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View Full Version : Which Retired Superstar Who Never Won a Ring Had the Best Career?



KB-Pau-DH2012
10-12-2012, 02:17 PM
That's the question.

Karl Malone (Utah Jazz, Los Angeles Lakers)

John Stockton (Utah Jazz)

Patrick Ewing (New York Knicks, Seattle Supersonics, Orlando Magic)

Charles Barkley (Philadelphia 76ers, Phoenix Suns, Houston Rockets)

Reggie Miller (Indiana Pacers)

Elgin Baylor (Minneapolis Lakers, Los Angeles Lakers)


Of course, if there are any other ones out there, you can mention them.

Swashcuff
10-12-2012, 02:20 PM
Malone quite handily IMO

Phenomenonsense
10-12-2012, 02:31 PM
I think I like Stockton and Malone solely as a duo.

IndyRealist
10-12-2012, 02:35 PM
All of the above, really.

smellsam44
10-12-2012, 02:37 PM
Iverson should be up their too. Guy deserved one with how much effort he put on the court

lollybanger
10-12-2012, 02:40 PM
My vote is Stockton. Had the most impact on his team and did everything he could to get Utah there (nice having Malone to pass to though). That team without Stockton = not as good / nowhere near ring territory.

Hellcrooner
10-12-2012, 02:57 PM
The winner is Baylor

Artis Gilmore, Dominique Wilkins, Alex English, George gervin Are worth mentioning.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-12-2012, 03:03 PM
Chuck Chuck Chuck!

Swashcuff
10-12-2012, 03:08 PM
How is Malone not winning this in a landslide? He has twice as many MVPs as Chuck :p lol... twice as many 1st team appearances. You can argue that Barkley was the better player but this question is about who had the better career. Malone accomplished more than any other player on this list.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-12-2012, 03:13 PM
How is Malone not winning this in a landslide? He has twice as many MVPs as Chuck :p lol... twice as many 1st team appearances. You can argue that Barkley was the better player but this question is about who had the better career. Malone accomplished more than any other player on this list.

ahh, i see. i voted based on the better player.

Chavacano
10-12-2012, 03:13 PM
Karl Anthony Malone.

THE MTL
10-12-2012, 03:53 PM
Karl Malone and Patrick Ewing.

heyman321
10-12-2012, 03:56 PM
The answer should be John Stockton and or Karl Malone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDi0Ce_Z5w

b@llhog24
10-12-2012, 09:18 PM
Better career? Malone. Better Player? The Chuckwagon

justinnum1
10-12-2012, 09:23 PM
on that list, either stockton or malone

Sevilla91
10-12-2012, 09:29 PM
Malone

bagwell368
10-12-2012, 09:34 PM
Well Baylor should get a separate award for losing in the Finals 8 times (7 times vs the Celts).

Romo2Bryant
10-12-2012, 09:41 PM
Allen Iverson!

tapajafri
10-12-2012, 09:53 PM
Chris Webber deserves to be on the list. I'm not saying he had a better career than Malone, Stockton, or Barkley, but he deserves to be on the list at least. Webber was a superstar.



Oh wait...... Webber did win a ring in 2002. My mistake.

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-12-2012, 09:57 PM
Well Baylor should get a separate award for losing in the Finals 8 times (7 times vs the Celts).

Jerry West lucked out with that 72 title when Wilt was a Beast and Goodrich was ballin it that yr, or else, he would have been on this poll and probably would have been leading it as well.


As much as I love Jerry, the guy was teammates with Elgin when they went 0-7 against the Celtics along with going 1-2 against the Knicks. He went to the NBA Finals 10 times and won only once. 10% !! :speechless:

jericho
10-12-2012, 10:15 PM
i like stockton and miller and charles was good as well but cmon it has to be malone correct me if im wrong but isnt he second in all time points scored???

jericho
10-12-2012, 10:16 PM
Chris Webber deserves to be on the list. I'm not saying he had a better career than Malone, Stockton, or Barkley, but he deserves to be on the list at least. Webber was a superstar.



Oh wait...... Webber did win a ring in 2002. My mistake.

yeah he did the lakers stole it from him lol

PleaseBeNice
10-12-2012, 10:29 PM
Malone by a mile

MintBerryCrunch
10-12-2012, 10:34 PM
Malone wouldn't have those numbers w/o Stockton

JasonJohnHorn
10-12-2012, 10:36 PM
Tough question... i gotta say Stockton though... I mean, he retired with two untouchable records; all time steals and all time assists, plus he had 5 of the top ten highest assist per seasons, starting with the top two. And i love a guy who stays in one jersey his entire career.

Obviously evrery player on the list has a case, as well as some players who arent on the list... Gervin and Lanier come to mind as guys who weren't on the list. Malone and Barlkey both have MVP awards...

Still... I have a huge hard on for Stockton.... so that's my choice. He was a once in a life time player...

ztilzer31
10-12-2012, 11:00 PM
It's really not even close. Elgin Baylor. I guess he's not going to get credit because he's too old school, but 27.4 ppg and 13.5 RPG and no rings?

We all credit Michael Jordan for being the guy who made basketball what it is today, but Elgin Baylor was the Jordan of his era.

HE HAD A SEASON WITH 19 RPG AS A 6 FOOT 5 SMALL FORWARD. Everything I've read about this guy is just phenomenal, and he needs to be mentioned more often when we hear about basketball.

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-12-2012, 11:19 PM
It's really not even close. Elgin Baylor. I guess he's not going to get credit because he's too old school, but 27.4 ppg and 13.5 RPG and no rings?

We all credit Michael Jordan for being the guy who made basketball what it is today, but Elgin Baylor was the Jordan of his era.

HE HAD A SEASON WITH 19 RPG AS A 6 FOOT 5 SMALL FORWARD. Everything I've read about this guy is just phenomenal, and he needs to be mentioned more often when we hear about basketball.

The Legendary voice of the Lakers Chick Hearn had seen basically ever NBA player up close and personal all the way up to 2002.

He said the greatest player he ever saw was Elgin Baylor.

JordansBulls
10-13-2012, 12:24 AM
Karl Malone

KnickaBocka.44
10-13-2012, 12:48 AM
Stockton...best PG of all-time.








Yeah...I said it.

PurpleJesus
10-13-2012, 01:03 AM
Kow Moeloan.

jericho
10-13-2012, 01:42 AM
Stockton...best PG of all-time.







Yeah...I said it.


I'm with you on that even tho everybody else has magic

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-13-2012, 01:57 AM
I'm with you on that even tho everybody else has magic

Well, winning a title at that position should account for something, shouldn't it?


The greatest players at their positions have won titles.

SG-MJ (6)
SF-Bird (3)
PF-Duncan (4)
C-debateable b/w Kareem(6), Russell(11) and Wilt(2)


So in order to be known as the greatest PG, you have to win atleast 1 chip.

Magic (5) is the great PG of all time. Winning has to account for something.



However, I'll give you that Stockton was the better defender, shooter and better longevity.

j-bay
10-13-2012, 02:03 AM
"Just remember, the mailman doesn't deliver on Sundays, Karl,"

KnickaBocka.44
10-13-2012, 02:18 AM
Well, winning a title at that position should account for something, shouldn't it?


The greatest players at their positions have won titles.

SG-MJ (6)
SF-Bird (3)
PF-Duncan (4)
C-debateable b/w Kareem(6), Russell(11) and Wilt(2)


So in order to be known as the greatest PG, you have to win atleast 1 chip.

Magic (5) is the great PG of all time. Winning has to account for something.



However, I'll give you that Stockton was the better defender, shooter and better longevity.


He's also has 7 years with higher assist totals than Magic's best season, averaged a full turnover less over the course of his career and played with a vastly inferior supporting cast, which isn't even debatable.

Magic's frame made him an unguardable, and maybe better, all around player. But I believe Stockton is absolutely the better PG. I know I'm in the minority but I feel that a strong case can be made for him.

I also don't subcribe to the idea that you have to win a chip to be considered the best at your position because a championship is a team accomplishment.

Lakersfan2483
10-13-2012, 02:31 AM
Karl Malone- 2 Mvps, 3 finals appearances, 2 gold medals, top 2 all time in pts, 11 time all nba 1st team, 14 time all star,7th all time in total rebs, scored over 30,000 pts and grabbed over 14,000 rebs, 6th all time in offensive win shares, 5th all time in defensive win shares.........

Swashcuff
10-13-2012, 03:56 AM
Malone wouldn't have those numbers w/o Stockton

That's a two way street though.

Mr. NBA
10-13-2012, 04:42 AM
lebron james.....oh wait he won one with an ASTERISK right?

bigbeardaboss
10-13-2012, 07:26 AM
I believe that Malone was the "best player" but in terms of best career, after voting for Patrick Ewing(okay I am diehard Knicks fan), I realized that "best career" goes to Reggie Miller.

Of all of the players mentioned , his career stands out because:

-He lived for the big moment and always elevated his game and intensity when it mattered
-He had great rivalries
-He had the benefit of playing for one team his entire career
-Indiana adored him and coming from a NY fan, Indiana fans are amongst the best and most loyal fans in the NBA
-He played at a high level his entire career and retired on his own terms while he still could play the game
-I could probably make more points but it's 7:23AM EST Saturday morning and I can't figure out why I am even up?

I am going back to bed.

###That will be all### ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZ...

Swashcuff
10-13-2012, 07:36 AM
He's also has 7 years with higher assist totals than Magic's best season, averaged a full turnover less over the course of his career and played with a vastly inferior supporting cast, which isn't even debatable.

Magic's frame made him an unguardable, and maybe better, all around player. But I believe Stockton is absolutely the better PG. I know I'm in the minority but I feel that a strong case can be made for him.

I also don't subcribe to the idea that you have to win a chip to be considered the best at your position because a championship is a team accomplishment.

Start another thread and let's go. I think Stockton is overrated in many ways and Steve Nash, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson and Walt Frazier have solid arguments alongside him.

I 100% don't buy this whole he is a better PG but not a better player bid. There are different styles of PGs. I am of the first belief that you give Magic Stockton's team and they get better and when you flip the script Magic's team isn't as good. That's because why? Magic was as you said the better player and by extension the better PG. Not because Stockton was more of a pass first PG made him better as a PG it made him a better passer and a different kind of point guard.

Please let's not derail this thread any further. Start a thread with a solid OP and the smarter ones around here will listen to you. If you're as smart as I think you are I'm willing to be that there are a few guys around here that can sway your opinion.

Swashcuff
10-13-2012, 07:44 AM
I believe that Malone was the "best player" but in terms of best career, after voting for Patrick Ewing(okay I am diehard Knicks fan), I realized that "best career" goes to Reggie Miller.

Of all of the players mentioned , his career stands out because:

-He lived for the big moment and always elevated his game and intensity when it mattered

Malone and Ewing are two of the most notorious post season suckers (when i say sucker I mean a significant dip in their production as compared to regular season) of all time.


-He had great rivalries

So did Malone


-He had the benefit of playing for one team his entire career

By that notion one can then argue Kobe as having a better career than MJ? :confused: Either way its a horrendous point since any Knick fan would remember Pat lacing it up for the last time with the Magic after spending a season in Seattle.


-Indiana adored him and coming from a NY fan, Indiana fans are amongst the best and most loyal fans in the NBA

Okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy then :confused:


-He played at a high level his entire career and retired on his own terms while he still could play the game

Karl Malone's longevity is matched by very few and even at his advanced age at retirement he was just two seasons removed from being an All Star. I think you remember a different Patrick Ewing though. He finished his career as a bench player and in his last 4 seasons in the league as it should be he really couldn't match anything near his prime production.


-I could probably make more points but it's 7:23AM EST Saturday morning and I can't figure out why I am even up?

I am going back to bed.

###That will be all### ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZ...

Translation I am making a homer decision eventhough I can't find a reasonable argument in his favour. I do applaud you for at least trying to back up your selection but :down: :down: on your reasons.

KNICKS R BACK
10-13-2012, 07:56 AM
i would take karl malone over charles barkley ANY DAY of the week

Dade County
10-13-2012, 08:30 AM
hard choice to make

rpgmaster86
10-13-2012, 09:21 AM
BARKLEY had an amazing career!! My vote is him. But malone is def 1b. IMO

JasonJohnHorn
10-13-2012, 11:10 AM
Stockton...best PG of all-time.


Yeah...I said it.

You are correct sir! :clap:

JasonJohnHorn
10-13-2012, 11:11 AM
It's really not even close. Elgin Baylor. I guess he's not going to get credit because he's too old school, but 27.4 ppg and 13.5 RPG and no rings?

We all credit Michael Jordan for being the guy who made basketball what it is today, but Elgin Baylor was the Jordan of his era.

HE HAD A SEASON WITH 19 RPG AS A 6 FOOT 5 SMALL FORWARD. Everything I've read about this guy is just phenomenal, and he needs to be mentioned more often when we hear about basketball.

I agree... Baylor is grossly over looked by so many. He put up some crazy numbers...

3RDASYSTEM
10-13-2012, 11:20 AM
Barkley - TOP 3
baylor - TOP 3
malone
iverson - TOP 3
stockton
human highlight
drexler

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-13-2012, 12:59 PM
Barkley - TOP 3
baylor - TOP 3
malone
iverson - TOP 3
stockton
human highlight
drexler

95 Rockets. :pity:

Chronz
10-13-2012, 01:34 PM
Gimme the Chuckster

Chronz
10-13-2012, 01:42 PM
I agree... Baylor is grossly over looked by so many. He put up some crazy numbers...

For like half his career, the other half wasnt too good and towards the end he got pretty damn cancerous

3RDASYSTEM
10-13-2012, 02:14 PM
KBPAU back to back FINALS trips with PORTER as his sidekick?
regarded as 2nd best SG behind JORDAN for yrs not worthy?

nothing wrong with teaming up with a HOF player later to win a elusive ship,but i was thinkin of jus his tenure in POR and forgot about that little stint he had with DREAM, my bad

no diss but at least his POR fanbase isnt overrating him and placing him top 5 and other poppycock i hear about how yall do the backupguard turned starter, im taking off the allstar part from now on

Swashcuff
10-13-2012, 02:22 PM
KBPAU back to back FINALS trips with PORTER as his sidekick?
regarded as 2nd best SG behind JORDAN for yrs not worthy?

nothing wrong with teaming up with a HOF player later to win a elusive ship,but i was thinkin of jus his tenure in POR and forgot about that little stint he had with DREAM, my bad

no diss but at least his POR fanbase isnt overrating him and placing him top 5 and other poppycock i hear about how yall do the backupguard turned starter, im taking off the allstar part from now on

Why did you put A.I. on your list though? The guy isn't retired he's still breaking ankles (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=5vZUDvap8EM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D5vZUDvap8EM%26feature%3 Dyoutu.be) as we speak.

KB-Pau-DH2012
10-13-2012, 02:25 PM
KBPAU back to back FINALS trips with PORTER as his sidekick?
regarded as 2nd best SG behind JORDAN for yrs not worthy?

nothing wrong with teaming up with a HOF player later to win a elusive ship,but i was thinkin of jus his tenure in POR and forgot about that little stint he had with DREAM, my bad

no diss but at least his POR fanbase isnt overrating him and placing him top 5 and other poppycock i hear about how yall do the backupguard turned starter, im taking off the allstar part from now on

I'm talking about the fact that you put Drexler on that list when he's won a title already.

The ":pity:" was towards you!


And why are you trying to change topics.

Poppycock?? Really? :laugh2: :facepalm:

bigbeardaboss
10-13-2012, 03:58 PM
Malone and Ewing are two of the most notorious post season suckers (when i say sucker I mean a significant dip in their production as compared to regular season) of all time.



So did Malone



By that notion one can then argue Kobe as having a better career than MJ? :confused: Either way its a horrendous point since any Knick fan would remember Pat lacing it up for the last time with the Magic after spending a season in Seattle.



Okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy then :confused:



Karl Malone's longevity is matched by very few and even at his advanced age at retirement he was just two seasons removed from being an All Star. I think you remember a different Patrick Ewing though. He finished his career as a bench player and in his last 4 seasons in the league as it should be he really couldn't match anything near his prime production.



Translation I am making a homer decision eventhough I can't find a reasonable argument in his favour. I do applaud you for at least trying to back up your selection but :down: :down: on your reasons.

:clap::clap::clap:

Thank you Swashcuff for taking so much of your valuable time to make such an intelligent and reasonable critical analysis of my post.

You have made some very eloquent and for the most part, valid points!!

However there is just one problem.....you overlooked the fact that i said "BEST CAREER GOES TO REGGIE MILLER" :facepalm:

I hope that when I get to 11,000 plus posts that I will be as well read as you. :laugh2:

Please re-read my post and feel free to disect if you choose, but next time please do so in context...

And yes I am an admitted homer...but I am also an honest one.

As for you, it sounds like you may have a severe case of repressed aknickraphobia.

I am prescribing that you watch 50 Knick games this season...Doctors orders. :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

StarvingKnick22
10-13-2012, 04:16 PM
Karl Malone, then Stockton, then Ewing, then Chuck.

JordansBulls
10-13-2012, 08:43 PM
i would take karl malone over charles barkley ANY DAY of the week

Mainly because of how long his peak is and that he stayed with a franchise for most of his career while Barkley went from team to team.

TMcC801
10-13-2012, 08:51 PM
Stockton, Malone, Baylor

R. Johnson#3
10-13-2012, 08:55 PM
I vote for Karl. He missed what, 8 games in total before that year with the Lakers? The guy was also the poster boy for consistency.

SmartestGuyHere
10-13-2012, 09:07 PM
Karl I want to do Vanessa Bryant Malone

CavsYanksDuke
10-13-2012, 09:21 PM
For all those knocking Barkley with Malone's awards, you do realize Stockton was giving Malone a lot of points with his passing, whereas Barkley had no one his entire career.

DreamShaker
10-13-2012, 10:00 PM
I'm torn between Barkley and Malone. I agree that Barkley was better but Malone had the better career.

Swashcuff
10-13-2012, 10:08 PM
For all those knocking Barkley with Malone's awards, you do realize Stockton was giving Malone a lot of points with his passing, whereas Barkley had no one his entire career.

Not true. Barkley played with Cheeks and KJ when they were nearing the end of their respective primes but there were still MUCH better than saying he played with no one. Either way this isn't a question of who is better than whom its who has had the best career. Supporting casts really don't hold much water in that one.

JPS
10-13-2012, 10:11 PM
Not true. Barkley played with Cheeks and KJ when they were nearing the end of their respective primes but there were still MUCH better than saying he played with no one. Either way this isn't a question of who is better than whom its who has had the best career. Supporting casts really don't hold much water in that one.

I voted for Barkley. But this is correct. He also had Jonny Dawkins in Philly who was pretty good and Kenny Smith/Sam Cassell when he was in Houston at the end. So basically he never had a below average PG all were good to very good. None of them were Stockton though.

jerellh528
10-13-2012, 10:15 PM
I would go with stockton..its arguable that malones great career was largely in part due to stockton as well.