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Ebbs
10-22-2012, 08:11 PM
Lets make this harder you can't pick someone still playing. It can be anybody you feel is vastly over hyped and has officially hung it up.

abe_froman
10-22-2012, 08:15 PM
first that comes to mind is reggie miller(still great player)but anytime a topic is started about him ,there seems to be a great many that come out.but the king of this has to be pete maravich

StarvingKnick22
10-22-2012, 08:17 PM
Reggie Miller, Alonzo Mourning.

Andrew32
10-22-2012, 08:18 PM
Wilt Chamberlain.

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 08:19 PM
Pistol Pete I was sure would be mentioned. I don't know about Reggie because he was a very good player that kept a team solid for a while. I don't think I ever here his name mentioned with all time greats.

I may get blasted for this but to me it may be Bill Russel. I know he was a hard worker, defensive dynamo, 13x champion etc. . . But his numbers paled in comparison to his arch rival and he was one of those guys who got to play in a watered down league on by far the best team most of his career.

abe_froman
10-22-2012, 08:21 PM
Pistol Pete I was sure would be mentioned. I don't know about Reggie because he was a very good player that kept a team solid for a while. I don't think I ever here his name mentioned with all time greats.

you might want to look up a couple threads recently on ranking sg's all time or the reggie miller thread about a month or 2 ago,really any all time sg or thread about him that pops up

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 08:29 PM
At times Jordan. People make it seem as if it's impossible to surpass him.

Overall, I'd say between pistol Pete and webber :c
(

KnicksorBust
10-22-2012, 08:33 PM
Pistol Pete I was sure would be mentioned. I don't know about Reggie because he was a very good player that kept a team solid for a while. I don't think I ever here his name mentioned with all time greats.

I may get blasted for this but to me it may be Bill Russel. I know he was a hard worker, defensive dynamo, 13x champion etc. . . But his numbers paled in comparison to his arch rival and he was one of those guys who got to play in a watered down league on by far the best team most of his career.

Overrated by who? PSD slams him all the time as a one-dimensional player who is inferior to the other all-time great centers.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 08:33 PM
Maravich.

GiantsSwaGG
10-22-2012, 08:35 PM
Mourning

P Harvy
10-22-2012, 08:35 PM
Wilt

Chronz
10-22-2012, 08:36 PM
Antoine Walker is still seen as an All-Star player by some

Pistol Pete

JPS
10-22-2012, 08:37 PM
Hakeem on PSD

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-22-2012, 08:38 PM
kobe ballhog cancer overrated chucker had shaq had gasol had bynum had world peace/artest/worldwar had fisher had odom had nash had dwight rapist wanted out of la ran shaq out of town kobephile bryant

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 08:38 PM
Overrated by who? PSD slams him all the time as a one-dimensional player who is inferior to the other all-time great centers.

He still went super high on that PSD all time player thread thing. And I have heard analysts mention him with Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, etc. . . as the best ever.

Slimsim
10-22-2012, 08:38 PM
Allen Iverson

P Harvy
10-22-2012, 08:38 PM
kobe ballhog cancer overrated chucker had shaq had gasol had bynum had world peace/artest/worldwar had fisher had odom had nash had dwight rapist wanted out of la ran shaq out of town kobephile bryant

You try too hard to be funny.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-22-2012, 08:39 PM
On PSD? Probably AI.


Reggie Miller gets overrated by some and Pistol Pete does as well.

PatsSoxKnicks
10-22-2012, 08:43 PM
I may get blasted for this but to me it may be Bill Russel. I know he was a hard worker, defensive dynamo, 13x champion etc. . . But his numbers paled in comparison to his arch rival and he was one of those guys who got to play in a watered down league on by far the best team most of his career.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing ebbs, so you aren't alone. I feel like we've had that convo before though.

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 08:51 PM
On PSD? Probably AI.


Reggie Miller gets overrated by some and Pistol Pete does as well.

Hoenstly on PSD I would argue AI is hella underrated.


Yeah I was thinking the same thing ebbs, so you aren't alone. I feel like we've had that convo before though.

I'm not sure we have but I'm glad we're united.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 08:53 PM
On PSD's list it seems like John Stockton. For him to be ranked #18 all time.

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 08:54 PM
JB can you link us to that thread again

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-22-2012, 08:54 PM
Hoenstly on PSD I would argue AI is hella underrated.



I'm not sure we have but I'm glad we're united.

I'm guessing you missed the thread where someone said that AI's prime was just as good as LeBron's and half of the people in there agreed with the OP?

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 08:55 PM
JB can you link us to that thread again

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635088

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 08:57 PM
I'm guessing you missed the thread where someone said that AI's prime was just as good as LeBron's and half of the people in there agreed with the OP?

Yea I did for sure but people also said he wasn't top 50 all time which enfuriarted me.

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 08:59 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635088

Yea I stick by Russel as my most overrated.

I'd take 6-10 (Bird, Shaq, Bryant, Hakeem, Duncan) over Bill.

Also Dr.J feels a little high on this list to me as well.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 09:00 PM
Iverson is only overrated on PSD. I don't think most analysts put him anywhere near the top 20-25 convo.

pd7631
10-22-2012, 09:02 PM
Iverson is only overrated on PSD. I don't think most analysts put him anywhere near the top 20-25 convo.

Shaq said he was a top 5 player all time.

PurpleJesus
10-22-2012, 09:07 PM
Shaq said he was a top 5 player all time.

I dont think Shaq can be regarded as a credible analyst.

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 09:10 PM
i dont think shaq can be regarded as a credible analyst.

x1000000000

pd7631
10-22-2012, 09:15 PM
I dont think Shaq can be regarded as a credible analyst.

Not sure what makes him any less credible than most of the jamokes that call themselves "analysts". At least Shaq played the game, and it just shows the respect he has for AI. I'll take the word of all the people that have coached, played with, and played against AI, over anything anyone on this site has to say.

Andrew32
10-22-2012, 09:16 PM
I think that Larry Legend is also generally slightly overrated in an All-Time sense.

His Peak was sick! as was his Prime but in terms of consistency over his career he isn't the greatest and the same can be said for his overall longevity.

He shouldn't be ranked over Shaq and I think that Duncan has a good case to be over him also.

JNA17
10-22-2012, 09:23 PM
Bill Russell and Shaq by far, and I'm a lakers fan lol.

BigEasy1323
10-22-2012, 09:25 PM
Mark Jackson

PurpleJesus
10-22-2012, 09:26 PM
Not sure what makes him any less credible than most of the jamokes that call themselves "analysts". At least Shaq played the game, and it just shows the respect he has for AI. I'll take the word of all the people that have coached, played with, and played against AI, over anything anyone on this site has to say.

According to Shaq, there are 4 top 5 players of all time that played in his generation...himself, Iverson, Wade and Kobe. Shaq's opinion on players holds zero value...this is the same guy who has said that Brook Lopez is a better player than Dwight Howard.

TheIlladelph16
10-22-2012, 09:29 PM
I'm a huge AI fan but:

1. He is overrated on PSD
2. Shaq saying he is a top 5 player is an absolute joke. Come on now... Please don't use Shaq as the voice of wisdom here.

Also Russel, Stockton, Marovich are all overrated a bit.

Andrew32
10-22-2012, 09:30 PM
and I'm a lakers fan lol.
I forgot how all Laker fans love Shaq. :rolleyes:

Raidaz4Life
10-22-2012, 09:34 PM
Oscar Robertson (probably going to take a lot of heat for this one)

Raps18-19 Champ
10-22-2012, 09:40 PM
Bill Russell.

Fly
10-22-2012, 09:40 PM
Wilt

Andrew32
10-22-2012, 10:10 PM
Oscar Robertson (probably going to take a lot of heat for this one)

I disagree but I won't give you heat for it.

HowFit
10-22-2012, 10:12 PM
Pistol Pete...

heyman321
10-22-2012, 10:24 PM
Wilt

Evolution23
10-22-2012, 11:34 PM
kobe ballhog cancer overrated chucker had shaq had gasol had bynum had world peace/artest/worldwar had fisher had odom had nash had dwight rapist wanted out of la ran shaq out of town kobephile bryant

Relax, no one hates the Lakers or cares that much about them. It's all in your head.

Supreme LA
10-23-2012, 12:16 AM
At times Jordan. People make it seem as if it's impossible to surpass him.

Overall, I'd say between pistol Pete and webber :c
(

MJ??? The same guy who lived upto and even surpassed his own hype every time people doubted him??? MJ is not overrated.

The reason why it's impossible to pass him is because you can't have a better storybook career then he had. Lebron had a shot but that totally went out the window after he lost in the Finals to the Spurs the first time and he definitely shut that door when he teamed up with Wade and Bosh.

MJ is the only player in history to have the amount of success he did being the only guy on his team drawing double and triple teams. And yes, like Kenny Smith said, he carried that load for his entire career.

Started his NBA career coming off a game-winning shot in college and then ended his Chicago career with a game winning shot.
6 for 6 in the NBA Finals
Owned the entire league on both ends of the floor throughout his whole career.
Mastered every aspect of the game possible.
Globalized the game of basketball itself.
The list goes on...

The players of today owe everything to MJ from their ridiculous contracts and shoe endorsements. MJ is not overrated. No fan or any player would even suggest the idea during his day. It's only the young kids who who didn't have the pleasure of watching him play that cannot value or appreciate how great he truly was.

shep33
10-23-2012, 12:37 AM
Bill Walton

shep33
10-23-2012, 12:38 AM
Gervin, Nate Archibald, Alonzo Mourning, Maravich... mmm probably a few more I'm missing.

looka09
10-23-2012, 12:40 AM
Bill Russell and Shaq by far, and I'm a lakers fan lol.

Why Shaq?

looka09
10-23-2012, 12:45 AM
And maravich is overrated by who?I never seen him play so i don't know why is he overrated,he's not even on that list of the top 50 players for this site.

InRoseWeTrust
10-23-2012, 12:45 AM
Lol at people saying Jordan

popo85
10-23-2012, 12:59 AM
McGrady

LakersMaster24
10-23-2012, 01:03 AM
On PSD's list it seems like John Stockton. For him to be ranked #18 all time.

Stockton is a Top 2 PG of All-Time. Him being ranked #18 is not THAT crazy.

Once again, you think T-Mac is a Top 50 player of All-Time. :facepalm:

Ebbs
10-23-2012, 01:07 AM
Stockton is a Top 2 PG of All-Time. Him being ranked #18 is not THAT crazy.

Once again, you think T-Mac is a Top 50 player of All-Time. :facepalm:

I think he is. I don't know why you don't? Though I'm sure you won't reply go ahead and give me 49 better players.

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-23-2012, 01:27 AM
Bill russell

Korman12
10-23-2012, 01:44 AM
Dominique Wilkins.

A great player, no doubt, but similar to why Reggie Miller is slightly overrated. Except Wilkin's needed a much higher usage percentage and that his teams were worse than Millers.

ewing
10-23-2012, 01:46 AM
I agree with Walton. I a little to young to have seen him but it seems like his legend is built of how great he was before he got hurt super early in his career


AI came to mind

smood999
10-23-2012, 02:36 AM
McGrady

I second this...he wasn't good enough for long enough...should never be on a top 50 all time list

smood999
10-23-2012, 02:39 AM
I think he is. I don't know why you don't? Though I'm sure you won't reply go ahead and give me 49 better players.

The thing I see is everyone just focuses in on McGrady at his best...most guys get on these types of lists based their complete body of work....can't just put McGrady on the list cause of when he was at his best...it was too short lived

LakersMaster24
10-23-2012, 02:42 AM
I think he is. I don't know why you don't? Though I'm sure you won't reply go ahead and give me 49 better players.

You really think that T-Mac's whole career was good enough to be Hall of Fame worthy? Sure he had some incredible seasons but the dude was done by the age of 29.

If we only follow your idea of taking the best seasons to judge a player on the All-Time scale, then Grant Hill is a Top 50 player as well.

smood999
10-23-2012, 02:51 AM
You really think that T-Mac's whole career was good enough to be Hall of Fame worthy? Sure he had some incredible seasons but the dude was done by the age of 29.

If we only follow your idea of taking the best seasons to judge a player on the All-Time scale, then Grant Hill is a Top 50 player as well.

and Penny...but if both players (Hill and TMac) were able to stay healthy...I'd take Hill

Hellcrooner
10-23-2012, 04:01 AM
iverson.
and second place wouldnt even be close.

Hellcrooner
10-23-2012, 04:03 AM
Shaq said he was a top 5 player all time.

Shaq says lopez > howard.........:rolleyes:

Raidaz4Life
10-23-2012, 06:23 AM
I disagree but I won't give you heat for it.

Present your case, maybe you can convince me but I see no way Robertson is worth being ranked 11 all time by PSD. Also the fact that nobody else put him to me shows how overrated he actually is.

Chavacano
10-23-2012, 07:45 AM
William Felton Russell.

Knicks21
10-23-2012, 08:09 AM
Id say Jordan is pretty overrated, i do believe someone will surpass him one day, I also believe that Lebron does have the potential to pass michael.

Definitely not the most overrated tho.

basketfan4life
10-23-2012, 08:28 AM
Oscar Robertson.

thenaj17
10-23-2012, 08:58 AM
Pistol Pete I was sure would be mentioned. I don't know about Reggie because he was a very good player that kept a team solid for a while. I don't think I ever here his name mentioned with all time greats.

I may get blasted for this but to me it may be Bill Russel. I know he was a hard worker, defensive dynamo, 13x champion etc. . . But his numbers paled in comparison to his arch rival and he was one of those guys who got to play in a watered down league on by far the best team most of his career.

No complaints here. Everything you say below that is 100% correct (except championships won)

xcrisisx
10-23-2012, 09:07 AM
wilt chamberlain

b@llhog24
10-23-2012, 09:20 AM
I think he is. I don't know why you don't? Though I'm sure you won't reply go ahead and give me 49 better players.

The thing I see is everyone just focuses in on McGrady at his best...most guys get on these types of lists based their complete body of work....can't just put McGrady on the list cause of when he was at his best...it was too short lived

The thing is once you get passed bout 25 the list gets a little fuzzy. Different people value different things. (I.e Peak vs Longevity). Since McGrady has one of the top 5 peaks at SG some people gave him a vote.

Chronz
10-23-2012, 09:21 AM
The thing I see is everyone just focuses in on McGrady at his best...most guys get on these types of lists based their complete body of work....can't just put McGrady on the list cause of when he was at his best...it was too short lived

Thats not true though, his peak was short lived but he actually had a decent prime run. Less than like 30 players have ever made as many All-NBA teams as Tmac has. That means throughout his career few players played at a level worth awarding for as long as he did. I agree his peak run wasn't very long, but when you look at just how good he was overall and how demonstrably dominant he was as an invidivual throughout his greatest years (in the toughest defensive era no less), its kind of hard to ignore. He should have wound up in the Top-20 if he had never gotten injured, but thats life. Top-50 isnt out of his reach.

Chronz
10-23-2012, 09:21 AM
Stockton is a Top 2 PG of All-Time. Him being ranked #18 is not THAT crazy.

Once again, you think T-Mac is a Top 50 player of All-Time. :facepalm:

Stockton was overrated like crazy

Chronz
10-23-2012, 09:30 AM
You really think that T-Mac's whole career was good enough to be Hall of Fame worthy? Sure he had some incredible seasons but the dude was done by the age of 29.

If we only follow your idea of taking the best seasons to judge a player on the All-Time scale, then Grant Hill is a Top 50 player as well.

Hill was done by age 27 (as a superstar) and he didnt begin putting up huge numbers till he was 24. Basically he didn't start as soon as Tmac and didn't last as long as Tmac nor was he ever as productive as PEAK Tmac and lacks the same credentials (accolades wise). Your comparison is lacking....


and Penny...but if both players (Hill and TMac) were able to stay healthy...I'd take Hill

Why not take the guy who was better faster and reached a higher level of play? I mean do you know how rare it is to be so good that young?

Hitman21
10-23-2012, 09:37 AM
reggie miller

Chronz
10-23-2012, 09:43 AM
I can get behind an Oscar Roberston vote, that triple double really ****s with people who dont know how to translate stats.

Gram
10-23-2012, 10:17 AM
Bill Walton and Alonzo Mourning.

Bravo95
10-23-2012, 11:19 AM
Stockton.

dh144498
10-23-2012, 11:31 AM
Wilt chamberlain.

JordansBulls
10-23-2012, 11:40 AM
Stockton is a Top 2 PG of All-Time. Him being ranked #18 is not THAT crazy.

Once again, you think T-Mac is a Top 50 player of All-Time. :facepalm:

He was a guy who played with a top 15 player all time and never came close to winning mvp, how is that top 18 material all time?

MintBerryCrunch
10-23-2012, 11:50 AM
Hill was done by age 27 (as a superstar) and he didnt begin putting up huge numbers till he was 24. Basically he didn't start as soon as Tmac and didn't last as long as Tmac nor was he ever as productive as PEAK Tmac and lacks the same credentials (accolades wise). Your comparison is lacking....



Why not take the guy who was better faster and reached a higher level of play? I mean do you know how rare it is to be so good that young?

By your standards we should just put Durant in the HOF Now.. And he's been closer to a title than T-Mac ever was

Swashcuff
10-23-2012, 11:57 AM
Want a good gauge of who is under/overrated (and in some cases hated) take a look at Basketball Reference Elo Player Rating (http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi). It's the result of user voting so its not an official ranking by Basketball Reference.

Tumstock
10-23-2012, 11:58 AM
MJ??? The same guy who lived upto and even surpassed his own hype every time people doubted him??? MJ is not overrated.

The reason why it's impossible to pass him is because you can't have a better storybook career then he had. Lebron had a shot but that totally went out the window after he lost in the Finals to the Spurs the first time and he definitely shut that door when he teamed up with Wade and Bosh.

MJ is the only player in history to have the amount of success he did being the only guy on his team drawing double and triple teams. And yes, like Kenny Smith said, he carried that load for his entire career.

Started his NBA career coming off a game-winning shot in college and then ended his Chicago career with a game winning shot.
6 for 6 in the NBA Finals
Owned the entire league on both ends of the floor throughout his whole career.
Mastered every aspect of the game possible.
Globalized the game of basketball itself.
The list goes on...

The players of today owe everything to MJ from their ridiculous contracts and shoe endorsements. MJ is not overrated. No fan or any player would even suggest the idea during his day. It's only the young kids who who didn't have the pleasure of watching him play that cannot value or appreciate how great he truly was.

Good read!
I can only agree.

Chronz
10-23-2012, 12:13 PM
By your standards we should just put Durant in the HOF Now.. And he's been closer to a title than T-Mac ever was
You keep saying this but your not showing me "my standard". All your showing is that you dont understand whats being said.

JLynn943
10-23-2012, 12:35 PM
Judging from the Elo Player Ratings on basketball-reference, it's easily Maravich.

On a sort of unrelated note, I've always wondered what Jerry West's stats adjusted for pace would be. I've only found it for part of his career.

ZHawk1123
10-23-2012, 12:42 PM
Jeff Hornacek

Vinny Del Negro

Calbert Cheaney

JasonJohnHorn
10-23-2012, 01:05 PM
Jordan and Ewing.

Stinkyoutsider
10-23-2012, 01:32 PM
I've got to say Antoine Walker. I thought he was going to be a multiple time all star. After he started to become a jump shooter, his career went downhill. The thing that Walker made him serviceable was his ability to take guys off the dribble and also do a little damage inside. When he stopped doing that, he became a marginal player at best...

JordansBulls
10-23-2012, 02:04 PM
Jordan and Ewing.

Um no. Wilt is definitely one guy and probably Isiah as well.

Raidaz4Life
10-23-2012, 06:10 PM
I can get behind an Oscar Roberston vote, that triple double really ****s with people who dont know how to translate stats.

I got the Chronz seal of approval... my work is done, and you even made my point for me in terms of translating the triple double.

Andrew32
10-23-2012, 08:30 PM
I can get behind an Oscar Roberston vote, that triple double really ****s with people who dont know how to translate stats.
Even his pace adjusted numbers are very impressive and obviously pace adjustment is far from being a perfect thing.
It does not allow you to perfectly predict what a players numbers would be in different years/eras.

He was also absurdly efficient in comparison to his era and had the athleticism and skillset to translate and be a highly effective player in any era.

He was really a player with very few flaws.
One of the best all around players ever at his position.

I have him in my Top 15 and honestly I don't think him being at 11 is wrong.

xcrisisx
10-23-2012, 08:33 PM
I can get behind an Oscar Roberston vote, that triple double really ****s with people who dont know how to translate stats.

translate is to us $$$s please

JWO35
10-23-2012, 08:58 PM
Wilt Chamberlain & Michael Jordan

MadVillainZay
10-23-2012, 09:10 PM
You try too hard to be funny.

WAY too hard.

Raidaz4Life
10-24-2012, 06:59 AM
Even his pace adjusted numbers are very impressive and obviously pace adjustment is far from being a perfect thing.
It does not allow you to perfectly predict what a players numbers would be in different years/eras.

He was also absurdly efficient in comparison to his era and had the athleticism and skillset to translate and be a highly effective player in any era.

He was really a player with very few flaws.
One of the best all around players ever at his position.

I have him in my Top 15 and honestly I don't think him being at 11 is wrong.



Absurdly? In what sense was Oscar Robertson absurdly efficient... He was relatively efficient for that time period (no guarantee that would carry over to today's game), but hardly the night and day difference you're making it out to be. Not to mention he played a large volume of minutes, his per 36 minute stats before even being adjusted for pace are hardly worth writing home about. Then you adjust for pace and he comes out to a great player with their being a lot more deserving of that number 11 spot.


Not to mention the guy missed out on the playoffs so many times that you would have to at least consider that a knock.

lamzoka
10-24-2012, 09:19 AM
Id say Jordan is pretty overrated, i do believe someone will surpass him one day, I also believe that Lebron does have the potential to pass michael.

Definitely not the most overrated tho.

Jordan 6/6 in finals (could've easily been 8/8)
LeBron 1/3 in finals
No chance
Now he can definitely go down as the 2nd greatest player of all time. No question about that, but surpass M.J. never.

theheatles
10-24-2012, 09:56 AM
this is harder?

Michael Jordan, he's the 2nd most overrated human being in the history of the world only behind Jesus Christ

Swashcuff
10-24-2012, 11:11 AM
Even his pace adjusted numbers are very impressive and obviously pace adjustment is far from being a perfect thing.
It does not allow you to perfectly predict what a players numbers would be in different years/eras.

He was also absurdly efficient in comparison to his era and had the athleticism and skillset to translate and be a highly effective player in any era.

He was really a player with very few flaws.
One of the best all around players ever at his position.

I have him in my Top 15 and honestly I don't think him being at 11 is wrong.

Problem is every time anyone talks about Oscar they mention the fact that he had a season in which he averaged a triple double. In a pace adjusted NBA he would not have gotten close to averaging one even after we take all other variables into consideration. I too have him in my top 15 however.

I can certainly agree with everything else.

Swashcuff
10-24-2012, 11:30 AM
Absurdly? In what sense was Oscar Robertson absurdly efficient... He was relatively efficient for that time period (no guarantee that would carry over to today's game), but hardly the night and day difference you're making it out to be.

Ummmmm no. He was right the difference was indeed night and dayish.


Year LgAvTS% ORTS% Diff
1973-74 0.503 0.502 -0.001
1972-73 0.498 0.511 +0.013
1971-72 0.504 0.540 +0.036
1970-71 0.500 0.563 +0.063
1969-70 0.511 0.577 +0.066
1968-69 0.491 0.579 +0.088
1967-68 0.498 0.588 +0.090
1966-67 0.493 0.583 +0.090
1965-66 0.487 0.563 +0.076
1964-65 0.479 0.561 +0.082
1963-64 0.485 0.576 +0.091
1962-63 0.493 0.588 +0.095
1961-62 0.479 0.554 +0.075
1960-61 0.469 0.555 +0.086


That was a monumental difference. You'd be hard pressed to find much more efficient players relative to their era than Oscar Robertson.


Not to mention he played a large volume of minutes, his per 36 minute stats before even being adjusted for pace are hardly worth writing home about

Being able to play a large volume of minutes in a high paced environment bodes well for ones endurance and perceived athletic ability so IMO you can see it as both a minus and a plus.


Then you adjust for pace and he comes out to a great player with their being a lot more deserving of that number 11 spot.

I can dig this.


Not to mention the guy missed out on the playoffs so many times that you would have to at least consider that a knock.

Well as in everything we have to apply context. I think there is more to look at than just the fact that Oscar missed the post season for about 4 seasons in his prime. We gotta look further than just Oscar himself.

I Rock Shaqs
10-24-2012, 11:33 AM
Lol seems like people are just saying dumb stuff so they can get a reply. But then again I'm not even old enough to say anything about most of these players lol.

JordansBulls
10-24-2012, 12:14 PM
this is harder?

Michael Jordan, he's the 2nd most overrated human being in the history of the world only behind Jesus Christ

Dude you are an *** for saying this. Because you have no freaking idea what you are talking about with that.

Longhornfan1234
10-24-2012, 12:23 PM
Big O...and it's not even close.

Raidaz4Life
10-24-2012, 05:46 PM
Ummmmm no. He was right the difference was indeed night and dayish.


Year LgAvTS% ORTS% Diff
1973-74 0.503 0.502 -0.001
1972-73 0.498 0.511 +0.013
1971-72 0.504 0.540 +0.460
1970-71 0.5 0.563 +0.063
1969-70 0.511 0.577 +0.066
1968-69 0.491 0.579 +0.088
1967-68 0.498 0.588 +0.090
1966-67 0.493 0.583 +0.090
1965-66 0.487 0.563 +0.076
1964-65 0.479 0.561 +0.082
1963-64 0.485 0.576 +0.091
1962-63 0.493 0.588 +0.095
1961-62 0.479 0.554 +0.075
1960-61 0.469 0.555 +0.086


That was a monumental difference. You'd be hard pressed to find much more efficient players relative to their era than Oscar Robertson.






Well as in everything we have to apply context. I think there is more to look at than just the fact that Oscar missed the post season for about 4 seasons in his prime. We gotta look further than just Oscar himself.

I suppose efficiency numbers really were that much lower for that time period, but then again there is no way he holds that same night and day efficiency when playing in the same leagues that countless other hall of famers have played in.


I don't have anything personal against Oscar Robertson, I actually like him as a player. However a lot of his credibility as a borderline top 10 player of all time (I hear second best PG of all time thrown around a lot) comes from the illusion that is his 1961-62 season. A feat that he only accomplished once and isn't nearly as impressive as people make it out to be. Also, once again spin it however which way you want to, but his lack of playoff success really should knock him back a few spots on people's lists.


I would say he is a borderline top 20 player, but even then there are a lot of players ranked after 20 on the PSD list that I would take career wise over Oscar Robertson.

Swashcuff
10-25-2012, 12:01 AM
I suppose efficiency numbers really were that much lower for that time period, but then again there is no way he holds that same night and day efficiency when playing in the same leagues that countless other hall of famers have played in.

That's presumptuous. What Andrew stated was fact. None of us can defiantly state what the difference would be had Oscar played in this era but make no bones about it Oscar did indeed play against HOFers in his time and was an all time great regardless. Relative to era he was one of the most efficient players of all time.

Saying Oscar certainly won't be able to maintain that level of efficiency is basically like saying Shaq would not have been able to play in Oscar's time because of the pace and he'd break down due to wear and tear on his body.


I don't have anything personal against Oscar Robertson, I actually like him as a player. However a lot of his credibility as a borderline top 10 player of all time (I hear second best PG of all time thrown around a lot) comes from the illusion that is his 1961-62 season. A feat that he only accomplished once and isn't nearly as impressive as people make it out to be. Also, once again spin it however which way you want to, but his lack of playoff success really should knock him back a few spots on people's lists.

It surely isn't as impressive and people wrongly define his career by it without really applying the proper context. Think of how different Oscar would be viewed if he played for a team such as the Lakers instead of Jerry West.


I would say he is a borderline top 20 player, but even then there are a lot of players ranked after 20 on the PSD list that I would take career wise over Oscar Robertson.

I would say borderline top 15 but if someone puts him in there I'd take it. I think Oscar is a player whose career needs to be put into perspective whenever comparing to other top 20 all time greats.

Aust
10-25-2012, 12:09 AM
Wilt

PleaseBeNice
10-25-2012, 12:32 AM
Jordan.

IKnowHoops
10-25-2012, 01:23 AM
1st to me its Bill russell. I think that David Robinson, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Moses all out play him if they would of been able to play against him.

2nd Iverson is underated. Stockton is not better than him. Ask yourself this question. If you replace a prime Iverson with stockton, do you think that the Jazz win a ring with Prime Iverson, Prime Malone, Prime Hornacek? I think they win a ring, at least when Jordan left, but I think they could of maybe beat the bulls.

If you really remember watching Iverson, then you know that when it comes to trying stop a player 1 on 1 the order in NBA history goes...

Shaq
Jordan
Iverson
Lebron
Kobe

STL Don
10-25-2012, 02:08 AM
Michael is one of my favorite athletes of all time in any sport but he is overrated to some extent.

BigCityofDreams
10-25-2012, 01:44 PM
Pistol Pete

dh144498
10-25-2012, 01:59 PM
1st to me its Bill russell. I think that David Robinson, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Moses all out play him if they would of been able to play against him.

2nd Iverson is underated. Stockton is not better than him. Ask yourself this question. If you replace a prime Iverson with stockton, do you think that the Jazz win a ring with Prime Iverson, Prime Malone, Prime Hornacek? I think they win a ring, at least when Jordan left, but I think they could of maybe beat the bulls.

If you really remember watching Iverson, then you know that when it comes to trying stop a player 1 on 1 the order in NBA history goes...

Shaq
Jordan
Iverson
Lebron
Kobe

:facepalm:

bootleg42
10-25-2012, 02:01 PM
Pistol Pete

This.