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BackyardRounder
10-22-2012, 01:24 AM
Assuming the options on R.A. Dickey and James Shields get picked up, here's the top 15 free agent starters available (ranked by WAR), and how they performed over the last two seasons.

1. Zack Greinke (28) - 384 IP, 2.32 BB/9, 9.40 K/9, 3.62 ERA, 3.05 FIP, 9.1 WAR
2. Dan Haren (32) - 415 IP, 1.54 BB/9, 7.24 K/9, 3.67 ERA, 3.52 FIP, 7.9 WAR
3. Anibal Sanchez (29) - 392 IP, 2.57 BB/9, 8.47 K/9, 3.77 ERA, 3.44 FIP, 7.6 WAR
4. Jake Peavy (31) - 330 IP, 1.99 BB/9, 7.87 K/9, 3.89 ERA, 3.56 FIP, 7.4 WAR
5. Brandon McCarthy (29) - 281.2 IP, 1.57 BB/9, 6.26 K/9, 3.29 ERA, 3.22 FIP, 6.6 WAR
6. Edwin Jackson (29) - 389.1 IP, 2.77 BB/9, 7.30 K/9, 3.91 ERA, 3.69 FIP, 6.5 WAR
7. Tim Hudson (37) - 394 IP, 2.38 BB/9, 5.94 K/9, 3.40 ERA, 3.57 FIP, 6.5 WAR
8. Hiroki Kuroda (38) - 421.2 IP, 2.13 BB/9, 7 K/9, 3.20 ERA, 3.82 FIP, 6.1 WAR
9. Kyle Lohse (34) - 399.1 IP, 1.80 BB/9, 5.72 K/9, 3.11 ERA, 3.58 FIP, 6.1 WAR
10. Ryan Dempster (36) - 375.1 IP, 3.21 BB/9, 8.25 K/9, 4.15 ERA, 3.81 FIP, 6.0 WAR
11. Gavin Floyd (30) - 361.2 IP, 2.69 BB/9, 7.34 K/9, 4.33 ERA, 4.11 FIP, 5.7 WAR
12. Barolo Colon (40) - 316.2 IP, 1.79 BB/9, 6.42 K/9, 3.72 ERA, 3.83 FIP, 5.2 WAR
13. Paul Maholm (30) - 3.51 IP, 2.64 BB/9, 6.07 K/9, 3.66 ERA, 3.90 FIP, 4.4 WAR
14. Jeff Francis (32) - 296 IP, 1.85 BB/9, 5.08 K/9, 5.11 ERA, 4.17 FIP, 4.3 WAR
15. Shaun Marcum (31) - 324.2 IP, 2.72 BB/9, 7.40 K/9, 3.60 ERA, 3.87 FIP, 4.2 WAR

Considering the overall quality of the pitcher, their likely contract requests and their age, which ones most interest you?

AI
10-22-2012, 01:30 AM
Is Tim Hudson a FA? I don't think he is, I believe the Braves hold an option.

On one year deals: Kuroda, Haren, McCarthy and Dempster.
Long-term deals: Sanchez is the only guy who I believe we'd consider for such a deal.

BackyardRounder
10-22-2012, 01:34 AM
Is Tim Hudson a FA? I don't think he is, I believe the Braves hold an option.

On one year deals: Kuroda, Haren, McCarthy and Dempster.
Long-term deals: Sanchez is the only guy who I believe we'd consider for such a deal.

I assumed only the options on Dickey and James were picked up. Hudson has a $9 million option, which I considered debatable whether Atlanta would pick up or not so I included him on the list. If Hudson was excluded from the list, Derek Lowe would be 15th.

Celtic AL
10-22-2012, 01:51 AM
Haren or McCarthy
one of these two would be great

BackyardRounder
10-22-2012, 01:55 AM
It seems almost inevitable that we we make a serious run at Greinke. We have roughly $100 million in yearly salary to work with, our largest need is starting pitching, Greinke's 28 years old and between last off-season, this off-season and next off-season he's arguably the best free agent starting pitcher.

goshhhjosh
10-22-2012, 08:42 AM
Is Tim Hudson a FA? I don't think he is, I believe the Braves hold an option.

On one year deals: Kuroda, Haren, McCarthy and Dempster.
Long-term deals: Sanchez is the only guy who I believe we'd consider for such a deal.

Agreed. I think the Yankees might try to retain Kuroda. He pitched pretty well for them down the stretch and in the playoffs. I wouldn't mind your aforementioned one-year deal.

Sanchez would be a decent addition and pitched well against the Yankees in his start in the ALCS (then again the Yankees offense was terrible.)

I think the Red Sox should go after Bartolo Colon - I mean his first tenure in Boston went swell I thought. You know receiving time off to deal with family issues in the Dominican Republic and then never returning to the team. Yeah let's get that guy!

wolf82
10-22-2012, 08:52 AM
I def would go after Haren, and Sanchez.

McCarthy, I'm not sure he is ok. The guy is BIG Healthy risk, plus almost got his head knocked off. Depending where his head is (no pun intended). Hopefully the guy won't be skidish on the mound when he comes back.

Jackson is a possibility, but I think he wants a multi-year deal. Depends how much.

Floyd, would be a good reclaimation project. If he take a pay cut he'd be a good #5

Station 13
10-22-2012, 08:59 AM
Sanchez won't cost a draft pick. 4/60M? Maybe more 1/15+ additonal.

corky831
10-22-2012, 09:25 AM
if I could get anyone of these pitchers on a 3 yr deal I would: Haren, McCarthy, Sanchez, or Peavy. I'd prob only be willing to give Sanchez a 4 yr deal, but that's it. I'd prefer to give McCarthy or Peavy two yr deals bc of their health issues, but I'd be willing to go 3.

Nomar
10-22-2012, 10:06 AM
I like Sanchez but no more than 4 years and I'd prefer 3.

I haven't seen a projection that has him making more than 12.5M either

ricomactaco
10-22-2012, 10:15 AM
Assuming the options on R.A. Dickey and James Shields get picked up, here's the top 15 free agent starters available (ranked by WAR), and how they performed over the last two seasons.

1. Zack Greinke (28) - 384 IP, 2.32 BB/9, 9.40 K/9, 3.62 ERA, 3.05 FIP, 9.1 WAR
2. Dan Haren (32) - 415 IP, 1.54 BB/9, 7.24 K/9, 3.67 ERA, 3.52 FIP, 7.9 WAR
3. Anibal Sanchez (29) - 392 IP, 2.57 BB/9, 8.47 K/9, 3.77 ERA, 3.44 FIP, 7.6 WAR
4. Jake Peavy (31) - 330 IP, 1.99 BB/9, 7.87 K/9, 3.89 ERA, 3.56 FIP, 7.4 WAR
5. Brandon McCarthy (29) - 281.2 IP, 1.57 BB/9, 6.26 K/9, 3.29 ERA, 3.22 FIP, 6.6 WAR
6. Edwin Jackson (29) - 389.1 IP, 2.77 BB/9, 7.30 K/9, 3.91 ERA, 3.69 FIP, 6.5 WAR
7. Tim Hudson (37) - 394 IP, 2.38 BB/9, 5.94 K/9, 3.40 ERA, 3.57 FIP, 6.5 WAR
8. Hiroki Kuroda (38) - 421.2 IP, 2.13 BB/9, 7 K/9, 3.20 ERA, 3.82 FIP, 6.1 WAR
9. Kyle Lohse (34) - 399.1 IP, 1.80 BB/9, 5.72 K/9, 3.11 ERA, 3.58 FIP, 6.1 WAR
10. Ryan Dempster (36) - 375.1 IP, 3.21 BB/9, 8.25 K/9, 4.15 ERA, 3.81 FIP, 6.0 WAR
11. Gavin Floyd (30) - 361.2 IP, 2.69 BB/9, 7.34 K/9, 4.33 ERA, 4.11 FIP, 5.7 WAR
12. Barolo Colon (40) - 316.2 IP, 1.79 BB/9, 6.42 K/9, 3.72 ERA, 3.83 FIP, 5.2 WAR
13. Paul Maholm (30) - 3.51 IP, 2.64 BB/9, 6.07 K/9, 3.66 ERA, 3.90 FIP, 4.4 WAR
14. Jeff Francis (32) - 296 IP, 1.85 BB/9, 5.08 K/9, 5.11 ERA, 4.17 FIP, 4.3 WAR
15. Shaun Marcum (31) - 324.2 IP, 2.72 BB/9, 7.40 K/9, 3.60 ERA, 3.87 FIP, 4.2 WAR

Considering the overall quality of the pitcher, their likely contract requests and their age, which ones most interest you?

What about Joe Saunders? did the O's extend him?

Nomar
10-22-2012, 10:34 AM
He's available but I'd rarer go Gavin Floyd than Saunders

ruckus16969
10-22-2012, 10:54 AM
Assuming the options on R.A. Dickey and James Shields get picked up, here's the top 15 free agent starters available (ranked by WAR), and how they performed over the last two seasons.

1. Zack Greinke (28) - 384 IP, 2.32 BB/9, 9.40 K/9, 3.62 ERA, 3.05 FIP, 9.1 WAR
2. Dan Haren (32) - 415 IP, 1.54 BB/9, 7.24 K/9, 3.67 ERA, 3.52 FIP, 7.9 WAR
3. Anibal Sanchez (29) - 392 IP, 2.57 BB/9, 8.47 K/9, 3.77 ERA, 3.44 FIP, 7.6 WAR
4. Jake Peavy (31) - 330 IP, 1.99 BB/9, 7.87 K/9, 3.89 ERA, 3.56 FIP, 7.4 WAR
5. Brandon McCarthy (29) - 281.2 IP, 1.57 BB/9, 6.26 K/9, 3.29 ERA, 3.22 FIP, 6.6 WAR
6. Edwin Jackson (29) - 389.1 IP, 2.77 BB/9, 7.30 K/9, 3.91 ERA, 3.69 FIP, 6.5 WAR
7. Tim Hudson (37) - 394 IP, 2.38 BB/9, 5.94 K/9, 3.40 ERA, 3.57 FIP, 6.5 WAR
8. Hiroki Kuroda (38) - 421.2 IP, 2.13 BB/9, 7 K/9, 3.20 ERA, 3.82 FIP, 6.1 WAR
9. Kyle Lohse (34) - 399.1 IP, 1.80 BB/9, 5.72 K/9, 3.11 ERA, 3.58 FIP, 6.1 WAR
10. Ryan Dempster (36) - 375.1 IP, 3.21 BB/9, 8.25 K/9, 4.15 ERA, 3.81 FIP, 6.0 WAR
11. Gavin Floyd (30) - 361.2 IP, 2.69 BB/9, 7.34 K/9, 4.33 ERA, 4.11 FIP, 5.7 WAR
12. Barolo Colon (40) - 316.2 IP, 1.79 BB/9, 6.42 K/9, 3.72 ERA, 3.83 FIP, 5.2 WAR
13. Paul Maholm (30) - 3.51 IP, 2.64 BB/9, 6.07 K/9, 3.66 ERA, 3.90 FIP, 4.4 WAR
14. Jeff Francis (32) - 296 IP, 1.85 BB/9, 5.08 K/9, 5.11 ERA, 4.17 FIP, 4.3 WAR
15. Shaun Marcum (31) - 324.2 IP, 2.72 BB/9, 7.40 K/9, 3.60 ERA, 3.87 FIP, 4.2 WAR

Considering the overall quality of the pitcher, their likely contract requests and their age, which ones most interest you?

Lohse
Harren
Dempster
Sancheez

In that order

Nomar
10-22-2012, 10:57 AM
Lohse
Harren
Dempster
Sancheez

In that order

You do know that Lohse's ERA is totally deflated judging by his FIP right? In the AL East he would get killed.

quinnjack
10-22-2012, 12:08 PM
It seems almost inevitable that we we make a serious run at Greinke. We have roughly $100 million in yearly salary to work with, our largest need is starting pitching, Greinke's 28 years old and between last off-season, this off-season and next off-season he's arguably the best free agent starting pitcher.

How is it that your posts are always so wrong?

Nomar
10-22-2012, 12:10 PM
How is it that your posts are always so wrong?

Hahaha ****ed up!

But agreed that Greinke is too big of a risk and investment in general. I dont want to give out any $100M contracts for a while.

taffi101
10-22-2012, 12:17 PM
It seems almost inevitable that we we make a serious run at Greinke. We have roughly $100 million in yearly salary to work with, our largest need is starting pitching, Greinke's 28 years old and between last off-season, this off-season and next off-season he's arguably the best free agent starting pitcher.

I think they kick the tires on Greinke, but I doubt it amounts to much.

From most accounts, he doesn't like the big market spotlight, as his apparent social anxiety problem would attest to.

I think this is the year the Sox push for Edwin Jackson, or if Haren comes into play, with his option being declined, he will be targeted as well.

taffi101
10-22-2012, 12:20 PM
Hahaha ****ed up!

But agreed that Greinke is too big of a risk and investment in general. I dont want to give out any $100M contracts for a while.


Agreed.


Greinke will push for a deal somewhere around a Cliff Lee, Sabathia deal I'm assuming. I'm guessing also that he is looking for 6-7 years.

The Sox were doing fine when they were in the business of not going any longer than 3 years, then along cam Drew, Lugo et all.....

bagwell368
10-22-2012, 12:43 PM
It seems almost inevitable that we we make a serious run at Greinke. We have roughly $100 million in yearly salary to work with, our largest need is starting pitching, Greinke's 28 years old and between last off-season, this off-season and next off-season he's arguably the best free agent starting pitcher.

I'm too risk averse to toss the dice on him.

I'd be happier with Haren, Jackson, and a few others.

No Saunders please (if he's available), careful of the NL successes to.

xnick5757
10-22-2012, 01:10 PM
honestly I don't really like any of these pitchers, unless its on 1 year prove it deals.


this is what our rotation is at the moment right?

1 LHP Jon Lester
2 LHP Felix Doubront
3 RHP Clay Buchholz
4 RHP John Lackey
5 LHP Franklin Morales

(i think doubront is a better pitcher than clay)

bagwell368
10-22-2012, 01:23 PM
honestly I don't really like any of these pitchers, unless its on 1 year prove it deals.


this is what our rotation is at the moment right?

1 LHP Jon Lester
2 LHP Felix Doubront
3 RHP Clay Buchholz
4 RHP John Lackey
5 LHP Franklin Morales

(i think doubront is a better pitcher than clay)

Maybe so. That might be the rank list, but the rotation with 3 lefties is going to break them up with the RHP.

Lester
Buchholz
Doubront
Lackey
Morales

Depends on the progress of the top kids in the system. But if they don't think they can get a 3-4 SP out of what they have, they'll have to buy one, because the depth of this staff isn't at all good.

BackyardRounder
10-22-2012, 01:54 PM
How is it that your posts are always so wrong?

Enlighten me, what's wrong about thinking the front office will make a serious push for Greinke? Nowhere did I say he would be my preference.

BradytoGronkTD
10-22-2012, 01:58 PM
Edwin Jackson is the only one that intrigues me.

BackyardRounder
10-22-2012, 02:22 PM
My preference would be Anibal Sanchez. He's still under the age of 30, could be had on short(ish) years, has pitched 195 innings in each of the last three years, has had a 3.8 WAR or better in each of the last three years, and the advanced stats suggest he's actually underperformed. He's pitched well in the American League and the playoffs to boot.

SirHizz
10-22-2012, 02:56 PM
Wow, that's a pretty thin list. Not even the best pitcher available is a true ace. I can only see them going after someone like Haren. The rest of our rotation is pretty much set, even though it lacks quality. Lester, Buchholz, *Haren, Douby, Lackey. I doubt this gets it done, but it would buy us time to see how our pitching-specs develop and maybe next years FA class has more to offer...

mzg32
10-22-2012, 04:25 PM
For me I'd be Jackson, Peavy (2 yr, vesting option for 3rd), or Sanchez (max 4 yrs).

I love McCarthy, but that hit in the head reminds me of Matt Clement.... He never was successful again. Maybe a 1yr pillow contract.

I'd also take Haren only on a 1yr deal, if we really want/need him add a 2nd year vesting option

Soxfan85
10-22-2012, 04:48 PM
I'd take Peavy if and I mean BIG if can get Tim Lincecum that would be awesome.

My lineup with both

Lester

Buchholz

Lackey

Doubront

Peavey
-------
Now with Tim we may need to juggle the orders

This lineup if healthy :drool:

Lester

Tim

Clay

Lackey

Felix

Crucis
10-22-2012, 05:27 PM
I think that the two guys that I'd like to see at the top of the Sox' list are Peavey and Anibel Sanchez.

I don't dislike Jackson, but I think that he thinks that he's worth more than I think he's worth. I see him more as a back of the rotation 4 or 5 guy, and I think that he's thinking of himself more as a 2 or 3 guy. And I don't want to see the Sox paying long term 2 or 3 dollars to a 4 or 5 starter.

BackyardRounder
10-22-2012, 05:42 PM
Wow, that's a pretty thin list. Not even the best pitcher available is a true ace. I can only see them going after someone like Haren. The rest of our rotation is pretty much set, even though it lacks quality. Lester, Buchholz, *Haren, Douby, Lackey. I doubt this gets it done, but it would buy us time to see how our pitching-specs develop and maybe next years FA class has more to offer...

I'd have a serious issue with us going in to next year with Lackey and Doubront penciled in as the #4 and #5 considering the amount of money we have to spend and the fact that we're coming off our worst ERA in franchise history.

GrkGawdofWalkz
10-22-2012, 05:43 PM
Dan Haren and Anibal Sanchez. That's the interest list in my opinion and in order of talent's. Grienke is a headcase and really didn't hold up when they needed him too. The Angels wind up keeping him in my opinion.

ricomactaco
10-22-2012, 06:46 PM
Would love to get Haren and Sanchez too. Not sure why you wouldnt want Saunders Bags. He looked great under pressure for the O's this year. Whoever we get, I hope the Sox move smoothly and quickly once free angency starts. Just like they did getting our manager in place.

Nomar
10-22-2012, 07:42 PM
IMO Saunders is the exact type of pitcher that you want to face at Fenway. Soft throwing lefty.

win red sox
10-22-2012, 07:43 PM
I'd have a serious issue with us going in to next year with Lackey and Doubront penciled in as the #4 and #5 considering the amount of money we have to spend and the fact that we're coming off our worst ERA in franchise history.

there's nothing wrong with Lackey and Doubrant as the 4-5 starters, as a matter fact you can make the arguement that Doubrant has the most upside out of the current starters. What concerns me is lester who has been on a steady decline for the last 3 years, if he is our no 1 or even no 2 you know its going to be a long season. I would hope that Lester is shopped this year for young pitching or a firstbasemen and then maybe get peavy for 2/28 and sanchez whos value has probaly skyrocketed, at the minimum your looking at 5/75.

Peavy
Buchholz
Sanchez
Doubront
Lackey

ricomactaco
10-23-2012, 09:04 AM
IMO Saunders is the exact type of pitcher that you want to face at Fenway. Soft throwing lefty.

A soft throwing lefty that shut everyone down in pressure packed situations. Name a guy in our rotation that would have done the same. Thats right nobody. Not saying we absolutely have to have this guy but he should not be overlooked

taffi101
10-23-2012, 09:40 AM
A soft throwing lefty that shut everyone down in pressure packed situations. Name a guy in our rotation that would have done the same. Thats right nobody. Not saying we absolutely have to have this guy but he should not be overlooked

Saunders gives up a lot of hits, and he doesn't generate many swings and misses. He gives up some gopher balls as well, which to me, over the coarse of an entire season, might lead to him getting beat around a bit in the AL East parks/teams.

I think you'd see an ERA around 4.80-5.00.

I think Doubront has much more upside going forward, and having 3 lefties? I dunno.... I'm a lefty myself, so I have a soft spot for them, but I think maybe the money is better spent on a harder throwing guy who is a righty.

You never know though....

And Lester does have the stuff on any given day to shut a line-up down...

bagwell368
10-23-2012, 10:03 AM
A soft throwing lefty that shut everyone down in pressure packed situations. Name a guy in our rotation that would have done the same. Thats right nobody. Not saying we absolutely have to have this guy but he should not be overlooked

Saunders FB has dropped from an average of 90.5 to 88.9 over the past two years

He gets smoked in Boston and Baltimore.

Since 2009 his ERA+ by years:

095
092
107
103 -- or basically league average

His career WHIP is 1.369 - which isn't very good.

His career slash against RHP: .286/.341/.463 - 45 OPS+ above how does vs LHP.


No thanks - not at $6M+ per year for multiple years.

Either we spend some good money for a good pitcher, or small money for a couple of junk heap guys, and hope 1 emerges. But to spend good money on a lefty with dicey numbers in Fenway? A "safe" "middle of the road" type pitcher that is wrong for this team now.

Edwin Jackson has a high WHIP and gets mashed in Fenway too, but at least his FB is above D2 quality. He might cost more than Saunders, but also throws more innings over the past 5 years. With two lefties already in the rotation, what do we need with another?

PapelbonLester
10-23-2012, 10:26 AM
Brandon McCarthy. Past 2 seasons have posted a sub 3.32 and 3.24 era. They would jump to a 3.8 in Boston but would be the best on the team. Please please get him and JH and our team will be so much better. If not Dan Haren would be a solid pickup

bagwell368
10-23-2012, 10:30 AM
I had McCarthy in my SIM last year.

My concern with him is that since he became a starter he's pitched this many IP per year:

101.2
022.0
097.1
000.0
170.2
111.0

One year over 111.0 IP in six years? That's got to be a concern. He's got to be checked very closely.

PapelbonLester
10-23-2012, 10:42 AM
I had McCarthy in my SIM last year.

My concern with him is that since he became a starter he's pitched this many IP per year:

101.2
022.0
097.1
000.0
170.2
111.0

One year over 111.0 IP in six years? That's got to be a concern. He's got to be checked very closely.

I agree but id rather have him for 100 innings rather than Joe Saunders for 150 lol

BackyardRounder
10-23-2012, 11:50 AM
I agree but id rather have him for 100 innings rather than Joe Saunders for 150 lol

It's not an either/or situation. I'd rather spend the money on an older player with a short injury history, who's been successful in the AL East (Marcum) than on a young player with an extensive injury history who never had an ERA under 4.00 before he went to Oakland in 2011 (McCarthy).

Nomar
10-23-2012, 11:51 AM
The good thing to know of we did sign McCarthy is that we have Morales and De La Rosa to fall back on if an injury occurs. Still if we were to sign him I would want him thoroughly examined to make sure there weren't any huge red flags still there.

todu82
10-23-2012, 03:42 PM
Dan Haren and Anibal Sanchez would be my top choices for a starting pitcher to be added through free agency for the team.

Bo Sox Fan
10-23-2012, 04:08 PM
I'm afraid the younger guys like Grienke, Sanchez and Jackson will all get highly overpaid in years and dough since starting pitching is a desperate need for several (big market) teams this offseason.

We should just pick up some experienced inning eaters with talent, who we can actually get on shorter term deals like a Dan Haren or Jake Peavy that can still win a ball game by themselves, but for the most part keep the team in games consistantly enough while letting our offence do it's thing.

RaginRondo17
10-23-2012, 04:30 PM
If the Angels let Ervin Santana go I think we should make a run at him.

1. Santana
2. Haren
3. Jackson

Would be my wish-list if we were only going to add one starting pitcher.

ccspence8
10-23-2012, 04:55 PM
1. Sanchez
2. Haren
3. Jackson
4. Santana
5. McCarthy

Happy with those in that order, Greinke doesn't make sense. Would rather trade for King Felix then sign Greinke to that type of money & years. Just like I'd rather trade for Justin Upton then break the bank for Hamilton. We need to stay away from those ridiculous contracts that got us in trouble to begin with.

Nomar
10-23-2012, 04:59 PM
1) Haren
2) Sanchez
3) McCarthy
4) Peavy (if not given a QO)
5) Marcum (same as Peavy)

I guess that's my top 5. 2 years max for Haren and McCarthy, 3 years max for the remaining. I'm on the fence bout Marcum getting more than 2 years though. A low price alternative may be Gavin Floyd. He's a workhorse and has actually been a solid pitcher overall. Good 4th starter at least.

I dont see the point of going after Ervin Santana. He's had one good year in his whole career. The rest of the decent years wouldnt be at all if he was in the AL East. He gave up a ton of HRs this year in Anaheim, that could only be even more horrifying of a problem if his home park was Fenway.

BackyardRounder
10-23-2012, 06:00 PM
Haren, Sanchez and Peavy are all pretty similar. I'd take whichever one had the most reasonable contract demands.

ricomactaco
10-23-2012, 06:10 PM
I'm afraid the younger guys like Grienke, Sanchez and Jackson will all get highly overpaid in years and dough since starting pitching is a desperate need for several (big market) teams this offseason.

We should just pick up some experienced inning eaters with talent, who we can actually get on shorter term deals like a Dan Haren or Jake Peavy that can still win a ball game by themselves, but for the most part keep the team in games consistantly enough while letting our offence do it's thing.

I agree. I would love Sanchez but expect other teams would too and are willing to dish out big money/years. Jackson won't be as much but will want a multiyear contract too after last years 1 year deal to build his worth. Peavy wants BIG money. Seems that Haren would be available for less. Still love Saunders no matter what you guys think. He's a gamer and will cost little IMO.

BostonSports96
10-23-2012, 06:14 PM
Sanchez, Haren or bust.

(By bust I mean try it out with De La Rosa as the #5 starter)

wolf82
10-29-2012, 12:12 PM
Sanchez, Haren or bust.

(By bust I mean try it out with De La Rosa as the #5 starter)


How far is Webster from being called up? I dunno much about him.

I'd say go for Haren and Peavy with insentives.

Detroit said Sanchez is a priority to be resigned. So, his price is gonna go way yup.

Also E. Jackson would be a good cheap pick up for a #5

Majesty17
10-29-2012, 12:43 PM
Haren and Lincecum :pray::jumpy::pray:

BostonSports96
10-29-2012, 12:53 PM
How far is Webster from being called up? I dunno much about him.

I'd say go for Haren and Peavy with insentives.

Detroit said Sanchez is a priority to be resigned. So, his price is gonna go way yup.

Also E. Jackson would be a good cheap pick up for a #5

Edwin Jackson sucked for the Rays when he was in the AL East, plus he'll cost a lot. (NO)

Sanchez will probably stay in Detroit. (Probably a NO)

Peavy is an overpriced injury waiting to happen. (NO)

Haren will be expensive but we could probably get him on a 1 year deal. (YES)

Webster could be up mid-season next year, and De La Rosa could break spring training with the roster or he'll be called up mid-season too.

bruins>habs
10-29-2012, 12:57 PM
I would go Sanchez, Haren, and that's it...I don't see anything else worth it after those two, a rotation of:

Lester
Buchholz
Sanchez/Haren
Doubrant
Lackey/De La Rosa (really hope he can make it next year)

looks pretty damn good, on paper anyway

bagwell368
10-29-2012, 01:01 PM
Edwin Jackson sucked for the Rays when he was in the AL East, plus he'll cost a lot. (NO)

Since 2009 when Jackson got good, his splits against AL teams are quite decent - including the AL East.


Haren will be expensive but we could probably get him on a 1 year deal. (YES)

Webster could be up mid-season next year, and De La Rosa could break spring training with the roster or he'll be called up mid-season too.

Agree on the rest of this.

taffi101
10-29-2012, 01:29 PM
Haren and Lincecum :pray::jumpy::pray:

Better part of $35-38M for a couple of question mark guys? I don't know. Maybe one, but not both.

quinnjack
10-29-2012, 03:36 PM
How far is Webster from being called up? I dunno much about him.

I'd say go for Haren and Peavy with insentives.

Detroit said Sanchez is a priority to be resigned. So, his price is gonna go way yup.

Also E. Jackson would be a good cheap pick up for a #5

Webster, of all pitchers in the farm system, save for maybe Brandon Workman, is the closest to the majors.

I don't see either as anything more than quality 4/5's.

BGeer091
10-29-2012, 06:10 PM
I'd still trade Lester... Maybe a Lester + deal to STL for Wainright, Shelby Miller.

Or a Ellsbury, Kalish, Iglesis, and Workman to SF for Lincecum and Crawford..

Pedroia, Buchholz, Bard, Brentz+ to Arizona for Parra, Upton and Cahill.

Just some ideas...

BGeer091
10-29-2012, 06:16 PM
To add to my above post... One of those pitchers in the deals. With one of Haren, Peavy, or Hudson. I think you can build an affective stop gap rotation with some depth. Until of course our young guns come up.

I maybe overly optimistic but I believe a rotation of;
Barnes
Owens
Webster
De la Rosa
Ranaudo

Is going to be a great one for years to come.

Nomar
10-29-2012, 06:25 PM
To add to my above post... One of those pitchers in the deals. With one of Haren, Peavy, or Hudson. I think you can build an affective stop gap rotation with some depth. Until of course our young guns come up.

I maybe overly optimistic but I believe a rotation of;
Barnes
Owens
Webster
De la Rosa
Ranaudo

Is going to be a great one for years to come.

I can almost 100% guarantee you that the rotation will never look like that. Nothing ever goes that smoothly.

mzg32
10-29-2012, 06:41 PM
Realistically, we should sign at least one #3 and another SP as depth.

I think we should go after Haren, Jackson or Peavy, but trying no to go above 2yrs (3 for Jackson).

Also, sign Danks for depth. If possible, add McCarthy with a minor league contract with an invite to ST. I know McCarthy has the higher ceiling, but he's injury prone and who knows if he regain his 2012 form after that hit in the head; Danks is more consistent and probably can be signed for few years and less money.

Nomar
10-29-2012, 06:53 PM
I would rather give 3 years to Haren or Peavy than Jackson, even with injury concerns. I dont trust Jackson in our division at all. And even if injuries are a problem for someone we sign, at least we'll finally have decent young arms starting to be ready other than Kyle Weiland (De La Rosa this year, Webster and maybe Barnes & Workman the next).

win red sox
10-29-2012, 06:56 PM
Realistically, we should sign at least one #3 and another SP as depth.

I think we should go after Haren, Jackson or Peavy, but trying no to go above 2yrs (3 for Jackson).

Also, sign Danks for depth. If possible, add McCarthy with a minor league contract with an invite to ST. I know McCarthy has the higher ceiling, but he's injury prone and who knows if he regain his 2012 form after that hit in the head; Danks is more consistent and probably can be signed for few years and less money.

If your talking about John Danks, he signed a 5 year extension last off season. There's no way that Haren,Jackson or Peavy signs a 1 year contract, especially to come to Boston.

taffi101
10-29-2012, 08:02 PM
Realistically, we should sign at least one #3 and another SP as depth.

I think we should go after Haren, Jackson or Peavy, but trying no to go above 2yrs (3 for Jackson).

Also, sign Danks for depth. If possible, add McCarthy with a minor league contract with an invite to ST. I know McCarthy has the higher ceiling, but he's injury prone and who knows if he regain his 2012 form after that hit in the head; Danks is more consistent and probably can be signed for few years and less money.

John Danks is signed thru 2016 at $13M AAV, unless his contract status has changed at some point. He would have to be traded for.

McCarthy definitely comes with a ton of questions, and to be totally honest, I would rather break camp with De La Rosa then throw FA money at reclamation projects. None of these projects over the past few seasons have amounted to very much.

If you're going to go the route of building with youth, I see Haren or Peavy as better short term options, if they would bite on one year deals.

I see no sense in bringing in reclamation projects, with an eye on youth, and then forcing them up too soon if the projects tank early on.........

taffi101
10-29-2012, 08:15 PM
I would rather give 3 years to Haren or Peavy than Jackson, even with injury concerns. I dont trust Jackson in our division at all. And even if injuries are a problem for someone we sign, at least we'll finally have decent young arms starting to be ready other than Kyle Weiland (De La Rosa this year, Webster and maybe Barnes & Workman the next).

Jackson was young and raw when he pitched in TB, and was probably brought to the majors too young.

Over the past three seasons he has pitched better, lowered his walk rate, which was a big problem for him. He is still giving up some hits, but his velocity hasn't dropped much ( 93.4MPH-2012...down about 1MPH since 08') and he does have some swing and miss stuff for the most part.

He obviously isn't a slamdunk by no means, but he is young, and can throw innings. He does have to fit the dynamic of the team going forward, and be sensible cost wise. This may be the year he gets his 3 year deal.....

mzg32
10-29-2012, 08:50 PM
John Danks is signed thru 2016 at $13M AAV, unless his contract status has changed at some point. He would have to be traded for.

Soory guys, I meant Gavin Floyd... Got confused

taffi101
10-29-2012, 08:57 PM
Soory guys, I meant Gavin Floyd... Got confused

No problem bud, it happens to me alot.... :)

I could see the sense in Floyd. He was predicted to sign with Boston by some outlet that predicts the FA signings.....

BostonSports96
10-30-2012, 03:08 PM
http://www.fenwaynation.com/2012/10/is-dan-haren-coming-to-boston-in-quick.html

Wouldn't mind this...but what would the price be?

RaginRondo17
10-30-2012, 06:12 PM
White Sox and Peavy agreed to a 2/29 Deal.

MLBTradeRumors (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/white-sox-extend-jake-peavy.html)

SirHizz
10-30-2012, 06:40 PM
This is not an awful deal for the WSox and would have been even better for us. 2 years with a high-salary, that's exactly the kind of deals we should be handing out. But I didn't think Peavy would come to Boston to begin with.

But on thing is clear, this contract is probably setting the market for some other players as well.

Nomar
10-30-2012, 06:55 PM
14.5 wasnt more than expected. most said 3yr/42M here

EwanSellars
10-30-2012, 08:53 PM
remember when the red sox almost pulled off the dan haren for lars anderson deal? That would have been such a great trade for us

Nomar
10-30-2012, 11:28 PM
Lars4life

AI
10-30-2012, 11:34 PM
remember when the red sox almost pulled off the dan haren for lars anderson deal? That would have been such a great trade for us

Bowden for Miguel Montero :sigh:

Station 13
10-31-2012, 12:27 AM
remember when the red sox almost pulled off the dan haren for lars anderson deal? That would have been such a great trade for us

I don't ever recall that.

EwanSellars
10-31-2012, 07:08 AM
I don't ever recall that.

It was right at the deadline last year and they had people pretty much confirm it happened then it fell through at the last minute

AI
10-31-2012, 08:19 AM
It was right at the deadline last year and they had people pretty much confirm it happened then it fell through at the last minute

Ehh no, the deal you are talking about was with the A's for Rich Harden.

wolf82
10-31-2012, 08:56 AM
I still think Haren, and E. Jackson are the way to go.

Jackson is still able to produce 200+ innings, and Haren I bet is willing to take a 1 or 2 year deal to rebuild his value.

RedSoxtober
10-31-2012, 09:07 AM
Shields and Peavy have options picked up.

Angels are looking to trade Haren and Santana to see if there's any way to salvage value before their options need to be declined. Picking up Haren in this way -- expected to be cheap considering their option status -- might make sense for the Sox; expensive but very short deal with high upside, possibility to re-sign if he performs and/or getting a pick in a year if he moves on. Also provides a year for younger arms to develop.

AI
10-31-2012, 09:13 AM
Shields and Peavy have options picked up.

Angels are looking to trade Haren and Santana to see if there's any way to salvage value before their options need to be declined. Picking up Haren in this way -- expected to be cheap considering their option status -- might make sense for the Sox; expensive but very short deal with high upside, possibility to re-sign if he performs and/or getting a pick in a year if he moves on. Also provides a year for younger arms to develop.

Yes, yes, yes and yes. Been saying this for weeks, do it Ben.

ricomactaco
10-31-2012, 09:44 AM
Yes, yes, yes and yes. Been saying this for weeks, do it Ben.

Agreed but it will depend on what LA will want for him. IMO with his current contract he's not worth much more than a B prospect at most.

Nomar
10-31-2012, 09:57 AM
Agreed but it will depend on what LA will want for him. IMO with his current contract he's not worth much more than a B prospect at most.

I dont think you understand. This is the last day the Angels have to deal. They hold no leverage. No way do they get a B prospect. A pen arm or AAAA player is what they can realistically get.

Majesty17
10-31-2012, 10:06 AM
I dont think you understand. This is the last day the Angels have to deal. They hold no leverage. No way do they get a B prospect. A pen arm or AAAA player is what they can realistically get.

Whats the deadline?

I hope BC pulls the trigger i'd like to see them get the ball rolling now with a trade to see what direction they're taking for the upcoming season.

AI
10-31-2012, 10:06 AM
I dont think you understand. This is the last day the Angels have to deal. They hold no leverage. No way do they get a B prospect. A pen arm or AAAA player is what they can realistically get.

This. In most of my simulations I've proposed we deal Aceves for Haren.

Majesty17
10-31-2012, 10:16 AM
Nevermind. The deadline to pick up his option is 9pm tonight. we'll know by tonight if the sox or any other club makes the move.

AI
10-31-2012, 10:32 AM
Nevermind. The deadline to pick up his option is 9pm tonight. we'll know by tonight if the sox or any other club makes the move.

I'll be refreshing MLBTR all day, I seriously want us to get him.

Majesty17
10-31-2012, 10:36 AM
I'll be refreshing MLBTR all day, I seriously want us to get him.

This x2

I'm in my office till 5pm today with PSD and MLBTR open all day set on 5 minute refresh intervals. haha

MoVaughnsLunch
10-31-2012, 11:02 AM
What could we expect from Haren is we were to pick him up?

Celtic AL
10-31-2012, 11:34 AM
this is a no brainer for ben. i rather trade for Haren Or Santana then spending big $$$ on a pitcher like McCarthy or Jackson. Like AI always says DO IT BEN!

AI
10-31-2012, 11:36 AM
The Angels are aggressively trying to trade starters Dan Haren and Ervin Santana, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports. It’ll be an upset if they don’t complete at least one deal, and one MLB executive expects both right-handers to be moved. The Angels have been weighing possible trades for at least two days now.

The contracts of Haren ($15.5MM option) and Santana ($13MM option) both include options that could appeal to other teams, even though they aren’t particularly appealing to the Angels. The Angels will decline Santana’s option and there’s every indication they’d decline Haren’s, Rosenthal reports.

Angels GM Jerry Dipoto isn’t the only one discussing possible deals. A number of teams are already engaged in serious trade talks for starting pitchers, according to Rosenthal. Some of the names in play are more appealing than Haren and Santana.

This is a no-brainer, give them Aceves and take Haren.

Nomar
10-31-2012, 11:38 AM
****, give them dome and get Haren BC.

Majesty17
10-31-2012, 11:59 AM
Angels GM Jerry Dipoto isnít the only one discussing possible deals. A number of teams are already engaged in serious trade talks for starting pitchers, according to Rosenthal. Some of the names in play are more appealing than Haren and Santana.

:drool: Tim Lincecum

SirHizz
10-31-2012, 12:43 PM
Angels GM Jerry Dipoto isnít the only one discussing possible deals. A number of teams are already engaged in serious trade talks for starting pitchers, according to Rosenthal. Some of the names in play are more appealing than Haren and Santana.

:drool: Tim Lincecum

There is no chance we are not in the middle of these talks, right? Let's see what happens. Off-season is getting interesting early :)

mzg32
10-31-2012, 01:09 PM
IIRC the deadline for Haren deal is until friday; hope Ben brings this guy!!!

I do not think we should trade for Santana, I think we could get him for less money as a FA.

Also, Dallas Braden became a FA after rejecting assignment to AAA. Could be an interesting option... What do you guys think about him? Would you mind having 3 LHP in the rotation???

I think we could get him cheap, and let him battle for the 4 o 5 spot. He hates Arod, so I like him!!!!!

Majesty17
10-31-2012, 01:23 PM
IIRC the deadline for Haren deal is until friday; hope Ben brings this guy!!!

I do not think we should trade for Santana, I think we could get him for less money as a FA.

Also, Dallas Braden became a FA after rejecting assignment to AAA. Could be an interesting option... What do you guys think about him? Would you mind having 3 LHP in the rotation???

I think we could get him cheap, and let him battle for the 4 o 5 spot. He hates Arod, so I like him!!!!!

^^ My bad i skimmed on mlb.com saw the 9pm for wednesday figured it was for both Santana and Haren :shrug:

Bo Sox Fan
10-31-2012, 01:46 PM
IIRC the deadline for Haren deal is until friday; hope Ben brings this guy!!!

I do not think we should trade for Santana, I think we could get him for less money as a FA.

Also, Dallas Braden became a FA after rejecting assignment to AAA. Could be an interesting option... What do you guys think about him? Would you mind having 3 LHP in the rotation???

I think we could get him cheap, and let him battle for the 4 o 5 spot. He hates Arod, so I like him!!!!!

This should be a no brainer for Red Sox management. I know he's coming off surgery and missed an entire year, but the kid has a high seiling. I would consider him a low cost, ultra high reward compared to the scrubs we've signed in the immidiate past. So YES!

The main need is still an ace atop the rotation, and if Lincicum is indeed available this should be top priority. Regardless of a down year, he's still only 28 and was lights out in these past playoffs, where it counts. He's also on the final year of his contract at $22 mil, which is now chump change to Sox management. I have repeated flipping Ellsbury and maybe a spec for him since Pagan is a free agent. If Lincicum bounces back, we've found our ace and if not? There really we're no other options but we tried.

At the end of the offseason, one of the worst rotations in the AL could take a 360 giving us a chance to win on a daily basis with even just an average offence.

Lincicum
Lester
Buchholz
Braden (and/or Sign a Haren)
Doubront

Lackey sits in the pen until the first injury occurs, and it would inevitably be Buchholz to the 15 day DL with back issues. But atleast we got it covered.

quinnjack
10-31-2012, 01:59 PM
This should be a no brainer for Red Sox management. I know he's coming off surgery and missed an entire year, but the kid has a high seiling. I would consider him a low cost, ultra high reward compared to the scrubs we've signed in the immidiate past. So YES!

The main need is still an ace atop the rotation, and if Lincicum is indeed available this should be top priority. Regardless of a down year, he's still only 28 and was lights out in these past playoffs, where it counts. He's also on the final year of his contract at $22 mil, which is now chump change to Sox management. I have repeated flipping Ellsbury and maybe a spec for him since Pagan is a free agent. If Lincicum bounces back, we've found our ace and if not? There really we're no other options but we tried.

At the end of the offseason, one of the worst rotations in the AL could take a 360 giving us a chance to win on a daily basis with even just an average offence.

Lincicum
Lester
Buchholz
Braden (and/or Sign a Haren)
Doubront

Lackey sits in the pen until the first injury occurs, and it would inevitably be Buchholz to the 15 day DL with back issues. But atleast we got it covered.

Personally I'd want Lincecum and a prospect for Ellsbury, not the other way around.

Nomar
10-31-2012, 02:13 PM
If its Ellsbury for Lincecum and were taking his contract id want Belt.

Majesty17
10-31-2012, 02:19 PM
Personally I'd want Lincecum and a prospect for Ellsbury, not the other way around.

I'd like a million bucks too but thats just not how the world works haha. If we look into getting lincecum, if they're even willing to part with him (which there is a slight possibility) it would be ellsbury and a spec. Maybe straight up but in no case do i see us getting Lincecum and a spec for Ellsbury.

ricomactaco
10-31-2012, 02:44 PM
Peavy is off the list. He just signed with the W Sox for 2 years

ricomactaco
10-31-2012, 02:50 PM
Didnt understand the deadline to trade Haren. The next couple days will be interesting

mzg32
10-31-2012, 03:20 PM
Didnt understand the deadline to trade Haren. The next couple days will be interesting

The Deadline is for the Angels to decide on their club option. If they decline it they'd have to pay him a $3.5M buyout

Majesty17
10-31-2012, 05:06 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/royals-acquire-ervin-santana.html

Ervin Santana first chip to fall. Dan Haren's next to go.

Soxfan85
10-31-2012, 05:43 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/royals-acquire-ervin-santana.html

Ervin Santana first chip to fall. Dan Haren's next to go.

Wish we got Santana oh well Dan Hanern I dont wanna another Lackey type

bruins>habs
10-31-2012, 09:02 PM
I saw some Dallas Braden post earlier, i read he was released but never brought it up here...i would be all for that, we love those reclamation projects (Smoltz, Penny, etc.) and they all failed...this kid however has some talent, he's 29, and i was looking at stats over the past 4 years and he's been pretty impressive....other than his win-loss record (played for Oakland who wasn't good during those years) he had a nice ERA in those years too

full stats:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bradeda01.shtml

If their is a guy to sign as a rec. project its definitely him, he would have more upside than any other guy they've tried imo

BTW, does FA start tomorrow ?

AI
11-01-2012, 10:19 AM
Nick Cafardo
‏@nickcafardo
Red Sox one of several teams in on Dan Haren.

:pray:

Majesty17
11-01-2012, 11:30 AM
10:15am: Dipoto could try to send Vernon Wells to the Red Sox along with Haren, Mike DiGiovanna of the LA Times suggests (Twitter link). Perhaps the Angels would obtain John Lackey in an exchange of bad contracts.

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports that Wells is in play for others (Twitter links). The Angels are actively trying to trade Wells, who has a full no-trade clause and $42MM remaining on his contract through 2014.

BostonSports96
11-01-2012, 03:40 PM
10:15am: Dipoto could try to send Vernon Wells to the Red Sox along with Haren, Mike DiGiovanna of the LA Times suggests (Twitter link). Perhaps the Angels would obtain John Lackey in an exchange of bad contracts.

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports that Wells is in play for others (Twitter links). The Angels are actively trying to trade Wells, who has a full no-trade clause and $42MM remaining on his contract through 2014.

11:14am: The Red Sox have no interest in acquiring Wells, Brian MacPherson of the Providence Journal reports.

^Thank God.

RaginRondo17
11-01-2012, 11:04 PM
Yeah, I think Haren but not enough to take on Wells contract, deals like that are the ones that got us into trouble. Dingle a reliever (Aceves (AI mentioned before) Ryan Sweeney (I think some people are forgetting about him) Glad to hear the Red Sox aren't interested in picking up Wells.

Zito4Prez
11-02-2012, 08:12 PM
I could definitely see Boston going after Greinke

penuch
11-02-2012, 08:14 PM
I could definitely see Boston going after Greinke

I hope not he, he is to fragile to handle Boston. I mean there have been players who don't have anxiety issues and they couldn't cut it. There is no denying he has the stuff to be a great pitcher, unfortunately he just doesn't have the mental makeup.

Soxfan85
11-02-2012, 08:33 PM
Go after Sanchez. BC is familiar with him.

I like this rotation

Lester
Buchholz
Doubrant
Sanchez
Lackey

celticsman2009
11-02-2012, 08:42 PM
Does anyone think Ruby De La Rosa will be in the starting rotation this year. He was pitching in the Dodgers rotation before he got hurt.

bruins>habs
11-02-2012, 08:46 PM
Does anyone think Ruby De La Rosa will be in the starting rotation this year. He was pitching in the Dodgers rotation before he got hurt.

i hope he is but i mean if they add another arm there really isn't room right now

AuSox
11-02-2012, 10:17 PM
Does anyone think Ruby De La Rosa will be in the starting rotation this year. He was pitching in the Dodgers rotation before he got hurt.

He will at some point, but I think they would prefer to start him in AAA to get a good look at him and make sure he is ready. I would prefer to slot a veteran SP in the rotation at the start of the year with Ruby in AAA simply because of the injury nature of a rotation throughout a year and the depth needed for a full season. Better to have too many than not enough.

BostonSports96
11-03-2012, 04:52 PM
Does anyone think Ruby De La Rosa will be in the starting rotation this year. He was pitching in the Dodgers rotation before he got hurt.

I'd like him to overtake Lackey at some point next season. Whether he breaks spring training with the roster or not will all depend on his ST performance.

taffi101
11-03-2012, 05:56 PM
I'd like him to overtake Lackey at some point next season. Whether he breaks spring training with the roster or not will all depend on his ST performance.

Lackey I bet throws better than a lot expect. He didn't pitch all that bad in 2010, almost earning his obvious over-payment. ( $16.5M as per FG- $18.7M actual salary)

2011 was a definite struggle for him. Be it personal, physical or whatever the reason, everything went wrong for him.

If right this year, he should be close to 200+ innings....if he can perform at a 2010 level, I could live with that....better than any number 4 they paraded out there last season.....