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View Full Version : Greg Monroe: The best player that no one talks about?



Corey
10-06-2012, 01:18 PM
I was just making a post in the trade idea forum about Monroe and I looked at the season he put together last year.

He started all 66 games, and was one of the lone bright spots for Detroit last season.

I've known that he was a solid player just from watching some Detroit games, but I never really knew how good he was.

Per36 last season, he put up ~18 points, 11 rebounds, while shooting 52% overall..This was only his second season, and he was 21 years old.

I started comparing him to the other great power forwards around the league, and I came across LaMarcus Aldridge. Aldridge is commonly viewed as one of the top power forwards in the league. I took a peek at LMA's numbers from his second season in the league and compared them to Monroe's numbers last year:

http://i.imgur.com/c5CVC.png

So, a year younger in his second season, Monroe is better defensively, a better rebounder, a better passer, and a more efficient offensive player than Aldridge was in his second year.

How good could this kid be? Why isn't he getting more recognition for how well he plays? Can he make the same jump Aldridge did?

Chronz
10-06-2012, 01:28 PM
I heard his defense sucks tho, but yes I will be watching him very closely this year. Kind of hard to prove yourself in year 1 and not getting attention that comes with highlight reel plays. For some reason its easier for us to buy into the potential of a Blake Griffin because of his highlights and market, but its harder for us to notice the silently more productive player.

rocket
10-06-2012, 01:30 PM
Monroe is better defensively

Well, Monroe isn't good defensively. So I don't know if that's true.

Chronz
10-06-2012, 01:31 PM
Lol probably not. His defensive isn't that good

Hes comparing him to a younger LMA, but I dont remember that guy so I didnt want to touch on it.

ChiSox219
10-06-2012, 01:32 PM
I heard his defense sucks tho, but yes I will be watching him very closely this year. Kind of hard to prove yourself in year 1 and not getting attention that comes with highlight reel plays. For some reason its easier for us to buy into the potential of a Blake Griffin because of his highlights and market, but its harder for us to notice the silently more productive player.

22-12-3.8 as rookie is pretty easy to buy into, though the highlights don't hurt.

Uncbball234
10-06-2012, 01:33 PM
Ill take Monroe over Blake long term all day. Not the injury risks and he can do more then dunk

rocket
10-06-2012, 01:34 PM
Hes comparing him to a younger LMA, but I dont remember that guy so I didnt want to touch on it.

Yeah I edited my post. Monroes defense isn't good. But I didn't watch LMA when he was younger either so I can't really comment on who's better defensively in their 2nd season

airforceones25
10-06-2012, 01:37 PM
Ill take Monroe over Blake long term all day. Not the injury risks and he can do more then dunk

Lol

P Harvy
10-06-2012, 01:40 PM
As far as the best player no one talks about I'd have to go with Nikola Pekovic but yes I'd agree that Greg Monroe fits into that category as well

Avenged
10-06-2012, 01:40 PM
Being a rookie-sophomore on a bad team will do that to you. Guy has major potential though.

Gators123
10-06-2012, 01:42 PM
From everything I've heard hes had a great off-season. Apparently hes has a good mid-range shot now.

Corey
10-06-2012, 01:43 PM
Well, Monroe isn't good defensively. So I don't know if that's true.

Better than Aldridge I'd say, though...Which is all I was alluding to. Aldridge is a pretty poor defender in my eyes.

Gators123
10-06-2012, 01:44 PM
Monroe is a poor help defender. His lack of athleticism is his main problem. Hes a very solid post-up defender though.

rocket
10-06-2012, 01:44 PM
Better than Aldridge I'd say, though...Which is all I was alluding to. Aldridge is a pretty poor defender in my eyes.

meh you could go either way

JasonJohnHorn
10-06-2012, 01:47 PM
Greg Monroe is solid. He's a good player. I believe he was playing center this past season though. I expect if Drummond works out well Monroe may move to PF. Statistically, Monroe is not too bad defensively (got 1.3 steals a game last year, which is pretty good for a front court player, and 0.7 blocks, not bad, but nothing to write home about). I expect his defence to improve, and he's a solid rebounder who may get better at that.

The thing about his scoring is, he's the only real option Detroit had last season, and people weren't throwing double teams at him because, well, let's face it, if they were playing Detroit, chances are they were in the lead. And it's not like Monroe was killing people on offence. He was posting in the mid-teams. Most opposing coaches will be happy to live with the highest scoring player on the opposing team only getting 15 points.

I expect Monroe to quietly play well for another season or so before he is really tested. If Drummond reaches his potential and shows some skill this season and next, it will be hard for Monroe to grow offensively because there will be two socring options for Detroit in the post. If Drummond turns out to be a bust, then Monroe will continue to get more looks on offence, but the team will still be a lottery team, and so he will continue to be overlooked.

I like the kid. He's got a lot of potential. He's certainly a better rebounder than LMA, but LMA has proved to be a versitile scorer and leader, and he was putting up his numbers (until this past season) on a playeroff team in the West, which is something more than a lottery team in the East.

Edit: It's also tricky looking at the productivety of young players on lottery teams. The teams are generally more interested in developing young talent and seeing what young players can do than winning, so guy like Monroe get more involved roles on offense. A good example of this is Lionel Simmons. He was a forward for the King back in the early-mid 90's, and they gave him the ball a lot because they didn't have any other options, and he was posting in the high teens, 17, 18 points a game (though his FG% was low) and pulling in arond 7 or 8 boards, which are numbers that aren't to far off from what LMA was doing his first few season. And the King continued to give him a lot of shots for three more seasons because they didn't manage to pick up too many great draft picks. But by fifth season he was fighting just to get minutes (and the kings at this point are still a lottery team mind you), let alone get shots. He failed to improve his FG% and when his tenure with the Kings was finished, he couldn't even get a job in the NBA. I mean, he was runner up for the ROY award, and at a time when he's supposed to be in his prime, he couldn't even get a roster spot in the NBA.

M.Bibby2.0
10-06-2012, 01:48 PM
Ill take Monroe over Blake long term all day. Not the injury risks and he can do more then dunk

lol I guess his averages of 22, 11.5 and 3.5 on 52% FG can all be attributed to being able to dunk... I don't like Blake but even if we assume he just maintains his current production and doesn't improve, I don't think Monroe will ever have those numbers.

Run&Gun
10-06-2012, 01:59 PM
When I watched him he seemed to me more like a better version of David Lee. Very crafty player on offense, good passer works on the boards. Not the best player on defense loses more to his lack of athleticism than anything but will push to fight for position and has good hands to get the steal.

IndyRealist
10-06-2012, 02:10 PM
When I watched him he seemed to me more like a better version of David Lee. Very crafty player on offense, good passer works on the boards. Not the best player on defense loses more to his lack of athleticism than anything but will push to fight for position and has good hands to get the steal.

Lee and LMA are both good comparisons, from what I've seen.

I don't know how much moving to PF is going to help him. There's a relative derth of talent at C, and he didn't have to tax his speed at all. If he shifts to PF he's going to have to defend more face-up guys who are basically tall SF's.

Catfish1314
10-06-2012, 02:23 PM
He's been the best player from the draft class that also included John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins. And this is coming from a Kings fan. I don't think his ceiling is as high as Boogie's, but he posted very similar numbers last year with more efficiency and fewer turnovers.

cantstopthee
10-06-2012, 02:33 PM
He's no better than solid. Middle tier. Could develop into a 12-7 range type guy.

Gators123
10-06-2012, 02:47 PM
He's no better than solid. Middle tier. Could develop into a 12-7 range type guy.

Please tell me you're being sarcastic. I don't see you post in the Pistons forum so I don't think you're a Pistons fan but he was already a 15 & 10 guy in his 2nd season...

Blink
10-06-2012, 02:48 PM
He's no better than solid. Middle tier. Could develop into a 12-7 range type guy.

He can come off the bench and average 12-7 lol.

His third year in the league..I think he could put up 18+ points and has a chance af10+ rebs.

Also a great passing big man. An efficient Monroe at 18-10 to go along with an improved Brandon Knight. Some good players finally on defense. Your going to see a much different Detroit Team.

Corey
10-06-2012, 02:49 PM
He's no better than solid. Middle tier. Could develop into a 12-7 range type guy.

He's already eclipsed those numbers by a good margin.

Please tell me you're just trolling.

Blink
10-06-2012, 02:52 PM
Not to mention...we never really used Monroe as our #1 scoring option for most of the season.

Bruno
10-06-2012, 02:52 PM
...he's pretty good in 2k13 :hide:

he's a guy to watch in 2013 for sure.

Phenomenonsense
10-06-2012, 03:00 PM
Yea I love Moose in 2k games. Even last year when he was 71 to start out the season I wrecked int he post. Now it's just too easy.

topdog
10-06-2012, 03:36 PM
I really like Monroe, but I will suggest a different player who is talked about even less, has been traded twice now and could be a player along the lines of Tony Parker and that is Darren Collison.

Here's the Collison-Parker comparison through age 24: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=collida01&y1=2012&p2=parketo01&y2=2007

Hawkeye15
10-06-2012, 03:52 PM
Dirk, Love, Aldridge, and many young PF's started out as poor defenders. Monroe is a great passer as well, you guys need to watch him.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2012, 03:55 PM
As far as Blake is concerned, last year was not a step forward for him. He needs to show he is worth the all world potential talk in the next couple of years.

I Rock Shaqs
10-06-2012, 03:55 PM
Al Jefferson is the best player nobody talks about.

topdog
10-06-2012, 03:58 PM
Al Jefferson is the best player nobody talks about.

People talk about him. They talk about when his contract is up so Favors can get some minutes. Seriously, Jefferson is an awesome post player, but comes up lacking in passing and defense.

Corey
10-06-2012, 04:02 PM
Al Jefferson is the best player nobody talks about.He's commonly discussed as one of the best offensive low post players in the game.

Also, not really sure if that Darren Collison name drop was supposed to be a joke or not. He's pretty mediocre.

That guy is progressively getting worse each year

topdog
10-06-2012, 04:07 PM
He's commonly discussed as one of the best offensive low post players in the game.

Also, not really sure if that Darren Collison name drop was supposed to be a joke or not. He's pretty mediocre.

I seriously think he's underrated. Everyone forgets about how he played stand-in for Chris Paul in his first year. I think he'll have a really nice year in Dallas. I guess I just don't see the point of a thread that's simply aimed at praising a single player.

heyman321
10-06-2012, 04:13 PM
Dirk, Love, Aldridge, and many young PF's started out as poor defenders. Monroe is a great passer as well, you guys need to watch him.

Um... all three still are bad defenders.

PatsSoxKnicks
10-06-2012, 04:43 PM
I heard his defense sucks tho, but yes I will be watching him very closely this year. Kind of hard to prove yourself in year 1 and not getting attention that comes with highlight reel plays. For some reason its easier for us to buy into the potential of a Blake Griffin because of his highlights and market, but its harder for us to notice the silently more productive player.

To be fair to Monroe, he's been playing out of position IMO. He's more suited to play the 4 as opposed to the 5 where he's been playing. I think if he was shifted to PF, you'd see an improvement in his defense, although he'd certainly have problems with the quicker PFs.

b@llhog24
10-06-2012, 05:02 PM
Um... all three still are bad defenders.

:pity:

IndyRealist
10-06-2012, 05:12 PM
I really like Monroe, but I will suggest a different player who is talked about even less, has been traded twice now and could be a player along the lines of Tony Parker and that is Darren Collison.

Here's the Collison-Parker comparison through age 24: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=collida01&y1=2012&p2=parketo01&y2=2007

DC was the one player who's strengths Indiana did not play to. He needs the ball in his hands to use his speed and ability to get into the paint to draw defenders. Once he does, it opens up passing lanes. And for most of last season before his slump, he was a 40% 3pt shooter. And when he's motivated, he's as lockdown of a PG as I've ever seen live. I think he felt underutilized in Indy, and so he didn't engage as much as he should have.

Indiana's wing-iso/power-post hybrid completely took the ball out of his hands. In New Orleans they ran Paul's plays for him. That allowed him to work with excellent screeners and move the defense. I'm not sure how no one on the Indiana roster knew how to set a proper screen, but it was downright embarassing sometimes. The screener would roll too soon and leave DC double teamed before he started his move. Sometimes the screener never even touched the defender. But I digress....

DC had to learn how he fit in a different offense, and did pretty well at it. The problem was that he started out extremely strong and then faded. Then he got injured and lost his starting spot, and that was that. Depending on what kind of offense Dallas is going to run, Collison could thrive. I estimated around 40% of the plays need to go through him for him to be successful, either pick n' roll, dribble drive, or the entry pass.

Jesse2272
10-06-2012, 05:16 PM
Love me sum MO

Phenomenonsense
10-06-2012, 05:33 PM
On a side note: Went to the Piston's open practice today and Moose pointed to me because I was wearing his Jersey =D

topdog
10-06-2012, 05:47 PM
DC was the one player who's strengths Indiana did not play to. He needs the ball in his hands to use his speed and ability to get into the paint to draw defenders. Once he does, it opens up passing lanes. And for most of last season before his slump, he was a 40% 3pt shooter. And when he's motivated, he's as lockdown of a PG as I've ever seen live. I think he felt underutilized in Indy, and so he didn't engage as much as he should have.

Indiana's wing-iso/power-post hybrid completely took the ball out of his hands. In New Orleans they ran Paul's plays for him. That allowed him to work with excellent screeners and move the defense. I'm not sure how no one on the Indiana roster knew how to set a proper screen, but it was downright embarassing sometimes. The screener would roll too soon and leave DC double teamed before he started his move. Sometimes the screener never even touched the defender. But I digress....

DC had to learn how he fit in a different offense, and did pretty well at it. The problem was that he started out extremely strong and then faded. Then he got injured and lost his starting spot, and that was that. Depending on what kind of offense Dallas is going to run, Collison could thrive. I estimated around 40% of the plays need to go through him for him to be successful, either pick n' roll, dribble drive, or the entry pass.

Thank you! lol I do think Dallas will be a good fit for him because they'll allow him to probe and will get him some good screens. Teams have to adjust to him flying at the basket which opens up passing lanes that he has the i.q. to hit. I still would like to see him develop a floater, but DC was one of the reasons I started rooting for Indy - I loved watching him at UCLA (I also liked Hibbert coming out of Georgetown, Paul George from... Fresno? and Stephenson before the stair incident).

Super.
10-06-2012, 05:54 PM
Lol

What an insightful post that adds so much to this discussion.

:eyebrow:

Corey
10-06-2012, 05:55 PM
He's commonly discussed as one of the best offensive low post players in the game.

Also, not really sure if that Darren Collison name drop was supposed to be a joke or not. He's pretty mediocre.

I seriously think he's underrated. Everyone forgets about how he played stand-in for Chris Paul in his first year. I think he'll have a really nice year in Dallas. I guess I just don't see the point of a thread that's simply aimed at praising a single player.I didn't say that this thread had to be aimed at one player...simply stating that I dont think Collison is anything more than mediocre.

He was a flash in the pan putting up ridiculous numbers and he has gotten worse and worse each of his first three years, including losing his starting job.

I don't see why he should be considered anything other than average right now.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2012, 06:12 PM
Um... all three still are bad defenders.

Dirk is not, Love is average, LMA is getting there. My point is, many bigs come in that are offensively ahead of their defensive game. Monroe is no different.

Also, defensive reputations are tough to shake. Dirk has actually been a plus defender for a while now, he was just so awful at the beginning of his career he got the label. Love has improved every year on that end, but has the reputation sticking with him. Monroe will get better.

topdog
10-06-2012, 06:56 PM
I didn't say that this thread had to be aimed at one player...simply stating that I dont think Collison is anything more than mediocre.

He was a flash in the pan putting up ridiculous numbers and he has gotten worse and worse each of his first three years, including losing his starting job.

I don't see why he should be considered anything other than average right now.

First off, the thread is titled "Greg Monroe: Best Player No One Talks About?" so I'm just saying it really centers the discussion around him. I think most people will agree that Monroe is very good and so it's not a very insightful subject to be centered on.

While Collison's numbers are down generally, I think he's worthy of discussion for a couple of reasons: 1.He's joining a new team where he potentially will have more of a role like New Orleans versus Indy where his stats went down and 2.He's coming off a playoffs where he had a PER of 23.

The idea I am proposing is all about how his talent will be utilized. He has fairly similar numbers at the age of 24 that Tony Parker did and a similar style/natural ability. If he is used like he was on New Orleans or in the playoffs, he is very good and has the prospect of getting better.

DubbyDubbs
10-06-2012, 07:06 PM
without going through all 3 pages. Im goin Aldridge as the most unappreciated star. Aldridge > Monroe.

With that said, I am a fan of Monroe. I think him and Drummond pairing up in the front court will be deadly in 3 years.

Corey
10-06-2012, 09:15 PM
First off, the thread is titled "Greg Monroe: Best Player No One Talks About?" so I'm just saying it really centers the discussion around him. I think most people will agree that Monroe is very good and so it's not a very insightful subject to be centered on.
Then don't post if you aren't interested in discussing Greg Monroe?

Not very difficult.


While Collison's numbers are down generally, I think he's worthy of discussion for a couple of reasons: 1.He's joining a new team where he potentially will have more of a role like New Orleans versus Indy where his stats went down and 2.He's coming off a playoffs where he had a PER of 23.
Using PER in a small sample size to judge a player? Please. That doesn't even warrant a response. He's been significantly worse each of the past two seasons, while all lead to him losing his starting job.

The idea I am proposing is all about how his talent will be utilized. He has fairly similar numbers at the age of 24 that Tony Parker did and a similar style/natural ability. If he is used like he was on New Orleans or in the playoffs, he is very good and has the prospect of getting better.
Tony Parker had modest numbers early in his career because of the team he was on. Look at what his supporting cast was for the first half of his career. You think he's going to be the focal point of a team with prime Duncan and Manu? Nope.

Also, Darren Collison was just 24 years old in his third season. Tony Parker was 21 in his third season, MUCH earlier in his development as a player.

Your comparison is broken.

Gram
10-07-2012, 07:03 AM
Please tell me you're being sarcastic. I don't see you post in the Pistons forum so I don't think you're a Pistons fan but he was already a 15 & 10 guy in his 2nd season...

If he posted in the Pistons forum we'd run him over with a train.

Hawkeye15
10-07-2012, 09:32 PM
Expectations for Monroe from me this season:

19.2 ppg
10.4 rpg
3.0 apg
1.1 bpg
23.9 PER
9 win shares
0.193 WS/48

JordansBulls
10-08-2012, 02:16 AM
Well, Monroe isn't good defensively. So I don't know if that's true.

Well he can always improve. everyone isn't a good defensive player immediately.