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View Full Version : Shane Battier says refs tell him to flop



Punk
10-02-2012, 08:49 PM
On Heat Index, Tom Haberstroh digs into the NBA's new, as-yet unclear anti-flopping policy.

Erik Spoelstra and LeBron James are all for it, hoping it will cut down on, essentially, players taking slight contact from James and then hurtling to the floor as if shot.

But Heat forward Shane Battier is not on board. Battier has done his fair share of flopping -- he's aggressive and at times inventive in taking the charge. To some, hearing Battier opposes the new rule is a sign it's a good one.

Read what he has to say, though, and it's a tale of a culture of flopping that runs deeper than we had suspected -- all the way to the referees. Battier says, emphatically, that referees tell players to flop. I'm not kidding!

Here's Battier:
"The unfortunate thing about the block/charge (distinction) is that I’ve had many, many times where a ref told me that you have to go to the floor to get the call. By the letter of the law, I’ve taken a hit, but I’ve stood on my feet. Even though I’ve gotten nailed, the ref calls it a no-call. I say, ‘Ref, what’s wrong with that (charge)?’ He says, ‘You have to go down to get the call.’

"Inherently, there’s something wrong with that.”

Yes, yes there is.

Now, you might wonder why a referee would do something like that. Here's my best guess: Credibility matters a lot in their jobs. They need to be seen as making good calls. Call a charge on a guy who knocked somebody down, and you're seen as sensible. Call a charge after some contact on a drive which didn't send a body flying, and we all know what happens next: commentators, fans, everybody is screaming to "let them play."

Make a lot of calls that look funny on television, and it quickly becomes very tough to earn a reputation as a great referee.


http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/50119/the-ref-made-me-flop

Here is some video evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvMG7mZGo04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYNTmEYSMvY

Raps18-19 Champ
10-02-2012, 08:51 PM
It is still called a flop if it's a legitimate charge?

I could care less if a player flops or not. As long as the call is correct. So if it's an actual charge call, but Battier exaggerated and falls, I could care less since it's the right call.

Kashmir13579
10-02-2012, 08:54 PM
Its because this is a *****es league and any contact the players want a foul.

SteBO
10-02-2012, 08:54 PM
It is still called a flop if it's a legitimate charge?

I could care less if a player flops or not. As long as the call is correct. So if it's an actual charge call, but Battier exaggerated and falls, I could care less since it's the right call.
Exactly. A foul is a foul. No matter how you slice it.

SteBO
10-02-2012, 08:58 PM
And those youtube videos don't prove a damn thing. I could make one just as easily the other way around. To label that as "evidence" is a joke.....

amos1er
10-02-2012, 09:00 PM
On no!!!

Tzar Stern will have this infidel deal with at once. :speechless:

Seriously though, watch Battier get made an example of for this statement by getting much less calls next season and a few tech fines for flopping as well.

D-Leethal
10-02-2012, 09:12 PM
I don't think your token charge call is the type of flop most fans are sick and tired of. Selling a call after having someone bulldoze over you like a freight train while in defensive position is not something that pisses fans off. Its getting tapped on the arm and falling to the floor or flailing your arms in the air like a pansy after a slight bump......**** like that is what needs to go.

GiantsSwaGG
10-02-2012, 09:13 PM
The league was fixed obviously

Raps18-19 Champ
10-02-2012, 09:14 PM
Its because this is a *****es league and any contact the players want a foul.

But the contact is a foul sometimes. In fact, the article clearly states that even though it's a foul, they won't call it since the contact wasn't apparently enough to knock him over.

Punk
10-02-2012, 09:16 PM
And those youtube videos don't prove a damn thing. I could make one just as easily the other way around. To label that as "evidence" is a joke.....

Those are highlights of every missed call in all 5 games, commentary to prove others saw the samething and straight up close views of calls. This is the same type of footage the league uses to break down calls. You cannot be serious to tell me it doesn't prove a thing.

A joke would be dismissing it and before Heat fans say I'm hating, I am not picking on the Heat because the same applies to the Lakers, Celtics, Clippers, etc.

MetroMan
10-02-2012, 09:21 PM
Heat players flop more than penis's in prison

29$JerZ
10-02-2012, 09:21 PM
Flopping itself isn't a problem. It's the few players who literally pretend to have taken a bullet when the most minimal of contact hits them.

A Foul is a foul. Refs still call these horrendous calls either way, won't be fixed until they see what every one on TV clearly sees.

JNoel
10-02-2012, 09:21 PM
Here is some video evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvMG7mZGo04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYNTmEYSMvY

Get over it man, it's a new season. Those videos were jokes by the waay.

Avenged
10-02-2012, 09:54 PM
Nice way to twist it, Battier.

kenzo400
10-02-2012, 10:07 PM
If they can simply punish players who flop when no contact was made then it would do wonders. The amount of calls made on ******** like that is unbelievable.

TheNumber37
10-02-2012, 10:32 PM
A Foul is indeed a Foul.

If you got whacked across the forearms and then fell to the floor... is that a flop or a foul.

DoMeFavors
10-02-2012, 10:37 PM
Reggie

ldawg
10-02-2012, 11:01 PM
I think selling a foul is somewhat fine but baiting the refs is a no no.

this is a baiting a foul http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrBR_KPWVtE&feature=related

this is felling a foul http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HxZC6pc8rk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pYGtlTnWiE&feature=related

Its very hard to pinpoint so the punishment has to be harsh to get the players out of the act. Dirk was foul but the shove was not hard. so that can also be viewed as a flop.

ldawg
10-02-2012, 11:40 PM
They need a 3rd ref just to look at holding hands, pulling jersey and flopping. Let the other ref look at the plays.

koreancabbage
10-02-2012, 11:54 PM
I think selling a foul is somewhat fine but baiting the refs is a no no.

this is a baiting a foul http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrBR_KPWVtE&feature=related

this is felling a foul http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HxZC6pc8rk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pYGtlTnWiE&feature=related

Its very hard to pinpoint so the punishment has to be harsh to get the players out of the act. Dirk was foul but the shove was not hard. so that can also be viewed as a flop.

first one was a foul with the hip but i'm sure there was not going to be call if he didn't "flop"

last two were flops for sure but there are worse contact on the floor compared to those "push" fouls. if you say the Nowitzki was a foul, the Wade was a foul.

koreancabbage
10-02-2012, 11:55 PM
A Foul is indeed a Foul.

If you got whacked across the forearms and then fell to the floor... is that a flop or a foul.

FOUL.

the flop is just an exaggeration. Bring back the check rule and we will see less of these flops.

KnickaBocka.44
10-03-2012, 12:03 AM
Battier is contradicting himself pretty hard here. If he gets hit as hard as he says he gets hit then he would go down because of the contact. If he doesnt get hit hard enough to go down then it's not a charge. Plain and simple.

If he goes to the floor without getting hit hard enough to actually go down he is decieving the official and that is a flop in order to get a call.

b@llhog24
10-03-2012, 12:17 AM
Rigged.

Tumstock
10-03-2012, 05:04 AM
Battier is contradicting himself pretty hard here. If he gets hit as hard as he says he gets hit then he would go down because of the contact. If he doesnt get hit hard enough to go down then it's not a charge. Plain and simple.

If he goes to the floor without getting hit hard enough to actually go down he is decieving the official and that is a flop in order to get a call.

I agree, if he can stand up straight it should't be a foul.
He pretty much confessed he flops on all charges, I quess we'll see the next time he actually gets charged, I bet $20 he breaks down in tears.

3ballbomber
10-03-2012, 06:09 AM
Battier, you're an idiot!

Rockice_8
10-03-2012, 08:35 AM
I understand what he's saying cause if you don't go down the refs aren't going to call a charge but this is exactly what the NBA is trying to stop.

If a guy lightly bumps into you (probably not even hard enough to make you move your feet) and you flop down looking for the call then you should be fined for flopping. If a guy really does hit you hard in the chest enough to make you bounce back then you should go down and get the charge. In reality you probably could have stayed on your feet by quickly moving backwards and kept your balance.

As someone who's played basketball there are times when you actually take a solid hit in the chest that is a charge and ones that you flop for. Hopefully the NBA can distinguish the two and get the fines right.

theheatles
10-03-2012, 08:53 AM
misleading thread title...

C_Mund
10-03-2012, 09:54 AM
Battier is contradicting himself pretty hard here. If he gets hit as hard as he says he gets hit then he would go down because of the contact. If he doesnt get hit hard enough to go down then it's not a charge. Plain and simple.

If he goes to the floor without getting hit hard enough to actually go down he is decieving the official and that is a flop in order to get a call.

No man I don't agree with that at all. I'm not a massive dude but if you two-hand pushed me in the chest I probably wouldn't fall over unless you really stepped into it. But you don't have to push somebody very hard to gain an advantage over the defense, so it's a foul. If you're set on defense and a guy runs into you and gains an advantage without making a basketball move, it's a foul, period.

nickdymez
10-03-2012, 10:23 AM
The refs also probably told him to start planning a victory party because they were going to assure a victory.

Atticus Finch
10-03-2012, 10:50 AM
I've had refs in high school tell me the same exact thing. If a guy lowers his shoulder into the defenders chest and knocks the defender back a couple steps it should be a foul regardless if the defender went down or not. No refs will ever make that call though, so in a way they're partly to blame for flopping on charge/block calls.

SirSkyHook
10-03-2012, 10:59 AM
Battier is contradicting himself pretty hard here. If he gets hit as hard as he says he gets hit then he would go down because of the contact. If he doesnt get hit hard enough to go down then it's not a charge. Plain and simple.

If he goes to the floor without getting hit hard enough to actually go down he is decieving the official and that is a flop in order to get a call.

Now your speaking of a mans game my friend. All this he tapped me, bounced me back a few inches, and reff decieving tactics ar gross. Man up!!!! Bang bodies and stop all the damn complaining!!!! The only fouls should be obvious fouls. I hate this tic for tac crap in todays game. Big guys like Lebron, Blake, Dirk, and sometimes Amare have no business trying to decieve the reffs as much as they do. If a big gets pushed from a small and hit the ground they should be suspended a game and be forced to spend the time in the weight room.

SirSkyHook
10-03-2012, 11:04 AM
Another thing Mutombo played in the 90's banging bodies and fearlessly blocking shots weighing 2lbs soak and wet, Lebron, and Blake have no excuss to be flopping.

Opinionator
10-03-2012, 11:07 AM
as a 3 and D guy, Shane's justified to have an opinion; not sure it's a good idea to go to the press with it, though.

anyway, the intention of the rule is good and we've all seen legitimate charges and ridiculous flops. the rule is to try and eliminate the latter, and it's sorely needed. the diving penalty in soccer really cleaned up the game, and this rule will do the same -- particularly since it will be enforced via video review after the game, when it can be thoroughly analyzed and effectively levied.

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-03-2012, 11:11 AM
It does not say the refs tell them to flop it does say they need to fall to get the call two different things

dwilly4rilly
10-03-2012, 11:23 AM
Battier is contradicting himself pretty hard here. If he gets hit as hard as he says he gets hit then he would go down because of the contact. If he doesnt get hit hard enough to go down then it's not a charge. Plain and simple.

If he goes to the floor without getting hit hard enough to actually go down he is decieving the official and that is a flop in order to get a call.

So if I man up and take the hit from the defender and stay on my feet, but it repeatedly takes my ability to effectively defend him away, that's ok? I play good straight up D, but he keeps scoring because of seperation caused by what should be a charge call? I understand why they sell it. Good defense isn't rewarded in this league.

Da Knicks
10-03-2012, 11:23 AM
I think the nba should get rid of the charge call, that itself would solve a bunch of the problems and would make the league more enjoyable. Flopping is just annoying and takes a lot from the game, cant take the players serious when they fly after minimal contact. Get Mason, Oakley, Mutombo, Mourning, Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, the Dream to call the floppers out after every game too. Maybe then the nba would be taken more seriously its really annoying to see all of these big muscle men fall like they have being shot!

koreancabbage
10-03-2012, 11:35 AM
I think the nba should get rid of the charge call, that itself would solve a bunch of the problems and would make the league more enjoyable. Flopping is just annoying and takes a lot from the game, cant take the players serious when they fly after minimal contact. Get Mason, Oakley, Mutombo, Mourning, Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, the Dream to call the floppers out after every game too. Maybe then the nba would be taken more seriously its really annoying to see all of these big muscle men fall like they have being shot!

what? LOL that gives the upper hand to offensive players even more. First they got rid of the hand check rule that kind of disables the defender a bit. okay sure, but now get rid of the charge rule so that offensive players can run into people without having to worry a foul? Lebron would wreak HAVOC on anyone if this happened. All the bigs would have no problem on smaller players as well, if blocks were only going to be called LOL


I think half, an arbitrary figure, of the flops are exaggeration and result of real personal fouls anyway. basically saying not all flops are equal.

da ThRONe
10-03-2012, 11:44 AM
Flopping itself isn't a problem. It's the few players who literally pretend to have taken a bullet when the most minimal of contact hits them.

A Foul is a foul. Refs still call these horrendous calls either way, won't be fixed until they see what every one on TV clearly sees.

This.

Ofcouse if flopping works players will do it. Instead of the league doing something smart like putting another ref on the court and/or teaching the refs how to actually call the game right they make up stupid rules. Everybody from the Commish down wants to save face because the core of the problem is a fundmental flaw in how the game is officiated.

SirSkyHook
10-03-2012, 11:46 AM
So if I man up and take the hit from the defender and stay on my feet, but it repeatedly takes my ability to effectively defend him away, that's ok? I play good straight up D, but he keeps scoring because of seperation caused by what should be a charge call? I understand why they sell it. Good defense isn't rewarded in this league.

Get your weight up and hit the gym and you wont be pushed around on the court so much lol. Pull the chair, learn better footwork on defence, and learn to out think the player.

What your saying is if the game gets to physical for you, instead of building more strenght or becoming smarter, you should be allowed to exaggerate contact, and essentialy CHEAT by decieving the reffs.

Da Knicks
10-03-2012, 11:53 AM
what? LOL that gives the upper hand to offensive players even more. First they got rid of the hand check rule that kind of disables the defender a bit. okay sure, but now get rid of the charge rule so that offensive players can run into people without having to worry a foul? Lebron would wreak HAVOC on anyone if this happened. All the bigs would have no problem on smaller players as well, if blocks were only going to be called LOL


I think half, an arbitrary figure, of the flops are exaggeration and result of real personal fouls anyway. basically saying not all flops are equal.

I dont think any player would have fun going to the basket after he gets his butt slammed to the floor the first time. More players would have to develop a post up game and have to develop a real shot intead of just trying to attack the basket knowing a big guy was going to level them out. The bigs would be dominant again and they too would have to muscle up and act like real bigs. I know a big like Shaq would dominate the game but those guys are rare and that is why bigs dominated back then anyways so i dont think it would be too bad of an idea...

Chronz
10-03-2012, 11:54 AM
Just so I'm clear on this, its still considered a flop if your actually fouled but have to exaggerate? Not in my book

SirSkyHook
10-03-2012, 12:00 PM
Just so I'm clear on this, its still considered a flop if your actually fouled but have to exaggerate? Not in my book

If you were truley fouled you woulndt have to exaggerate.

dwilly4rilly
10-03-2012, 12:02 PM
Get your weight up and hit the gym and you wont be pushed around on the court so much lol. Pull the chair, learn better footwork on defence, and learn to out think the player.

What your saying is if the game gets to physical for you, instead of building more strenght or becoming smarter, you should be allowed to exaggerate contact, and essentialy CHEAT by decieving the reffs.

You obviously don't play basketball. I can EASILY score on a guy twice my size and strength if I am allowed to create space with a dropped shoulder. Especially if he is using good footwork and staying in front.

Yagyu+
10-03-2012, 12:07 PM
Heat players flop more than penis's in prison

Penises or penes. Otherwise it's singular possessive, implying that there's one great imprisoned penis and it lays claim to all the flops, or at least a great many flops.

Munkeysuit
10-03-2012, 12:12 PM
Battier's a huge MC Hammer fan, so with that being said I am pretty sure his statements are 2 legi....don't make me tell this joke please?

Thegame187
10-03-2012, 12:53 PM
Battier is contradicting himself pretty hard here. If he gets hit as hard as he says he gets hit then he would go down because of the contact. If he doesnt get hit hard enough to go down then it's not a charge. Plain and simple.

If he goes to the floor without getting hit hard enough to actually go down he is decieving the official and that is a flop in order to get a call.

idiot, so Shaq can never be fouled yet touching Jimmer (I was trying to think of a weak player and come up with a small white Mormon, is that wrong?) is a foul every time?

koreancabbage
10-03-2012, 01:09 PM
I dont think any player would have fun going to the basket after he gets his butt slammed to the floor the first time. More players would have to develop a post up game and have to develop a real shot intead of just trying to attack the basket knowing a big guy was going to level them out. The bigs would be dominant again and they too would have to muscle up and act like real bigs. I know a big like Shaq would dominate the game but those guys are rare and that is why bigs dominated back then anyways so i dont think it would be too bad of an idea...

but if you get rid of the charge- the only fouls would be on defensive players. That means the player attacking the basket will be slamming the defending player to the floor more often than not since there are no more offensive fouls essentially. there would only be reach in and blocking fouls - all defensive player fouls. that makes the game even worse cuz how would a defending player actually stop a player without fouling?

think again. they need to keep the charge call and get rid of the block call. block calls would prevent flopping by defensive players but keep offensive players honest since there are no more blocking calls and defensive players can be rough with them. Thus i think you got the two kinds of calls mixed up.

Shmontaine
10-03-2012, 01:11 PM
So if I man up and take the hit from the defender and stay on my feet, but it repeatedly takes my ability to effectively defend him away, that's ok? I play good straight up D, but he keeps scoring because of seperation caused by what should be a charge call? I understand why they sell it. Good defense isn't rewarded in this league.

Boozer guy gets 1 to 2 charges every game, and his defender rarely falls to the ground... so the defender doesn't always need to be on the floor to get a charge...

also, rules change. players need to adapt to the way the game is called (if it really is going to be called differently in regards to flopping), much like they adapted to falling all over the court to get charges...

SirSkyHook
10-03-2012, 01:16 PM
You obviously don't play basketball. I can EASILY score on a guy twice my size and strength if I am allowed to create space with a dropped shoulder. Especially if he is using good footwork and staying in front.

Thats crap!!! I did play ball, community, highschool, Jr college only becuase of outside elements getting in the way, and still street ball. If a player has great core balance, quick hands and feet, is a hard nose worker, and actually know how to think as a defender you would have a tuff time scoring. Thats what i was and thats how i play.

Most offensive minded player work on one or two go to moves and freestlye or set screens the rest of their game. Once you show me your go to your *** mine period. If your a player that likes to dribble Im closing the space and playing you hard on strong hand forcing you to use your weak hand. If you are the rare player that works on both Im sending you to my help everytime while giving quick jabs to at the ball on every dribble, not with the intent to steal but just to make you uncomfortable. I may get a steal I may not, but your head will be down watching the ball while defence is on the way.

If you are a post player who uses strenght, I can pull the chair, or If your right is to the baseline and your right handed Im giving you baseline and playing your right forcing you to make a move with your weak hand in a tight space.

If your a finese big Im moving my feet and useing my strenght to push you out how player play Pau. Sure you can spin off sometimes, but if your playing me your spinning to your weak hand and Im going around your back for the steal or forcing you to score with your left.

If your a shooter off screens, and the screen is set for my right and your right handed, Im following you close and If its a good screen and I barley get threw and your rising for your shot Im going for it with my left. If your a lefty in the same senario im always going under the screen to get to your left hand quicker, and if you adjust I will adjust also.

As a defender you dont have to block every shot and get every steal all you have to do is make the player uncomforatable enough to second guess themselves. I never believed I keep someone scorless, though i have on occasion in my younger days.

My coach in high school told me to play great D all you have to do is wanna stop the player more than they wanna score on you. You have to be willing to think, and work harder than that indivisual on every play. You have to be insecure as a defender, meaning you should be embarrassed if a player scores on you more than once.

He also told me to TALK lol. Get in the players head, and make sure they hear you. If Im forcing you to your weak hand, Im telling you as I do it, and letting you know how little respect I have for your abilities on that side. If you score you'll most likely hear me say " Wow!!! Is that your first time!", and look at your bench asking them the same question lol If im taking it out to inspire someone to laugh which causes you to wanna prove your self again. I also made up numbers on a players fg% in certain area's, and made false scouting reports, like if I pressure you into a jumper youll hear something like. " Dude they said if i pressure you to your right you'll take that wild *** shot everytime, lol Thanks coach!" And I loved bumping player away from the ball, pull on their shorts for no reason at all, and pinching was a favorite of mind in Jr college.

Ok Im off memory lane, but if you bump me to create space like you said for you jumper more time than not your off balance and Im jumping at your shooting hand, good luck with that shot you better work on your best Dirk impression.

Munkeysuit
10-03-2012, 01:18 PM
GASP! this game is evolving!

Atticus Finch
10-03-2012, 01:21 PM
From NBA.com - http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c.html?nav=ArticleList


A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path of a dribbler regardless of his speed and distance.



If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has established a legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored.

Defenders are entitled to their space on the floor once they've established position, offensive players are not allowed to use contact in order to root them out of their space (charge). Same principles apply to an offensive player who picked up his dribble. As a defender I couldn't make contact with him causing him to lose his balance forcing him to pick up his pivot foot in order to draw a travel. In the rules it says nothing about falling down as a requirement for a foul to be called, but because refs will use falling down as a indicator of a foul or not defenders who are looking to draw a charge are already in the frame of mind to fall down before the offensive player even makes contact. The result is a high number of flops where the defender falls down after minimal contact

JasonJohnHorn
10-03-2012, 01:25 PM
And if the refs tell him to jump off a bridge, is he going to do that too?

Seriously, people don't have a problem with players falling back on a charge, it's more guys who are flopping to make it look like there was contact when there wasn't any.

dwilly4rilly
10-03-2012, 01:32 PM
Thats crap!!! I did play ball, community, highschool, Jr college only becuase of outside elements getting in the way, and still street ball. If a player has great core balance, quick hands and feet, is a hard nose worker, and actually know how to think as a defender you would have a tuff time scoring. Thats what i was and thats how i play.
8
Most offensive minded player work on one or two go to moves and freestlye or set screens the rest of their game. Once you show me your go to your *** mine period. If your a player that likes to dribble Im closing the space and playing you hard on strong hand forcing you to use your weak hand. If you are the rare player that works on both Im sending you to my help everytime while giving quick jabs to at the ball on every dribble, not with the intent to steal but just to make you uncomfortable. I may get a steal I may not, but your head will be down watching the ball while defence is on the way.

If you are a post player who uses strenght, I can pull the chair, or If your right is to the baseline and your right handed Im giving you baseline and playing your right forcing you to make a move with your weak hand in a tight space.

If your a finese big Im moving my feet and useing my strenght to push you out how player play Pau. Sure you can spin off sometimes, but if your playing me your spinning to your weak hand and Im going around your back for the steal or forcing you to score with your left.

If your a shooter off screens, and the screen is set for my right and your right handed, Im following you close and If its a good screen and I barley get threw and your rising for your shot Im going for it with my left. If your a lefty in the same senario im always going under the screen to get to your left hand quicker, and if you adjust I will adjust also.

As a defender you dont have to block every shot and get every steal all you have to do is make the player uncomforatable enough to second guess themselves. I never believed I keep someone scorless, though i have on occasion in my younger days.

My coach in high school told me to play great D all you have to do is wanna stop the player more than they wanna score on you. You have to be willing to think, and work harder than that indivisual on every play. You have to be insecure as a defender, meaning you should be embarrassed if a player scores on you more than once.

He also told me to TALK lol. Get in the players head, and make sure they hear you. If Im forcing you to your weak hand, Im telling you as I do it, and letting you know how little respect I have for your abilities on that side. If you score you'll most likely hear me say " Wow!!! Is that your first time!", and look at your bench asking them the same question lol If im taking it out to inspire someone to laugh which causes you to wanna prove your self again. I also made up numbers on a players fg% in certain area's, and made false scouting reports, like if I pressure you into a jumper youll hear something like. " Dude they said if i pressure you to your right you'll take that wild *** shot everytime, lol Thanks coach!" And I loved bumping player away from the ball, pull on their shorts for no reason at all, and pinching was a favorite of mind in Jr college.

Ok Im off memory lane, but if you bump me to create space like you said for you jumper more time than not your off balance and Im jumping at your shooting hand, good luck with that shot you better work on your best Dirk impression.

Wow that was a great essay. You have some good points. Unfortunately, all the players in the NBA are strong gifted athletes, and if you get away with a push to gain the advantage it only takes a split second of the defender trying to regain ground/balance and it's too late. The shot is already off.

Rockice_8
10-03-2012, 01:34 PM
No man I don't agree with that at all. I'm not a massive dude but if you two-hand pushed me in the chest I probably wouldn't fall over unless you really stepped into it. But you don't have to push somebody very hard to gain an advantage over the defense, so it's a foul. If you're set on defense and a guy runs into you and gains an advantage without making a basketball move, it's a foul, period.

Right but what Battier is saying is that the refs aren't calling it unless he goes down, which is probably true. There is a difference between taking a charge with legit contact then failing down and one where you flop.

If he took a charge and the force of said charge caused him to get pushed back 3-4 steps then refs might let that play go or even call a block. I think it pretty clear when a guy takes a charge and when he flops for one.

I don't think the block/charge call is the type of call that this flopping rule is trying to target. Unless it's those guys playing post D that flop for calls. It's the other ones that are just so unnecessary and obvious.

dee279
10-03-2012, 01:35 PM
Heat players flop more than penis's in prison

You would know

Shmontaine
10-03-2012, 01:35 PM
Wow that was a great essay. You have some good points. Unfortunately, all the players in the NBA are strong gifted athletes, and if you get away with a push to gain the advantage it only takes a split second of the defender trying to regain ground/balance and it's too late. The shot is already off.

the problem is the players aren't getting pushed, they're getting touched, and then falling down to simulate a push...

dwilly4rilly
10-03-2012, 01:41 PM
Boozer guy gets 1 to 2 charges every game, and his defender rarely falls to the ground... so the defender doesn't always need to be on the floor to get a charge...

also, rules change. players need to adapt to the way the game is called (if it really is going to be called differently in regards to flopping), much like they adapted to falling all over the court to get charges...

True. Boozer is one of the few you see that called on regularly, but it is usually because he is using his off arm.

KnickaBocka.44
10-03-2012, 01:59 PM
Some of you guys are acting like taking a charge in the NBA doesn't entail putting your body in front of a 200+ pound man who is trying to get to the basket as fast as he can. If you get the correct position and actually take the hit, instead of starting to fall before you get hit, you will go down.

dwilly4rilly
10-03-2012, 05:19 PM
the problem is the players aren't getting pushed, they're getting touched, and then falling down to simulate a push...

I hate flopping as much as anyone. I am just saying I understand why they sell it sometimes. I have watched Paul Millsap take hit after hit after hit on D. He is a tough guy so he very rarely goes down. He is also undersized so he is already at a disadvantage. When a bigger guy can just bully his way to the basket, or a smaller guy can just take a quick step right into the defenders chest to get seperation and get away with it, it gives an unfair advantage to the offensive player. I admire Paul Millsap, and others who stand and take it like a man, but they get screwed on the no calls.

Nick O
10-03-2012, 05:53 PM
going to the floor on a charge isnt flopping in that sense... I dont mind that... thats always been done.. what I hate is the bull **** where guys dont actually/barely get touched and go down

Zefflin
10-03-2012, 06:00 PM
The nba and all sports are rigged, this universe and earth in gereral are rigged as well. Learn to see past it and move on. Fuse with it.

tapajafri
10-03-2012, 08:35 PM
rigged