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View Full Version : Is it possible Nash declines this year?



NYSpirit1
10-22-2012, 09:08 AM
It's only the preseason but he looks a bit slow out there.

Before people overreact, keep in mind Nash is about the same age as Jason Kidd, who people regularly call a dinosaur. They've had equally Hall of Fame careers but most people forget Nash's age because he's gotten better with time.

But now he's in a half court system, no more run' n gun' and he's playing with another ball dominant guard.

The question: Will he decline physically and statistically this year?

He has to at some point.

carnage101
10-22-2012, 09:13 AM
i thought the same thing last night but its preseason chillax

JNoel
10-22-2012, 09:16 AM
He'll most likely have a better season than Kobe imo.

bucketss
10-22-2012, 09:28 AM
^lol

PraiseJesus
10-22-2012, 09:32 AM
of course it's possible

GunFactor187
10-22-2012, 09:33 AM
Nash wins another MVP.

idrinkpepsi
10-22-2012, 09:39 AM
Player who is on the brink of decline years in his career, and getting older might decline this year? YOU DON'T SAY

the life
10-22-2012, 09:42 AM
Nash was undisputed ball handler of the team all his career. It will be tough for him to run the offense playing along side Kobe. I agree that his numbers will decline this year but he still ca be useful with his quick passing abilities which Kobe (for obvious reasons) don't have.

The biggest advantage Steve has over most of the guards in NBA is the guts to run a play without involving Kobe. It remains now for him to convince the other Lakers starters that is OK to score even without Kobe touching the ball.

king4day
10-22-2012, 09:50 AM
I watched the beginning of last nights game and it appears he's going to be a forgotten talent in this system. He'll get his pick and rolls from time to time, but he's not the only one who can set those up.
It doesn't hurt LA having him but I'm curious if he can be his normal self. He wasn't able to when Shaq was a Sun. Even with Amar'e.

JasonJohnHorn
10-22-2012, 09:52 AM
Of course. He's fawking old! If he is anything like John Stockton and Mark Jackson, and Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett and Kareem, then he will likely play nearly as effectively as he has up until this point, but he will only be able to do it in limited minutes. Hearing some retired vets talk about playing in old age gives you an idea of what toll the game takes on players. Check out this session of Open Court:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA1Go5ugoyo

You see guys like Reggie Miller and Steve Smith, who were both in great shape when the retried, talk about the days after games and how they felt it more than ever before. I imagine Nash will be in a similar situation. Hopefully LAL's PG rotation will play well when he's resting, because I don't expect Nash to be posting 36 minutes a game this season.

PC
10-22-2012, 10:01 AM
Well it's possible because he's going to be 39 this season but if you're drawing your conclusions based off of preseason, I'd take a step or two back

bagwell368
10-22-2012, 10:08 AM
What do you mean this year? He's been in decline for awhile now.... since 2004-2006. He'll be 39 in February. Small guys don't usually make it that far, and when they do, they don't usually play that well and/or stay that healthy.

iDefend10
10-22-2012, 10:10 AM
His scoring will drop and his defense has always been suspect, but I think he is going to put up crazy assist numbers. There is no reason why he shouldn't lol.

king4day
10-22-2012, 10:10 AM
What do you mean this year? He's been in steep decline for awhile now....

His assist numbers haven't changed much over the years. If he had talent the last 2 years, his numbers are probably the same as they've been during his whole Suns tenure.
Decline? Maybe. Steep? Nope

ghettosean
10-22-2012, 10:28 AM
Player who is on the brink of decline years in his career, and getting older might decline this year? YOU DON'T SAY
That about sums up what I was going to say... LOL.

xxplayerxx23
10-22-2012, 10:30 AM
No he is a laker.

HowFit
10-22-2012, 10:30 AM
I do expect his mins to drop...

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 10:31 AM
Let's put it this way: as a heat fan, I'm more scared of Nash than Howard.

superkegger
10-22-2012, 10:32 AM
His production likely will drop. All of the Lakers starters numbers will likely drop a bit. They've essentially got 4 all stars, and if they're going to be a successful team, their individual numbers will drop a lil bit, just like wade and boshs did when those 3 went to Miami.

torocan
10-22-2012, 10:33 AM
COULD he decline further this year? Sure. He's 39.

WILL he decline further this year?

Nash has been defying expectations for so long that I wouldn't bet money on it...

Chronz
10-22-2012, 10:37 AM
His assist numbers haven't changed much over the years. If he had talent the last 2 years, his numbers are probably the same as they've been during his whole Suns tenure.
Decline? Maybe. Steep? Nope

You underrate his decline and how deep you can dig into stats. Its been a significant decline if your talking about going from an MVP caliber player to simply Top-6 at your position.

ManningToTyree
10-22-2012, 10:39 AM
His production will go down because of his teammates, not his talent. He will still average an efficient double double.

xxplayerxx23
10-22-2012, 10:44 AM
Let's put it this way: as a heat fan, I'm more scared of Nash than Howard.

:eyebrow: you shouldn't.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 10:47 AM
:eyebrow: you shouldn't.

....why not?

Against the heat, most of Orlando's wins came by their 3 point shooters going absolutely crazy.

Heat struggle sometimes with the pick and roll defense, and with Howard and GASOL in front, it's scary to think what Nash could do..

So as I said, I'm more worried about Nash than Howard.

xxplayerxx23
10-22-2012, 10:50 AM
....why not?

Against the heat, most of Orlando's wins came by their 3 point shooters going absolutely crazy.

Heat struggle sometimes with the pick and roll defense, and with Howard and GASOL in front, it's scary to think what Nash could do..

So as I said, I'm more worried about Nash than Howard.

Because you have no real Big man to stop him. You doubled him in orlando, the pick and roll is a two man game lol so Howard is more to fear then Nash.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 10:55 AM
Because you have no real Big man to stop him. You doubled him in orlando, the pick and roll is a two man game lol so Howard is more to fear then Nash.

If the lakers had 3 point shooters who would make you pay, I'd agree.

Sorry I just don't see it.

I see Nash exploiting the defense though..

xxplayerxx23
10-22-2012, 10:57 AM
If the lakers had 3 point shooters who would make you pay, I'd agree.

Sorry I just don't see it.

I see Nash exploiting the defense though..

But on defense Dwight is a game changer. They still have Nash, Kobe and Jamison to make you pay and MWP has looked better in that department.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 10:58 AM
Pick and roll between GASOL and Nash is scary as well, point of what I'm saying is I'm more fearful for Nash's courtvision than anything else.

I guess we wil find out, but a lot of Orlando's wins were comebacks when they just started chucking rainbow 3's and were knocking them down. Jameer, Richardson, Ryan Anderson, agent 0, and even hedo.

For the lakers there's no doubt about it that Nash's vision and ball handling skills are to be more feared than Howard.

Time will tell.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 10:59 AM
On defense with Howard playing the heat were blowing them out, you're saying as if Howard will negate bron or wade to 15 points lol..

With Howard playing, the heat were blowing te Orlando magic out than their 3 point shooters just came on fire. Happened twice last season.
And the season before happened 3 times.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 11:03 AM
But on defense Dwight is a game changer. They still have Nash, Kobe and Jamison to make you pay and MWP has looked better in that department.

I agree with what you're saying, but they aren't good 3 point shooters except Nash. And chalmers will never leak out to double team Howard lol only bron, wade, and the forward.

I have absolutely no faith in Jamison's skills.
MWP gets hot at times, Kobe is Kobe, but they aren't 3 point shooters save Nash, who are like what the Orlando magic offered. I mean literally everyone on court playing with Howard were good 3 point shooters in Orlando.

Nelson
Richardson
Hedo
Ryan Anderson
Howard

PraiseJesus
10-22-2012, 11:08 AM
I agree with what you're saying, but they aren't good 3 point shooters except Nash. And chalmers will never leak out to double team Howard lol only bron, wade, and the forward.

I have absolutely no faith in Jamison's skills.
MWP gets hot at times, Kobe is Kobe, but they aren't 3 point shooters save Nash, who are like what the Orlando magic offered. I mean literally everyone on court playing with Howard were good 3 point shooters in Orlando.

Nelson
Richardson
Hedo
Ryan Anderson
Howard

You are the only person who really understands the game that I've read on this site or heard on sports talk.

The impact of trading out Bynum for Dwight was soooo overrated it was ridiculous.

Dwight is an upgrade defensively but it's not a big difference.

The Lakers look awful to me compared to Thunder Heat

xxplayerxx23
10-22-2012, 11:08 AM
I agree with what you're saying, but they aren't good 3 point shooters except Nash. And chalmers will never leak out to double team Howard lol only bron, wade, and the forward.

I have absolutely no faith in Jamison's skills.
MWP gets hot at times, Kobe is Kobe, but they aren't 3 point shooters save Nash, who are like what the Orlando magic offered. I mean literally everyone on court playing with Howard were good 3 point shooters in Orlando.

Nelson
Richardson
Hedo
Ryan Anderson
Howard

Still can't leave these guys open. But yeah not the same as in orlando I agree. Id actually like to see this lineup with the Heat
Wade
Allen
Battier
Bron
Bosh.

xxplayerxx23
10-22-2012, 11:12 AM
Dwight to Bynum was huge on the defensive side and rebounding. Dwight requires more attention, it was a big upgrade.

CousinsEvansDUO
10-22-2012, 11:15 AM
Well Jimmer, Aaron Brooks and Isaiah Thomas were having a feast against nash the other night. Imagine if nash had to guard tyreke or wade or westrbrook. Bad things are going to happen.

PraiseJesus
10-22-2012, 11:16 AM
Still can't leave these guys open. But yeah not the same as in orlando I agree. Id actually like to see this lineup with the Heat
Wade
Allen
Battier
Bron
Bosh.

MWP is so open that he could set up a lounge chair and sip a margarita

gcoll
10-22-2012, 11:30 AM
He's not in Phoenix any more. Phoenix's medical staff has a pretty good reputation.

So, it's possible.

I didn't watch the game, but Nash was a little bit slower last year. He has started to rely more on the outlet pass, rather than pushing the ball himself; and he beat less people on the dribble.

blystr2002
10-22-2012, 12:00 PM
If anything I think he will be fresher and play better this year. Their is so much talent on this team that he won't have to be running non stop and do it himself. His numbers won't be as good, but that being said who cares it is about efficiency and effectiveness. Lakers won't need him to score as much. Also, he was never good at defense, so I don't think age will really affect his game based on vision, awareness and shooting.

Bravo95
10-22-2012, 01:04 PM
1 or 2 less shots attempted per game, maybe 3-4 fewer mins, but no significant dropoff as far as percentages.

Lakersfanla24
10-22-2012, 01:05 PM
I agree nash has looked a little off so far, but its preseason and he is trying to adapt to a new system that isnt built completely around him. Everything will work out fine for him, and once these players get use to each other watch out. Kobe is attacking the rim like he is 25, and passing the ball and moving off the ball more than i have ever seen him do, MWP is in great shape, Gasol is actually going to the rim strong and dunking the ball instead of soft layups, Dwight is an absolute beast on defense (4 blocks last night, and his timing was off, easily could have had more) and Nash is still one of the best shooters in the game. Does that make the Lakers the Champs already? No but once this team starts to gell its gonna be a beautiful thing to watch.

PraiseJesus
10-22-2012, 01:12 PM
I agree nash has looked a little off so far, but its preseason and he is trying to adapt to a new system that isnt built completely around him. Everything will work out fine for him, and once these players get use to each other watch out. Kobe is attacking the rim like he is 25, and passing the ball and moving off the ball more than i have ever seen him do, MWP is in great shape, Gasol is actually going to the rim strong and dunking the ball instead of soft layups, Dwight is an absolute beast on defense (4 blocks last night, and his timing was off, easily could have had more) and Nash is still one of the best shooters in the game. Does that make the Lakers the Champs already? No but once this team starts to gell its gonna be a beautiful thing to watch.

And then the Bench comes in the game and blows 15 point leads

SteBO
10-22-2012, 01:17 PM
1 or 2 less shots attempted per game, maybe 3-4 fewer mins, but no significant dropoff as far as percentages.
My thoughts here exactly. He's just too good a shooter and that doesn't go away with age. I think Nash will be fine this year.

Lakersfanla24
10-22-2012, 01:18 PM
You are the only person who really understands the game that I've read on this site or heard on sports talk.

The impact of trading out Bynum for Dwight was soooo overrated it was ridiculous.

Dwight is an upgrade defensively but it's not a big difference.

The Lakers look awful to me compared to Thunder Heat

:facepalm: Did you even watch the differences defensively with Howard on the floor? Or are you just too blinded by your man crush on Bynum? Howard plays hard on both ends of the floor all game, whether he is getting touches or not. Our pick and roll defense as well as our transition defense is 100x better than it was with Bynum.

Adande on how Dwight makes the lakers better defensively
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/story/_/id/8535971/nba-debut-new-home-los-angeles-lakers-dwight-howard

Opponents have been pushing the tempo against the Lakers throughout the preseason and the Lakers starters' aging legs have not been able to get back in time. Since the Lakers didn't acquire Howard for his speed, it seemed those problems would continue even after he took the floor. Not so, for two key reasons.

If he's going to help the Lakers' offense be this effective then opponents won't get many fast-break chances. Tough to run off of alley-oop dunks and swished 3-pointers. The Lakers shot 60 percent in the first half. The other, more surprising benefit for the Lakers: Howard's poor free throw shooting. Because teams are so quick to foul him around the basket it stops the game and allows the Lakers to get set on defense.

So while the Lakers will lose points with the numerous missed free throws from Howard, they also won't be giving up as many easy buckets at the other end when he's in.

The Kings had only four fast-break points in the first half and 11 for the game. That's after Sacramento had 28 of them in a 103-98 victory over the Lakers in Las Vegas on Friday night. Utah scored 53 fast-break points in two games against the Lakers last week. You see where this was headed.

You could also see from the Lakers' first half-court defensive set how Kobe Bryant feels free to cheat on the high side or gamble for steals knowing that Howard is protecting the paint. Or the reluctance dribblers will feel in attacking the basket.

Lakersfanla24
10-22-2012, 01:19 PM
And then the Bench comes in the game and blows 15 point leads

I agree but at all times when the bench is on the floor Kobe, Nash, Gasol, Howard, or a combination of them will be on the floor, or at least they should be.

Chill_Will_24
10-22-2012, 01:31 PM
Nash takes amazing care of his body and it is quite possible that because of his age he is not really going 100% out there in pre-season.

torocan
10-22-2012, 01:31 PM
And then the Bench comes in the game and blows 15 point leads

Yup. The one takeaway from last night's game is the Lakers' bench needs help. A whole LOT of help.

It would be a tragedy to have one of the best starting 5 in the league and have that completely undone by the awful bench play...

MetroMan
10-22-2012, 02:30 PM
Nash looked bad, fragile and lost

Dwight, even though he got good numbers, his post up d and body contact was not good. He needs to hit the weight room. His shoulders and Arms looked like his first2 years in the nba.

Ron looked good, Kobe looked good, pau was good.

Jamison looks like a pure American trying to read directions in Kazakhstan. Simply lost.

Bench was atrocious.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-22-2012, 02:49 PM
You guys are silly. It's Howard's first game post injury.
Like wade, he'll improve.

I'm not worried about him at all cos he will fine.
Nash is the key factor.

jerellh528
10-22-2012, 02:57 PM
Of course he will be in decline, anyone over 32 starts to...but for the lakers even if he plays half of what he normally does he will be a vast improvement over what they have been winning rings with at pg. All the lakers need him to do is get guys involved in the offense and hit a high percentage jumper every now and then, and nash is fantastic at that even in his old age..plus its only preseason and just learning how to play with his new team, he will be alright lol.

PraiseJesus
10-22-2012, 03:03 PM
Yup. The one takeaway from last night's game is the Lakers' bench needs help. A whole LOT of help.

It would be a tragedy to have one of the best starting 5 in the league and have that completely undone by the awful bench play...

bingo

JasonJohnHorn
10-22-2012, 03:10 PM
It is pre-season... Nash is getting a feel for the players he plays with and it was Howard's first game. Nash and Howard don't fit in as smoothly with Kobe and Gasol as Allen and Garnett did with Pierce... and Nash is the guy running the point, every player around him is new to him. In Phoenix there were a revolving door of players while he was there, but he always had players he was familiar with. Now he's got to learn everybody's sweet spots and where they like to get the ball... it'll take a few weeks.

Howard... it was his first game. He's got a new system to learn as well.

Alayla
10-22-2012, 06:04 PM
I think this is wishfull thinking on the part of the OP

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 06:10 PM
at his age? Sure, its going to come. But in reality, Nash is learning a new offense, with new teammates. He will be fine. Height, ball handling, and shooting don't go away, which is why Nash has been able to age so well. If he stays healthy, he should be fine.

That being said, he has already started his decline. 4 years ago, he had a PER of 23+, OFF rtg of 120+, and win shares of 10+. They have steadily declined since. The dude is going to be 39 this season.

THE MTL
10-22-2012, 06:22 PM
No more fountain of youth in phoenix.

Blitzbolt
10-22-2012, 06:30 PM
Maybe on Defense I easily see Wesbrook(and others) blowing him in every single play but D12 should be waiting in the paint.So it might not be an issue.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2012, 06:33 PM
Maybe on Defense I easily see Wesbrook(and others) blowing him in every single play but D12 should be waiting in the paint.So it might not be an issue.

Westbrook won't even get to D12. He has that ridiculous pull up where he stops on a dime. Its why I seriously don't think LAL is beating the Thunder. Westbrook will absolutely destroy them, and the Lakers have nobody to bother Durant. The Lakers interior SHOULD be getting the ball every single possession, but I don't know if Kobe will allow that.

Honestly, if Kobe takes a back seat to his frontcourt, I can't see the Lakers being stopped. But Kobe's brain doesn't work that way.