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View Full Version : Small market owners screwed themselves



NYSpirit1
10-28-2012, 12:01 AM
Self explanatory. Issues a harsh luxury tax to penalize teams like the Heat, Lakers and Knicks but meanwhile put a thorn in their star child in the Thunder.

It's actually nice to see this because being a fan of a big market team, I'm tired of small market owners complaining.

The Thunder are the one team to draft well and could've kept everyone, but they lost out.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-28-2012, 12:05 AM
They did. So what?

king4day
10-28-2012, 12:11 AM
It's not complaining. It's that no player wants to go to a small market team. OKC happend to strike gold in a few straight drafts.
They seemed to make out OK in this one and will have future flexibility along with youth. They made out OK. The deal was done a bit premature, but I don't see them falling off too much.

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-28-2012, 12:12 AM
The lockout was basically because the small market owners wanted to extract more $$$ from the Lakers via increased revenue sharing (especially after the Lakers got that big contract of 2 billion by Time Warner, that made everyone else greedy). And also, the Owners wanted a BRI to their liking and wanted to screw the players in the process, which they got.


It had nothing to do with parity and all that other crap. Trust me.

richiesaurus310
10-28-2012, 12:17 AM
All they need is a franchise tag...

Monta is beast
10-28-2012, 12:27 AM
I don't see how everyone is complaining. The new CBA is supposed to prevent owners from throwing max contracts at 2-3 players and having a bunch of scrubs. It's doing what it's supposed to.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-28-2012, 12:30 AM
All they need is a franchise tag...

Hard cap makes more sense and should be in place.

Dade County
10-28-2012, 01:33 AM
Hard cap makes more sense and should be in place.

This...

Dade County
10-28-2012, 01:36 AM
People always bring up the HEAT when it comes to the subject like this...

But people are forgetting that the HEAT are not a big market either; I think it's just blind hate.

All I know is that Pat Riley has everything under control, and are stars will finish there careers in a HEAT jersey ( I hope ).

kblo247
10-28-2012, 02:06 AM
The small markets teams got what they were after ... A handout and free money that they don't generate from teams who do

topdog
10-28-2012, 02:27 AM
We haven't even seen the luxury tax yet so, believe me, small market teams will be happy when they're getting money from both New York teams (wasn't there a fella named Jeremy something that they had to give up?), LA, Chicago (Asik), ect.

It's not like there weren't decisions along these lines for small franchises before. It used to be "well, if we give him the contract he wants we're going to go into the red."

Finally, I think OKC made a great trade. Their team is Westbrook and Durant. It's a great move because 1. it builds a culture of "play to win" not "play to get paid" and 2. if someone wants to get paid, you flip them for a great package of good picks/prospects that can replace that someone.

NYSpirit1
10-28-2012, 02:35 AM
People always bring up the HEAT when it comes to the subject like this...

But people are forgetting that the HEAT are not a big market either; I think it's just blind hate.

All I know is that Pat Riley has everything under control, and are stars will finish there careers in a HEAT jersey ( I hope ).

It's amazing when Heat fans ignore that they play in Miami, which is a big attraction and hot spot for players.

Lebron and Bosh weren't the first to come. Tim Hardaway, Mourning and Shaq were all THRILLED to be in a city like Miami before them.

It may not be a big media market, but it's a big attraction for players, so it's essentially the same thing.

Heediot
10-28-2012, 07:16 AM
The rules are made to make it difficult for EVERYONE not just big/small.

xxplayerxx23
10-28-2012, 08:45 AM
enough with you're threads. Its been a while since you have had a good thread.

Bramaca
10-28-2012, 09:21 AM
People always bring up the HEAT when it comes to the subject like this...

But people are forgetting that the HEAT are not a big market either; I think it's just blind hate.

All I know is that Pat Riley has everything under control, and are stars will finish there careers in a HEAT jersey ( I hope ).

Are Heat fans still maintaining that they are a small market? May not be NY, LA, or Chicago but Miami is far from a small market.

SteBO
10-28-2012, 10:51 AM
People always bring up the HEAT when it comes to the subject like this...

But people are forgetting that the HEAT are not a big market either; I think it's just blind hate.

All I know is that Pat Riley has everything under control, and are stars will finish there careers in a HEAT jersey ( I hope ).

Are Heat fans still maintaining that they are a small market? May not be NY, LA, or Chicago but Miami is far from a small market.
We aren't a small market at all, but we aren't a big one either :shrug:

JasonJohnHorn
10-28-2012, 10:57 AM
Profit sharing is the only answer to the big market/small market problem. Making LA and NY pay more isn't going to hurt them much. I think both teams generate over 500 million a year... which is more than enough to buy most NBA teams. Small martket teams did make it harder for themselves in general, but I think luxury spots like Miami and Orlando will be unable to sign players and trade for big contracts like LA and NY, so it may help them in that respect.

The Thunder have a good front office. They draft well, and made a smart move with Harden. Even if they could have afforded to keep Harden, they still would have been over-paying him for the role he has. He is the third option on offence. Do you really want to be paying your third option 15 million per? I mean, Chris Bosh may be the third option in Miami, but he is also their best rebounder, so they are paying him for more than being the third scoring option, where as Harden, his role on offence defines him. You can get SG's that knock down open shots for a lot less than 15 million a year.

sjoerdje
10-28-2012, 11:26 AM
People forget Harden was OKC's 1B in terms of production, look at his efficiency. And don't say they struck gold every year.

Remember that they passed on Love when they picked Westbrook.

On topic: there should be a hard cap or no cap.

airforceones25
10-28-2012, 02:43 PM
People forget Harden was OKC's 1B in terms of production, look at his efficiency. And don't say they struck gold every year.

Remember that they passed on Love when they picked Westbrook.

On topic: there should be a hard cap or no cap.

Westbrook + Ibaka >>> Love

Raps18-19 Champ
10-28-2012, 03:12 PM
It's amazing when Heat fans ignore that they play in Miami, which is a big attraction and hot spot for players.

Lebron and Bosh weren't the first to come. Tim Hardaway, Mourning and Shaq were all THRILLED to be in a city like Miami before them.

It may not be a big media market, but it's a big attraction for players, so it's essentially the same thing.



No it isn't.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-28-2012, 03:13 PM
Are Heat fans still maintaining that they are a small market? May not be NY, LA, or Chicago but Miami is far from a small market.

He's not saying they are a small market. They are a mid market size. But they are attractive.

So an attractive destination plus a medium market makes up for not being a large market.

2-ONE-5
10-28-2012, 03:33 PM
OKC made 30+ Mil in profits last season...

Blitzbolt
10-28-2012, 03:45 PM
????Small market owner's are always screwed that's why we call them SMALL markets.

Gritz
10-28-2012, 04:24 PM
enough with you're threads. Its been a while since you have had a good thread.

Lol

Kevj77
10-28-2012, 04:52 PM
It's not just the luxury tax. Restricted free agency hurts small markets as well it causes them to overpay. This offseason most of the players that got big offers were restricted free agents that played for small markets teams getting max offers from other small market teams. If you don't make it tough for their current team to match you'll never sign a restricted free agent, but this rule makes teams overpay. It was intended to make it harder for players to leave the team that drafts them and it does, but it also leads overpaying many of those players.

jam
10-28-2012, 05:07 PM
Yeah man, the lockout was a conspiracy to suck the lakers dry.

Dude, you really need find something to do besides post 60X a day on psd.


The lockout was basically because the small market owners wanted to extract more $$$ from the Lakers via increased revenue sharing (especially after the Lakers got that big contract of 2 billion by Time Warner, that made everyone else greedy). And also, the Owners wanted a BRI to their liking and wanted to screw the players in the process, which they got.


It had nothing to do with parity and all that other crap. Trust me.

Canterbury
10-28-2012, 06:03 PM
People always bring up the HEAT when it comes to the subject like this...

But people are forgetting that the HEAT are not a big market either; I think it's just blind hate.

Except it's not blind hate.

Okay so Miami isn't big market. Fine. But Miami has what many others don't, which is appeal. Small or big market, Miami is definitely "sexier" so it gives the team an inherent advantage against competitors. Style points goes a long way for the NBA player.

So while the Heat can operate in a mid-tier market environment, you have to understand that it's inherent advantage makes up for lost ground between the Heat and the "big" markets. That's why people always say that the Heat are in a big market.

THE MTL
10-28-2012, 06:16 PM
Self explanatory. Issues a harsh luxury tax to penalize teams like the Heat, Lakers and Knicks but meanwhile put a thorn in their star child in the Thunder.

It's actually nice to see this because being a fan of a big market team, I'm tired of small market owners complaining.

The Thunder are the one team to draft well and could've kept everyone, but they lost out.

Im happy small market teams are getting what they deserve (sry OKC). By forcing the lockout and with the strict tax penalties; they only screwed themselves over. Teams like Boston, New York, Los Angeles, and Miami can actually afford and would be more than willing to go over the luxury tax line.

Eventually, it'll be the small markets stuck with only one star and a few good role players while larger markets load up on stars because they are willing to pay.

da ThRONe
10-28-2012, 06:22 PM
The lockout was basically because the small market owners wanted to extract more $$$ from the Lakers via increased revenue sharing (especially after the Lakers got that big contract of 2 billion by Time Warner, that made everyone else greedy). And also, the Owners wanted a BRI to their liking and wanted to screw the players in the process, which they got.


It had nothing to do with parity and all that other crap. Trust me.

Yeah or else we would have a hard salary cap.

The lockout was 100% about the owners who where claiming to be operating in the red to get into the black. The whole competitive balance thing was a charade.

jimm120
10-28-2012, 06:27 PM
Self explanatory. Issues a harsh luxury tax to penalize teams like the Heat, Lakers and Knicks but meanwhile put a thorn in their star child in the Thunder.

It's actually nice to see this because being a fan of a big market team, I'm tired of small market owners complaining.

The Thunder are the one team to draft well and could've kept everyone, but they lost out.

No, not really.

What they wanted was for big market teams not to be able to keep their players while also taking the small market's players. They knew they'd also get screwed in this, but at least it increased the chances for the,

1- to keep the player
2- OR attract a player because they're the only ones with cap space
2-

topdog
10-28-2012, 10:24 PM
Westbrook + Ibaka >>> Love

Love + Pekovic > Westbrook + Ibaka if we're going that route...

Gibby23
10-28-2012, 10:30 PM
enough with you're threads. Its been a while since you have had a good thread.

Did you flip a coin?

MetroMan
10-28-2012, 11:04 PM
Last year, NBA players, coaches, analysts, and fans alike sacrificed the first few months of last season due to the NBA lockout. Many different factors prevented the two sides from striking a deal, until this feat was eventually accomplished and basketball resurfaced on Christmas day.

However, the Collective Bargaining Agreement did not accomplish one of its primary tasks, and this was particularly evident in the James Harden trade last night.

Reigning Sixth Man of the Year and Olympian James Harden, a key cog in this young Oklahoma City team, was shipped to Houston along with Cole Aldrich, Lazar Hayward, and Daequan Cook for Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, and future draft picks.

The Thunder attempted to sign the coveted shooting guard to an extension, as the deadline of Halloween is rapidly approaching, but the two sides failed to reach an agreement. Oklahoma City offered Harden a four-year contract worth roughly $55 million, but Harden was insistent on earning a max contract, which he certainly would have commanded in the open market from plenty of teams such as the Dallas Mavericks and the Phoenix Suns.

This trade represents much more than just a contract disagreement.

The new CBA was designed to heavily tax teams for going over the luxury tax threshold, supposedly hindering teams such as the Los Angeles Lakers and the Miami Heat, who have more assets because they are located in larger markets. However, this same tax prevented the Thunder from retaining Harden.

The tax increases exponentially with every year a team is over the threshold. Even if the Thunder had amnestied center Kendrick Perkins and made other cost-cutting moves, they would still find themselves above this threshold, and thus would still have to pay significant funds.

Teams in bigger markets have clearly not changed their game plans based on this new taxation plan. The Lakers still have three players that will make the max—Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol and Dwight Howard—not to mention the lucrative deals of Steve Nash and the overpaid Metta World Peace.

Miami also still has three nearly max contract players: LeBron James, Dywane Wade and Chris Bosh.

Teams like the Brooklyn Nets have all five of their starters earning upwards of $10 million this season, including max contract players Deron Williams, Joe Johnson and Brook Lopez. Four of these five deals were negotiated the summer after this new agreement, and the fifth (Johnson) came in a trade that same offseason.

Without the expensive television packages and billion-dollar arena, the Thunder struggle to compete with these larger markets, and thus were forced to pay the price.

Not only did this bargaining agreement hurt the Thunder by making them sacrifice one of their biggest assets, but it did not affect the wealthier teams in the league.

A core of Harden, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka could have been intact for over a decade with all four players at 24 years of age or younger. For now, we all must ponder what could have been due to the ineffective CBA.

Sly Guy
10-28-2012, 11:14 PM
it's true, the new CBA is a joke for league parity. After months going without and claiming to be about what's right for the game, the CBA was settled last year with little more tyhan agreement on revenue split.

NYMetros
10-28-2012, 11:15 PM
Then why did the small market teams agree to it?

LAcowBOMBER
10-28-2012, 11:18 PM
Are you suggesting an alternative though? If there was no tax then the Lakers and Heat would be even better. If your saying they should have a hard cap then I think the players union would not allow it

Cal827
10-28-2012, 11:25 PM
Small Market teams agreed, cause it would help their bottom line. The "fight for parity" that it seemed like they were using during the lock-out was basically a facade.

You want a league that is closer to parity? Two simple words. Hard Cap. Look at what it has done in the NHL (before this strike lol)

ChiSox219
10-28-2012, 11:26 PM
Guess where all that tax money goes...

Dade County
10-28-2012, 11:34 PM
A core of Harden, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka could have been intact for over a decade with all four players at 24 years of age or younger. For now, we all must ponder what could have been due to the ineffective CBA.

The CBA did it's JOB then... Why would ANY fan of another team, want to have to deal with that core for over 7 years:confused: (Thats not even remotely fair)

One Super team down, who's next.:D

Bulls really can't do anything because of Rose injury
Boston age caught up with them
Knicks will change their tone if they don't make it to the finals in the next 3yrs
Lakers are the Lakers ( "meaning" The league is rigged )
HEAT have Pat Riley, so they are doing some under handed things behind the scenes, with the league permission of course.

Dade County
10-28-2012, 11:37 PM
Are you suggesting an alternative though? If there was no tax then the Lakers and Heat would be even better. If your saying they should have a hard cap then I think the players union would not allow it

Put them in their place... Lock this **** out for a year or two.... yes I can say that, because it's not my money ( I guess ), but everyone knows that it would make the league better.

lakersiznumber1
10-29-2012, 12:01 AM
i guess you madd it was what the small market wanted oh well

Phenomenonsense
10-29-2012, 12:07 AM
They could have kept him. Just as NY could have kept Lin. If how much it costs you to do so is too much, too bad. The system is working as intended. Big names can't leave small markets and team up anymore. If you draft well, and are willing to pay, you can have an OKC like superteam. Unfortunately, until the contracts left over from even last year, (before the CBA takes full effect this year), are done, we will still feel the affects of the old CBA. Give it time.

topdog
10-29-2012, 12:08 AM
You can't really judge something that hasn't been implemented yet. Besides, we've seen Chicago have to forego re-signing Asik and New York pass on Lin because of the tax (which, again, is not yet in full force - meaning teams may adjust later once they start paying it).

So, in essence, all teams will be forced to decide whether they want a star core and no bench or a more balanced team. Consider the Lakers, they have a pretty formidable starting lineup, but what happens if there's foul trouble or an injury? What about fatigue? Their bench is fairly dismal.

SugeKnight
10-29-2012, 12:14 AM
Hardcap

IversonIsKrazy
10-29-2012, 01:55 AM
I wish they had just cancelled the entire season last year if that's what it would've taken to get a Hard Cap & a Franchise Tag.