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View Full Version : Indians to Hire Francona!



IndiansFan337
10-06-2012, 04:26 PM
According to FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal, the Indians will make Terry Francona their next manager.
The Tribe fired former skipper Manny Acta a couple days before the end of the regular season. Francona was labeled the frontrunner for the job soon after, and apparently hit the right notes during his interview with club officials earlier this week. It seems like a nice fit, though Francona won't be working with the kind of talent he had in Boston. Not immediately, at least.

Rotoworld.com

Yankee Clipper
10-06-2012, 04:28 PM
Nice! :clap:

Fly
10-06-2012, 04:29 PM
Very nice hiring for them.

SenorGato
10-06-2012, 04:30 PM
Nice hire by them.

IndiansFan337
10-06-2012, 04:31 PM
I can't believe he would sign with us. Management must have told him they were going to increase the payroll since there isn't much help in the upper minors right now.

LakersA's49ers
10-06-2012, 04:42 PM
Props to the tribe. Right the ship!

DamnGoat
10-06-2012, 04:43 PM
Good signing for the Indians.

flea
10-06-2012, 04:45 PM
Funny, they're going from one of the best managers in the league (Acta) to one of the worst and people are happy. It's amazing what managing a good team does for you, I guess.

ciaban
10-06-2012, 04:48 PM
I can't believe he would sign with us. Management must have told him they were going to increase the payroll since there isn't much help in the upper minors right now.

he has a lot of history with the gm and a few other people, plus this is the team his dad played for the indians for six years too.

rocket
10-06-2012, 04:49 PM
****! I was hoping he would come to Detroit

Rush
10-06-2012, 04:50 PM
:clap:

IndiansFan337
10-06-2012, 04:51 PM
he has a lot of history with the gm and a few other people, plus this is the team his dad played for the indians for six years too.

I know, but we don't have much talent right now and there are no impact prospects in our system above A ball.

Ill21
10-06-2012, 04:53 PM
Great move

oak2455
10-06-2012, 04:57 PM
Great manager and great person Cleveland is one lucky team

Panthers4life
10-06-2012, 04:58 PM
I know, but we don't have much talent right now and there are no impact prospects in our system above A ball.

asdrubal, kipnis, santana, brantley, choo, chisenhall... our pen is very solid. we do have some talent and pieces.. we just need a couple of top of rotation guys and one right handed power bats. but to say we don't have talent is a reach.

Bo Sox Fan
10-06-2012, 05:14 PM
Great hire for Cleveland, your getting a great manager and an even better person.

Saying that I wouldn't go as far to say Cleveland is now an immediate contendar, Tito doesn't have the same weapons he had to play with in Boston during his tenure there, not even close.

Still though, he's a nice fit.

IndiansFan337
10-06-2012, 05:14 PM
asdrubal, kipnis, santana, brantley, choo, chisenhall... our pen is very solid. we do have some talent and pieces.. we just need a couple of top of rotation guys and one right handed power bats. but to say we don't have talent is a reach.

Like you said, lots of holes. And even more if F/A's-to-be like Choo get dealt.

grandsalami
10-06-2012, 05:41 PM
RT @hoynsie: #Indians talking four-deal with Terry Francona to be their manager.

Guppyfighter
10-06-2012, 05:44 PM
No expectations and he can build the team like he wants.

Looking forward to watching the Indians in 3-4 years.

Driven
10-06-2012, 05:47 PM
How can you not like this signing!

Nomar
10-06-2012, 05:56 PM
I hope he wins another World Series. Great day for Cleveland.

Vintage
10-06-2012, 06:04 PM
Awesome move. Just got themselves one heck of a manager.

He's easily one of the best managers in the game.

Great day for you guys in Cleveland. Congrats!

cubs1st
10-06-2012, 06:10 PM
Great hire.

MetsFanatic19
10-06-2012, 06:22 PM
I hope they win the World Series and personally thank the Red Sox for firing him.

iAugust
10-06-2012, 06:29 PM
Awesome news. Welcome to Cleveland, Tito!

abe_froman
10-06-2012, 07:03 PM
i'm jealous.great move for cleveland

koldjerky
10-06-2012, 11:41 PM
I personally have never liked Francona and think he is severely overrated. A change and a solid name is good for Cleveland though.

letsgobrownies7
10-06-2012, 11:55 PM
IDK why he would sign either with the way the cheap arse Dolan's have been (no offense at all). Great hire though!!

flea
10-07-2012, 12:10 AM
I personally have never liked Francona and think he is severely overrated. A change and a solid name is good for Cleveland though.

Finally. Francona is below average at the very best. Thank you for making it so I'm not the only one here in on the TIto CJ.

Mell413
10-07-2012, 12:37 AM
What makes Francona overrated? Not saying you're wrong, but I'm just curious as to why or how he is overrated. I know some people use bad and overrated interchangeably, is that the case here?

MetsFanatic19
10-07-2012, 12:50 AM
He won 2 World Series' in 4 years with a franchise who previously went 86 years without winning one. It's hard to overrate that.

Vintage
10-07-2012, 01:52 AM
He won 2 World Series' in 4 years with a franchise who previously went 86 years without winning one. It's hard to overrate that.

Agreed.

fadedmario
10-07-2012, 02:20 AM
He's a goof.

Love his personality, but don't think he will ever be a top manager anytime soon.

UPRock
10-07-2012, 02:37 AM
Awesome signing, they can only get better with this.

flea
10-07-2012, 09:15 AM
He won 2 World Series' in 4 years with a franchise who previously went 86 years without winning one. It's hard to overrate that.

Oh did he pitch game 1? I must have forgotten.

He's a poor manager because he's been consistently one of the worst tactical managers, which is pretty difficult to do in the AL. I realize there's a human component to managing but players don't even seem to really respect him - he just lets them do whatever they want. That's fine when you've got the best right handed hitter of his generation, the best DH of his generation, an on base machine, one of the 3 best 2nd basemen of his generation, and probably the best player-manager of his generation all on your team. But when you don't have the perfect circumstances it's a different story.

MetsFanatic19
10-07-2012, 09:31 AM
Oh did he pitch game 1? I must have forgotten.

He's a poor manager because he's been consistently one of the worst tactical managers, which is pretty difficult to do in the AL. I realize there's a human component to managing but players don't even seem to really respect him - he just lets them do whatever they want. That's fine when you've got the best right handed hitter of his generation, the best DH of his generation, an on base machine, one of the 3 best 2nd basemen of his generation, and probably the best player-manager of his generation all on your team. But when you don't have the perfect circumstances it's a different story.

So you give him zero credit for winning two World Series' in 4 years? I understand that it's the players that play the game, but Boston had great teams with great managers in that 86 year span and none of them could win in the postseason.

Francona had to have done something right, because in his first year, he led them to the second best record in the American League, he led them to a ALCS series win after being down 3-0 to the Yankees, and he led them to a World Seires sweep. Credit is given where credit is deserved, and he has deserved it.

ichitownclowni
10-07-2012, 09:38 AM
Good move

flea
10-07-2012, 10:19 AM
So you give him zero credit for winning two World Series' in 4 years? I understand that it's the players that play the game, but Boston had great teams with great managers in that 86 year span and none of them could win in the postseason.

Francona had to have done something right, because in his first year, he led them to the second best record in the American League, he led them to a ALCS series win after being down 3-0 to the Yankees, and he led them to a World Seires sweep. Credit is given where credit is deserved, and he has deserved it.

What Francona did right was manage one of the better baseball teams of the last 20 years assembled by Theo Epstein. Managing the postseason in the AL is not a very difficult task in the first place, so I guess I'll give him credit for not failing miserably, but I'm not about to say he's the reason for their improbable comeback against the Yankees.

MetsFanatic19
10-07-2012, 10:44 AM
What Francona did right was manage one of the better baseball teams of the last 20 years assembled by Theo Epstein. Managing the postseason in the AL is not a very difficult task in the first place, so I guess I'll give him credit for not failing miserably, but I'm not about to say he's the reason for their improbable comeback against the Yankees.

So do you think that if a great team is assembled, they could win without a manager? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

Teddy was the leader of the Red Sox. He led them to 2 World Seires titles. He made the decisions to make it possible. If Bobby Valentine were the manager in 2004, do you think they would've made it as far as they did?

colinskik
10-07-2012, 10:56 AM
So do you think that if a great team is assembled, they could win without a manager? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

Teddy was the leader of the Red Sox. He led them to 2 World Seires titles. He made the decisions to make it possible. If Bobby Valentine were the manager in 2004, do you think they would've made it as far as they did?
The Bobby V comparison is way off base. It was the wrong time for that kind of manager. Remember the success he had with the Mets? Bobby is not the horrific manager that Boston made him out to be this year. Lets say for instance the Red Sox had won their titles with bobby at the helm, and then abruptly fired him and replaces him with theo. theo might be seen as persona non grata. their personalities are so different that it would never work that type of swap. I mostly blame the players for not giving bobby a chance.

flea
10-07-2012, 10:59 AM
So do you think that if a great team is assembled, they could win without a manager? Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

Teddy was the leader of the Red Sox. He led them to 2 World Seires titles. He made the decisions to make it possible. If Bobby Valentine were the manager in 2004, do you think they would've made it as far as they did?

Well obviously someone has to make in-game strategical decisions, but yes I think that could be virtually anyone. Given how poor Francona is at managing a bullpen I think he already proved my point.

MetsFanatic19
10-07-2012, 11:02 AM
The Bobby V comparison is way off base. It was the wrong time for that kind of manager. Remember the success he had with the Mets? Bobby is not the horrific manager that Boston made him out to be this year. Lets say for instance the Red Sox had won their titles with bobby at the helm, and then abruptly fired him and replaces him with theo. theo might be seen as persona non grata. their personalities are so different that it would never work that type of swap. I mostly blame the players for not giving bobby a chance.

But the argument I'm making is that Theo played a big part in their World Series runs and that he shouldn't be given little to zero credit for it.

I made that comparison just because of how Theo has done and how Bobby had done. It's a prime example on how a manager makes a big difference to their team.

MetsFanatic19
10-07-2012, 11:04 AM
Well obviously someone has to make in-game strategical decisions, but yes I think that could be virtually anyone. Given how poor Francona is at managing a bullpen I think he already proved my point.

It's not just the in-game decisions that make a difference, though. It's how he adresses them, how he handles situations like being down 3-0 to the Yankees, how he works with the players, how he gets their respect, etc...

prodigy
10-07-2012, 11:18 AM
I know, but we don't have much talent right now and there are no impact prospects in our system above A ball.

I disagree with that! Cleveland over the last two years have spent more time in 1st place then any other AL central team.

AC, Kipnis, Lonnie, Brantley, Choo, Santana, our whole Bullpen are all talented players. But SP is a huge weakness and we need a LF, 1st, DH for sure. But i def believe we have talent. Need more for sure but we have a solid core.

prodigy
10-07-2012, 11:26 AM
Oh did he pitch game 1? I must have forgotten.

He's a poor manager because he's been consistently one of the worst tactical managers, which is pretty difficult to do in the AL. I realize there's a human component to managing but players don't even seem to really respect him - he just lets them do whatever they want. That's fine when you've got the best right handed hitter of his generation, the best DH of his generation, an on base machine, one of the 3 best 2nd basemen of his generation, and probably the best player-manager of his generation all on your team. But when you don't have the perfect circumstances it's a different story.

Shoot if he gets my tribe Two world Series titles he can be the worst tactical manager all he wants lol!

This is how i see the the hiring:

- Francona has a great relationship with players
- A proven winner(Indians have not had that in years)
- Although he might have made bad tactical moves, I bet he made alot of good ones too.
- Will force the front office to spend money. (I believe he already has or why take the job?)

flea
10-07-2012, 11:32 AM
It's not just the in-game decisions that make a difference, though. It's how he adresses them, how he handles situations like being down 3-0 to the Yankees, how he works with the players, how he gets their respect, etc...

Nothing shouts respect like beer and fried chicken.

MetsFanatic19
10-07-2012, 11:40 AM
Nothing shouts respect like beer and fried chicken.

Nice one. Three players in 8 years, in an incident that was blown way out of proportion. Yeah, it's ridiculous that they did that, but some of the stories surrounding that are a bit stretched, and I doubt it had any relation to Theo at all. It just shows how absurd those three specific players are.

flea
10-07-2012, 11:45 AM
Well Francona makes his hay as a player's manager so let's compare him to another player's manager. Do you think that incident would have happened under Bobby Cox's watch (with the same players)?

MetsFanatic19
10-07-2012, 11:48 AM
Well Francona makes his hay as a player's manager so let's compare him to another player's manager. Do you think that incident would have happened under Bobby Cox's watch (with the same players)?

Who knows, because Lackey, Beckett, and Lester never played for Cox. I see that situation as the players being disrespectful and absurd in general, not because they wanted to "stick it to the man."

IndiansFan337
10-07-2012, 01:41 PM
I personally have never liked Francona and think he is severely overrated. A change and a solid name is good for Cleveland though.

That's because you're a Philly fan. Boston fans feel the exact opposite. So he probably belongs somewhere in between.

I would argue Charlie Manuel is severely overrated too, but Philly fans probably like him?

MetsFanatic19
10-07-2012, 01:44 PM
Every fan could think that every manager is overrated because they don't play, but a good or bad manager makes a huge difference on team performance.

GiantsNinersW's
10-07-2012, 01:50 PM
Great move for the Indians.

flea
10-07-2012, 02:18 PM
He was so good at managing playtime in Boston that Theo Epstein handled it. Virtually the only thing he did (other than not discipline his players) was poorly manage a bullpen.

Ian.
10-07-2012, 09:05 PM
Doesn't make a difference. They have very little affect

dtmagnet
10-07-2012, 09:29 PM
If Farrell leaves for the Red Sox I wouldn't mind Acta coming to Toronto.

thomass
10-08-2012, 02:39 AM
baseball managers are so overrated. they hand the ump the same lineup card everynight, their pitchers have defined roles already, and they dont have to do any coaching. Anyone can manage an mlb team.

mark1125
10-08-2012, 07:54 AM
Personally, I don't think Tito is the end all-be all of managers. With that said, his past success will get him respect in the locker room and the Tribe needed a shakeup.

I would say it was a good signing considering the current state of the Indians. Those expecting him to turn Cleveland around next year may be disappointed however.

DJYankee
10-08-2012, 09:24 AM
Nice for them. I really like him even when he was in Boston. It was really hard to hate that guy. Good for them.

Jeffy25
10-08-2012, 11:14 AM
A very good hiring

Nomar
10-08-2012, 11:24 AM
Finally. Francona is below average at the very best. Thank you for making it so I'm not the only one here in on the TIto CJ.

Please explain your criteria for a manger then show me how Francona is below average.

MetsFanatic19
10-08-2012, 12:17 PM
Any manager who can win 2 World Seires rings can be the manager of my team any day of the week.

flea
10-08-2012, 01:17 PM
Please explain your criteria for a manger then show me how Francona is below average.

Clubhouse management is a large part of the job, and consistently what players rank as the important thing that a manager does. Anyone can manage an elite team because winning is easy. His stint in Philly did nothing to inspire confidence, and his much written about exit from Boston shows just how poor of a people manager he really is. The players liked him because he basically let them do whatever they want. That sounds like a really fun boss to have, but also a very ineffective one unless your workplace is stocked with the very best and self-motiviated individuals. Let's be generous and give him a C-.

Probably the second most important part of the job is managing playing time a day-to-day basis. This is easier in the AL, but it still very important for maintaining the health and effectiveness of your players. As I stated before, Francona's ability to do this inspired so much confidence in his GM that Theo Epstein did it for him. So basically Francona gets a no grade here.

The final major piece to the puzzle is bullpen management - and Francona was terrible at it (http://www.overthemonster.com/2011/9/30/2460105/on-terry-francona). We'll be nice and give him a D, since he had some nice pieces and didn't totally blow out Papelbon's arm.

Big market people will suggest that dealing with the media is another important part of the puzzle, and I believe that's the case but not to any significant degree. It's only the most petulant and small people who can't handle what the managerial job entails - which is taking responsibility and shifting it away from your players so they can focus on playing. Francona did a fine job at this until things went sour when he was basically left at a loss. We'll give him a B+ still though.

So overall he fails pretty badly in 2 important areas and didn't even perform another important area becuse his GM didn't trust him (with good reason, no doubt). It's amazing what a good team can do for a manager's career.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-08-2012, 02:00 PM
Kinda surprised that he choose the Indians so soon. I'm saying this because isn't there the possibility that the Angels and Rangers managerial jobs open soon?

Jeffy25
10-08-2012, 02:11 PM
Clubhouse management is a large part of the job, and consistently what players rank as the important thing that a manager does. Anyone can manage an elite team because winning is easy. His stint in Philly did nothing to inspire confidence, and his much written about exit from Boston shows just how poor of a people manager he really is. The players liked him because he basically let them do whatever they want. That sounds like a really fun boss to have, but also a very ineffective one unless your workplace is stocked with the very best and self-motiviated individuals. Let's be generous and give him a C-.

Probably the second most important part of the job is managing playing time a day-to-day basis. This is easier in the AL, but it still very important for maintaining the health and effectiveness of your players. As I stated before, Francona's ability to do this inspired so much confidence in his GM that Theo Epstein did it for him. So basically Francona gets a no grade here.

The final major piece to the puzzle is bullpen management - and Francona was terrible at it (http://www.overthemonster.com/2011/9/30/2460105/on-terry-francona). We'll be nice and give him a D, since he had some nice pieces and didn't totally blow out Papelbon's arm.

Big market people will suggest that dealing with the media is another important part of the puzzle, and I believe that's the case but not to any significant degree. It's only the most petulant and small people who can't handle what the managerial job entails - which is taking responsibility and shifting it away from your players so they can focus on playing. Francona did a fine job at this until things went sour when he was basically left at a loss. We'll give him a B+ still though.

So overall he fails pretty badly in 2 important areas and didn't even perform another important area becuse his GM didn't trust him (with good reason, no doubt). It's amazing what a good team can do for a manager's career.

Does Francona not get credit for being a good in-game decision maker?

Or for having a good post-season resume?


He lost the club last year, but seeing how Valentine couldn't improve it, I don't know how much blame he truly deserves.

The rest of what you said I agree with, but I think the perception of Francona isn't quite fair. He was in the most soap opera clubhouse that baseball has/had. Is he to blame for it? Or was it something he couldn't fix?

Jeffy25
10-08-2012, 02:12 PM
Kinda surprised that he choose the Indians so soon. I'm saying this because isn't there the possibility that the Angels and Rangers managerial jobs open soon?

He is friends with the GM, and he has a history in Cleveland.

I think that's mainly why


and he got a 4 year deal.

MetsFanatic19
10-08-2012, 02:28 PM
Kinda surprised that he choose the Indians so soon. I'm saying this because isn't there the possibility that the Angels and Rangers managerial jobs open soon?

It could be the want to go to a small market club instead of a popular powerhouse such as Texas or Los Angelas. Take some of the pressure off.

Jeffy25
10-08-2012, 02:42 PM
^ that, and you don't know if those jobs exist yet or not really.

Had a similar situation with my wife recently.


Made a big change from her job to a new job. A lot more money, great perks. But she had another job that is being 'made for her' but it hasn't happened yet, and that employer has been all over her about taking this other job.

Well that other job doesn't exist yet. So you can't exactly pass up a good opportunity just because you are hoping for something better.

For Francona. This job is here, it's tangible. He had the offer in hand. It's better than being a broadcaster. It's what he wants to do. It makes total sense to go to Cleveland over possibly not managing for another year. I'm sure he hated this past season.

Arch Stanton
10-08-2012, 11:28 PM
Well, I think Chris Perez is pumped for the new skipper. I hope Sandy Alomar stays with the team. I never had an issue with Acta but think Francona is an upgrade.

Pinstripe pride
10-09-2012, 09:23 AM
good hire for the tribe. no just give him rick vaughn to work with