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View Full Version : Where do you rank Dwyane Wade all-time?



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DanG
09-29-2012, 02:02 PM
Right now. Where do you rank him?

Dade County
09-29-2012, 02:20 PM
I would have liked you to put in the poll an option for 2nd best sg or something.

JordansBulls
09-29-2012, 02:21 PM
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=635088

JordansBulls
09-29-2012, 02:21 PM
15-25 all time once you factor in peak play.

the unknown
09-29-2012, 02:35 PM
I wouldn't put him know any lf those categories.. but I voted 30-40. Its hard to gauge because he has a history of injury. He has won 2 championships but you can argue he was the second best player on both teams.. if shaq wasn't doubled he wouldn't have has those lanes to driver.. he still doesn't have a great jumper. Horrible 3 point shooter.. for a guard a pretty bad ft%.. with that said he is a top 20 closer of all time

UPRock
09-29-2012, 02:39 PM
Second best player on the 2006 championship team, are you kidding me?

Eagles4Lyfe
09-29-2012, 02:42 PM
15-25 all time once you factor in peak play.

Then why isn't T-Mac higher seeing as how his peak was pretty much one of the best of all time statistically.

Lack of titles??

AIsixersFK
09-29-2012, 02:49 PM
I wouldn't put him know any lf those categories.. but I voted 30-40. Its hard to gauge because he has a history of injury. He has won 2 championships but you can argue he was the second best player on both teams.. if shaq wasn't doubled he wouldn't have has those lanes to driver.. he still doesn't have a great jumper. Horrible 3 point shooter.. for a guard a pretty bad ft%.. with that said he is a top 20 closer of all time

He averaged 34.7 ppg in 2006 nba finals......:facepalm:

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-29-2012, 02:54 PM
top 5 nba finals performance ever.
2x NBA Champion.
effecient.
Topped the 30ppg once in his career.
Career Average of 25 ppg.
Finals MVP.
1 All Star Game MVP
8x All star
2x Olympic gold.
1 Scoring Title

top 20 fosho.

Ebbs
09-29-2012, 02:54 PM
20-25 probably

naps
09-29-2012, 03:03 PM
Top 20.

LoveMeOrHateMe
09-29-2012, 03:08 PM
25-30

DR_1
09-29-2012, 03:09 PM
Most overrated player in the NBA!!!

Sota4Ever
09-29-2012, 03:18 PM
I would have liked you to put in the poll an option for 2nd best sg or something.

Who would EVER and I mean Ever. Say that Wade is the second best sg... I am assuming you mean of all time.

JordansBulls
09-29-2012, 03:23 PM
Then why isn't T-Mac higher seeing as how his peak was pretty much one of the best of all time statistically.

Lack of titles??

Wade has actually won a title as the man and for an organization that never before.

Denero718305
09-29-2012, 03:25 PM
3rd greatest shooting guard of all time.

bbblack40
09-29-2012, 03:27 PM
Right now top 15, if he wins a couple of more rings top 10 if he can get a mvp trophy top 5. In the history the nba he ranks 6th in player efficency rating
1.jordan
2. Lebron
3.shaq
4.David robinson
5.wilt
6.wade

at the end of his career he will prolly rank between 6-10 on the all time greatest list. He is often underrated for what he does on the court. hes had an unbelieveable career and people are starting to talk as if its over he still has a lot left in the tank. at least 5more years playing at the elite level he has played at.

sfattahian
09-29-2012, 03:29 PM
Lol this is hilarious. He's not even close to top 50. I'd say top-100 at best and thats being generous. You people need to watch more of the hardcourt classics on NBA TV.

justinnum1
09-29-2012, 03:30 PM
Lol this is hilarious. He's not even close to top 50. I'd say top-100 at best and thats being generous. You people need to watch more of the hardcourt classics on NBA TV.

:facepalm:

superior
09-29-2012, 03:35 PM
LMAO!!!! these heat fans are RIDICULOUS lol Wade is top 30-40 "at best", and the notion that he is the 3rd best SG of all time is laughable, hes a shooting guard that cant shoot

naps
09-29-2012, 03:37 PM
LMAO!!!! these heat fans are RIDICULOUS lol Wade is top 30-40 "at best", and the notion that he is the 3rd best SG of all time is laughable, hes a shooting guard that cant shoot

Give me 30-35 players better than him. I know you can't so stfu!

JordansBulls
09-29-2012, 03:38 PM
Lol this is hilarious. He's not even close to top 50. I'd say top-100 at best and thats being generous. You people need to watch more of the hardcourt classics on NBA TV.

WTF!! So a guy with a top 5 finals performance ever and finals mvp and who actually led a team that never won anything prior to him arriving to a title is maybe top 100? This is borderline trolling dude.

Ebbs
09-29-2012, 03:40 PM
Right now top 15, if he wins a couple of more rings top 10 if he can get a mvp trophy top 5. In the history the nba he ranks 6th in player efficency rating
1.jordan
2. Lebron
3.shaq
4.David robinson
5.wilt
6.wade

at the end of his career he will prolly rank between 6-10 on the all time greatest list. He is often underrated for what he does on the court. hes had an unbelieveable career and people are starting to talk as if its over he still has a lot left in the tank. at least 5more years playing at the elite level he has played at.

wow

dnewguy
09-29-2012, 03:44 PM
Top 20 and most unique player ever. The best shot blocking guard of all time.

TheJesus
09-29-2012, 03:46 PM
I have D-Wade ranked in my Top 50. I love his fire and his tenacity but he is supremely overrated. And not durable at all.

bbblack40
09-29-2012, 03:52 PM
put it this way if you a made an all nba team for all time

15 players taking 3 at every position wade would be on that team


pg-magic, i.thomas, oscar
sg-jordan, wade, kobe
sf-bird, Lebron, Pippen
Pf-duncan, malone, KG
c-Russell, Shaq, kareem

naps
09-29-2012, 03:53 PM
I have D-Wade ranked in my Top 50. I love his fire and his tenacity but he is supremely overrated. And not durable at all.

I know it bothers you how ****ing awesome Wade is and how he's going to win many more titles. I know it sucks but gotta deal with it if you are a NBA fan.

ATX
09-29-2012, 03:53 PM
Lol this is hilarious. He's not even close to top 50. I'd say top-100 at best and thats being generous. You people need to watch more of the hardcourt classics on NBA TV.

:facepalm:

Some of DWade career accomplishments to date:

2 time NBA champion
Finals MVP
8 time All Star
All Star MVP
3 time NBA all defensive team
7 time All NBA team
6th All time PER
6 time player of the month
NCAA All American 1st team
Countless times being robbed by K Bryant's popularity

mjqusoldier
09-29-2012, 03:54 PM
Not top 50

smith&wesson
09-29-2012, 03:55 PM
top20

DanG
09-29-2012, 03:55 PM
one more ring and he cracks my top 20 for sure

Ebbs
09-29-2012, 03:56 PM
put it this way if you a made an all nba team for all time

15 players taking 3 at every position wade would be on that team


pg-magic, i.thomas, oscar
sg-jordan, wade, kobe
sf-bird, Lebron, Pippen
Pf-duncan, malone, KG
c-Russell, Shaq, kareem

Not neccasarily even if I believed that theory if it's true.

Jerry West, and Iceman definitely still have cases over him.

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-29-2012, 03:57 PM
:facepalm:

Some of DWade career accomplishments to date:

2 time NBA champion
Finals MVP
8 time All Star
All Star MVP
3 time NBA all defensive team
7 time All NBA team
6th All time PER
6 time player of the month
NCAA All American 1st team
Countless times being robbed by K Bryant's popularity

Scoring Title
All Rookie NBA team
back to back all star skills challenge winner lol

most obv moment when he was robbed by Kobe's popularity was recently during the 2010-2011 NBA season.

smh

bbblack40
09-29-2012, 04:11 PM
Not neccasarily even if I believed that theory if it's true.

Jerry West, and Iceman definitely still have cases over him.

In What way? Stats? Wade's stats are better.

Rings? Wade already has more rings and he not done yet

Competition? Wade clearly plays against better competition

Defense? wade is clearly the superior defender

people focus so much on scoring that they fail to realize all the other things a player does. Like jordan wade is an all around player. he gives you offense, defense, rebounding, assists, and he is clutch on top of that.

over 25pts a game, over 6asts, over 5rebs, 2stls, and a block a game all while shooting 50% from the field is easily top 15

heattiltheend94
09-29-2012, 04:34 PM
top 25 ATM, but by end of career, top 15.

LoveMeOrHateMe
09-29-2012, 04:47 PM
3rd greatest shooting guard of all time.

Jordan
Kobe
West

LoveMeOrHateMe
09-29-2012, 04:48 PM
Right now top 15, if he wins a couple of more rings top 10 if he can get a mvp trophy top 5. In the history the nba he ranks 6th in player efficency rating
1.jordan
2. Lebron
3.shaq
4.David robinson
5.wilt
6.wade

at the end of his career he will prolly rank between 6-10 on the all time greatest list. He is often underrated for what he does on the court. hes had an unbelieveable career and people are starting to talk as if its over he still has a lot left in the tank. at least 5more years playing at the elite level he has played at.

Lol :facepalm:

BKdoubleStacker
09-29-2012, 04:49 PM
In What way? Stats? Wade's stats are better.

Rings? Wade already has more rings and he not done yet

Competition? Wade clearly plays against better competition

Defense? wade is clearly the superior defender

people focus so much on scoring that they fail to realize all the other things a player does. Like jordan wade is an all around player. he gives you offense, defense, rebounding, assists, and he is clutch on top of that.

over 25pts a game, over 6asts, over 5rebs, 2stls, and a block a game all while shooting 50% from the field is easily top 15

better competition? half of the eastern conference was broken last season, and lets not mention its the eastern conference.

also, hes a career 48% shooter, not 50


with all that said, he is top 30, might make a case for top 20, but he will NEVER be top 15

Venomous88
09-29-2012, 04:52 PM
22.

Most disrespected all-time great along with Nique

Sadds The Gr8
09-29-2012, 05:00 PM
lol this thread is filled with blasphemy and fail

Evolution23
09-29-2012, 05:00 PM
Top 200

b@llhog24
09-29-2012, 05:03 PM
Then why isn't T-Mac higher seeing as how his peak was pretty much one of the best of all time statistically.

Lack of titles??

For arguments sake, his peak and Wade's peak is about equal. But Wade's prime and defense is a notch above Tmac's.



Right now top 15, if he wins a couple of more rings top 10 if he can get a mvp trophy top 5. In the history the nba he ranks 6th in player efficency rating
1.jordan
2. Lebron
3.shaq
4.David robinson
5.wilt
6.wade

at the end of his career he will prolly rank between 6-10 on the all time greatest list. He is often underrated for what he does on the court. hes had an unbelieveable career and people are starting to talk as if its over he still has a lot left in the tank. at least 5more years playing at the elite level he has played at.

:laugh:


wow

+1.


Not top 50

Good argument.

b@llhog24
09-29-2012, 05:04 PM
You guys are smoking if you think there are +30 players that are better than Wade.

BKdoubleStacker
09-29-2012, 05:12 PM
22.

Most disrespected all-time great along with Nique

lmao! most disrespected???

fudge_brownie
09-29-2012, 05:19 PM
Honestly, as of right now i dont think he belongs with the all time greats as of right now.. There's just way too many players before him who accomplished so much to put him above those men.. Yes, he's one of the better players in this era but as of right now i dont believe he should be with the all time greats. Right now id say hes between 40-50 in the greatest of all time and that may be pushing it.. I know a lot people dont like that, but thats how i feel.. If you think about it, there are 5-10 in THIS era alone that would go down as better players on the all time list and thats just this era, now factor in every NBA era, id say he's between 40-50. Now i do believe he will end his career a lot higher then that because i do think he will accomplish a LOT more in his career.

Hotone1401
09-29-2012, 05:21 PM
I'm a speechless at the homerism in these threads. *smh*

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-29-2012, 05:23 PM
Honestly, as of right now i dont think he belongs with the all time greats as of right now.. There's just way too many players before him who accomplished so much to put him above those men.. Yes, he's one of the better players in this era but as of right now i dont believe he should be with the all time greats. Right now id say hes between 40-50 in the greatest of all time and that may be pushing it.. I know a lot people dont like that, but thats how i feel.. If you think about it, there are 5-10 in THIS era alone that would go down as better players on the all time list and thats just this era, now factor in every NBA era, id say he's between 40-50. Now i do believe he will end his career a lot higher then that because i do think he will accomplish a LOT more in his career.

Agreed...

Vidball
09-29-2012, 05:41 PM
Is there an option for 41-100?

TylerSL
09-29-2012, 05:49 PM
I'd say right now, he is in the 20-25 range, and its likely he will be around 15 when he is done.

M.Bibby2.0
09-29-2012, 05:56 PM
I think if he were to maintain current production and get 2 more titles with the Heat core then you could make a case for him ranking as high as Kobe. Primarily because Kobe wasn't 'the man' for most of his titles either (they have both been option 2). Didn't the guy post the highest average PER ever during the 2006 finals while bringing the heat their first ship? Pretty legendary.

A lot of people on here are thinking he's going into a major regression, and I see where they are coming from, but if he can keep from declining for just a few more years he'll be up there in the top 15 I think.

AIsixersFK
09-29-2012, 06:11 PM
This thread is full of :facepalm:

Mr. LA
09-29-2012, 06:16 PM
Wherever Wade is at... Bryant is 20-25 spots ahead of him so I'd put Wade around the 33rd best of all time...WHEN his career is over! More titles or not

On second thought... He really is no where near Bryant and as of now Bryant is only around 15-20 so Wade is around 50-60...when it's all said and done he could possibly finish in the top 45

Looking at stats alone... Wade is pretty close to Kobe but then looking at achievements... Bryant's achievements make Wade's look really bad! If somehow Wade can 3 more titles which I seriously DOUBT...then he can crack the top 20 but 0-1 more titles... He is 40 - 50

If Bryant gets 1-2 more...He is almost = to Jordan... If Bryant somehow gets three more which I also doubt....Then he is the GOAT IMO

But as for Wade I say he gets 1 more title and will be known as the 40-45 best of all time...then again...we didn't watch the very old guys so he might not even be in the top 70 idk

JasonJohnHorn
09-29-2012, 06:34 PM
When it comes to Wade, I really have to see how his career turns out from here. I know last season his numbers took a hit because of his injury and limitted minutes. If he bounces back and starts looking like his old self for 5 more seasons or so, I'd say he's top twenty, or top twenty five. If his numbers continue to drop, I'd say top 50. It's like Bill Walton, had he stayed healthy his entire career he certainly would have been a top twenty type of player, but his health was an issue and his number took a hit. Carter and T-Mac also had high peeks but saw their numbers drop drastically with time and injury.


So Imma hold onto my vote for now.

Fnom11
09-29-2012, 06:40 PM
Man I stop going to this site for a few weeks and now there's like 30 new trolls.

Mr Costanza
09-29-2012, 06:41 PM
Man I stop going to this site for a few weeks and now there's like 30 new trolls.

Conservative estimate.

BKdoubleStacker
09-29-2012, 06:52 PM
PSD: where lulz happen

Mr. LA
09-29-2012, 06:57 PM
No one is intentionally being a troll IMO... This question is almost impossible to answer... Different era s, teams they played on, different positions, etc, etc, etc... this can't be answered...So some of the responses may seem stupid but in reality someone saying he is 100-120 might be exactly right or he might be crazy...who knows

THE MTL
09-29-2012, 06:58 PM
I think its too early to give him a rank. I would def put him in the top 50, but the range is huge especially considering more allstars, championships, individual accolades.

dwadefan03
09-29-2012, 07:04 PM
Wherever Wade is at... Bryant is 20-25 spots ahead of him so I'd put Wade around the 33rd best of all time...WHEN his career is over! More titles or not

On second thought... He really is no where near Bryant and as of now Bryant is only around 15-20 so Wade is around 50-60...when it's all said and done he could possibly finish in the top 45

Looking at stats alone... Wade is pretty close to Kobe but then looking at achievements... Bryant's achievements make Wade's look really bad! If somehow Wade can 3 more titles which I seriously DOUBT...then he can crack the top 20 but 0-1 more titles... He is 40 - 50

If Bryant gets 1-2 more...He is almost = to Jordan... If Bryant somehow gets three more which I also doubt....Then he is the GOAT IMO

But as for Wade I say he gets 1 more title and will be known as the 40-45 best of all time...then again...we didn't watch the very old guys so he might not even be in the top 70 idk


Pretty close? Wade has Kobe beat in literally pretty much every major statistical category for the past 5 years.

You can proceed to give me the "but he has 5 rings" argument now :rolleyes:

As for the question i think when his career is over hes going to go down as the 2nd best sg of all time. Yes Laker fans, over your beloved Kobe


That is laughable, just because they have the same amount of rings doesnt mean that they are equal in ability. Jordan's numbers blow Kobes so far out of the water its not funny

Mr Costanza
09-29-2012, 07:06 PM
No one is intentionally being a troll IMO... This question is almost impossible to answer... Different era s, teams they played on, different positions, etc, etc, etc... this can't be answered...So some of the responses may seem stupid but in reality someone saying he is 100-120 might be exactly right or he might be crazy...who knows

You are THE troll of PSD, bar none.

JEDean89
09-29-2012, 07:07 PM
Wad at his peak was top 20 for sure. He is one of a few players to really carry his team to the Finals and Win it. He was insane in those finals and won the mvp. if the heat had beat dallas last year, i think he would have won mvp. One of the best transition SG's of all time. One of the most athletic, one of the fastest and certainly one of the strongest.

Mr. LA
09-29-2012, 07:08 PM
You are THE troll of PSD, bar none.

good for you! :clap:

Mr Costanza
09-29-2012, 07:10 PM
good for you! :clap:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtqp-RUw87M

Mr. LA
09-29-2012, 07:12 PM
Pretty close? Wade has Kobe beat in literally pretty much every major statistical category for the past 5 years.

You can proceed to give me the "but he has 5 rings" argument now :rolleyes:

As for the question i think when his career is over hes going to go down as the 2nd best sg of all time. Yes Laker fans, over your beloved Kobe


That is laughable, just because they have the same amount of rings doesnt mean that they are equal in ability. Jordan's numbers blow Kobes so far out of the water its not funny

1. We are talking about all time, not just the past 5 years
2. You don't honestly believe Wade is anywhere Kobe do you? lolololol you obviously just recently started watching the NBA if you believe that, go watch some tape kid!
3. I said IF he gets 3 more Championships...which would give him 8 to Jordans 6 and Kobe has amazing numbers as well

dwadefan03
09-29-2012, 08:00 PM
1. We are talking about all time, not just the past 5 years
2. You don't honestly believe Wade is anywhere Kobe do you? lolololol you obviously just recently started watching the NBA if you believe that, go watch some tape kid!
3. I said IF he gets 3 more Championships...which would give him 8 to Jordans 6 and Kobe has amazing numbers as well

Yes i do believe Wade is better than Kobe and so do alot of other people, that arent Laker fans. Literally the only reason has stayed atop these rankings for so long is because of his popularity. Wades numbers > Kobes numbers. Wade is more efficient, a better passer, better rebounder, and a better defender. Wades best year> Kobes best year.

And you said if Kobe gets one more championship he would be equal to jordan, which again is laughable.

MTar786
09-29-2012, 08:04 PM
top 14-22 anywhere in between there

MELO 15
09-29-2012, 08:07 PM
top 5 nba finals performance ever.
2x NBA Champion.
effecient.
Topped the 30ppg once in his career.
Career Average of 25 ppg.
Finals MVP.
1 All Star Game MVP
8x All star
2x Olympic gold.
1 Scoring Title

top 20 fosho.

Never won one:facepalm:

MELO 15
09-29-2012, 08:11 PM
not even top 40

BklynKnicks3
09-29-2012, 08:34 PM
right below carmelo

M.Bibby2.0
09-29-2012, 08:44 PM
Guys if Wade was a Laker he'd easily be top 10 all time. But he's not so he barely grazes top 200.

M.Bibby2.0
09-29-2012, 08:47 PM
^I'm just trolling keep your panties on.

Bruno
09-29-2012, 08:54 PM
he's top 25 right now without really thinking twice about it. i'd say his celling is somewhere around the 13-15 range, depending on how many titles the Heat rack up with LBJ as finals MVP. Only chance of having an argument as top ten would be if he played at a high level through 35, while winning another Finals MVP at at least a couple of more rings. Although even then he'd still be the only top ten debatable without a regular season MVP.

Mr. LA
09-29-2012, 08:58 PM
Wade 2 titles (COMPLETELY CARRIED by Lebron James and Shaq)
Bryant 5 titles

Wade 0 MVP
Bryant 1 MVP

Wade 1st team all NBA a measly 2 times
Bryant 1st team all NBA 10 times

Wade all star game MVP 1 time
Bryant all star game MVP 4 times

Wade 8 time all star
Bryant 14 time all star

Wade 2 time all NBA defensive first team
Bryant 9 time all NBA defensive first team

Wade 1 scoring title
Bryant 2 scoring titles

Then you can factor in the 81 point game, the clutch shots, etc for Bryant

And in all honesty... I believe Kobe Bryant has more good years left then Wade does!

I really think your like 15-17 and you have only watched the past 3 years... I don't know how anyone can honestly say Wade is anywhere near Kobe Bryant's greatness! or ever will be!

JordansBulls
09-29-2012, 08:59 PM
Never won one:facepalm:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_yearly.html

2008-09 NBA Dwyane Wade 30.20 MIA

b@llhog24
09-29-2012, 09:08 PM
Never won one:facepalm:

You probably got him confused with Melo. :D

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-29-2012, 09:10 PM
Man I stop going to this site for a few weeks and now there's like 30 new trolls.

How many from ur fanbase lol

Evolution23
09-29-2012, 09:11 PM
Wade 2 titles (COMPLETELY CARRIED by Lebron James and Shaq)
Bryant 5 titles

Wade 0 MVP
Bryant 1 MVP

Wade 1st team all NBA a measly 2 times
Bryant 1st team all NBA 10 times

Wade all star game MVP 1 time
Bryant all star game MVP 4 times

Wade 8 time all star
Bryant 14 time all star

Wade 2 time all NBA defensive first team
Bryant 9 time all NBA defensive first team

Wade 1 scoring title
Bryant 2 scoring titles

Then you can factor in the 81 point game, the clutch shots, etc for Bryant

And in all honesty... I believe Kobe Bryant has more good years left then Wade does!

I really think your like 15-17 and you have only watched the past 3 years... I don't know how anyone can honestly say Wade is anywhere near Kobe Bryant's greatness! or ever will be!

Yeah I agree with this.

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-29-2012, 09:20 PM
Yeah I agree with this.

Damn !! Cosign lol

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-29-2012, 09:22 PM
Wade is a beast under these rules. Not sure if he would be so great in the no ticky tac foul era with no consistent J. He'd really get hurt with his style of play back then.. Just my opinion

Quinnsanity
09-29-2012, 09:42 PM
I think Wade is historically overrated because of the '06 title. If Miami had only gotten 85% of the calls instead of the 95% they actually got Dallas wins that series and Wade is ringless until 2012, in fact he might be ringless period, butterfly effect may have caused LeBron to stay put. Why would LeBron go to Wade's city and play for Wade's team if Wade was just as ringless as he was? Some titles are worth more than others and I have a really hard time assigning much real value to Wade's '06 title considering the circumstances. A lot of people are putting him in the top 15-20 (which in my mind is absurd at this point), I think his true ranking is somewhere in the mid-30s.

NJBASEBALL22
09-29-2012, 09:58 PM
Yes i do believe Wade is better than Kobe and so do alot of other people, that arent Laker fans. Literally the only reason has stayed atop these rankings for so long is because of his popularity. Wades numbers > Kobes numbers. Wade is more efficient, a better passer, better rebounder, and a better defender. Wades best year> Kobes best year.

And you said if Kobe gets one more championship he would be equal to jordan, which again is laughable.

I don't agree w/ either one of yall.

Yeah, both Kobe and Wade are all time greats... Kobe 8-14, Wade 25-35 right now.

To compate Kobe and Wade over the past 5 years is silly, those are Kobe's 12th-16th seasons compared to Wade's 5th-9th seasons where he is supposed to be in his prime... and his stats still don't destroy Kobe's. A matter of fact, Kobe beats him in a few categories and is close in most others.

Kobe has had a great 12 year stretch, where Wade has had an inconsistent 7 year stretch. And I hate to say it but Wade is much closer to the tail end of his career than the beginning.

MetroMan
09-29-2012, 09:59 PM
50-60

Quinnsanity
09-29-2012, 09:59 PM
Wade 2 titles (COMPLETELY CARRIED by Lebron James and Shaq)
Bryant 5 titles

Wade 0 MVP
Bryant 1 MVP

Wade 1st team all NBA a measly 2 times
Bryant 1st team all NBA 10 times

Wade all star game MVP 1 time
Bryant all star game MVP 4 times

Wade 8 time all star
Bryant 14 time all star

Wade 2 time all NBA defensive first team
Bryant 9 time all NBA defensive first team

Wade 1 scoring title
Bryant 2 scoring titles

Then you can factor in the 81 point game, the clutch shots, etc for Bryant

And in all honesty... I believe Kobe Bryant has more good years left then Wade does!

I really think your like 15-17 and you have only watched the past 3 years... I don't know how anyone can honestly say Wade is anywhere near Kobe Bryant's greatness! or ever will be!

I hate to agree with Mr. LA, but he's right. Kobe and Wade are in completely different stratospheres historically. Even if you say Kobe wasn't "the man" on his first three title teams, he was far more important to those Lakers than Wade was to the '12 Heat where. Kobe doesn't get nearly enough credit, Shaq was the alpha dog on those teams but Kobe was the closer and Kobe took control in several key games. Wade was LeBron's CLEAR sidekick last year, in fact sidekick is almost giving him too much credit. You could have replaced Dwyane Wade with several shooting guards (James Harden, Manu, Joe Johnson, Kobe) and Lebron still leads that team to a title, If you switch Kobe with Tmac or Vince Carter in the early 2000s the Lakers don't win three titles.

In terms of individual greatness I think both are in a rare position in that their teammate trajectories are nearly identical (with larger sample sizes for Kobe) so you can't simply say "Kobe had better stats because of his teammates". Both played on contenders early on (both with Shaq) and Kobe was better. Then both played on ****** teams in their primes and Kobe was still better. Finally, both got better teammates and became contenders later in their careers, and Kobe was still better. Individually Kobe completely owned the league for two full seasons ('06 and '07). Wade never did that. There was no point in history where we could definitively say Wade was the best player in the league, there were at least two years where we could say that about Kobe, historically that's HUGE. In fact, I'd argue there are only a few years ('06, '09, perhaps '11) where we could say Wade was top 3. Kobe was top 3 from '00 through around '08 (depending on how you want to date his decline).

It's hard to measure accolades at this point because neither player is done and Kobe has played longer, but I don't see any way Wade comes even close to matching what Kobe has done in that regard. Kobe has a chance to be the all time scoring leader, even though some of his all-defensive teams were based on reputation he was still far better than Wade at his peak (who by the way gets way too much credit nowadays, LeBron protects him and that entire team defensively far more than he's given credit for), and assuming Kobe keeps up an elite level of play for the next few years or so he'll have been great longer than pretty much anyone else in history (except maybe Kareem, we'll have to see how this plays out). And honestly time isn't going to make up that difference. Kobe's insane drive and work ethic is going to keep him at a high level for at least a few more years and he's already a complete historical anomaly in terms of his longevity and level of play. Wade's only 30 and we're already starting to see a sharp decline. I don't think the playoffs were just a function of injury, I think he's simply getting older and not as physically equipped to handle injuries. If I had to bet my life on who would be better for the next five years I'd honestly bet Kobe.

Come on people, I know it's fashionable to hate Kobe but to say that Wade is even close to him historically is absolutely ridiculous. Wade is a great player, but a player who doesn't mean much historically except for his association with LeBron (a player who already is on Kobe's historical level and will probably end up surpassing him). I don't look at Wade any differently than I would Tmac (someone who has been mentioned in this thread). If Tmac had played on Wade's teams and vice versa I don't think we'd see much of a historical difference.

And btw, I'm a Knicks fan. I hate the Lakers and Heat fairly equally so please don't shout bias.

M.Bibby2.0
09-29-2012, 10:01 PM
Wade 2 titles (COMPLETELY CARRIED by Lebron James and Shaq)
Bryant 5 titles

Wade 0 MVP
Bryant 1 MVP

Wade 1st team all NBA a measly 2 times
Bryant 1st team all NBA 10 times

Wade all star game MVP 1 time
Bryant all star game MVP 4 times

Wade 8 time all star
Bryant 14 time all star

Wade 2 time all NBA defensive first team
Bryant 9 time all NBA defensive first team

Wade 1 scoring title
Bryant 2 scoring titles

Then you can factor in the 81 point game, the clutch shots, etc for Bryant

And in all honesty... I believe Kobe Bryant has more good years left then Wade does!

I really think your like 15-17 and you have only watched the past 3 years... I don't know how anyone can honestly say Wade is anywhere near Kobe Bryant's greatness! or ever will be!

LOL if anyone was carried by Shaq it was Kobe! If you think that wade was carried by Shaq then youwere not old enough to comprehend what was going on. I'm not trying to knock Kobe but Wade was the man in 2006. Meanwhile an easy case is made that Kobe only deserved one finals MVP, not to mention wade is a big time MVP snub.

But to make my stance clear, Kobe has more accomplishments and that puts him ahead in all time ranks. However Wade has been better statistically for a while now, and given the help Kobe has had over the years, he too would probably have a ton of allocates.

b@llhog24
09-29-2012, 10:02 PM
Yes i do believe Wade is better than Kobe and so do alot of other people, that arent Laker fans. Literally the only reason has stayed atop these rankings for so long is because of his popularity. Wades numbers > Kobes numbers. Wade is more efficient, a better passer, better rebounder, and a better defender. Wades best year> Kobes best year.

And you said if Kobe gets one more championship he would be equal to jordan, which again is laughable.

I don't agree w/ either one of yall.

Yeah, both Kobe and Wade are all time greats... Kobe 8-14, Wade 25-35 right now.

To compate Kobe and Wade over the past 5 years is silly, those are Kobe's 12th-16th seasons compared to Wade's 5th-9th seasons where he is supposed to be in his prime... and his stats still don't destroy Kobe's. A matter of fact, Kobe beats him in a few categories and is close in most others.

What stats are you talking about?

MetroMan
09-29-2012, 10:11 PM
wade is 55-70

Mr. LA
09-29-2012, 10:26 PM
I hate to agree with Mr. LA, but he's right. Kobe and Wade are in completely different stratospheres historically. Even if you say Kobe wasn't "the man" on his first three title teams, he was far more important to those Lakers than Wade was to the '12 Heat where. Kobe doesn't get nearly enough credit, Shaq was the alpha dog on those teams but Kobe was the closer and Kobe took control in several key games. Wade was LeBron's CLEAR sidekick last year, in fact sidekick is almost giving him too much credit. You could have replaced Dwyane Wade with several shooting guards (James Harden, Manu, Joe Johnson, Kobe) and Lebron still leads that team to a title, If you switch Kobe with Tmac or Vince Carter in the early 2000s the Lakers don't win three titles.

In terms of individual greatness I think both are in a rare position in that their teammate trajectories are nearly identical (with larger sample sizes for Kobe) so you can't simply say "Kobe had better stats because of his teammates". Both played on contenders early on (both with Shaq) and Kobe was better. Then both played on ****** teams in their primes and Kobe was still better. Finally, both got better teammates and became contenders later in their careers, and Kobe was still better. Individually Kobe completely owned the league for two full seasons ('06 and '07). Wade never did that. There was no point in history where we could definitively say Wade was the best player in the league, there were at least two years where we could say that about Kobe, historically that's HUGE. In fact, I'd argue there are only a few years ('06, '09, perhaps '11) where we could say Wade was top 3. Kobe was top 3 from '00 through around '08 (depending on how you want to date his decline).

It's hard to measure accolades at this point because neither player is done and Kobe has played longer, but I don't see any way Wade comes even close to matching what Kobe has done in that regard. Kobe has a chance to be the all time scoring leader, even though some of his all-defensive teams were based on reputation he was still far better than Wade at his peak (who by the way gets way too much credit nowadays, LeBron protects him and that entire team defensively far more than he's given credit for), and assuming Kobe keeps up an elite level of play for the next few years or so he'll have been great longer than pretty much anyone else in history (except maybe Kareem, we'll have to see how this plays out). And honestly time isn't going to make up that difference. Kobe's insane drive and work ethic is going to keep him at a high level for at least a few more years and he's already a complete historical anomaly in terms of his longevity and level of play. Wade's only 30 and we're already starting to see a sharp decline. I don't think the playoffs were just a function of injury, I think he's simply getting older and not as physically equipped to handle injuries. If I had to bet my life on who would be better for the next five years I'd honestly bet Kobe.

Come on people, I know it's fashionable to hate Kobe but to say that Wade is even close to him historically is absolutely ridiculous. Wade is a great player, but a player who doesn't mean much historically except for his association with LeBron (a player who already is on Kobe's historical level and will probably end up surpassing him). I don't look at Wade any differently than I would Tmac (someone who has been mentioned in this thread). If Tmac had played on Wade's teams and vice versa I don't think we'd see much of a historical difference.

And btw, I'm a Knicks fan. I hate the Lakers and Heat fairly equally so please don't shout bias.

Not to fond about the first 5 words you said lol but the rest is well said sir!

Andrew32
09-29-2012, 10:27 PM
Not sure why people are so ignorant when it comes to judging Wade.

Wade in terms of Peak (1 year) and Prime (4-5 years) is superior to Kobe.

Wade won a single title as the best player on his team (06)
Kobe won a single title as the best player on his team (09)

Wade should have won a second title as the man and a FMVP in 2011 if not for Lebron choking.

Wade is a better player then Kobe.

The reason why Kobe has a better career so far is due solely to durability
Kobe has 1+ extra Super-Star level season and 3+ All-Star level seasons.

While that gap is longevity is significant it isn't so big that you can't compare the two.

I have Kobe in the 10-15 range currently while Wade is in my 20-25 range.

I also hate the All-NBA teams argument.
First lets address "All-NBA 1st / 2nd / 3rd teams"

Wade was the best SG in the league in 05, 06, 09, 10, 11, 12 and will probably be the best SG for the next 2-3 years assuming he doesn't get injured.

Wade defensively peaked much higher then Kobe and was / has been much better over his career.

Playoffs

Wade : 6.7 DWShares in 110-Games / 4432-Minutes
Kobe : 7.3 DWShares in 220-Games / 8641-Minutes

Wade is also a much better Finals performer (one of the best ever) and dominated the best defensive teams (Detroit, Boston) which Kobe struggled against.

Wade is well on his way to having a "West" like career and possibly surpassing him although I don't even see him getting a Tier above Jerry.

He will certainly be in the Top 20 by time he retires.

MetroMan
09-29-2012, 10:29 PM
Not sure why people are so ignorant when it comes to judging Wade.

Wade in terms of Peak (1 year) and Prime (4-5 years) is superior to Kobe.

Wade won a single title as the best player on his team (06)
Kobe won a single title as the best player on his team (09)

Wade should have won a second title as the man and a FMVP in 2011 if not for Lebron choking.

Wade is a better player then Kobe.

The reason why Kobe has a better career so far is due solely to durability
Kobe has 1+ extra Super-Star level season and 3+ All-Star level seasons.

While that gap is longevity is significant it isn't so big that you can't compare the two.

I have Kobe in the 10-15 range currently while Wade is in my 20-25 range.

I also hate the All-NBA teams argument.
First lets address "All-NBA 1st / 2nd / 3rd teams"

Wade was the best SG in the league in 05, 06, 09, 10, 11, 12 and will probably be the best SG for the next 2-3 years assuming he doesn't get injured.

Wade defensively peaked much higher then Kobe and was / has been much better over his career.

Playoffs

Wade : 6.7 DWShares in 110-Games / 4432-Minutes
Kobe : 7.3 DWShares in 220-Games / 8641-Minutes

Wade is also a much better Finals performer (one of the best ever) and dominated the best defensive teams (Detroit, Boston) which Kobe struggled against.

Wade is well on his way to having a "West" like career and possibly surpassing him although I don't even see him getting a Tier above Jerry.

He will certainly be in the Top 20 by time he retires.

lol at u troll

dwadefan03
09-29-2012, 10:30 PM
Wade 2 titles (COMPLETELY CARRIED by Lebron James and Shaq)
Bryant 5 titles

Wade 0 MVP
Bryant 1 MVP

Wade 1st team all NBA a measly 2 times
Bryant 1st team all NBA 10 times

Wade all star game MVP 1 time
Bryant all star game MVP 4 times

Wade 8 time all star
Bryant 14 time all star

Wade 2 time all NBA defensive first team
Bryant 9 time all NBA defensive first team

Wade 1 scoring title
Bryant 2 scoring titles

Then you can factor in the 81 point game, the clutch shots, etc for Bryant

And in all honesty... I believe Kobe Bryant has more good years left then Wade does!

I really think your like 15-17 and you have only watched the past 3 years... I don't know how anyone can honestly say Wade is anywhere near Kobe Bryant's greatness! or ever will be!

That right there is where you lose all credibility. Literally anything you said after that holds absolutely no value because you honestly believe that Shaq carried Wade in the 06 Finals. That statement alone just proves how much basketball knowledge you actually have so before you comment on mine by saying that im just a kid that hasn't watched for very long, you should go back and watch the 06 finals and then TRY and tell me that that wasnt one of the greatest finals performances in NBA history

Oh and by the way if a 34 year old shaq "carried" Wade, what did prime Shaq do for Kobe?

Mr. LA
09-29-2012, 10:31 PM
LOL if anyone was carried by Shaq it was Kobe! If you think that wade was carried by Shaq then youwere not old enough to comprehend what was going on. I'm not trying to knock Kobe but Wade was the man in 2006. Meanwhile an easy case is made that Kobe only deserved one finals MVP, not to mention wade is a big time MVP snub.

But to make my stance clear, Kobe has more accomplishments and that puts him ahead in all time ranks. However Wade has been better statistically for a while now, and given the help Kobe has had over the years, he too would probably have a ton of allocates.

Kobe was not carried... Shaq was the biggest name in the NBA at that time and Kobe was still a young punk... It will be kind of like this year... Kobe is the biggest name in the NBA and Dwight is still a young punk but in 5 years when/if kobe and dwight win 3 rings together...will Dwight be known as the guy that was carried by Kobe? actually...he probably will, but in reality, he obviously will be as important as Kobe or even more important.... I don't know if anyone will know what I mean because it might sound confusing but maybe someone will know what I mean lol

dwadefan03
09-29-2012, 10:32 PM
lol at u troll

so because he was arguing making a valid point, hes a troll. Pretty much anyone that doesn't agree that Kobe is god is a troll

Mr. LA
09-29-2012, 10:35 PM
LOL at the guy that said "Wade won one single title by himself (06) and Kobe won one single title by himself (09)" First of all NOBODY wins a title by themselves and second of all...are you saying Kobe wasn't the best player on the Lakers in 2010? LMAO

Andrew32
09-29-2012, 10:36 PM
Kobe was not carried... Shaw was the biggest name in the NBA at that time and Kobe was still a young punk... It will be kind of like this year... Kobe is the biggest name in the NBA and Dwight is still a young punk but in 5 years when/if kobe and dwight win 3 rings together...will Dwight be known as the guy was carried by Kobe? actually...probably but in reality He obviously will be as important as Kobe or even more important.... I don't know if anyone will know what I mean because it might sound confusing but maybe someone will know what I mean lol

Shaq carried those teams.
He was the engine of those teams and the primary reason they won.

They had an 80% winning % when Kobe was out injured during those years and something like a 40% winning % when Shaq was out.

Hate it or love it but Kobe was just a supporting player those years.

In 00 and 02 he wasn't even on the level of Prime Pippen.

If Kobe was more then a supporting player then what does that make 2010 Gasol?

Player A : 26 / 6 / 4.5apg on 51%TS (20.5 PER) (.148 WSP48)
Player B : 20 / 11 / 3.5apg on 60%TS (24 PER) (.224 WSP48)

Player A = 2002 Kobe
Player B = 2010 Gasol

2010 Gasol >>> 2002 Kobe
2002 Shaq >>>>> 2010 Kobe

So... I guess Kobe was Gasol's sidekick in 2010? lol

Shaq in the early 00's was the MDE... Kobe was just an All-Star in 00 and 02.
Trying to act like their production/contributions were even remotely similar is beyond ignorant.

The gap between them in those two particular years was easily the same gap that existed between Jordan/Pippen if not bigger.

Not saying they win without him but he was still a supporting player.

dwadefan03
09-29-2012, 10:40 PM
I hate to agree with Mr. LA, but he's right. Kobe and Wade are in completely different stratospheres historically. Even if you say Kobe wasn't "the man" on his first three title teams, he was far more important to those Lakers than Wade was to the '12 Heat where. Kobe doesn't get nearly enough credit, Shaq was the alpha dog on those teams but Kobe was the closer and Kobe took control in several key games. Wade was LeBron's CLEAR sidekick last year, in fact sidekick is almost giving him too much credit. You could have replaced Dwyane Wade with several shooting guards (James Harden, Manu, Joe Johnson, Kobe) and Lebron still leads that team to a title, If you switch Kobe with Tmac or Vince Carter in the early 2000s the Lakers don't win three titles.


1.) How can you say that about Wade and not about Kobe? Wade was playing injured all year last year, which is why he took more of a limited role. If you go back to the year they went to the finals against Dallas he was jusrt as impressive as hes always been. And to think James Harden and Joe Johnson are even close to the level Wades at is just irrational

In terms of individual greatness I think both are in a rare position in that their teammate trajectories are nearly identical (with larger sample sizes for Kobe) so you can't simply say "Kobe had better stats because of his teammates". Both played on contenders early on (both with Shaq) and Kobe was better. Then both played on ****** teams in their primes and Kobe was still better. Finally, both got better teammates and became contenders later in their careers, and Kobe was still better. Individually Kobe completely owned the league for two full seasons ('06 and '07). Wade never did that. There was no point in history where we could definitively say Wade was the best player in the league, there were at least two years where we could say that about Kobe, historically that's HUGE. In fact, I'd argue there are only a few years ('06, '09, perhaps '11) where we could say Wade was top 3. Kobe was top 3 from '00 through around '08 (depending on how you want to date his decline).

2.) All you're doing is stating your opinion. Why was Kobe better? Better yet, how was Kobe better when Wade was more of a contributor in every major category across the board?

It's hard to measure accolades at this point because neither player is done and Kobe has played longer, but I don't see any way Wade comes even close to matching what Kobe has done in that regard. Kobe has a chance to be the all time scoring leader, even though some of his all-defensive teams were based on reputation he was still far better than Wade at his peak (who by the way gets way too much credit nowadays, LeBron protects him and that entire team defensively far more than he's given credit for), and assuming Kobe keeps up an elite level of play for the next few years or so he'll have been great longer than pretty much anyone else in history (except maybe Kareem, we'll have to see how this plays out). And honestly time isn't going to make up that difference. Kobe's insane drive and work ethic is going to keep him at a high level for at least a few more years and he's already a complete historical anomaly in terms of his longevity and level of play. Wade's only 30 and we're already starting to see a sharp decline. I don't think the playoffs were just a function of injury, I think he's simply getting older and not as physically equipped to handle injuries. If I had to bet my life on who would be better for the next five years I'd honestly bet Kobe.


3.) Wade was a great defender WAY before LeBron

Come on people, I know it's fashionable to hate Kobe but to say that Wade is even close to him historically is absolutely ridiculous. Wade is a great player, but a player who doesn't mean much historically except for his association with LeBron (a player who already is on Kobe's historical level and will probably end up surpassing him). I don't look at Wade any differently than I would Tmac (someone who has been mentioned in this thread). If Tmac had played on Wade's teams and vice versa I don't think we'd see much of a historical difference.

4.) Tma, even at his peak was nowhere near the defeder Wade was. Nor was he anywhere close to being as efficient

And btw, I'm a Knicks fan. I hate the Lakers and Heat fairly equally so please don't shout bias.
.

shep33
09-29-2012, 10:45 PM
My one gripe with Wade is his all-time rankings in statistical categories.

Right now he's not in the top 100 in scoring, assists, steals. Not in the top 250 in rebounding.

He'll be in the top 20 when all is said and done though. As of this moment, I'd say he's 20-30.

dee279
09-29-2012, 11:07 PM
Top 20 and fck it if you dont like it. The man was dominant. Yeah he had injuries but always came back from them just like he will this year.

Andrew32
09-29-2012, 11:11 PM
My one gripe with Wade is his all-time rankings in statistical categories.

Right now he's not in the top 100 in scoring, assists, steals. Not in the top 250 in rebounding.

He'll be in the top 20 when all is said and done though. As of this moment, I'd say he's 20-30.

Yeah... but you can't put too much weight on totals.

Karl Malone is Top 1-5 in so many categories and yet people rank him outside the Top 10.

Wade has been one of the best regular season performers ever over his career.

Other then the fact that in 1-3 seasons he missed 15-30 games there is not much you can complain about it when it comes to his regular season performances.

I am sure by time he retires he'll be higher up on the totals board.

I don't put much weight on totals though.
I am more interested in total number of quality season etc...

Bruno
09-29-2012, 11:19 PM
wades all time standing seems pretty controversial.

not sure why kobes name is being debated in this thread, as it's off topic. this thread is about Wade and his individual standing, it isn't a comparisons thread.

if you want to debate kobe and wade, go create a thread in the comparisons forum.

C-Style
09-29-2012, 11:21 PM
Wade has everything to be considered top 20, he just needs hardware *** a MVP and maybe one more FVP

Andrew32
09-29-2012, 11:36 PM
Wade has everything to be considered top 20, he just needs hardware *** a MVP and maybe one more FVP

:clap:
Agreed.

If he can get 2-3 more Super-Star level seasons I think you'll be able to argue him above West or at worst on the same Tier as him.

I doubt he'll catch Kobe because of durability/longevity issues but ending up Top 15 or Top 20 is still obviously an incredible achievement.

shep33
09-30-2012, 12:15 AM
Yeah... but you can't put too much weight on totals.

Karl Malone is Top 1-5 in so many categories and yet people rank him outside the Top 10.

Wade has been one of the best regular season performers ever over his career.

Other then the fact that in 1-3 seasons he missed 15-30 games there is not much you can complain about it when it comes to his regular season performances.

I am sure by time he retires he'll be higher up on the totals board.

I don't put much weight on totals though.
I am more interested in total number of quality season etc...

Everybody is going to have their opinion. I understand yours. For me though, I think totals play a big deal. They indicate longevity of greatness for me. I think Karl is the 2nd best PF ever. So underrated. To put up those numbers consistently is amazing. I know a lot of people will credit Stockton, but Malone was perhaps the greatest pick and roll PF ever in his own right.

M.Bibby2.0
09-30-2012, 12:29 AM
Shaq carried those teams.
He was the engine of those teams and the primary reason they won.

They had an 80% winning % when Kobe was out injured during those years and something like a 40% winning % when Shaq was out.

Hate it or love it but Kobe was just a supporting player those years.

In 00 and 02 he wasn't even on the level of Prime Pippen.

If Kobe was more then a supporting player then what does that make 2010 Gasol?

Player A : 26 / 6 / 4.5apg on 51%TS (20.5 PER) (.148 WSP48)
Player B : 20 / 11 / 3.5apg on 60%TS (24 PER) (.224 WSP48)

Player A = 2002 Kobe
Player B = 2010 Gasol

2010 Gasol >>> 2002 Kobe
2002 Shaq >>>>> 2010 Kobe

So... I guess Kobe was Gasol's sidekick in 2010? lol

Shaq in the early 00's was the MDE... Kobe was just an All-Star in 00 and 02.
Trying to act like their production/contributions were even remotely similar is beyond ignorant.

The gap between them in those two particular years was easily the same gap that existed between Jordan/Pippen if not bigger.

Not saying they win without him but he was still a supporting player.

+1 This is what i was going for but was too lazy to look up the numbers.

naps
09-30-2012, 12:45 AM
so because he was arguing making a valid point, hes a troll. Pretty much anyone that doesn't agree that Kobe is god is a troll

If you go through this thread you'll see one type of fans are trolling here big time--the insecure ones.

MintBerryCrunch
09-30-2012, 12:50 AM
put it this way if you a made an all nba team for all time

15 players taking 3 at every position wade would be on that team


pg-magic, i.thomas, oscar
sg-jordan, wade, kobe
sf-bird, Lebron, Pippen
Pf-duncan, malone, KG
c-Russell, Shaq, kareem

Did you real put Wade ahead of Kobe ...

I.. I.. Wha.. :facepalm:

jp611
09-30-2012, 12:52 AM
What to take away from this thread:

The NBA Forum is full of kids who started watching basketball in the mid to late 2000s

MintBerryCrunch
09-30-2012, 12:53 AM
Every. Single . Thread. On. This. Forum. Turns. Into. An. Argument. About.
Kobe.

3's set u free
09-30-2012, 01:16 AM
Poll is rigged. Where is the 40+ option. Dwade is a great player plagued with injuries. If he has 5 more years of great basketball and is not injured who knows. As of this moment he is a great player and maybe top 50.

Quinnsanity
09-30-2012, 02:24 AM
.

First of all, major pain in the *** responding this way, so thanks for that.

1. It's not about Wade. It's about the fact that LeBron was playing at such a high level that you could have switched Wade with a number of different shooting guards and it wouldn't have made a difference. You could never do that with Kobe. That's my point, he meant more to championship teams. Shaq was amazing, but he and Kobe had a far worse supporting cast than Wade and LeBron did this year. I mean the Heat had a third All-Star for god's sake. Combine that with the fact that Kobe's competition (prime Duncan's Spurs, Webber's Kings, KG's Wolves, Dirk/Nash's Mavs etc...) far exceed who the Heat had to play (aging Celtics, too young Thunder). To say at any point that a player was replaceable and obtain the same result (and when I say replaceable I mean by someone who does the same things) hurts historically. From the rise of the Shaq-Kobe-Phil dynasty through around 2009 or 2010 (whenever you feel that Kobe truly started to decline) you could never replace him with anyone who did what he does and obtain better results, but you could with Wade and he's nowhere near as far into his career as Kobe. That says something to me.

2. Well first of all, there is a level of opinion involved in it. You can't measure someone's "ownership" of the league, but most fans would agree that at his peak Kobe had it and Wade didn't, but if you don't want to play that game I won't make you. In Kobe's two peak years ('06 and '07) he had 28.3 total win shares, Wade ('09 and '10) had 27.7. Fairly close, except for the fact that Kobe has 10 seasons of double digit win shares to Wade's 5, so not only was Kobe's peak better, but he did it way more often. I'm guessing Wade doesn't have many more double digit win share seasons in him, so I don't expect those numbers to get closer.

If you want to get into more basic stats, Kobe averaged 35.4 points, 5.3 rebounds and 4.5 assists in his peak season of '06 and followed that up with 31.6 points, 5.7 rebounds and 5.4 assists in '07. Compare that to Wade's lines of 30.2-5.0-7.5 line of '09 and 26.6-4.8-6.5 line of '10. Which looks better? Obviously Kobe's, Wade has an edge in assists, but that's more of a playing style thing. Don't just say "Kobe was a ballhog", because Kobe had usage rates of 38.7 and 33.6 during his two peak years compared to Wade's 36.2 and 34.9.

I could expand the sample size a bit, but obviously we're just comparing peaks here because comparing Wade's longevity to Kobe's is just asinine.

Oh and one more thing, Wade's biggest weakness is much bigger than Kobe's biggest weakness. Wade is a really bad three point shooter. Only 29% for his career compared to Kobe's respectable albeit not great 34%. Can you name me such a glaring weakness in Kobe's game?

3. Wade WAS a great (well, I'd hesitate to say great, definitely very good) defender before LeBron, but he's slowed down. His injuries have limited him defensively more than anyone cares to admit, but LeBron's presence makes it very hard to really judge him because LeBron is a once in a generation defender. '06 Dwyane Wade? Elite defender, '12 Dwyane Wade? Meh. Kobe at his peak was a better defender (my opinion, I've heard both sides of the argument) and lasted far longer. You're going to hear a lot about how much Kobe's defense "improves" this year, that's BS, he's just going to be protected by Dwight Howard in the same manner Wade is by LeBron.

4 Maybe he wasn't a better defender than Wade, but his size (6'8''-6'4'') made him a far more versatile one. In fact Tmac was a more versatile offensive player as well, he could switch pretty seamlessly between shooting guard and small forward and even point forward. Oh, and Tmac was a better rebounder and a better shooter. Please explain to me how putting Dwyane Wade on the '01-'04 Magic would have made them any better than they were with Tmac? And please explain why, assuming Tmac gets the same calls in the finals Wade did, putting Tmac on Wade's Heat teams make them any worse?

DanG
09-30-2012, 03:23 AM
Shaq carried those teams.
He was the engine of those teams and the primary reason they won.

They had an 80% winning % when Kobe was out injured during those years and something like a 40% winning % when Shaq was out.

Hate it or love it but Kobe was just a supporting player those years.

In 00 and 02 he wasn't even on the level of Prime Pippen.

If Kobe was more then a supporting player then what does that make 2010 Gasol?

Player A : 26 / 6 / 4.5apg on 51%TS (20.5 PER) (.148 WSP48)
Player B : 20 / 11 / 3.5apg on 60%TS (24 PER) (.224 WSP48)

Player A = 2002 Kobe
Player B = 2010 Gasol

2010 Gasol >>> 2002 Kobe
2002 Shaq >>>>> 2010 Kobe

So... I guess Kobe was Gasol's sidekick in 2010? lol

Shaq in the early 00's was the MDE... Kobe was just an All-Star in 00 and 02.
Trying to act like their production/contributions were even remotely similar is beyond ignorant.

The gap between them in those two particular years was easily the same gap that existed between Jordan/Pippen if not bigger.

Not saying they win without him but he was still a supporting player.

So do You think Gasol was a top 5 player in the NBA? Do You think 29-6-5.5 are sidekick numbers?

NBA 2010 finals

Game 1: Kobe
Game 2: Gasol
Game 3: Kobe
Game 4: Kobe
Game 5: Kobe
Game 6: Both were great
Game 7: Gasol

Andrew32
09-30-2012, 04:09 AM
So do You think Gasol was a top 5 player in the NBA? Do You think 29-6-5.5 are sidekick numbers?

NBA 2010 finals

Why are you only focusing on 2001?
What about 2000 and 2002?

#1. Should we just pretend Kobe played at his 2001 level in 00 and 02?
#2. Peak Shaq would always have 3-4 sets of eyes on him and 2-3 defenders on him at all times.
He kept opposing defenses off balance and made it so Kobe got constant single coverage.
That combined with some horrible perimeter defenses they faced (Spurs) allowed him to boost his overall averages.
What I am saying is Kobe wasn't quite on the level as his stats might make you think he was.
He was given the perfect/ideal situation to dominate and win but put Carter, T-Mac or Allen on that team and they will most likely replicate something similar to his numbers and success.

Yes he was a sidekick despite putting up Super-Star numbers.
He was still "playing off of" a vastly superior player.
His impact and contributions weren't even close to O'neals.

I don't mean to take away credit from him.
He still gets credit for the Ring and he was a Super-Star... but he was still a supporting player, O'neal was the engine for that team.

Gasol in 2010 was better then 2002 Kobe and thus 2000 Kobe also and Odom was much better then anyone else Shaq had on those rosters and the West was much weaker in the late 00's

Not even bringing up the rule changes in 05 which made it much easier for wing players.

Gasol was definitely a Top 5-7 player in 2010.
Both him and Kobe were border-line Top 5 after LBJ/Wade and Dwight/Durant.

Even if he was Top 2 though that has nothing to do with his level of play and contributions.

Was Kobe Top 5 in 2002...?
--------
Shaq
Duncan
T-Mac
KG
Dirk

Nope.
He is right outside though.

Andrew32
09-30-2012, 04:13 AM
NBA 2010 finals


Gasol was better in Game 1 or tie at worst.

G1.
----------
Gasol : 23 / 14 (8 0ffensive) / 3 / 3BPG | 57% shooting
Kobe : 30 / 7 / 6 | 45% shooting



Regular Season PER / WShares
Gasol : 22.9 ||| 11
Kobe : 21.9 ||| 9.4

Playoff PER / WShares
Gasol : 24 ||| 4.7
Kobe : 24.7 ||| 3.6
___________________________________________

Gasol VS Kobe (2010 Playoffs)

OKC :
-------
Gasol : 20 / 12 / 4apg / 1.5bpg on 53% FG / 58%TS
Kobe : 23 / 4 / 4apg on 40%FG / 50%TS

Edge : Gasol >>>>> Kobe
---------------------------------------

Denver :
Gasol : 24 / 15 / 3apg / 3bpg on 61%FG / 68%TS

---------------------------------------

Finals (4 Wins) :
--------------
Gasol : 19 / 14 (6ORB) / 5APG / 2.5BPG on 46% shooting + 7 TOV
Kobe : 26 / 10 / 3.75APG / 2SPG on 37% shooting + 11 TOV

DanG
09-30-2012, 04:27 AM
Why are you only focusing on 2001?
What about 2000 and 2002?

#1. Should we just pretend Kobe played at his 2001 level in 00 and 02?
#2. Peak Shaq would always have 3-4 sets of eyes on him and 2-3 defenders on him at all times.
He kept opposing defenses off balance and made it so Kobe got constant single coverage.
That combined with some horrible perimeter defenses they faced (Spurs) allowed him to boost his overall averages.
What I am saying is Kobe wasn't quite on the level as his stats might make you think he was.
He was given the perfect/ideal situation to dominate and win but put Carter, T-Mac or Allen on that team and they will most likely replicate something similar to his numbers and success.

Yes he was a sidekick despite putting up Super-Star numbers.
He was still "playing off of" a vastly superior player.
His impact and contributions weren't even close to O'neals.

I don't mean to take away credit from him.
He still gets credit for the Ring and he was a Super-Star... but he was still a supporting player, O'neal was the engine for that team.

Gasol in 2010 was better then 2002 Kobe and thus 2000 Kobe also and Odom was much better then anyone else Shaq had on those rosters and the West was much weaker in the late 00's

Not even bringing up the rule changes in 05 which made it much easier for wing players.

Gasol was definitely a Top 5-7 player in 2010.
Both him and Kobe were border-line Top 5 after LBJ/Wade and Dwight/Durant.

Even if he was Top 2 though that has nothing to do with his level of play and contributions.

Was Kobe Top 5 in 2002...?
--------
Shaq
Duncan
T-Mac
KG
Dirk

Nope.
He is right outside though.


I was actually talking about the 2010 playoffs where Kobe averaged 29-6-5.5.

DanG
09-30-2012, 04:30 AM
Gasol was better in Game 1 or tie at worst.

G1.
----------
Gasol : 23 / 14 (8 0ffensive) / 3 / 3BPG | 57% shooting
Kobe : 30 / 7 / 6 | 45% shooting /


30/7/6 on .455% shooting/90%ft 39minutes
23/14/3/3/57%shooting 47minutes

Andrew32
09-30-2012, 04:34 AM
I was actually talking about the 2010 playoffs where Kobe averaged 29-6-5.5.

No.
Lebron and Wade were clearly better in 2010.
Then you have Dwight/Durant + maybe Dirk and maybe some others I am forgetting.

I don't think Kobe was better then Gasol that year although they were toe and toe with eachother.

Kobe wasn't very good in 2010.
He was amazing against Denver in the playoffs but Gasol was just as good if not better.
He was amazing against Phoenix and easily the best player for LAL in that series.

However he stunk against OKC and Gasol had to carry them
In the Finals Gasol significantly outplayed him in the 4 wins.

In regards to the losses they were about equal.
Gasol was better in the G2 loss by far.
In the G4 loss Kobe was probably slightly better but it was close.
In the G5 loss Kobe was much better but Gasol didn't get many touches and he had a pretty decent game considering that. Kobe tried to do it all that game.

Overall considering Gasol was significantly better on average over the 4 wins and was by far the MVP in G7 is enough for me to say he was my FMVP.

Kobe's slight edge in his play in the losses isn't nearly enough to change my mind on that.

I am not saying it isn't debatable though.
Overall their contributions in the Finals were close.

I personally side with Gasol though.

C-Style
09-30-2012, 04:35 AM
Right now top 15, if he wins a couple of more rings top 10 if he can get a mvp trophy top 5. In the history the nba he ranks 6th in player efficency rating
1.jordan
2. Lebron
3.shaq
4.David robinson
5.wilt
6.wade

at the end of his career he will prolly rank between 6-10 on the all time greatest list. He is often underrated for what he does on the court. hes had an unbelieveable career and people are starting to talk as if its over he still has a lot left in the tank. at least 5more years playing at the elite level he has played at.

negged :facepalm:

Andrew32
09-30-2012, 04:35 AM
30/7/6 on .455% shooting/90%ft 39minutes
23/14/3/3/57%shooting 47minutes

Good point there, I never noticed that.

C-Style
09-30-2012, 04:45 AM
I think if he were to maintain current production and get 2 more titles with the Heat core then you could make a case for him ranking as high as Kobe. Primarily because Kobe wasn't 'the man' for most of his titles either (they have both been option 2). Didn't the guy post the highest average PER ever during the 2006 finals while bringing the heat their first ship? Pretty legendary.

A lot of people on here are thinking he's going into a major regression, and I see where they are coming from, but if he can keep from declining for just a few more years he'll be up there in the top 15 I think.

Thanks Troll for turning this into a Kobe/Wade debate

Andrew32
09-30-2012, 04:47 AM
Just let this thread die.
It has been DE-railed and I don't want a pointless Kobe/Wade debate.

C-Style
09-30-2012, 04:49 AM
Kobe's Numbers as a starter are:

972 games

28 ppg
6 rpg
5 apg
2 spg
1 bpg
3,11 topg
39 mpg

Playoffs

188 games

27 ppg
5 rpg
5 apg
2 spg
1 bpg
3 topg
42 mpg


Just food for thought

C-Style
09-30-2012, 04:50 AM
Just let this thread die.
It has been DE-railed and I don't want a pointless Kobe/Wade debate.

This

charlies_angels
09-30-2012, 11:01 AM
Top 20, I like the way he plays.

DR_1
09-30-2012, 11:33 AM
Heat fans are so funnny :laugh2:

naps
09-30-2012, 11:34 AM
Easily Top 20.

KnickNyKnick
09-30-2012, 11:42 AM
top 100

KeepMonta#8
09-30-2012, 12:24 PM
end of the day top 20, not overated or underated right where he should be has a chance to be the the 3rd best shooting guard alltime

MetroMan
09-30-2012, 01:01 PM
Best SG Of All Time

1-Jordan
2- Kobe
3- Jerry West
4- George Gervin
5- Allen Iverson
6- Clyde Drexler
7- Dywane Wade

MetroMan
09-30-2012, 01:04 PM
Best SG Of All Time

1-Jordan
2- Kobe
3- Jerry West
4- George Gervin
5- Allen Iverson
6- Clyde Drexler
7- Dywane Wade

Any one that has a problem with this list is purely biased. The only thing you can argue is that wade should be ranked higher than Iverson.

Swashcuff
09-30-2012, 01:07 PM
Easily Top 20.

LeBron is easily top 20 Wade is in the argument for 20 there is a difference.

Swashcuff
09-30-2012, 01:10 PM
Best SG Of All Time

1-Jordan
2- Kobe
3- Jerry West
4- George Gervin
5- Allen Iverson
6- Clyde Drexler
7- Dywane Wade

Why not Gervin? Wade was 10x the player Gervin was defensively and just as offensively at his best.

Are you trying to say that you are without bias? Thousands of others are without bias and they see Wade as better than Clyde, Gervin and A.I.

MetroMan
09-30-2012, 01:12 PM
My one gripe with Wade is his all-time rankings in statistical categories.

Right now he's not in the top 100 in scoring, assists, steals. Not in the top 250 in rebounding.

He'll be in the top 20 when all is said and done though. As of this moment, I'd say he's 20-30.

this is why swashcuff. but I would not say he is top 20

Swashcuff
09-30-2012, 01:19 PM
this is why swashcuff. but I would not say he is top 20

What's your view on Peak/Prime vs Career stats? What about quality of accolades over quantity? I'm arguing A.I. over Wade in the comparisons forum as we speak but honestly if you ask me Wade is better and I'm saying that with bias. Personally I don't have him top 20 but I won't say if someone doesn't think he's better than Clyde or Gervin that they are bias.

Personally I view Peak/Prime over career numbers. I'll understand your POV if you don't however.

b@llhog24
09-30-2012, 01:34 PM
LeBron is easily top 20 Wade is in the argument for 20 there is a difference.

+1. His prime years can go to dinner with just about anyones but I think his decline is going to be relatively ugly.

Quinnsanity
09-30-2012, 01:46 PM
Best SG Of All Time

1-Jordan
2- Kobe
3- Jerry West
4- George Gervin
5- Allen Iverson
6- Clyde Drexler
7- Dywane Wade

This list pretty much hits the nail on the head. You could argue West still is ahead of Kobe (I wouldn't, but the argument could be made), but otherwise this is how I'd rank these guys.

Showtime Steve
09-30-2012, 02:00 PM
Top 300 definitely!

JordansBulls
09-30-2012, 03:30 PM
Best SG Of All Time

1-Jordan
2- Kobe
3- Jerry West
4- George Gervin
5- Allen Iverson
6- Clyde Drexler
7- Dywane Wade

Bad list. First off Gervin wasn't better than Drexler or Iverson yet alone Wade. What is the furthest Gervin ever led a team in the NBA as the man?

b@llhog24
09-30-2012, 03:47 PM
1)MJ
2)West
3)Kobe
4)Magic
5)Oscar
6)Stockton
7)LeBron
8)Bird
9)Dr J
10)Duncan
11)KG
12)Barkley
13)Mailman
14)Wilt
15)Shaq
16)Kaj
17)Hakeem
18)Russell
19)Moses
20)Robinson

You could probably argue Stockton and Dr J off that list but then you could also throw guys like Baylor, Clyde and Dirk in the mix. He's top 25 if you ask me though.

JordansBulls
09-30-2012, 03:49 PM
1)MJ
2)West
3)Kobe
4)Magic
5)Oscar
6)Stockton
7)LeBron
8)Bird
9)Dr J
10)Duncan
11)KG
12)Barkley
13)Mailman
14)Wilt
15)Shaq
16)Kaj
17)Hakeem
18)Russell
19)Moses
20)Robinson

You could probably argue Stockton and Dr J off that list but then you could also throw guys like Baylor, Clyde and Dirk in the mix. He's top 25 if you ask me though.

Wait is this your top 20 players list in order all time?:confused:

b@llhog24
09-30-2012, 03:54 PM
Wait is this your top 20 players list in order all time?:confused:

Yea.

Bruno
09-30-2012, 03:54 PM
Just let this thread die.
It has been DE-railed and I don't want a pointless Kobe/Wade debate.

you're the one who fed into the trolls. you participated in its de-railing.

Bruno
09-30-2012, 03:56 PM
LeBron is easily top 20 Wade is in the argument for 20 there is a difference.

x2.

Andrew32
09-30-2012, 03:58 PM
you're the one who fed into the trolls. you participated in its de-railing.

Eh... even the best of us make mistakes. :p

JordansBulls
09-30-2012, 04:04 PM
Yea.

That list is horrible bro

How is West, Oscar, Stockton ahead of guys like Kareem, Russell, Hakeem, Duncan, etc?

DanG
09-30-2012, 04:07 PM
That list is horrible bro

How is West, Oscar, Stockton ahead of guys like Kareem, Russell, Hakeem, Duncan, etc?

He is trolling.

b@llhog24
09-30-2012, 04:13 PM
that list is horrible bro

how is west, oscar, stockton ahead of guys like kareem, russell, hakeem, duncan, etc?

hca.

DanG
09-30-2012, 04:13 PM
hca.

:laugh:

JordansBulls
09-30-2012, 04:20 PM
hca.

Then that is inaccurate because Russell would be 2nd on the list. And Stockton wouldn't be anywhere near the top 10 as he lost as many times with HCA as anyone.

b@llhog24
09-30-2012, 04:21 PM
Then that is inaccurate because Russell would be 2nd on the list. And Stockton wouldn't be anywhere near the top 10 as he lost as many times with HCA as anyone.

Yea but stockton didn't run to play with another player who won before as the man.

b@llhog24
09-30-2012, 04:22 PM
:laugh:

:shush: Don't spoil it. ;)

JordansBulls
09-30-2012, 04:27 PM
Yea but stockton didn't run to play with another player who won before as the man.

He still lost with HCA at least 7 times and even with another top 15 player all time. 1987, 1989, 1990, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2001

CousinsEvansDUO
09-30-2012, 04:38 PM
How is Dwade rated so good but Tyreke evans plays as good as he does and he doesnt even get any credit? FG% is only different because of coaches and support cast. If Tyreke was on the heat he would post better stats than wade. Nobody on the kings can hit an open shot let alone a mid range shot, the heat is full of perimeter shooters though yet wade sucks long range too. IMO tyreke is even a more creative driver than wade and a better ball handler. Cant wait for his improved athleticism to rock the league this season.

DanG
09-30-2012, 04:41 PM
How is Dwade rated so good but Tyreke evans plays as good as he does and he doesnt even get any credit? FG% is only different because of coaches and support cast. If Tyreke was on the heat he would post better stats than wade. Nobody on the kings can hit an open shot let alone a mid range shot, the heat is full of perimeter shooters though yet wade sucks long range too. IMO tyreke is even a more creative driver than wade and a better ball handler. Cant wait for his improved athleticism to rock the league this season.

Wade is a top 5 player right now, Evans is I don't know... top 50?

DanG
09-30-2012, 04:46 PM
How is Dwade rated so good but Tyreke evans plays as good as he does and he doesnt even get any credit? FG% is only different because of coaches and support cast. If Tyreke was on the heat he would post better stats than wade. Nobody on the kings can hit an open shot let alone a mid range shot, the heat is full of perimeter shooters though yet wade sucks long range too. IMO tyreke is even a more creative driver than wade and a better ball handler. Cant wait for his improved athleticism to rock the league this season.

Wade was consistantly shooting 48% before Bosh and LBJ.

b@llhog24
09-30-2012, 04:49 PM
He still lost with HCA at least 7 times and even with another top 15 player all time. 1987, 1989, 1990, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2001

It doesn't matter as the weren't on a winning organization (Lakers, Celtics) so they couldn't possibly win a ship.

ATX
09-30-2012, 04:56 PM
How is Dwade rated so good but Tyreke evans plays as good as he does and he doesnt even get any credit? FG% is only different because of coaches and support cast. If Tyreke was on the heat he would post better stats than wade. Nobody on the kings can hit an open shot let alone a mid range shot, the heat is full of perimeter shooters though yet wade sucks long range too. IMO tyreke is even a more creative driver than wade and a better ball handler. Cant wait for his improved athleticism to rock the league this season.

First of all get back to us once Evans wins a couple of rings and a finals MVP. I seriously doubt Evans peak will be anywhere even remotely near Wades, not to mention accolades and as for the bold, well it's irrelevant.

ThuglifeJ
09-30-2012, 04:57 PM
LMAO!!!! these heat fans are RIDICULOUS lol Wade is top 30-40 "at best", and the notion that he is the 3rd best SG of all time is laughable, hes a shooting guard that cant shoot

RIGHT! I CANT STAND IT

to literally 95% of the Heat fanbase please find a way to do everyone a favor and just not post biased opinions, particularly about the HEAT and its players, who are NOT undeniable gods by any means.

stop overhyping Wade, because you're honestly making me start to not like him, and hes not the 2nd best SG of ALL TIME, and hes not top 15/10 with another ring/5 with another mvp (whoever said that on page 2 (idiot)), you guys all cheer and are apologetic about your players like you are CHILDREN, but I know you're not. so stop

to another thread they DO act like it's the most epic thing ever whenever Wade/Bosh/Lebron scores and it's not "getting hyped" It's unprofessional/obnoxious/immature/ and flat out just as annoying as your posts.

seriously reading through the first 2 pages was ridiculous. and everytime I thought "I guarentee if I keep scrolling I'm going to see a Heat logo in the signature" and then there it is.

you guys SUCK as fans. possibly the worst I've ever encountered or read posts from.

/in before 'haha NO WERE NOT you're just mad we won the ship! sorry our players are so unselfish they took paycuts! you HAVE to respect it. you can hate them but at least aknowledge the greatest duo of all time ;). HEAT GO HAM! Drake even thinks so, he could be the greatest rapper..maybe ever now? after that heat reference in a song?"

JesusWears24
09-30-2012, 05:03 PM
This is just a thread for Heat fans to try and hint that Wade is the best ever, but they do in a way where they seem like they are just trolling but the sad thing is that they believe it. Heat Fans are a disgrace to basketball

ThuglifeJ
09-30-2012, 05:36 PM
btw hes around 40. and hes declining you can tell and his game is far from polished he's a shooting guard who can't shoot. So I'm not expecting much

drobe86
09-30-2012, 05:46 PM
DWade is very much in decline.. He's a top 15 player in the NBA still, and I give him a decent shot to get to the Hall, though he never really could shoot. I admire him for getting in the paint the way he does though.

Corey
09-30-2012, 05:48 PM
I dont think I'd have him cracking the top 20.

Chronz
09-30-2012, 05:52 PM
Id rather have the flash in the pan than a steady guy like Reggie so I have Wade in the top 20 pretty easily

JordansBulls
09-30-2012, 05:54 PM
It doesn't matter as the weren't on a winning organization (Lakers, Celtics) so they couldn't possibly win a ship.

How so?

MJ, Isiah, Hakeem, Duncan led franchises that never won anything prior to them arriving to multiple titles. Why couldn't Malone/Stockton led a franchise to one title? Dirk, Wade, Barry have done that.

abe_froman
09-30-2012, 06:01 PM
top 30 without thinking that hard on the list

seikou8
09-30-2012, 06:41 PM
top25-30 but he has time to go up in more into the top 20

ATX
09-30-2012, 07:16 PM
btw hes around 40. and hes declining you can tell and his game is far from polished he's a shooting guard who can't shoot. So I'm not expecting much

Your only a full decade off.

bucketss
09-30-2012, 07:34 PM
This is just a thread for Heat fans to try and hint that Wade is the best ever, but they do in a way where they seem like they are just trolling but the sad thing is that they believe it. Heat Fans are a disgrace to basketball

coming from the guy who thinks kobe is the goat:rolleyes:

Ill21
09-30-2012, 07:37 PM
Anywhere between 20 to 25

b@llhog24
09-30-2012, 07:59 PM
It doesn't matter as the weren't on a winning organization (Lakers, Celtics) so they couldn't possibly win a ship.

How so?

MJ, Isiah, Hakeem, Duncan led franchises that never won anything prior to them arriving to multiple titles. Why couldn't Malone/Stockton led a franchise to one title? Dirk, Wade, Barry have done that.

Isiah :laugh:

amos1er
09-30-2012, 08:07 PM
Anywhere from 25-20.

Captain Moroni
09-30-2012, 08:18 PM
I hate these polls, they give no other options. No way Dwayne wade is ranked in top 40 alltime. You just dicount decades of basketball making statements like that. Stupid.

Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, blah blah blah

Where do James worthy? Hakeem, Ewing, Erving, Kareem, Walton, Russell, Robertson, Wilkens, and the dozens of others fit in? You just write them all off because you never saw them play. The NBA of today is different, but not necessarily better than it was. The young fans just assume that it's better.
Take a guy like Ewing.....or Hakeem, or Parrish.....Dwight wouldn't average 15 ppg against these giants. But the young fan thinks D12 is a top 5 center alltime.
Let's wait Until careers are over then discuss "best of alltime". Or top whatever.

drobe86
09-30-2012, 08:22 PM
I hate these polls, they give no other options. No way Dwayne wade is ranked in top 40 alltime. You just dicount decades of basketball making statements like that. Stupid.

Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, blah blah blah

Where do James worthy? Hakeem, Ewing, Erving, Kareem, Walton, Russell, Robertson, Wilkens, and the dozens of others fit in? You just write them all off because you never saw them play. The NBA of today is different, but not necessarily better than it was. The young fans just assume that it's better.
Take a guy like Ewing.....or Hakeem, or Parrish.....Dwight wouldn't average 15 ppg against these giants. But the young fan thinks D12 is a top 5 center alltime.
Let's wait Until careers are over then discuss "best of alltime". Or top whatever.

Good post. People use the term Great too loosely. Dwayne Wade isn't top 50 all time. but he's still a very good player and that should count for something. I think ultimately he could be a top 50 player, though i think he is declining at this stage, and i highly doubt it.

Longhornfan1234
09-30-2012, 08:24 PM
Top 50-70.

Bruno
09-30-2012, 08:27 PM
How so?

MJ, Isiah, Hakeem, Duncan led franchises that never won anything prior to them arriving to multiple titles. Why couldn't Malone/Stockton led a franchise to one title? Dirk, Wade, Barry have done that.

nobody cares about that.

Heatcheck
09-30-2012, 08:30 PM
Good post. People use the term Great too loosely. Dwayne Wade isn't top 50 all time. but he's still a very good player and that should count for something. I think ultimately he could be a top 50 player, though i think he is declining at this stage, and i highly doubt it.

How you could look at wades career, and objectively (based on any metric) not call him top 50 is beyond me.

NJBASEBALL22
09-30-2012, 09:26 PM
What stats are you talking about?

Over the past 5 seasons, Kobe out scores Wade 27 to 26.2, out rebounds Wade 5.5 to 5.1, less TO per at 3 to 3.4 and Kobe shoots much better from the 3 and FT line as well. True Shooting and Steals per game are both very close.

And that is after Kobe played more than 780 games compared to Wade playing just over 250.

b@llhog24
09-30-2012, 10:37 PM
Over the past 5 seasons, Kobe out scores Wade 27 to 26.2, out rebounds Wade 5.5 to 5.1, less TO per at 3 to 3.4 and Kobe shoots much better from the 3 and FT line as well. True Shooting and Steals per game are both very close.

And that is after Kobe played more than 780 games compared to Wade playing just over 250.

Cool.

beliges
09-30-2012, 11:49 PM
Somewhere in the 25-30 rage Id say. He was one of the better players of his era, but there were also many great players to play during the same era and eras past.

bbblack40
10-01-2012, 01:16 AM
Did you real put Wade ahead of Kobe ...

I.. I.. Wha.. :facepalm:

did i put a ranking, did i say who was starting etc...? or did i just list 3names for each position insecure kobe fans are the worst. kobe fans hate any praise given to wade or lebron and now even kevin durant. probably the most annoying fans ever. this thread had nothing to do with kobe but they see people talkin about wade so they have to put kobe's name in the thread to feel good.

Gram
10-01-2012, 01:21 AM
Dwayne Wade.

bbblack40
10-01-2012, 01:22 AM
negged :facepalm:

oh im sorry did the facts i stated at the end offend you?

KB24PG16
10-01-2012, 02:02 AM
put it this way if you a made an all nba team for all time

15 players taking 3 at every position wade would be on that team


pg-magic, i.thomas, oscar
sg-jordan, wade, kobe
sf-bird, Lebron, Pippen
Pf-duncan, malone, KG
c-Russell, Shaq, kareem


I would have liked you to put in the poll an option for 2nd best sg or something.


did i put a ranking, did i say who was starting etc...? or did i just list 3names for each position insecure kobe fans are the worst. kobe fans hate any praise given to wade or lebron and now even kevin durant. probably the most annoying fans ever. this thread had nothing to do with kobe but they see people talkin about wade so they have to put kobe's name in the thread to feel good.

lulz the first post in this thread is a heat fan asking for a poll option for 2nd best sg essentially bringing up kobe

Andrew32
10-01-2012, 02:19 AM
Wade has arguably the 2nd best Peak/Prime out of any SG ever.

In his Prime years he was one of the most unstoppable scorers ever and could break down defenses with ease all while playing elite defense and running the offense like a pg.

He was still a great player last year... not himself due to injury but he'll bounce back this year.

If he can give us 2-3 more Super-Star level years he'll be bordering on a West type career and certainly be in the 10-20 area.

I think he'll come back strong.

xcrisisx
10-01-2012, 09:28 AM
wade will be a top 5 sg when he retires. behind jordan, kobe, jerry west, and reggie.
but he will never pass any of those!!!
just rating the players, not the resumees ;)

Heatcheck
10-01-2012, 09:48 AM
wade will be a top 5 sg when he retires. behind jordan, kobe, jerry west, and reggie.
but he will never pass any of those!!!
just rating the players, not the resumees ;)

Wade is twice the player reggie was.

Fayzon10
10-01-2012, 10:20 AM
put it this way if you a made an all nba team for all time

15 players taking 3 at every position wade would be on that team


pg-magic, i.thomas, oscar
sg-jordan, wade, kobe
sf-bird, Lebron, Pippen
Pf-duncan, malone, KG
c-Russell, Shaq, kareem I know you're a heat fan but come on now, Kobe is 2nd all time as of right now and as of right now I would not put Wade in front of Jerry West, Clyde Drexler, and George Gervin. And where's Wilt?? Behind Kareem and Shaq??? I don't know about that.

Andrew32
10-01-2012, 10:26 AM
And where's Wilt?? Behind Kareem and Shaq??? I don't know about that.
Shaq was a better player then Wilt and had a much better playoff career.

Shaq / Kareem are pretty much neck and neck for best C in terms of career value.

After that you have Russell and then Wilt/Hakeem.

Chronz
10-01-2012, 10:59 AM
Good post. People use the term Great too loosely. Dwayne Wade isn't top 50 all time. but he's still a very good player and that should count for something. I think ultimately he could be a top 50 player, though i think he is declining at this stage, and i highly doubt it.

You cannot name 30 better careers than Wade at this point and thats being generous. Dear god man not even top 50? Thats essentially saying a guy like Elvin Hayes has had a better career, do you even know your history?

superior
10-01-2012, 11:24 AM
LMAO!!!! these heat fans are RIDICULOUS lol Wade is top 30-40 "at best", and the notion that he is the 3rd best SG of all time is laughable, hes a shooting guard that cant shoot


Give me 30-35 players better than him. I know you can't so stfu!

im not going to sit here and type out 30 different names, i have a dayjob papo, wade aint top 30, get over it

DerekCzajkowski
10-01-2012, 11:26 AM
Of all time hes in the 40 to 50 range

Chronz
10-01-2012, 11:52 AM
LMAO!!!! these heat fans are RIDICULOUS lol Wade is top 30-40 "at best", and the notion that he is the 3rd best SG of all time is laughable, hes a shooting guard that cant shoot


Give me 30-35 players better than him. I know you can't so stfu!

im not going to sit here and type out 30 different names, i have a dayjob papo, wade aint top 30, get over it
Get a phone, listing names isn't hard

bbblack40
10-01-2012, 11:54 AM
lulz the first post in this thread is a heat fan asking for a poll option for 2nd best sg essentially bringing up kobe

1st of all I'm Pretty sure he never said kobe's name 2nd of all no one is debating if kobe is is higher on the list the thread is where people rank dwade. Wade is in that 15-20 range while kobe is in the 6-10 range. I can give props where props are due. I don't have to tear sum1 down in order build sum1 else which is what a lot of kobe,wade,lebron fans do to each other. Bc kobe is great doesn't mean wade isn't. People try to devalue wade accomplishment but praise kobes same accomplishments. Both won titles as 1st and 2nd options

bbblack40
10-01-2012, 11:57 AM
I know you're a heat fan but come on now, Kobe is 2nd all time as of right now and as of right now I would not put Wade in front of Jerry West, Clyde Drexler, and George Gervin. And where's Wilt?? Behind Kareem and Shaq??? I don't know about that.

Did I put a order down?no I just named 15 players on the team and jerry west and ice man and drexler aren't in wades league sorry.

Chronz
10-01-2012, 11:58 AM
I know you're a heat fan but come on now, Kobe is 2nd all time as of right now and as of right now I would not put Wade in front of Jerry West, Clyde Drexler, and George Gervin. And where's Wilt?? Behind Kareem and Shaq??? I don't know about that.

Did I put a order down?no I just named 15 players on the team and jerry west and ice man and drexler aren't in wades league sorry.
Well at least you apologized

xcrisisx
10-01-2012, 11:58 AM
Wade is twice the player reggie was.

no, you're just a heat fan

bbblack40
10-01-2012, 12:01 PM
Well at least you apologized

Well I figured you weren't gonna apologize for mentioning drexler, iceman, and west being better than wade I figured id apologize for u.

Lakerfan In NY
10-01-2012, 12:11 PM
It's amazing how Wade leapped frog so many great SG. We must not be counting the years after 2006 til now.

xxplayerxx23
10-01-2012, 12:17 PM
Meant to click 25-30. He has a case for top 20, right now Id have him in that range. Id have him at 27 right now.

JiffyMix88
10-01-2012, 12:21 PM
top 20 with flopping rules

top 100 with out flopping rules

Heatcheck
10-01-2012, 12:29 PM
It's amazing how Wade leapped frog so many great SG. We must not be counting the years after 2006 til now.


Does this mean he hasnt been very good since 06?

07 24pts 46% 6.9a 4.2 reb
08 30pts 49% 7.5a 5 reb
09 26pts 47% 6.5a 4.8 reb
10 25pts 50% 4.6a 6.4 reb
11 22pts 49% 4.6a 4.8 reb

Looks pretty elite to me.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 12:30 PM
Second best player on the 2006 championship team, are you kidding me?

Throughout the season, yes. Playoffs, no.

Heatcheck
10-01-2012, 12:33 PM
no, you're just a heat fan

no, i know basketball, and can give you plenty of reasons why reggie, a sub 20ppg player, who cant rebound, pass, block shots, or play d like wade for that matter, doesnt match up. Wade even shoots a higher fg%. you have o case for reggie.

Heatcheck
10-01-2012, 12:37 PM
How is Dwade rated so good but Tyreke evans plays as good as he does and he doesnt even get any credit? FG% is only different because of coaches and support cast. If Tyreke was on the heat he would post better stats than wade. Nobody on the kings can hit an open shot let alone a mid range shot, the heat is full of perimeter shooters though yet wade sucks long range too. IMO tyreke is even a more creative driver than wade and a better ball handler. Cant wait for his improved athleticism to rock the league this season.

Wade alone, avg 30 7 and 5 on 49%, Evans best year to date is 20ppg on 45% BIIIIG difference

Lakerfan In NY
10-01-2012, 01:02 PM
Does this mean he hasnt been very good since 06?

07 24pts 46% 6.9a 4.2 reb
08 30pts 49% 7.5a 5 reb
09 26pts 47% 6.5a 4.8 reb
10 25pts 50% 4.6a 6.4 reb
11 22pts 49% 4.6a 4.8 reb

Looks pretty elite to me.

06-07-1st round lost shot 42%
07-08-no playoffs/ hurt again.
08-09-1st round lost shot 43%
09-10-1st round lost was a beast 56% but still lost in the 1st round to ATL.

Not real Elite.

bbblack40
10-01-2012, 01:05 PM
wade will be a top 5 sg when he retires. behind jordan, kobe, jerry west, and reggie.
but he will never pass any of those!!!
just rating the players, not the resumees ;)

Jerry west and reggie were nothing but offensive players, wade kobe and jordan do everything score,defend, rebound, make plays for teammates, win like I said wade is number 6 in all time per meaning he does everything consistently. And I can't believe you said reggie. The heat have two shooting guards on their roster already above reggie. Wade and ray allen rank higher than reggie miller on the all time list

b@llhog24
10-01-2012, 01:06 PM
Does this mean he hasnt been very good since 06?

07 24pts 46% 6.9a 4.2 reb
08 30pts 49% 7.5a 5 reb
09 26pts 47% 6.5a 4.8 reb
10 25pts 50% 4.6a 6.4 reb
11 22pts 49% 4.6a 4.8 reb

Looks pretty elite to me.

06-07-1st round lost shot 42%
07-08-no playoffs/ hurt again.
08-09-1st round lost shot 43%
09-10-1st round lost was a beast 56% but still lost in the 1st round to ATL.

Not real Elite.

A Laker fan bringing up FG%? Awk.

Chronz
10-01-2012, 01:12 PM
Well at least you apologized

Well I figured you weren't gonna apologize for mentioning drexler, iceman, and west being better than wade I figured id apologize for u.
I'm not the poster your thinking of

JordansBulls
10-01-2012, 01:21 PM
How is Dwade rated so good but Tyreke evans plays as good as he does and he doesnt even get any credit? FG% is only different because of coaches and support cast. If Tyreke was on the heat he would post better stats than wade. Nobody on the kings can hit an open shot let alone a mid range shot, the heat is full of perimeter shooters though yet wade sucks long range too. IMO tyreke is even a more creative driver than wade and a better ball handler. Cant wait for his improved athleticism to rock the league this season.

Tell me this is a sick joke.

C-Style
10-01-2012, 01:37 PM
oh im sorry did the facts i stated at the end offend you?

The fact that u said he was top 15 was a joke he does NOT rank ahead of:

Robertson
Dr. J
West
M. Malone
G. Mikan

C-Style
10-01-2012, 01:45 PM
Jerry west and reggie were nothing but offensive players, wade kobe and jordan do everything score,defend, rebound, make plays for teammates, win like I said wade is number 6 in all time per meaning he does everything consistently. And I can't believe you said reggie. The heat have two shooting guards on their roster already above reggie. Wade and ray allen rank higher than reggie miller on the all time list

False. .. Jerry West was an elite defender in his day, He won 4 consecutive all-defensive teams once that award was implenented before retiring. He was also a verry good rebounder and passer and holds the all-time leading scorer in the playoffs behind MJ

Heatcheck
10-01-2012, 01:47 PM
06-07-1st round lost shot 42%
07-08-no playoffs/ hurt again.
08-09-1st round lost shot 43%
09-10-1st round lost was a beast 56% but still lost in the 1st round to ATL.

Not real Elite.

Notice the difference, mine were entire season averages, yours four were single series.
And i can easily list 4 series in which he went nuts, just like i can list a bunch of mediocre performances by other elite players with comparably ****** teams.

Heatcheck
10-01-2012, 01:48 PM
Tell me this is a sick joke.

dont you stifle his creativity.

Swashcuff
10-01-2012, 01:48 PM
06-07-1st round lost shot 42%
07-08-no playoffs/ hurt again.
08-09-1st round lost shot 43%
09-10-1st round lost was a beast 56% but still lost in the 1st round to ATL.

Not real Elite.

Is FG% the only basis by which we determine a player's value? There are way more metrics than can be used than a player's FG% in the post season when all along he didn't even play alongside a single all star calibre player.

HiphopRelated
10-01-2012, 01:49 PM
06-07-1st round lost shot 42%
07-08-no playoffs/ hurt again.
08-09-1st round lost shot 43%
09-10-1st round lost was a beast 56% but still lost in the 1st round to ATL.

Not real Elite.
compare to Kobe 04/05-08

and that last series was vs. EC champs Celtics

DanG
10-01-2012, 01:50 PM
Wade has definitely been elite for the last 6-7 years.

mightybosstone
10-01-2012, 02:09 PM
I feel like this poll is far too specific. The difference between the options is far too complex and there aren't even a "higher than 15" or "lower than 40" option. That being said, I think Wade is somewhere in the 4-7 range of top SGs of all time behind MJ, Kobe and West and in the same category as Drexler, Irving and Iverson. Personally, I would probably rank Wade fourth, barely in front of Drexler, which probably puts him somewhere in the 20-30 range. He'll never win an MVP, which I think prevents him from ever passing West or Kobe, but I think with another title or two and another 3-5 years of solid offensive production and defensive play, he could move into the 15-20 range all-time.

Lakerfan In NY
10-01-2012, 02:22 PM
Notice the difference, mine were entire season averages, yours four were single series.
And i can easily list 4 series in which he went nuts, just like i can list a bunch of mediocre performances by other elite players with comparably ****** teams.

Oh..Ok, what your saying is what makes him elite is what he does in the "regular" season.

Lakerfan In NY
10-01-2012, 02:31 PM
compare to Kobe 04/05-08

and that last series was vs. EC champs Celtics

& who beat those EC Champs anyway.

superior
10-01-2012, 02:38 PM
Get a phone, listing names isn't hard

22000 posts? i know you dont have a job

Lakerfan In NY
10-01-2012, 02:40 PM
Is FG% the only basis by which we determine a player's value? There are way more metrics than can be used than a player's FG% in the post season when all along he didn't even play alongside a single all star calibre player.

Alonzo Mourning,Shaq,GAry Payton,A. Walker, J williams, Penny Hardaway, shawn Marion, J, Oneal, James Posey. Looks like alot of allstars to me.

Lakersfan2483
10-01-2012, 02:43 PM
D. Wade is somewhere in the top 40 players of all time and top 5 in terms of all time shooting guards.

superior
10-01-2012, 02:43 PM
Alonzo Mourning,Shaq,GAry Payton,A. Walker, J williams, Penny Hardaway, shawn Marion, J, Oneal, James Posey. Looks like alot of allstars to me.

did u really just list james posey as an all-star??? C'MON SON

Lakerfan In NY
10-01-2012, 02:43 PM
A Laker fan bringing up FG%? Awk.

I know right. :D
I like to see everyone that uses stats flip out when you use a stat. Like a stats means anything without substance.

Lakerfan In NY
10-01-2012, 02:44 PM
did u really just list james posey as an all-star??? C'MON SON

You got that one kidd. lol. But he was an elite defender.

nickdymez
10-01-2012, 02:48 PM
Alonzo Mourning,Shaq,GAry Payton,A. Walker, J williams, Penny Hardaway, shawn Marion, J, Oneal, James Posey. Looks like alot of allstars to me.

Penny?

superior
10-01-2012, 02:50 PM
Alonzo Mourning,Shaq,GAry Payton,A. Walker, J williams, Penny Hardaway, shawn Marion, J, Oneal, James Posey. Looks like alot of allstars to me.


did u really just list james posey as an all-star??? C'MON SON


You got that one kidd. lol. But he was an elite defender.

lol yea he was

Swashcuff
10-01-2012, 03:09 PM
Alonzo Mourning,Shaq,GAry Payton,A. Walker, J williams, Penny Hardaway, shawn Marion, J, Oneal, James Posey. Looks like alot of allstars to me.

:laugh2:

Yeah you're a waste of time.

Swashcuff
10-01-2012, 03:13 PM
Penny?

Jason Williams

Lakerfan In NY
10-01-2012, 03:36 PM
Jason Williams

Here, I'll help you out. Delete Posey,Williams, penny, Walker. hell i'll throw in GP & your still left w/ two 1st ballot H.O.Fers.

Lakerfan In NY
10-01-2012, 03:40 PM
:laugh2:

Yeah you're a waste of time.

PS. let's keep this friendly bredren.

Swashcuff
10-01-2012, 05:01 PM
Here, I'll help you out. Delete Posey,Williams, penny, Walker. hell i'll throw in GP & your still left w/ two 1st ballot H.O.Fers.

So what if he played with HOFers? Kobe played with the most dominant C ever, the 2nd best offensive PF ever and the greatest defensive PG ever all in the same season and couldn't beat a team that had just one all star player.

Why can't you apply simple context to your argument. It matters not what those players did in the earlier years of their career at the point of playing with Dwayne Wade they were not All Star Calibre players. They were shells of their former self.

dh144498
10-01-2012, 05:53 PM
Wade at top 20 is just laughable.

at best he's 25-ish.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Tim Duncan
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Lebron James
12. Moses Malone
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Jerry West
15. Julius Erving
16. Kevin Garnett
17. Karl Malone
18. Charles Barkley
19. Elgin Baylor
20. Bob Pettit
21. John Havlicek
22. Dirk Nowitzki
23. George Mikan
24. David Robinson
25. Isiah Thomas
26. Bob Cousy
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Rick Barry
29. Dwyane Wade

Chronz
10-01-2012, 05:59 PM
Wade at top 20 is just laughable.

at best he's 25-ish.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Tim Duncan
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Lebron James
12. Moses Malone
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Jerry West
15. Julius Erving
16. Kevin Garnett
17. Karl Malone
18. Charles Barkley
19. Elgin Baylor
20. Bob Pettit
21. John Havlicek
22. Dirk Nowitzki
23. George Mikan
24. David Robinson
25. Isiah Thomas
26. Bob Cousy
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Rick Barry
29. Dwyane Wade
Mikan and Cousy dont belong but thats still 26 solid players you've mentioned. Congrats but I dont see what makes the bolded any more impressive than WADE.

Master Mind
10-01-2012, 06:30 PM
22.

Most disrespected all-time great along with Nique

Bingo

TylerSL
10-01-2012, 06:30 PM
1.MJ
2.Magic
3.Wilt
4.KAJ
5.Bird
6.Hakeem
7.Russell
8.Duncan
9.Shaq
10.Oscar
11.Kobe
12.Malone
13.David Robinson
14.Isiah
15.Moses
16.Lebron
17.Jerry West
18.Erving
19.KG
20.Barkley
21.Stockton
22.Dirk
23.Baylor
24.Wade
25.Drexler

It isnt crazy to think Wade is top 25. However, Wade isnt top 15 or anything like some say. I would say the best Wade can do is 17. IMO however, he will be 18 when he is done. He can pass West, but I'm not sure he will.

This is all asuming Wade continues his dominance and gets 1 or 2 more rings. If Wade declines from here and doesnt win another ring, he is 24 all time. Julius Erving had a massive decline in stats after his first 5 years, and we still constanly put him in the top 20, and some even put him in the top 15 all time.

Fnom11
10-01-2012, 07:14 PM
It baffles me why people rate Dirk over Wade. What accomplishments does Dirk have that Wade doesn't? I mean sure he's had a healthier career but that's about it.

MetroMan
10-01-2012, 07:17 PM
It baffles me why people rate Dirk over Wade. What accomplishments does Dirk have that Wade doesn't? I mean sure he's had a healthier career but that's about it.

be quit before dirk spanks the nba again. dirk beat teams consisting of Kobe, pau, bynum, Durant, Westbrook, Bosh, Wade and Lebron

Heatcheck
10-02-2012, 10:10 AM
Oh..Ok, what your saying is what makes him elite is what he does in the "regular" season.

Re read the post carefully, im pretty sure i said alot more than just that.

Heatcheck
10-02-2012, 10:16 AM
Alonzo Mourning,Shaq,GAry Payton,A. Walker, J williams, Penny Hardaway, shawn Marion, J, Oneal, James Posey. Looks like alot of allstars to me.

Zo-past his prime, played limited minutes for defense
Shaq-past his prime, still very very good though. not as consistent though
GP-waste of roster space
Walker-same as above. the original Heatcheck
Hardaway - I cant believe you even included him, he played like 16 games for us
Marion - Played like crap with us, definitley not a number 2 option.
JO-Only good for Defense, was a blackhole of inefficiency on offense.
Posey - was there like a year
Williams - had 2 decent years and then never hit another open 3 again.

Holydiver
10-02-2012, 10:21 AM
top 10 all time douche bag

Andrew32
10-02-2012, 10:51 AM
top 10 all time douche bag

Wade won the FOTY Award... he is hardly a douche bag.
:no:

Lakerfan In NY
10-02-2012, 11:33 AM
So what if he played with HOFers? Kobe played with the most dominant C ever, the 2nd best offensive PF ever and the greatest defensive PG ever all in the same season and couldn't beat a team that had just one all star player.

Why can't you apply simple context to your argument. It matters not what those players did in the earlier years of their career at the point of playing with Dwayne Wade they were not All Star Calibre players. They were shells of their former self.

Than why can't you apply that same agrument to what you just posted.
Most dominant C, who was injuried & on a decline, who the next yr played w/ D-wade & won a championship, So D-wade players w the most dominate center. 2nd best offensive PF, I agree he was, when he played Jordan in the finals but during his Laker yrs not even close. Greatest defensive PG ever, ok. Than if that's the case didn't the same player play with D-wade? The next yr?
Beating a team w/ one all star means absolutely nothing. The team that wanted it more won. Doesn't matter how many all-star they had. Especially that team. So, that yr they had one all-star. (who was the 2X DPOY) Mr Big shot. Rip, tayshaun, Rasheed, but they shouldn't count b/c at that point, they weren't all-stars. That was the following yrs.

Swashcuff
10-02-2012, 12:00 PM
Than why can't you apply that same agrument to what you just posted.
Most dominant C, who was injuried & on a decline, who the next yr played w/ D-wade & won a championship, So D-wade players w the most dominate center. 2nd best offensive PF, I agree he was, when he played Jordan in the finals but during his Laker yrs not even close. Greatest defensive PG ever, ok. Than if that's the case didn't the same player play with D-wade? The next yr?
Beating a team w/ one all star means absolutely nothing. The team that wanted it more won. Doesn't matter how many all-star they had. Especially that team. So, that yr they had one all-star. (who was the 2X DPOY) Mr Big shot. Rip, tayshaun, Rasheed, but they shouldn't count b/c at that point, they weren't all-stars. That was the following yrs.

So now that we have applied some context to this argument and you can relate do you now see how utterly idiotic your post was when you compared their supporting casts. The players you named had NOTHING to do with the point I made.

Shaq was the only all star (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/all_star.html) that Dwayne Wade ever played with before Chris Bosh and LeBron James everyone else were all stars way before playing with Wade or no way near being considered all stars.

Andrew32
10-02-2012, 12:02 PM
Most dominant C, who was injuried & on a decline.

Huh? :confused:

Shaq's Peak didn't end until 2004 (98-03) and he was the 2nd best player in the league after KG in 2004 and Top 2 in RAPM.

Shaq was either the best or 2nd best player every year Kobe had him.

MickeyMgl
10-02-2012, 12:18 PM
3rd greatest shooting guard of all time.

One thing to consider is that they didn't used to distinguish between point guards and shooting guards as they do today.

Still, besides the two obvious ones, and with the prevailing opinion that Oscar Robertson - though 6'5" and a scorer - would be considered a point guard today, add the following...
Jerry West
George Gervin
Clyde Drexler

Dwyane Wade might be the 6th greatest shooting guard of all time. There's a couple others that are close.

MickeyMgl
10-02-2012, 12:26 PM
Lol this is hilarious. He's not even close to top 50. I'd say top-100 at best and thats being generous. You people need to watch more of the hardcourt classics on NBA TV.

I agree to the extent that I'm not sure he's top 50, and it's ridiculous that it wasn't even given as a choice. However, he's not that far off, and I feel comfortable in saying he's closer to 50 than to 100 (and probably indeed top 50).

MickeyMgl
10-02-2012, 12:31 PM
WTF!! So a guy with a top 5 finals performance ever and finals mvp and who actually led a team that never won anything prior to him arriving to a title is maybe top 100? This is borderline trolling dude.

That so-called "top 5 finals performance" loses a lot of its zing when you consider that it was probably one of the (if not THE) worst Finals matchups ever, as evidenced by how each of those teams made dubious history the following season. Not one, but both.

Andrew32
10-02-2012, 12:36 PM
I agree to the extent that I'm not sure he's top 50, and it's ridiculous that it wasn't even given as a choice. However, he's not that far off, and I feel comfortable in saying he's closer to 50 than to 100 (and probably indeed top 50).

Ridiculous logic.
You are talking about a guy with arguably the 2nd best Peak / Prime ever at his position.
An Elite Playoff and Finals performer.

His career is rapidly approaching West's Tier and Kobe is only ahead because of durability/longevity.
Kobe has about 3-4+ All-Star level seasons over him.

In the end Wade will be the 3rd or 4th best SG ever and undoubtedly in the Top 20.

Guys like Gervin and Drexler are probably more in the 20-40 area and are clearly a Tier below Wade.

Wade will retires on West's Tier (Top 10-20).

Sad how you don't appreciate one of the best players of our generation.
Wade was the best SG in the league and a Top 1-5 player in 05, 06, 09-12.

MickeyMgl
10-02-2012, 12:36 PM
put it this way if you a made an all nba team for all time

15 players taking 3 at every position wade would be on that team


pg-magic, i.thomas, oscar
sg-jordan, wade, kobe
sf-bird, Lebron, Pippen
Pf-duncan, malone, KG
c-Russell, Shaq, kareem

Put it this way. No he would not. Nor would some of the other players you listed. That's how important it is to recognize that there have been MANY great players. If I made a 2nd team, Wade might be on that one.

Swashcuff
10-02-2012, 12:43 PM
That so-called "top 5 finals performance" loses a lot of its zing when you consider that it was probably one of the (if not THE) worst Finals matchups ever, as evidenced by how each of those teams made dubious history the following season. Not one, but both.

I don't see the logic here. Their following seasons (post seasons) really don't have anything to do with how much credit the previous year's matchup had. There are too many different things to be taken into consideration rather than just outlandishly saying that it could possibly be the worst finals matchup ever. I mean seriously do you think how could you seriously say that.

69centers
10-02-2012, 12:48 PM
Guys like Gervin and Drexler are probably more in the 20-40 area and are clearly a Tier below Wade.

Clearly only in your mind.