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View Full Version : Do you believe a specialized player deserves to make the Hall of Fame?



Vampirate
10-07-2012, 01:07 PM
What I mean by speacialized player is someone who really excells at 1 part of the game however they are average to terrible at everything else, or due to their position they don't due them at all.

I'll ask this, and i'm gonna get flak from Yankee fans. Mariano Rivera is the best closer of all time, no question. He was also very important in the Yankees championship runs. Do you believe he belongs in the Hall of Fame?

Now, I personally do but that brings up a thought process of mine.

Mariano, regardless of how good he is, is still a closer, a speacialized role to lock the 9th inning to win the game. Mariano, I don't think has ever took a at bat in a game (correct me if i'm wrong) pretty much because he's in the AL and since he's a closer, would only bat in extra innings in a interleague game or world series, if it got to that point.

Another thing is due to his role, he rarely pitches in the 8th inning or prior. He is what he is, the best 1 inning pitcher in the history of the game.

So what am I getting at with all this? Simple, if you do let Mariano Rivera into the Hall of Fame then you would have to let in players like a Designated Hitter, a player who was great with the bat but average to horrible with the glove, or a player who was graet with the glove but average to horrible with the bat.

MetsFanatic19
10-07-2012, 01:08 PM
Yes. If they're assigned a job and they do it better than anyone, they deserve to get in.

goose14741
10-07-2012, 01:10 PM
I read the whole thing, took all ur points into consideration, and still the answer is of course he belongs in the friggin hall of fame

Vampirate
10-07-2012, 01:12 PM
I read the whole thing, took all ur points into consideration, and still the answer is of course he belongs in the friggin hall of fame

I never said he didn't, but if Mariano gets in, so would players like Edgar Martinez and Omar Visquel imo.

sexicano31
10-07-2012, 01:15 PM
See when you said specialist, I was thinking someone along the lines of Matt Stairs or a really good LOOGY

Lord_of_Dogtown
10-07-2012, 01:23 PM
Like Reed Johnson? Cause he wrecked lefties

Kings Analyst
10-07-2012, 01:29 PM
If you have good enough stats then no more matter what your position is you deserve to be in.

carnage101
10-07-2012, 01:35 PM
If you have good enough stats then no more matter what your position is you deserve to be in.

Edgar no, Mo obviously yes, Ortiz no because of steroids.

MetsFanatic19
10-07-2012, 01:46 PM
I would say a DH deserves to get in, as long as he had the stats to prove he deserves to get in.

RangersMets
10-07-2012, 02:19 PM
Julio Franco was really good at being old

-Lavigne43-
10-07-2012, 02:48 PM
I never said he didn't, but if Mariano gets in, so would players like Edgar Martinez and Omar Visquel imo.

Mariano wouldn't be the first closer to get in. He will certainly be the best. Voters don't have the same problem with relievers that they do with DH's getting in.

Vampirate
10-07-2012, 03:06 PM
Mariano wouldn't be the first closer to get in. He will certainly be the best. Voters don't have the same problem with relievers that they do with DH's getting in.

Seems hypocritical if you ask me.

A DH has more of an impact on a season as a closer as a DH bats 3-5 times a game for 162 games.

A closer pitches 1 inning, and only really pitches on the circumstance on how the team is doing 7-8 innings prior.

A closer usually pitches around 30-50 innings total a year, depending on team performance.

beldugo
10-07-2012, 03:16 PM
Edgar no, Mo obviously yes, Ortiz no because of steroids.

Ortiz using steroids is purely speculation.

Jack of Blades
10-07-2012, 03:23 PM
Mariano has had an at bat. He even got an RBI.

-Lavigne43-
10-07-2012, 03:43 PM
Seems hypocritical if you ask me.

A DH has more of an impact on a season as a closer as a DH bats 3-5 times a game for 162 games.

A closer pitches 1 inning, and only really pitches on the circumstance on how the team is doing 7-8 innings prior.

A closer usually pitches around 30-50 innings total a year, depending on team performance.

I agree. I don't get how someone who is fine with a reliever getting in is vehemently against a DH getting in. Edgar had a decent percentage of games at 3b too.

JdKing7
10-07-2012, 03:47 PM
Mariano has had an at bat. He even got an RBI.

You are correct. He actually has 3 at-bats. He has no hits but he walked one time with the bases loaded so yes he does have an RBI and an obp of .250

Vampirate
10-07-2012, 04:04 PM
You are correct. He actually has 3 at-bats. He has no hits but he walked one time with the bases loaded so yes he does have an RBI and an obp of .250

Babe Ruth look out.

OBP of .250? Hmmm that only like 20 - 30 points of then some of Toronto's hitters this year.

JdKing7
10-07-2012, 04:26 PM
Babe Ruth look out.

OBP of .250? Hmmm that only like 20 - 30 points of then some of Toronto's hitters this year.

Whats your point bro? All i was doin was justifying someone elses comment.

Vampirate
10-07-2012, 04:27 PM
Whats your point bro? All i was doin was justifying someone elses comment.

Just making a silly comment.

JdKing7
10-07-2012, 04:32 PM
Haha its all good man just wasn't sure how to take it

abe_froman
10-07-2012, 04:48 PM
I never said he didn't, but if Mariano gets in, so would players like Edgar Martinez and Omar Visquel imo.

edgar matinez should be in the hof,he's probably one of the top canidates to replace santo in the "guy who isnt in,its a shame he isnt".and mo will get in,as was said,he isnt the first and wont be the last closer to get in.if your that good/impactful than you should go in no matter the position/role you play

scottythegreat1
10-07-2012, 07:32 PM
Yes!

Realistically, closers are just like positions players and starters now. Just because he only plays 70 innings a season (just for argument), he is just as important in the game as any other position player.

Even if its a guy that only bats, DH is considered a position spot, and yes, guys like Edgar Martinez, Jim Thome and Frank Thomas deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

Jeffy25
10-07-2012, 07:49 PM
How epic are they at that aspect of the game, and are they at least average at the rest?


Ozzie Smith was such a good defensive player, that simply being an average hitter for his position was good enough.

Most players that are excellent at the one aspect are not good enough to also be hall of famers.

If a players is an epic home run hitter, but is terrible at everything else.

Like let's say they are mostly relegated to DHing

They hit 40 home runs every season, but their season is as bad as Adam Dunn's was this year (Or Granderson's)

Dunn hit .204/.333/.468 for the worst offensive season ever where a player hit 40 home runs.

That would not be a hall of famer, even if he did that for 20 seasons

He would have 800 career home runs, and the home run record.

And he would have 1900 RBI's. But he would also only be carrying a 20 WAR and he wasn't very productive. He just hit home runs and tried to walk and strike out as much as possible.

You have to be really really special at the thing you are elite at (like Ozzie was defensively) to be a hall one tool hall of famer. Rarely is that going to happen. Most guys that are special at one tool, and bad at the others are not special enough at that one tool to make them Cooperstown worthy.

Driven
10-07-2012, 07:56 PM
EDIT: NEvermind

Driven
10-07-2012, 08:00 PM
Dunn hit .204/.333/.468 for the worst offensive season ever where a player hit 40 home runs.

Tony Batista says hi.

bagwell368
10-07-2012, 09:25 PM
That would not be a hall of famer, even if he did that for 20 seasons

He would have 800 career home runs, and the home run record.

And he would have 1900 RBI's. But he would also only be carrying a 20 WAR and he wasn't very productive. He just hit home runs and tried to walk and strike out as much as possible.


Dunn oWAR: 29.5

Dunn rWAR: -25.2

It's not Dunn's fault he's in the field. The Donkey should have been a DH his whole career. Even so, he's no HOF'er.

bagwell368
10-07-2012, 09:30 PM
Jeff Burroughs 1977: 0.5 rWAR is da champ....

Jeffy25
10-07-2012, 09:46 PM
Tony Batista says hi.

Yeah, Bautista is barely ahead in OPS, I didn't bother to look more closely at anything else when I said 'worst season with 40 homers ever. I'm sure there have been some worse one's that could have fit the example better.

SenorGato
10-07-2012, 10:52 PM
It will be interesting/awesome if there's ever a Ben Zobrist type player who somehow has a 20 year career that way.

Jeffy25
10-08-2012, 09:29 AM
It will be interesting/awesome if there's ever a Ben Zobrist type player who somehow has a 20 year career that way.


Over 20 years, using Zobrist's last 4 years as the average

.268/.369/.458
385 HR
370 SB
.362 wOBA
130 wRC+
125.5 fWAR
elite defense at second and right field, and played some short.


An easy hall of famer

LAcowBOMBER
10-08-2012, 04:47 PM
Edgar wasn't that good. He was good for DHs of the time but if he played say first with those numbers he would not get in. Mo is going into the hall on the first ballot and that's how it should be. Ortiz should go in as well

Jeffy25
10-08-2012, 05:32 PM
Edgar wasn't that good. He was good for DHs of the time but if he played say first with those numbers he would not get in. Mo is going into the hall on the first ballot and that's how it should be. Ortiz should go in as well

Edgar career slash line
.312/.418/.515 - .405 wOBA, 148 wRC+

8674 PA


What world would he not get in as a first basemen?

Even if the league average first basemen had a .800 OPS, that is an easy deserving hall of famer.

And it's not like he was horrible defensively. He was about average defensively at third when he did play there.

Pinstripe pride
10-09-2012, 09:25 AM
closer is not really a specialist anymore. its its own position, and closers should be eligible for the HOF. not guys lkike utitlity infielders, LOOGYs, set up men etc. though