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View Full Version : If you substituted a prime Bird over Pippen on Joran Bulls...



rocketfuel
10-15-2012, 03:06 AM
would the Bulls be as dominant? Obviously, Bird is a hall of fame 1st option...but just curious in terms of skillset if substituting Bird in for Pippen would be better than the Jordan/Pippen duo. Just watching the 92 Olympic team, I wondered which combos of superstars worked the best together. Pippens defense and passing vs. Bird's shooting and scoring in terms of fitting in with Jordan's Bulls.

Ebbs
10-15-2012, 03:18 AM
Yea I think so.

naps
10-15-2012, 03:28 AM
Probably not as successful as they were. I mean Jordan was good enough to carry the offensive load while Pippen anchored their defense. Now with both Jordan and Bird together their offense would have been better but I am not so sure they hold their own on the defensive end.

rocketfuel
10-15-2012, 03:34 AM
Yeah, that's what I was debating. That overall defense of Jordan and Pippen was just tremendous. I wonder how much they give up if Bird paired with Jordan instead. But, Bird's shooting and scoring paired with Jordan would be a marvel too. It's like two kings of their position taking turns on their opponents. Plus, Jordan could pass to a Bird who's deadly from the 3.

Hellcrooner
10-15-2012, 04:11 AM
Jordan would have butted heads with Bird.
None of them would accept being "second fiddle".

Zefflin
10-15-2012, 04:19 AM
Are you ****ing serious? Jordan AND Bird??!

Steelers23_06
10-15-2012, 04:23 AM
Jordan would have butted heads with Bird.
None of them would accept being "second fiddle".

I disagree 100% I feel they would be a great team. A two headed dragon. You guys are making it seem like Larry would just roll over on defense. In his prime he was a hustle player that have it his all ever play. I believe Jordan would win a couple dpoy trophies because he would be given the task of locking down the best player night in and night out. I also think that would wear on him resulting in Larry leading the team in scoring a couple times but not by much at all. It's ridiculously hard to outdue what that bulls team did but I feel with prime bird they match it.

Hellcrooner
10-15-2012, 01:07 PM
I disagree 100% I feel they would be a great team. A two headed dragon. You guys are making it seem like Larry would just roll over on defense. In his prime he was a hustle player that have it his all ever play. I believe Jordan would win a couple dpoy trophies because he would be given the task of locking down the best player night in and night out. I also think that would wear on him resulting in Larry leading the team in scoring a couple times but not by much at all. It's ridiculously hard to outdue what that bulls team did but I feel with prime bird they match it.

Young Larry was recruited to Play for Indiana , , he went there, found out it was Kent Bensons team and decided that he was to good to play second fiddle to anyone, so he bolted and played for Inidana ST.

HE WOULD HAVE NOT WORKED with JORDAN.

Jordan ( and kobe) have so overdone the Douchebag act that people forget that Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Magic ( not in front of camera tough) were also highly competitive douchebags themselves.

nickdymez
10-15-2012, 01:10 PM
Jordan would have butted heads with Bird.
None of them would accept being "second fiddle".

This

ManningToTyree
10-15-2012, 01:16 PM
Somehow it would have worked. Both were too great to fail.

Sly Guy
10-15-2012, 01:22 PM
good team, but I'd still prefer the balance of both offensive and defensive capabilities of jordan and pip...

Besides, pip's athleticism is a better match to keep up with jordan's game.

Dankster
10-15-2012, 01:27 PM
Probably not as successful as they were. I mean Jordan was good enough to carry the offensive load while Pippen anchored their defense. Now with both Jordan and Bird together their offense would have been better but I am not so sure they hold their own on the defensive end.

Umm, you should watch Bird play sometime. He was a pretty good defender to say the least. And also his passing abilities were as good, if not better, than Pippen.

I know people hate to play the hypothetical game on PSD because there are way too many variables to factor in, but if you're just talking about a straight up swap for Pippen and Bird, than it's seemingly a no brainer. People rave about Pippen's all around game, but Bird was a great all around player in his own right. Combine that with the fact he might be one of the 5 greatest offensive players in the history of the game, and it's a no brainer for me.

Especially early in their careers when Michael was more of a slasher and still working on his post game and perimeter skills, that would've been the deadliest combo in the league- Bird on the outside and Jordan doing his thing penetrating into the paint.

Would've rather seen Magic and Bird together FWIW.

Nomar
10-15-2012, 02:46 PM
Bird wasnt Nash. He defended well above average. Thats one incredible team Bird + MJ

ChicagoJ
10-15-2012, 02:54 PM
The bulls won those championships because of defense. Bird may not have been a bad defender, but he wasn't as good as Pippen was. Pip + Jordan was the better team IMO. They were just a better fit.

003
10-15-2012, 03:06 PM
Pippen's skillset perfectly complimented MJ's. I dont' feel the same way with Bird. Pippen being the better defender and ballhandler was needed more than Bird's scoring ability which MJ already had. So I'd say no. Would they have won a championship? Yeah probably. But during those last years when Jordan was aging and wouldn't have been capable of guarding the other team's top scorer Pippen's defense (along with Rodman's) helped stretch that Bulls team to win those 4th, 5th, and 6th trophies.

naps
10-15-2012, 03:13 PM
Umm, you should watch Bird play sometime. He was a pretty good defender to say the least. And also his passing abilities were as good, if not better, than Pippen.

I know people hate to play the hypothetical game on PSD because there are way too many variables to factor in, but if you're just talking about a straight up swap for Pippen and Bird, than it's seemingly a no brainer. People rave about Pippen's all around game, but Bird was a great all around player in his own right. Combine that with the fact he might be one of the 5 greatest offensive players in the history of the game, and it's a no brainer for me.

Especially early in their careers when Michael was more of a slasher and still working on his post game and perimeter skills, that would've been the deadliest combo in the league- Bird on the outside and Jordan doing his thing penetrating into the paint.

Would've rather seen Magic and Bird together FWIW.


May be you should first understand what team chemistry and how players fit with each other BOTH offensively and DEFENSIVELY. Where did I say Pippen was better than Bird? Ofcourse, I would take Bird over Pippen any day of the week. But that's not the case here. We already have Jordan who is more than capable of taking care of any kind of offensive load. All I am saying with Bird Bulls defense wouldn't be the same. Pippen was the defensive anchor of the Bulls and is the greatest perimeter defender the league has ever seen. Pippen's game was a much better fit to Jordan's on BOTH ends of the floor. Period.

xcrisisx
10-15-2012, 03:25 PM
bird is a celtic
stop the blasphemy!

conway429
10-15-2012, 03:27 PM
Young Larry was recruited to Play for Indiana , , he went there, found out it was Kent Bensons team and decided that he was to good to play second fiddle to anyone, so he bolted and played for Inidana ST.

HE WOULD HAVE NOT WORKED with JORDAN.

Jordan ( and kobe) have so overdone the Douchebag act that people forget that Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Magic ( not in front of camera tough) were also highly competitive douchebags themselves.

yeah...thats not true....

KnicksorBust
10-15-2012, 03:29 PM
More people think they would have been less successful with Bird...

resisting urge to facepalm... must keep facepalm-free streak alive...ahhhhhhhhh:cool:

whew that was tough.

Hellcrooner
10-15-2012, 04:21 PM
yeah...thats not true....

Lol is a well known fact, and you can find the story in several webs on the Internet.

abe_froman
10-15-2012, 04:28 PM
The bulls won those championships because of defense. Bird may not have been a bad defender, but he wasn't as good as Pippen was. Pip + Jordan was the better team IMO. They were just a better fit.

no,birds offense(especially adding the spacing with his shot),would have more than made up for the slight downgrade in defense(bird was a tough defender)

but yes.mj+bird would have dominated the league, 67 win average during their run....and bulls would have probably won in 94 in mj's absent year and been more of a threat in 95(if not actually win it to).you guys fail to realize just how good bird was

RaiderLakersA's
10-15-2012, 04:35 PM
Jordan would have butted heads with Bird.
None of them would accept being "second fiddle".

In this hypothetical scenario, which one was on the team first...or do they both get drafted at the same time? I guaranty you that if Bird was on the team first, Michael Jordan does not become the GOAT. And if Jordan was on the team first, Bird doesn't become Larry Legend. They would have clashed worse than Shaq and Kobe, albeit for different reasons.

knicks=love
10-15-2012, 04:57 PM
who's joran? :confused:

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-15-2012, 04:59 PM
Dude Joran Bulls didn't even need Pippen.

Good ol Joran

TheLegend
10-15-2012, 05:14 PM
The bulls won those championships because of defense. Bird may not have been a bad defender, but he wasn't as good as Pippen was. Pip + Jordan was the better team IMO. They were just a better fit.

Nailed it.

Quinnsanity
10-15-2012, 05:26 PM
No, Bird has injury issues and Pippen's defense was huge for the Bulls. Bird might have helped one or two of those title teams, but I doubt he's healthy for six.

surf and turf
10-15-2012, 05:26 PM
would the Bulls be as dominant? Obviously, Bird is a hall of fame 1st option...but just curious in terms of skillset if substituting Bird in for Pippen would be better than the Jordan/Pippen duo. Just watching the 92 Olympic team, I wondered which combos of superstars worked the best together. Pippens defense and passing vs. Bird's shooting and scoring in terms of fitting in with Jordan's Bulls.

So your asking what would happen if the greatest team player to ever lace em up switched spots with a guy who refused to take the court late in a game when he found out the possible game winning shot was going to Tony Kucoch, and was teamed up with the greatest all around player to ever lace em up?


Bird made it possible for average players to compete with All Time Greats. He was the most un selfish All Pro you would ever find anywhere. The ONLY thing Pippen had on him was defense. Bird was one of the greatest passers and shooters to ever live. Not many players can say that. I cant imagine them on the same team. Its overloading my brain..i keep seeing Bird throwing all opps to Jordan off the scoreboard or something crazy like that.

surf and turf
10-15-2012, 05:35 PM
Jordan would have even been a better player if he played with Bird. Theres no doubt about that and that probably answers your question. Jordan would have learned early on why he can score 63 points and still not beat Bird . Which did happen,,in the playoffs,,early in Jordans career....I coach D1 AAU Basketball. I ask my kids what you get if you put Larry Birds head on Vince Carters Body,,,the answer is MJ,,but if MJ played with Bird ,with both healthy,,you could get a multiple 75 or 76 win seasons and probably a run like the Old Celts,,,maybe better,,maybe 6 in a row 10 overall

surf and turf
10-15-2012, 05:44 PM
Funny thing is ,,,,sad really,,,this almost happened,,,SORT OF !!!!,Len Bias was the greatest College Basketball player I ever saw. Im not old enough to remember Lou Alcindor or Bill Walton but I will say this,,,and I mean it,,,My money says Bias dominates any college player to ever live. He was the Original "beast mode" He jumped so high he would block a much bigger guys shot and have to swat it on the way up...he would still be rising as the ball went off his hand. If he got the chance to play with Bird, no team,,,and I mean no team would have beaten that Celtic team in that era and theres a very good chance, that during the years that followed Birds forced retirement,,,that Bias would become the "MJ" . He was that good.

Utd7
10-15-2012, 05:48 PM
That would've been UNSTOPPABLE

Bos_Sports4Life
10-15-2012, 05:51 PM
Bid beats him on offense, passing, leadership, Rebounding ect..

MJ/Bird liked winning so much to where they would have made it work, also..2 diff types of scoring. Bird was the much better outside scorer and MJ was the much better slasher.

you are trading a top 50 player of all time for the best SF of all time..While the 2 pieces don't fit in as easily...the 2 pieces are simply much better.

psperry34116
10-15-2012, 06:04 PM
OK lets all think about how difficult the Heat are to beat down the stretch. Jordan is better than LeBron. Bird is better than Wade. Substitute Dennis Rodman/Horace Grant for Bosh and throw in Toni Kukoc. Terrifying to think about. Take the career averages of your 2, 3 and 4 over the course of their careers and they give you 30 rebounds per game. Jordan and Bird are probably two of the 5 most clutch players in the history of the game, Jordan being number 1. Larry Bird would have thrived playing with Jordan. It would have allowed him to play off-ball and shoot more open jumpers, would've demanded less of a physical role and therefore lengthened his career. Scottie Pippen was the one who refused to play the final seconds after being passed up for the game winner and you say Bird and Jordan wouldn't fit? Durant just said he would rather play with Bird than any guy in history, because Bird was a selfless teammate. Bird was a much better teammate than people give him credit for. Pippen was more athletic and better defensively, but Bird was no defensive slouch and those teams would also have 2 of the greatest defenders ever in Rodman and MJ. This should not even be a conversation.

rocketfuel
10-15-2012, 07:44 PM
In a discussion on another thread on the greatest defensive team that can be constructed: Payton, Jordan, Pippen, Garnett and Hakeem. I thought it would be a suffocating defense but wondered if it had enough outside shooting to space the floor.

Well, that Bulls defense with Jordan, Pippen and Rodman was pretty amazing and Pippen is an elite defender so between him, Jordan and Rodman they pretty much took the opponent out of their game.

Even though both Bird and Jordan are alpha dogs, I don't think they would have that much conflict on the offensive end. It's really how much of a drop on the defensive end of not having Pippen. Bird hustles, but Pippen was probably the best wing defender of his time at the small forward position. I also wonder how much is given up on spacing from Pippen's 3 point shot. They usually had a Kerr or Paxson to be the 3 point threat.

JordansBulls
10-15-2012, 07:47 PM
Hell yes the Bulls would have been even more dominant.

rocketfuel
10-15-2012, 07:50 PM
Well, that's the thing....can Bird contain Wade or Lebron? Who would take who if Jordan/Bird were guarding? I think guys are looking too much at the superstar franchise player that Bird is and not some of the pluses that Pippen brings. Pippen was an athletic freak and could keep up with Jordan. When they face a Wade/Lebron, you can have Pippen take Lebron and Jordan take on Wade. On the flip side, though, I think Bird and Jordan would bomb the hell out of opponents. Jordan had that one game where he hit 9 3 pointers...can't imagine if they had Bird join in on the raining 3's party with Kerr and Rodman in there to rebound.

JordansBulls
10-15-2012, 08:01 PM
Well, that's the thing....can Bird contain Wade or Lebron? Who would take who if Jordan/Bird were guarding? I think guys are looking too much at the superstar franchise player that Bird is and not some of the pluses that Pippen brings. Pippen was an athletic freak and could keep up with Jordan. When they face a Wade/Lebron, you can have Pippen take Lebron and Jordan take on Wade. On the flip side, though, I think Bird and Jordan would bomb the hell out of opponents. Jordan had that one game where he hit 9 3 pointers...can't imagine if they had Bird join in on the raining 3's party with Kerr and Rodman in there to rebound.

What da **** does Lebron and Wade have to do with Jordan's Bulls? Not to mention Dallas had no problem.