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View Full Version : Officiating Flopping



bholly
09-27-2012, 07:19 PM
Howard Beck ‏@HowardBeckNYT
One note from ref camp: NBA is close to finalizing policy on flopping. Will not carry in-game penalty. Will be reviewed after. Poss fine.

Thoughts? Think it'll change anything? Think they need to do more? Or less?

Mr Costanza
09-27-2012, 07:25 PM
A hefty fine maybe. Otherwise no. Should make it a T.

Raps08-09 Champ
09-27-2012, 07:30 PM
It's subjective. People only want flops when it's against players they hate. I can probably clothesline Lebron and everyone is calling for a flop. Or I hit him hard from behind, he suffers whiplash and people will be making a big deal out of it.

JNA17
09-27-2012, 07:43 PM
Should be a Tech, not a fine. Fines are nothing compared to guys like Lebron, Harden, the entire clippers team, etc.

JasonJohnHorn
09-27-2012, 07:49 PM
I don't think fines will work. I think they need to assign a tech, even if there isn't an in-game tech, the tech accumilate through the season and after so many players start to get suspended. I think the only way to put a stop to flopping is to either have instant replay to allow an in-game response, or to accumilate technicals and have players eventually suspended for doing it repeatedly.

A fine? It won't be fair to guy who make less, and guys who make more won't be deterred from doing it. Like, look at LBJ, he makes around 17 mil + endorsements which probably put him at about 50mil a year, so slapping him with a $50 000 fine, he'd be like: That's cool... I got the call in the game. But a guy playing for the league minimum, that fine is HUGE to him (well... big enough at any rate, he can't afford to do it every game).


I dunno about the fine. I mean people know they get fined for dissiing the officials in a press conference and they still do it. They got money to burn. Suspend them for a game... now that's something else. That will get people to stop fawking around and play the game.

DenButsu
09-27-2012, 07:50 PM
It's a positive sign that the league has actually finally decided to take the problem seriously, and a step in the right direction. But I do hope they'll remain open to creating harsher penalties in the future if this initial measure doesn't prove to be effective.

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-27-2012, 07:51 PM
1st flop: warning

2nd flop: fine

3rd flop: even bigger fine

4th flop: 1 game suspension + fine

Subsequent flops: 2 game suspension + fine

DenButsu
09-27-2012, 07:52 PM
Also, if the fine increases with multiple offenses I'd expect it to work a lot better.

Hawkeye15
09-27-2012, 07:53 PM
I don't want in-game crap if it involves reviewing every possible flop and making the game longer. Start fining them after the fact.

Problem is, every time the NBA tries to put forth a rule change with something as subjective as flopping, they end up being strict for the first 10-20 games, and then they resort right back to the old way of doing things.

JJ Barea is about to be fined a ton of money this upcoming season. Rudy Fernandez would need an additional $12 million per year to make it worth his time to come back to the NBA.

mikekhelxD
09-27-2012, 07:54 PM
1st flop: warning

2nd flop: fine

3rd flop: even bigger fine

4th flop: 1 game suspension + fine

Subsequent flops: 2 game suspension + fine

Maybe after 1 game, they'll have 4 flops limit already.

Slug3
09-27-2012, 07:54 PM
I see a lot of challenging of the fines.

JNA17
09-27-2012, 07:55 PM
I don't want in-game crap if it involves reviewing every possible flop and making the game longer. Start fining them after the fact.

Problem is, every time the NBA tries to put forth a rule change with something as subjective as flopping, they end up being strict for the first 10-20 games, and then they resort right back to the old way of doing things.

JJ Barea is about to be fined a ton of money this upcoming season. Rudy Fernandez would need an additional $12 million per year to make it worth his time to come back to the NBA.

So....Euro players are just screwed in general? XD

Hawkeye15
09-27-2012, 07:56 PM
So....Euro players are just screwed in general? XD

Those 2 are...

JNA17
09-27-2012, 07:57 PM
Actually why not in-game? But make each coach being able to challenge a flop 1-2 times a game? And if it's correct, the play is reserved, if not a flop, then that coach is charged with a timeout.

Basically like the NFL, but only for flops. It won't slow the game that much if the coaches are only able to challenge a limited amount of times.

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-27-2012, 07:58 PM
Maybe after 1 game, they'll have 4 flops limit already.

Maybe instead of flops, you can count it as "games". So you would just combine those 4 flops into that 1 game, unless all those flops were excessive WTF type of flops.

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-27-2012, 07:58 PM
Actually why not in-game? But make each coach being able to challenge a flop 1-2 times a game? And if it's correct, the play is reserved, if not a flop, then that coach is charged with a timeout.

Basically like the NFL, but only for flops. It won't slow the game that much if the coaches are only able to challenge a limited amount of times.

In-game is too tough since the game is so fast in real-live action.

JNA17
09-27-2012, 08:07 PM
In-game is too tough since the game is so fast in real-live action.

Yeah but we have eyes, just like the coaches and players. And its not like this game is faster than the NFL. If we see something so obvious, or something in the replay every whistle, a coach can just challenge it.

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-27-2012, 08:16 PM
Yeah but we have eyes, just like the coaches and players. And its not like this game is faster than the NFL. If we see something so obvious, or something in the replay every whistle, a coach can just challenge it.

But you also don't want so many stoppages during a basketball game for every single suspect flop. Because then, it becomes football with all the stoppages.

Shlumpledink
09-27-2012, 08:18 PM
Floppers should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

KnickaBocka.44
09-27-2012, 08:26 PM
I don't think fines will work. I think they need to assign a tech, even if there isn't an in-game tech, the tech accumilate through the season and after so many players start to get suspended. I think the only way to put a stop to flopping is to either have instant replay to allow an in-game response, or to accumilate technicals and have players eventually suspended for doing it repeatedly.

A fine? It won't be fair to guy who make less, and guys who make more won't be deterred from doing it. Like, look at LBJ, he makes around 17 mil + endorsements which probably put him at about 50mil a year, so slapping him with a $50 000 fine, he'd be like: That's cool... I got the call in the game. But a guy playing for the league minimum, that fine is HUGE to him (well... big enough at any rate, he can't afford to do it every game).


I dunno about the fine. I mean people know they get fined for dissiing the officials in a press conference and they still do it. They got money to burn. Suspend them for a game... now that's something else. That will get people to stop fawking around and play the game.

I see the point you're trying to make here, but the guys making the league minimum don't have the pull that is required to influence a ref into giving them the call. On the other hand with guys like Lebron, say he flops every other game, that adds up to over $2 million in fines for the regular season alone; enough to make him think twice about it.

JNA17
09-27-2012, 08:26 PM
But you also don't want so many stoppages during a basketball game for every single suspect flop. Because then, it becomes football with all the stoppages.

Would that be such a bad thing though?

Think about it, the NBA is sacrificing game quality for making the game faster and faster. So instead of games being called right and fair, it's countless of terrible no calls and questionable calls. Hell, their worse than the replacement refs in the NFL! :laugh:

I would honestly rather see the game take it's time being officiated correctly than seeing practically every game end in "what could and should have been" since these outcomes, whether people here believe or not, are decided by the refs. It's atrocious, but that's just the way it is right now. And i believe even something as simple as this kind of system, is a step in the right direction.

DoMeFavors
09-27-2012, 08:27 PM
Sometimes when players arent flopping its a crime to take their money.

JNA17
09-27-2012, 08:31 PM
I see the point you're trying to make here, but the guys making the league minimum don't have the pull that is required to influence a ref into giving them the call. On the other hand with guys like Lebron, say he flops every other game, that adds up to over $2 million in fines for the regular season alone; enough to make him think twice about it.

Yeah but then Lebron would say something like "All those flops I did, and the fines that I got as a result of those flops, went to charity and the starving kids in Africa. I flopped for the people, I flopped, for the rock..."

KnickaBocka.44
09-27-2012, 08:36 PM
Yeah but then Lebron would say something like "All those flops I did, and the fines that I got as a result of those flops, went to charity and the starving kids in Africa. I flopped for the people, I flopped, for the rock..."

:laugh::facepalm: --not because I disagree, but because as I was reading your post I could literally hear him saying it.

JNA17
09-27-2012, 08:40 PM
:laugh::facepalm: --not because I disagree, but because as I was reading your post I could literally hear him saying it.

Sometimes I think Lebron sounds like Rikishi a little bit. :p

NBAFan2012
09-27-2012, 11:12 PM
It's subjective. People only want flops when it's against players they hate. I can probably clothesline Lebron and everyone is calling for a flop. Or I hit him hard from behind, he suffers whiplash and people will be making a big deal out of it.

This pretty much sums it up perfectly. I appreciate it.

NBAFan2012
09-27-2012, 11:27 PM
So here is the thing and I am going to only say it once.

I am surprised this thread went 3 responses deep and I did not hear a Chris Paul joke or Clippers reference so here is the thing. There are certain guys who flop and it is a HUGE part of their game. Probably the biggest flopper in the game is Ginobli. Followed by Harden. Corey Maggette. Paul Pierce. Chris Paul. These are guys who use flopping as an offensive weapon and honestly these are the guys that should get punished. If they are as great as they make it seem (aside from Corey Maggette) they should adjust accordingly.

Now, Blake Griffin. I have followed him for a very long time, and have been a Clippers fan for an even longer time, and here is the thing with him. No one cared about him when The Clippers sucked his first year the year he got injured. In his case more than ever I agree with the notion that when you become great people will hate (see Lebron James). The reason Blake Griffin "flops" for those of you that do not watch Clippers gave (I have seen all of Blake Griffins games) is because his rookie year and early in his sophmore year he got NO CALLS. The guy would get fouled extremely hard, hit upside the head, and NOTHING WOULD EVER GET CALLED. There are a number of plays of his incredible plays that he gets fouled and there is no whistle. One instance in particular I forgot against who he went up for a two handed jam from the baseline and he got hit across the forehead and nothing was called. These are the reasons Blake "flops"... he exaggerates the contact to make the refs call it because early on they would just let him get clobbered and nothing would be called. It sucks because people already have their perception of him and he can get thrown down to the ground or body slammed and ignorant people will still find a way to blame him, or talk **** or make the teenage jokes I see so often. You know those same people that call Chris Paul the 360Flopter or what is it? Oh and these people are the same people that watch Blake Griffin highlights and think all he can do is dunk. Real NBA fans have seen his entire repertoire and the progress he has made when he is down on the block and especially in the post from his first year.

So yeah... even in the playoffs watch moments like when Zach Randolph pulls him down from the throat and nothing is called. I mean what do you want him to do? Just be choked or ****** with everytime down? People cry that he flops but these are mostly people who he has posterized, who The Clippers whooped in the playoffs, or insecure Lakers fans who seem to worry about the Clippers more than their own team. Funny thing too because you would think they would not pay attention to a team labeled "The Worst Franchise in The History of Sports" and instead focus on their team with all their titles and whatnot....

Oh yeah... Kevin Love sucks. The Wolves will not make the playoffs because he sucks, and people will not realize Kevin Love sucks and is generic until he goes to a real team and he becomes the 3rd or 4th best player and he makes that team suck because he sucks.

Edit*** Oh yeah Andre Igoudala sucks too. Am I missing something? It has to be one of the biggest enigmas how Igoudala and Kevin Love are even mentioned in the same sentence as current NBA superstars it is really amazing. Hopefully with a new team Igoudalas suckiness will show more than ever and Nuggets fans will regret getting excited about him like he was good. I mean remember when Lakers fans wanted him? Like he was good? I mean its truly amazing. Just watch Kevin Love and Igoudala on the USA Team they dont even go. Including these two would be like a team with Isiah Thomas, Kobe, Jordan, Karl Malone and Shaq having Tyrone Nesby (Igoudala) and a generic white guy that shoots 3s (there are a whole ton) coming off the bench.
Good day.

Hotone1401
09-27-2012, 11:40 PM
Chris Paul and Blake Griffin are going to be paying a lot out of pocket this upcoming season.

Gram
09-27-2012, 11:49 PM
1st flop: warning

2nd flop: fine

3rd flop: even bigger fine

4th flop: 1 game suspension + fine

Subsequent flops: 2 game suspension + fine

No warnings.

Hotone1401
09-27-2012, 11:51 PM
I still don't agree with only penalizing players after the game. I know it's a tough call without review but I hate that they are allowing these plays to affect the outcome of games.

diu9leilomo
09-27-2012, 11:57 PM
fine is good enough..its hard for the officials to make the call...theres a lot of oscar winners in the league...if the refs keep calling, fans will complain like no tomorrow

sixer04fan
09-28-2012, 12:02 AM
Here's my suggestion: Review any suspicious flop plays after the game. Any undisputed flop counts as a separate type of illegal foul. Once a player acquires X amount of flops (maybe 3-5), they get a one game suspension.

I like the idea of reviewing after the games. To handle it during the game to look at replays will just slow the game down, upset the fans, take the players out of their rhythm, etc.

I don't know if fines are going to have an effect on what players do in the game, so I wouldn't bother with that. Fines are nothing to these players anyways, unless we're talking about like major financial penalties, which also seems ridiculous. No one should be getting $10k + fines for a flop, even if it is really bad for the integrity of the game.

I don't like an automatic suspension for a flop either, seems too severe. And for it to count as a technical after the fact doesn't seem harsh enough, since as many players would never acquire enough technicals to get a suspension.

So that's why my idea is the best. Recognize.

Iggz53
09-28-2012, 12:18 AM
Suspend their *****. There shouldn't be any room for it in the NBA, which is losing a lot of integrity because of things like this.

The goods
09-28-2012, 12:37 AM
Fines techs the whole nine yards I can't stand flopping.

amos1er
09-28-2012, 01:07 AM
This is not enough. More needs to be done. Hopefully this is a first step and the NBA actually follows through.

IDunknown
09-28-2012, 01:19 AM
It's subjective. People only want flops when it's against players they hate. I can probably clothesline Lebron and everyone is calling for a flop. Or I hit him hard from behind, he suffers whiplash and people will be making a big deal out of it.

LeBron flopped on that Chandler screen,I'm surprised he didn't wink at the camera again on that one.

NYKGuY
09-28-2012, 01:42 AM
Those 2 are...

Well one for sure is rudy gay. But I'm not sure he's still in the league.

Vinny642
09-28-2012, 03:30 AM
glad nba is doing something

SteBO
09-28-2012, 06:14 AM
This is not enough. More needs to be done. Hopefully this is a first step and the NBA actually follows through.
I don't know what you'd want them do. I don't think much outside of issuing a tech should be done, and even that might be pushing it since its a subjective call in real time barring the blatantly obvious ones.

I do agree with fining players for it though.

xcrisisx
09-28-2012, 07:49 AM
Here's my suggestion: Review any suspicious flop plays after the game. Any undisputed flop counts as a separate type of illegal foul. Once a player acquires X amount of flops (maybe 3-5), they get a one game suspension.

I like the idea of reviewing after the games. To handle it during the game to look at replays will just slow the game down, upset the fans, take the players out of their rhythm, etc.

I don't know if fines are going to have an effect on what players do in the game, so I wouldn't bother with that. Fines are nothing to these players anyways, unless we're talking about like major financial penalties, which also seems ridiculous. No one should be getting $10k + fines for a flop, even if it is really bad for the integrity of the game.

I don't like an automatic suspension for a flop either, seems too severe. And for it to count as a technical after the fact doesn't seem harsh enough, since as many players would never acquire enough technicals to get a suspension.

So that's why my idea is the best. Recognize.

yeah since players like manu, varejao, fish and bron would be broke at the end of the season

Knicks21
09-28-2012, 08:04 AM
Jeff Van Gundy is the ring leader of this opposition.

JNoel
09-28-2012, 08:16 AM
Good thing Spain doesn't play in the nba. Their country is already in danger of collapsing as it is.

Slug3
09-28-2012, 10:01 AM
But what are they going to call flopping though? I mean a lot of stars scream when they drive the ball in to get a call. Some take contact and jerk their neck back to oversell it. Is it just going to be someone who dives on the floor with no contact?

Lakers4life08
09-28-2012, 11:16 AM
so players can flop as much as the want,just NBA wanna make little bit of money of this thing???ok

Lakerfan In NY
09-28-2012, 12:02 PM
In-game is too tough since the game is so fast in real-live action.

Not really IMO. You want to stop flopping? Stop rewarding teams for soft play. Put the benefit of the doubt back to the offensive players. Like in football, baseball when the tie goes to the offensive players. Somewhere during the yrs, we started rewarding players for acting. I think it started w/ the charge circle.

MrfadeawayJB
09-28-2012, 01:20 PM
How about NBA refs just dont be so quick to assume contact was the reason a player fell. Refs can tell sometimes when it is a obvious flop. If a player flops in the post, maybe the refs should just let a guy dunk on them and embarass them. Maybe that with a combination of fines will help the problem

jericho
09-28-2012, 03:01 PM
Fining won't solve the issue cuz times this flops can determine the outcome of a game and like somebody else said the star players can you throw that money like nothing give the coaches 3 chances to challenge a call a game and review the questionable calls at the end of the game and give them a tech it will accumulate and players will get suspended for it while also keeping the fines

da ThRONe
09-28-2012, 05:49 PM
Or how about they tell the refs to stop being influenced by a players body language after contact and just make a decision on what they see. If players stop getting the calls they'll stop flopping on every play. If you flop all night and your defensive assignment goes for 40 they'll stop that nonsense.