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SenorGato
10-11-2012, 12:23 AM
since the league offensive environment calmed down?

We're in the post-steroids era and it shows:

2012: .255/.319/.405/.724

2011: .255/.321/.399/.720

2010: .257/.325/.403/.728

2009: .262/.333/.418/.751

2008: .264/.333/.416/.749

2007: .268/.336/.423/.758

I think you get the point...Offense is down. What does this mean for you when projecting a player moving forward - prospect, FA, young player, old player, etc?

For me one thing I know for sure I've changed is the SB. While before it was a nice thing for a player to have, unless he was Carlos Beltran efficient I didn't care much for it. Now I'm fine with a bulk basestealer who can do it at maybe 75 or 76% rather than the 80% of the early part of the 2000's. It not only is a weapon on offense again, but the guys who can do it are usually the guys who move well on the field and age well.

Another one is wOBA. Generally it was > or = .330 is about average when the stat came out. In reality, IIRC, the league average has sat around .320 the past 3 years, if not slightly slower. Same for OBP - when Derek Jeter was posting a .370 OBP in his early 20's, he was doing it in a league that averaged a .350 OBP. Starlin Castro put up a .340 OBP in a year when the league was getting on base at a .320 clip. Given the context that .340 OBP is just as strong as that .370 OBP.

Just something I hope to get a better feel of. Reading around I strongly suspect that a huge amount of people have made zero adjustments.

Jeffy25
10-11-2012, 12:34 AM
wOBA has :)

and so has wRC+




all smiles here


What's funny, is that it isn't all just pitching. There has been a greater emphasis on defense.

Def Eff
2007 - .686
2012 - .691

.05% more balls being put in play have turned into outs since 5 years ago

******2017
10-11-2012, 12:37 AM
Actually that's 0.5% more balls in play turning to outs

******2017
10-11-2012, 12:37 AM
Actually that's 0.5% more balls in play turning to outs

SenorGato
10-11-2012, 12:59 AM
wOBA has

and so has wRC+


Yes, but has anyone bothered to keep up with those numbers? The same bench marks aren't there. 20 teams put up a wOBA over .320 in 2002. 13 did it in 2011. 10 teams did it this year.

lol, please
10-11-2012, 02:02 AM
since the league offensive environment calmed down?

We're in the post-steroids era and it shows:

2012: .255/.319/.405/.724

2011: .255/.321/.399/.720

2010: .257/.325/.403/.728

2009: .262/.333/.418/.751

2008: .264/.333/.416/.749

2007: .268/.336/.423/.758

I think you get the point...Offense is down. What does this mean for you when projecting a player moving forward - prospect, FA, young player, old player, etc?

For me one thing I know for sure I've changed is the SB. While before it was a nice thing for a player to have, unless he was Carlos Beltran efficient I didn't care much for it. Now I'm fine with a bulk basestealer who can do it at maybe 75 or 76% rather than the 80% of the early part of the 2000's. It not only is a weapon on offense again, but the guys who can do it are usually the guys who move well on the field and age well.

Another one is wOBA. Generally it was > or = .330 is about average when the stat came out. In reality, IIRC, the league average has sat around .320 the past 3 years, if not slightly slower. Same for OBP - when Derek Jeter was posting a .370 OBP in his early 20's, he was doing it in a league that averaged a .350 OBP. Starlin Castro put up a .340 OBP in a year when the league was getting on base at a .320 clip. Given the context that .340 OBP is just as strong as that .370 OBP.

Just something I hope to get a better feel of. Reading around I strongly suspect that a huge amount of people have made zero adjustments.

We aren't in the post anything. Steroids are common throughout sports and continues to be a problem, people get caught all the time, and people get away with it every day. It's very much a "cheat to compete" atmosphere if you listen to many athletes on the subject.

SenorGato
10-11-2012, 02:14 AM
Whatever you want to label it as - I don't care about the steroids era at all and just parroted a label - players are not putting up the batting lines and power numbers that had been popping up in the past say...15-20 years.

******2017
10-11-2012, 02:23 AM
We aren't in the post anything. Steroids are common throughout sports and continues to be a problem, people get caught all the time, and people get away with it every day. It's very much a "cheat to compete" atmosphere if you listen to many athletes on the subject.
The steroids of the 90s are completely different than the PED's guys are getting caught using now. PED's are more body rejuvenation/healing than giving you more and more strength that steroids would do.

Jeffy25
10-11-2012, 02:49 AM
Yes, but has anyone bothered to keep up with those numbers? The same bench marks aren't there. 20 teams put up a wOBA over .320 in 2002. 13 did it in 2011. 10 teams did it this year.

Yeah, it's still adjusted to the league average OBP.

The league average wOBA is the same as league average OBP