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mrblisterdundee
09-24-2012, 12:41 AM
Make a top-10 list of who you think are the top 10 combo guards in the NBA as of the start or this season.
Here's mine:

1. Russell Westbrook
2. Dwyane Wade
3. James Harden
4. Derrick Rose (I'm listing him based on where I think he'll be talent-wise when returning.)
5. Tony Parker
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Kyrie Irving
8. Stephen Curry
9. Monta Ellis
10. Ty Lawson

I didn't use Kobe Bryant because I don't think he'll be taking on the role of a combo guard this season, unless Steve Nash gets injured.

AWC713
09-24-2012, 01:11 AM
really think dwade is overrated.

i know what hes done in his past, but i just dont see him at the top of his game anymore. i loved his playing style, but kind of like vince carter you can only play like that for so long. hell be 31 this year, hes still very very solid, just wouldnt put him #4

asandhu23
09-24-2012, 01:18 AM
Monta Ellis.

toovey107
09-24-2012, 01:24 AM
You really need to reevaluate your definition of a 'combo guard'

dee279
09-24-2012, 01:28 AM
I see alot of PGs so i really dont even know how to answer this. I dont consider TP a combo guard really. Manu either. Idk ill just leave this one alone.

dee279
09-24-2012, 01:28 AM
You really need to reevaluate your definition of a 'combo guard'

Exactly what i was saying.

Andrew32
09-24-2012, 01:31 AM
WBrick cannot polish Wades shoes.
Wade >>> Westbrook

Even an injured Wade was a better player then WBrick last season imo.

Healthy Wade will be the best guard in the league with only Paul bothering him.

dee279
09-24-2012, 01:33 AM
To me, a combo guard is an undersized 2 guard who either plays PG or SG depending on the teams preference and need but usually is a shoot first player with limited playmaking ability alla Monta Ellis, J. Bayless, Nate Robinson. I think Tyreke is the only tall combo guard i can think of but i think Sacremento plays him at SF so hes just a combo player.

dee279
09-24-2012, 01:34 AM
WBrick cannot polish Wades shoes.
Wade >>> Westbrook

Even an injured Wade was a better player then WBrick last season imo.

Healthy Wade will be the best guard in the league with only Paul bothering him.

I enjoyed reading that post. Heres a man i can agree with.

Stunner
09-24-2012, 02:07 AM
Where is Ellis and why are Parker and Irving on this list? Plus Harden and Wade I would consider strictly SG's.

Stunner
09-24-2012, 02:08 AM
This list is just awful lol

jerellh528
09-24-2012, 03:02 AM
WBrick cannot polish Wades shoes.
Wade >>> Westbrook

Even an injured Wade was a better player then WBrick last season imo.

Healthy Wade will be the best guard in the league with only Paul bothering him.

lol, wade now is probably 3rd or 4th best guard in the nba

Bulls_fan90
09-24-2012, 03:25 AM
Harden far too high. Also you've listed players that aren't combo Guards.

Baller1
09-24-2012, 03:42 AM
Solid list.

seikou8
09-24-2012, 03:59 AM
lol, wade now is probably 3rd or 4th best guard in the nba

:facepalm: he is 2nd to cp3

koreancabbage
09-24-2012, 08:55 AM
really think dwade is overrated.

i know what hes done in his past, but i just dont see him at the top of his game anymore. i loved his playing style, but kind of like vince carter you can only play like that for so long. hell be 31 this year, hes still very very solid, just wouldnt put him #4

you only think he's overrated cuz he's playing with LeBron. Wade is still the same player but he has many more weapons around him. Yea you don't see him dunking on people much or taking a lot of shots- but the guy still shoots around 50% every year as a shooting guard.

22 5 5 on 50% shooting with 2 steals and 1.3 blocks is OVERRATED??!?!?!?!? overrated compared to Westbrook?

this is just a pure ignorance.

Vince Carter wishes he could put up stats like Wade at 31. HAHAHA

Swashcuff
09-24-2012, 09:00 AM
You really need to reevaluate your definition of a 'combo guard'

Indeed

b@llhog24
09-24-2012, 09:18 AM
Where's Rubio? Nash?

jericho
09-24-2012, 10:47 AM
Harden far too high. Also you've listed players that aren't combo Guards.

idk why i find myself laghing at your sig lol

D.O.N.
09-24-2012, 11:13 AM
DWill? He one of the biggest point guardsin the league who play well off the ball.

If tony parker made the list dwill should too!

KnickaBocka.44
09-24-2012, 01:12 PM
The simplified definition of a combo guard: a guard that lacks the desirable size to play shooting guard and lacks the court awareness/disribution ability to play point guard; in most cases they come off the bench.

Can we agree on this?

Jason Terry,Monta Ellis are examples

koreancabbage
09-24-2012, 01:21 PM
Wade
Ellis
Jack
Terry
Billups
Lou Williams
Stuckey
Jamal Crawford
Barbosa


to name a few off the top of my head

airforceones25
09-24-2012, 01:41 PM
Wade
Ellis
Jack
Terry
Billups
Lou Williams
Stuckey
Jamal Crawford
Barbosa


to name a few off the top of my head

James Harden
Eric Gordon
OJ Mayo

RealLiveBear
09-24-2012, 01:45 PM
PSD needs to get off Wade's nuts...

dee279
09-24-2012, 01:47 PM
lol, wade now is probably 3rd or 4th best guard in the nba

:facepalm:

RealLiveBear
09-24-2012, 01:58 PM
Westbrook

Year GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG

201112 66 66 35.3 .457 .316 .823 4.6 5.5 1.7 .3 23.6

Wade

201112 49 49 33.2 .497 .268 .791 4.8 4.6 1.7 1.3 22.1

For the love of god stop saying Wade is head and shoulders above everyone in the league. At this point in their careers Westbrook>Wade get over it. Wanna make fun of WB for poor shot selection go for it but in almost every single category WB is ahead of wade.

mrblisterdundee
09-24-2012, 02:22 PM
Monta Ellis.

Good point. I added him and booted off Tyreke Evans.

dee279
09-24-2012, 02:22 PM
Wade haters

dee279
09-24-2012, 02:23 PM
Good point. I added him and booted off Tyreke Evans.

I hope u booted off a couple of others too because alot of players you chose arent necessarily combo guards

mrblisterdundee
09-24-2012, 02:24 PM
This list is just awful lol

The point is to make your own list. But of course you just need to vent.

dee279
09-24-2012, 02:28 PM
Westbrook

Year GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG

201112 66 66 35.3 .457 .316 .823 4.6 5.5 1.7 .3 23.6

Wade

201112 49 49 33.2 .497 .268 .791 4.8 4.6 1.7 1.3 22.1

For the love of god stop saying Wade is head and shoulders above everyone in the league. At this point in their careers Westbrook>Wade get over it. Wanna make fun of WB for poor shot selection go for it but in almost every single category WB is ahead of wade.

Not saying hes head and shoulders but i would pick Wade over Westbrook anyday. You switch Wade and Westbrook and Thunder would have a championship and not the Heat. Thunder would probably have 2 because a Wade and Durant led thunder would have wooped Dallas in 2011. I know Lebron is a beast and all but so is Durant and Wade is too. Westbrook has his days. Wade would also allow Durant to score more because Wade wouldnt hog the ball.

Swashcuff
09-24-2012, 02:32 PM
I'm one of Westbrooks biggest defenders on PSD and even I can say that he isn't better than Wade at this point in their respective careers. First off there are much better stats out there than per game stats if you want to make a statistical comparison and secondly Westy has never missed a game since high school it's really not fair to compare his last season to one in which Wade played injured for the most part and come to a conclusion that he is less of a player an Westbrook as a result.

I'd say its closer than its ever been but Westy is by no means defiantly better than Wade.

IndyRealist
09-24-2012, 02:45 PM
Not saying hes head and shoulders but i would pick Wade over Westbrook anyday. You switch Wade and Westbrook and Thunder would have a championship and not the Heat. Thunder would probably have 2 because a Wade and Durant led thunder would have wooped Dallas in 2011. I know Lebron is a beast and all but so is Durant and Wade is too. Westbrook has his days. Wade would also allow Durant to score more because Wade wouldnt hog the ball.

Well I'm saying Wade is heads and shoulders above Westbrook. Wade has the edge on TS% by 2.1%, rebounds, blocks, steals, and a huge advantage in turnovers. Westbrook is better in assists and fouls. Wade scored 1.29 points per shot taken, Westbrook 1.23 PPS.

Westbrook would look much better if he figured out, like Wade before him, that he's not a 3pt shooter. He takes far too many for a guy who only shoots 31.6% (4 per 48 minutes played, vs. 1.7 for Wade). Wade is slightly better at everything except assists and fouls, and has a better shot selection to boot.

I'd take Wade over Westbrook any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And I really dislike the Heat.

KnickaBocka.44
09-24-2012, 04:04 PM
Well I'm saying Wade is heads and shoulders above Westbrook. Wade has the edge on TS% by 2.1%, rebounds, blocks, steals, and a huge advantage in turnovers. Westbrook is better in assists and fouls. Wade scored 1.29 points per shot taken, Westbrook 1.23 PPS.

Westbrook would look much better if he figured out, like Wade before him, that he's not a 3pt shooter. He takes far too many for a guy who only shoots 31.6% (4 per 48 minutes played, vs. 1.7 for Wade). Wade is slightly better at everything except assists and fouls, and has a better shot selection to boot.

I'd take Wade over Westbrook any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And I really dislike the Heat.

The thing about your post is that, given the different points they are at in their careers, all of the stats indicate that Westbrook is catching up to Wade and may, in fact, surpass him this coming season. None of the evidence suggest that he is "head and shoulders" above him. You mention a difference of .06 in PPS and a TS% difference of 2.1 like that is a huge difference, and it's not.

Swash and I got in a similar debate about a year ago when I was new here and he proved me completely wrong. Westbrook is just about as good at everything as Wade and is much younger and will only continue to improve, whereas Wade could keep declining and certainly wont sustain the level we are used to for much longer.

Westbrook's drop in assists per game last year ws pretty staggering for a PG, but that's the only area of concern for him as far as I'm concerned.

dtmagnet
09-24-2012, 04:08 PM
Half the players on your list aren't combo guards, arguably more than half of them.

mrblisterdundee
09-24-2012, 04:15 PM
Where is Ellis and why are Parker and Irving on this list? Plus Harden and Wade I would consider strictly SG's.

A combo guard is a basketball player who combines the attributes of a shooting guard (2) and point guard (1), but does not necessarily fit the standard description of either position. Such guards are usually within the 6'2" to 6'4" (1.88 to 1.93 m) height range.

Both Irving and Parker fit the bill. They focus more on scoring than purely distributing the ball. They are especially the kind of guards you'll see getting to the line a lot. Harden and Wade have also run the offense of their respective teams on many occassions, Wade less so since the arrival of James.
There's some people out their bashing my list without any facts. Post a list of your own, or try to actually give a reason or two for why you think my list is crap.

KnickaBocka.44
09-24-2012, 04:25 PM
The reason your list is crap is because Ellis is the best combo guard in the league and basically defines the term, yet he is missing from it. Parker averaged almost 8 assist per game last year, not a combo guard. Irving scoring out of necessity on a horrible team doesnt make him a combo guard.

Just because a player initiates the offense doesnt make him a combo guard. The term is more or less the equivalent of calling a a forward without a defined position a tweener. It's not necessarily a good thing, which is why there are so few of them who are effective in the NBA.

koreancabbage
09-24-2012, 04:36 PM
James Harden
Eric Gordon
OJ Mayo

I would define them as SGs

--23--
09-24-2012, 05:13 PM
This term always get brought up with PG's, so I always thought 'combo-guard' referred only to PG's who have the ability to score like a SG's and run the offense well.

Off the top of my head the top combo guards are...

D-Will
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Ellis
Lawson

Each of these guys can score like SG's and run the offense.

jerellh528
09-24-2012, 05:14 PM
I dunno about top 10 but the best combo guard is westbrook

nickdymez
09-24-2012, 05:47 PM
Why isnt Lebron on here? There are plenty of people here at PSD who think Lebron can play all 5 positions (Including center) at an all-star lever. So if thats the case, he should be able to play the 1 and 2 at an all-star level, hence making him a top combo guard in the league

naps
09-24-2012, 06:09 PM
HTF Wade is a combo guard? Wade is a plain shooting guard. He has been one ever since his sophomore season. Just because he has a lot of assists and he doesn't chuck up a lot of selfish shots doesn't make him a combo guard. He's the best guard on the planet along with CP3.

KnicksR4Real
09-24-2012, 06:19 PM
Dwyane Wade is overrated in my opinion...

lavilevi23
09-24-2012, 06:50 PM
Westbrook

Year GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG

201112 66 66 35.3 .457 .316 .823 4.6 5.5 1.7 .3 23.6

Wade

201112 49 49 33.2 .497 .268 .791 4.8 4.6 1.7 1.3 22.1

For the love of god stop saying Wade is head and shoulders above everyone in the league. At this point in their careers Westbrook>Wade get over it. Wanna make fun of WB for poor shot selection go for it but in almost every single category WB is ahead of wade.

Whatever helps you sleep at night...

nickdymez
09-24-2012, 06:57 PM
HTF Wade is a combo guard? Wade is a plain shooting guard. He has been one ever since his sophomore season. Just because he has a lot of assists and he doesn't chuck up a lot of selfish shots doesn't make him a combo guard. He's the best guard on the planet along with CP3.

Heat fans use the phrase "on the planet" to loosely.

mrblisterdundee
09-24-2012, 07:10 PM
I'm one of Westbrooks biggest defenders on PSD and even I can say that he isn't better than Wade at this point in their respective careers. First off there are much better stats out there than per game stats if you want to make a statistical comparison and secondly Westy has never missed a game since high school it's really not fair to compare his last season to one in which Wade played injured for the most part and come to a conclusion that he is less of a player an Westbrook as a result.

I'd say its closer than its ever been but Westy is by no means defiantly better than Wade.

Injuries should be included in how good a player is - their body is playing the basketball. The fact that Wade is more injury-prone is part of why Westbrook, who isn't, is more valuable.

5ass
09-24-2012, 07:42 PM
lebron james

DR_1
09-24-2012, 08:01 PM
WBrick cannot polish Wades shoes.
Wade >>> Westbrook

Even an injured Wade was a better player then WBrick last season imo.

Healthy Wade will be the best guard in the league with only Paul bothering him.

:laugh:

Anyway, the OP's post cracked me up. Since when are Westbrook, Wade, and Harden better than a healthy Rose :laugh2: I'd love to see some back up

IndyRealist
09-24-2012, 08:11 PM
The thing about your post is that, given the different points they are at in their careers, all of the stats indicate that Westbrook is catching up to Wade and may, in fact, surpass him this coming season. None of the evidence suggest that he is "head and shoulders" above him. You mention a difference of .06 in PPS and a TS% difference of 2.1 like that is a huge difference, and it's not.

Swash and I got in a similar debate about a year ago when I was new here and he proved me completely wrong. Westbrook is just about as good at everything as Wade and is much younger and will only continue to improve, whereas Wade could keep declining and certainly wont sustain the level we are used to for much longer.

Westbrook's drop in assists per game last year ws pretty staggering for a PG, but that's the only area of concern for him as far as I'm concerned.

A TS% difference of 2.1% is very large when you take 26 shots per 48 minutes like Westbrook does. A .06 PPS difference is HUGE. In PPS, Wade is as far above Westbrook as Westy is above a bench player (an average guard being 1.16PPS). Being slightly better at virtually everything makes Wade a lot better overall.

It's like the Jeff Green argument. He's slightly below average at everything. Below average on 2's, on 3's, rebounding, assists, blocks, steals, eFG, TS%, PPS. Yet somehow because he's slightly below average at everything, that makes him "versatile" and worth $40 million. Westbrook is behind Wade in almost every category, so somehow that makes him "close".

Now there's always the age argument. But it's hard to tell if Wade really dropped off, or if he adapted to a new role. And while Westbrook could improve and Wade has probably plateaued, Westbrook MIGHT not improve. There's no guarantee he will. As far as I'm concerned, a player is what he is until he proves otherwise.

IndyRealist
09-24-2012, 08:31 PM
A combo guard is a basketball player who combines the attributes of a shooting guard (2) and point guard (1), but does not necessarily fit the standard description of either position. Such guards are usually within the 6'2" to 6'4" (1.88 to 1.93 m) height range.

Both Irving and Parker fit the bill. They focus more on scoring than purely distributing the ball. They are especially the kind of guards you'll see getting to the line a lot. Harden and Wade have also run the offense of their respective teams on many occassions, Wade less so since the arrival of James.
There's some people out their bashing my list without any facts. Post a list of your own, or try to actually give a reason or two for why you think my list is crap.

I almost always take combo guards to be SG's with some playmaking skills, rather than PG's that shoot a lot. They can dribble, pass well, and initiate plays, but generally don't have the skills or mentality to play PG full time. Otherwise they'd be a PG. The terminology kind of muddles things.

MadVillainZay
09-24-2012, 09:07 PM
You really need to reevaluate your definition of a 'combo guard'

Right I agree. Tony Parker is a ****ing point guard.:facepalm:

beasted86
09-24-2012, 09:36 PM
Westbrook

Year GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG

2011–12 66 66 35.3 .457 .316 .823 4.6 5.5 1.7 .3 23.6

Wade

2011–12 49 49 33.2 .497 .268 .791 4.8 4.6 1.7 1.3 22.1

For the love of god stop saying Wade is head and shoulders above everyone in the league. At this point in their careers Westbrook>Wade get over it. Wanna make fun of WB for poor shot selection go for it but in almost every single category WB is ahead of wade.

And yet Wade is ahead of Westbrook in PER, ORtg, DRtg, WS/48, etc.....

Look, I don't buy into those "theory" stats, but basically if not 1 or 2, but many of those stats are saying one guy is better than the other, then if you come away still thinking Westbrook is better than Wade, chances are you are wrong.

Westbrook isn't the defender Wade is, is more turnover prone, and is not as efficient scoring. It might not be a huge gap, but it's pretty distinct that Wade is better than Westbrook even coming off one of his weaker years.

naps
09-25-2012, 12:54 AM
Heat fans use the phrase "on the planet" to loosely.

Because we can. Because we have the best on the planet while you don't. Burns your inside? Then don't watch.

Swashcuff
09-25-2012, 09:20 AM
And yet Wade is ahead of Westbrook in PER, ORtg, DRtg, WS/48, etc.....

Look, I don't buy into those "theory" stats, but basically if not 1 or 2, but many of those stats are saying one guy is better than the other, then if you come away still thinking Westbrook is better than Wade, chances are you are wrong.

Westbrook isn't the defender Wade is, is more turnover prone, and is not as efficient scoring. It might not be a huge gap, but it's pretty distinct that Wade is better than Westbrook even coming off one of his weaker years.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

nickdymez
09-25-2012, 09:28 AM
Because we can. Because we have the best on the planet while you don't. Burns your inside? Then don't watch.

How many championships again? We have 16. Your turn.

strahan92osi72
09-25-2012, 09:34 AM
PSD needs to get off Wade's nuts...

I mean seriously, what year are they living in 2006? It's time they take that time machine back to 2012. :facepalm:

koreancabbage
09-25-2012, 10:05 AM
I mean seriously, what year are they living in 2006? It's time they take that time machine back to 2012. :facepalm:

and yet his stats say otherwise. Wade with his 50% shooting and blocks are one thing that really puts him over the edge when it comes to shooting guards/combo guards. Noone really like him right now at his position. Its not like he dropped completely off the radar.

one year of Westbrook putting up great peripheral numbers (ppg,rpg,apg) similar to Wade's worst year does not make Westbrook a better player.

I would say lets wait till next year if Wade declines some more to warrant a statement like Westbrook> Wade even though Wade's expanded numbers are similar or better to Westbrook this year. redonculous. one great playoff and people are like riding his banana hammock like no tomorrow.