only one that thinks that the Thunder won this trade? Kevin Martin is so underrated and i feel he will more than fill in the void left by Harden. Lamb is a very promising young player that could very well turn out to be better than Harden and the thunder even got picks thrown in.

The Thunder are so well run.

great ****ing point. Seriously. That being said, we could line up what Denver got for Melo, and what Orlando got for Dwight, and its still very, very, very one sided.

Chronz
10-30-2012, 10:30 PM
Restricted Free Agency gives teams more leverage

Hawkeye15
10-30-2012, 10:38 PM
Restricted Free Agency gives teams more leverage

oh for sure it does. There is no absolute pressure if you know you can retain them if needed.

DreamShaker
10-30-2012, 10:42 PM
Quick trades always turn out better. When a trade is speculated to death, and teams are made to wait, second-guessing and stubborness tend to happen. Then the team gets worn out, and cave when all the leverage is gone.

DreamShaker
10-30-2012, 10:48 PM
oh for sure it does. There is no absolute pressure if you know you can retain them if needed.

But there is still something to be said for teams that move quickly. Also, the timing of this trade helps. The Rockets have not had time to fall in love with Lamb, but yet, still see the team and realize Lin as the franchise player is a nightmare scenerio.

macc
10-31-2012, 02:07 PM
I've never understood why people had the issue with the Magic trade. You have to realize Howard was going to be a free agent and only wanted to sign long term with 1 team, the Nets.

I don't know how many teams are willing to give the Magic anything they want for a player who could most likely be gone in a year.

Personally I think Orlando did great with their trade. They got rid of a couple of their bad contracts in J Rich and Duhon. They took back Harrington who is only a partial guarenteed contract after this year. They'll be able to use him as a trade bait at the deadline to give him to a contender for possibly a late first/sec round pic = more flexibility.

Orlando received a potential future all star in Harkless. A player in Nikola Vucevic which has the potential of a double double guy w/ the possibility of being an all star (to early to tell though), plus a solid player in Arron Afflalo.

Ultimately the key to this trade was flexibility. The Magic now have enough money to sign a max contract in the 2013 offseason or TWO max contracts in the 2014 off season. If the Magic play as bad as I expect themto, most likely they'll have a top 5 pic next year and a top 10 pic the year after that. With Vucevic (first round pic) Nicholson (first round pic), Harkless (first round pic), pair them up with 2 max contract players and a top 5 pic next year ala Shabazz Mohmadd and you're now a contender again.

Obviously alot of things have to fall into play for that to happen but at least they have the flexibility to control their own future instead of a Gasol/Bynum leading them to the 6-8th seed in the playoffs and getting knocked out each year.

Also going back to the Otis Smith hate. He had an owner who most likely isn't going to live much longer so they wanted their team to stay competitive vs rebuild. The owners controlled alot of what Otis was able to do.

Also when people say, "they could of gotten multi first round pics." To me that is the most overrated thing in a trade. Do you know what first round pics are 90% of the time? Role players. Look at the draft the last 10 years. The majority of players picked after the 10th spot are role players at best. Unless you're getting a first round pic from a projected very bad team then it doesn't mean that much. I would much rather have money to spend on free agents then mid to late first round pics.