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View Full Version : Albert Pujols Vs Barry Bonds



PujolsLebronRG3
10-26-2012, 07:41 AM
Now, I know what many of you are already thinking: Not again!.

Before you make your judgement on who the better player is, I think its fair to look at a head to head comparison of the two superstars first.

In this comparison, we can see many head to head stats, as well as awards and achievements.

Since Albert Pujols has only played 12 seasons, it's fair to compare Barry Bonds' first 12 seasons.


http://oi47.tinypic.com/ixh0so.jpg

Take a look and decide for yourself who's the better player.

Jeffy25
10-26-2012, 09:36 AM
To that point?

Age 32?


Sure, they are very close.


89.0 rWAR for Bonds - .282/.408/.551 with gold glove defense in left and some time in center
vs 88.5 rWAR for Pujols - .325/.414/.608 with gold glove defense at first

Pujols was the better hitter, Bonds the better fielder at a harder position

I'd say these two are equal.

Now what Bonds did post 97 though, is highly unlikely to be replicated. However, if it is, Pujols will more than earn his contract

todu82
10-26-2012, 06:34 PM
The answer here, for me, is Bonds.

LASportsFan1996
10-26-2012, 06:55 PM
At this point? I'll go with Pujols

And wow Pujols is on pace to get the HR record lol, I honestly didn't think he was 100 home runs ahead at this point

DR_1
10-26-2012, 07:53 PM
Pujols. He's the only one of these two who didn't cheat his way to a great career.

abe_froman
10-26-2012, 08:19 PM
pretty equal,i'll go albert up to this point.but albert i'm guess will have a decline that bonds didnt (obviously)

rcs15
10-26-2012, 11:00 PM
Pujols is close right now, however going forward he's obviously not going to be close to the same stratosphere as Bonds was. For many reasons, including the obvious.

RangersMets
10-29-2012, 12:31 AM
Pujols. He's the only one of these two who didn't cheat his way to a great career.

If Barry retired instead of started taking PED's then he still would have had a great career.

The SF Giant
10-31-2012, 04:03 AM
Pujols. He's the only one of these two who didn't cheat his way to a great career.

It's not cheating if 90% of your peers are doing it.

abe_froman
10-31-2012, 03:44 PM
It's not cheating if 90% of your peers are doing it.

no,its still cheating.numbers that do it dont define if it is or not.if 90% of your classmates cheat on a test by getting the answer key,it doesnt make it within the rules,just means alot of you are doing the wrong/bad thing

Demon11
10-31-2012, 04:19 PM
no,its still cheating.numbers that do it dont define if it is or not.if 90% of your classmates cheat on a test by getting the answer key,it doesnt make it within the rules,just means alot of you are doing the wrong/bad thing

That analogy doesn't work considering pitchers used steroids as well.

The Thing
11-01-2012, 01:56 AM
Pre 1999 Barry Bonds>Albert Pujols

As a hitter, and as an overall player.

Bond had back to back 200 OPS+ seasons (204 and 206), while Pujols career high is 191.

Say what you will about Bonds, but back in his day he was a beast well before BALCO.

Arod vs Pujols would be a better comparison, and I'd give the edge to Arod.

Greedy22
11-01-2012, 02:40 AM
What really impresses me is Pujols durability during his 1st 12 years, WOW.

Pinstripe pride
11-07-2012, 04:53 PM
It's not cheating if 90% of your peers are doing it.

yes it is. if its illegal its cheating

Pinstripe pride
11-07-2012, 04:53 PM
pujols

Greedy22
11-23-2012, 08:13 AM
Bonds

flips333
11-23-2012, 01:28 PM
Give me the pooh holes. I think bonds late life power surge was cheating.

flips333
11-23-2012, 01:31 PM
It's not cheating if 90% of your peers are doing it.

If 90% of the people in a room punch your mom, is it still bad if another one takes a turn.


Simply it's still cheating... To suggest he's not a cheater is just a homer argument.

MVPosey28
11-24-2012, 03:54 AM
Pujols. He's the only one of these two who didn't cheat his way to a great career.

You never know. Shoot, I thought ARod was baseball's last hope. This is a naive comment. The drugs are ahead of the testing.

MVPosey28
11-24-2012, 03:56 AM
And to answer the question:

Bonds

Juiced or unjuiced Bonds!

OptiskeptSF
11-24-2012, 08:20 AM
BBs were left out of that stats link, Bonds had exactly 200 more BBs than Pujols in that 12 year time frame.

And Pujols has 900 more ABs than Bonds. Mostly because Pujols' incredible durability during that time. And those that say Pujols has never used steroids.. you are very naive.

flips333
11-24-2012, 10:10 AM
BBs were left out of that stats link, Bonds had exactly 200 more BBs than Pujols in that 12 year time frame.

And Pujols has 900 more ABs than Bonds. Mostly because Pujols' incredible durability during that time. And those that say Pujols has never used steroids.. you are very naive.

Yeah but there is evidence in one case and no evidence in the other.

Can we also put the fact that Bonds went to the playoffs year after year but never won one? I mean there is something to the fact that he was kind of a tool, as far as how it affects the team. And his kind of weak performance save 2002

OptiskeptSF
11-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Yeah but there is evidence in one case and no evidence in the other.

Can we also put the fact that Bonds went to the playoffs year after year but never won one? I mean there is something to the fact that he was kind of a tool, as far as how it affects the team. And his kind of weak performance save 2002

7(3 in pittsburg) playoff appearances in a 22 year career = year after year? Pujols in his first 12 years has been to the playoffs the same amount as Bonds in his 22 year career. Very strong argument.

But you're right that he never won a championship(he got a few outs away from one in 2002), but everyone knows that WS championships are an individual stat, team doesn't matter. Because its a proven face that a bad player can not win a world series.

Fly
11-24-2012, 05:24 PM
BBs were left out of that stats link, Bonds had exactly 200 more BBs than Pujols in that 12 year time frame.

And Pujols has 900 more ABs than Bonds. Mostly because Pujols' incredible durability during that time. And those that say Pujols has never used steroids.. you are very naive.

Prove it.

flips333
11-24-2012, 10:41 PM
7(3 in pittsburg) playoff appearances in a 22 year career = year after year? Pujols in his first 12 years has been to the playoffs the same amount as Bonds in his 22 year career. Very strong argument.

But you're right that he never won a championship(he got a few outs away from one in 2002), but everyone knows that WS championships are an individual stat, team doesn't matter. Because its a proven face that a bad player can not win a world series.

My point is a guy like bonds wasn't really all that into team. Your sarcasm doesn't change his poor performance in the playoffs and his **** attitude.

OptiskeptSF
11-25-2012, 07:05 AM
Prove it.

Oh My!! This is wonderful.. by your argument, Bonds is also innocent. I always knew he was clean, thank you for this!

Its not like Pujols career began during the height of the consequence-free steroid era and his body type is exactly the same as Bonds.

If the estimated statistics of player steroid use being thrown out there by credible sources are between 65%-90%, wouldn't you then be the one that needs to prove that Pujols is clean? If you believe Pujols is the exception to the steroid era, Prove it.

MetsFanatic19
11-25-2012, 12:46 PM
Bonds. When he wasn't mashing the ball, he was getting walked.

Both are great players, among the best we've ever seen, but I'd take Bonds every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

SenorGato
11-25-2012, 05:54 PM
I miss Barry Bonds in baseball. Like Jordan when he was in the NBA, I did not appreciate seeing him play nearly enough until I no longer could.

Gandalf
12-01-2012, 03:22 PM
Albert he did not use steroids

Greedy22
12-02-2012, 04:03 AM
Juice or no juice Bonds is better.

bchissie
12-08-2012, 10:54 PM
Yeah Pujols is a great great player. But this has to be Bonds, hands down.

nymetsrule
12-09-2012, 05:03 PM
It's not cheating if 90% of your peers are doing it.

Tell that to the students in Harvard that got thrown out recently.

ZurEnArrh
12-31-2012, 04:35 PM
Bonds.

I miss the steroid era. Was terrible for the players hearts and penis sizes but great for the fans.

Krush
01-02-2013, 07:05 PM
It looks like like Bonds probably began using PED's in 1993... Going by power surge.

WadeKobe
01-11-2013, 06:13 PM
It looks like like Bonds probably began using PED's in 1993... Going by power surge.

Power surge? How about a better explanation, at age 28 he hit his physical prime and started hitting the weights more, focusing on hitting more, and had power numbers rise in 1992 the way one would expect a player's power numbers to go up during their prime?

Saying that a player had a "power surge" during the prime years of their career, and therefore they started using PEDs, is about as nonsensical as it gets. Stop hating.

LoveMeOrHateMe
01-30-2013, 03:18 AM
Bonds is my favorite player ever so him!
But I'm rooting for pujols to break bonds record since he's an angel now!

ZurEnArrh
01-30-2013, 06:35 AM
Pujols

PujolsLebronRG3
04-14-2013, 11:05 PM
To that point?

Age 32?


Sure, they are very close.


89.0 rWAR for Bonds - .282/.408/.551 with gold glove defense in left and some time in center
vs 88.5 rWAR for Pujols - .325/.414/.608 with gold glove defense at first

Pujols was the better hitter, Bonds the better fielder at a harder position

I'd say these two are equal.

Now what Bonds did post 97 though, is highly unlikely to be replicated. However, if it is, Pujols will more than earn his contract



Dude. 1 word. Steroids.

Sandman
04-15-2013, 12:49 AM
It's not cheating if 90% of your peers are doing it.
So if everybody at the bar drives home drunk, its all good?

That analogy doesn't work considering pitchers used steroids as well.
That doesn't make it an equalizer. It helps a guy like Bonds or Clemens play like he's 25 when he's got the veteran experience at 40.

As far as pitchers are concerned too, I think the steroid era saw a lot more players (esp relievers) make the majors with a good fastball and nothing to back it up. The harder its thrown the harder it can be hit.

DukeOvErl
04-18-2013, 11:51 AM
pretty sad Bonds career is overshadowed by allegations (which have never been proven) because in all reality he is the greatest ALL AROUND baseball player EVER. Period.

Sandman
04-18-2013, 12:40 PM
pretty sad Bonds career is overshadowed by admissions (in which he said he never took them "knowingly") because in all reality he is the greatest ALL AROUND baseball player EVER. Asterisk.

fixed

bagwell368
04-19-2013, 07:21 AM
It looks like like Bonds probably began using PED's in 1993... Going by power surge.

Do what I did. Get a picture of him every year from age 17 up. It's 1999/2000 that his head and body took a severe turn from what he had been. Try a 1997 vs 2001 comparison - whoa...

bagwell368
04-19-2013, 07:26 AM
pretty sad Bonds career is overshadowed by allegations (which have never been proven) because in all reality he is the greatest ALL AROUND baseball player EVER. Period.

That's crap. If you remove his obviously juiced seasons, and give him a decline phase such as other top 12 MLB hitters such as Ted and Musial, and his career hitting stats come out similar to Musial with a lower BA, and a higher SLG. He'd clearly fit into the top 10 all time, throw in his very plus fielding in LF (which probably would have been better the last 3rd of his career if he was 35 lbs lighter), and his base running, and he's likely top 5 positional player, with no shadow over him.

No player in MLB histroy has EVER had a spike in performance like Bonds starting at age 34 forward. It's ersatz, and anyone that glories in it - isn't being objective.

Sandman
04-19-2013, 02:39 PM
Do what I did. Get a picture of him every year from age 17 up. It's 1999/2000 that his head and body took a severe turn from what he had been. Try a 1997 vs 2001 comparison - whoa...
also look at today and how hes shrunk

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/daily-pitch/2012/07/26/bondsx-large.jpg

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Barry+Bonds/USA+Pro+Challenge+Stage+Three/lEw6X1okqSW

DukeOvErl
04-21-2013, 07:50 AM
That's crap. If you remove his obviously juiced seasons, and give him a decline phase such as other top 12 MLB hitters such as Ted and Musial, and his career hitting stats come out similar to Musial with a lower BA, and a higher SLG. He'd clearly fit into the top 10 all time, throw in his very plus fielding in LF (which probably would have been better the last 3rd of his career if he was 35 lbs lighter), and his base running, and he's likely top 5 positional player, with no shadow over him.

No player in MLB histroy has EVER had a spike in performance like Bonds starting at age 34 forward. It's ersatz, and anyone that glories in it - isn't being objective.


IF If If...Not one test proving hed been on anything has ever come out just like pujols, which you cant say he hasnt been on something since the begining of his career. Bottom line is Bonds was the greatest hitter ever, which players hitting stats always get better with age, while his fielding DID decline & so did his base stealing. Remember hes the only Mr 500/500, & at the end he just had it so good at the plate he only had to worry about location because he had 1 of the quickest swings, the best eye & reaction...& i dont know how many PEDs give you that kind of enhancements.

DukeOvErl
04-21-2013, 07:53 AM
also look at today and how hes shrunk

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/daily-pitch/2012/07/26/bondsx-large.jpg

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Barry+Bonds/USA+Pro+Challenge+Stage+Three/lEw6X1okqSW

so hes biking now and not training for baseball, peoples bodies can change depending on how they workout

& dont get me wrong im not saying he DID NOT do anything or he DID do some PEDs, but he has NEVER had a bad test & if he did im sure it wasnt even enough to really make that big of a difference in his game..

Sandman
04-21-2013, 10:56 AM
IF If If...Not one test proving hed been on anything has ever come out just like pujols, which you cant say he hasnt been on something since the begining of his career.
Drugs tests, no, he did not fail any. He also admitted to using "the cream" and "the clear." So... I don't think people are waiting for a drug test anymore.

Bottom line is Bonds was the greatest hitter ever, which players hitting stats always get better with age, while his fielding DID decline & so did his base stealing. Remember hes the only Mr 500/500, & at the end he just had it so good at the plate he only had to worry about location because he had 1 of the quickest swings, the best eye & reaction...& i dont know how many PEDs give you that kind of enhancements.
I don't think anybody ever said anything about his swing or eye and reaction. In fact, the guy you're arguing with said that if you take out the seasons he appears juiced, he's still a hall of famer. The argument is that when you take these drugs at 32+ you turn into a guy with a 25 year old body and a 10 year veteran's experience and that is what leads to 73 home runs.

so hes biking now and not training for baseball, peoples bodies can change depending on how they workout
Including their steroid diet.

& dont get me wrong im not saying he DID NOT do anything or he DID do some PEDs, but he has NEVER had a bad test & if he did im sure it wasnt even enough to really make that big of a difference in his game..
So you're saying steroids have no effect?

Shlumpledink
04-23-2013, 01:29 PM
Bonds was still on the path to first ballot hall of fame before the juice, but he wasn't a better hitter than Pujols before. He used to be my favorite player, the way he looked in the outfield was scary good. I've never seen a left fielder play so shallow and still keep himself in great position. So bonds definitely has him in the speed and defense portion of the game

DukeOvErl
04-26-2013, 06:12 PM
Drugs tests, no, he did not fail any. He also admitted to using "the cream" and "the clear." So... I don't think people are waiting for a drug test anymore.

I don't think anybody ever said anything about his swing or eye and reaction. In fact, the guy you're arguing with said that if you take out the seasons he appears juiced, he's still a hall of famer. The argument is that when you take these drugs at 32+ you turn into a guy with a 25 year old body and a 10 year veteran's experience and that is what leads to 73 home runs.

Including their steroid diet.

So you're saying steroids have no effect?

so putting cream on your elbow makes you hella buff?

and you can say he steriods lead to 73 but it would be hard to say bonds was on anything at the end of his career when he was getting walked the most and hitting HRs dam near everytime he wasnt walked...

and No steriods does NOT make you better at hitting a baseball

Sandman
04-26-2013, 06:25 PM
so putting cream on your elbow makes you hella buff?
Are you trying to imply he was using moisturizer? :facepalm:

and you can say he steriods lead to 73 but it would be hard to say bonds was on anything at the end of his career when he was getting walked the most and hitting HRs dam near everytime he wasnt walked...
I don't see what walking has to do with whether or not he did steroids.

and No steriods does NOT make you better at hitting a baseball
Steroids don't help you hit a baseball. Thats the duh statement of the topic. Anybody that thinks otherwise can look at Jose's twin brother OZZIE Canseco. BUT you are also very naive to ignore the fact that baseball is obviously an athletic competition.

Why are there no 50 year old players in MLB? Is Barry any better or worse AT HITTING A BASEBALL than he was 15 years ago? Or has age lead to a natural decline in his physical condition?

That is where steroids come into play. They help your body maintain a physical condition that wasn't possible without them.

rjkgr
08-22-2013, 03:46 PM
hands down barry!!!! he was never tested positive so everyone got to stop hating..... and everyone now who is on roids i dont see them hitting 73 homers in a season who breaking records

Sandman
08-22-2013, 03:56 PM
hands down barry!!!! he was never tested positive so everyone got to stop hating..... and everyone now who is on roids i dont see them hitting 73 homers in a season who breaking records
lol are you trying to say he never used steroids because he never tested positive?

you realize that he's admitted to it right?

flips333
08-24-2013, 10:25 AM
lol are you trying to say he never used steroids because he never tested positive?

you realize that he's admitted to it right?

There is something about the love of a fan that is beautiful.

Seriously I see no way to make this comparison. Even with weighted averages....

1. We don't know if Pujols took steroids. If he did it's barry hands down. But lets assume he didn't cause I have no real reason to think he did.

2. We know Barry used, he admitted it. So it's almost impossible to compare Late Barry's numbers against Pujols.

3. So early Bonds then vs Early Pujols. Well the late eighties through the early 90s were a very different time in baseball compared to the early 2000s so we would have to use those weighted numbers. Those weighted numbers for the 200s include steroid users. Thus with the weights pujols is going to look worse because the those weights include the steroid users. Think about how much better Pujols numbers are relative to the rest of baseball if you pull Bonds, Arod, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, out of the league for his time. And there is no way to adjust for the effect of steoids (which quite frankly is a huge*?) because A we don't know how many steroid users and B we don't actually have any clue how big of an effect steroids have.

So that leaves me with roughly my eyes... sorry stats hounds there are just too many unknowns in those variables and I don't care what numbers you throw at me it's all fundamentally flawed. So I have my gut and what the guys say and what their results were for their teams. Bonds was on some great teams early in his career and towards the end of his career. He failed where pujols succeeded (I understand as a team, but the point of MLB is to win a WS not to hit a HR). The other issue is Bonds was openly hostile to pretty much everyone and set himself apart from the team. So If I could have one at the beginning of their career I would take Pujols by a hair.

Sandman
08-24-2013, 10:51 AM
There is something about the love of a fan that is beautiful.

Seriously I see no way to make this comparison. Even with weighted averages....

1. We don't know if Pujols took steroids. If he did it's barry hands down. But lets assume he didn't cause I have no real reason to think he did.

2. We know Barry used, he admitted it. So it's almost impossible to compare Late Barry's numbers against Pujols.

3. So early Bonds then vs Early Pujols. Well the late eighties through the early 90s were a very different time in baseball compared to the early 2000s so we would have to use those weighted numbers. Those weighted numbers for the 200s include steroid users. Thus with the weights pujols is going to look worse because the those weights include the steroid users. Think about how much better Pujols numbers are relative to the rest of baseball if you pull Bonds, Arod, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, out of the league for his time. And there is no way to adjust for the effect of steoids (which quite frankly is a huge*?) because A we don't know how many steroid users and B we don't actually have any clue how big of an effect steroids have.

So that leaves me with roughly my eyes... sorry stats hounds there are just too many unknowns in those variables and I don't care what numbers you throw at me it's all fundamentally flawed. So I have my gut and what the guys say and what their results were for their teams. Bonds was on some great teams early in his career and towards the end of his career. He failed where pujols succeeded (I understand as a team, but the point of MLB is to win a WS not to hit a HR). The other issue is Bonds was openly hostile to pretty much everyone and set himself apart from the team. So If I could have one at the beginning of their career I would take Pujols by a hair.
I agree with you for the most part. Pujols is clean right now but I'm not assuming anything about him. I have a funny feeling every time he overreacts to some report of him using PEDs.

Tbombz
05-16-2014, 04:27 PM
During his juiced up years, BONDS!!!!!!!

Comparing his juiced up years to anyone else in any point in history is like comparing a Mac Truck to a Tonka Truck.

And yes, steroids, can actually improve hand-eye coordination and reflexes. you just have to train properly for it. if all your doing is lifting weights and eating a bunch of food, you will grow big but less flexible and more rigid. but if your training properly, whatever you are practicing, you will get better at.

jej
05-20-2014, 09:42 AM
There is something about the love of a fan that is beautiful.

Seriously I see no way to make this comparison. Even with weighted averages....

1. We don't know if Pujols took steroids. If he did it's barry hands down. But lets assume he didn't cause I have no real reason to think he did.

2. We know Barry used, he admitted it. So it's almost impossible to compare Late Barry's numbers against Pujols.

3. So early Bonds then vs Early Pujols. Well the late eighties through the early 90s were a very different time in baseball compared to the early 2000s so we would have to use those weighted numbers. Those weighted numbers for the 200s include steroid users. Thus with the weights pujols is going to look worse because the those weights include the steroid users. Think about how much better Pujols numbers are relative to the rest of baseball if you pull Bonds, Arod, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, out of the league for his time. And there is no way to adjust for the effect of steoids (which quite frankly is a huge*?) because A we don't know how many steroid users and B we don't actually have any clue how big of an effect steroids have.

So that leaves me with roughly my eyes... sorry stats hounds there are just too many unknowns in those variables and I don't care what numbers you throw at me it's all fundamentally flawed. So I have my gut and what the guys say and what their results were for their teams. Bonds was on some great teams early in his career and towards the end of his career. He failed where pujols succeeded (I understand as a team, but the point of MLB is to win a WS not to hit a HR). The other issue is Bonds was openly hostile to pretty much everyone and set himself apart from the team. So If I could have one at the beginning of their career I would take Pujols by a hair.

Yikes. Asking us to take a random fans eye test, and to place team performance over individual performance when judging in individual? No thanks.

No **** the goal is to win. But one player CANNOT win the entire year for his team. We see AT MOST 10 wins come from one player. That's as little as 10% of team wins from one player. So pardon me if I don't see that as a compelling argument for one player versus the other.

Jeffy25
05-20-2014, 01:14 PM
Yikes. Asking us to take a random fans eye test, and to place team performance over individual performance when judging in individual? No thanks.

No **** the goal is to win. But one player CANNOT win the entire year for his team. We see AT MOST 10 wins come from one player. That's as little as 10% of team wins from one player. So pardon me if I don't see that as a compelling argument for one player versus the other.

Kind of a hostile response.

Flips pretty clearly said his issue with making any comps based on numbers. He sees too many unknowns, and that's mainly because of steroids and the cross of eras.

That's a fine opinion to have.

If you could pick either player first overall in the draft and have their entire career, which player would you rather have?

Well Bonds had better performances, and was never suspended for use. So I would take him in the sense that there are raw better numbers, and he performed better, despite having worse team mates than Pujols.

But I would rather have Pujols the person in my organization for his entire career. But I would rather have the numbers that Bonds put up.

I think what Flips said was fine. It's his opinion, he stated why he felt that way. He isn't challenging anyone or saying he is right. He is saying why he is picking Pujols by a hair. Doesn't make him right or wrong, but at least he defended it with a well thought out statement. I respect that.


And he barely mentioned the team success aspect. It's was a minor point he made.

jej
05-20-2014, 01:29 PM
Normally you go after the eye test and teammate contribution too....

Jeffy25
05-20-2014, 01:44 PM
Normally you go after the eye test and teammate contribution too....

Yes....but it was an incredibly minor part of his post, that's all AND, he says he understands the counter argument.

It's not Bonds fault he didn't win a ring, nor is it Ted Williams', and Pujols isn't solely responsible for his two rings either.

But it was such a minor part of his post.

jej
05-20-2014, 08:41 PM
Yes....but it was an incredibly minor part of his post, that's all AND, he says he understands the counter argument.

It's not Bonds fault he didn't win a ring, nor is it Ted Williams', and Pujols isn't solely responsible for his two rings either.

But it was such a minor part of his post.

It was basically his conclusion. Not all that minor.

canefandynasty
05-21-2014, 07:24 AM
Pujols was a near 10 WAR player once in his career. He was consistently great, but if I'm beginning a team, it's Bonds easily.

ben_watson_84
08-12-2015, 12:26 AM
Looking at it today:

Bonds (86-00) 165 OPS+, 111.1 WAR (9141 PA)
Pujols (01-15) 161 OPS+, 99.7 WAR (9693 PA)

Neutralized:
BB: .295/.418/.577
AP: .318/.403/.591

Bonds started juicing in 99 reportedly, so this is 1041 PAs of the sample. If you really hold that against him you can factor it out.

his neutral line from 86-98 (through 33) .297/.419/.569 vs AP (through 33) .322/.411/.601

OPS+/ WAR (through 33)
Bonds: 164/ 99.6 (8100 PA)
Pujols: 165/ 92.5 (8546 PA)

Its close both ways, but I'll take Bonds since he was a LF and has less PA.

Sandman
08-14-2015, 10:18 PM
Having to guess when Barry started using PEDs is the reason his legacy is completely shot.

Jeffy25
08-19-2015, 05:03 AM
Having to guess when Barry started using PEDs is the reason his legacy is completely shot.
Except you have the same problem with every player from his generation.

Can we stop acting like Barry is the only one, or one of the only one's that used PED's? In either his era or all-time

ShinobiNYC
09-27-2015, 09:23 PM
Looking at it today:

Bonds (86-00) 165 OPS+, 111.1 WAR (9141 PA)
Pujols (01-15) 161 OPS+, 99.7 WAR (9693 PA)

Neutralized:
BB: .295/.418/.577
AP: .318/.403/.591

Bonds started juicing in 99 reportedly, so this is 1041 PAs of the sample. If you really hold that against him you can factor it out.

his neutral line from 86-98 (through 33) .297/.419/.569 vs AP (through 33) .322/.411/.601

OPS+/ WAR (through 33)
Bonds: 164/ 99.6 (8100 PA)
Pujols: 165/ 92.5 (8546 PA)

Its close both ways, but I'll take Bonds since he was a LF and has less PA.

As much as I love Pujols but even him is not safe from the PED accusations. Now and down the line when the HOF vote comes up.

So we can never assume as far as who did what and when.

CardinalRed24
02-03-2016, 03:02 PM
This is not a debate. Anyone who would say Bonds either is from SF or just has no idea what they're talking about.
Pujols' is the best hitter in major league baseball since the start of the new millennium with Miggy coming in as a close 2nd.

Bonds cheated. And while some do suspect Albert may very well have done the same, I do not.
And in that case, there is no debate. If it wasn't for Bonds and his mega steroid phase, Pujols' would not only have 3 MVP's he would at the very least have another 2-3 more MVP awards.

What Pujols' did in STL from his rookie year until he left for the Angels will not be matched for a very long time. In his time in STL Alberto managed to break Lou Gehrig's record of 10 straight seasons with a .300+avg/ 30+hrs /100+rbi in consecutive season's.

The answer is Albert Pujols'.

kaufen
03-01-2017, 04:51 AM
Yeah Pujols is a great great player.