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LoveMeOrHateMe
10-01-2012, 01:47 PM
Who do you guys think will be this years MVP? Why?

DanG
10-01-2012, 01:48 PM
LeBron or KD.

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-01-2012, 01:53 PM
Yeah call me a homer but I think either Kobe or Dwight win the MVP this year...

I think Kobe averages like 26-6-6 on 47% shooting
&
Dwight averages like 22-13-3 on 58% shooting

And lakers win 65+ games #1 record in the NBA

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 01:54 PM
It will be Lebron unless people get tired of voting for him like they did Jordan in the 90s. If that's the case, it should be Paul or Durant with Love, Dirk, Rose and Williams having an outside shot. Unless the Lakers have an unbelievable season where they win like 65+ games, I don't think Kobe or Dwight will have a realistic chance. They'll cancel each other out and I think both will see a drop in statistical production that will kill their chances.

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-01-2012, 02:05 PM
It will be Lebron unless people get tired of voting for him like they did Jordan in the 90s. If that's the case, it should be Paul or Durant with Love, Dirk, Rose and Williams having an outside shot. Unless the Lakers have an unbelievable season where they win like 65+ games, I don't think Kobe or Dwight will have a realistic chance. They'll cancel each other out and I think both will see a drop in statistical production that will kill their chances.


Wait what wasn't that said about Lebron? That since he joined wade he would never be MVP again? I doubt they don't vote for one of them because they'll cancel out if the lakers do indeed win 65+ games then no doubt in my mind that one of them will be MVP? That is if they average great stats along with that

mvb815
10-01-2012, 02:10 PM
Wait what wasn't that said about Lebron? That since he joined wade he would never be MVP again? I doubt they don't vote for one of them because they'll cancel out if the lakers do indeed win 65+ games then no doubt in my mind that one of them will be MVP? That is if they average great stats along with that

realistically anyone who thinks kobe still has a shot at mvp is delirious, dwight does.

but it'll be lebron or durant

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 02:10 PM
It will be Lebron unless people get tired of voting for him like they did Jordan in the 90s. If that's the case, it should be Paul or Durant with Love, Dirk, Rose and Williams having an outside shot. Unless the Lakers have an unbelievable season where they win like 65+ games, I don't think Kobe or Dwight will have a realistic chance. They'll cancel each other out and I think both will see a drop in statistical production that will kill their chances.

Dwight should face the same media heat LeBron did, actually more imo (forcing a trade versus leaving via free agency is worse). There should be no shot in hell Dwight wins MVP, even if the Lakers go 60-22 and he is their best player. The NBA decided to freeze out the best player from the award and give it to the feel good story in the Bulls, they better be doing the same to the 3rd best player.

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Wait what wasn't that said about Lebron? That since he joined wade he would never be MVP again? I doubt they don't vote for one of them because they'll cancel out if the lakers do indeed win 65+ games then no doubt in my mind that one of them will be MVP? That is if they average great stats along with that

The difference being that Lebron is by far the best player in the league and there isn't a close second. Also, Lebron impacts the game in more ways than any other player in the league and doesn't have to score 30 every night to be effective. Dwight isn't suddenly going to put up 25-15, especially playing next to Gasol in the post. And unless Kobe rededicates himself to playing great defense and becomes a more efficient scorer, he won't touch Lebron or Durant in terms of the league's top wings.

And personally, I don't even think Kobe belongs in the discussion at all. He's far too inefficient offensively and a shell of himself on defense. Dwight maybe if he improves his offensive numbers considerably and the Lakers make a marked improvement in their record. But even if they do, the voters could just play the "you just moved to a powerhouse team and screwed over your previous franchise, so we no longer like you" card like they did against Lebron two years ago.

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 02:18 PM
Dwight should face the same media heat LeBron did, actually more imo (forcing a trade versus leaving via free agency is worse). There should be no shot in hell Dwight wins MVP, even if the Lakers go 60-22 and he is their best player. The NBA decided to freeze out the best player from the award and give it to the feel good story in the Bulls, they better be doing the same to the 3rd best player.

Another great point that I just got done making before I saw this post. They treated Lebron like crap after "The Decision," and Dwight should be met with equal ridicule. I think the Lakers have almost no chance whatsoever of having a player winning MVP barring some sort of freak, unforeseen season.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 02:19 PM
I picked Love, just cause. I have no clue who wins, the media drives that.

Zefflin
10-01-2012, 02:19 PM
KB

the record will seal the deal

possibly D12 tho

jericho
10-01-2012, 02:21 PM
this is gonna be fun
i know its a reach and i know he has no business at the top
i just think that this yr he is going have his best yr in the league
just in case i voted for other as in melo lol
still i know this is either durant or james

pebloemer
10-01-2012, 02:25 PM
LeBron

Durant

CP3, Love, Dirk, Rose or even Rondo may be able to blur the story as Rose did 2 years ago. If one of those guys really elevates their teams beyond voters expectations, they could get consideration.

Swashcuff
10-01-2012, 02:25 PM
Between Love and Paul for me. I'm going outside of the norm for this one. Hoping a player like Love or Paul can get their hand on an MVP award this season. Can only be good for NBA IMO.

Chacarron
10-01-2012, 02:27 PM
Dwight. :)

Sinestro
10-01-2012, 02:30 PM
Chris Paul or Kevin Durant take it home this year

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 02:33 PM
Between Love and Paul for me. I'm going outside of the norm for this one. Hoping a player like Love or Paul can get their hand on an MVP award this season. Can only be good for NBA IMO.

If the Clippers or Wolves can make a jump in the win column, I think those aren't actually bad picks. But they'd have to be at least in the same vicinity as Lebron statistically. I think Love has a better chance because it's been a few years since the Wolves have made the playoffs, and if they can make it as a 4-5 seed, he'd have a great shot. But Paul SHOULD have a better chance, because he's still the third best player in the NBA IMO. The problem is that I think the Clippers would realistically have to be a top 2-3 seed for that to happen.

superior
10-01-2012, 02:40 PM
Dwight should face the same media heat LeBron did, actually more imo (forcing a trade versus leaving via free agency is worse). There should be no shot in hell Dwight wins MVP, even if the Lakers go 60-22 and he is their best player. The NBA decided to freeze out the best player from the award and give it to the feel good story in the Bulls, they better be doing the same to the 3rd best player.

ok buddy go get your tin foil hat, rose was the mvp that year and it wasnt even close

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 02:44 PM
ok buddy go get your tin foil hat, rose was the mvp that year and it wasnt even close

Yeah, I was there, I remember. Fact is, Rose wasn't a top 5 player that year, but I am not getting into that argument again, the award is over. It was a media/voter freezeout on LeBron for changing teams, and no other star emerged. The Bulls were WAY better than they were supposed to be, Rose had a great year, the media fell in love with the story.

DubbyDubbs
10-01-2012, 02:48 PM
the easy answer was lebron so i went with Love. I think the wolves are making the playoffs this season and with averages of 26 & 15.. thats mvp worthy imo

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 02:51 PM
Nobody on the Lakers and nobody on the heat should win imo. Should be Kevin Durant.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 03:00 PM
Nobody on the Lakers and nobody on the heat should win imo. Should be Kevin Durant.

Why should certain teams be included in the "do not give the MVP to one of them" convo?

Stunner
10-01-2012, 03:08 PM
This is Durant's year , i see 33 ppg shooting 51% from the field , 42 % from the 3 , 8 rpg and 2 apg.

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 03:09 PM
ok buddy go get your tin foil hat, rose was the mvp that year and it wasnt even close

If you honestly believe that Derrick Rose was the best player that season, then you're an idiot. Period.

UPRock
10-01-2012, 03:11 PM
LeBron James once again.

Stunner
10-01-2012, 03:12 PM
If you honestly believe that Derrick Rose was the best player that season, then you're an idiot. Period.

Best player no , most deserving of the award and what he had to do for the team yes. Rose carried that team the whole year and proved how valuable he was. He deserved it that year, but people will say he didn't and thats fine, only opinions.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 03:19 PM
Why should certain teams be included in the "do not give the MVP to one of them" convo?

Because some teams are stacked and there is no clear MVP of that team. I thought Bosh was just as valuable as Lebron and Wade on the Heat. Lebron being the best, but its not the "Best player in the league" award.

Lake_Show2416
10-01-2012, 03:20 PM
KD or Dwight, i went KD

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 03:24 PM
Because some teams are stacked and there is no clear MVP of that team. I thought Bosh was just as valuable as Lebron and Wade on the Heat. Lebron being the best, but its not the "Best player in the league" award.

By that logic, all of Bird's, Magic's, Cousy's, Russell's, Duncan's, Malone's, and Bryant's MVP's need to be taken back.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 03:27 PM
By that logic, all of Bird's, Magic's, Cousy's, Russell's, Duncan's, Malone's, and Bryant's MVP's need to be taken back.

No. The question was who do I think the MVP will be. Since I cant really predict the future, I just went with who I thought it should be.

smith&wesson
10-01-2012, 03:29 PM
Andrea bargnani

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 03:30 PM
No. The question was who do I think the MVP will be. Since I cant really predict the future, I just went with who I thought it should be.

ah, fair enough. First off, let me state, I think the MVP award over the years has been given to many wrong guys. I suppose its all about how you individually determine what the "Most Valuable Player" is. I think it should go to the league's best player, with a minimum criteria of his team needs to be a top 8 team or so, record wise. That being said, I can't fault someone for looking at the award as naming the player who probably did the most for his team, or, if that player went down, his team goes from a 50 win team to a 20 win team or something of that nature. That is where the Nash MVP's came from for example.

Just up to the individual I suppose. But, you would agree then, all those players I listed shouldn't have won the MVP, right? They were all on STACKED teams.

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 03:32 PM
Because some teams are stacked and there is no clear MVP of that team. I thought Bosh was just as valuable as Lebron and Wade on the Heat. Lebron being the best, but its not the "Best player in the league" award.

By that logic, all of Bird's, Magic's, Cousy's, Russell's, Duncan's, Malone's, and Bryant's MVP's need to be taken back.

Perfect response. People ***** and moan about all the stacked teams in today's NBA, but no one ever talks about some of the greatest dynasties in the league's history and how stacked they were. The 60s Celtics, 80s Celtics and Lakers, 90s Bulls and 2000s Lakers were all stacked teams with multiple top 5-10 players in the league on the same team. You can't discount Russell, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Shaq, MJ, Lebron, etc. for their accomplishments just because they played on stacked teams.

You CAN discount a player's accomplishments if they play on stacked teams, don't produce the numbers and and don't have team success. If Dwight puts up MVP quality numbers for the Lakers and they're a better team, he'll get some consideration. If his numbers drop significantly this season or the Lakers aren't any better, than he won't. Which team they play on has no bearing on if those players win MVPs or not.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 03:34 PM
ah, fair enough. First off, let me state, I think the MVP award over the years has been given to many wrong guys. I suppose its all about how you individually determine what the "Most Valuable Player" is. I think it should go to the league's best player, with a minimum criteria of his team needs to be a top 8 team or so, record wise. That being said, I can't fault someone for looking at the award as naming the player who probably did the most for his team, or, if that player went down, his team goes from a 50 win team to a 20 win team or something of that nature. That is where the Nash MVP's came from for example.

Just up to the individual I suppose. But, you would agree then, all those players I listed shouldn't have won the MVP, right? They were all on STACKED teams.

Yea im not a big fan of the MVP thing. I think for instance Lebron should have gotten a "Best player in the league" award last year. Obviously that award doesn't exist. But I think you take Lebron off that team and its Wade and Bosh, I think they could still win 50. If you take any of the Lakers big 4 off, they can still win 50. From Your earlier list, I believe that if you would have taken Duncan off those Spurs teams, they would be a 30 win team at best. Especially in the west in those days.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 03:37 PM
Yea im not a big fan of the MVP thing. I think for instance Lebron should have gotten a "Best player in the league" award last year. Obviously that award doesn't exist. But I think you take Lebron off that team and its Wade and Bosh, I think they could still win 50. If you take any of the Lakers big 4 off, they can still win 50. From Your earlier list, I believe that if you would have taken Duncan off those Spurs teams, they would be a 30 win team at best. Especially in the west in those days.

I get what you are saying now. I personally don't agree with that way of judging who wins the MVP, but I am not going to criticize you for feeling that way, as long as you are consistent.

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 03:37 PM
Best player no , most deserving of the award and what he had to do for the team yes. Rose carried that team the whole year and proved how valuable he was. He deserved it that year, but people will say he didn't and thats fine, only opinions.

Why did he "deserve" it? He didn't come close to putting up the best numbers and didn't lead the league in any statistical category. And his team was significantly better, but if anything Thibodeau deserves the credit for that as it was his dedication to improving the team's defense that made them a better basketball team. If anything, they just gave it to Rose because no one wanted to give it to Lebron and he was the best player on the best team. But don't give me that "he deserved to win it" crap, because he didn't deserve it more than any other player did. If anything, Dirk deserved it, but the award is only regular season based, so he didn't have a chance in hell.

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 03:40 PM
Yea im not a big fan of the MVP thing. I think for instance Lebron should have gotten a "Best player in the league" award last year. Obviously that award doesn't exist. But I think you take Lebron off that team and its Wade and Bosh, I think they could still win 50. If you take any of the Lakers big 4 off, they can still win 50. From Your earlier list, I believe that if you would have taken Duncan off those Spurs teams, they would be a 30 win team at best. Especially in the west in those days.

Yeah, but if that's the case, you should just call it the "best player on a mediocre team" award. Dwight or Paul could have won it last year and Lebron arguably would have won it most seasons he was in Cleveland.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 03:41 PM
I get what you are saying now. I personally don't agree with that way of judging who wins the MVP, but I am not going to criticize you for feeling that way, as long as you are consistent.

Yea. Its just that there is no criteria for the award. Nothing spelled out anyway. I dont think record should play that big of a role, that is a team thing imo. If I had a vote, it would be for the guy that has the greatest impact on his team by himself. Lebron on the Cavs was much more deserving of the award.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 03:42 PM
Yeah, but if that's the case, you should just call it the "best player on a mediocre team" award. Dwight or Paul could have won it last year and Lebron arguably would have won it most seasons he was in Cleveland.

As soon as you add the word "team", the meaning is changed. IMO. The award is for the most valuable player.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 03:42 PM
Yeah, but if that's the case, you should just call it the "best player on a mediocre team" award. Dwight or Paul could have won it last year and Lebron arguably would have won it most seasons he was in Cleveland.

In his defense, I actually have come across a lot of people that feel the same way he does. I don't agree with it, and I do bring up Bird, Magic, Russell, MJ, etc, and it usually gets them thinking, but some people just hate the concept of teams being loaded with not only the best player, but tons of talent around him. I get it, I just don't agree with it.

Bruno
10-01-2012, 03:44 PM
it's going to be a player from the Heat, Thunder, or Lakers.

those are the only three teams capable of finishing with the top record in the league, imo. Paul, a Spur, and possibly a guy like Kevin Love will get some votes, but nobody is winning it outside of those teams imo. tahts my prediciton.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 03:44 PM
Yea. Its just that there is no criteria for the award. Nothing spelled out anyway. I dont think record should play that big of a role, that is a team thing imo. If I had a vote, it would be for the guy that has the greatest impact on his team by himself. Lebron on the Cavs was much more deserving of the award.

I can live with that. Besides, I am sure Laker fans will take 5 rings over 1 MVP for Kobe any day of the week :p

Lakerfan In NY
10-01-2012, 03:45 PM
As soon as you add the word "team", the meaning is changed. IMO. The award is for the most valuable player.

True, but your team overall play weighs in on MVP. I mean: Has there ever been an MVP on a losing team?

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 03:49 PM
Yea. Its just that there is no criteria for the award. Nothing spelled out anyway. I dont think record should play that big of a role, that is a team thing imo. If I had a vote, it would be for the guy that has the greatest impact on his team by himself. Lebron on the Cavs was much more deserving of the award.
But without Lebron, that Heat team wouldn't have come close to winning the Finals last year. They probably wouldn't have beat the Pacers. WITH Lebron, that team won the Finals. So shouldn't you argue that Lebron was easily the MVP last season?


As soon as you add the word "team", the meaning is changed. IMO. The award is for the most valuable player.
But you're the one adding "team" to the award, not me. You just said it yourself in the previous post. "If I had a vote, it would be for the guy that has the greatest impact on his team by himself." But based on that logic, I still think it's Lebron. How many players in the league run their offense most of the time, lead their team in scoring and are their team's best defensive player? 1.... Lebron James. Not one other player in the league fits that criteria (and that's before you consider Lebron's ridiculous statistical dominance).

Baller1
10-01-2012, 03:50 PM
Hoping Durant can take it from Lebron this year, but probably not.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 03:50 PM
True, but your team overall play weighs in on MVP. I mean: Has there ever been an MVP on a losing team?

I haven't seen that. I get what the argument is here, I just have my own personal feeling toward the award. I just find it difficult to single out one player on a stacked team that is more valuable than another one.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 03:52 PM
But without Lebron, that Heat team wouldn't have come close to winning the Finals last year. They probably wouldn't have beat the Pacers. WITH Lebron, that team won the Finals. So shouldn't you argue that Lebron was easily the MVP last season?


But you're the one adding "team" to the award, not me. You just said it yourself in the previous post. "If I had a vote, it would be for the guy that has the greatest impact on his team by himself." But based on that logic, I still think it's Lebron. How many players in the league run their offense most of the time, lead their team in scoring and are their team's best defensive player? 1.... Lebron James. Not one other player in the league fits that criteria (and that's before you consider Lebron's ridiculous statistical dominance).

I also dont think the Heat would have won without Bosh or Wade. Im not really going to get into your second paragraph because it looks like your trying to twist my words to argue with me. I used the word team as it relates to the players impact, not the overall performance of the team.

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 03:53 PM
I haven't seen that. I get what the argument is here, I just have my own personal feeling toward the award. I just find it difficult to single out one player on a stacked team that is more valuable than another one.

Okay..... Bosh goes down in the Indiana series and Wade is playing like crap. Who steps up and leads the Heat to victories over Indiana and Boston? If you honestly are telling me you can't determine who the most valuable player on the Heat is, then you didn't watch much basketball last season.

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-01-2012, 03:55 PM
I don't see Lebron getting it again I see wade taking on a much bigger role this year because he's healthier and as for Kobe or Dwight winning it, it all depends on their record if they win 65+ games finish with the 1seed in the league and have MVP type stats witch both are still capable of then they both have a shot but the most logical choice would be Durant

Evolution23
10-01-2012, 03:57 PM
Kevin Love lol

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 03:58 PM
Okay..... Bosh goes down in the Indiana series and Wade is playing like crap. Who steps up and leads the Heat to victories over Indiana and Boston? If you honestly are telling me you can't determine who the most valuable player on the Heat is, then you didn't watch much basketball last season.

So your bringing up 5 games to make your argument? Listen man I get it, you want to bait me into making a Lebron "diss". Im not. If Bosh would have been hurt in the finals, I dont think the Heat win. Bosh means more to that team than you know. And what does the makeup of the Heat have to do with whether or not I watched much basketball last year? You mean "Heat" basketball?

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 03:59 PM
I also dont think the Heat would have won without Bosh or Wade. Im not really going to get into your second paragraph because it looks like your trying to twist my words to argue with me. I used the word team as it relates to the players impact, not the overall performance of the team.

My point is that you're contradicting yourself. You're saying the award should go the player who has the most impact on his team. But then you say team performance doesn't matter. If a player is having the greatest impact on his team, then that team should be in the playoffs. Therefore team performance should matter under your logic.

dtmagnet
10-01-2012, 04:00 PM
Bismack Biyombo, he will lead the Cats to 55 wins.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 04:01 PM
My point is that you're contradicting yourself. You're saying the award should go the player who has the most impact on his team. But then you say team performance doesn't matter. If a player is having the greatest impact on his team, then that team should be in the playoffs. Therefore team performance should matter under your logic.

Ok man, you dont understand.

xxplayerxx23
10-01-2012, 04:03 PM
Rondo :eyebrow:
Give me Lebron until they get bored with him, then it will either be Paul or Durant. Don't see Dwight or Kobe being the MVP/

dh144498
10-01-2012, 04:06 PM
I wish it's Rondo.

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 04:07 PM
So your bringing up 5 games to make your argument? Listen man I get it, you want to bait me into making a Lebron "diss". Im not. If Bosh would have been hurt in the finals, I dont think the Heat win. Bosh means more to that team than you know. And what does the makeup of the Heat have to do with whether or not I watched much basketball last year? You mean "Heat" basketball?

I'm not trying to "bait" you into anything. I'm not a Heat fan. I'm trying to prove that your logic is seriously flawed and makes no sense. Also, you don't have to explain Bosh's value to me. I get it. Without Bosh, I agree that they probably don't win the Finals, but that has more to do with the Heat's lack of talent at PF-C.

Suppose you insert a lesser player like Josh Smith or Elton Brand into that role. Could the Heat have beat the Thunder still? I think so. Or suppose you insert a lesser SG in for Wade like Manu or Joe Johnson. Do they still win? Probably. Now suppose you insert Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Danny Granger or Rudy Gay in for Lebron. Does Miami win that series? Not a chance in hell.

Or suppose you take Wade or Bosh from the argument entirely. Could a team with just Lebron, Wade and role players or just Lebron, Bosh and role players make the NBA Finals? Probably so. Could a team of Wade, Bosh and role players make the NBA Finals? No. Period.

So, CLEARLY Lebron is the most valuable player on that team. It's not close. And it's not really even a point of opinion.

ivylleague1'
10-01-2012, 04:09 PM
allen iverson the best basketball player ever !!!! he will be the mvp !!!
to nba managers, do not sign him, he will dominate the league in his quest for a championship. sign me iam younger let him go and play in china or some place else !!!

xxplayerxx23
10-01-2012, 04:10 PM
Take Kobe off the Lakers and there still stacked, No way a Laker wins MVP. Without Lebron Last year they dont go anywhere.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 04:13 PM
I'm not trying to "bait" you into anything. I'm not a Heat fan. I'm trying to prove that your logic is seriously flawed and makes no sense. Also, you don't have to explain Bosh's value to me. I get it. Without Bosh, I agree that they probably don't win the Finals, but that has more to do with the Heat's lack of talent at PF-C.

Suppose you insert a lesser player like Josh Smith or Elton Brand into that role. Could the Heat have beat the Thunder still? I think so. Or suppose you insert a lesser SG in for Wade like Manu or Joe Johnson. Do they still win? Probably. Now suppose you insert Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Danny Granger or Rudy Gay in for Lebron. Does Miami win that series? Not a chance in hell.

Or suppose you take Wade or Bosh from the argument entirely. Could a team with just Lebron, Wade and role players or just Lebron, Bosh and role players make the NBA Finals? Probably so. Could a team of Wade, Bosh and role players make the NBA Finals? No. Period.

So, CLEARLY Lebron is the most valuable player on that team. It's not close. And it's not really even a point of opinion.

Gotcha

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 04:15 PM
Ok man, you dont understand.

No sir. I believe it's you who doesn't understand. By eliminating stacked teams, you're completely eliminating some of the league's best players. Also, what defines "stacked"? Paul plays with Blake Griffin. Is that team stacked? Boston has had Rondo, Pierce, KG and Allen for years. I'm assuming that has eliminated all Celtics from your MVP discussion? And by doing so, you have to eliminate Durant, right? But how is it Duran'ts fault that Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka all became really good players? He didn't team up to create a super team the way the Celtics, Heat and Lakers have. So, do you automatically penalize teams for drafting well?

I just think that it is an awful way to view the MVP award. Because more often than not, great players are going to want to win championships and are going to team up with other great players in order to do so. By eliminating those players from the discussion, you're tainting what the MVP award is supposed to mean.

tapajafri
10-01-2012, 04:35 PM
lebron

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-01-2012, 04:51 PM
Take Kobe off the Lakers and there still stacked, No way a Laker wins MVP. Without Lebron Last year they dont go anywhere.

Really haha so the lakers are stacked and yes if you take Kobe or Dwight off the lakers and they are still a 55 win team you take Lebron off the heat and they are a 55 win team as well stop with the bs it's the truth... Lebron ain't god I've never seen so many people on one guys dick it's not even funny

xxplayerxx23
10-01-2012, 04:56 PM
Really haha so the lakers are stacked and yes if you take Kobe or Dwight off the lakers and they are still a 55 win team you take Lebron off the heat and they are a 55 win team as well stop with the bs it's the truth... Lebron ain't god I've never seen so many people on one guys dick it's not even funny

Take Lebron of of the Heat they don't win the ship last year, prob don't get past round 1 TBH. Lakers are stacked, Nash-Gasol with Dwight is the most Talent Dwight has ever played with so far in his career.

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-01-2012, 05:03 PM
Take Lebron of of the Heat they don't win the ship last year, prob don't get past round 1 TBH. Lakers are stacked, Nash-Gasol with Dwight is the most Talent Dwight has ever played with so far in his career.

They might not win a championship but they do make it to the ECF now take Kobe off the lakers and they don't make it to the finals maybe not even the WCF because the west is that much more stacked!

You're Welcome! :)

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 05:09 PM
Nash-Gasol-Dwight is still a 50 win team.

NoahH
10-01-2012, 05:36 PM
LeBron will reign MVP

xxplayerxx23
10-01-2012, 05:40 PM
:O Heat without Lebron Last year might not even get past NY let alone Indy or the Celtics. Even with Kobe I don't see LA getting past the Spurs or Thunder tbh.

FraziersKnicks
10-01-2012, 05:50 PM
No chance Dwight or Kobe win it.

LeBron's the clear favourite, followed by KD then CP3.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 06:04 PM
No chance Dwight or Kobe win it.

LeBron's the clear favourite, followed by KD then CP3.

A complete contradiction here.

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-01-2012, 06:09 PM
No chance Dwight or Kobe win it.

LeBron's the clear favourite, followed by KD then CP3.

So Kobe or Dwight don't have a chance but Lebron does?
Lol oh heat fans

daleja424
10-01-2012, 06:11 PM
Honestly... gotta be Lebron unless you are just hoping he doesnt win it.

He is really the best player in the NBA by a wide margin and he will have even more space to work with this year. SCARY.

xxplayerxx23
10-01-2012, 06:12 PM
Fraiser knicks a heat fan hmmm. Lebron Is by far better then Kobe or Dwight that is why he is the favorite for MVP/

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-01-2012, 06:16 PM
So Lebron is far better then Durant cp3 and Dwight I get he is better but when people say he's better and it's not close I lol and just because your a better player then someone doesn't mean the other player doesn't have a better chance at winning the MVP!

5ass
10-01-2012, 06:18 PM
Nash-Gasol-Dwight is still a 50 win team.

say you replace Kobe with an average SG (lets say Jrich), IMO they are still contenders as long as everyone stays healthy.

JasonJohnHorn
10-01-2012, 06:20 PM
I thought CP3 deserved it this past seasom for leading the Clippers to such a big turnaround, from the lottery to the second round of the playoffs? That's a pretty big jump. So I voted for him, because I think he will continue to help this team improve, and if they get a high finish I can see a lot of people voting for him.

Really though, LBJ is the best player on the planet, so he's the easy/safe pick. But if people get tired of voting for him, then they will find somebody else to vote for.

Stunner
10-01-2012, 06:21 PM
Why did he "deserve" it? He didn't come close to putting up the best numbers and didn't lead the league in any statistical category. And his team was significantly better, but if anything Thibodeau deserves the credit for that as it was his dedication to improving the team's defense that made them a better basketball team. If anything, they just gave it to Rose because no one wanted to give it to Lebron and he was the best player on the best team. But don't give me that "he deserved to win it" crap, because he didn't deserve it more than any other player did. If anything, Dirk deserved it, but the award is only regular season based, so he didn't have a chance in hell.

Well lets see , Boozer missed almost half the season, Deng missed time as well, Starting SG was Keith Bogans, one of the main reason's why they got the best record in the league along with Tibbs; thats why Tibbs won Coach of the year am i right ? Rose was carried that team on his back through the season and most of the playoffs until he ran into the Heat. Reason why Lebron didnt get it because people felt he had two top 20 players on his team and it obviously wasn't the best team if they didnt win that year smh. Rose MVP seaoson is so similar to Iverson's except Iverson scoring output was greater. If you watched every single game Bulls game that year you would see what Rose was dealing with and without him Bulls prob would have been a borderline playoff team that year. Facing double and triple teams and still preforming at an elite level. I stick by me saying Rose deserved it that year. I would say Howard would have deserved the MVP more than Lebron that year as well if Rose didnt get it.

YungDaSensai
10-01-2012, 07:56 PM
I voted for King James, but it would be nice to see Love get it or maybe Wade(felt he should've had it in 08-09)

Dade County
10-01-2012, 08:55 PM
Wade shows all the haters/doubters again...

Hawkeye15
10-01-2012, 09:04 PM
say you replace Kobe with an average SG (lets say Jrich), IMO they are still contenders as long as everyone stays healthy.

agreed.

superior
10-02-2012, 10:09 AM
Why did he "deserve" it? He didn't come close to putting up the best numbers and didn't lead the league in any statistical category. And his team was significantly better, but if anything Thibodeau deserves the credit for that as it was his dedication to improving the team's defense that made them a better basketball team. If anything, they just gave it to Rose because no one wanted to give it to Lebron and he was the best player on the best team. But don't give me that "he deserved to win it" crap, because he didn't deserve it more than any other player did. If anything, Dirk deserved it, but the award is only regular season based, so he didn't have a chance in hell.

25 and 7 for a pg that led his team to a league best 62 wins isnt even "close" LMAO ok kid.....you do realize who votes for the MVP right? the most knowledgable basketball heads in the world, youre not even "close" to as smart as them, now go clean your room kid

superior
10-02-2012, 10:12 AM
Yeah, I was there, I remember. Fact is, Rose wasn't a top 5 player that year, but I am not getting into that argument again, the award is over. It was a media/voter freezeout on LeBron for changing teams, and no other star emerged. The Bulls were WAY better than they were supposed to be, Rose had a great year, the media fell in love with the story.

FACT??? LMAO! u need to look up "fact" in the dictionary......now name me 5 players that were better than rose that year so i can have something to laugh at

NBA-GMaster
10-02-2012, 10:20 AM
Wade or Durant

JLynn943
10-02-2012, 10:31 AM
Demarcus Cousins :)


but really, I think LeBron or Durant win it.

JordansBulls
10-02-2012, 11:22 AM
Dwight should face the same media heat LeBron did, actually more imo (forcing a trade versus leaving via free agency is worse). There should be no shot in hell Dwight wins MVP, even if the Lakers go 60-22 and he is their best player. The NBA decided to freeze out the best player from the award and give it to the feel good story in the Bulls, they better be doing the same to the 3rd best player.

Totally different. Lebron didn't get it because he had already won back to back mvp's without a title and the team he went to was more stacked and yet they didn't win as many games as his Cleveland teams. Not to mention even guys more dominant in MJ and Shaq never won 3 in a row and they were winning titles as well.

DR_1
10-02-2012, 12:46 PM
Yeah, I was there, I remember. Fact is, Rose wasn't a top 5 player that year, but I am not getting into that argument again, the award is over. It was a media/voter freezeout on LeBron for changing teams, and no other star emerged. The Bulls were WAY better than they were supposed to be, Rose had a great year, the media fell in love with the story.

:laugh: Or maybe the media just decided to get off LeBron's jock for a year.

nickdymez
10-02-2012, 01:07 PM
Totally different. Lebron didn't get it because he had already won back to back mvp's without a title and the team he went to was more stacked and yet they didn't win as many games as his Cleveland teams. Not to mention even guys more dominant in MJ and Shaq never won 3 in a row and they were winning titles as well.

Pretty much this

nickdymez
10-02-2012, 01:10 PM
agreed.

The Kobe Hate is astronomical

5ass
10-02-2012, 01:21 PM
The Kobe Hate is astronomical

do you disagree?

Nash
Jrich
Metta
Gasol
Howard

Are you saying that they would not be contenders?

Da Knicks
10-02-2012, 01:29 PM
Melo because he will play so good this year and the new york media will help the Melo craze this season.

cuttydoesit6
10-02-2012, 01:31 PM
tom thibodeau

nickdymez
10-02-2012, 01:49 PM
agreed.


do you disagree?

Nash
Jrich
Metta
Gasol
Howard

Are you saying that they would not be contenders?

So the Heat arent contenders if you take Lebron out? Wade won already without Lebron before you speak non-sense

5ass
10-02-2012, 02:08 PM
So the Heat arent contenders if you take Lebron out? Wade won already without Lebron before you speak non-sense

What does that have to do with what i asked? Why try to dance around the question and not answer it directly? Do you think they would be contenders, yes or no? Obviously you think they dont since you think im just hating on Kobe. Am i right?

As for your question, if you take lebron off the heat I think they are still a great team. Probably 50 wins, but no way can they beat OKC and LAL. They most probably wouldnt be able to beat boston.

Kobe2324
10-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Lebrun, kd or Kobe I think anyone else is out of the running with maybe Dwight as a possibility. May come down to who has the better record....

Hawkeye15
10-02-2012, 03:03 PM
no, the Heat are not contenders if you drop LeBron. Wade obviously can not play 40 mpg and succeed for 82+ playoffs. He would basically have himself, one other all star caliber player, a really old Allen, and role players brought in dependent on LeBron's style of play. The Heat would not be a contender at all, they would be 2nd round, 3rd round and out.

JordansBulls
10-02-2012, 03:33 PM
no, the Heat are not contenders if you drop LeBron. Wade obviously can not play 40 mpg and succeed for 82+ playoffs. He would basically have himself, one other all star caliber player, a really old Allen, and role players brought in dependent on LeBron's style of play. The Heat would not be a contender at all, they would be 2nd round, 3rd round and out.

How is a team that loses in the Conference Finals not a contender?

nickdymez
10-02-2012, 04:01 PM
What does that have to do with what i asked? Why try to dance around the question and not answer it directly? Do you think they would be contenders, yes or no? Obviously you think they dont since you think im just hating on Kobe. Am i right?

As for your question, if you take lebron off the heat I think they are still a great team. Probably 50 wins, but no way can they beat OKC and LAL. They most probably wouldnt be able to beat boston.

I asked that question to prove my point. You guys over hype Lebron and under value Kobe. Even though Kobe has been there time and time and time again. And has played great. You guys are talking about putting Jason Richardson in kobe's spot.. Smh.

nickdymez
10-02-2012, 04:03 PM
no, the Heat are not contenders if you drop LeBron. Wade obviously can not play 40 mpg and succeed for 82+ playoffs. He would basically have himself, one other all star caliber player, a really old Allen, and role players brought in dependent on LeBron's style of play. The Heat would not be a contender at all, they would be 2nd round, 3rd round and out.

Ok fine, Kobe freaking bryant isnt valueable to the Lakers. You guys win again. lol. Man I've been trying to be more objective in regards to Lebron, but you people and your obssesion with him make it hard for real.

seikou8
10-02-2012, 04:05 PM
without lebron the heat would be a 2nd round exit or conference finals exit

ThunderMan724
10-02-2012, 04:06 PM
Although LBJ will probably deserve it, I cant see the league giving him a 4th MVP.

Especially with Durant's steady progression, I think he'll grab it this year.

If neither LBJ or Durant get it, I think CP3 will. Would be shocked if none of those three get it.

5ass
10-02-2012, 04:33 PM
I asked that question to prove my point. You guys over hype Lebron and under value Kobe. Even though Kobe has been there time and time and time again. And has played great. You guys are talking about putting Jason Richardson in kobe's spot.. Smh.

you still didnt answer the question.

PleaseBeNice
10-02-2012, 04:37 PM
I honestly see LeBron grabbing it again this year. He'll be hungrier than ever to repeat and do whatever he can to get another ring.

HouRealCoach
10-02-2012, 04:40 PM
It will be LeBron, Durant, CP3, Rondo, Melo, or Kevin Love

nickdymez
10-02-2012, 04:48 PM
you still didnt answer the question.

About taking kobe Bryant off the lakers and them contending in the west with Jason Richardson in his spot? Of course they will contend. But why ask me that? I originally said in this thread that no one from the Heat or the Lakers should win MVP. But you insist on bringing a Kobe argument to me. Why? Why do you hate Kobe so much? Why do you feel the need to thrust Lebron in my face? What is it with you? Are you part of the Lebron campaign or something? Is Lebron running against kobe? Why is Wade not good enough to lead a team with Chris Bosh past the second round? What if we subbed Lebron for Paul Pierce? Do you still think they wont make it past the 2nd round? If so, your a homer/hater.

JordansBulls
10-02-2012, 04:51 PM
So the Heat arent contenders if you take Lebron out? Wade won already without Lebron before you speak non-sense

This. People seem to forget this too much. Lebron needed to go play with a proven winner in his prime in order to win. He never could win as the man where he is the most proven commodity on the team.

xxplayerxx23
10-02-2012, 04:55 PM
So the Heat arent contenders if you take Lebron out? Wade won already without Lebron before you speak non-sense

They are Contenders, but they wouldn't win it all without Lebron. Wade won it all in 06,thats 6!! Years ago. Not sure if you noticed but Wade has been Injuried and not looking like the same Wade. They would win 50 games but wouldn't go as far in the playoffs.

nickdymez
10-02-2012, 04:57 PM
They are Contenders, but they wouldn't win it all without Lebron. Wade won it all in 06,thats 6!! Years ago. Not sure if you noticed but Wade has been Injuried and not looking like the same Wade. They would win 50 games but wouldn't go as far in the playoffs.

Fine, but that wasnt the argument. They bought up Kobe for some reason. And i bought up Lebron. That usually is how it works around here.

5ass
10-02-2012, 05:03 PM
Fine, but that wasnt the argument. They bought up Kobe for some reason. And i bought up Lebron. That usually is how it works around here.

only to people that are obsessed with Kobe.

nickdymez
10-02-2012, 05:17 PM
only to people that are obsessed with Kobe.

Whatever makes you feel better buddy :rolleyes:

xxplayerxx23
10-02-2012, 05:21 PM
Fine, but that wasnt the argument. They bought up Kobe for some reason. And i bought up Lebron. That usually is how it works around here.

Oh I came in after lol. Dwight and Nash auto make this team a contender Kobe is what makes them a team to fear.

TheNumber37
10-02-2012, 05:24 PM
no knick or net on the polls... hmm..
the top 10 all season should feature

LeBron, Kobe. Dwight, Durant, melo, love, Paul, iggy, d will, Rondo, Bynum.

5ass
10-02-2012, 05:26 PM
About taking kobe Bryant off the lakers and them contending in the west with Jason Richardson in his spot? Of course they will contend. But why ask me that? I originally said in this thread that no one from the Heat or the Lakers should win MVP. But you insist on bringing a Kobe argument to me. Why? Why do you hate Kobe so much? Why do you feel the need to thrust Lebron in my face? What is it with you? Are you part of the Lebron campaign or something? Is Lebron running against kobe? Why is Wade not good enough to lead a team with Chris Bosh past the second round? What if we subbed Lebron for Paul Pierce? Do you still think they wont make it past the 2nd round? If so, your a homer/hater.

Lmao you are the one that brought up lebron and the heat not me.

D-Block21-Chito
10-02-2012, 05:28 PM
If Nets make a run D-Will will be top 5 candidate

nickdymez
10-02-2012, 05:44 PM
Lmao you are the one that brought up lebron and the heat not me.

So no one bought up Kobe huh? I was talking to you and not somone else? You didnt insert yourself into a conversation I was having with another poster?

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-02-2012, 06:40 PM
I asked that question to prove my point. You guys over hype Lebron and under value Kobe. Even though Kobe has been there time and time and time again. And has played great. You guys are talking about putting Jason Richardson in kobe's spot.. Smh.

Just leave it alone man Lebron fans are muh bigger homers then Kobe fans

LoveMeOrHateMe
10-02-2012, 06:41 PM
without lebron the heat would be a 2nd round exit or conference finals exit

Same with the lakers if you take Kobe out, you're welcome

nickdymez
10-02-2012, 07:55 PM
Same with the lakers if you take Kobe out, you're welcome

Its weird cuz when you say stuff like this, heat fans say how Bosh is mediocre and how Wade is declining. But when you bring up a Lakers heat matchup, Heat fans tell you how Wade is better than Kobe and Bosh is better than Pau. Weird. But yet the Heat are a second round team and the lakers are still a championship team.

BudGrant
10-02-2012, 08:00 PM
Monta Ellis?:hide:

mightybosstone
10-03-2012, 12:49 AM
25 and 7 for a pg that led his team to a league best 62 wins isnt even "close" LMAO ok kid.....you do realize who votes for the MVP right? the most knowledgable basketball heads in the world, youre not even "close" to as smart as them, now go clean your room kid
You're right. They're not close. And if you don't believe me, go to this page and look at all the statistical areas in which players like Lebron, Dwight and Paul dominated Rose. He doesn't belong in the same conversation with those three players. He doesn't now and he didn't then.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011_leaders.html

And as far as the "who votes on the MVP" argument, give me a ****ing break. Those are the same people who gave Steve Nash two MVPs and gave Malone and Barkley MVPs they didn't deserve over MJ in the 90s. Because they aren't voting on who the best player is or the most valuable player is. More often than not, they're voting on the guy with the best story who is the most reasonable candidate to get votes.

Also, never call me "kid" unless you're like 50 years old. I'm 25, dude. And even if you are 50, you're the one acting like a child with your blatant ignorance of the league and its history.


FACT??? LMAO! u need to look up "fact" in the dictionary......now name me 5 players that were better than rose that year so i can have something to laugh at
I don't necessarily think it was a "fact" that Rose wasn't a top five player in 2010-2011, but it's certainly debatable. I would easily argue that Lebron, Dwight and Paul were better. And I could make some relatively solid arguments that Durant, Wade, Dirk and Love were all better.

MetroMan
10-03-2012, 01:46 AM
lebron or kd. maybe dwight or kobe if they on that fire

MintBerryCrunch
10-03-2012, 02:51 AM
It's gonna be bron no doubt

Andrew32
10-03-2012, 03:36 AM
I'd probably bet on Lebron or Durant winning it.

Maybe Dwight / CP3 / Wade / Bynum with an outside chance?

DanG
10-03-2012, 11:52 AM
I'd probably bet on Lebron or Durant winning it.

Maybe Dwight / CP3 / Wade / Bynum with an outside chance?

No, Wade can't win MVP's when he has LeBron James on his team. And 76ers will probably win 50 games at best. Bynum can't miss any time and he has to have beast numbers.

Munkeysuit
10-03-2012, 12:09 PM
Lebron James should win his 4th MVP award this year fairly easily, seeing as how his division got weaker, so they should win more games with him devastating the stat sheets nightly.
I would love to see Durant win his 1st MVP though, but the West looks really really tough...we shall see though, I am sure it will be one of those 2 players, but LBJ has the upper hand right now.

QueensG_718
10-03-2012, 12:12 PM
It will be either melo, kd, lebron, and rondo. I have a feeling its melos year.

JollyRanch
10-03-2012, 12:17 PM
Considering that the MVP is about "the best player on the best team", the only players that really have a shot at the award are:

Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Kevin Durant

Baller1
10-03-2012, 12:23 PM
I really only see Durant or Lebron having a chance, and by that I mean Lebron will win it unless he gets MJ'd.

nickdymez
10-03-2012, 02:27 PM
Considering that the MVP is about "the best player on the best team", the only players that really have a shot at the award are:

Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Kevin Durant

Where does it say this at?

SteBO
10-03-2012, 02:30 PM
Considering that the MVP is about "the best player on the best team", the only players that really have a shot at the award are:

Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Kevin Durant
Miami wasn't the definitive best team in the regular season last year. The criteria flip-flops from year to year. That's the way it's always been.