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View Full Version : Is this the year people finally get scared to play against LeBron?



P Harvy
10-22-2012, 05:36 PM
I've heard a lot of talk that people have never really been intimated to play LeBron James.. At least not at a level like where people were intimated to play against Jordan.

Are people going to finally be scared of LeBron James? Or is that type of era over? Is todays NBA game just a game where people aren't intimated of other players?

In my opinion I think LeBron is going to come out and play like we've never seen him play before and it'll be interesting to see if opposing teams are really scared to go against this guy.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 05:46 PM
well i mean, if you saw the gm polls, majority said its a headache to make a gameplan against lebron..

so.. are you talking about coaches or individual players? because i doubt players are intimidated by anyone, including the people playing up against jordan.

DreamShaker
10-22-2012, 05:51 PM
I think that era is over. He might psych em out, but only in the playoffs, and only younger playets or bad coaches.

IndyRealist
10-22-2012, 05:55 PM
No one's scared to play Lebron because he doesn't have the same attitude as MJ. Lebron's not going to drop 50 on you because you were talking trash. He's not going to shoot free throws with his eyes closed, or force you to shoot 3-20 and talk about your girlfriend the entire time. He may be the best player of his generation and eventually one of the greatest of all time, but he's not MJ.

Blitzbolt
10-22-2012, 05:55 PM
Or small market teams.

Raidaz4Life
10-22-2012, 05:56 PM
Odd thread.... I think people will always respect Lebron and acknowledge you have to build your game plan around stopping him but I don't think anyone in the league is worth being afraid of. Nobody in the league has been that dominant. Lebron has only won one title.... not 4 or 5 like MJ. Plus they have different mentalities.... MJ and Lebron are hardly comparable personalities.

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 06:11 PM
Should have been scared 6 years ago.

I personally would never want to match up against anyone who was clearly superior across the board to me.

blastmasta26
10-22-2012, 06:12 PM
Who cares if people are intimidated by him or not? He's coming off a double MVP season, does fear even matter? Everyone knows he's a force.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:12 PM
They aren't scared to play him. Not like he outplays the stars or averages more than them or anything. Not to mention just barely won last season with the most allstars in the league on the team.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 06:21 PM
No one's scared to play Lebron because he doesn't have the same attitude as MJ. Lebron's not going to drop 50 on you because you were talking trash. He's not going to shoot free throws with his eyes closed, or force you to shoot 3-20 and talk about your girlfriend the entire time. He may be the best player of his generation and eventually one of the greatest of all time, but he's not MJ.

pretty much dude. LeBron himself doesn't embarrass you when you talk **** to him. Nobody is scared of LeBron, but I am sure every team gets up for playing against him. Nobody wants to fall asleep and have him make you look stupid.

DanG
10-22-2012, 06:23 PM
No, just talk trash to him.

Gibby23
10-22-2012, 06:24 PM
They aren't scared to play him. Not like he outplays the stars or averages more than them or anything. Not to mention just barely won last season with the most allstars in the league on the team.

It didn't even go 7 games. They won pretty easy.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:25 PM
It didn't even go 7 games. They won pretty easy.

Not referring to finals. I call down 3-2 in a series barely winning.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 06:26 PM
gibby just ignore him. lol he's not lookin at all the variables.

just let it go.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 06:30 PM
Not referring to finals. I call down 3-2 in a series barely winning.

way to put it in context dude. Bosh out, Wade gimping around. Where was the help then JB?

heyman321
10-22-2012, 06:34 PM
Not referring to finals. I call down 3-2 in a series barely winning.

You mean how they were down 3-2 then Lebron scored like 50 points to send it back to Miami and win the series?

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 06:36 PM
Not referring to finals. I call down 3-2 in a series barely winning.

you're so blindly biased it's enfuriating

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-22-2012, 06:37 PM
Scared to play against LeBron?

Last time I checked, it was 5-on-5. :confused:

Yanks All Day
10-22-2012, 06:37 PM
They aren't scared to play him. Not like he outplays the stars or averages more than them or anything. Not to mention just barely won last season with the most allstars in the league on the team.

The undisputed best player in the world doesn't outplay the other stars? :eyebrow:

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:40 PM
way to put it in context dude. Bosh out, Wade gimping around. Where was the help then JB?

Bosh played Game 5 when the Heat lost HCA. And Wade was there as well. Not like he was garbage. He certainly provided more help than any other 2nd guy on a team.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:40 PM
You mean how they were down 3-2 then Lebron scored like 50 points to send it back to Miami and win the series?

Still barely winning. The fact you are down 3-2 in a series as the favorite at that.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:41 PM
The undisputed best player in the world doesn't outplay the other stars? :eyebrow:

Well he didn't outplay Durant. Durant averaged 30.6 ppg on 55% FG while Lebron averaged 28.6 ppg on 48% FG and they played the same position as well.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 06:43 PM
Still barely winning. The fact you are down 3-2 in a series as the favorite at that.

again, zip context dude. Do you ever give any player who may potentially be looked at in the same breath as Mike credit?

Rhetorical question.

heyman321
10-22-2012, 06:44 PM
Well he didn't outplay Durant. Durant averaged 30.6 ppg on 55% FG while Lebron averaged 28.6 ppg on 48% FG and they played the same position as well.

Yeah, but how did Derrick Rose do?

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 06:44 PM
lol bosh came out from the bench in game 5.. haha

his first game back from injury and played FOURTEEN MINUTES. LOLL

he missed key moments during the 4th, and the heat ended up losing by 4.
and than the moment bosh started in game 6 and 7, the heat won. lol

jb youre so biased its really amusing to see the logic.

you get proven wrong all the time and still you're hellbent on being wrong lol too easy.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:45 PM
again, zip context dude. Do you ever give any player who may potentially be looked at in the same breath as Mike credit?

Rhetorical question.

Yes I do if they carry there franchise and not go beg for help from a guy who got it done as the man already.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 06:45 PM
Well he didn't outplay Durant. Durant averaged 30.6 ppg on 55% FG while Lebron averaged 28.6 ppg on 48% FG and they played the same position as well.

Wait, you are using per game stats to help your case? And the ppg and FG% to boot?

You are quickly joining the large pack of users who use the stats that only help their case, versus using them all, with context, and formulating your own opinion.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:46 PM
Yeah, but how did Derrick Rose do?

How did Shawn Marion do?

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 06:46 PM
apparently lebron was guarding durant and battier wasnt. LOL.

notice how all of durant's highlights in the finals were against battier, but no bro! Durant scored on lebron even tho lebron wasnt guarding him lol

typical.

now i know for a fact the dude is trolling lol noone is this delusional when kept being proven wrong by facts lol

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 06:46 PM
Yes I do if they carry there franchise and not go beg for help from a guy who got it done as the man already.

this tired old argument? Please.

Teeboy1487
10-22-2012, 06:47 PM
No. The only thing that scares me about Lebron is all the calls he gets.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:47 PM
Wait, you are using per game stats to help your case? And the ppg and FG% to boot?

You are quickly joining the large pack of users who use the stats that only help their case, versus using them all, with context, and formulating your own opinion.

No not really I am using the numbers to prove he didn't outplay him just like everyone always tries to use the myth that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the 1995 finals.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:50 PM
this tired old argument? Please.

How is that a tired old argument?

Let me ask you, what would you think of Kevin Garnett at his peak deciding to go play with someone like Duncan back in 2004?

You would think the same thing as Duncan was already a proven winner in his prime just like Wade is.

heyman321
10-22-2012, 06:51 PM
How did Shawn Marion do?

Lol what does Shawn Marion have to do with anything?

You're just angry Lebron will probably win MVP again this season and probably repeat as champs, don't know why. And your "never went to a franchise who had never won anything before" is as relevant an argument as my anus being the reason Durant shot 52% in the Finals.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 06:51 PM
No not really I am using the numbers to prove he didn't outplay him just like everyone always tries to use the myth that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the 1995 finals.

you used ppg, and fg%. Did Durant create offense like Bron did? Nope. Did Durant defend like LeBron did? Nope. Did Durant have the overall impact LeBron did? Nope.

LeBron was the best player on the floor in each series he played in. Fact. He led a team with a hobbled Bosh in round 2-3, and a Wade who dealt with knee injuries, to the finals, and he was the best player on the floor in the finals. Fact.

Btw, Hakeem did outplay Shaq in those finals. By a lot? Nope. But he was the best player on the floor.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:51 PM
apparently lebron was guarding durant and battier wasnt. LOL.

notice how all of durant's highlights in the finals were against battier, but no bro! Durant scored on lebron even tho lebron wasnt guarding him lol

typical.

now i know for a fact the dude is trolling lol noone is this delusional when kept being proven wrong by facts lol

I didn't say who was guarding who I said they played the same position, so he should be defending him. Not like he was going against someone at a totally different position than him.
And you should talk, you became a fan all of a sudden when the team was a championship contender.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 06:52 PM
How is that a tired old argument?

Let me ask you, what would you think of Kevin Garnett at his peak deciding to go play with someone like Duncan back in 2004?

You would think the same thing as Duncan was already a proven winner in his prime just like Wade is.

Not everyone is able to be drafted or traded into a great organization. If you give extra credit for winning on a team that has not before, that is your deal.

Loyalty is a hilarious term in sports to me. Its easy as **** to be loyal when your front office is supplying you with championship talent.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 06:53 PM
Lebron: 28.6 ppg/ 10 rebounds/7.4 assists/ 47.2 fg%/ 3.8 turnovers per game > Durant: 30.6 ppg/ 6 rebounds/ 2.2 assists/54.8 fg%/ 3.8 turnovers per game

LeBron OUTPERFORMED Durant in the 2012 NBA Finals, whether you agree with it or not.
End of Discussion.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 06:56 PM
Lebron: 28.6 ppg/ 10 rebounds/7.4 assists/ 47.2 fg%/ 3.8 turnovers per game > Durant: 30.6 ppg/ 6 rebounds/ 2.2 assists/54.8 fg%/ 3.8 turnovers per game

LeBron OUTPERFORMED Durant in the 2012 NBA Finals, whether you agree with it or not.
End of Discussion.

nooooo, you can't use those man. They don't help JB's case

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 06:56 PM
I didn't say who was guarding who I said they played the same position, so he should be defending him. Not like he was going against someone at a totally different position than him.
And you should talk, you became a fan all of a sudden when the team was a championship contender.
WHAT???? lol why was thabo guarding lebron than if "he should be defending him"? explain lol
my god this is funny.
is everyone's insult to Miami fans that "hey youre a bandwagon fan?" lol
man you really are reaching.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:56 PM
you used ppg, and fg%. Did Durant create offense like Bron did? Nope. Did Durant defend like LeBron did? Nope. Did Durant have the overall impact LeBron did? Nope.

LeBron was the best player on the floor in each series he played in. Fact. He led a team with a hobbled Bosh in round 2-3, and a Wade who dealt with knee injuries, to the finals, and he was the best player on the floor in the finals. Fact.

Btw, Hakeem did outplay Shaq in those finals. By a lot? Nope. But he was the best player on the floor.

Durant didn't have a proven winner who got the job done as the man on his team and a guy who performs better than he does on the highest stage. For instance,

Lebron = 23 pts / 8 reb / 7 ast on 44% shooting

Wade = 28 pts / 7 reb / 5 ast on 48% shooting

Not to mention Miami had 5 guys in double figures while the Thunder only had 3

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 06:57 PM
the simple fact that durant averaged more turnovers than assists should speak volumes.

HowFit
10-22-2012, 06:57 PM
Not referring to finals. I call down 3-2 in a series barely winning.

:facepalm:

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 06:58 PM
lol cmon JB youre better than that

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 06:58 PM
WHAT???? lol why was thabo guarding lebron than if "he should be defending him"? explain lol
my god this is funny.
is everyone's insult to Miami fans that "hey youre a bandwagon fan?" lol
man you really are reaching.

What do you mean?

Yes I know people become fans at different times and you gotta start sometime, however you have many here who are all of a sudden are Heat fans when the team is a championship favorite and who never were here prior to that. Most times people become fans when a team has a star player which is fine, but what about the Heat? They have always had Wade, so why all of a sudden you have all of these posters who say they are Heat fans when the team has a great team but before even with a top 3 player in the league you never saw or heard from many of them?

There was a guy here who was here in 2005 when the Heat were good and posted in 2005 and 2006 and then you hadn't heard anything from him since 2006 until the summer of 2010.

A real fan is a fan of the team when good or bad, not when they just got a good team.

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 06:59 PM
JB for the good of PSD maybe just stop on all LeBron related topics?

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 07:00 PM
:facepalm:

Not sure what the face palm is for. Being down 3-2 in a series is barely winning when you gotta come back in the series from being an elimination game away from losing it.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 07:00 PM
Not sure what the face palm is for. Being down 3-2 in a series is barely winning when you gotta come back in the series from being an elimination game away from losing it.

..... that logic lol

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 07:02 PM
Durant didn't have a proven winner who got the job done as the man on his team and a guy who performs better than he does on the highest stage. For instance,

Lebron = 23 pts / 8 reb / 7 ast on 44% shooting

Wade = 28 pts / 7 reb / 5 ast on 48% shooting

Not to mention Miami had 5 guys in double figures while the Thunder only had 3

None of this matters. None of it. Your schtick is getting old dude.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 07:03 PM
JB, you are also the one that was attempting to discredit LeBron for playing with a 200 year old Shaq, because, "he is proven".

Get out of here with your ridiculous arguments.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 07:04 PM
None of this matters. None of it. Your schtick is getting old dude.

How does it not matter?

If Rose had a peak Duncan, Dirk proven winners as the man that wouldn't matter?

justinnum1
10-22-2012, 07:04 PM
They aren't scared to play him. Not like he outplays the stars or averages more than them or anything. Not to mention just barely won last season with the most allstars in the league on the team.

Poor effort. 3/10

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 07:05 PM
JB, you are also the one that was attempting to discredit LeBron for playing with a 200 year old Shaq, because, "he is proven".

Get out of here with your ridiculous arguments.

How so? Shaq won the allstar game MVP the season before and more recently than Lebron. Not to mention outplayed him in the pivotal game of the series.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005110CLE.html

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 07:06 PM
How does it not matter?

If Rose had a peak Duncan, Dirk proven winners as the man that wouldn't matter?

It matters for that ****ing year

Good lord you are beyond reason.

Having a proven winner on your squad doesn't equate to anything if they aren't playing at the level they were when they won.

Wade was half the player that he was in 06 when he led the Heat to the chip. How you still slight LeBron for that beats me.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 07:07 PM
What do you mean?

Yes I know people become fans at different times and you gotta start sometime, however you have many here who are all of a sudden are Heat fans when the team is a championship favorite and who never were here prior to that. Most times people become fans when a team has a star player which is fine, but what about the Heat? They have always had Wade, so why all of a sudden you have all of these posters who say they are Heat fans when the team has a great team but before even with a top 3 player in the league you never saw or heard from many of them?

There was a guy here who was here in 2005 when the Heat were good and posted in 2005 and 2006 and then you hadn't heard anything from him since 2006 until the summer of 2010.

A real fan is a fan of the team when good or bad, not when they just got a good team.

lol....

in 2005/2006/2007/2008/2009/2010 espn forums were good to chat in.
it was until lebron joined us that it became unbearable with the amount of traffic and hate the heat got. so i searched for other places to have normal basketball discussions and found PSD.

i know it may be hard for you to believe but joining a not well known website such as PSD doesnt mean i became a fan at that time.

and the fact that you pulled the bandwagon card when i was simply pointing out at how flawed and biased some of your points are is just odd.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 07:08 PM
How so? Shaq won the allstar game MVP the season before and more recently than Lebron. Not to mention outplayed him in the pivotal game of the series.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005110CLE.html

LeBron played with garbage. You can't disprove this, no matter who many attempts you make.

We have been through this. I feel no need to re-hash something I find ridiculous, and borderline insulting to my intelligence. If you think a broken down Shaq and Big Z (he was an all star years prior as you tried to use) were crap help, that's on you.

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 07:08 PM
How so? Shaq won the allstar game MVP the season before and more recently than Lebron. Not to mention outplayed him in the pivotal game of the series.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005110CLE.html

Is this trolling? You're basing that outlandish theory on one postseason game when the cavs as a whole got smashed. . .

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 07:10 PM
It matters for that ****ing year

Good lord you are beyond reason.

Having a proven winner on your squad doesn't equate to anything if they aren't playing at the level they were when they won.

Wade was half the player that he was in 06 when he led the Heat to the chip. How you still slight LeBron for that beats me.

But still 3rd in the league in PER for the season in 2012. And he also had a 40+ game in the playoffs as well.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 07:11 PM
Is this trolling? You're basing that outlandish theory on one postseason game when the cavs as a whole got smashed. . .

The pivotal game of the series with the series tied 2-2 and the Cavs have HCA at home at that. I don't think so.

P Harvy
10-22-2012, 07:12 PM
Who cares if people are intimidated by him or not? He's coming off a double MVP season, does fear even matter? Everyone knows he's a force.

It doesn't matter. But I've seen people say no one has ever been intimated to play LeBron with that mentality that he could really kill you. And he did it to Indiana and did it to Boston with those dominant performances.. So basically I was just looking for some feelers

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 07:13 PM
LeBron played with garbage. You can't disprove this, no matter who many attempts you make.

We have been through this. I feel no need to re-hash something I find ridiculous, and borderline insulting to my intelligence. If you think a broken down Shaq and Big Z (he was an all star years prior as you tried to use) were crap help, that's on you.

I know we have been thru this and the facts are obvious.

Eastern Conference for 2009-2010


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastStandings

#1 Cavs 61-21
#2 Boston 57-25
#3 Orlando 56-26



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastChamps

Cavs - 32 Votes
Celtics - 13 votes
Orlando - 8 votes


NBA Champion for 2009-2010

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-NBAChamps

Lakers - 19 votes
Cavs - 18 votes
Spurs - 8 votes
Celtics - 5 votes
Orlando - 3 votes


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/preview2009/news/story?page=Predictions0910-Cavaliers



Last year's collapse in the Eastern Conference finals only made LeBron hungrier and more willing to expand his game. Now, opponents can expect to see him in the post more. Scary. And look for a resurgence from a truly motivated Shaq.




The Cavs were the best team in the East before collapsing against the Magic, and they've gotten even stronger in the offseason. Shaq and Anthony Parker should help shore up their bench. Still, they lack the athletic bigs to match up with the Magic in a seven-game series.




http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/CavsvsCeltics2010Playoffs.jpg

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/matchup/_/teams/celtics-cavaliers

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/playoffs/clebos

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/playoffs/secondround;_ylt=AnmpDvBsuAcJTM92uhMGAuWmxMEF

Not to mention the Cavs had the better record and higher Point differential and higher SRS rating and favorite by every analyst.

heyman321
10-22-2012, 07:15 PM
And you think those records were because of Ben Wallace and Varejao?

Ebbs
10-22-2012, 07:16 PM
Also everyone remembers the East absolutely blew in that era right?

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 07:18 PM
Also everyone remembers the East absolutely blew in that era right?

But then how can excuses be made for losing to those lesser teams in the East? That's my point. It is one thing if they lost to the 2009 Celtics with KG back who were the defending champions or lost to the Lakers in 2009 or 2010. But they lost to teams clearly inferior.

Bravo95
10-22-2012, 07:21 PM
Hakeem didn't outplay Shaq in the '95 Finals?

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/readers/nbafinals/performance.html

Readers: NBA Finals performances

...

9. Hakeem Olajuwon, 1995 (10 letters)

Hakeem Olajuwon dominated Shaquille O'Neal and the Orlando Magic in the Rockets' four-game sweep in 1995.

The whipping seems to have stuck with O'Neal, who had this to say in response to complaints made by the Portland Trailblazers about officiating in last year's playoffs:

"If I can't beat you, I'll be a man and say I can't beat you. I'm not going to [cry about it] ... I'm the first guy to say that somebody is better than me. I was the first guy to say Hakeem Olajuwon beat me in the [1995] NBA finals. He killed me. He dominated me. I didn't go, 'Oh, he's traveling. They had experience. Wah-wah-wah.' I'm a man. Hakeem Olajuwon dusted my butt."
Also..

https://twitter.com/si_vault/statuses/20235765342

SI Vault Photo (1995): Check out this trash-talking note Shaq left Hakeem after Houston swept Orlando in the Finals:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.element/img/4.0/global/swapper/201008/100803.19.jpg

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 07:25 PM
Lol jb just stop. You're looking foolish right now.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 07:27 PM
Hakeem didn't outplay Shaq in the '95 Finals?

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/readers/nbafinals/performance.html

Also..

https://twitter.com/si_vault/statuses/20235765342

He is going to say that because Orlando was the favorite for the series with HCA and got swept. What more should he say?

Shaq 28/13/6/0/3 on 60% FG
Hakeem 33/12/6/2/2 on 48% FG

C-Style
10-22-2012, 07:39 PM
Scared...people want to see him get owned

Not sure if that has to do with the era.

justinnum1
10-22-2012, 07:43 PM
JB is trolling and you all take the bait every time. He will just keep repeating his nonsense and copy and pasting from his archives of nonsense.

TyrionLannister
10-22-2012, 08:08 PM
I wouldn't call it fear, but there will definitely be more respect given.

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 08:10 PM
JB is trolling and you all take the bait every time. He will just keep repeating his nonsense and copy and pasting from his archives of nonsense.

Except I am listing the facts and the predictions each time and mentioning what the players had already done as the man on teams. Not to mention no one has ever proven it wrong. When someone shows me that Orlando and Boston had the greater SRS rating, Record and was favorite by every analyst then I will budge.

theheatles
10-22-2012, 08:11 PM
No1 is afraid of any1 these days, it just goes to show you the kinds of ******* in jordans era, such a soft era

eibbor
10-22-2012, 08:16 PM
No1 is afraid of any1 these days, it just goes to show you the kinds of ******* in jordans era, such a soft era

Either you are 12 or that was sarcasm...

SteBO
10-22-2012, 08:26 PM
I know we have been thru this and the facts are obvious.

Eastern Conference for 2009-2010


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastStandings

#1 Cavs 61-21
#2 Boston 57-25
#3 Orlando 56-26



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastChamps

Cavs - 32 Votes
Celtics - 13 votes
Orlando - 8 votes


NBA Champion for 2009-2010

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-NBAChamps

Lakers - 19 votes
Cavs - 18 votes
Spurs - 8 votes
Celtics - 5 votes
Orlando - 3 votes


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/preview2009/news/story?page=Predictions0910-Cavaliers







http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/CavsvsCeltics2010Playoffs.jpg

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/matchup/_/teams/celtics-cavaliers

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/playoffs/clebos

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/playoffs/secondround;_ylt=AnmpDvBsuAcJTM92uhMGAuWmxMEF

Not to mention the Cavs had the better record and higher Point differential and higher SRS rating and favorite by every analyst.
Because LBJ was/is THAT good, but his team wasn't. The "team" as a whole was as overrated as it got in the NBA. If there's anything to take away from what transpired in 2009 and 2010, it's that the "regular season" means little to nothing outside of playoff seedings, staying healthy, and building team chemistry.

I wasn't here back then, but before both of those series started I took ORL in '09 and BOS the following year, because LeBron played with garbage while he was forced to go up against those superior/deeper teams.

Sorry JB, but you're flat out wrong on so many levels regarding those Cavs' teams and you need to learn that it's okay to own up to it.

theheatles
10-22-2012, 08:37 PM
Either you are 12 or that was sarcasm...

no, no sarcasm...it was a soft era, and what I mean specifically was that era of pro athletes were less physically and cardiovascularly endured and which equate to softer players. Don't let nostalgia fool you

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-22-2012, 08:38 PM
JB > All

3ballbomber
10-22-2012, 08:47 PM
lol why wold people be afraid of Lebron. For years he shown the world he lacked mental toughness & balls. And once he finally gotten over the hump it was after running to his friends and getting help from the refs. Who the hell would be scared of that! if anything it would do the complete opposite & make people want to beat him rather than be scared to be against him.

bucketss
10-22-2012, 08:57 PM
They aren't scared to play him. Not like he outplays the stars or averages more than them or anything. Not to mention just barely won last season with the most allstars in the league on the team.

im not saying i disagree at all but i want to ask why are you always on one side of the argument in terms of lebron. Seems like you're always trying to discredit in any way possible

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 09:00 PM
im not saying i disagree at all but i want to ask why are you always on one side of the argument in terms of lebron. Seems like you're always trying to discredit in any way possible

mainly because everyone always makes excuses for him but never make the excuses for anyone else. Hell even in 2011 they make excuses for him.

bucketss
10-22-2012, 09:01 PM
Well he didn't outplay Durant. Durant averaged 30.6 ppg on 55% FG while Lebron averaged 28.6 ppg on 48% FG and they played the same position as well.

see this is what i mean you even contradict yourself. in a thread a few months ago you said durant can't lose with homecourt and be considered best player in the league. i know you think lebron is being overrated with all these comparisons to all time greats and you're trying to keep balance but you're going way overboard.

bucketss
10-22-2012, 09:05 PM
lol why wold people be afraid of Lebron. For years he shown the world he lacked mental toughness & balls. And once he finally gotten over the hump it was after running to his friends and getting help from the refs. Who the hell would be scared of that! if anything it would do the complete opposite & make people want to beat him rather than be scared to be against him.

in all honestly this post reeks of fear LOL. lebron haters are going to be in store for a lot of frustrating seasons.

ldawg
10-22-2012, 09:11 PM
Lebron is a talent but why be afraid of him? The Heat is more lucky the flopping rule was not already in place.

Mr_Jones
10-22-2012, 09:26 PM
No one's scared to play Lebron because he doesn't have the same attitude as MJ. Lebron's not going to drop 50 on you because you were talking trash. He's not going to shoot free throws with his eyes closed, or force you to shoot 3-20 and talk about your girlfriend the entire time. He may be the best player of his generation and eventually one of the greatest of all time, but he's not MJ.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, when did that happen? Haha

I would like to read about this :)

TheIlladelph16
10-22-2012, 09:40 PM
I don't believe any of the stars are afraid to face him. Though there are probably players in the NBA though that absolutely dread having to go up against him which is justifiable.

What's really important though: JB and Hawk going back and forth > Presidential Debate

Meaze_Gibson
10-22-2012, 10:31 PM
I think they will be to an extent. Say what you want but his performance against Boston game 6 was eye opening. He wasn't flopping or doing anything else other than giving Boston buckets everywhere. Rondo looked scared, Kg didn't want to meet him at the rim, Pierce was so shook that they had to send Bass to guard him. If he can intimidate that celtics squad anything can happen

jerellh528
10-22-2012, 10:33 PM
haha what?! no! no player should be intimidated to play against any other player.

3ballbomber
10-22-2012, 10:58 PM
in all honestly this post reeks of fear LOL. lebron haters are going to be in store for a lot of frustrating seasons.
yes like that 'reeking of fear' vs ORlando, that same 'reeking of fear' vs Boston and then that same 'reeking of fear' vs the Mavs. Old, injured Boston took them to 7 last season and then winning vs an inexperienced Thunder squad in the finals w/ the benefit of refs whistles not only throughout the finals but the entire Playoffs. Fear is is the feeling of being afraid, i would say courage and bravery best describes the opposite feeling facing somebody like Lebron.

Big Zo
10-22-2012, 11:03 PM
yes like that 'reeking of fear' vs ORlando, that same 'reeking of fear' vs Boston and then that same 'reeking of fear' vs the Mavs. Old, injured Boston took them to 7 last season and then winning vs an inexperienced Thunder squad in the finals w/ the benefit of refs whistles not only throughout the finals but the entire Playoffs. Fear is is the feeling of being afraid, i would say courage and bravery best describes the opposite feeling facing somebody like Lebron.

How's Gimpy doing in his rehab? :D :p

JordansBulls
10-22-2012, 11:16 PM
see this is what i mean you even contradict yourself. in a thread a few months ago you said durant can't lose with homecourt and be considered best player in the league. i know you think lebron is being overrated with all these comparisons to all time greats and you're trying to keep balance but you're going way overboard.

I didn't say Durant was the best in the league. I just said he wasn't outplayed. Also I have always said a guy who wins league and finals mvp the same season is the best in the league even Willis Reed in 1970.

b@llhog24
10-22-2012, 11:50 PM
lol cmon JB youre better than that

I thought so at one time, but you're wrong.

Kashmir13579
10-23-2012, 12:09 AM
I don't think people are scared to play against anyone in the NBA.

SwatTeam
10-23-2012, 12:15 AM
How's Gimpy doing in his rehab? :D :p

Damn son, too far. You can't make fun of someone that has 1 less ACL than the rest of us.

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-23-2012, 12:15 AM
I was thinking, maybe LeBron's receding hairline might scare his opponents away.

SugeKnight
10-23-2012, 12:33 AM
Lol JB got ya'll mad

P Harvy
10-23-2012, 03:16 AM
I was thinking, maybe LeBron's receding hairline might scare his opponents away.

Funniest thing I have heard in such a long long time man!!

bucketss
10-23-2012, 08:45 AM
yes like that 'reeking of fear' vs ORlando, that same 'reeking of fear' vs Boston and then that same 'reeking of fear' vs the Mavs. Old, injured Boston took them to 7 last season and then winning vs an inexperienced Thunder squad in the finals w/ the benefit of refs whistles not only throughout the finals but the entire Playoffs. Fear is is the feeling of being afraid, i would say courage and bravery best describes the opposite feeling facing somebody like Lebron.

i don't know why you mentioning the past. pathetic haters like you are not going to enjoy this league the next following years lol i mean you did basically say lebron made you hate basketball last time. Hopefully he makes people like you stop watching.

Chronz
10-23-2012, 08:56 AM
How does it not matter?

If Rose had a peak Duncan, Dirk proven winners as the man that wouldn't matter?

If the Bulls were to sign Ben Wallace today, it would not change their destiny one iota.

Chronz
10-23-2012, 09:40 AM
I thought so at one time, but you're wrong.

I get tired of folks trying to say the 2011 Mavs only had Dirk as an allstar when Kidd and Marion were stars as well but then the Bulls with MJ for instance in 1998 was the only allstar but yet Pippen and Rodman always get mentioned as being allstars when they weren't. And in 1991 MJ was the only allstar on the Bulls as well.

People, realize what your dealing with. When a man can hide behind "Facts" that have absolutely no value, while also contradicting when and where to use statistics, you have to learn that you will never get him to budge. The important thing to do is to spread the word, when it comes to JB and Bron/Tmac, he isn't the JB we know and love.

Chavacano
10-23-2012, 10:43 AM
Are people going to finally be scared of LeBron James?

...and start calling him you-know-who?

Lakerfan In NY
10-23-2012, 11:14 AM
It depends on if he chooses to go to the block on a more consistent basis.

dh144498
10-23-2012, 11:16 AM
no one's scared of Lebron, he's not an assassin like MJ was.

D12 fan
10-23-2012, 11:21 AM
I've heard a lot of talk that people have never really been intimated to play LeBron James.. At least not at a level like where people were intimated to play against Jordan.

Are people going to finally be scared of LeBron James? Or is that type of era over? Is todays NBA game just a game where people aren't intimated of other players?

In my opinion I think LeBron is going to come out and play like we've never seen him play before and it'll be interesting to see if opposing teams are really scared to go against this guy.

Wow!:facepalm:

If I made this thread it would have been deleted on the spot.

RateSports
10-23-2012, 01:01 PM
Well I think we all know who JB is now.....




http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/297/532/blog_bayless_display_image.jpg?1339030050

dh144498
10-23-2012, 01:12 PM
mainly because everyone always makes excuses for him but never make the excuses for anyone else. Hell even in 2011 they make excuses for him.

this. JB you are a gawd. :worthy:

People always find excuses for Lebron. The fact is he didn't deliver prior to 2012 (outside of 2009 ECF).
When Lebron loses: it's his teammates.
When Lebron wins: Lebron still has bad teammates. i.e. 2012. "Lebron did it all by himself" etc...

jkiddvc20
10-23-2012, 01:12 PM
Eh

SteBO
10-23-2012, 02:00 PM
mainly because everyone always makes excuses for him but never make the excuses for anyone else. Hell even in 2011 they make excuses for him.

this. JB you are a gawd. :worthy:

People always find excuses for Lebron. The fact is he didn't deliver prior to 2012 (outside of 2009 ECF).
When Lebron loses: it's his teammates.
When Lebron wins: Lebron still has bad teammates. i.e. 2012. "Lebron did it all by himself" etc...
There's a difference between excuses and reality.

dh144498
10-23-2012, 02:07 PM
There's a difference between excuses and reality.

of course, but it doesn't apply in this situation. Unless your perception of reality is really messed up.

xxplayerxx23
10-23-2012, 02:09 PM
He is the best player in the game, but some people like that and get up to play vs that. I wouldn't be really hyped and ready to play Lebron, compettive people want to beat the best to become the best.

SteBO
10-23-2012, 02:30 PM
There's a difference between excuses and reality.

of course, but it doesn't apply in this situation. Unless your perception of reality is really messed up.
I cannot defend him for what transpired in 2011, but while Miami's shooters finally did what they were suppose to do, a lot of it needs to be attributed to LeBron for the success in 2012, especially when you have bosh out during the playoffs, and a broken Dwyane Wade. It all happened mainly because of him....

And sorry, there is nothing anyone can say that's going to take away from the fact that LeBron's mates in Cleveland weren't good. JB is playing it off as excuses to nitpick and discredit any level of success LBJ had those years.

In 2009, he's essentially saying LeBron was the reason for Cleveland's failures after averaging 38, 8, and 8 on insane efficiency with one of the highest PER's we've ever seen in a playoff series. That, of course, is asinine....

naps
10-23-2012, 02:38 PM
lol cmon JB youre better than that

No he's not. He is a troll when it comes to LeBron; And sadly, most people here feed him trolling. His opinions are as ridiculous as they ever come yet people quote him and provide him with fuel.

PacersForLife
10-23-2012, 03:09 PM
I don't think people are scared of him as a person, but as a player maybe... Everyone is aware that LeBron is the best player in the league, but if you get in LeBron's face he usually just laughs it off. In order for people to be scared of him he would have to use that body of his and intimidate someone back every once in awhile, or stand up for himself. If somebody tries to start something with him he shouldn't back down or look away or whatever he does. He should respond, whether it be going on a scoring spree or pushing that person back.

JordansBulls
10-23-2012, 03:23 PM
It is always an excuse for Lebron. He had the best record both years. Don't give me he doesn't have a number 2. Dirk is a guy who doesn't have a number 2, but how often does he get excuses made for him?

The fact of the matter is Lebron pretty much got Jamison for free as Big Z came back to the team and then he added Shaq (1x league mvp and 3 finals mvp's) without giving up anything really.
Jamison a career 20 and 8 player and was getting that this season on the Wizards. Shaq last year a 17 and 7 player and Mo was a 17 and 6 player before playing with Lebron.

No excuses, the Cavs were heavily favorite both years.

Maybe Lebron should stop being ball dominant and trying to get his points and numbers early on in the game against bad teams and get others going.

I said from the beginning, that Lebron needed to play like he did in game 1 of the Bulls vs Cavs series for the Cavs to succeed. Once he started dominating the ball, the Cavs were done.

Lebron lost with HCA. MJ never lost with HCA.

IMO there are only a few times where the STAR PLAYER get the critism.

1.) Losing a Series with HCA.
2.) Playing bad and someone else on your team plays better
3.) Losing in the finals.


Every other superstar player that was on a good team ended up losing with HCA as well and to teams much inferior at that. That's the whole point of it. If you have HCA you should win the series.


http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=26749



Josh (Los Angeles, CA): The Cavs didn?t match up well with Orlando, now all of a sudden Big Z (PER 18.03), Mo (17.25) and Delonte (14.16) aren't a good supporting cast and Rashard (16.83), Hedo (14.82), and Pietrus (11.69) are studs?


http://a.espncdn.com/i/sn2.gif Chad Ford: It's the style of play. The way the Magic spread the floor was a challenge for guys like Ben Wallace and Z to guard. When Varejao got in foul trouble, they struggled to keep up.



Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastChamps)



Cleveland Cavaliers (32 votes)

This thing is Cleveland's to lose, says our panel -- or 60.4 percent of our panel, anyway.

It's no surprise to see so many votes for a team that has the reigning MVP and won 66 games last season. On the other hand, the Cavs had the same points in their favor in May, and were the heavy favorites to win the East at that time, too. But Orlando took care of Cleveland thanks to some amazing shooting and the dominance of Dwight Howard, and the Cavs were left licking their wounds.



For those saying the Cavs aren't suppose to win, then answer this?

Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090512)

[quote]
1. Cleveland (+9.12)
Welcome to the Cleveland Invitational, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, the Pistons had given up and the Hawks had injuries, but the fact is the Cavs have won eight straight playoff games by double figures. In this case it's a continuation of the Cavs' strong finish to the season, and it doesn't appear either Boston or Orlando has the goods to make them sweat much in a conference finals.

Cleveland also has home-court advantage going for it in the final two rounds, so at this point the Cavs have to be considered a heavy favorite to win the championship. They're playing the best basketball, have the best draw, have home-court and have the best player. They still have to play the games, of course, but the skids have already been greased. While the likes of Denver or L.A. could give them a tough fight in the Finals, at this point it appears that the only team that can beat Cleveland is Cleveland.


Looks like the Cavs were heavy favorites.


So they played a team that gave up in the Pistons and one who was injured in Atlanta and now it is being said that neither Boston or Orlando will make them sweat. So who the hell is supposed to win it all if it isn't Cleveland?


Dirk gets critisizm for losing with a team that won over 65+ games and didn't win the title does he not?


http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/th_CavsvsMagicSeries.jpg

http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/th_CavsvsMagic2009Playoffs.jpg
http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/CavsvsMagic2009Playoffs.jpg

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/matchup/_/teams/magic-cavaliers



Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-teams-of-the-decade-never-to-win-a-c;_ylt=Ai8j0I4kfnCFSrGgLh3xx7q8vLYF?urn=nba,184569 )



1. Cleveland Cavaliers, 2008-09

I sort of like this also-ran, because it speaks to how we've grown as a sport-regarding culture over the years. These Cleveland Cavaliers ran up 66-wins, an almost-Bulls-like 8.9-point differential (way better than any team listed above), and had the greatest player in the game (LeBron James(notes)) at their disposal. And yet, when the team lost to the Orlando Magic in the Eastern Conference finals last spring, people seemed ready to smartly admit that the Cavs, for all their horses, just didn't have the horses to run with the Magic.

Nobody was labeled a choker, nobody was fired, and though the team traded for one big (hopeful) problem-solver in the offseason in Shaquille O'Neal, nobody seemed to overreact and make deals for the sake of making deals. Knowing that the team will have the best player in the game, at only age 24, around for at least the next season helps too; but you have to love the lack of hand-wringing. Still, the meek ending doesn't hide the fact that this was an otherwise dominant team that won 74 of its first 90 games before falling to the Magic in six.



While Lebron had another allstar on the team. This with Orlando missing it's star PG as well.



Lebron just lost with HCA and the superior supporting cast. He averaged 15.67 FTA a game in that series where he shot 94 FT in 6 games.

Bulls not only in 1991 but 1998 was the finest example won the title and this with Pippen missing over half the season on a bad foot and Bulls win 62 games. Pippen also has a bad back as well in the finals.


You say the Cavs didn't show up, well guess what, Lebron gets all the credit last year for taking the Celtics 7 games when he shot 35% from the field.

This year the Cavs underachieved in losing to Orlando who wasn't getting any publicity and who many thought would go down in round 1.



So Lebron had another allstar on the team, another 3 former allstars, a 4x DPOY player, a team top 4 in defensive and offensive efficiency, the team with the highest SRS rating all year long as well as the team who had the highest point differential all year long and then won it's first two series by more than 10+ points per game, but yet they weren't the favorite to beat Orlando who was missing it's star PG and whose SG was playing injured?

Hilarious!!!


Not even One analyst said the Magic would win.

In fact it was so bad that in games 3 and 4 in Orlando that the Cavs were a 2 point favorite on the road.

The Cavs had the best record all year, they had the highest point differential in winning, they had the highest SRS rating.

In the playoffs they won the first 2 rounds by 10+ points in every game and even in the playoffs the Cavs had a 8.5 pts per game differential which was the highest in the postseason that year.

The Cavs were cruising while the Magic were getting outplayed and down in the series to the Sixers initially and the Celtics without KG and then you expect me to believe that Orlando was the better team all along? I just don't buy that all and really it is just an excuse because the Cavs lost. Also lets not forget the Cavs were up each game at home of the 3 games by more than 20+ points each time.


So when I said it was on Lebron I meant in the sense that not that he played bad but that he was the leader of the team and Your leader shouldn't allow you to blow 20+ point leads in the playoffs at home especially when you go 39-2 at home all year. That is more or less why I said it was on Lebron.


Let's make something clear here, I never said Lebron played bad statistically in the series,

however him defending the worst offensive player on the court on Orlando made for a bad strategy.

Because who was Lebron guarding the series? Was he not guarding Rafer Alston? Why is he guarding someone that doesn't play his position when the guy who plays his position is an offensive threat? Because of that that allowed Hedo to shoot over his man. Lebron has to take fault for that.

He could have easily taken Hedo out of the game especially when the Cavs were up 20+ points in each of it's 3 home games.



Lebron had plenty of help on his team this year. He had another allstar in Mo Williams. He had a top 4 defensive rating and offensive rated team. The team had the highest SRS rating which means the strength by which you beat your opponents by. They had the highest point differential in the season and in the playoffs.

That team was the best team in the league that got upset by an inferior opponent.

So tell me who was the favorite to win the series between Orlando and Cleveland?



Let's not forget that Lebron plays well against Bad teams. He had over a 44.5 PER thru the first two rounds mainly because the other teams starters were just terrible. Case in point, Tayshaun Prince had a negative win shares amount and had a negative PER. PER is set at 15 for the average starter and for someone who starts to get a negative PER goes to show how bad they were. Thus Lebron was able to do what he does best and that is stat pad his numbers. That is why it hurt them later on.

And he certainly padded his stats against Detroit and Atlanta.


Good stats don't mean jack when you lose series with HCA and you are the heavy favorite to win the series. Just like MJ would have gotten the blame in 1988 had we lost to Cleveland because we had the HCA and the game went to the deciding game and this despite him averaging over vs. Cleveland, 1988: 45 pts/5 reb/5 ast/53% FG
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll give you an example. The Bulls were 0-6 against the Cavs in 1989. Cavs were title contenders and we were barely making the playoffs. MJ proceeds to average over 40 ppg in that series and we win the series in 5 on the road on a game winner by MJ. Even the year before where we had HCA, MJ averaged over 45 ppg in that series and we went the distance and won game 5 at home.

Now you look at MJ's history and you see that whenever he had a team that won more games than the other or even that won the same number of games, he ALWAYS won the series. Essentially speaking MJ never lost a series with HCA.

Oh and you say Mo didn't show up, he still averaged 18 ppg. Hell let's look at what other guys did on some titles the Bulls won. MJ's next best player averages 15 ppg on 34% fg in the finals in 1996 and we win. He averages 16 ppg on 41% in the 1998 finals.
How is that any worse than what Mo did?

Oh and the Cavs were up by 15+ in every home game, how the hell can you blame the cast for that? If you are getting 20+ point leads at home your damn cast gotta be good especially if you have had that lead in each home game in the series.
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The Cavs were not bad period.

1) They nearly beat the Sixers the last game of the season with the Sixers playing all of there best players the entire game and the Cavs were doing this with 3 starters out and 2 others playing less than 20 minutes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why things would have been different

1) Cavs had a 20 point lead in each of it's home games. There is no way in hell you get up by 20+ points in each home game in the conference finals without being a good team.

2) There is no reason why Lebron should have defended Rafer for most of the games at home. Rafer does not play well on the road period and most of the time doesn't play well. Another reason why this wasn't good it left Mo Williams and Delonte West to defend Lee and Hedo guys who were simply bigger than they were and thus they could shoot right over Mo Williams and Delonte West.

3) Lebron passed off on the last possession with the team down 1 point. When you are the star and your team is down and you are not up in the series, you take the shot.

4) Lebron held the ball too long on possessions. I know he did nearly everything, but it would have been quite different with a set offense then just passing the rock and expecting guys to hit shots with 4 seconds left on the shot clock when they hadn't touched the ball the entire possession.

5) Lebron simply needed to score 50+ in that game 1. He was hot, he needed to make sure the Cavs got that game.




http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290520005 - Mentions 15 at the half, but it was 20 at one point.

http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290522005 - Down by 23 in the second quarter the Magic were within 12 at halftime.


http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290528005 - The Magic overcame a 22-point deficit but missed their first opportunity to close out the Cavaliers


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
One other thing about Playoff Win Shares and PER. Dirk had a higher PER and Win Shares in 2006 in the postseason than Wade, but would you say he was better when Wade won without HCA and beat Dirk in the finals?

Only thing that really matters is the finals. Playoffs come 2nd.


Hell Jerry West averaged 37.9 ppg in the finals in 1969 and he and Wilt get the blame for losing to the Celtics because the were heavy favorites in that series.

http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1969.htm#


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's say Lebron had Iverson instead of Mo Williams, how do they do? Do they necessarily win with a guy that is a top 35 player all time instead?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem was that Cleveland didn't take Orlando seriously. It took Orlando 7 games to beat a KG less Boston team and Cleveland had won it's first 8 games by 10+ points each. Thus they overlooked Orlando and figured it was going to be easy especially with Jameer not playing as well.
Lebron very well may have had to average over 40 ppg in that series to win it, but he didn't. It is just like in 1969 Jerry West, Wilt and Baylor all get the blame for losing to the Celtics because they were the favorite and had the HCA despite West averaging nearly 39 ppg in that series.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Orlando made the finals with the worst backcourt of all time. How the hell do you make the finals with Rafer Alston and Courtney Lee (a rookie) as your starting backcourt?

People talk about Lebron's cast, but then fail to mention the cast Dwight had in 2009. Rafer and Lee was his starting backcourt. When they went to New Jersey that team won 12 games. Rashard Lewis was his PF and now on the Wizards with a franchise player in Wall that team has won like 13 games now. And then Hedo was on the Raptors and Suns and had absolutely no impact.
When you put it together Dwight's lineup was Rafer, Lee, Hedo, Lewis

Those guys didn't play well because they hardly ever had the ball. If you go back and watch the series vs Orlando you will hear Doug Collins mentioning how Lebron has the ball in his hands 16-18 seconds every possession. Your teammmates aren't going to perform well when that happens. And Dwight's cast was equally as bad.

Realistically who were the contenders in 2009?

Lakers obviously but outside of them, not reallly anyone else as Manu was out for San Antonio, tmac/Yao for the Rockets, KG for the Celtics and Nelson for the Magic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This year Cleveland was the favorite from the get go and even more so mid way thru the year. Cleveland won 66 games and Orlando won 59 games. Cleveland had the HCA and was the heavy favorites to win the east with Garnett out. Now had the Celtics been healthy that is one thing, but Orlando hadn't proved anything in any other postseason. So dont tell me they were supposed to win this series.

Also Orlando was doing this without their star pg in Nelson who was the 2nd best player on the team. Cleveland lost 2 games at home this year and really only 1 as the last game of the year none of the starters played. And think of it, they still took the 6th seed to OT with not one starter playing.

It's amazing Orlando won with that backcourt and won missing it's 2nd best player. I thought Orlando would lose in 4 or 5 with how good Cleveland was doing and how much Orlando struggled with Philly and a KG less Celtics. I thought Orlando only had a chance to take it 7 with a healthy Jameer.

I don't what hear about someone not having a good supporting cast when they had the best record in the league and broke a record in the playoffs winning it's first 8 games by 10+ points each game.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



Last year's collapse in the Eastern Conference finals only made LeBron hungrier and more willing to expand his game. Now, opponents can expect to see him in the post more. Scary. And look for a resurgence from a truly motivated Shaq.




The Cavs were the best team in the East before collapsing against the Magic, and they've gotten even stronger in the offseason. Shaq and Anthony Parker should help shore up their bench. Still, they lack the athletic bigs to match up with the Magic in a seven-game series.


---------------------------------------
Except we are comparing them to Orlando who they were supposed to beat.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=26749



Josh (Los Angeles, CA): The Cavs didn?t match up well with Orlando, now all of a sudden Big Z
(PER 18.03), Mo (17.25) and Delonte (14.16) aren't a good supporting cast and Rashard (16.83), Hedo (14.82), and Pietrus (11.69) are studs?


http://a.espncdn.com/i/sn2.gif Chad Ford: It's the style of play. The way the Magic spread the floor was a challenge for guys like Ben Wallace and Z to guard. When Varejao got in foul trouble, they struggled to keep up.


Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastChamps)



Cleveland Cavaliers (32 votes)

This thing is Cleveland's to lose, says our panel -- or 60.4 percent of our panel, anyway.
It's no surprise to see so many votes for a team that has the reigning MVP and won 66 games last
season. On the other hand, the Cavs had the same points in their favor in May, and were the heavy favorites to win the East at that time, too. But Orlando took care of Cleveland thanks to some amazing shooting and the dominance of Dwight Howard, and the Cavs were left licking their wounds.

Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090512)



1. Cleveland (+9.12)
Welcome to the Cleveland Invitational, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, the Pistons had given up and the Hawks had injuries, but the fact is the Cavs have won eight straight playoff games by double figures. In this case it's a continuation of the Cavs' strong finish to the season, and it doesn't appear either Boston or Orlando has the goods to make them sweat much in a conference finals.

Cleveland also has home-court advantage going for it in the final two rounds, so at this point the Cavs have to be considered a heavy favorite to win the championship. They're playing the best basketball, have the best draw, have home-court and have the best player.

They still have to play the games, of course, but the skids have already been greased. While the likes of Denver or L.A. could give them a tough fight in the Finals, at this point it appears that the only team that can beat Cleveland is Cleveland.



http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/th_CavsvsMagicSeries.jpg

http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/th_CavsvsMagic2009Playoffs.jpg
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/matchup/_/teams/magic-cavaliers



Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-teams-of-the-decade-never-to-win-a-c;_ylt=Ai8j0I4kfnCFSrGgLh3xx7q8vLYF?urn=nba,184569 )



1. Cleveland Cavaliers, 2008-09

I sort of like this also-ran, because it speaks to how we've grown as a sport-regarding culture over the years. These Cleveland Cavaliers ran up 66-wins, an almost-Bulls-like 8.9-point differential (way better than any team listed above), and had the greatest player in the game (LeBron James(notes)) at their disposal. And yet, when the team lost to the Orlando Magic in the Eastern Conference finals last spring, people seemed ready to smartly admit that the Cavs, for all their horses, just didn't have the horses to run with the Magic. Nobody was labeled a choker, nobody was fired, and though the team traded for one big (hopeful) problem-solver in the offseason in Shaquille O'Neal, nobody seemed to overreact and make deals for the sake of making deals. Knowing that the team will have the best player in the game, at only age 24, around for at least the next season helps too; but you have to love the lack of hand-wringing. Still, the meek ending doesn't hide the fact that this was an otherwise dominant team that won 74 of its first 90 games before falling to the Magic in six.


The Cavs had the best record all year, they had the highest point differential in winning, they had the highest SRS rating.

In the playoffs they won the first 2 rounds by 10+ points in every game and even in the playoffs the Cavs had a 8.5 pts per game differential which was the highest in the postseason that year.


Why things would have been different

1) Cavs had a 20 point lead in each of it's home games. There is no way in hell you get up by 20+ points in each home game in the conference finals without being a good team.

2) There is no reason why Lebron should have defended Rafer for most of the games at home. Rafer does not play well on the road period and most of the time doesn't play well. Another reason why this wasn't good it left Mo Williams and Delonte West to defend Lee and Hedo guys who were simply bigger than they were and thus they could shoot right over Mo Williams and Delonte West.

3) Lebron passed off on the last possession with the team down 1 point. When you are the star and your team is down and you are not up in the series, you take the shot.

4) Lebron held the ball too long on possessions. I know he did nearly everything, but it would have been quite different with a set offense then just passing the rock and expecting guys to hit shots with 4 seconds left on the shot clock when they hadn't touched the ball the entire possession.

5) Lebron simply needed to score 50+ in that game 1. He was hot, he needed to make sure the Cavs got that game.

http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290520005 - Mentions 15 at the half, but it was 20 at one point.

http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290522005 - Down by 23 in the second quarter the Magic were within 12 at halftime.


http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290528005 - The Magic overcame a 22-point deficit but missed their first opportunity to close out the Cavaliers


Hell Jerry West averaged 37.9 ppg in the finals in 1969 and he and Wilt get the blame for losing to the Celtics because the were heavy favorites in that series.


Now had the Cavs lost to the Celtics with KG around or the Lakers those would be legit losses but losing to a team that was out in the previous season in round 1 and when you had HCA and the hands down favorite while they were missing there PG in Nelson as well doesn't bode well here.
-------------------------------------------------

IKnowHoops
10-23-2012, 03:24 PM
No not really I am using the numbers to prove he didn't outplay him just like everyone always tries to use the myth that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the 1995 finals.

Do you count rebounds and assts as part of the statistical output? Because if so, Lebron definately outplayed Durant.

bucketss
10-23-2012, 04:12 PM
this. JB you are a gawd. :worthy:

People always find excuses for Lebron. The fact is he didn't deliver prior to 2012 (outside of 2009 ECF).
When Lebron loses: it's his teammates.
When Lebron wins: Lebron still has bad teammates. i.e. 2012. "Lebron did it all by himself" etc...

what about when you guys say " he only won because of the refs" "rose and dwight got injured he got lucky" aren't you guys making excuses to?

IKnowHoops
10-23-2012, 04:14 PM
Hey JB what do you say to this?

1. You talk about Cavs team PER, but why not mention how Lebron has had the best PER in the NBA the last 6 years. If you going to bring up PER to show how one team is better, than shouldnt you also acknowledge how the player with the best PER is the best. And when a team with a player who has the best PER in the league looses, and he has players with very low PER starting on that team, shouldn't you be smart enough to deduce that the player with the highest PER in the league and the series is the reason the team did well and the players with the low PER are the reason the team does poorly.

2. When Cavs lost to Magic and Lebron avg 38 11 8 and had a much higher per than jordan ever had, how can that loss be his fault and not mo williams who was shooting under 30%

3.Your using statistics to argue for yourself. You brought up all the stats for the Olajuawan vs Shaq comparison, but then when you compare Lebron and Durant you only bring points. Then when someone else suplies those stats showing how Lebron outplayed Durant you dont acknowledge it. You cant admit your wrong. Why?

4.If Lebron had so much help on Cleveland, can you tell me why they had the worst record in the after he left. And noweven with a sick pg with kyrie Irvin they are not even close to the playoffs. When Jordan was winning, the year he left the bulls still won 52 games and they advanced in the playoffs. That tells you that Jordan had way more help than Lebron. I doubt the Heat would win 52 games without Lebron right now.

bucketss
10-23-2012, 04:15 PM
jb, i don't get this whole excuse thing. is lebron not one of the most criticized players this decade?

Sactown
10-23-2012, 04:19 PM
If I were the opposing teams best offensive player I'd be afraid lol... I'd be afraid I shoot 25% and have 4 turnovers.. that's more embarrassing than what he's going to do to you on the offensive end.

Bravo95
10-23-2012, 04:44 PM
Those Cavs didn't have a great #2 but they had good depth and played elite defense. I thought SVG simply outcoached Brown in that '09 ORL-CLE series, and Doc's team was just on a mission in '10 and would not be denied until Artest hit that 3 in Game 7.

Bravo95
10-23-2012, 04:51 PM
4.If Lebron had so much help on Cleveland, can you tell me why they had the worst record in the after he left.
The Cavs' defense fell off after Brown (good defensive coach), LeBron (elite defensive wing), and others left. They went from being ranked 6th in Opponents PPG and 7th in Defensive Rating under Brown... to 23rd and 29th, respectively, under Scott. Tough to win in the East if you can't defend.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2011.html

John Walls Era
10-23-2012, 04:52 PM
JB trolling hard again on the first page.... normal for him in Lebron/Tmac threads.

JordansBulls
10-23-2012, 05:24 PM
Hey JB what do you say to this?

1. You talk about Cavs team PER, but why not mention how Lebron has had the best PER in the NBA the last 6 years. If you going to bring up PER to show how one team is better, than shouldnt you also acknowledge how the player with the best PER is the best. And when a team with a player who has the best PER in the league looses, and he has players with very low PER starting on that team, shouldn't you be smart enough to deduce that the player with the highest PER in the league and the series is the reason the team did well and the players with the low PER are the reason the team does poorly.

2. When Cavs lost to Magic and Lebron avg 38 11 8 and had a much higher per than jordan ever had, how can that loss be his fault and not mo williams who was shooting under 30%

3.Your using statistics to argue for yourself. You brought up all the stats for the Olajuawan vs Shaq comparison, but then when you compare Lebron and Durant you only bring points. Then when someone else suplies those stats showing how Lebron outplayed Durant you dont acknowledge it. You cant admit your wrong. Why?

4.If Lebron had so much help on Cleveland, can you tell me why they had the worst record in the after he left. And noweven with a sick pg with kyrie Irvin they are not even close to the playoffs. When Jordan was winning, the year he left the bulls still won 52 games and they advanced in the playoffs. That tells you that Jordan had way more help than Lebron. I doubt the Heat would win 52 games without Lebron right now.

Lebron never averaged 40 ppg in a series nor ever scored 50 points in a playoffs and still lost to the Magic who were missing it's star PG in Nelson. MJ has 6 playoff series of 40+ ppg or better for the entire series. Lebron has none. Lebron's numbers were more empty numbers vs Orlando because his team never got involved as he was ball dominating the entire time. It's like Amare's 37 ppg vs San Antonio in the WCF in 2005.
Lebron lost as the favorite with HCA. He is 1-3 with HCA vs 50+ win teams and MJ was 14-0 vs 50+ win teams with HCA. And Lebron's PER was not higher by any means especially when you get eliminated early in the playoffs to an inferior team.
Cavs lost Lebron, Shaq, Delonte, Big Z, Jamario Moon and their coach in Mike Brown as well as Varajeo for the year.

Bulls went from tied with the best record in the league to having the worst record once MJ left in 1998. It took 7 years for the Bulls to make the playoffs again once MJ left.

And you talk about the help Lebron had, but yet Lebron can't even win 60+ games with the Heat who have the most allstars in the league. So if the Cavs had a bad cast why can't Lebron win 60+ games on the Heat?

The Heat won 47 games before Lebron and Bosh came and then went up to 58 games. They essentially only won 11 more games adding two allstars to the squad.

L.Brown
10-23-2012, 05:31 PM
are u crazy people are super scarred 2 play against lbj..he will be the g.o.a.t.

JordansBulls
10-23-2012, 05:35 PM
are u crazy people are super scarred 2 play against lbj..he will be the g.o.a.t.

Not unless he can go back in time and erase the 3 series he lost with HCA and the 2 bronze medals he has and also take an organization that never won anything and turn them into a dynasty.

Gibby23
10-23-2012, 05:49 PM
Not unless he can go back in time and erase the 3 series he lost with HCA and the 2 bronze medals he has and also take an organization that never won anything and turn them into a dynasty.

Do you ever leave your house? If so, do you win?

heyman321
10-23-2012, 05:56 PM
The Cavs' defense fell off after Brown (good defensive coach), LeBron (elite defensive wing), and others left. They went from being ranked 6th in Opponents PPG and 7th in Defensive Rating under Brown... to 23rd and 29th, respectively, under Scott. Tough to win in the East if you can't defend.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2011.html

LMAO!! Dude you should be a comedian.

bucketss
10-23-2012, 06:15 PM
Not unless he can go back in time and erase the 3 series he lost with HCA and the 2 bronze medals he has and also take an organization that never won anything and turn them into a dynasty.

what if a player gets drafted by the lakers and than goes on to have an identical career to jordan that player will never be better because of circumstances that were out of his hands? btw this has nothing to do with lebron.

Bravo95
10-23-2012, 06:19 PM
LMAO!! Dude you should be a comedian.
What did I say that was worth a "LMAO!!"? The Cavs' defense went from "great" to "sucks", so they sucked. LeBron was obviously a big part of that, and the coaching changes played a part. Brown was/is weak on offensive strategy but they were Top 10 in fewest PPG allowed every season under him -- that didn't happen under Paul Silas, and they haven't cracked the Top 20 under Scott. My point was that weak defensive teams don't usually prosper in the East.

TheLegend
10-23-2012, 06:22 PM
Lebron never averaged 40 ppg in a series nor ever scored 50 points in a playoffs and still lost to the Magic who were missing it's star PG in Nelson. MJ has 6 playoff series of 40+ ppg or better for the entire series. Lebron has none. Lebron's numbers were more empty numbers vs Orlando because his team never got involved as he was ball dominating the entire time. It's like Amare's 37 ppg vs San Antonio in the WCF in 2005.
Lebron lost as the favorite with HCA. He is 1-3 with HCA vs 50+ win teams and MJ was 14-0 vs 50+ win teams with HCA. And Lebron's PER was not higher by any means especially when you get eliminated early in the playoffs to an inferior team.
Cavs lost Lebron, Shaq, Delonte, Big Z, Jamario Moon and their coach in Mike Brown as well as Varajeo for the year.

Bulls went from tied with the best record in the league to having the worst record once MJ left in 1998. It took 7 years for the Bulls to make the playoffs again once MJ left.

And you talk about the help Lebron had, but yet Lebron can't even win 60+ games with the Heat who have the most allstars in the league. So if the Cavs had a bad cast why can't Lebron win 60+ games on the Heat?

The Heat won 47 games before Lebron and Bosh came and then went up to 58 games. They essentially only won 11 more games adding two allstars to the squad.

The bold part is a pretty lame argument considering they went to the finals the 1st year and won the title this past season. They won the ship dude! Is not that the more important goal versus winning 60 regular season games? C'mon, I know u have better common sense than that dude.

KnickaBocka.44
10-23-2012, 06:25 PM
People don't get scared to play LeBron, they get scared to play the Heat as a team. But even with that being so, I think they lost a lot of their intimidation factor when they showed themselves to be a bunch of panzies flopping themselves all the way to a championship. Because of this, I think a lot of the teams in the NBA are relishing the chance to take a shot at them this year.

TheLegend
10-23-2012, 06:26 PM
Not unless he can go back in time and erase the 3 series he lost with HCA and the 2 bronze medals he has and also take an organization that never won anything and turn them into a dynasty.

Another lame statement. :facepalm: I mean, I'm not a Heat fan but damn man, u make some real weak arguments. They won the championship last year dude. Wake up. Jordan lost repeatedly to before he won, as does most superstars do.

TheLegend
10-23-2012, 06:36 PM
People don't get scared to play LeBron, they get scared to play the Heat as a team. But even with that being so, I think they lost a lot of their intimidation factor when they showed themselves to be a bunch of panzies flopping themselves all the way to a championship. Because of this, I think a lot of the teams in the NBA are relishing the chance to take a shot at them this year.

Incorrect on the bold part. Fact is the Heat has a rather ridiculous line-up when u add Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis. This is huge for them IMO. I don't think teams is going to be relishing to play them. Trust me, come playoff time teams will be trying to avoid them. And BTW, you don't flop to a championship. You earn a championship.

KnickaBocka.44
10-23-2012, 06:48 PM
Incorrect on the bold part. Fact is the Heat has a rather ridiculous line-up when u add Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis. This is huge for them IMO. I don't think teams is going to be relishing to play them. Trust me, come playoff time teams will be trying to avoid them. And BTW, you don't flop to a championship. You earn a championship.

You're missing the point. While they may have a dangerous team and a team worthy of respecting as far as talent goes, they lost a lot of respect from their peers with the way they acted in the playoffs.

Their flop jobs were so bad even David Stern called them out on it, and then eventually the rule changes came.

SteBO
10-23-2012, 07:12 PM
Stern didn't call out anyone on it, and regardless it doesn't matter. Why should Miami care who respects them or not? It's all about winning.

The levels in which people reach to diminish Miami's accomplishments has far exceeded embarrassing......

KnickaBocka.44
10-23-2012, 07:35 PM
Stern didn't call out anyone on it, and regardless it doesn't matter. Why should Miami care who respects them or not? It's all about winning.

The levels in which people reach to diminish Miami's accomplishments has far exceeded embarrassing......

http://losthatsportsblog.com/2012/05/david-stern-we-should-give-out-oscars-rather-than-mvp-trophies/


On the night Stern gave LeBron the MVP he said, "We should give out Oscars rather than MVP trophies." You don't think that had any reference to LeBron and the Heat?


I'm not saying Miami should care. What I'm saying has nothing to do with the way the Heat see things. I am saying that I think the rest of the teams in the league will be ready and willing to dish out some very hard fouls to LeCon and Co. this year.

SteBO
10-23-2012, 08:03 PM
Stern didn't call out anyone on it, and regardless it doesn't matter. Why should Miami care who respects them or not? It's all about winning.

The levels in which people reach to diminish Miami's accomplishments has far exceeded embarrassing......

http://losthatsportsblog.com/2012/05/david-stern-we-should-give-out-oscars-rather-than-mvp-trophies/


On the night Stern gave LeBron the MVP he said, "We should give out Oscars rather than MVP trophies." You don't think that had any reference to LeBron and the Heat?


I'm not saying Miami should care. What I'm saying has nothing to do with the way the Heat see things. I am saying that I think the rest of the teams in the league will be ready and willing to dish out some very hard fouls to LeCon and Co. this year.
I never saw that. Thanks for sharing. I can see where you're coming from now.

I mean, Miami dealt with that last year too so they'll be prepared. The opposing teams better hope it doesn't backfire though.