PDA

View Full Version : Did Shaq reach his potential?



JasonJohnHorn
10-06-2012, 02:36 PM
I know Shaq was one of the most, if not the most dominant players in the history of the game. He's got four rings! He's got two scoring titles. The highest career FG% of any player in the NBA. NCAA player of the year. ROY. Three finals MVPs. One regular season MVP (side note: just one? seems like he should have maybe got a few more). Three All-Star game MVPs (for whatever their worth). 15 All-Star game appearances! Nine All-NBA first team appearances! To go along with six All-NBA 2nd/3rd team appearances. Three All-NBA 2nd team appearances. I mean, he is a first ballot HOF qithout question and some (though not me) would argue the best player in the history of the game.

But I don't think he reached his potential. I note, firstly, he never had an All-Defensive First team appearance, and only made the 2nd team three times in his career. I mean, why wasn't Shaq as dominant in the paint defensively as he was offensively? Dwight already has THREE DPOY awards, and he's bound to get another five barring injury. Hakeem. Robinson. They both pulled out a couple of DPOY awards. How come Shaq never pulled that off? He never lead the league in blocks? He never lead the league in rebounding? Guys like Robinson and Hakeem, they made it a habit to lead the elague in rebounding and blocks, and showing up on the All-defensive teams. I mean, Ben Wallace was only 6'8 or 6'9 and he was grabbing 15 boards a game while Shaq was just pulling down 11 (at 30 years of age to Wallace's 28). Then there was the fall off in production. I think Kareem and Karl Malone (and to a lesser extent Moses Malone) set the bar pretty high for longevity. But Shaq seemed to start mailing in his performance pretty early in his career. From the age of 30, to 31, his scoring dropped from 27 to 21 (and I realize part of that was Kobe taking on a bigger role in the offence). Shaq's rebounding stayed around 10 a game until Miami cut back his minutes. But... I dunno..

Part of me is upset because I think Shaq relied to heavily on his physical gifts. I read Shaq Uncut and he touched on the fact that he envied Garnett and Duncan because they could face up and shoot, and he wished he could do the same. And yeah, why shoot a 20 footer when yuo can just take it to the paint and dunk it right? But, honestly, as dominant as Shaq was on offense because of his size, I don't have the kind of respect for his offensive game that I do for Karl Malone and Duncan and Garnett. Even Howard has put in a lot of work on his jumper and he's getting pretty good at it in practice (though SVG didn't seem to want him using that jumper too much in games). As much as Shaq scored, part of me thinks he should have been scoring even more, and that he should have been posting 20+ well into his mid 30's. At 35 he was scoring 13 points a game. Karl Malone was scoring 22 a game at 35. Kareem was scoring 21! Jordan was scoring 28 (at 34). I mean... Shaq, despite his physical gifts, really seemed to drop off fairly early when compared to some of these other greats. Part of it, I think, was conditioning. I didn't seem like Shaq put in the kind of work that guys like Jordan and Malone and Stockton and Kareem did.

And when it comes to defence and rebounding, there is no doubt that Shaq was good at both. But, I mean, Dwight Howard, frankly speaking, is better at both than Shaq was. The same can be said of Ben Wallace in his prime. Mutumbo. Hakeem. Robinson. All these guys have lead the league in rebounding and won DPOY. Why did Shaq never accomplish these things?

Shaq was, without question, something special to watch. He was a very special player. But I think we missed out on getting to see something even more spectacular. In the 60's fans got to watch Chamberlain put up crazy numbers. Then there was the Big O posting a triple-double almost every night. The 70's saw the dominance of Kareem. The 80's saw Magic and Bird (which though impressive, was not as dominant as Wilt). The 90's fans got to watch Jordan win 6 rings and league the lead in scoring for like a decade! Now we have LBJ. But the 00's... we saw a dominant Shaq and kobe (who let's face it, is just jordan-light, or jordan junior... he is a shadow of Jordan, though similar in style, he is inferior in every resepct to Jordan).

Wilt gave his generation something to talk about. Something that has not been duplicated since. Shaq could have done the same for his generation. four rings is impressive, but let's be honest, Shaq could have come away with more rings that Jordan had he put the kind of work into his game that Kareem and Malone and Jordan have. I'm not saying Shaq was lazy, or that he didn't work. Obviously he did, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to do what he has done. But looking back on Shaq's career, I just have to say: He did not reach his potential. There was more in him to give than what he ended up giving. and we missed out on something special. Like Wilt, Shaq could have put up numbers that would have had people talking for generations. Like Jordan and Russell, he coudl have won in a way that would be untouched for generations. What he did was amazing. But he could have been even better. He should be up there with Kareem and Russell and Chamberlain for career rebounds, instead of just barely being ahead of Buck Williams.

Thoughts?

PurpleJesus
10-06-2012, 02:46 PM
Why stop at Shaq? Jordan should have had more championships, and MVP awards.

Jesse2272
10-06-2012, 02:48 PM
He should sign with the Knicks

ChiSox219
10-06-2012, 02:53 PM
Career totals involve too much luck for me to really care. Shaq at his peak was as dominant as anyone I've ever seen, including Jordan.

Bruno
10-06-2012, 02:54 PM
on offense and rebounding yes. defense, i'd say not quite. Jackson has a quote on it some where.

JasonJohnHorn
10-06-2012, 02:59 PM
Why stop at Shaq? Jordan should have had more championships, and MVP awards.

Jordan may have been able to win more had he not retired so early and taken time to come back, but I think it is fair to say that Jordan, when he was playing, played to his full potential. Jordan, at first, got by on his athleticism, but QUICKLY learned there was more to the game than that and put together a post game, a fade-away jumper that was unstoppable and three-point shot that was consistent and demanded to be guarded and he was perhaps the greatest defensive shooting guard of all time (please note that he DID win the DPOY and was on the All-Defensive first team NINE times! He was all the All-NBA 2nd team as a rookie! And the All-NBA First team I think 10 times... Jordan, when he played, played to his full potential. I don't think Jordan could have done anything to make himself more dominant than he was, outside fo not retiring. And his conditioning allowed him to play at an All-Star level at the age of 39! Shaq was not even playing at 39, and when he was playing at 38, he was far from an All-star.

And players do not control MVP awards. I did not fault Shaq for not winning more of them. The voters frankly get bored of voting for the same player over and over again, otherwise Jordan would have 10 MVP awards instead of 5.

Jordan was the best at his position on both ends of the floor the entire time he was in a Bulls uniform. Shaq could not say that about himself for a single season.

mdm692
10-06-2012, 03:01 PM
Why stop at Shaq? Jordan should have had more championships, and MVP awards.

How can you say that about Jordan. He got bored of bball can you blame him. Its almost a given a 6-peat would of happened had he not retired the first time. Also MJ kept producing at a high rate until he retired. If you want compare them by age there is no case against Jordan.

mdm692
10-06-2012, 03:03 PM
Jordan may have been able to win more had he not retired so early and taken time to come back, but I think it is fair to say that Jordan, when he was playing, played to his full potential. Jordan, at first, got by on his athleticism, but QUICKLY learned there was more to the game than that and put together a post game, a fade-away jumper that was unstoppable and three-point shot that was consistent and demanded to be guarded and he was perhaps the greatest defensive shooting guard of all time (please note that he DID win the DPOY and was on the All-Defensive first team NINE times! He was all the All-NBA 2nd team as a rookie! And the All-NBA First team I think 10 times... Jordan, when he played, played to his full potential. I don't think Jordan could have done anything to make himself more dominant than he was, outside fo not retiring. And his conditioning allowed him to play at an All-Star level at the age of 39! Shaq was not even playing at 39, and when he was playing at 38, he was far from an All-star.

And players do not control MVP awards. I did not fault Shaq for not winning more of them. The voters frankly get bored of voting for the same player over and over again, otherwise Jordan would have 10 MVP awards instead of 5.

Jordan was the best at his position on both ends of the floor the entire time he was in a Bulls uniform. Shaq could not say that about himself for a single season.

Exactly what I was thinking but lazyness got the best of me.

PurpleJesus
10-06-2012, 03:03 PM
How can you say that about Jordan. He got bored of bball can you blame him. Its almost a given a 6-peat would of happened had he not retired the first time. Also MJ kept producing at a high rate until he retired. If you want compare them by age there is no case against Jordan.

It was a joke to show the failed logic of the topic.

justinnum1
10-06-2012, 03:09 PM
injuries late in his career cost him some and injuries to his teammates...in 05 if wade was healthy they probably win it all.

JasonJohnHorn
10-06-2012, 03:10 PM
It was a joke to show the failed logic of the topic.

I think you failed to point out the failed logic of the thread then, because 6 out of the ten people who have voted, seem to agree that Shaq could have been better.

LAKERMANIA
10-06-2012, 03:11 PM
Shaq did fulfill his potential for the most part, but didn't have the work ethic and became lazy after a certain point. If he had Kobe's work ethic, he could have sustained his greatness for a longer period of time..

ee
10-06-2012, 03:14 PM
He didn't but what he did was enough....everything came easy so he didn't work as hard as he should have.... Its scary to think about it though....

Chronz
10-06-2012, 03:17 PM
This holds true for pretty much all the All-Time greats bro, why point out Shaq? He could have done alot of things but Id say having the 2nd most amount of All-NBA Selections ever is a pretty decent showing for a career.

Karl Malone wasn't an instant superstar the way Shaq was so he better make it up on the back end of his career at some point.

RaiderLakersA's
10-06-2012, 03:24 PM
Does Shaq have the most points scored all time?

Does Shaq have the most blocked shots all time?

Does Shaq have the most rebounds all time?

Does Shaq have the most championship titles?

Does Shaq have the most MVPs all time?

Does Shaq have the most points scored in a single game?

Does Shaq have the best scoring efficiency all time?

Does Shaq have the most DPOYs all time?

I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. The Big Aristotle doesn't own outright any major statistical category.

Shaquille O'Neal is the most physically gifted athlete in the NBA that I've ever seen. He should have dominated in ways that made you forget guys like Chamberlain, Kareem, and even Jordan. Shaq had that kind of dominant potential.

But he didn't get there, and in my estimation, yes, that means that he fell short. When his career was over, he should have had numbers that made him the top dog in at least one major statistical category. But instead of looking down, he's looking up. Other players accomplished more.

There's no excuse for that. Not for Shaq. To whom much is given, much is expected.

Truth be told, I think Shaq, too, would freely admit that he should have done more. Legitimate arguments can be made that Shaq isn't even the best big man of his era. Tim Duncan has a legitimate claim there. You can't be the most dominant, and yet not be the most dominant. Shaq fell short. He did well for a great athlete, but we expected more of him.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2012, 03:25 PM
Well, Shaq got a bit lazy at a point in time where he could have still dominated, but he fulfilled it to a large degree. Then again, how many great players were simply the BEST they could have been?

RaiderLakersA's
10-06-2012, 03:42 PM
Well, Shaq got a bit lazy at a point in time where he could have still dominated, but he fulfilled it to a large degree. Then again, how many great players were simply the BEST they could have been?

It's an unforgivable sin to simply shut down your own talent. No, not all greats were the BEST that they could have been, but it wasn't for wont of effort. I've seen Bird and Magic and so many others on cruise control, but it was more for respite and conservation. It was never because they presumed to be the best.

Shaq, on the other hand, knew that he was the greatest center of his era and eventually that went to his head. He'd coast during the season, and then turn it on in the playoffs in order to win the accolades. (Which was one of the many reasons why he and Kobe clashed.) Eventually, his lack of commitment started showing up in his conditioning. Poor was the common assessment...from his coaches and fellow players. And then the injuries occured more and more frequently, sealing his fate.

JasonJohnHorn
10-06-2012, 03:43 PM
Well, Shaq got a bit lazy at a point in time where he could have still dominated, but he fulfilled it to a large degree. Then again, how many great players were simply the BEST they could have been?

I think most of the truly great player played to their full potential. Hakeem. Robinson. They didn't age as well as Kareem and Malone, but they were still out there and I beleive both played to their full potential. I think the same can be said of Stockton and Malone and Kareem. Magic and Bird to. Some may say that Bird could have worked out more, he didn't come across as a guy who spent a lot of time in the gym, but he also was very gifted athletically and he did a lot with what he had. Wilt, Russell. I think they played to their full potential. I think Jordan played to his full potential. Pippen as well. I think Thomas and Dumars played to their full potential. I see Iverson go out there and leave it all on the floor and then I see Shaq and think: WOW! If Iverson was in that body, THEN we'd see something special.

There are players who I don't think reach their full potential. Derrick Coleman for example. I honeslty believe that Coleman had the physical gifts and the skill to be the best PF or C of all time (he played PF mostly, but by the end of his career he was playing C a lot because the league had gotten a little smaller).

I watch Kobe and Wade and LBJ. Durant, Rose. These guys leave it all out on the floor. Dwight Howard even, who is limited on offence, works at improving that part of his game. He puts a lot of time in. Garnett. Duncan. I think all these guys have palyed to their full potential.

Bynum. No. Bynum has SO much more to give to the game than what he has been giving. Brook Lopez? No. I don't see him giving all he's got. He obviously likes to play offence and is good at that, but he can be a double-digit rebounder and good defender if he puts in the work. I'd say the same for Stanley Roberts. He could have been one of the most dominant centers of all time. I mean, in Shaq's first year at LSU he played POWER FORWARD because Robrerts was that much bigger than Shaq. Seriously? T-Mac, whose career was obviously curt tailed by injury, put his all into every game he played. Vince Carter? Not so much. Vince Carter could be in the conversation with Kobe Bryant if he had the drive of Kalr Malone or Kobe or Jordan. Instead, he's going to go down with the likes of Adrian Dantley and Mark Aguire (if that).

There are players who play to their full potential. A lot of them. And their are guys that rely on their pysical gifts. Shaq is in the latter catagory for me.

Andrew32
10-06-2012, 03:49 PM
Shaq did fulfill his potential for the most part, but didn't have the work ethic and became lazy after a certain point. If he had Kobe's work ethic, he could have sustained his greatness for a longer period of time..
Wow I actually agree with you.
Shaq had a pretty good work ethic.

He was absolutely ripped/shredded from 93-00 and he was in good shape for an athlete in 01, 02 and 04-06.

Towards the end of his career if he had dedicated himself to staying in better shape in the off season could he have perhaps prevented some injuries and lengthened his Prime years and improved the overall value of his career?

Possibly but for the most part I feel he reached his potential.

We are talking about a Top 5 All-Time player who's playoff career is similar in value to Jordan's.

He is Top 2 in playoff production.
More Super-Star level years then anyone.

Most consistent performer ever with probably the least individual failures in his Young/Prime years compared to the other ATGreats.

Shaq is a GOAT candidate and a Top 5 player.

Perhaps he could have been the clear cut GOAT with some better lucky and with a slightly better work ethic towards the end of his career but what he accomplished was amazing enough in my book.

Lakersfanla24
10-06-2012, 03:50 PM
I dont believe he did, he had all the tools to be #2 on the top players of all time list. His lack of work ethic and his terrible freethrow shooting are why he didnt even crack the top 5 IMO. Shaq in his prime was one of the most dominant to ever play the game unfortunately he let that potential go to waste. although he did have an amazing career, it could have been sooo much better......

Andrew32
10-06-2012, 04:05 PM
Shaq

#2 All-Time in playoff production after Micheal Jordan.
#2 All-Time in playoff PER after Jordan

#6 All-Time in playoff points.
#1 All-Time in FG% in the regular season and in the playoffs compared to any other Top 20 player.

#3 All-Time in playoff rebounds after Wilt and Russell
#1 All-Time in playoff offensive rebounds.
#3 All-Time in TRB% in the playoffs after Wilt and Russell (when compared to the Top 5 GOAT C's)

#1 in AST% (when compared to the Top 5 GOAT C's)

#4 All-Time in playoff blocks (only 17 behind the #2)
#2 All-Time in playoff block% behind Hakeem

3 Championships as the clear and undisputed #1 (2nd only to Jordan/Russell)
Led 5 teams to the Finals as the clear and undisputed #1 (2nd only to Jordan/Russell)

GOAT Finals performer

#4 All-Time in playoff WShares behind Jabbar/Magic/Jordan



#1.
Jordan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32
Top 5 : 30.16
Top 7 : 29.61
Top 10 : 28.89
Top 13 : 28.6

------------------------------------------------------------

#2.
Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52
Top 13 : 26.55
14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33

Shaq had arguably the greatest career in NBA history in terms of career value/performances/longevity.
He got jobbed for a few MVP's (00, 01 and maybe 98 / 05) and could have won more titles with better luck / supporting casts.

He is right up there with Jordan, Kareem, Russell and Magic

AddiX
10-06-2012, 04:36 PM
Shaq did not reach his potential and here's why.

Free throws.

At one point he was learning then potty shot free throw but stopped because it was bad for his image. HAd shaq learned to hit free throws at a close to average rate, guy would of averaged 45 pts a game, w the help of free throws or with the end of hack a shaq.

That was his only weakness and only thing that stopped his top potential. If he hits free throws IMO he's the best player of the modern era.

Andrew32
10-06-2012, 05:00 PM
Shaq did not reach his potential and here's why.

Free throws.

At one point he was learning then potty shot free throw but stopped because it was bad for his image. HAd shaq learned to hit free throws at a close to average rate, guy would of averaged 45 pts a game, w the help of free throws or with the end of hack a shaq.

That was his only weakness and only thing that stopped his top potential. If he hits free throws IMO he's the best player of the modern era.

He had years like 02 and 03 where he shot them very well.
I wonder why he regressed after that.

It wasn't such a big deal though.
Hack-A-**** was not an effective steategy
In reality it only cost him 2-3ppg on average and didn't make him that much less effective of a player.

Il Mago50
10-06-2012, 05:03 PM
If Shaq didn't constantly have weight issues and worry about so many things outside of ball and actually fully dedicated himself to ball like a guy like Durant, Jordan, Kobe, etc. have done, I believe Shaq would've been the greatest player of all time.

Think about it...we are all blown away by Lebron physically but even he has guys that can match up with him (Artest, Deng, Iguodala)...

Now reminisce in a 7'1, 300-350 lb man that could jump through the gym, was as strong as an ox, has lightning quick feet for a guy his size. Name me five players in the history of the NBA that could slow that down. It's very tough and slowing that Shaq down would be a massive night nonetheless.

If Shaq had dedicated himself, he would probably have been putting up 30+ PPG each and every season. The one season that he had a shooting coach help him on his free throw shooting, he went up to 60-65% from the stripe.

If you combined Shaq's physical talents which are the greatest of all time (that size/power/athleticism/quickness combo) and you gave him the competitive drive and dedication of a Kobe, I believe Shaq probably would have won 8-10 rings and probably wouldn't have missed so many games so the all-time scoring mark probably would've been in reach as well.

It's a what if, but I believe that he squandered his talent for what he could have been. He's still the greatest center of all time, but he missed out on the opportunity to be the greatest.

Raph12
10-06-2012, 05:22 PM
With his size, athleticism, iq and skill set; he could've been the greatest player of all time... So no, he did not reach his potential.

seikou8
10-06-2012, 05:31 PM
how many guys are the best they can be not many. he was one of most dominate centersand players of all time he could shot better from the line but he won 4 chips its sad that he only won one mvp.

IndyRealist
10-06-2012, 05:32 PM
Shaq was a wall defensively, but he just wasn't mobile enough post-Orlando to be DPOY. If you look at a guy like Mutombo who specialized in shot blocking, yes he was tall but he was agile for his size and had excellent timing. Shaq just had too much bulk to be consistnet shot blocker without fouling.

Shaq is up with the all time greats because he was just unstoppable offensively. He was bigger, stronger, and meaner on that end than everyone else. If you let Shaq catch the ball within 10ft of the basket, you might as well just get out of the way. They had to change RULES because of him, plural. So yes, he lived up to his potential. He just didn't have the potential to be all-world, defensively.

ldawg
10-06-2012, 06:31 PM
pound for pound i always thought Shaq under achieve as a player. For part of his career he was not in shape.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2012, 06:41 PM
It's an unforgivable sin to simply shut down your own talent. No, not all greats were the BEST that they could have been, but it wasn't for wont of effort. I've seen Bird and Magic and so many others on cruise control, but it was more for respite and conservation. It was never because they presumed to be the best.

Shaq, on the other hand, knew that he was the greatest center of his era and eventually that went to his head. He'd coast during the season, and then turn it on in the playoffs in order to win the accolades. (Which was one of the many reasons why he and Kobe clashed.) Eventually, his lack of commitment started showing up in his conditioning. Poor was the common assessment...from his coaches and fellow players. And then the injuries occured more and more frequently, sealing his fate.

I don't disagree with any of this. At all. You basically expanded on my thoughts about Shaq. Why, at age 33, did he just throw in the towel when it came to conditioning and motivation? I guess he had won enough at that point, and he especially went downhill after he won a ring with the Heat, most likely because he one-upped Kobe (at that point) and felt he was done with his personal vendetta goal.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2012, 06:42 PM
Shaq did not reach his potential and here's why.

Free throws.

At one point he was learning then potty shot free throw but stopped because it was bad for his image. HAd shaq learned to hit free throws at a close to average rate, guy would of averaged 45 pts a game, w the help of free throws or with the end of hack a shaq.

That was his only weakness and only thing that stopped his top potential. If he hits free throws IMO he's the best player of the modern era.

He kept blaming them on his wrist being broken when he was a kid. Um, then learn to shoot them left handed. Couldn't have possibly gotten worse....

ldawg
10-06-2012, 06:47 PM
Tim Duncan has been the best and most skilled big man in Shaqs time. Shaq however is the most physical center that ever played the game. It was not his skills or his talents, He was just a very big player. His skills were limited. If you want to teach a young center how to play the game Shaq is the last one you would look at unless the trainee is 7.0 300+

Andrew32
10-06-2012, 06:50 PM
Tim Duncan has been the best and most skilled big man in Shaqs time. Shaq however is the most physical center that ever played the game. It was not his skills or his talents, He was just a very big player. His skills were limited. If you want to teach a young center how to play the game Shaq is the last one you would look at unless the trainee is 7.0 300+
You have no idea what you're talking about.
I find it hard to believe you've ever watched Shaq play.

Shaq is one of the most skilled post players in the history of the league.

In terms of pure post skill he might be above Duncan.

ldawg
10-06-2012, 07:13 PM
You have no idea what you're talking about.
I find it hard to believe you've ever watched Shaq play.

Shaq is one of the most skilled post players in the history of the league.

In terms of pure post skill he might be above Duncan.Dude i watched 75% of Shaq career. From Orlando to La to Miami. I did however stop watching him on Suns, Cavs and Boston. At that point he was just this big fat guy out there with limited skills now that he was no longer dominant. Skill players can still play the game after their athletic ability is gone. Shaq had turn into a liability. Morning, Karl Malone, Duncan, Webber, Rasheed, Hakeem,Ewing,etc had that fundamental skills. Shaq is much bigger and did not rely on those skill he played with pure brute strength. He was dominant with his size and strength and he used it to his advantage. The one thing shaq could do was pass out the double team. I am not saying he don't know the game but he was limit to 2ft from the basket.

Andrew32
10-06-2012, 07:24 PM
Dude i watched 75% of Shaq career. From Orlando to La to Miami. I did however stop watching him on Suns, Cavs and Boston. At that point he was just this big fat guy out there with limited skills now that he was no longer dominant. Skill players can still play the game after their athletic ability is gone. Shaq had turn into a liability. Morning, Karl Malone, Duncan, Webber, Rasheed, Hakeem,Ewing, had that fundamental skills. Shaq is much bigger and did not rely on those skill he played with pure brute strength. He was dominant with his size and strength and he used it to his advantage. The one thing shaq could do was pass out the double team.

Shaq had beautiful footwork, ball control, handles and court awareness.
He had amazing spinmoves and was adept at using all sorts of fakes.
He had very soft touch around the basket.

Again you can't ask for a much more skilled post scorer outside of maybe Hakeem.

If you're judging him by his last few years when he was a shell of himself then obviously he won't look very good.

Also I wouldn't say Shaq was easy to guard even in his last few years.
Most players still couldn't stop him 1v1 even at that point when he was an absolute shell of himself.

Remember when he dropped 50pts on Bosh in 2010 or something?

KnicksR4Real
10-06-2012, 07:25 PM
This is stupid because someone can always get better. That's the most common phrase in basketball.

ldawg
10-06-2012, 07:37 PM
Shaq had beautiful footwork, ball control, handles and court awareness.
He had amazing spinmoves and was adept at using all sorts of fakes.
He had very soft touch around the basket.

Again you can't ask for a much more skilled post scorer outside of maybe Hakeem.

If you're judging him by his last few years when he was a shell of himself then obviously he won't look very good.

Also I wouldn't say Shaq was easy to guard even in his last few years.
Most players still couldn't stop him 1v1 even at that point when he was an absolute shell of himself.

Remember when he dropped 50pts on Bosh in 2010 or something?Go back and watch the tapes of the things Shaq got away with.

ldawg
10-06-2012, 07:41 PM
You can not over look Shaq size. Yoa Ming had better skills than Shaq but he was just not physical and had no stamina. It may not seem like Shaq did not reach his potential because of what he has accomplished but ask yourself could you see Duncan, KG or Kobe being better than they have been? IMO they maxed out. I cant say the same for many other players.

Andrew32
10-06-2012, 07:41 PM
Go back and watch the tapes of the things Shaq got away with.
Ok I went back and rewatched the tapes.
I didn't see Shaq getting away with anything.
:o

Andrew32
10-06-2012, 07:46 PM
You can not over look Shaq size. Yoa Ming had better skills than Shaq but he was just not physical.
You're ignoring Shaq's beautiful footwork, handles, ball control, court awareness and soft touch.

He had gorgeous spin-moves, fakes and many other counter moves in the post to go with a very fluid and accurate jump-hook which he could use out to around 8-12 feet.

Shaq had one of the most beautiful and skilled classic post games in the history of the game.
Very few players in the history of the game were more skilled in the post.

You can't be that dominant just by being "big" that is beyond ignorant to believe that.
Yao was way bigger then Shaq how come he didn't dominate like him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBOyRGHkPL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI85iVU3xkE

Watch these videos.

xxplayerxx23
10-06-2012, 07:48 PM
He should sign with the Knicks

Greatest post on PSD ever.

AddiX
10-06-2012, 07:57 PM
He had years like 02 and 03 where he shot them very well.
I wonder why he regressed after that.

It wasn't such a big deal though.
Hack-A-**** was not an effective steategy
In reality it only cost him 2-3ppg on average and didn't make him that much less effective of a player.

Your riht and wrong, he wasn't as bad As ppl made it out to be.

BUT, in close out situations, and at the end of games, you couldn't feed him the ball the way you wanted for fear he would get fouled and miss.

Had he been a go to guy at the end of games, and had he been able to hit free throws, and warn off hack a shaq, this guy averages 40+ every year of his prime. He would of been completely unstoppable.

bagwell368
10-06-2012, 09:33 PM
He was pretty daunting on D early on, but the weight cut him back on that front.

I think his hands posed a big problem for him, they were just too big for the ball, so he couldn't shoot a J or foul shot very well because he couldn't get a good consistent spin on the ball, or even center it right on his fingers.

He took a lot of crap for not improving, but, maybe he really couldn't.

ldawg
10-06-2012, 10:04 PM
I would like to see Shaq teaching someone how to shoot. That however is not the reason i feel he did not reach his potential. That was just his weakness. Duncan was the same too but he worked on a bank shot that he made his trade mark and was then later to extend his range. Had the skills to play both pf and center. All players have a weak spot. Shaq however had limits to his game as he aged he still had no game 2ft from the basket. He never changed his game to go along with his decline ability. Skill and ability is two different things Pau is a more skilled player than Shaq but who in their right mind would draft Pau over Shaq? From a skill stand point shaq was limited. Many of the past great centers had more skills than Shaq but none was never dominant like Shaq. He was so dominant he did not had the need to and never worked on it. Shaq would go through you Hakeem would go around. Shaq dish out the most elbows and bust mouth and nose than any other center. Shaq is knocking Howard for the same reasons Kareem knock Shaq. Its their style of play. Blake griffen is getting the same slack. Shaq started off great but after he won 3 rings he started to slack off.

Lakersfanla24
10-06-2012, 10:22 PM
You have no idea what you're talking about.
I find it hard to believe you've ever watched Shaq play.

Shaq is one of the most skilled post players in the history of the league.

In terms of pure post skill he might be above Duncan.

No just No, had he been about 60lbs lighter and was able to move quicker maybe, but alot of shaqs points came from backing his fat *** into people and just simply overpowering them.

Lakersfanla24
10-06-2012, 10:26 PM
had he stayed at or close to his Orlando weight and continued refining his game, especially free throws, we could have been talking about GOAT material, such a shame and i always loved watching shaq since the moment i first saw him play....

Jenceman
10-06-2012, 10:48 PM
He should have easily been the GOAT. So yeah, I don't think he did.

Rain City
10-06-2012, 10:49 PM
in his prime yea, but even when he was on the decline he shoulda been the #1 big and he just kept getting fatter so ill say not quite.

ldawg
10-06-2012, 11:24 PM
Is their still a center that can say he was better than Shaq? That alone should answer your question. If yes that fat boy did not reach his true potential.

ink
10-07-2012, 12:53 AM
I know Shaq was one of the most, if not the most dominant players in the history of the game. He's got four rings! He's got two scoring titles. The highest career FG% of any player in the NBA. NCAA player of the year. ROY. Three finals MVPs. One regular season MVP (side note: just one? seems like he should have maybe got a few more). Three All-Star game MVPs (for whatever their worth). 15 All-Star game appearances! Nine All-NBA first team appearances! To go along with six All-NBA 2nd/3rd team appearances. Three All-NBA 2nd team appearances. I mean, he is a first ballot HOF qithout question and some (though not me) would argue the best player in the history of the game.

But I don't think he reached his potential. I note, firstly, he never had an All-Defensive First team appearance, and only made the 2nd team three times in his career. I mean, why wasn't Shaq as dominant in the paint defensively as he was offensively? Dwight already has THREE DPOY awards, and he's bound to get another five barring injury. Hakeem. Robinson. They both pulled out a couple of DPOY awards. How come Shaq never pulled that off? He never lead the league in blocks? He never lead the league in rebounding? Guys like Robinson and Hakeem, they made it a habit to lead the elague in rebounding and blocks, and showing up on the All-defensive teams. I mean, Ben Wallace was only 6'8 or 6'9 and he was grabbing 15 boards a game while Shaq was just pulling down 11 (at 30 years of age to Wallace's 28). Then there was the fall off in production. I think Kareem and Karl Malone (and to a lesser extent Moses Malone) set the bar pretty high for longevity. But Shaq seemed to start mailing in his performance pretty early in his career. From the age of 30, to 31, his scoring dropped from 27 to 21 (and I realize part of that was Kobe taking on a bigger role in the offence). Shaq's rebounding stayed around 10 a game until Miami cut back his minutes. But... I dunno..

Part of me is upset because I think Shaq relied to heavily on his physical gifts. I read Shaq Uncut and he touched on the fact that he envied Garnett and Duncan because they could face up and shoot, and he wished he could do the same. And yeah, why shoot a 20 footer when yuo can just take it to the paint and dunk it right? But, honestly, as dominant as Shaq was on offense because of his size, I don't have the kind of respect for his offensive game that I do for Karl Malone and Duncan and Garnett. Even Howard has put in a lot of work on his jumper and he's getting pretty good at it in practice (though SVG didn't seem to want him using that jumper too much in games). As much as Shaq scored, part of me thinks he should have been scoring even more, and that he should have been posting 20+ well into his mid 30's. At 35 he was scoring 13 points a game. Karl Malone was scoring 22 a game at 35. Kareem was scoring 21! Jordan was scoring 28 (at 34). I mean... Shaq, despite his physical gifts, really seemed to drop off fairly early when compared to some of these other greats. Part of it, I think, was conditioning. I didn't seem like Shaq put in the kind of work that guys like Jordan and Malone and Stockton and Kareem did.

And when it comes to defence and rebounding, there is no doubt that Shaq was good at both. But, I mean, Dwight Howard, frankly speaking, is better at both than Shaq was. The same can be said of Ben Wallace in his prime. Mutumbo. Hakeem. Robinson. All these guys have lead the league in rebounding and won DPOY. Why did Shaq never accomplish these things?

Shaq was, without question, something special to watch. He was a very special player. But I think we missed out on getting to see something even more spectacular. In the 60's fans got to watch Chamberlain put up crazy numbers. Then there was the Big O posting a triple-double almost every night. The 70's saw the dominance of Kareem. The 80's saw Magic and Bird (which though impressive, was not as dominant as Wilt). The 90's fans got to watch Jordan win 6 rings and league the lead in scoring for like a decade! Now we have LBJ. But the 00's... we saw a dominant Shaq and kobe (who let's face it, is just jordan-light, or jordan junior... he is a shadow of Jordan, though similar in style, he is inferior in every resepct to Jordan).

Wilt gave his generation something to talk about. Something that has not been duplicated since. Shaq could have done the same for his generation. four rings is impressive, but let's be honest, Shaq could have come away with more rings that Jordan had he put the kind of work into his game that Kareem and Malone and Jordan have. I'm not saying Shaq was lazy, or that he didn't work. Obviously he did, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to do what he has done. But looking back on Shaq's career, I just have to say: He did not reach his potential. There was more in him to give than what he ended up giving. and we missed out on something special. Like Wilt, Shaq could have put up numbers that would have had people talking for generations. Like Jordan and Russell, he coudl have won in a way that would be untouched for generations. What he did was amazing. But he could have been even better. He should be up there with Kareem and Russell and Chamberlain for career rebounds, instead of just barely being ahead of Buck Williams.

Thoughts?

First, that was a great post. :clap:

Second, I agree, Shaq did not reach his potential. He was too insecure to really dedicate himself for his ENTIRE career. And yes, I would say there was laziness involved.

He was a lot more concerned with the cheap laugh in media scrums than Jordan, Magic, Bird, Oscar, Malone, Wilt, or any other great would ever be.

JasonJohnHorn
10-07-2012, 09:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBOyRGHkPL0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI85iVU3xkE

Watch these videos.

I watched the videos. One was a practice shot from an All-Star game where he was being guarded by a SG. I have NEVER seen Shaq pull that $#!T in a game! But he did make Jordan look like a fool there... lol

And the other... it's a single move. One move on one player does not a post-game make.

Look... I watched a LOT of basketball. I've seen Shaq play. Phil Jackson and Shaq used to both say: people get away with fouling me/Shaq all the time. If they did that to a smaller guy the officials would call a foul. BUT, I would say it was quite the opposite. Shaq got away with a lot. Firstly, Shaq got away with a LOT of ofensive fouls. I remember specifically when he was playing Mutumbo in the finals, EVERY time he went to put up that little hook shot of his, he put his off hand on top of Mutumbo's shoulder to push down on Mutumbo and get higher than Mutumbo while keeping him down. The officials NEVER called that. It is a CLEAR offensive foul. And he got away with $#!T like that ALL the time. It was the same with Jordan. The officials fawking LOVED Jordan. They would give him a blow job on the court if the league would let them. Shaq got special treatment from the officials. Secondly he used the Charles Barkley "back-that-@$$-up" move all the time, which was NOT about foot work, it was about being 325 pounds and out weighing the guy putting a body behind you by a 100 pounds. That is not skill. Did Shaq have a little hook shot? Yeah. Did he have some post moves? Yeah. But let's not get ahead of ourselves and say that only Hakeem had better foot work than Shaq. That is simply not true. Bynum and Lopez have better foot work than Shaq. Hell... even Howard (after training with Hakeem) has developed foot work that is at least as good as Shaq's. Robinson. Duncan. Garnett. Malone (Moses and Kalr). Barkley. All these guys had better footwork than Shaq.


It's like this. When I was in grade 9 I was at the highschool gym practicing some basketball. In came a coach with a host of grade 7 and 8's to do a scrimage. He invited me to join in (he's tallest grade 8 student had about 3 inches on me, though was more built). I proceeded to completely DOMINATE these kids for two hours. I literally got a quintuplet-double on these kids. I mean. I scored at will grabbed practically every rebound that fell on my side of the glass, I got the ball to the open kids to score, I blocked more shots than I could hope to count and I got so many steals it wasn't even funny, and all while spending most of my time guarding a kid that was only a year younger than me and had 3 inches on me.

This is the situation Shaq was in. When he played, I mean once robinson and Hakeem and Ewing were past their primes, it was like watching a highschool kid go to town on a bunch of grade schoolers. It was almost a joke. It was too easy. When I was playing that night I mentioned, I wanted to win ever possession, so I did everything I could. I wasn't taking it easy on anybody. That is not the mentality Shaq had. Shaq was just like: I'm going to go in there, back my @$$ up, score a lot of points and win. And if I give up a couple possessions and some rebounds and some points, no big deal, because i will just go back and score two more. It's like Shaq knew he had the win in the basket and just didn't try that hard. If he put the kind of work into every possessions the way Iverson did and the way Jordan, and Malone did... he likely would have been averaging 40 points a game and over 15 rebounds.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-07-2012, 09:31 AM
shaq was known to be lazy, especially in Miami. i feel he could have done much more. and thats scary considering he is one of the most dominant players in NBA history..

Andrew32
10-07-2012, 09:46 AM
Bynum and Lopez have better foot work than Shaq. Hell... even Howard (after training with Hakeem) has developed foot work that is at least as good as Shaq's.
:facepalm:
After these gems I am done taking you seriously as is everyone else.

Dwight's footwork isn't even in the same universe as Shaq's... omg and the same go's for those other two.

Shaq is arguably the best passing C ever other then Walton and Sabonis.
He had some of the best footwork ever at the C position (way better then most of those guys you listed).

He had a very fluid jump-hook that he could use from any angle which was highly accurate out to about 10-12 feet.

He had a number of lightning quick and fluid spin moves in the post and was highly adept at using body and head fakes and riolling off his man.

He also had some of the best ball handling ability / ball control for a C and a soft touch around the basket.

Not to mention he had amazing court awareness / vision.

Was Shaq a power player? Yes of course he was but he was also one of the most skilled C's in the history of the game.

His combination of GOAT athleticism + amazing skill is why he was one of the 3 best scorers/offensive anchors ever.

You complain about his rebounding but he is #3 in playoff rebounds behind Wilt and Russell and #3 in TRB%.
He was a better rebounder then Hakeem and Kareem.

You say he didn't play hard on defense but he is Top #10 in career DWS (defensive win shares) and is 2nd only to Hakeem in terms of career blocks / blk% when compared to the Top 5 GOAT C's.

Shaq loved basketball and played hard on the court.
You paint him at this guy who didn't try hard but he became one of the Top 5 best players of All-Time, a Top 3 playoff performer and arguably the GOAT Finals performer.

He outplayed Hakeem and Duncan h2h and destroyed Ewing.

You really are just biased and don't appreciate him.

Also all Star players get some beneficial ref treatment but trying to say Shaq got special help is a strawman argument.
He rarely was allowed to get away with anything and he often got fouled but it wasn't called.

It is nothing like this new generation where players get calls for getting breathed on and everyone is flopping.

Also using strength + footwork and ball control to gain better position in the post is the very definition of "posting up" its not called "backing your @$$ up".
All big C's from Kareem to Wilt did the same thing but because its Shaq you'll pretend he is breaking the rules.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-07-2012, 09:49 AM
lol bynum, lopez, and especially dwight can only dream about developing footwork as good as shaq. lol

yes shaq used to bully his weight around, but that wasn't his only game. All you have to do is watch one of his games, or if you're too lazy, watch his highlights lol

TyrionLannister
10-07-2012, 10:33 AM
He did reach his potential, but his peak probably could've lasted much longer if he didn't care as much as he did about fame.

2000 Shaq was unstoppable.

Mr Grim
10-07-2012, 10:34 AM
How can you say that about Jordan. He got bored of bball can you blame him. Its almost a given a 6-peat would of happened had he not retired the first time. Also MJ kept producing at a high rate until he retired. If you want compare them by age there is no case against Jordan.

I wouldnt call his tenure on the Wizards playing at a high rate. I recall him looking slow as hell trying to guard Sprewell.

Andrew32
10-07-2012, 10:35 AM
He did reach his potential, but his peak probably could've lasted much longer if he didn't care as much as he did about fame.

2000 Shaq was unstoppable.

Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting in 1995 and 2nd in MVP voting in 2005.
Only Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Russell compare to him when you are looking at total number of Super-Star level seasons.

Could he have surpassed them all except maybe Kareem if he worked out harder in the off season towards the end of his career?
Probably but he still had amazing longevity.

Shaq from 95-97 + 94/04 (to a lesser degree) wasn't significantly less dominant then 98-03 Shaq which I consider his Peak.

JordansBulls
10-07-2012, 12:49 PM
Well statistically he may have, I think the only thing he lacked was the MVP's but that is due to him missing too much time in some years he could have won mvp.

JasonJohnHorn
10-07-2012, 02:05 PM
You really are just biased and don't appreciate him.


Firstly, the fact that the vote is split nearly 50/50, illustrates that I am not alone in my thinking. What biased have I against Shaq?

Secondly: How old are you? I dunno about you, but I got to watch Hakeem play in his prime. That was foot work. I saw how Shaq played. That was not foot work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BpUXdg237k
That video... that's the only time I've seen Shaq use foot work like Hakeem. And guys like Lopez, they don't have the size and bulk that Shaq had, so they HAVE to develop good foot work. Otherwise they aren't getting to the rim. And I stand by my statement that Howard's footwork has improved dramatically. I used to be one of the biggest critics of Howard's offensive game, but he has put a lot of work into the last couple of years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slOlB_LfB-o Look @ 0.22 Howard pulls some Hakeem $#!T on Shaq himself.

I've never seen Shaq move like that. I saw him back his @$$ up and use his weight to get position.

And i never said the guy couldn't pass.

Andrew32
10-07-2012, 04:14 PM
I've never seen Shaq move like that. I saw him back his @$$ up and use his weight to get position.

And i never said the guy couldn't pass.
Shaq used his strength + footwork and ball control to gain better position in the post.
I don't know what you mean when you get he just backed guys up.

I don't think you know what posting up is.

Shaq was a power player but he did not just rely on his size.
The reason he was so effective was due to his athleticism and skill.

Guys like Howard and Bynum don't have 1/100th of the footwork that Shaq had and other then Hakeem I can't think of many others who had equal or better footwork or skill in the post.

If you disagree then you either never watched Shaq play during his Orl / LAL years or your bias/hate blinds you.

Go watch Shaq in some old games where he does up and under type moves or some of his patented spin moves.
Those moves require so much control, balance and elite footwork to execute correctly.

Watch his feet when he makes those moves... watch those videos I posted earlier.

Shaq was amazingly skilled.
Just because he was a power player doesn't mean he would be effective without the skill, touch and control.

Shaq is probably Top 5 All-Time when it comes to footwork at the C position.
I am done with this thread but I pity you for your inability to appreciate just how amazing a player Shaq was.
Best player since Jordan and in your eyes all you see is a scrub.

peace out.

MetroMan
10-07-2012, 05:23 PM
Jordon would/should have had a 8 peat

MetroMan
10-07-2012, 05:25 PM
Shaquille's lack of authority, poor conditionining(weight wise) shortened his potential of being better and being able to play more games. He would have definitely been higher in more history stats such as scoring, rebounding and chips

Andrew32
10-07-2012, 05:59 PM
Shaquille's lack of authority, poor conditionining(weight wise) shortened his potential of being better and being able to play more games. He would have definitely been higher in more history stats such as scoring, rebounding and chips
Lack of authority?
He was one of the most respected and well liked players in the league throughout his career and everyone except Kobe listened to him.

Shaq is Top 5-6 in playoff scoring.
#1 in FG% and consistency.

Shaq is Top 3 in playoff rebounding.

He was pure muscle from 93-00 and in great shape in 01, 02 and 04-06.
You are exaggerating his conditioning issues heavily.

He rarely played poorly as an individual and when his teams did lose it was 99% of the time because his supporting cast choked or played poorly.
I doubt he could have won more then he did with the supporting casts/coaches he was given and the opponents he faced.

He didn't have much luck in that sense.

flop
10-07-2012, 06:35 PM
Shaq reached his potential for sure...you don't win 4 championships and retire the game as one of the most dominant players ever without hitting potential. Scary part is, with better work ethic he could have had an even longer span of owning the league.

AsiandudePH
10-07-2012, 06:51 PM
His free throw percentage alone tells you he didn't work hard enough.

He could've been much more, but aside from being lazy at some points in his career, I guess he was contented on being his dominant self as well.

AsiandudePH
10-07-2012, 06:53 PM
To those getting defensive, in my opinion this thread is actually saying that despite all his antics and effort, or lack thereof, he's been the most dominant basketball player EVER - which he is.

If he had the work ethic that Jordan or Kobe had, I'm pretty sure he'd have more than 4 championships and a truckload of MVP awards.

JasonJohnHorn
10-07-2012, 08:09 PM
Best player since Jordan and in your eyes all you see is a scrub.

peace out.

Peace out indeed. I dunno if you read the original post, but I CLEARLY do not see Shaq as a scrub. I see him as one of the most (if not the most) dominant player in the history of the game. I NEVER said Shaq was a scrub. I said he had one of the most amazing careers. My point was simply that I believe he could have been even more... and half the people on here agree with me.

As for his foot work... I've watched him play... a lot... his foot work was no where near what Hakeem was. It just wasn't.

heyman321
10-07-2012, 08:20 PM
Shaq never existed or even played. It was all a dream.

Im_in_Mia_bish
10-07-2012, 08:25 PM
Shaq had the talent to be a major defensive presence as well..

so he could have been much better.
thats crazy, especially since he was one of the most dominant players to ever put on a Basketball jersey.

maddBat
10-07-2012, 08:44 PM
he could have been alot better.

he was more into the cameras, lights, and fame rather than working on his game. not saying he didnt work on his game but obvi spent more time enjoying the finer things in life. cant blame him tho

JordansBulls
10-08-2012, 02:10 AM
Shaq never existed or even played. It was all a dream.

:confused:

LeonFSU
10-08-2012, 02:51 AM
I think you failed to point out the failed logic of the thread then, because 6 out of the ten people who have voted, seem to agree that Shaq could have been better.

Breaking News! This just in:

Six out of ten people on ProSportsDaily are mentally ********!

xcrisisx
10-08-2012, 04:58 AM
Truth be told, I think Shaq, too, would freely admit that he should have done more. Legitimate arguments can be made that Shaq isn't even the best big man of his era. Tim Duncan has a legitimate claim there. You can't be the most dominant, and yet not be the most dominant. Shaq fell short. He did well for a great athlete, but we expected more of him.

only title wise


he was the most dominant center and duncan is the best power forward of all time, so it's not realy that fair comparing them ;)

Steelers23_06
10-08-2012, 06:07 AM
this cant be a serious question. his best rebounding and blocking season was when he was a rookie, why do you think that is? i feel rookie shaq is the hardest working shaq we witnessed. i feel that was the only time he was pushed hard was before he was proven fighting for every rebounding and actually outjumping people instead of using his size and strength to overpower. and you couldnt say that there werent bigs we had robinson, barkley, old parish, ewing wayyyy better then the garbage we have now. in ORL you saw shaq built more like dwight running down court and everything post-magic you RARELY saw shaq run full speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DSN1KnAW-Y
just in case you forgot what it looked like ;)

lol, please
10-08-2012, 04:24 PM
No. As great as he was, he could have been better.

Vastly underrated, as great as he is considered to be, which is hard if you ask me.

LakeShowRaider
10-08-2012, 04:42 PM
I know Shaq was one of the most, if not the most dominant players in the history of the game. He's got four rings! He's got two scoring titles. The highest career FG% of any player in the NBA. NCAA player of the year. ROY. Three finals MVPs. One regular season MVP (side note: just one? seems like he should have maybe got a few more). Three All-Star game MVPs (for whatever their worth). 15 All-Star game appearances! Nine All-NBA first team appearances! To go along with six All-NBA 2nd/3rd team appearances. Three All-NBA 2nd team appearances. I mean, he is a first ballot HOF qithout question and some (though not me) would argue the best player in the history of the game.

But I don't think he reached his potential. I note, firstly, he never had an All-Defensive First team appearance, and only made the 2nd team three times in his career. I mean, why wasn't Shaq as dominant in the paint defensively as he was offensively? Dwight already has THREE DPOY awards, and he's bound to get another five barring injury. Hakeem. Robinson. They both pulled out a couple of DPOY awards. How come Shaq never pulled that off? He never lead the league in blocks? He never lead the league in rebounding? Guys like Robinson and Hakeem, they made it a habit to lead the elague in rebounding and blocks, and showing up on the All-defensive teams. I mean, Ben Wallace was only 6'8 or 6'9 and he was grabbing 15 boards a game while Shaq was just pulling down 11 (at 30 years of age to Wallace's 28). Then there was the fall off in production. I think Kareem and Karl Malone (and to a lesser extent Moses Malone) set the bar pretty high for longevity. But Shaq seemed to start mailing in his performance pretty early in his career. From the age of 30, to 31, his scoring dropped from 27 to 21 (and I realize part of that was Kobe taking on a bigger role in the offence). Shaq's rebounding stayed around 10 a game until Miami cut back his minutes. But... I dunno..

Part of me is upset because I think Shaq relied to heavily on his physical gifts. I read Shaq Uncut and he touched on the fact that he envied Garnett and Duncan because they could face up and shoot, and he wished he could do the same. And yeah, why shoot a 20 footer when yuo can just take it to the paint and dunk it right? But, honestly, as dominant as Shaq was on offense because of his size, I don't have the kind of respect for his offensive game that I do for Karl Malone and Duncan and Garnett. Even Howard has put in a lot of work on his jumper and he's getting pretty good at it in practice (though SVG didn't seem to want him using that jumper too much in games). As much as Shaq scored, part of me thinks he should have been scoring even more, and that he should have been posting 20+ well into his mid 30's. At 35 he was scoring 13 points a game. Karl Malone was scoring 22 a game at 35. Kareem was scoring 21! Jordan was scoring 28 (at 34). I mean... Shaq, despite his physical gifts, really seemed to drop off fairly early when compared to some of these other greats. Part of it, I think, was conditioning. I didn't seem like Shaq put in the kind of work that guys like Jordan and Malone and Stockton and Kareem did.

And when it comes to defence and rebounding, there is no doubt that Shaq was good at both. But, I mean, Dwight Howard, frankly speaking, is better at both than Shaq was. The same can be said of Ben Wallace in his prime. Mutumbo. Hakeem. Robinson. All these guys have lead the league in rebounding and won DPOY. Why did Shaq never accomplish these things?

Shaq was, without question, something special to watch. He was a very special player. But I think we missed out on getting to see something even more spectacular. In the 60's fans got to watch Chamberlain put up crazy numbers. Then there was the Big O posting a triple-double almost every night. The 70's saw the dominance of Kareem. The 80's saw Magic and Bird (which though impressive, was not as dominant as Wilt). The 90's fans got to watch Jordan win 6 rings and league the lead in scoring for like a decade! Now we have LBJ. But the 00's... we saw a dominant Shaq and kobe (who let's face it, is just jordan-light, or jordan junior... he is a shadow of Jordan, though similar in style, he is inferior in every resepct to Jordan).

Wilt gave his generation something to talk about. Something that has not been duplicated since. Shaq could have done the same for his generation. four rings is impressive, but let's be honest, Shaq could have come away with more rings that Jordan had he put the kind of work into his game that Kareem and Malone and Jordan have. I'm not saying Shaq was lazy, or that he didn't work. Obviously he did, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to do what he has done. But looking back on Shaq's career, I just have to say: He did not reach his potential. There was more in him to give than what he ended up giving. and we missed out on something special. Like Wilt, Shaq could have put up numbers that would have had people talking for generations. Like Jordan and Russell, he coudl have won in a way that would be untouched for generations. What he did was amazing. But he could have been even better. He should be up there with Kareem and Russell and Chamberlain for career rebounds, instead of just barely being ahead of Buck Williams.

Thoughts?

You had something going until I read that. Can't respect your bball opinion with you saying something dumb like that.

Post forgotten!

JordansBulls
10-08-2012, 05:39 PM
No. As great as he was, he could have been better.

Vastly underrated, as great as he is considered to be, which is hard if you ask me.

If he played defense like 2000 he could have been greater.

Chronz
10-08-2012, 06:05 PM
You had something going until I read that. Can't respect your bball opinion with you saying something dumb like that.

Post forgotten!

LOL wat?

xcrisisx
10-09-2012, 09:02 AM
Shaquille's lack of authority, poor conditionining(weight wise) shortened his potential of being better and being able to play more games. He would have definitely been higher in more history stats such as scoring, rebounding and chips

he was actually more often injured after he lost weight.
with the kind of contact a player like him takes during a game, you need to have some kind of weight ;).
I predict a decrease of performance for kevin love as well, if he keeps losing weight like he does now!