PDA

View Full Version : 5th Annual PSD Player Rankings #12 Player In The NBA? (Volume: V)



Mile High Champ
09-21-2012, 03:10 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last four years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. The season is now over and the Heat have been crowned NBA champs which means its time to kick off the off-season player rankings.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron was labelled by some as Choke Artist in the clutch and now this year had one of the greatest finals performances in recent memory. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for two days and than we can carry on to the next best player in the league. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 4 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best

Rules of adding players to the Voting Process

In terms of adding players to the poll, it will be done like this.

As soon as Deron Williams goes off the board, I will add other PG's.
As soon as Manu Ginobili goes off the board, I will add other SG's
As soon as LaMarcus Aldridge goes off the board, I will add other PF's.

And so on and so on..

This is to ensure that players that won their respective positions get a higher place in the list.

Current Player Comparison:


_____________ Player Season ____ Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Paul Pierce 2011-12 34 61 2075 19.6 .567 .499 2.2 15.2 9.0 24.3 1.8 1.0 14.2 28.1 106 99 3.3 3.7 7.0 .161
2 Andrew Bynum 2011-12 24 60 2112 22.9 .594 .558 10.6 26.1 18.7 7.4 0.7 4.0 13.9 23.8 112 100 4.8 3.3 8.0 .183
3 Manu Ginobili 2011-12 34 34 792 24.1 .668 .618 2.7 13.9 8.4 30.3 1.6 1.1 16.3 22.7 125 104 3.4 0.9 4.2 .257
4 LaMarcus Aldridge 2011-12 26 55 1994 22.7 .560 .513 8.6 17.5 12.9 13.2 1.3 1.7 9.5 27.0 113 106 5.4 1.6 7.0 .169
5 Deron Williams 2011-12 27 55 1999 20.3 .527 .467 1.3 9.6 5.3 46.6 1.8 0.8 16.7 30.1 106 111 3.7 0.4 4.1 .099
2012 NBA Off-Season Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Dwight Howard
4) Chris Paul
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Dwyane Wade
7) Kevin Love
8) Derrick Rose
9) Dirk Nowitzki
10) Russell Westbrook
11) Carmelo Anthony
12)
13)
14)
15)


2011 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Kevin Durant
8) Derrick Rose
9) Deron Williams
10) Carmelo Anthony

2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy[/CODE]

2012 NBA Off-Season Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Dwight Howard
4) Chris Paul
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Dwyane Wade
7) Kevin Love
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)


2011 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Kevin Durant
8) Derrick Rose
9) Deron Williams
10) Carmelo Anthony

2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

Mile High Champ
09-21-2012, 03:13 PM
Give me Manu here again but he will probably be over looked by Bynum anyway.

Chacarron
09-21-2012, 03:14 PM
Andrew Bynum.

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 03:14 PM
Bynum. Manu missed too many games and minutes for me. Otherwise he would have been my vote 2-3 players ago possibly.

beasted86
09-21-2012, 03:16 PM
I don't get it... can you explain what possible reasoning Manu is better than Bynum?

Defense and rebounding it's so lopsided, so you better make one hell of a case for whatever apparent offensive gap you see.

mrblisterdundee
09-21-2012, 03:23 PM
Because of health concerns, I'll have to go with Deron Williams over Andrew Bynum.

Stunner
09-21-2012, 03:28 PM
Because of health concerns, I'll have to go with Deron Williams over Andrew Bynum.

Williams was just as injuried as Bynum was last year though

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 03:34 PM
4x a charm

going BYnum here

5ass
09-21-2012, 03:35 PM
Williams is better than bynum easily

NYYCowboys
09-21-2012, 03:37 PM
I went with Deron. I just can't bring myself to vote for a guy who has been healthy for one season his entire career, and has been a 3rd option his entire career. Let's see how he does as a #1 option next year before I vote him over established #1s like Deron, and LMA.

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 03:37 PM
Bynum. Manu missed too many games and minutes for me. Otherwise he would have been my vote 2-3 players ago possibly.

Yah I weighed the same with Rose

Melo should have been 10 :D

DoMeFavors
09-21-2012, 03:38 PM
No way in hell Bynum is better than Deron, has Bynum ever been the 1st option? no

Deron has and went to WCF by himself

Deron is better than Bynum ever will be

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 03:38 PM
No way in hell Bynum is better than Deron, has Bynum ever been the 1st option? no

Deron has and went to WCF by himself

Deron is better than Bynum ever will be

Read the OP

Bruno
09-21-2012, 03:41 PM
No way in hell Bynum is better than Deron, has Bynum ever been the 1st option? no

Deron has and went to WCF by himself

Deron is better than Bynum ever will be

We're on the #12 player rankings now, meaning that we've done this eleven times this off-season. you should consider reading the OP once before the end of voting.

Bruno
09-21-2012, 03:42 PM
I took Bynum. Offense can be debated with several others, perhaps edge to several others, but Bynum can anchor a team defense. can any other player on the list do that?

LAKERMANIA
09-21-2012, 03:48 PM
Give me Andrew Bynum here

Chronz
09-21-2012, 03:55 PM
I just noticed Melo won, Im going Bynum here just cuz Manu is getting older and Bynum is getting his own team.

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 04:18 PM
^ late to the party buddy

Andrew32
09-21-2012, 04:31 PM
I am a Knick fan and even I don't think Melo > Bynum, lol.

Also Gasol > Aldridge

JasonJohnHorn
09-21-2012, 04:35 PM
How the fawk is Bynum still up on this fawking list?

NYYCowboys
09-21-2012, 04:40 PM
If it's based on last season why is Tony Parker not even an option? I thought he was by far better than Deron last year. I would consider voting for him here or possibly next.

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 04:43 PM
^when Derons off the board other PGs will be added

Check the OP my man

Bruno
09-21-2012, 05:10 PM
I am a Knick fan and even I don't think Melo > Bynum, lol.

Also Gasol > Aldridge

last season? close, edge aldridge imo

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gasolpa01&y1=2012&p2=aldrila01&y2=2012

LA is in his prime, Gasol isn't.

NYYCowboys
09-21-2012, 05:21 PM
^when Derons off the board other PGs will be added

Check the OP my man

I know the rules. It's just dumb. I get trying to get more value for being the best at your position, but best player for every position has already been named, so why not just open up the poll now...

Bruno
09-21-2012, 05:25 PM
If it's based on last season why is Tony Parker not even an option? I thought he was by far better than Deron last year. I would consider voting for him here or possibly next.

Parker finished 5th in regular season MVP voting. D-Will had an average season at best and has no business being ahead of Tony Parker in the PG rankings.

knicks=love
09-21-2012, 05:28 PM
carmelo is 11th? i'm gonna have to check how many knicks fans voted for him in the last poll. don't think he should've been 11 IMO.

edit: me and one other knicks fan (from what i know) were the only ones not to vote for carmelo. i'm going to say about 90% of those 59 votes were knicks fans :pity: carmelo should NOT be ahead of bynum and deron on this list.

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 05:28 PM
Parker finished 5th in regular season MVP voting. D-Will had an average season at best and has no business being ahead of Tony Parker in the PG rankings.

Agree

As far as Dwill-Dwill phoned it in most nights I felt he didnt want to be there

I expect a big turnaround from him this year

EDUTEXANS
09-21-2012, 05:29 PM
Bynum. Without a doubt the second best center, and he isn't that far away from Howard. Williams is next.

Bruno
09-21-2012, 05:30 PM
Agree

As far as Dwill-Dwill phoned it in most nights I felt he didnt want to be there

I expect a big turnaround from him this year

if he doesn't, he loses all merit as an elite PG, imo. you can't rack several average years in a row and still have your name in the conversation with Paul, Rose, Parker, Rondo, ect.

but i think he will too. the pieces are there, he'll play with passion for the first time since Utah.

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 05:32 PM
Bynum. Without a doubt the second best center, and he isn't that far away from Howard. Williams is next.

I dunno Im leaning Pierce in this spot

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 05:39 PM
I know the rules. It's just dumb. I get trying to get more value for being the best at your position, but best player for every position has already been named, so why not just open up the poll now...

Unfortunately, you can't remove the high number of Laker or NY fans here, so Kobe was a bad pick for top SG, as is Deron ahead of either Parker or Rondo.

Rules is rules man, vote for who you think the best player on the board is. If everyone did that, there would be just a few mistakes, versus a lot in the old voting.

Baller1
09-21-2012, 05:40 PM
Can't believe D-Will is still falling... Wow.

StarvingKnick22
09-21-2012, 05:47 PM
Im not voting seeing as Westbrook is over Melo.

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 05:54 PM
^I didnt agree with all the votes, read the OP

start your own OP/poll

your good at it homie

NYYCowboys
09-21-2012, 06:09 PM
Unfortunately, you can't remove the high number of Laker or NY fans here, so Kobe was a bad pick for top SG, as is Deron ahead of either Parker or Rondo.

Rules is rules man, vote for who you think the best player on the board is. If everyone did that, there would be just a few mistakes, versus a lot in the old voting.

That's true. I get it. But having a poll of the CURRENT best players and having a guy, who finished 5th in the MVP voting last year, not even an option for 12th best player is a little ridiculous.

beasted86
09-21-2012, 06:14 PM
Whoever says Deron's 2011-12 season was better than Bynum's is a bloodclot idiot!

jericho
09-21-2012, 06:22 PM
got deron here some people tend to forget that when you have good players around it makes your job easier to score rebound or do whatever cuz they know there roles ex bynum although he likes to take 3s wtf lol
deron didnt have any help last year so his numbers were supposed to take a hit efficiency and stuff like that while his scoring avg would obviously go up a lil

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 06:26 PM
That's true. I get it. But having a poll of the CURRENT best players and having a guy, who finished 5th in the MVP voting last year, not even an option for 12th best player is a little ridiculous.

oh totally. But the Spurs don't have much of a fanbase on sports forums, so its up to the rational voters to put Parker where he belongs. And there obviously are a much larger number of homer voters from the west and east coast that throw off these polls. But the way MHC is doing it as is good as it can get with the balance of fans so heavy on just a few teams.

Corey
09-21-2012, 06:26 PM
Williams is better than bynum easilyNope. Not last year.


I went with Deron. I just can't bring myself to vote for a guy who has been healthy for one season his entire career, and has been a 3rd option his entire career. Let's see how he does as a #1 option next year before I vote him over established #1s like Deron, and LMA.Bringing in previous seasons to determine who the better player is right now?


No way in hell Bynum is better than Deron, has Bynum ever been the 1st option? no

Deron has and went to WCF by himself

Deron is better than Bynum ever will beAgain, bringing in Deron's accomplishments when he was on a different team a few years ago?

Please.


got deron here some people tend to forget that when you have good players around it makes your job easier to score rebound or do whatever cuz they know there roles ex bynum although he likes to take 3s wtf lol
deron didnt have any help last year so his numbers were supposed to take a hit efficiency and stuff like that while his scoring avg would obviously go up a lil
Really? What team was Kyrie Irving on? How come he was able to absolutely destroy Deron in terms of efficiency?

Bynum all day on this poll.

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 06:28 PM
got deron here some people tend to forget that when you have good players around it makes your job easier to score rebound or do whatever cuz they know there roles ex bynum although he likes to take 3s wtf lol
deron didnt have any help last year so his numbers were supposed to take a hit efficiency and stuff like that while his scoring avg would obviously go up a lil

2 things:

1- explain Deron's checking out of numerous games, and not playing hard
2- explain Kevin Love's numbers over the past 2 years if talent is needed to lift a players numbers. Explain LeBron's numbers in Cleveland.

Deron ran Sloan out of town, was hurt, traded, and sulked for 2 years. He has to redeem himself more than any other star in the NBA.

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 06:31 PM
K Love for president

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 06:33 PM
K Love for president

well, you know what I mean, and there are plenty of examples. If Deron's numbers took a hit playing with far lesser talent, is he really a franchise player? Or is he a complimentary player? Because franchise players advanced numbers shoot upwards or at least stay elite when they carry more of a load. Complimentary players numbers dip.

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 06:44 PM
I see Deron as a franchise player

I think he phoned it in last year, I dont believe it was because of his arsenal

or a trend, I see great things from DWill next year

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 06:47 PM
I see Deron as a franchise player

I think he phoned it in last year, I dont believe it was because of his arsenal

or a trend, I see great things from DWill next year

Does a franchise player run off one of the greatest coaches of all time? I was sold on Deron being a franchise player in years 2-5, the last couple, not at all. He has to redeem himself to belong in the elite conversation this season.

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 06:52 PM
Does a franchise player run off one of the greatest coaches of all time? I was sold on Deron being a franchise player in years 2-5, the last couple, not at all. He has to redeem himself to belong in the elite conversation this season.

How long does a head coach last/influence players without need of change?

Probably 5 years IMO

Deron will turn it around

Basically I agree/disagree with you for the most part

Corey
09-21-2012, 06:59 PM
Does a franchise player run off one of the greatest coaches of all time? I was sold on Deron being a franchise player in years 2-5, the last couple, not at all. He has to redeem himself to belong in the elite conversation this season.

That's the kicker...He's been a significantly less productive player since he ran Sloan out. Funny how that works.

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 06:59 PM
How long does a head coach last/influence players without need of change?

Probably 5 years IMO

Deron will turn it around

Basically I agree/disagree with you for the most part

His mail it in season last year is why I am saying this. An injury/coaching strife year I can look past, but what about him just totally and completely mailing it in last year? I can't overlook that. He needs to show he belongs in the elite level again. I mean, the dude was 90th in win shares. 90th. That doesn't suggest a star player in the slightest.

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 07:00 PM
That's the kicker...He's been a significantly less productive player since he ran Sloan out. Funny how that works.

I have mentioned that before. Something Deron fans simply overlook.

More-Than-Most
09-21-2012, 07:03 PM
Bynum...He should have gone before melo but Bynum here

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 07:07 PM
His mail it in season last year is why I am saying this. An injury/coaching strife year I can look past, but what about him just totally and completely mailing it in last year? I can't overlook that. He needs to show he belongs in the elite level again. I mean, the dude was 90th in win shares. 90th. That doesn't suggest a star player in the slightest.

I agree, but, there's an NY factor few understand

Im all in for the DWill movement next year, which will be well deserved...

But I also have Melo MVP, grain of salt?

Cant wait for this season, where do you have your pups next year?

Ive been keeping an eye on them since spree/KG/Cassell...

jericho
09-21-2012, 07:08 PM
Nope. Not last year.

Bringing in previous seasons to determine who the better player is right now?

Again, bringing in Deron's accomplishments when he was on a different team a few years ago?

Please.


Really? What team was Kyrie Irving on? How come he was able to absolutely destroy Deron in terms of efficiency?

Bynum all day on this poll.

cmon pls he still had jamison old but still a good player varejao played for what 25 games or so still better than wtvr d-will had and alonzo gee was a surprise player for them 2 they have some good role players there in the cavs the just need a player here and there and they would be in the playoffs i forgot to mention tristan thompson 2
on d-will's end he had lopez for 5 games wallace for 10-15 games his second best player was humphries cmon humphries are you really comparing there situation sorry forgot bout marshon but still d-will had way less to work with than irving not to downplay him or anything


2 things:

1- explain Deron's checking out of numerous games, and not playing hard
2- explain Kevin Love's numbers over the past 2 years if talent is needed to lift a players numbers. Explain LeBron's numbers in Cleveland.

Deron ran Sloan out of town, was hurt, traded, and sulked for 2 years. He has to redeem himself more than any other star in the NBA.

1-didnt know that i dont follow the nets i hate the nets im a knick lol
2-love i like him cant wait for him to get in to the playoffs already i like my boy rubio 2 and now that ou roy there as well ima be rooting for the t-wolves but he still had better help than d-will in beasley crazy but still pekovic rubio lidnour barea im glad you guys traded wesley johnson cuz he sucked bad oh and derick williams 2 i cant speak bout the year b4 that cuz we are talking bout these past yr not the previous 1s and lebron he was just a freak cant prove you wrong in that 1 lebron and d-will dont belong in the same conversation

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 07:10 PM
I agree, but, there's an NY factor few understand

Im all in for the DWill movement next year, which will be well deserved...

But I also have Melo MVP, grain of salt?

Cant wait for this season, where do you have your pups next year?

Ive been keeping an eye on them since spree/KG/Cassell...

I have the Wolves winning 50 games and getting the 7th seed. And then being destroyed by the #2 seed Lakers. I would kill to draw San Antonio, and then OKC, in that order before playing the Lakers.

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 07:12 PM
1-didnt know that i dont follow the nets i hate the nets im a knick lol

yeah man, pull up Deron's game logs, his opponents play, and his advanced numbers. So pedestrian considering what he was doing under Sloan.


2-love i like him cant wait for him to get in to the playoffs already i like my boy rubio 2 and now that ou roy there as well ima be rooting for the t-wolves but he still had better help than d-will in beasley crazy but still pekovic rubio lidnour barea im glad you guys traded wesley johnson cuz he sucked bad oh and derick williams 2 i cant speak bout the year b4 that cuz we are talking bout these past yr not the previous 1s and lebron he was just a freak cant prove you wrong in that 1 lebron and d-will dont belong in the same conversation

Rubio should be back in early December, and I think Roy will start out strong, so the loss of Rubio early (Wolves play 5 out of their 14 November games against playoff teams from last year, subbing out Orlando, subbing in Brooklyn to get that number) won't hurt as bad, and Love has real help, so no excuses for him if they miss the playoffs again, unless injuries machine gun the roster.

jericho
09-21-2012, 07:15 PM
2 things:

1- explain Deron's checking out of numerous games, and not playing hard
2- explain Kevin Love's numbers over the past 2 years if talent is needed to lift a players numbers. Explain LeBron's numbers in Cleveland.

Deron ran Sloan out of town, was hurt, traded, and sulked for 2 years. He has to redeem himself more than any other star in the NBA.

forgot bout this thing yeah i know bout that thats why im less of a fan of his jerry sloan is/was 1 of the best coaches the league had he knows how to win i really think it was stupid for deron to do what he did to him but still putting that aside he was still better than bynum last yr his eff aint gonna do him good but would still take d-will b4 bynum
damn im talking bout d-will and bynum wth

Eagles4Lyfe
09-21-2012, 07:15 PM
Deron williams is the only guy on that list that makes people better or has proven he can make people better and taken players games to the next level i'm sorry but where was bynum in the playoffs as the so called number one??

Gimme Deron everyday all day

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 07:16 PM
I have the Wolves winning 50 games and getting the 7th seed. And then being destroyed by the #2 seed Lakers. I would kill to draw San Antonio, and then OKC, in that order before playing the Lakers.

shooting low huh

I see you excelling further,

Remember the 93-94 sonics, shocked the world, not the same I know

Look forward to this season I'm amped Homie!

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 07:17 PM
not the same close enough

Kendall Gill HOF should I start a thread?

jerellh528
09-21-2012, 07:49 PM
Dwill is one of the most talented players in the league, but im going bynum here just based on Dwills last year or 2 of giving up on his play.

beasted86
09-21-2012, 07:50 PM
Deron williams is the only guy on that list that makes people better or has proven he can make people better and taken players games to the next level i'm sorry but where was bynum in the playoffs as the so called number one??

Gimme Deron everyday all day

Was Deron even in the playoffs?

b@llhog24
09-21-2012, 08:49 PM
cmon pls he still had jamison old but still a good player varejao played for what 25 games or so still better than wtvr d-will had and alonzo gee was a surprise player for them 2 they have some good role players there in the cavs the just need a player here and there and they would be in the playoffs i forgot to mention tristan thompson 2
on d-will's end he had lopez for 5 games wallace for 10-15 games his second best player was humphries cmon humphries are you really comparing there situation sorry forgot bout marshon but still d-will had way less to work with than irving not to downplay him or anything

Jamison sucks. #thatisall

greg_ory_2005
09-21-2012, 09:36 PM
I'll go with Deron

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-21-2012, 10:00 PM
You know what I noticed?


Look at the guys in the rankings in 2009.


1) Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers)
2) Lebron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) - Now with the Miami Heat
3) Dwayne Wade (Miami Heat)
4) Chris Paul (New Orleans Hornets) - Now with the Los Angeles Clippers
5) Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic) - Now with the Los Angeles Lakers
6) Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs)
7) Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas Mavericks)
8) Carmelo Anthony (Denver Nuggets) - Now with the New York Knicks
9) Kevin Garnett (Boston Celtics)
10) Brandon Roy (Portland Trailblazers) - Now with the Minnesota Timberwolves

And you look at 2010 with Deron Williams (Utah Jazz) - Now with the Brooklyn Nets


Over half of those superstars I just listed are with different franchises, all in a 2-3 yr span! :speechless:

jericho
09-21-2012, 10:16 PM
Jamison sucks. #thatisall

you can say he sux all you want but he has been a very underrated player his hole carrer
and 17.5 pg 6.3 rbg has almos 20,000 points in his career and almost 8000 rebs i dont think those are numbers for some 1 who sucks

jericho
09-21-2012, 10:18 PM
You know what I noticed?


Look at the guys in the rankings in 2009.


1) Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers)
2) Lebron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) - Now with the Miami Heat
3) Dwayne Wade (Miami Heat)
4) Chris Paul (New Orleans Hornets) - Now with the Los Angeles Clippers
5) Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic) - Now with the Los Angeles Lakers
6) Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs)
7) Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas Mavericks)
8) Carmelo Anthony (Denver Nuggets) - Now with the New York Knicks
9) Kevin Garnett (Boston Celtics)
10) Brandon Roy (Portland Trailblazers) - Now with the Minnesota Timberwolves

And you look at 2010 with Deron Williams (Utah Jazz) - Now with the Brooklyn Nets


Over half of those superstars I just listed are with different franchises, all in a 2-3 yr span! :speechless:

from this gen only kobe duncan dirk and pierce are gonna retire with the same team idk bout wade yet sometimes management stab there players in the back

Mishmin
09-21-2012, 10:31 PM
Rondo>Bynum

jericho
09-21-2012, 10:33 PM
Rondo>Bynum

im with you on that bynum is really overrated here we will see what he can do now that he has the spotlight on him

jerellh528
09-21-2012, 11:04 PM
im with you on that bynum is really overrated here we will see what he can do now that he has the spotlight on him

I would argue that bynum is under rated and this season should prove is, he will be philly's focal point.

Mishmin
09-21-2012, 11:23 PM
I think Bynum is a good player, and will do well in Phili. But whatever Bynum achieves this season, Rondo has already proven much more.

b@llhog24
09-22-2012, 12:29 AM
Jamison sucks. #thatisall

you can say he sux all you want but he has been a very underrated player his hole carrer
and 17.5 pg 6.3 rbg has almos 20,000 points in his career and almost 8000 rebs i dont think those are numbers for some 1 who sucks

I meant last season.

Hustlenomics
09-22-2012, 12:35 AM
how in the world is bynum a better basket ball player than deron williams

b@llhog24
09-22-2012, 12:44 AM
how in the world is bynum a better basket ball player than deron williams

He has a better barber.

Swashcuff
09-22-2012, 08:08 AM
No chance Williams is better than Bynum this past season. Williams played some of the worst D I've seen from a top tier PG since Steve Nash and even Nash has been better defensively than Williams this past season despite Williams being younger, bigger, stronger, quicker etc.

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-22-2012, 09:35 AM
HA! MY VOTE BROKE THE TIE!

i chose dwill of course.

than of course bynum next.

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-22-2012, 09:40 AM
No chance Williams is better than Bynum this past season. Williams played some of the worst D I've seen from a top tier PG since Steve Nash and even Nash has been better defensively than Williams this past season despite Williams being younger, bigger, stronger, quicker etc.

did u watch every game Deron Williams play or go off by those defensive stats?

DWill is not known for his defense, however, there is a reason why he was chosen along with westbrook and CP3 to represent America, and with the tools he had in New Jersey, it safe to say that Dwill is a better overall player than Bynum, who was the second or third option in LA.

2 different positions to analyze, but unless you watched every single nets game, and saw that dwill played horribly, and at the same time watched all the lakers game that bynum played in, and compare and contrasted the two, i wouldnt be quick to pull the trigger to go down that road.

SteBO
09-22-2012, 09:56 AM
In what world was Deron Williams better than Bynum last season?

xxplayerxx23
09-22-2012, 10:35 AM
Did I read Rondo>Bynum :eyebrow:

rgluch74
09-22-2012, 10:49 AM
lame to do this here, but I need some fantasy owners, come join

http://games.espn.go.com/fba/leagueoffice?leagueId=1790&seasonId=2013

Swashcuff
09-22-2012, 10:54 AM
did u watch every game Deron Williams play or go off by those defensive stats?

Actually I paid attention to DWill's game a whole lot more ever since he was traded into the same division as my favorite team. I watched him play and saw a very underwhelming defensive prescnece at the PG. Someone who used his size and strength to his advantage quite a lot in his Utah days just seeming unwilling to really get up in the opposing PGs face and dare him to beat him, dare him to score on him. When I check every single defnesive metric they back what I saw and Deron has been chastised about it from many others as well.


DWill isnot known for his defense,

Actually he was known for it in Utah. He want elite by any means but he made the opposing teams PG work very hard every single night. For the past season + he's been known as one of the weakest defnesive PGs in all of the NBA that's a BUGE difference.


however, there is a reason why he was chosen along with westbrook and CP3 to represent America,

No ish Sherlock. He was there Is Beijing in 08 and in Las Vegas in 07 when the US came away with the gold on both occasions. It's only logical that a top 3 American PG over that span will get chosen on Team USA. You're acting as if I'm saying Deron is a scrub or something.


and with the tools he had in New Jersey, it safe to say that Dwill is a better overall player than Bynum, who was the second or third option in LA.

Okay that makes absolutely no sense. It's safe to say that Deron is better than Bunum because he scored a lot on a team where he was the best player? I guess he doesn't need to play any D right?


2 different positions to analyze, but unless you watched every single nets game, and saw that dwill played horribly, and at the same time watched all the lakers game that bynum played in, and compare and contrasted the two, i wouldnt be quick to pull the trigger to go down that road.

well I think that none of us should bother to have this conversation since youre essentially telling me that no one can have a informed opinion if they didn't see every game both players played. I'd venture to bet that there isn't a single poster on PSD that watched every single minute Deron Williams and Andrew Bynum last season.

MHC bro you're wasting your time no one can take part in these arguments since we don't watch every single game that every single player plays.

Dade County
09-22-2012, 11:40 AM
Quick question... Does Bosh name go up when Aldridge is off the poll?

Baller1
09-22-2012, 12:11 PM
Glad D-will came back, now someone break the tie. D-Will has already fallen enough.

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-22-2012, 12:24 PM
In what world was Deron Williams better than Bynum last season?

Planet Earth?

Mishmin
09-22-2012, 12:32 PM
Did I read Rondo>Bynum :eyebrow:

You sure did.

29$JerZ
09-22-2012, 12:37 PM
You can use the "teammates around him stunk" excuse but it doesn't fully excuse Deron for dropping off.

Guys like Rose and Westbrook have clearly surpassed him.
He needs an incredible bounce back season to regain his Top 2 PG spot.
He fell out a while ago.

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-22-2012, 12:43 PM
ok i wont even discuss dwill's less important games, lets see how he matched up against the elite pg's in the league, shall we?

Thunder vs Nets- Westbrook- 9/21- 21 points.
Spurs vs nets- Parker- 4/11- 12 points.
Celtics vs Nets- Rondo- 2/8- 4 points. (granted rondo isnt a scoring pg)
Celtics vs nets- Rondo- 7/16- 14 points.
Celtics vs Nets- Rondo- 4/8- 8 points.
Bulls vs Nets- Rose- 2/3- 4 points. (played only 11 mins)
Bulls vs Nets- Rose- 9/16- 22 points.
Clippers vs Nets- CP3- 7/11- 22 points.

again, noone is saying he is an elite defender, because hes not top 3 in defensive point guards at all..

But.. he isnt that bad of a defender as youre making him, and thats fine because Dwill always gets overlooked.

thanks.

Btw the nets team offense and defense.

Type Pts Poss pPts FG% eFG% FTA FT oReb dReb T/O
Offense 93.1 90 103 0.425 0.473 21.7 78% 30 % 68 % 16 %
Defense 99.1 90 110 0.472 0.513 22.6 74% 31 % 69 % 15 %

(per 100 possessions)

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-22-2012, 12:44 PM
You can use the "teammates around him stunk" excuse but it doesn't fully excuse Deron for dropping off.

Guys like Rose and Westbrook have clearly surpassed him.
He needs an incredible bounce back season to regain his Top 2 PG spot.
He fell out a while ago.

fair enough.

seikou8
09-22-2012, 12:44 PM
You can use the "teammates around him stunk" excuse but it doesn't fully excuse Deron for dropping off.

Guys like Rose and Westbrook have clearly surpassed him.
He needs an incredible bounce back season to regain his Top 2 PG spot.
He fell out a while ago.

this klove is balling and his teammates stink that excuse is overused and stupid

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-22-2012, 12:46 PM
this klove is balling and his teammates stink that excuse is overused and stupid

but that is why klove is better than dwill...

Swashcuff
09-22-2012, 12:50 PM
ok i wont even discuss dwill's less important games, lets see how he matched up against the elite pg's in the league, shall we?

Thunder vs Nets- Westbrook- 9/21- 21 points.
Spurs vs nets- Parker- 4/11- 12 points.
Celtics vs Nets- Rondo- 2/8- 4 points. (granted rondo isnt a scoring pg)
Celtics vs nets- Rondo- 7/16- 14 points.
Celtics vs Nets- Rondo- 4/8- 8 points.
Bulls vs Nets- Rose- 2/3- 4 points. (played only 11 mins)
Bulls vs Nets- Rose- 9/16- 22 points.
Clippers vs Nets- CP3- 7/11- 22 points.

again, noone is saying he is an elite defender, because hes not top 3 in defensive point guards at all..

But.. he isnt that bad of a defender as youre making him, and thats fine because Dwill always gets overlooked.

thanks.

Btw the nets team offense and defense.

Type Pts Poss pPts FG% eFG% FTA FT oReb dReb T/O
Offense 93.1 90 103 0.425 0.473 21.7 78% 30 % 68 % 16 %
Defense 99.1 90 110 0.472 0.513 22.6 74% 31 % 69 % 15 %

(per 100 possessions)

Did you watch D Will play every game last season? You said I can't make an opinion because I didn't watch him play well practice what you preach.

Swashcuff
09-22-2012, 12:53 PM
but that is why klove is better than dwill...

Did Kevin Love shoot horrendously last season? Did Kevin Love play the worst defense of his career? Does Kevin Love play in the Eastern Conference? He breaks the mold of the whole being inefficient with poor teammates. He's still extremely efficient elite in the clutch still managed to be a top 5 scorer in the league.

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-22-2012, 12:57 PM
Did you watch D Will play every game last season? You said I can't make an opinion because I didn't watch him play well practice what you preach.

nice.
I watched the important games, and based off of what i saw, i felt dwill was a much better player than you are giving him credit for.

and the stats prove it.

lol
and yes i do agree about not judging a player's FULL ability, when you havent seen all of the games. Making strong cases like he is a defensive liability and what not.

what we know.. is that dwill played pretty good with that awful new jersey team, going 20 and 9 without any decent scoring help.

what we dont know.. how Bynum will play as THE scoring option.

and based off of last year, imo, dwill was the better player.

29$JerZ
09-22-2012, 12:58 PM
this klove is balling and his teammates stink that excuse is overused and stupid

How so?

Kevin is statistically a Top 10 player and has far exceeded what many were expecting him to be in this league? He was drafted by a rebuilding team who had a GM stockpiling Point Guards instead of putting actual talent around him.
His teammates have stunk for the most part. It's a team game so you can't fault K-Love for not getting to the playoffs yet with such a terrible cast. However from a grading standpoint of Top players in the NBA you can see how his production despite such circumstances gives him his status.

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-22-2012, 12:58 PM
Did Kevin Love shoot horrendously last season? Did Kevin Love play the worst defense of his career? Does Kevin Love play in the Eastern Conference? He breaks the mold of the whole being inefficient with poor teammates. He's still extremely efficient elite in the clutch still managed to be a top 5 scorer in the league.

thanks for re-iterating my point.

seikou8
09-22-2012, 01:02 PM
nice.
I watched the important games, and based off of what i saw, i felt dwill was a much better player than you are giving him credit for.

and the stats prove it.

lol
and yes i do agree about not judging a player's FULL ability, when you havent seen all of the games. Making strong cases like he is a defensive liability and what not.

what we know.. is that dwill played pretty good with that awful new jersey team, going 20 and 9 without any decent scoring help.

what we dont know.. how Bynum will play as THE scoring option.

and based off of last year, imo, dwill was the better player.

how so stats dont prove that based of last season bynum had his best year on both ends of the court and dwill had one of his worst years.

seikou8
09-22-2012, 01:05 PM
How so?

Kevin is statistically a Top 10 player and has far exceeded what many were expecting him to be in this league? He was drafted by a rebuilding team who had a GM stockpiling Point Guards instead of putting actual talent around him.
His teammates have stunk for the most part. It's a team game so you can't fault K-Love for not getting to the playoffs yet with such a terrible cast. However from a grading standpoint of Top players in the NBA you can see how his production despite such circumstances gives him his status.

true your right but this season i think he has to make the playoffs or else people will think he is guy who fills up the stat sheet and never can win.

Swashcuff
09-22-2012, 01:05 PM
thanks for re-iterating my point.

Actually I didn't. I proved to you what separate Love from Williams.

b@llhog24
09-22-2012, 01:07 PM
ok i wont even discuss dwill's less important games, lets see how he matched up against the elite pg's in the league, shall we?

Thunder vs Nets- Westbrook- 9/21- 21 points.
Spurs vs nets- Parker- 4/11- 12 points.
Celtics vs Nets- Rondo- 2/8- 4 points. (granted rondo isnt a scoring pg)
Celtics vs nets- Rondo- 7/16- 14 points.
Celtics vs Nets- Rondo- 4/8- 8 points.
Bulls vs Nets- Rose- 2/3- 4 points. (played only 11 mins)
Bulls vs Nets- Rose- 9/16- 22 points.
Clippers vs Nets- CP3- 7/11- 22 points.

again, noone is saying he is an elite defender, because hes not top 3 in defensive point guards at all..

But.. he isnt that bad of a defender as youre making him, and thats fine because Dwill always gets overlooked.

thanks.

Problem is he doesn't always play against these guys. Shoots Lin lighted him up. Is it better to have scrubs going off on you compared to elite players?


Btw the nets team offense and defense.

Type Pts Poss pPts FG% eFG% FTA FT oReb dReb T/O
Offense 93.1 90 103 0.425 0.473 21.7 78% 30 % 68 % 16 %
Defense 99.1 90 110 0.472 0.513 22.6 74% 31 % 69 % 15 %

(per 100 possessions)

Point? :confused:


but that is why klove is better than dwill...

What about Kyrie Irving?

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-22-2012, 01:08 PM
how so stats dont prove that based of last season bynum had his best year on both ends of the court and dwill had one of his worst years.

now i know dwill shot horrendous last year, 40%, and became a volume shooter..
and it isnt fair to judge someone who is the sole offensive threat on a team compared to someone who is the second, maybe third option on offense.. i do know that bynum had one of his better career numbers..

i also know that bynums PER was better than dwills. (23 to 21). im just going by his attributes.. bynum beats dwill on almost every category, heck even the rookie kyrie irving, who is the only option in Cleveland, managed to put up better stats than dwill as well, im strictly going by his reputation, and attributes. time will tell this season now that he has joe johnson...

Hawkeye15
09-22-2012, 01:08 PM
true your right but this season i think he has to make the playoffs or else people will think he is guy who fills up the stat sheet and never can win.

as a Wolves fan and huge Love supporter, even I have said that now that his roster support is upgraded. A starting lineup of Rubio-Roy-Kirilenko-Love-Pekovic, with Ridnour, Budinger, Cunningham, Barea, Williams, and Stiemsma should be a playoff team unless injuries machine gun the roster.

29$JerZ
09-22-2012, 01:08 PM
true your right but this season i think he has to make the playoffs or else people will think he is guy who fills up the stat sheet and never can win.

People already think K-Love is a Stat stuffer that doesn't translate to wins.
He won't remove that stigma about him until the makes the playoffs but as a Top 10 player in the NBA he certainly is one already. He clearly is the best PF.
You have guys like Melo being claimed top 10 players by his fans but has only advanced out of the 1st round 1 time. So that somehow is much more credible to Melo's top 10 ranking than K-Love who never made the playoffs?

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-22-2012, 01:10 PM
Problem is he doesn't always play against these guys. Shoots Lin lighted him up. Is it better to have scrubs going off on you compared to elite players?



Point? :confused:



What about Kyrie Irving?

i agree with u. i am not saying he is an elite defender, i just think maybe it was a motivational thing, along with the situation he was in, and the lockout, i know poor excuse..

but i voted this based off of his attributes..

we shall see this season tho!

DanG
09-22-2012, 02:05 PM
Bynum here.

LAKERMANIA
09-22-2012, 02:33 PM
Wow this is a close one.. Bynum was up big.. What happened?

Hawkeye15
09-22-2012, 03:06 PM
I can't believe the dude ranked 90th in win shares last season is about to go #12.

Chacarron
09-22-2012, 03:08 PM
Great, now Rondo will also be voted in before Bynum. :sigh:

Corey
09-22-2012, 03:14 PM
Rondo>Bynum
Nope. Not even close.

No chance Williams is better than Bynum this past season. Williams played some of the worst D I've seen from a top tier PG since Steve Nash and even Nash has been better defensively than Williams this past season despite Williams being younger, bigger, stronger, quicker etc.
Completely agree, my friend.

In what world was Deron Williams better than Bynum last season?
He wasn't.

Did I read Rondo>Bynum :eyebrow:
You know how I know we're in the NBA forum?



Deron shot 41% from the field, 33% from 3, played terrible defense, played in less games, turned the ball over a TON, posted the worst eFG and TS%'s of his career...It's so funny how people completely dismiss the past year and a half.

Deron has been mediocre since going to the Nets. People really have their heads stuck in the dirt.

Corey
09-22-2012, 03:39 PM
thanks for re-iterating my point.

Actually I didn't. I proved to you what separate Love from Williams.
Kyrie Irving completely eliminates the "poor supporting cast" attempted argument as well.

LAKERMANIA
09-22-2012, 04:09 PM
:facepalm: Williams > Bynum :laugh:

jericho
09-22-2012, 04:35 PM
People already think K-Love is a Stat stuffer that doesn't translate to wins.
He won't remove that stigma about him until the makes the playoffs but as a Top 10 player in the NBA he certainly is one already. He clearly is the best PF.
You have guys like Melo being claimed top 10 players by his fans but has only advanced out of the 1st round 1 time. So that somehow is much more credible to Melo's top 10 ranking than K-Love who never made the playoffs?

this is based as of rite now we dont have to bring previous accomplishments and a lot of great players havent made the playoffs b4 and were still considered top 10 just cuz klove was not in the playoffs last yr doesnt make him better than other players it just means he didnt have the supporting cast the other teams had