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Jesse2272
09-25-2012, 05:55 AM
Just as it’s easy to start handing out 2013 championships rings to the Lakers in September, it’s also oddly not difficult to downplay their roster.

Steve Nash is old, Dwight Howard has a dreaded back problem, Kobe shoots like he’s still playing with Smush and Kwame, and Pau Gasol might not play hard for months at a time. To some, they look like a super team.

To others, they look like the 2003-04 Lakers all over again. Even Laker legend James Worthy thinks the team is getting a little too much credit right now.

While Big Game James seems to believe L.A. will take out OKC in the Western Conference, he told The Los Angeles Times that Miami still has an edge as the best in the league.

They have shooters, they now have the experience of getting it done, and they have LeBron. Overall, perhaps the Lakers have an advantage in talent, but Miami’s parts seem to fit better.

It doesn’t help that the Heat have owned – repeat: owned – the Lakers since they added ‘Bron and Chris Bosh. Those Deebo tactics Metta World Peace uses on everyone else? Yeah, they ain’t working on LeBron …

http://dimemag.com/2012/09/laker-legend-says-miami-is-better-than-l-a-stephon-marbury-questions-the-knicks/

Love the MWP comment

LAL (if they get by OKC) vs MIA in the finals will be epic, I agree it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion LAL get there or win it all this year...

Andrew32
09-25-2012, 06:05 AM
I consider LAL a serious contender but far from a clear favorite to win the title or even come out of the West.

The article does bring up some good points.

I don't think the Laker offense will be as potent if Kobe remains concerned about his PPG/Point Totals.
He definitely ruined the rhythm of the teams offense and alienated his teammates at times last year with his ball dominance and chucking.

Gasol doesn't work as effectively on the perimeter. He excels playing down in the post.
Will Brown figure out a way to make sure he is used correctly...?

Nash is old but he is still a great player.
His main issue (defense) has never been a strength of his but at his age he could also get injured.

I didn't know the D12 back injury was serious... I thought it was minor.

amos1er
09-25-2012, 06:06 AM
I consider LAL a contender but far from a clear favorite to win the title or even come out of the West.

The article does bring up some good points.

I don't think the Laker offense will be as potent if Kobe remains concerned about his PPG/Point Totals.

Gasol doesn't work as effectively on the perimeter. He excels playing down in the post.
Will Brown figure out a way to make sure he is used correctly...?

Nash is old but he is still a great player.
His main issue (defense) has never been a strength of his but at his age he could get injured.

I didn't know the D12 back injury was serious... I thought it was minor.

:facepalm:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-25-2012, 06:14 AM
uh oh...of course the heat are the main favourites to win it all but cant deny the fact that the Lakers are their toughest competitors

SteBO
09-25-2012, 06:16 AM
uh oh...of course the heat are the main favourites to win it all but cant deny the fact that the Lakers are their toughest competitors
On paper, without question. Can't wait for the season to get going.

Bulls_fan90
09-25-2012, 06:47 AM
Came in expecting a Smush Parker comment. Left disappointed.

Jesse2272
09-25-2012, 06:52 AM
Came in expecting a Smush Parker comment. Left disappointed.

There was one sort of


"Kobe shoots like he’s still playing with Smush"

Dont be disapointed :D

lavilevi23
09-25-2012, 07:28 AM
Lakers won't come out of the west.

HowFit
09-25-2012, 07:35 AM
Let's see what happens with the Lakers and OKC before even discussing the Heat. I agree with this article tho...

JNoel
09-25-2012, 07:38 AM
I see the Pistons and Raptors grabbing the first and second seed respectively before the Heat.;)

Jesse2272
09-25-2012, 07:42 AM
as an NBA fan I would love to see the wolves or Nuggs pull an upset and knock off LAL or OKC in the playoffs

I love underdogs :D

UPRock
09-25-2012, 08:04 AM
And he's right, but both teams are good and can easily go to 7 games.

koreancabbage
09-25-2012, 08:34 AM
I see the Pistons and Raptors grabbing the first and second seed respectively before the Heat.;)

YES! a believer hahaha

mekedubs
09-25-2012, 09:23 AM
I consider LAL a serious contender but far from a clear favorite to win the title or even come out of the West.

The article does bring up some good points.

I don't think the Laker offense will be as potent if Kobe remains concerned about his PPG/Point Totals.
He definitely ruined the rhythm of the teams offense and alienated his teammates at times last year with his ball dominance and chucking.

Gasol doesn't work as effectively on the perimeter. He excels playing down in the post.
Will Brown figure out a way to make sure he is used correctly...?
Nash is old but he is still a great player.
His main issue (defense) has never been a strength of his but at his age he could also get injured.

I didn't know the D12 back injury was serious... I thought it was minor.

Everytime I see one of these comments, I cringe... If Gasol is in the paint, where is Howard going to be? Clanking 15ft jumpers from the perimeter? And if anyone has seen Pau play in the post they know that teams have figured him out.. All you have to do is get physical with him and make him a scorer instead of a passer because he's the best "passing" big man in the league... Not to mention one of the softest....

Heatcheck
09-25-2012, 09:39 AM
Everytime I see one of these comments, I cringe... If Gasol is in the paint, where is Howard going to be? Clanking 15ft jumpers from the perimeter? And if anyone has seen Pau play in the post they know that teams have figured him out.. All you have to do is get physical with him and make him a scorer instead of a passer because he's the best "passing" big man in the league... Not to mention one of the softest....

Same goes for dwight.

Iron24th
09-25-2012, 09:43 AM
Of course miami is the fav to repeat.

I hope it will motivate my Lakers.

PleaseBeNice
09-25-2012, 11:20 AM
some Laker fans...smh. if someone doesnt beleieve that you are either a)winning it all or b) taking the west, you label them as haters or give a face palm

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-25-2012, 11:37 AM
ok me personally, i think if kobe was a little trigger happy in the olympics with all stars at every position, including bench, what makes ppl think as if he's going to change his mentality with the lakers?

and who honestly cares? he is a shoot first guard, nothin wrong with that.

it all comes down to defense anyways, thats how miami won, because lakers will never win a shoot out with the thunder or spurs.

and dwight howard def brings that to the table.

time will tell. but they are in no way, shape, or form, favs or the "team to beat"

1. miami heat
2. okc thunder
3. lakers.

until proven otherwise.
simple as tht.

Showtime Steve
09-25-2012, 01:27 PM
All the lakers legends have said that mia and okc are better. And until we hold that title up in june, they are and should be. We dont want our heads getting too big. (See mia 1st season of big 3).

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-25-2012, 01:32 PM
Well obviously Big Game James is right here. The Lakers have yet to play a single game. Not that hard to understand things here. :shrug:

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-25-2012, 01:33 PM
some Laker fans...smh. if someone doesnt beleieve that you are either a)winning it all or b) taking the west, you label them as haters or give a face palm

You came to this thread to say this?

Dude, just worry about YOUR team and make sure they don't end up as the worst team out west....AGAIN...


These types of threads aren't for you. All you do is come here and bash Laker fans. Shoo fly shoo!

Cimos21
09-25-2012, 02:04 PM
Miami Heat are champs until proven otherwise. OKC Thunder are West Conf Champs until proven otherwise. Not much else to say. Lakers made some great moves, but none of that matters unless they go out on the court and take care of business.

I do find it comical though that there are a lot of comparisons to the 2003-04 team, which is really a totally different team and situation, but the funny thing is that everyone makes it sound like the 2003-04 team was worse than the Wizards last year. 56 wins and a Finals trip is not bad - I know they were supposed to win it all, but even a Laker fan can't complain about losing in the finals.

diu9leilomo
09-25-2012, 02:35 PM
on paper:

rio<nash
kobe(as of now) = wade
lebron > MWP
bosh > gasol(age)
whoever the C is < howard

BUT the whole laker bench are scrubs, not to mention allen > jamison

heat seems the winner on paper....

C-Style
09-25-2012, 02:57 PM
Good, this should help the Lakers stay motivated to beat the Heat even more.

naps
09-25-2012, 03:40 PM
He's 100% right. Let them play first and then judge. As of now it's Miami, OKC, LA in that order for me.

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-25-2012, 03:40 PM
on paper:

rio<nash
kobe(as of now) = wade
lebron > MWP
bosh > gasol(age)
whoever the C is < howard

BUT the whole laker bench are scrubs, not to mention allen > jamison

heat seems the winner on paper....

That's not how the NBA works as it's ultimately a team game and how you execute down the stretch as a team both offensively and defensively.


What's up with this > and < comparisons. What are you, 12? :facepalm:

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-25-2012, 03:41 PM
He's 100% right. Let them play first and then judge. As of now it's Miami, OKC, LA in that order for me.

Agree, no doubt. LA has to prove a lot, especially while instilling Eddie Jordan's Princeton Offense, and Mike Brown has a whole lot to prove as the head coach, because if we don't win it, he's good as gone.

Hoopsadvocate
09-25-2012, 03:46 PM
on paper:

rio<nash
kobe(as of now) = wade
lebron > MWP
bosh > gasol(age)
whoever the C is < howard

BUT the whole laker bench are scrubs, not to mention allen > jamison

heat seems the winner on paper....

That's not how the NBA works as it's ultimately a team game and how you execute down the stretch as a team both offensively and defensively.


What's up with this > and < comparisons. What are you, 12? :facepalm:

Right it's a team game. And the HEAT team has already proven to work great as a team because they have willing passers as superstars and great role-players complimenting them.

Meanwhile the lakers dont have any proof they will work well as a team. Have 2 of the least willing passers at their positions (kobe/howard) and a lack of role players to compliment them outside of Steve Nash.

amos1er
09-25-2012, 03:59 PM
Big Game James is just trying to motivate Laker management into making the bench better. Jimmy probably feels that he has spent enough money, but all the Lakers have is Ebank to back up Metta and that is terrible!!! They need to sign a better back up sf/sg such as Barbosa, Pietrus, or even T-Mac. This is not the time to be cheap Jimmy!!!

Bruno
09-25-2012, 04:02 PM
Miami is the team to beat, they are the champions.

todu82
09-25-2012, 04:04 PM
Agreed. The Heat's core are younger than the Laker's core. Still think this will be an epic finals match if these clubs should meet.

Lakerhead4ever
09-25-2012, 04:08 PM
The lakers can win it all, but they can also lose to the thunder or heat and I wouldn't be surprised.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if the celtics beat the heat. People are sleeping on the celtics. They got better and remain hungry as they were in 08. Terry was a huge addition.

LaLa_Land
09-25-2012, 04:11 PM
That's not how the NBA works as it's ultimately a team game and how you execute down the stretch as a team both offensively and defensively.


What's up with this > and < comparisons. What are you, 12? :facepalm:

that was the most rediculous analysis i've ever seen in my life. how can you say the lakers bench is scrubs? Jamison just averaged 17 ppg, Meeks is a young athlete that can gun from 3 averaged 9 ppg, Hill averaged 10&10 in the playoffs, Ebanks plays pretty good D on Durant.

do some research, and take some basic english classes before posting please.

As for the actual thread:

The heat are for sure the best team in the league as of now. They won a title and made some decent acquisitions.

I think the Lakeshow is tied with the Thunder right now. But guys, please don't underestimate the Steve Nash effect. This guy is arguably the best PG in NBA history. He is redicously efficient and is always loved/trusted by all.

D-Block21-Chito
09-25-2012, 04:59 PM
Nets vs lakers lakers win it all

--23--
09-25-2012, 06:01 PM
seem like this is motivation for the Lakers.

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-25-2012, 06:10 PM
seem like this is motivation for the Lakers.

The motivation comes from wanting to surpass the Celtics in championships while the iconic Dr. Jerry Buss is owner while having one of the most decorated athletes and icons in the history of sports, Kobe Bryant, wearing the Purple&Gold.

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-25-2012, 06:10 PM
wow laker fans......bunch of sensitive dickheads

Grow up.


You're Welcome.

C-Style
09-25-2012, 07:19 PM
wow laker fans......bunch of sensitive dickheads

deal with it :clap:

numba1CHANGsta
09-25-2012, 07:31 PM
Who cares about anyone's opinions, what matters is who wins the championship, so people should stfu and let the ball do the talking

Andrew32
09-25-2012, 07:39 PM
Everytime I see one of these comments, I cringe... If Gasol is in the paint, where is Howard going to be? Clanking 15ft jumpers from the perimeter? And if anyone has seen Pau play in the post they know that teams have figured him out.. All you have to do is get physical with him and make him a scorer instead of a passer because he's the best "passing" big man in the league... Not to mention one of the softest....

Everytime I read one of these posts "I" cringe.
Gasol has never been soft.

Did you forget 2009-2010 when Gasol was one of the best players in the entire league and banging in the paint and scoring at will VS everybody?
Did you forget him grabbing offensive rebounds at will over the likes of KG and Duncan?

Gasol is not soft... he has been forced onto the perimeter the last two years by the dumb*** that is Mike Brown and that is why his production dropped along with his consistency.

Love it or hate it but Gasol belongs in the paint and he is not afraid of contact... my god.

rex.reyesiii
09-25-2012, 08:50 PM
He's just being rational and not assuming to much till he see's who wins on June 2013


d'uh! :D

beasted86
09-25-2012, 09:14 PM
Everytime I see one of these comments, I cringe... If Gasol is in the paint, where is Howard going to be? Clanking 15ft jumpers from the perimeter? And if anyone has seen Pau play in the post they know that teams have figured him out.. All you have to do is get physical with him and make him a scorer instead of a passer because he's the best "passing" big man in the league... Not to mention one of the softest....

I don't see what he's saying that sounds cringe worthy.

With Dwight Howard playing exclusively in the paint, it turns Gasol in all likelihood into a Chris Bosh role... and let's face it, he's just not Chris Bosh. He doesn't have the same range on his jumper or consistency. He also doesn't have the same foot speed and driving ability Bosh has to convert 15 foot jumper pump fakes into a drive to the basket without drawing a charge. Not saying he's a bad jump shooter, but it's not what you really want. His point is that Mike Brown will have to figure out a way to keep Howard in the paint, and get Gasol closer shots without totally ruining floor spacing. I don't see what is cringe worthy about that.

Andrew32
09-25-2012, 09:17 PM
I don't see what he's saying that sounds cringe worthy.

With Dwight Howard playing exclusively in the paint, it turns Gasol in all likelihood into a Chris Bosh role... and let's face it, he's just not Chris Bosh. He doesn't have the same range on his jumper or consistency. He also doesn't have the same foot speed and driving ability Bosh has to convert 15 foot jumper pump fakes into a drive to the basket without drawing a charge. Not saying he's a bad jump shooter, but it's not what you really want. His point is that Mike Brown will have to figure out a way to keep Howard in the paint, and get Gasol closer shots without totally ruining floor spacing. I don't see what is cringe worthy about that.

Thank you... that is exactly what I meant.

I don't think it will necessarily be easy either but I don't think its fair to criticize Gasol for a drop in production/consistency if he is forced to remain in a role that he obviously is not that successful in.

I think Howard's superior mobility will make it easier for him to get out of the way when Gasol is posting up in the paint.

Avenged
09-25-2012, 11:30 PM
James Worthy ripped the Lakers a new one all last season from Kobe to Mike Brown, to Pau to Bynum. If there is someone I respect when it comes to criticism, it's him. He calls it how he see's it.

MackSnackWrap
09-25-2012, 11:46 PM
Ill bet the lakers will not beat the heat in the finals if they meet up...Ill bet my account. The mods can permanently ban me. That's how confident i am.

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-25-2012, 11:50 PM
Ill bet the lakers will not beat the heat in the finals if they meet up...Ill bet my account. The mods can permanently ban me. That's how confident i am.

#dnewyguy-system

TheSource
09-26-2012, 12:00 AM
They're the defending champs, obviously he'll have to go with them. If you think he's in heat for saying that now, imagine how much heat he'll get for saying otherwise. (no pun intended)

MackSnackWrap
09-26-2012, 12:34 AM
#dnewyguy-system

Just have confidence in the heat... And im not a laker hater either.... Im one of the rare fans whose a fan of both kobe and lebron. The heat were Champions and and got alot better in the off season. We addressed our weakness of 3pt shooting by adding to excellent 3point shooters.... Lebron will be playing carefree basketball now that he doesnt have the pressure of his first ring.. Its scaryy. Chris Bosh will be solid as usual.. And dwayne wade spent the offseason resting his knee which was a big issue last year. All in all it makes sense for the heat to win over the lakers.

carnage101
09-26-2012, 02:37 AM
Just have confidence in the heat... And im not a laker hater either.... Im one of the rare fans whose a fan of both kobe and lebron. The heat were Champions and and got alot better in the off season. We addressed our weakness of 3pt shooting by adding to excellent 3point shooters.... Lebron will be playing carefree basketball now that he doesnt have the pressure of his first ring.. Its scaryy. Chris Bosh will be solid as usual.. And dwayne wade spent the offseason resting his knee which was a big issue last year. All in all it makes sense for the heat to win over the lakers.

lol somones got blinders on

Hawkeye15
09-26-2012, 02:51 AM
I mean, on paper the Lakers roster is stacked with the top 4 guys. I don't like Artest or their depth at all, and I think Mike Brown is an idiot, but there is no reason outside injuries killing them they aren't going to be one of the top 3 teams in the league. That being said, the Heat didn't have an aging team that shelled their roster off after their championship, so the road to the championship will go through Miami and the greatest player in the world, LeBron James, until proven otherwise. He got another toy for his kickouts, and Wade should be Wade, Bosh has grown into his role as a 3rd option and versatile defender, Chalmers seems to be growing into a somewhat acceptable playoff PG, and they still have veteran defenders. They just look like the best team on paper, because of Bron and where he is at, as long as his help now.

Hawkeye15
09-26-2012, 02:54 AM
LeBron/Wade/Allen/Bosh

Nash/Kobe/Gasol/Dwight

Honestly, I think the Heat's big 4 match up just fine.

LeBron>Dwight
Wade>Kobe
Bosh=Nash
Gasol>Allen (pretty sweet margin here haha)

I mean, its not as easy as just doing a +/- thing, but that is true

basketfan4life
09-26-2012, 02:56 AM
Lakers won't come out of the west.

you wish right:)

Hawkeye15
09-26-2012, 03:01 AM
James Worthy ripped the Lakers a new one all last season from Kobe to Mike Brown, to Pau to Bynum. If there is someone I respect when it comes to criticism, it's him. He calls it how he see's it.

man, I was just watching NBA80's on NBA tv, and they had a little blurb on Big Game James. You know, at one point, I liked the Lakers. Read my sig haha. I miss those days, watching Worthy and McHale fight it out.

amos1er
09-26-2012, 05:30 AM
man, I was just watching NBA80's on NBA tv, and they had a little blurb on Big Game James. You know, at one point, I liked the Lakers. Read my sig haha. I miss those days, watching Worthy and McHale fight it out.

Worthy might make for a better coach than Mike Brown.

amos1er
09-26-2012, 05:43 AM
LeBron/Wade/Allen/Bosh

Nash/Kobe/Gasol/Dwight

Honestly, I think the Heat's big 4 match up just fine.

LeBron>Dwight
Wade>Kobe
Bosh=Nash
Gasol>Allen (pretty sweet margin here haha)

I mean, its not as easy as just doing a +/- thing, but that is true

Wade wasn't better than Kobe last season, what makes you think he will be better this season?

Maybe we should match up more by position:

Nash > Chalmers or Allen
Kobe > Wade
Lebron > Artest
Pau > Bosh
Dwight > Bosh
Artest = Battier

Who on the Heat can actually guard Nash? Nash will have his way with Chalmers and won't have to try hard on defense to guard him or Allen.

Kobe is a better defender than Wade and is better at creating his shot. Wade may be better at going to the hole than Kobe and may lose him a few times on some drives to the basket, but Dwight will be there to clean up that mess.

No one in the league can really guard Lebron, but Artest is one of the best who can hope to have a chance. Lebron won't really have to play much defense on Artest so he will have more energy offensively. This truly is the Heats biggest advantage. But going to the hole he will have Dwight to contend with too. If he tries to post up again, he will have either Pau and Dwight to contend with in the middle.

Bosh will have his hands full with the new and improved Twin Towers. This match up clearly goes to the Lakers unless they try to run Lebron as PF and Bosh at center to make room for Battier in the starting line up. They will have an advantage in that Battier can now guard Kobe and Wade can not waste energy on defense. But in this scenario, Lebron will have to guard Pau and that could prove quite difficult.

Either way, it will be one of the best finals in a long time if they both make it there.

amos1er
09-26-2012, 05:45 AM
Just have confidence in the heat... And im not a laker hater either.... Im one of the rare fans whose a fan of both kobe and lebron. The heat were Champions and and got alot better in the off season. We addressed our weakness of 3pt shooting by adding to excellent 3point shooters.... Lebron will be playing carefree basketball now that he doesnt have the pressure of his first ring.. Its scaryy. Chris Bosh will be solid as usual.. And dwayne wade spent the offseason resting his knee which was a big issue last year. All in all it makes sense for the heat to win over the lakers.

So you hope, but HCA will come into play heavily IMO. The only advantage the Heat have is that they will have the luxury of a cake schedule in the east while the Lakers have more competition out west.

Andrew32
09-26-2012, 06:08 AM
Wade wasn't better than Kobe last season, what makes you think he will be better this season?

Yes he was.
Wade destroyed Kobe in offensive efficiency, consistency and ORTG all while using a significantly smaller % of his teams possessions.

Kobe had the edge in volume scoring but that was mostly due to him playing more mpg.

Wade was #3 in PER... Kobe wasn't Top #10 and behind Bynum.

The biggest difference between them was their defense though.

Wade was one of the best defenders in the league at his position.
Kobe was frequently a liability on defense.

Defensively.
Wade >>>>>> Kobe

Overall it wasn't close.
Wade was clearly better then Kobe last year.

Kobe will be another year older... Wade will obviously be better after recovering from a serious injury.
It wont be close.

ewmania
09-26-2012, 06:30 AM
its funny people were calling HEAT the championships before 2012

but they doubt a team like LAL who has a "old" PG who still was assist leader with guys like jared dudley and gortat on his team

lol cant be serious

CarrShooter
09-26-2012, 07:07 AM
This Lakers team havent played a game together, so im going to withold judgement on them until i see what theyre like on the court.

thenaj17
09-26-2012, 08:11 AM
on paper:

rio<nash
kobe(as of now) = wade
lebron > MWP
bosh > gasol(age)
whoever the C is < howard

BUT the whole laker bench are scrubs, not to mention allen > jamison

heat seems the winner on paper....

It's really not that simple...

Howard>>>>opposing centre
Nash>>>>Chalmers

Plus Gasol is easily as good as Bosh all round. Bosh is a better shooter though.

Ray Allen may be better than Jamison but how many minutes will he get with Wade, LeBron taking huge minutes and Battier and Miller taking minutes aswell

charlies_angels
09-26-2012, 09:10 AM
Nice thread here, have different points of view, but I clearly see that miami is really better than L.A. you can easily see that from the bench players.

TheLegend
09-26-2012, 11:58 AM
Agreed. The Heat's core are younger than the Laker's core. Still think this will be an epic finals match if these clubs should meet.

The Los Angeles Lakers will defeat the Miami Heat. The Laker have only one match-up edge and that's SF. The Lakers can defend on the perimeter and in the paint at a very high level. The Lakers also have a lot of fire power on both ends. Kobe, Metta, and d12 play lockdown defense. I'm not saying they all are lockdown defenders, but they all have that lockdown mentality.

People with short memories tend to forget Miami is small upfront and doesn't have a real center. Miami won because Lebron was legendary last year in the playoffs, him alone covered up a lot of Miami's issue. Bosh was hurt and Wade played bad a lot during the playoffs. Shane Battier at PF is not working against the Lakers. Everyone expect Ron is going to cover Lebron. Wrong! Metta is takin Wade. Kobe is going to take up the challenge of covering Lebron. Kobe wants that!! if u ever watched any Heat/lakers or cavs/lakers then u will know what I'm talking about here. And yes, Lebron is the best In the World. But do u see him destroying Kobe on a finals stage? Kobe has that MJ mentality. Please believe me when I say this: Kobe will go for Lebrons throat. It won't be like that Durant matchup. Kobe is going to go at Lebron ever chance he gets at both ends of the court. And when u throw in D-12 locking down the paint, I'm picking the Lakers all day.

mjm07
09-26-2012, 12:13 PM
The Los Angeles Lakers will defeat the Miami Heat. The Laker have only one match-up edge and that's SF. The Lakers can defend on the perimeter and in the paint at a very high level. The Lakers also have a lot of fire power on both ends. Kobe, Metta, and d12 play lockdown defense. I'm not saying they all are lockdown defenders, but they all have that lockdown mentality.

People with short memories tend to forget Miami is small upfront and doesn't have a real center. Miami won because Lebron was legendary last year in the playoffs, him alone covered up a lot of Miami's issue. Bosh was hurt and Wade played bad a lot during the playoffs. Shane Battier at PF is not working against the Lakers. Everyone expect Ron is going to cover Lebron. Wrong! Metta is takin Wade. Kobe is going to take up the challenge of covering Lebron. Kobe wants that!! if u ever watched any Heat/lakers or cavs/lakers then u will know what I'm talking about here. And yes, Lebron is the best In the World. But do u see him destroying Kobe on a finals stage? Kobe has that MJ mentality. Please believe me when I say this: Kobe will go for Lebrons throat. It won't be like that Durant matchup. Kobe is going to go at Lebron ever chance he gets at both ends of the court. And when u throw in D-12 locking down the paint, I'm picking the Lakers all day.


The bold statement made no sense, whatsoever.

Nobody has short memory on the lack of height on the Heat's frontcourt. Albeit a concern, the Heat make up for it with elite perimeter/team defense.

Please believe me when I say this, kobe will no way in hell contain/shutdown LBJ.

I'm picking OKC all day against the Lakers. ;)

fresh prince
09-26-2012, 01:15 PM
on paper:

rio<nash
kobe(as of now) = wade
lebron > MWP
bosh > gasol(age)
whoever the C is < howard

BUT the whole laker bench are scrubs, not to mention allen > jamison

heat seems the winner on paper....

I think people should get banned for using the > < to break down match-ups from here on out.

fresh prince
09-26-2012, 01:18 PM
The bold statement made no sense, whatsoever.

Nobody has short memory on the lack of height on the Heat's frontcourt. Albeit a concern, the Heat make up for it with elite perimeter/team defense.

Please believe me when I say this, kobe will no way in hell contain/shutdown LBJ.

I'm picking OKC all day against the Lakers. ;)

:confused: I don't think Kobe will spend any time guarding LBJ. Ron Ron / Metta , Ebanks and Clark (if he sticks) would be the dudes guarding Bron

Hawkeye15
09-26-2012, 01:37 PM
Wade wasn't better than Kobe last season, what makes you think he will be better this season?

Maybe we should match up more by position:

Nash > Chalmers or Allen
Kobe > Wade
Lebron > Artest
Pau > Bosh
Dwight > Bosh
Artest = Battier

Who on the Heat can actually guard Nash? Nash will have his way with Chalmers and won't have to try hard on defense to guard him or Allen.

Kobe is a better defender than Wade and is better at creating his shot. Wade may be better at going to the hole than Kobe and may lose him a few times on some drives to the basket, but Dwight will be there to clean up that mess.

No one in the league can really guard Lebron, but Artest is one of the best who can hope to have a chance. Lebron won't really have to play much defense on Artest so he will have more energy offensively. This truly is the Heats biggest advantage. But going to the hole he will have Dwight to contend with too. If he tries to post up again, he will have either Pau and Dwight to contend with in the middle.

Bosh will have his hands full with the new and improved Twin Towers. This match up clearly goes to the Lakers unless they try to run Lebron as PF and Bosh at center to make room for Battier in the starting line up. They will have an advantage in that Battier can now guard Kobe and Wade can not waste energy on defense. But in this scenario, Lebron will have to guard Pau and that could prove quite difficult.

Either way, it will be one of the best finals in a long time if they both make it there.

Seeing as I completely disagree with your first sentence, I feel it would be a waste of time to reply to all of it.

And if we want to lay out the whole roster, Miami has better depth regardless.

beasted86
09-26-2012, 01:39 PM
All I know is that when Miami plays LA, get ready to see us kick it up a whole 'nother level.

I remember last year after the HEAT ended Linsanity, Mike D'Antoni was talking about how "geeked up" Miami's defense and overall play seemed, and that we are basically unstoppable when we play like that. People doing all this "<" ">" nonsense shouldn't be surprised if Chalmers and Cole come out and lock down Nash making him look just like Jeremy Lin, Howard gets in quick foul trouble and is given fits by Bosh, and Wade and LeBron go H.A.M. on LA's perimeter defense.

beasted86
09-26-2012, 01:47 PM
I also want to add one more thing... Remember you heard it from me first...

Don't be surprised if the Lakers scrap the thought of Artest starting early in the season and play with more Kobe at the three and Meeks at the 2 so they can get better floor spacing. Artest is utterly useless as a spot up shooter.

smith&wesson
09-26-2012, 01:49 PM
If howards healthy its going to be hard to stop LA. miami doesnt have any one to gaurd him. okc would have a better chance with perkins & ibaka imo.

lakerskbp24
09-26-2012, 01:57 PM
The Heat are still the favorites. The Lakers have yet to even play a game...

smith&wesson
09-26-2012, 01:58 PM
All I know is that when Miami plays LA, get ready to see us kick it up a whole 'nother level.

I remember last year after the HEAT ended Linsanity, Mike D'Antoni was talking about how "geeked up" Miami's defense and overall play seemed, and that we are basically unstoppable when we play like that. People doing all this "<" ">" nonsense shouldn't be surprised if Chalmers and Cole come out and lock down Nash making him look just like Jeremy Lin, Howard gets in quick foul trouble and is given fits by Bosh, and Wade and LeBron go H.A.M. on LA's perimeter defense.

:laugh:

SteBO
09-26-2012, 02:05 PM
:laugh:
Not seeing how the bolded is entirely laughable. Comparing what happened to Jeremy Lin to what might happen with Nash is bit much, but if you think that Dwight can't get in foul trouble against the constantly slashing LeBron and Wade, and that he can't get uncomfortable having to defend Bosh the perimeter, then you're deluding yourself.

mekedubs
09-26-2012, 02:27 PM
Everytime I read one of these posts "I" cringe.
Gasol has never been soft.

Did you forget 2009-2010 when Gasol was one of the best players in the entire league and banging in the paint and scoring at will VS everybody?
Did you forget him grabbing offensive rebounds at will over the likes of KG and Duncan?

Gasol is not soft... he has been forced onto the perimeter the last two years by the dumb*** that is Mike Brown and that is why his production dropped along with his consistency.

Love it or hate it but Gasol belongs in the paint and he is not afraid of contact... my god.

Gasol didn't get the nickname "Gasoft" for nothing... He's not afriad of contact because the NBA is watered down now but once he receives contact he folds, plain and simple. 2009-2010? we're talking about 2012-2013 season and if you want to go back and talk about past accomplishments, in 2011 Gasol got outplayed by Carl Landry in the 1st round of the playoffs (who's 6'5 by the way) only to go on and get destroyed by Dirk Nowitzki.... Then this year Gasol got outplayed by a 6'7 rookie, with no offensive game named Kenneth Faried in the 1st round once again only to go on and get man-handled by the Thunder in the conference semi finals.... And if you watched any of the games from the 2010 Finals and took notes, you would notice that Phil Jackson called a timeout to take Gasol off of Garnett and put Bynum on him because he was getting KILLED by KG, which had been the story of the entire series.. People seem to forget how important Lamar Odom was to the Lakers in taking some of that pressure off of Gasol to score...

But love it or hate it, Gasol is the best PASSING big man from the paint, but once you force him to be a consitent scorer, he can't do it... my god.

smith&wesson
09-26-2012, 02:59 PM
Not seeing how the bolded is entirely laughable. Comparing what happened to Jeremy Lin to what might happen with Nash is bit much, but if you think that Dwight can't get in foul trouble against the constantly slashing LeBron and Wade, and that he can't get uncomfortable having to defend Bosh the perimeter, then you're deluding yourself.

your statement i can agree with because it makes sence. theres reason, logic etc. but that wasnt his statement. the way he worded it is laughable. this was his exact statement

"Chalmers and Cole come out and lock down Nash making him look just like Jeremy Lin, Howard gets in quick foul trouble and is given fits by Bosh"

howard gets in quick foul trouble and is given fits by bosh ?

chalmers and cole lock down nash making him look just like lin ?

if anything bosh would get in early foul trouble trying to gaurd howard. nash is a facilitator to the definition and has one of the highest basketball iq's in the league. ya lets just put a bold statement out saying norris cole can lock him down like he did j lin.

stebo your right bro, its not laughable its hysterical

now if he said wade and lebron constantly slashing could get the help defender in foul trouble (howard) then i would agree. but thats not what he said. his post to me was straight homerism.. and made no sence at all.

WAYNEBO
09-26-2012, 03:06 PM
Lakers will destroy Miami in a 7-game series. 2nd unit is strong with Meeks and Jamison.

TheLegend
09-26-2012, 03:13 PM
The bold statement made no sense, whatsoever.

Nobody has short memory on the lack of height on the Heat's frontcourt. Albeit a concern, the Heat make up for it with elite perimeter/team defense.

Please believe me when I say this, kobe will no way in hell contain/shutdown LBJ.

I'm picking OKC all day against the Lakers. ;)

I can't call Run Artest or Kobe Bryant a shut down defender anymore due to their age and how long they have been in the league. But they are still very good perimeter defenders that can get it done on any given night. D-12 is currently a lock down defender. When you have solid or very good wing defenders, and paint defenders, that is a problem. Because when you beat your man, now you have to deal with the anchor in the paint, and in this case D12 is the best paint defender.

Now comprehend this, No one is going to shutdown Lebron right now. But Kobe is going to go at him looking to prove a point. While we all say Lebron is the best player in the world, Kobe is the one player that will go at Lebron and truly believe he's still the best player on this planet. Kobe still believes that and that is crucial. Meaning he's not going to care about fouling Lebron hard and giving a ***** about friendship, unlike say KD who may have that second thought.

You pick OKC against the Lakers? Hey, that's your perspective. Some people will pick the only thing they know until it plays out in front of them. Meaning, you only picking OKC because they won last year. It's the easy choice. But I can tell you now, the Lakers will be different. You probably can't see that far because you have to wait until it's played out in front of your eyes.

mjm07
09-26-2012, 03:25 PM
I can't call Run Artest or Kobe Bryant a shut down defender anymore due to their age and how long they have been in the league. But they are still very good perimeter defenders that can get it done on any given night. D-12 is currently a lock down defender. When you have solid or very good wing defenders, and paint defenders, that is a problem. Because when you beat your man, now you have to deal with the anchor in the paint, and in this case D12 is the best paint defender.

Thank you Capt. Obvious

Now comprehend this, No one is going to shutdown Lebron right now. But Kobe is going to go at him looking to prove a point. While we all say Lebron is the best player in the world, Kobe is the one player that will go at Lebron and truly believe he's still the best player on this planet. Kobe still believes that and that is crucial. Meaning he's not going to care about fouling Lebron hard and giving a ***** about friendship, unlike say KD who may have that second thought.

You pick OKC against the Lakers? Hey, that's your perspective. Some people will pick the only thing they know until it plays out in front of them. Meaning, you only picking OKC because they won last year. It's the easy choice. But I can tell you now, the Lakers will be different. You probably can't see that far because you have to wait until it's played out in front of your eyes.

Well since you can, can you also please provide me with the winning numbers to the Florida Powerball for tonight?

You're making the most obvious points, dude. D-12 is the best Big in the NBA. No one is disputing that. Kobe is still a great player. No one is disputing that. And of course he's going to make a point to do whatever it takes to win b/c thats who Kobe has shown to be. Regardless if he's facing LBJ or not.

I'm picking OKC because they've proven[B] to me and to everyone that they can win. Let alone, make it to the finals again. That isn't anything outlandish, Chief.

Lakers were a good, sleeper contendar, without D-12. Now they're a legitimate one and could definitely be one of the elites. But let the games play first. You're no psychic, homeslice.

Lastly, Just like the the Heat have to deal with D-12, Kobe and Gasol, your Lakers have to deal with The Big 3. It isnt going to be a cake walk for either team [B]if they face off in the finals.

TheLegend
09-26-2012, 03:26 PM
:confused: I don't think Kobe will spend any time guarding LBJ. Ron Ron / Metta , Ebanks and Clark (if he sticks) would be the dudes guarding Bron

You obviously never watched any Lakers/Cavs or Lakers/Heat games. And you obviously don't understand the mentality that Kobe has. There have been numerous games on several occasions where I've seen Kobe personally switched over to cover Lebron as if he took it personal or something. There was a game on Christmas a few years ago with the Lakers/Cavs on NBC. The Cavs was winning and getting the best of the Lakers and Kobe automatically switched over to cover Lebron on his own and without Phil Jackson's say or approval. Lebron hit a shot, and Kobe looked over at whomever was guarding him and pointed to Lebron as to say 'I got him from here out'. That's the kind of player kobe is.

No offense, but you're probably just a typical fan that never pay attention the the small details of the game.

Captain Moroni
09-26-2012, 03:28 PM
Just readong the OP makes me shake my head. Lets start the season already...these Opinion posts on who is better, who ranks higher are meaningless.

TheLegend
09-26-2012, 03:39 PM
Well since you can, can you also please provide me with the winning numbers to the Florida Powerball for tonight?

You're making the most obvious points, dude. D-12 is the best Big in the NBA. No one is disputing that. Kobe is still a great player. No one is disputing that. And of course he's going to make a point to do whatever it takes to win b/c thats who Kobe has shown to be. Regardless if he's facing LBJ or not.

I'm picking OKC because they've proven[B] to me and to everyone that they can win. Let alone, make it to the finals again. That isn't anything outlandish, Chief.

Lakers were a good, sleeper contendar, without D-12. Now they're a legitimate one and could definitely be one of the elites. But let the games play first. You're no psychic, homeslice.

Lastly, Just like the the Heat have to deal with D-12, Kobe and Gasol, your Lakers have to deal with The Big 3. It isnt going to be a cake walk for either team [B]if they face off in the finals.


It's not about being psychic. But having the ability to see how certain things may play-out based on knowledge and experience and understanding the match-up game, versus someone else who lacks that experience and have to wait until a series is over to understand which team was better.

To me, the Lakers are better. The Lakers are now a legitimate problem at both ends of the court. They have a lot of things you need to not just win, but dominate. They have a guy in Nash that can run an offense and get players involved. Nash is going to utilize D-12 and get him going offensively, as well as Gasol. Kobe is going to get his, u know that. And Nash will have games where he have 5 points and 15 ast. And on defense, they have some studs. D-12, Kobe, Metta, u know the deal 'homeslice'. The have perimeter guys and guys in the paint that can get physical. OKC, is great, but they lack a post game. That hurt them later in the playoffs. You can't just sit around and go one-on-one and shoot jumpers all game. When the J is not falling, they become stagnant. Durant needs to develop that post game. MJ had it, Kobe has it, and now Lebron has it. KD needs to get there.

SteBO
09-26-2012, 03:48 PM
What's funny about all of this is that it isn't just OKC and Miami that can without question knock off LA in a series. Boston and San Antonio have s pretty good shot as well in my eyes. OKC, MIA, SAS, and BOS all have a chance at the title this year and here are my reasons......

1. OKC (Lakers' perimeter D' is overrated and cannot contain the likes of Westbrook, Harden, and Durant. Enough with the MWP and Kobe talk. They are not what they were in the past defensively. OKC has enough bodies to sick on Dwight to play one on one, therefore no double-teaming isn't really necessary. Lakers' perimeter shooting is another concern, because when the Thunder get rolling, they keep going and going and going. LA will not win a jump shooting contest with the Thunder.)

2. Miami (Similar reasons as stated above, and with the floor spacing Miami has, the Lakers will have issues adjusting to Miami's small ball lineups. Will Miami have issues with LA's frontcourt? Yes. But Pau and Bosh are easily a wash, and at the end of games, will Dwight be an offensive liability with his FT shooting? It's been a recurring theme for years, no reason to think that won't continue until proven otherwise. Oh yeah, and Miami's bench is vastly superior too. Not even close really.)

3. Boston [Have some productive size to throw out there, the PG play to exploit Nash's piss poor defense, KG can handle Pau at this stage, and they now have the firepower off the bench that the Lakers to this day still lack (Jamison will not be enough scoring wise, and he's a turnstyle on defense). Like Miami, Boston can also go small to give LA fits though I think another 4 would be helpful if they plan on keeping KG at center for longer stretches].

4. San Antonio (Same reasons as Boston, though I think they too could use another big)

The Lakers' chances of winning the West/the whole thing are pretty good if not great, but let's not dismiss the other teams that have an equal shot. People here act like the difference between Bynum and Howard is this huge gulf. It's silly. Bynum is every bit as good if not better than Howard offensively, and he was definitely coming into his own on the defensive end last year once he got healthy. Howard is still better on that end though. Also, as someone mentioned it earlier, I believe that Mike Brown is a dolt.

Howard is really the only guy LA has that nobody can stop, and with the game on the line he can be an offensive liability directly because of his inability to consistently hit free throws, "consistently" being a very generous term for his ineptitude at the line.

mjm07
09-26-2012, 04:06 PM
^^ how dare you speak logically/objectively!

smith&wesson
09-26-2012, 05:24 PM
What's funny about all of this is that it isn't just OKC and Miami that can without question knock off LA in a series. Boston and San Antonio have s pretty good shot as well in my eyes. OKC, MIA, SAS, and BOS all have a chance at the title this year and here are my reasons......

1. OKC (Lakers' perimeter D' is overrated and cannot contain the likes of Westbrook, Harden, and Durant. Enough with the MWP and Kobe talk. They are not what they were in the past defensively. OKC has enough bodies to sick on Dwight to play one on one, therefore no double-teaming isn't really necessary. Lakers' perimeter shooting is another concern, because when the Thunder get rolling, they keep going and going and going. LA will not win a jump shooting contest with the Thunder.)

2. Miami (Similar reasons as stated above, and with the floor spacing Miami has, the Lakers will have issues adjusting to Miami's small ball lineups. Will Miami have issues with LA's frontcourt? Yes. But Pau and Bosh are easily a wash, and at the end of games, will Dwight be an offensive liability with his FT shooting? It's been a recurring theme for years, no reason to think that won't continue until proven otherwise. Oh yeah, and Miami's bench is vastly superior too. Not even close really.)

3. Boston [Have some productive size to throw out there, the PG play to exploit Nash's piss poor defense, KG can handle Pau at this stage, and they now have the firepower off the bench that the Lakers to this day still lack (Jamison will not be enough scoring wise, and he's a turnstyle on defense). Like Miami, Boston can also go small to give LA fits though I think another 4 would be helpful if they plan on keeping KG at center for longer stretches].

4. San Antonio (Same reasons as Boston, though I think they too could use another big)

The Lakers' chances of winning the West/the whole thing are pretty good if not great, but let's not dismiss the other teams that have an equal shot. People here act like the difference between Bynum and Howard is this huge gulf. It's silly. Bynum is every bit as good if not better than Howard offensively, and he was definitely coming into his own on the defensive end last year once he got healthy. Howard is still better on that end though. Also, as someone mentioned it earlier, I believe that Mike Brown is a dolt.

Howard is really the only guy LA has that nobody can stop, and with the game on the line he can be an offensive liability directly because of his inability to consistently hit free throws, "consistently" being a very generous term for his ineptitude at the line.

how can you say the lakers perimiter D is over rated when you have 2 above average defenders on the wings backed up by the best help defender in the league. you havent even seen this roster play together yet.

you say the lakers perimiter shooting is a concern, but they did add nash and jamison so that makes them alot better then last year already. last season the pretty much just had kobe.

how will the lakers have issues adjusting to small ball line ups ? you cant see gasol and jamison playing the 4&5 together if need be ?

you keep referring back to howard being a liability with his free throw shooting. to a point i agree with you. but kobe will have the ball late in games along with nash,gasol, or even jamison. Howard is the defensive anchor on that team. he isnt the go to player on offense like shaq was. "hack a howard" isnt going to be a stradegy that works on this laker team as they have soo many other offensive weapons.

miami's bench consists of cole, haslem, allen, lewis, lakers bench consits of sessions, hill, jamison, blake.. honeslty the depth is not standing out to me as an x factor here.

you say boston has some productive size.. does that = to the best C in the league?? i dont think so. simply saying the celtics and spurs need another big doesnt justify the fact that they have no answer for a gasol and howard front court. kg or duncan are still pretty good but they need another dominant big along side them to match up too the lakers front court.

nash's piss poor defense will have the best help defender in the league behind him. also lets not bring up rondo's struggles on offense? i actually agree with some of your points but then some of the other ones are soo one sided its not even funny. .

you also said howard is the only guy that cant be stopped.... kobe was runner up for scoring title last season. yes he is not as efficient as before but dont get it twist kobe can still score from any where on the floor. nash can still shoot the lights out, jamison can still put up mad buckets, gasol will streacth the floor for howard...

I dont doubt that the teams you listed could beat LA. i dont doubt that LA could beat the teams you listed. but your statements are completly one sided and your failing to see the other side of the debate. .

i think all teams mentioned have put them selves in a decent position to match up vs just about anyone. at this point its about watching the games and seeing how it unfolds.

TheLegend
09-26-2012, 05:49 PM
Teams usually play small ball when they are tying to get back into the game to change the tempo and create an uptempo pace. Usually teams resort to this when they are already down in the game. Small ball generally doesn't work in the playoffs.

smith&wesson
09-26-2012, 06:40 PM
Well since you can, can you also please provide me with the winning numbers to the Florida Powerball for tonight?

You're making the most obvious points, dude. D-12 is the best Big in the NBA. No one is disputing that. Kobe is still a great player. No one is disputing that. And of course he's going to make a point to do whatever it takes to win b/c thats who Kobe has shown to be. Regardless if he's facing LBJ or not.

I'm picking OKC because they've proven to me and to everyone that they can win. Let alone, make it to the finals again. That isn't anything outlandish, [B]Chief.

Lakers were a good, sleeper contendar, without D-12. Now they're a legitimate one and could definitely be one of the elites. But let the games play first. You're no psychic, homeslice.

Lastly, Just like the the Heat have to deal with D-12, Kobe and Gasol, your Lakers have to deal with The Big 3. It isnt going to be a cake walk for either team [B]if they face off in the finals.

he makes valid points though no matter how obvious some poster seem oblivious to those points. bolded comments seem extra.

Completly agree on the last statement. I say the heat, thunder, lakers all have a case as to who can be the best... but we need to see them play.

Evolution23
09-26-2012, 07:00 PM
uh oh...of course the heat are the main favourites to win it all but cant deny the fact that the Lakers are their toughest competitors

lol toughest? Yeah OKC is reigning Western champs so they might have something to say. LOL Laker fans.

amos1er
09-26-2012, 07:11 PM
Yes he was.
Wade destroyed Kobe in offensive efficiency, consistency and ORTG all while using a significantly smaller % of his teams possessions.

Kobe had the edge in volume scoring but that was mostly due to him playing more mpg.

Wade was #3 in PER... Kobe wasn't Top #10 and behind Bynum.

The biggest difference between them was their defense though.

Wade was one of the best defenders in the league at his position.
Kobe was frequently a liability on defense.

Defensively.
Wade >>>>>> Kobe

Overall it wasn't close.
Wade was clearly better then Kobe last year.

Kobe will be another year older... Wade will obviously be better after recovering from a serious injury.
It wont be close.

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

You must be living in a dream world...

Again, you leave out any crucial data that could be damaging to your outlandish claim. You conveniently don't mention their playoff numbers, when on other arguments you mention only playoff numbers and leave out regular season stats. Guess it all depends on what bs you are trying to sling at the moment. Even PSD voted Kobe the better, the majority opinion lies with me on this one once again.

Last season Kobe was second in the league in scoring (could have been first but he conceded it to Durant) and Wade was not even in the top ten. Kobe was 4th in MVP voting and Wade was 11th. Kobe was a first team all nba member and wade was 3rd team. Kobe played in 58 games and Wade only played in 49.

As for your ridiculous claim that Wade was the better defender than Kobe, it seems that Kobe was an all nba second team member and Wade didn't even make a defensive team. The experts seem to think that Kobe is the better defender. Guess the burden of proof is on you then.

Lets break down the numbers now shall we.

Kobe Regular Season: 27.9 ppg, 4.6 apg, 5.4 rpg on a ts% of 52.7. All NBA first team, All NBA defensive second team, 4th in MVP voting, played in 58 of 66 regular season games only missed 12% of the season.

Wade Regular Season: 22.1 ppg, 4.6 apg, 4.8 rpg on a ts% of 55.9. All NBA 3rd team, No defensive team selection, 11th in MVP voting, played in 49 of 66 regular season games and missed 26% of the season.

Looks like Kobe had the better regular season by far when you look at ALL THE NUMBERS. Truth is that Wade didn't even play enough of the regular season to be in consideration. Kobe is they better player just off that fact alone.

Now, lets take a look at those playoff stats you conveniently left out:

Kobe in the playoffs: 30.0 ppg, 4.3 apg, 4.8 rpg on a ts% of 52.5.

Wade in the playoffs: 22.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, 5.2 rpg on a ts% of 52.6.

Looks like Kobe blows Wade out of the water in the playoffs. Now I know why you didn't mention these numbers.

Anyone can clearly see that Kobe was the better player last season even at age 33 and 16 years in the league. Even PSD agrees. :D

TheLegend
09-26-2012, 09:06 PM
To say Wade is or was better than Kobe and it "wasn't close" is just silly. Kobe is clearly on the downside but Wade stunk it up pretty good against the Pacers last year in the semi eastern conference. Wade also struggled against Boston in the ECF and if Lebron isn't stellar in Game 6 the Celts probably win that game and take the series. And there is questions if Wade is on the downside as well. The Heat won last year because of Lebron. Get off Wade's nuts because he wasn't all that last year.

smith&wesson
09-26-2012, 09:22 PM
To say Wade is or was better than Kobe and it "wasn't close" is just silly. Kobe is clearly on the downside but Wade stunk it up pretty good against the Pacers last year in the semi eastern conference. Wade also struggled against Boston in the ECF and if Lebron isn't stellar in Game 6 the Celts probably win that game and take the series. And there is questions if Wade is on the downside as well. The Heat won last year because of Lebron. Get off Wade's nuts because he wasn't all that last year.

kobe has been one of the best players in the league for 16 seasons going in to his 17th season. wade already showing signs of regressing in year 9. how is wades numbers being compared to a player who is on the verge of retirement ? lol are wade supporters really having this debate ? :laugh2:

SteBO
09-26-2012, 09:49 PM
how can you say the lakers perimiter D is over rated when you have 2 above average defenders on the wings backed up by the best help defender in the league. you havent even seen this roster play together yet.

you say the lakers perimiter shooting is a concern, but they did add nash and jamison so that makes them alot better then last year already. last season the pretty much just had kobe.

how will the lakers have issues adjusting to small ball line ups ? you cant see gasol and jamison playing the 4&5 together if need be ?

you keep referring back to howard being a liability with his free throw shooting. to a point i agree with you. but kobe will have the ball late in games along with nash,gasol, or even jamison. Howard is the defensive anchor on that team. he isnt the go to player on offense like shaq was. "hack a howard" isnt going to be a stradegy that works on this laker team as they have soo many other offensive weapons.

miami's bench consists of cole, haslem, allen, lewis, lakers bench consits of sessions, hill, jamison, blake.. honeslty the depth is not standing out to me as an x factor here.

you say boston has some productive size.. does that = to the best C in the league?? i dont think so. simply saying the celtics and spurs need another big doesnt justify the fact that they have no answer for a gasol and howard front court. kg or duncan are still pretty good but they need another dominant big along side them to match up too the lakers front court.

nash's piss poor defense will have the best help defender in the league behind him. also lets not bring up rondo's struggles on offense? i actually agree with some of your points but then some of the other ones are soo one sided its not even funny. .

you also said howard is the only guy that cant be stopped.... kobe was runner up for scoring title last season. yes he is not as efficient as before but dont get it twist kobe can still score from any where on the floor. nash can still shoot the lights out, jamison can still put up mad buckets, gasol will streacth the floor for howard...

I dont doubt that the teams you listed could beat LA. i dont doubt that LA could beat the teams you listed. but your statements are completly one sided and your failing to see the other side of the debate. .

i think all teams mentioned have put them selves in a decent position to match up vs just about anyone. at this point its about watching the games and seeing how it unfolds.
Exactly. You're getting it. We need to watch and see how things are going to unfold. What I posted was meant to get the point across that the Lakers aren't a team that no other contender can match up with. There are ways to force a team like LA to play to their strengths. The season simply cannot come fast enough.

But I don't see how what I posted was one-sided. What do you expect me to say? I don't think I need to waste my time explaining just how lethal the Nash, Kobe, Pau, and Dwight are going to be together. Isn't that a given? I think so. I have acknowledged on more than one occasion on this subject that Jamison is the best bench piece they have, but that it isn't enough scoring wise. Plus, he's not good defensively. It's time for some of you people to hear to other side, because it's waste of time rehashing the same **** we constantly have to hear about LAL's strengths.

Andrew32
09-27-2012, 12:26 AM
kobe has been one of the best players in the league for 16 seasons going in to his 17th season.

What?
Kobe was one of the best players in the league in 01, 02, 04, 06, 07, 08, 09 and 2010.

That is 8 seasons.

(removed 03 and 05 due to injurys)

Andrew32
09-27-2012, 12:34 AM
Lets break down the numbers now shall we.

Kobe Regular Season: 27.9 ppg, 4.6 apg, 5.4 rpg on a ts% of 52.7.
Wade Regular Season: 22.1 ppg, 4.6 apg, 4.8 rpg on a ts% of 55.9.

#1. Looks like Kobe had the better regular season by far when you look at ALL THE NUMBERS.

Now, lets take a look at those playoff stats you conveniently left out:

Kobe in the playoffs: 30.0 ppg, 4.3 apg, 4.8 rpg on a ts% of 52.5.

Wade in the playoffs: 22.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, 5.2 rpg on a ts% of 52.6.

#2. Looks like Kobe blows Wade out of the water in the playoffs.


#1. How so?
Kobe has the edge in volume ppg.

Wade has a huge edge in scoring efficiency/consistency and has an enormous edge in defensive impact.
Wade also does not dominate the ball like Kobe does and plays less mpg.
Wade has the edge in all advanced stats.

__________________________________________

#2.

You are using two vastly different sample sizes.

Wade contributed much more in the playoffs over 23 games then Kobe did in 12.

Lets compare their stats through 2 playoff rounds since Kobe didn't get past the 2nd round.

Wade : 26 / 5 / 4apg on 51%FG / 55%TS / 111ortg / 96drtg

Compared to...

Kobe : 30 / 5 / 4apg on 44%FG / 52%TS / 109ortg / 112drtg

Wade consistently dominated down the stretch of games and played unselfishly and did whatever it took to help his team win.
He also played ultra elite defense.

Kobe consistently played poorly down the stretch of games and frequently hogged the ball and didn't do what was best for his team.
His defense was atrocious in the playoffs.

Wade definitely had a better playoffs and a far better regular season.
Offensively they may not be that far apart at times but defensively Wade is miles ahead.

You can bring up All-Team's all you want.
They are just the opinions of a few random people.
We don't know who they are or how much effort they actually dedicate to voting for these "awards", how knowledgeable they are or what there actual understanding of the game is.

There have been so many bone headed mistakes in handing out these awards in the past that they really don't mean anything at this point.

Kobe was a terrible defender this past season.
This was supported by all regular and advanced statistics and by actually watching him play (eye test).
He just doesn't have the footspeed to cover anyone with quickness anymore and he gambles far too much still despite that.
They usually put him on the opposing teams worst offensive wing/guard to cover up for him and they started doing that back in 2010.

The fact that he made an All-Defensive team just shows how flawed the system/voters actually are and how using those awards as "evidence" or proof behind any opinion is pretty weak.

Anyone with any sort of significant knowledge and understanding of the game knows that Kobe did not deserve to be on any sort of All-Defensive teams since 2010 and especially last year.

Most Kobe fans I know admit this also.

C-Style
09-27-2012, 12:35 AM
What?
Kobe was one of the best players in the league in 01, 02, 04, 06, 07, 08, 09 and 2010.

That is 8 seasons.

(removed 03 and 05 due to injurys)



Kobe is not one of the best NBA players currently? Theres about 360 to 450 players in the NBA, where does he fall according to you? one of the good players?

If you're top 10, you are still one of the best.

Andrew32
09-27-2012, 12:42 AM
Kobe is not one of the best NBA players currently? Theres about 360 to 450 players in the NBA, where does he fall according to you? one of the good players?

If you're top 10, you are still one of the best.
Judging by actual impact I am not sure he was Top 10 last year and its impossible to say how he'll play this year.

On actual ability he was probably Top 10 last year but he hurt his impact by doing more then he was capable of.

He would have had much greater impact if he scored 20-25ppg on good efficiency/consistency and put more effort into playing defense.

IndyRealist
09-27-2012, 12:43 AM
Thanks to the thread on defending Lebron, I know that in two games last year the Lakers did a pretty good job defending Lebron compared to the rest of the league. Except for Orlando. The Magic owned Lebron last year. So the Lakers went out and got Orlando's best defensive player.

C-Style
09-27-2012, 12:48 AM
Judging by actual impact I am not sure he was Top 10 last year and its impossible to say how he'll play this year.

On actual ability he was probably Top 10 last year but he hurt his impact by doing more then he was capable of.

He would have had much greater impact if he scored 20-25ppg on good efficiency/consistency and put more effort into playing defense.

id like to hear what players you ranked ahead of him?

Dwight
Durant
Lebron
Paul

Wade? Not sure... Who are the rest?

Andrew32
09-27-2012, 12:55 AM
id like to hear what players you ranked ahead of him?

Dwight
Durant
Lebron
Paul

Wade? Not sure... Who are the rest?

Never thought about it.

Probably's
Durant
Lebron
Dwight
Wade
CP3
Love
Parker
Rose
Bynum

Maybe's
WBrick
Duncan
Dirk
Deron
Nash

DanG
09-27-2012, 08:42 AM
Never thought about it.

Probably's
Durant
Lebron
Dwight
Wade
CP3
Love
Parker
Rose
Bynum

Maybe's
WBrick
Duncan
Dirk
Deron
Nash

I'm not even a big Kobe fan but... wow. You say that you don't hate him but you keep jumping into every thread where Kobe is being discussed.. and you never really say good things about him.

Andrew32
09-27-2012, 09:10 AM
I'm not even a big Kobe fan but... wow. You say that you don't hate him but you keep jumping into every thread where Kobe is being discussed.. and you never really say good things about him.

He asked me a question... I answered him.
I have praised Kobe many times before and recently.

Kobe has many fans who say good things about him all the time.
Would be boring if everyone only praised him 24/7 right... wouldn't lead to much discussion.

JordansBulls
10-06-2012, 02:06 PM
Miami is still the favorite.

Jesse2272
10-06-2012, 02:39 PM
Miami is still the favorite.

No Doubt

Someone needs to knock them off the throne

JordansBulls
10-08-2012, 02:15 AM
No Doubt

Someone needs to knock them off the throne

Bulls or Knicks will do it.