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View Full Version : Is a team with 3 top 5 positional players supposed to win?



beasted86
10-19-2012, 10:10 PM
When the HEAT came together in 2010 they were basically "expected to win". The conventional logic on PSD is any team with 3 players who are at least top 5 in their position should win, and they suck if they couldn't win.

But.... at the same time I hear Knicks fans say Carmelo is a top 2 or 3 SF. Amare is a top 3 PF, Chandler is a top 3 Center. Bulls fans said in the past Rose is the best PG, Deng is a top 5 SF, and Noah is a top 5 Center. Nets fans say D-Will is a top 3 PG, JJ a top 3 SG, and Lopez a top 5 Center. Current Laker fans say Kobe is the best SG, Dwight the best Center, and Pau is a top 5 PF.. you can also apply past logic to Kobe, Pau, Bynum as a top 2 Center.

So will/has this same logic apply/applied to these teams if/when they lose/lost?

Gram
10-19-2012, 10:11 PM
In before the lock.

beasted86
10-19-2012, 10:13 PM
In before the lock.

Why would this thread be locked?

Gram
10-19-2012, 10:14 PM
Because it'll piss off fans of all the teams you listed.

Bravo95
10-19-2012, 10:17 PM
Yes, and the same logic should apply.

Whether all those player rankings are/were anywhere near accurate is another story though.

Bravo95
10-19-2012, 10:18 PM
Because it'll piss off fans of all the teams you listed.
Possible.

beasted86
10-19-2012, 10:21 PM
Yes, and the same logic should apply.

Whether all those player rankings are/were anywhere near accurate is another story though.

But the team still has to play defense, even if you have 3 great players. You can have 3 great scorers but if the team as a whole can't defend you won't make it far in the playoffs. I'm not sure Run TMC were top 5 of their positions at the time, but a correlation to my logic applies. That team didn't go far.

b@llhog24
10-19-2012, 10:40 PM
Except Amare isn't a top 3 PF anymore, and Carmelo and Chandler aren't the clear cut top 3 players at their position. Besides the talent differential between Miami's big 3 and the Knicks big 3 is pretty large.

Knicks21
10-19-2012, 11:01 PM
Find one fan who says Amare is a top 3 PF.

Avenged
10-19-2012, 11:03 PM
Fan bases thinking their players are top 5 at their position doesn't necessarily make it so.

beasted86
10-19-2012, 11:09 PM
Find one fan who says Amare is a top 3 PF.

This topic isn't to bait Knicks fans or fans of any fan base, but seriously, all it takes is a forum search for threads where people are talking about player rankings for each position from either last season or the season before and you can see where fans thought their players ranked for any respective team. I only named a few above, but you can add OKC, San Antonio, and a couple other teams.

Really this thread isn't a bait thread its about what is backwards logic and what are realistic expectations... they get confused a lot on PSD.

JordansBulls
10-19-2012, 11:42 PM
When the HEAT came together in 2010 they were basically "expected to win". The conventional logic on PSD is any team with 3 players who are at least top 5 in their position should win, and they suck if they couldn't win.

But.... at the same time I hear Knicks fans say Carmelo is a top 2 or 3 SF. Amare is a top 3 PF, Chandler is a top 3 Center. Bulls fans said in the past Rose is the best PG, Deng is a top 5 SF, and Noah is a top 5 Center. Nets fans say D-Will is a top 3 PG, JJ a top 3 SG, and Lopez a top 5 Center. Current Laker fans say Kobe is the best SG, Dwight the best Center, and Pau is a top 5 PF.. you can also apply past logic to Kobe, Pau, Bynum as a top 2 Center.

So will/has this same logic apply/applied to these teams if/when they lose/lost?

No, the Heat had 3 allstars and the 3 guys finished 1, 2 and 4 in PER before joining forces. Each of them have been allstars on the Heat both years as well and one was already a proven winner taking an organization that never won before to a title.

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-19-2012, 11:43 PM
Is this a thread to justify LeBron's chokiness in the 2011 NBA Finals?

meloman1592
10-20-2012, 12:08 AM
Amare is not top anything....

bholly
10-20-2012, 12:10 AM
Nope. Of course they're likely to be contenders, but basketball is way too complicated for a team's overall strength to be defined by something as simple/stupid as positional rankings, and the league is too competitive for anyone to be 'supposed' to win.

For example, this year there are two teams in the league with 3 top 5 positional players according to ESPN's NBARank:
OKC - Durant (#1 SF), Westbrook (#3 PG), Harden (#4 SF)
LAL - Dwight (#1 C), Kobe (#1 SG), Pau (#4 PF)

And yet as far as I know a third team, Miami, are favourites over both of them.
Even if you try to squeeze Miami into that group by including #6 PF Bosh (in which case you probably also need to include #7 PG Nash, who was just one place behind Bosh overall), it can't be that all three are supposed to win.

Basing predictions or expectations on positional rankings just ignores a huge amount (fit, chemistry, relative importance of positions, differences in the spread of talent between positions, coaching, not to mention the rest of the roster), and is pretty dumb.

Leave narratives like 'team x are supposed to win' and other garbage to Stephen A and the other hacks.

seikou8
10-20-2012, 12:16 AM
No, the Heat had 3 allstars and the 3 guys finished 1, 2 and 4 in PER before joining forces. Each of them have been allstars on the Heat both years as well and one was already a proven winner taking an organization that never won before to a title.

stop it please :facepalm:

bholly
10-20-2012, 12:24 AM
What's wrong with what JB said?

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-20-2012, 12:24 AM
what's wrong with what jb said?

hca

Chill_Will_24
10-20-2012, 12:26 AM
Only in the minds of 3 particular Nets fans on here is Brook Lopez even close to the top 5 C rank

waveycrockett
10-20-2012, 12:47 AM
lol lets act like lebron isnt the common denominator here