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View Full Version : Do you prefer a scorer who can't play defense or a defender who can't score?



FOBolous
10-10-2012, 12:52 AM
Let's say you have to built a team around a well-balance all-around talented superstar player and you have to choose either a scorer who can't play defense or defender who can't score to pair him with....which player would you choose and why?

Examples of good scorers: Kevin Martin, Monta Ellis, David Lee, Brandon Jennings, JR Smith, Blake Griffin, Jamal Crawford, Brook Lopez, Nick Young

Examples of good defenders: Shane Battier, Serge Ibaka, Tyson Chandler, Dikembe Mutombo, Ben Wallace, Tony Allen, Iman Shumpert

KnickaBocka.44
10-10-2012, 12:57 AM
Depends on who else is on the team.

IndyRealist
10-10-2012, 01:05 AM
Defender who can't score. Because everybody wants to be a scorer. Guys who shoot the ball are a dime a dozen.

b@llhog24
10-10-2012, 01:07 AM
I love this thread, been meaning to make one like this for a while. It's option A quite handily, without accounting for unknown variables like roster support I'd take the offensive player over the defensive player. It's essentially asking if you would take Kmart (010-011 version he sucked balls last year) over Tony Allen.

Quinnsanity
10-10-2012, 01:14 AM
I find it funny that a scorer who can't play defense gets destroyed by fans and the media yet a defender who can't score always gets way more credit than they deserve.

Vampirate
10-10-2012, 01:15 AM
I'll take the defender as long as he can pass, defence leads to easier offence like turnovers.

JLynn943
10-10-2012, 01:17 AM
It depends on how great of a scorer the defender thinks he is. :laugh2:

Either way, I think most will choose the defender who can't score, but in reality both are as useful as one another on an individual level. The decision comes down to the cast around them regarding who is more useful. If you have an offensively-challenged but defensively solid team, it is far more valuable to get the scorer and attempt to hide their defensive shortcomings. On the other hand, if you have a great scoring team that lacks defense, the offensively-challenged player's defense is needed and their offensive shortcomings can be overcome.

Nick O
10-10-2012, 01:17 AM
Mutumbo <3 .... defender

asandhu23
10-10-2012, 01:17 AM
Scorer. you can teach D but you can't teach offensive touch.

seikou8
10-10-2012, 01:26 AM
melo vs tony allen melo wins

Teufelshunde4
10-10-2012, 02:00 AM
Since a scorer's shot will have off nights.. And defense is more effort and desire.
I would choose Defense...

The old cliche still holds true... Defense wins championships...

Vampirate
10-10-2012, 02:10 AM
Since a scorer's shot will have off nights.. And defense is more effort and desire.
I would choose Defense...

The old cliche still holds true... Defense wins championships...

This isn't really true.

You can't win a championship with bad defence or offence.

Execution wins championships. If you can't execute plays, offense or defence, you won't win the game.

P Harvy
10-10-2012, 02:12 AM
Didn't vote because this was a hard question for me. I think it all really depends. I mean ideally you would want to have one of each on the same team.

Bulls_fan90
10-10-2012, 02:15 AM
Scorer. Thibs can then teach him how to play defense.

Hawkeye15
10-10-2012, 02:19 AM
without context? A

mikekhelxD
10-10-2012, 02:21 AM
NVM mind earlier post.

I'll pair my superstar with another scorer.

Chill_Will_24
10-10-2012, 02:21 AM
Depends on the position honestly:

Chandler>Lopez

Tony Allen > Nick Young

Melo> Keith Bogans

mngopher35
10-10-2012, 03:20 AM
Ya it kinda depends. If im choosing any defensive player in the league or any offensive, id proably take a defensive center like chandler first. If its a guard or a wing id probably normaly take the scorer, but if its a defensive big such as chandler or ibaka I probably lean defensive player.

jerellh528
10-10-2012, 03:29 AM
As a great scorer you challenge the person guarding you to expend lots of energy which in turn may help the great scorer guard his man at the other end.
on the other hand if you are just a great defender but have no threat to score than all of the opponents energy will be put into scoring and since he has to waste little energy guarding you, that makes your night harder since all his energy will be put into scoring without worrying about having to guard the other end.
Option A for me.

FOBolous
10-10-2012, 03:42 AM
a good scorer can help spread the floor and make it harder to guard your superstar. On the other hand, your superstar will be forced to spent more energy on the defensive end guarding the other team's best player.

a good defender can guard the other team's best player allowing your superstar to rest on the defensive end so he'll have more energy when he plays on offense. On the other hand, the opposing team can slack off that player and focus on guarding your superstar.

abe_froman
10-10-2012, 04:11 AM
scorer,the game values scoring alot higher(this isnt a criticism,just a fact)...in fact the impactfulness of defense gets a tad overplayed/overrated on forums like these

rex.reyesiii
10-10-2012, 05:02 AM
defender, then have him to always pass to someone who can score or to the PG offcourse have him decide the Play. :)

thenaj17
10-10-2012, 05:07 AM
So people are mainly voting defender? They would take Sefolosha ahead of Harden?

Scoring is so much harder to do than defending. No defender in this league is the equivalent of Revis in the NFL so i would definitely take an excellent scorer ahead of an excellent defender.

If in certain context of who else is in the team (which is very important), it would possibly change

YoungOne
10-10-2012, 05:08 AM
the defenders u listed are nearly all capable scorers

xcrisisx
10-10-2012, 05:10 AM
scoring is mostly skill, defence is mostly effort

Bruno
10-10-2012, 05:13 AM
so tough to say. how elite of a scorer, how elite of a defender? team needs? tony allen or kevin martin? pretty circumstantial.

PurpleJesus
10-10-2012, 05:28 AM
If the question was, would you prefer Carmelo Anthony over Tony Allen, than, I choose Melo...but, the defender is a role player, meaning a star would be put with him. Melo is not a role player.

If I have a team with a star on it already, I choose the defender...ex, why put JR Smith (scorer, no defense) on a team with Melo...why not put a defender in the role JR has?

JayW_1023
10-10-2012, 05:52 AM
I would prefer Adam Morrison. I mean the guy is a two time champ and stopped LeBron once.

:p

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/games/2006-11-04-bobcats-cavs_x.htm

Raidaz4Life
10-10-2012, 06:26 AM
Scorer with no further team context.

Swashcuff
10-10-2012, 06:44 AM
Granger was an excellent defender this past season and above average for the most part of his career he shouldn't be there same for Josh Smith and Iggy

JNoel
10-10-2012, 06:51 AM
This is basically a comparison of Monta Ellis, and Tony Allen

Swashcuff
10-10-2012, 07:13 AM
Well balanced all round superstars in the NBA currently. Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant yeah I'll without a doubt choose the scorer who doesn't play D. Those players have been most successful when they have had well rounded teams with a capable #2 options who in many cases were better know for their offense than their D.

D2theJ
10-10-2012, 07:27 AM
Easily offense IMO but it depends. Even the worst defenders are at least out there doing something as a defender. I'd take 15-20 PPG over guys like Battier and Allen who won't score 10. But guys like Iggy at least have offensive talent as well, so if you're talking about a guy like that I'd rather him than say Kevin Martin or Monta Ellis. You can easily sign role players for cheap that play good solid defense, but you can't go out and pick up a 20 point scorer.

Heediot
10-10-2012, 07:37 AM
There are a lot of capable scorers, the problem is how efficiently can they score?

There's always a place in the league for guys that can defend.

Some guys can create their own shot, but they also shoot their teams out of games.

OF course like many have said it depends on who else is on the team. But looking over the landscape of the league their are plenty of guys capable of scoring and not nearly as much capable of defending. I'll go with what's more rare.

xcrisisx
10-10-2012, 07:44 AM
Granger was an excellent defender this past season and above average for the most part of his career he shouldn't be there same for Josh Smith and Iggy

c'mon man... he isn't face it

iggy/smith agree

KnicksorBust
10-10-2012, 08:47 AM
Since a scorer's shot will have off nights.. And defense is more effort and desire.
I would choose Defense...

The old cliche still holds true... Defense wins championships...

By that same token wouldnt it be easier to get a talented offensive player to play defense?

Rockice_8
10-10-2012, 11:17 AM
Scorer. you can teach D but you can't teach offensive touch.

This ^^

b@llhog24
10-10-2012, 11:28 AM
There are a lot of capable scorers, the problem is how efficiently can they score?

There's always a place in the league for guys that can defend.

Some guys can create their own shot, but they also shoot their teams out of games.

OF course like many have said it depends on who else is on the team. But looking over the landscape of the league their are plenty of guys capable of scoring and not nearly as much capable of defending. I'll go with what's more rare.

Yea but there are lots of players like Luis Scola who give a ton of effort on D but at the end of the day he just sucks.

Swashcuff
10-10-2012, 11:33 AM
Yea but there are lots of players like Luis Scola who give a ton of effort on D but at the end of the day he just sucks.

Did I say the more I read your posts the more I respect your opinion? This is the exact same thing I've seen for the last 3 years and when I checked the stats the backed it up.

b@llhog24
10-10-2012, 11:36 AM
The whole "defense wins championships" thing is so overrated. For instance in the year 2010 the Bobcats had the #1 ranked defense and finished with a record of 44-38. Phoenix was conversely who had the best offense finished at 54-28.

b@llhog24
10-10-2012, 11:39 AM
Did I say the more I read your posts the more I respect your opinion?

:)


This is the exact same thing I've seen for the last 3 years and when I checked the stats the backed it up.

There are tons of players who try there hardest but just simply can't play D whether its due to not having the necessary defensive instincts or athleticism.

MetroMan
10-10-2012, 11:42 AM
Depends on the team,if the team already has great defense I will take the shooter. If it don't I'll take the d.

It also depends on how great is the offense, of it's jordon like I'll take that

Chronz
10-10-2012, 11:49 AM
Ill take the better player

DoMeFavors
10-10-2012, 11:53 AM
I would take a scorer who most of the times can out score his matchup over a defender that who no matter what will most likely have around the same as their match up.

Nightmare
10-10-2012, 12:16 PM
Well balanced all round superstars in the NBA currently. Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade, Chris Paul, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant yeah I'll without a doubt choose the scorer who doesn't play D. Those players have been most successful when they have had well rounded teams with a capable #2 options who in many cases were better know for their offense than their D.

Hard to argue that. :clap:

bagwell368
10-10-2012, 12:25 PM
Scorer. you can teach D but you can't teach offensive touch.

Not quite. These guys have all "learned" how to play D. The question is, will they apply themselves?

The big bucks is reserved for all around great players or scorers or Centers that are immense D players. All other players are trying to move into those categories if possible. In the words of Pete Rose. HR hitters drive Cadillacs and singles hitters drive Chevy's.

I want balance. Either extreme is no good, but is is easier to find wannabe scorers than intense defenders.

Mikeleafs
10-10-2012, 01:31 PM
Defense wins championships, Offence gets you to the AllStar game...

Swashcuff
10-10-2012, 01:33 PM
Defense wins championships, Offence gets you to the AllStar game...

Ballhog you were saying? :laugh2:

Mr. LA
10-10-2012, 01:46 PM
Jamison

DR_1
10-10-2012, 01:57 PM
Scorer. Thibs can then teach him how to play defense.

This. Unless his last name is Boozer or Stoudemire.

Mikeleafs
10-10-2012, 02:24 PM
Ballhog you were saying? :laugh2:

Huh?

How are Bynum's knees doing? LOL

IndyRealist
10-10-2012, 02:27 PM
Scorer. you can teach D but you can't teach offensive touch.

That's backwards. You can teach someone to shoot jumpers and contribute on offense. You can't teach someone lateral quickness. You can't teach someone to anticipate plays, it'd be like trying to teach someone court vision. Either you have it or you don't.

I think the assumption is that you're taking someone who is a fantastic defender, but is incapable of learning offense. Because by the time they reach the NBA, if they could have become a good offensive player they would have by that point. Whereas for the offensive player, especially if they're naturally gifted, defense is overlooked. They have all the physical tools to be a good defender, they just never tried. Melo vs. Tony Allen for instance, is not a good comparison. JR Smith vs. Tony Allen is a better example. Melo has all the tools to be a good defender, he just doesn't.

But teaching someone to be a spot up shooter is relatively easy and allows them to contribute on offense, and keep the defense honest. Now what skill would be easily taught to an offensive player to allow him to contribute on defense?

Heediot
10-10-2012, 02:31 PM
Yea but there are lots of players like Luis Scola who give a ton of effort on D but at the end of the day he just sucks.

So if the question begs would I rather have the efficient scorer over the efficient defender, I don't know who I would pick?

b@llhog24
10-10-2012, 10:28 PM
Defense wins championships, Offence gets you to the AllStar game...

Last time I checked the team who has the most points at the end of the game wins.


Ballhog you were saying? :laugh2:

Lol its PSD what you gonna do? :shrug:


Huh?

How are Bynum's knees doing? LOL

How is that even relevant? :confused:


So if the question begs would I rather have the efficient scorer over the efficient defender, I don't know who I would pick?

Think about it like this, who do you think would have the most impact on a lottery team? The defender or the great offensive player. Before the 08ish area LeBron wasn't seen as a good defender and just look at how far he willed those teams. Maybe a guy like LeBron is overkill but you simply can find more examples of great/good offensive players carrying their teams further than the defensive player. I seriously doubt Deke could carry a lottery team to the players, although Deke did have some offense to his game.

JordansBulls
10-10-2012, 10:44 PM
Is the scorer Barkley or Nique and is the defender Bill Russell, Dikembe, b Wallace? I guess it depends on the level of the player.

b@llhog24
10-10-2012, 10:53 PM
Is the scorer Barkley or Nique and is the defender Bill Russell, Dikembe, b Wallace? I guess it depends on the level of the player.

Barkley is better than all of them cept maybe Bill.

bucketss
10-10-2012, 11:06 PM
melo vs tony allen melo wins

bargnani vs serge ibaka

TheSource
10-10-2012, 11:07 PM
Depends on the cast.. but I'd go for a scorer.

Jamiecballer
10-10-2012, 11:09 PM
defender who can't score. the other guys are a dime a dozen. plus the defender contributes on every possession and the scorer does not.

b@llhog24
10-10-2012, 11:20 PM
bargnani vs serge ibaka

Bargani is going to breakout man.

Heediot
10-11-2012, 06:24 AM
Last time I checked the team who has the most points at the end of the game wins.



Lol its PSD what you gonna do? :shrug:



How is that even relevant? :confused:



Think about it like this, who do you think would have the most impact on a lottery team? The defender or the great offensive player. Before the 08ish area LeBron wasn't seen as a good defender and just look at how far he willed those teams. Maybe a guy like LeBron is overkill but you simply can find more examples of great/good offensive players carrying their teams further than the defensive player. I seriously doubt Deke could carry a lottery team to the players, although Deke did have some offense to his game.

I think team defense and clutch scoring wins championships. Teams with top defenses have proven to fare better and win more ships than teams with great offenses. You can win with a great offense but you still need a minimum of average defense to do that. There should be a balance between the two, defense tends to tip the scale more. The Suns and Mavs (before Chandler) are two examples of all offense and weak defense.

Yeah you are right an offensive player can carry a team, but in my view only so far without defense. The same can probably be said with a defensive minded team with no elite scoring threat, but that can be off-set if you have a clutch scorer.

It's a toss up. At the end of the day you need balance.

ldawg
10-11-2012, 07:01 AM
It depends on lots of things like, Team style, position played, teammates. Like Mutombo, Ben Wallace or Yoa, Lopez

b@llhog24
10-11-2012, 08:58 AM
I think team defense and clutch scoring wins championships. Teams with top defenses have proven to fare better and win more ships than teams with great offenses. You can win with a great offense but you still need a minimum of average defense to do that. There should be a balance between the two, defense tends to tip the scale more. The Suns and Mavs (before Chandler) are two examples of all offense and weak defense.

Yeah you are right an offensive player can carry a team, but in my view only so far without defense. The same can probably be said with a defensive minded team with no elite scoring threat, but that can be off-set if you have a clutch scorer.

It's a toss up. At the end of the day you need balance.

Well we both agree you need balance but if we're talking about how much one individual affects a team more often than not the offensive player has the larger impact. You cited the Mavs as an example of a team that weren't elite defensively before Chandler but yet the were stringing together +50 win seasons. Chandler just put them over the top but the only reason he was in a position to put them over the top was because their offense had already covered all the ground.

b@llhog24
10-11-2012, 09:01 AM
Another thought to throw out there, Iggy is regarded as a GREAT defender right? Yet when he plays LeBron he gets lit up. Why? Because a great offensive player can trump a great defensive player, it doesn't mean that Iggy's D was better or worse its just only so far defense can account for.

Swashcuff
10-11-2012, 09:29 AM
Another thought to throw out there, Iggy is regarded as a GREAT defender right? Yet when he plays LeBron he gets lit up. Why? Because a great offensive player can trump a great defensive player, it doesn't mean that Iggy's D was better or worse its just only so far defense can account for.

:clap:

Even I as an Iggy fan can admit this. We had one of the best perimeter defenses in the league last season. I'll always remind people of Iggy's 2nd year in the league when he held Kobe to 17 points on 7-27 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200511110PHI.html) shooting from the field in Kobe's 35.6 ppg season it was the first time that season Kobe scored less than 20 points in a game. Guess what Kobe did to us the next time he matched up against Iggy? He dropped 48 while shooting 19-29 from the field. You can be all world defensively but a quality offensive player is going to get his regardless of your individual D.