PDA

View Full Version : 5th Annual PSD Player Rankings #11 Player In The NBA? (Volume: V)



Mile High Champ
09-20-2012, 02:12 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last four years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. The season is now over and the Heat have been crowned NBA champs which means its time to kick off the off-season player rankings.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron was labelled by some as Choke Artist in the clutch and now this year had one of the greatest finals performances in recent memory. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for two days and than we can carry on to the next best player in the league. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 4 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best

Rules of adding players to the Voting Process

In terms of adding players to the poll, it will be done like this.

As soon as Deron Williams goes off the board, I will add other PG's.
As soon as Manu Ginobili goes off the board, I will add other SG's
As soon as LaMarcus Aldridge goes off the board, I will add other PF's.

And so on and so on..

This is to ensure that players that won their respective positions get a higher place in the list.

Current Player Comparison:


_____________ Player Season ____ Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Carmelo Anthony 2011-12 27 55 1876 21.1 .525 .463 5.4 15.9 10.6 21.0 1.7 1.0 10.8 31.8 106 102 3.7 2.6 6.2 .160
2 Andrew Bynum 2011-12 24 60 2112 22.9 .594 .558 10.6 26.1 18.7 7.4 0.7 4.0 13.9 23.8 112 100 4.8 3.3 8.0 .183
3 Manu Ginobili 2011-12 34 34 792 24.1 .668 .618 2.7 13.9 8.4 30.3 1.6 1.1 16.3 22.7 125 104 3.4 0.9 4.2 .257
4 LaMarcus Aldridge 2011-12 26 55 1994 22.7 .560 .513 8.6 17.5 12.9 13.2 1.3 1.7 9.5 27.0 113 106 5.4 1.6 7.0 .169
5 Russell Westbrook 2011-12 23 66 2331 22.9 .538 .481 5.0 9.4 7.4 29.8 2.5 0.7 14.2 32.7 108 105 5.5 2.4 7.9 .163
2012 NBA Off-Season Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Dwight Howard
4) Chris Paul
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Dwyane Wade
7) Kevin Love
8) Derrick Rose
9) Dirk Nowitzki
10) Russell Westbrook
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)


2011 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Kevin Durant
8) Derrick Rose
9) Deron Williams
10) Carmelo Anthony

2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy[/CODE]

2012 NBA Off-Season Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Dwight Howard
4) Chris Paul
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Dwyane Wade
7) Kevin Love
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)


2011 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Kevin Durant
8) Derrick Rose
9) Deron Williams
10) Carmelo Anthony

2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-20-2012, 02:14 PM
Melo Time!

justinnum1
09-20-2012, 02:17 PM
Melo Time!

Not yet. Dwill here

Da Knicks
09-20-2012, 02:22 PM
lol i hope Melo doesnt crack the 15, just hilarious...

MintBerryCrunch
09-20-2012, 02:28 PM
Is there an option for Chris Smoove?

Gators123
09-20-2012, 02:40 PM
Not Melo.

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-20-2012, 02:49 PM
melo obviously.

SaimuKala
09-20-2012, 02:54 PM
Is there an option for Chris Smoove?

That would be a Smoove move

Chronz
09-20-2012, 02:56 PM
Tough call, Ill wait to see which 2 are in heavy comp

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 03:00 PM
Not yet. Dwill here

They both sucked. Give it to Manu.

Jesse2272
09-20-2012, 03:02 PM
Bynum then Melo

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 03:03 PM
None of you had a problem voting in Derrick Rose yet Manu will be disrespected by PSD. (again)

He's still Manu and he's the best player available right now.

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 03:04 PM
BTW i do like this voting system it just sucks that somehow Bryant beat Wade for the #1 SG spot. How did we let that happen.

DR_1
09-20-2012, 03:08 PM
Westy a top 10 player :laugh2:

I like him, but he still has to demonstrate he's stopped shot jacking before I out hik this high.

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 03:17 PM
BTW i do like this voting system it just sucks that somehow Bryant beat Wade for the #1 SG spot. How did we let that happen.

because kobe is the better overall player, how did we let dirk so high?

Swashcuff
09-20-2012, 03:18 PM
None of you had a problem voting in Derrick Rose yet Manu will be disrespected by PSD. (again)

He's still Manu and he's the best player available right now.

Did Derrick Rose play 24 minutes a game?

xxplayerxx23
09-20-2012, 03:18 PM
Um westys scoring ability is just as good as your boy Droses. Westy should of been 9-10 range. Kash manu is up there in age and just came of an all year on an off injury year. Im sorry but I would take Bynum,Melo,Dwill, (In no order could be flipped either way) Over Manu.

xxplayerxx23
09-20-2012, 03:19 PM
because kobe is the better overall player, how did we let dirk so high?

:laugh2: Kobe better overall then wade thats funny. Dirk in the 9-10 range is solid.

MintBerryCrunch
09-20-2012, 03:20 PM
BTW i do like this voting system it just sucks that somehow Bryant beat Wade for the #1 SG spot. How did we let that happen.

Kobe > wade

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 03:21 PM
:laugh2: Kobe better overall then wade thats funny. Dirk in the 9-10 range is solid.

well your in the minority for thinking the contrary..that all im gunna say, unless you wanna have a sig bet for this upcoming year?

xxplayerxx23
09-20-2012, 03:22 PM
well your in the minority for thinking the contrary..that all im gunna say, unless you wanna have a sig bet for this upcoming year?

Sig bet what exactly? Who has the better year? Ill take that bet any day. Wade will outperform Kobe in just about eveything.

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 03:23 PM
Sig bet what exactly? Who has the better year? Ill take that bet any day. Wade will outperform Kobe in just about eveything.

Yeah but instead of wearing a sig, the loser never posts in psd again.

xxplayerxx23
09-20-2012, 03:26 PM
:laugh2: What kind of Bull **** is that?? Like your going to follow up please. Ill do lose doesn't post for two weeks not ever. Wade>Kobe its not even close anymore sorry.

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 03:28 PM
:laugh2: What kind of Bull **** is that?? Like your going to follow up please. Ill do lose doesn't post for two weeks not ever. Wade>Kobe its not even close anymore sorry.

I am going to follow up, it will be in my sig all year.. cmon man im trying to cleanse this forum of idiots, take my bet if your so confident.

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 03:30 PM
Did Derrick Rose play 24 minutes a game?

Derrick Rose played 1400 minutes to Manu's 800 and accumulated roughly the same amount of OWS.

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 03:31 PM
BTW i do like this voting system it just sucks that somehow Bryant beat Wade for the #1 SG spot. How did we let that happen.

wanna bet? lol

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 03:33 PM
wanna bet? lol

Bet what?

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 03:33 PM
Bet what?

read my sig

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 03:35 PM
read my sig

I'm not a Heat fan and Wade has been better than Kobe for years.

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 03:37 PM
I'm not a Heat fan and Wade has been better than Kobe for years.

you dont have to do the heat bet. Do the wade bet then please if your so confident.

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 03:40 PM
you dont have to do the heat bet. Do the wade bet then please if your so confident.

Not interested.

Swashcuff
09-20-2012, 03:47 PM
Derrick Rose played 1400 minutes to Manu's 800 and accumulated roughly the same amount of OWS.

You didn't answer my question nor did you get the point. Accumulating WS% is one thing but actually being on the floor and playing is another. Manu played most of his minutes against reserves on a team with one of the best benches in the NBA. The guy wasn't wasn't even on the floor long enough to lead his team from the outset to the last play. He wasn't his team's most valuable player on the year nor was he as instrumental in their success as Rose was to his.

I think he's a great player but coming off the bench playing 24 minutes a game is way different from the way Derrick Rose put his team on his back night in night out and led them from the front.

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 03:49 PM
yeah rose is far better than manu lol

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 03:55 PM
You didn't answer my question nor did you get the point. Accumulating WS% is one thing but actually being on the floor and playing is another. Manu played most of his minutes against reserves on a team with one of the best benches in the NBA. The guy wasn't wasn't even on the floor long enough to lead his team from the outset to the last play. He wasn't his team's most valuable player on the year nor was he as instrumental in their success as Rose was to his.

I think he's a great player but coming off the bench playing 24 minutes a game is way different from the way Derrick Rose put his team on his back night in night out and led them from the front.

I think i have the point. I respectfully disagree.

Not that MPG is the real issue here since Manu has always been snubbed.

Corey
09-20-2012, 04:05 PM
Andrew Bynum, then Deron Williams.

Both are better than Melo.

Cant vote for Manu this high regardless of his on court production because of his inability to stay healthy.

mrblisterdundee
09-20-2012, 04:08 PM
Deron Williams is as close as you get Chris Paul, offensively. Defensively is one place where Paul separates himself.
Andrew Bynum is seeming dominant right now, but we haven't seen yet how he'll play with the new team and whether he'll go out with another injury. Williams, meanwhile, has been consistently good with his performance, and we know what to expect from him.

koreancabbage
09-20-2012, 04:08 PM
i'm liking Bynum right here. advanced stats tell me he's the better player (if i'm reading the right numbers- at work at the client site lol)

mrblisterdundee
09-20-2012, 04:14 PM
Andrew Bynum, then Deron Williams.

Both are better than Melo.

Cant vote for Manu this high regardless of his on court production because of his inability to stay healthy.

If it's about health, how can you put Andrew Bynum above Deron Williams? Bynum averages 56 games a season, and Williams averages 71. That's a lot more wins. And Bynum has proven himself continually injury prone.

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 04:32 PM
Andrew Bynum, then Deron Williams.

Both are better than Melo.

Just for arguments sake, could you show me how Williams was better than 'Melo last year? I don't see it. They were both horrendous. Was 'Melo slightly better? Probably. But i'd be hesitant to vote either of them in the top 15 if we're going off last season.

Cant vote for Manu this high regardless of his on court production because of his inability to stay healthy.

Does it make no difference that Manu will start the season while Derrick Rose will not? I feel like this argument is a slippery slope and somehow conveniently works against Manu.

In 2009-10 and 2010-11 Manu played 75 and 80 games respectively. In a condensed, lock-out shortened, aberrational season - he was banged up (like a lot of others) and had his minutes strategically limited by the best coach in the NBA. I don't think any of this should effect his elite status. (Not that PSD ever gave him that status to begin with)The man is 10th alltime in WS/48. You don't just hit your head and find yourself in that kind of company.

i guess it really is the whole sixth man thing, but people need to understand who he plays for. In most other situations he would be starting and averaging more minutes. Despite playing less minutes than other all-stars, he still produces at a ridiculously high clip. I guess you could say Manu is the epitome of an efficient player.

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 04:34 PM
If it's about health, how can you put Andrew Bynum above Deron Williams? Bynum averages 56 games a season, and Williams averages 71. That's a lot more wins. And Bynum has proven himself continually injury prone.

Good point.

BklynKnicks3
09-20-2012, 04:39 PM
any1 who voted for bynum needs to be slapped until u bleed iam not even voteing for melo anymore

Swashcuff
09-20-2012, 04:41 PM
Just for arguments sake, could you show me how Williams was better than 'Melo last year? I don't see it. They were both horrendous. Was 'Melo slightly better? Probably. But i'd be hesitant to vote either of them in the top 15 if we're going off last season.

Does it make no difference that Manu will start the season while Derrick Rose will not? I feel like this argument is a slippery slope and somehow conveniently works against Manu.

In 2009-10 and 2010-11 Manu played 75 and 80 games respectively. In a condensed, lock-out shortened, aberrational season - he was banged up (like a lot of others) and had his minutes strategically limited by the best coach in the NBA. I don't think any of this should effect his elite status. (Not that PSD ever gave him that status to begin with)The man is 10th alltime in WS/48. You don't just hit your head and find yourself in that kind of company.

i guess it really is the whole sixth man thing, but people need to understand who he plays for. In most other situations he would be starting and averaging more minutes. Despite playing less minutes than other all-stars, he still produces at a ridiculously high clip. I guess you could say Manu is the epitome of an efficient player.

This right here is why you take Manu's advanced #s with a grain of salt. It was a lock out shortened season in which Manu played less than half his teams games. He didn't continue this type of play for the entirety of the season nor did he do it while logging lots of minutes per game.

I'm not saying you're wrong for quoting his stats or anything I'm just saying that I would buy them a bit more had it been a larger sample size (though Manu usually puts up gaudy #s). I mean Harden started off the season on one of the most amazing advanced statistical tears we've ever seen from a SG in some aspects and as expected he evened out when it progressed.

Honestly Manu is a the type of player when I'm making a case for him I really don't like using stats because IMO there are so many different variables to be taken into consideration as he usually doesn't log as much playing time as those he's being compared to. I usually rate his overall game in terms of shooting, playmaking, defense, clutch hell damn near everything you'd want out of a your SG but if I'm talking about him doing one of those things at a high level I really can't compare him to Rose. Please note that I am not saying my view is right and you are wrong I am just trying to explain my POV so you can get where I am coming from.

How do you think Manu would have done playing on the Bulls as a starter? Do you think they would have been better than they were with Rose? I know you have it in you to be objective to please just do so. Remember he'd now be the #1 player (not 2A or 2B) and the vast majority of focus would be on him so he'd no longer to feed off of his HOF teammates.

Do you think scoring less than 14 points in less than 30 minutes on the perimeter is going to help his team to a W% of .821 (the Bulls W% with Rose on board) or better?

Corey
09-20-2012, 05:15 PM
any1 who voted for bynum needs to be slapped until u bleed iam not even voteing for melo anymore

Look at all of that analysis and critical thinking that you included in your post :rolleyes:

Kashmir13579
09-20-2012, 05:17 PM
This right here is why you take Manu's advanced #s with a grain of salt. It was a lock out shortened season in which Manu played less than half his teams games. He didn't continue this type of play for the entirety of the season nor did he do it while logging lots of minutes per game. I mentioned Rose because i feel, regardless of minutes played, its contradictory to penalize Manu for missing roughly the same amount of games. Manu has always played about 4-5 minutes less than other all-stars as it is, no surprise to me that Pop limited his minutes even more heavily this year. Its more or less the reason he'll be playing next year and Derrick Rose will not be. Correct me if i'm wrong but the Bulls didn't fall off the face of the planet when Rose was out of the line-up? Similar to the Spurs, Thibbs seems to have his own well-oiled machine over there in Chicago.


I'm not saying you're wrong for quoting his stats or anything I'm just saying that I would buy them a bit more had it been a larger sample size (though Manu usually puts up gaudy #s). I mean Harden started off the season on one of the most amazing advanced statistical tears we've ever seen from a SG in some aspects and as expected he evened out when it progressed. So what is the hold-up? What does Manu have left to sell you on? The fact that you bring up Harden is all the more reason why we need to get Manu off the bored NOW, Swash. lol. Harden is top 15.


Honestly Manu is a the type of player when I'm making a case for him I really don't like using stats because IMO there are so many different variables to be taken into consideration as he usually doesn't log as much playing time as those he's being compared to. I usually rate his overall game in terms of shooting, playmaking, defense, clutch hell damn near everything you'd want out of a your SG
I agree. But whether we're talking about this year or previous years, the numbers aren't hurting his case.

but if I'm talking about him doing one of those things at a high level I really can't compare him to Rose. Please note that I am not saying my view is right and you are wrong I am just trying to explain my POV so you can get where I am coming from.
Again, not arguing Manu > Rose. Just pointing out that Rose also missed a huge chunk, will be out for a long time still, and we have him at #8. Thats literally the only reason i bring up Rose.


How do you think Manu would have done playing on the Bulls as a starter? Do you think they would have been better than they were with Rose? I know you have it in you to be objective to please just do so. Remember he'd now be the #1 player (not 2A or 2B) and the vast majority of focus would be on him so he'd no longer to feed off of his HOF teammates.
I honestly can't answer that question with any confidence. I've never seen Manu as a #1 option and i don't like the idea of it. I will say i fundamentally believe a #2 player can have a bigger impact on a teams success than a #1.

EDIT: Gimme a healthy Manu over Rose all-day, imo.

xxplayerxx23
09-20-2012, 05:18 PM
wanna bet? lol

Lol I quoted the wrong message but if your so confident and want to get rid of me take my bet smh.

Gators123
09-20-2012, 05:18 PM
any1 who voted for bynum needs to be slapped until u bleed iam not even voteing for melo anymore

Public poll FTW!

Corey
09-20-2012, 05:19 PM
If it's about health, how can you put Andrew Bynum above Deron Williams? Bynum averages 56 games a season, and Williams averages 71. That's a lot more wins. And Bynum has proven himself continually injury prone.

If we were using career averages in this poll, the rankings would be completely different...So why bring career games per season into account?

Also, Bynum started 60 games last year in comparison to Williams' 55, so I dont see what point you're trying to raise.

MintBerryCrunch
09-20-2012, 06:14 PM
If we were using career averages in this poll, the rankings would be completely different...So why bring career games per season into account?

Also, Bynum started 60 games last year in comparison to Williams' 55, so I dont see what point you're trying to raise.

This...
The poll is based on who is better right now .

MackSnackWrap
09-20-2012, 06:31 PM
D Will

DR_1
09-20-2012, 07:00 PM
:laugh2: What kind of Bull **** is that?? Like your going to follow up please. Ill do lose doesn't post for two weeks not ever. Wade>Kobe its not even close anymore sorry.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:









I feel like causing some trouble right now ;)

jericho
09-20-2012, 07:15 PM
bynum is way overrated here wtf lol

mrblisterdundee
09-20-2012, 07:15 PM
If we were using career averages in this poll, the rankings would be completely different...So why bring career games per season into account?

Of course you bring the entire career up when talking about health, and health is a big part of how you rank a player. You can be Tracy McGrady or Yao Ming, and you'll still suck if you don't play games. If Bynum's been consistently less healthy than Williams until now, it stands to reason that it will continue, especially since many big men are more prone to injuries.
And if they're close in terms of their value to a team, which they are, then health can become a deciding factor.

Also, Bynum started 60 games last year in comparison to Williams' 55, so I dont see what point you're trying to raise.
And why are you quibbling over a five-game difference in absences last year when Bynum averages 15 fewer games played per season than Williams over his entire career?

jericho
09-20-2012, 07:18 PM
This...
The poll is based on who is better right now .

thats something people tend to forget over here :no:

jericho
09-20-2012, 07:21 PM
Of course you bring the entire career up when talking about health, and health is a big part of how you rank a player. You can be Tracy McGrady or Yao Ming, and you'll still suck if you don't play games. If Bynum's been consistently less healthy than Williams until now, it stands to reason that it will continue, especially since many big men are more prone to injuries.
And if they're close in terms of their value to a team, which they are, then health can become a deciding factor.

And why are you quibbling over a five-game difference in absences last year when Bynum averages 15 fewer games played per season than Williams over his entire career?

i know he aint injury prone but that didnt stop everybody else from voting for drose :confused:

Baller1
09-20-2012, 07:57 PM
Westy a top 10 player :laugh2:

I like him, but he still has to demonstrate he's stopped shot jacking before I out hik this high.

Sure thing. Maybe you should watch him play more often.

Baller1
09-20-2012, 07:57 PM
Williams should've won this poll.

justinnum1
09-20-2012, 08:00 PM
D will for me here.

Corey
09-20-2012, 08:08 PM
If we were using career averages in this poll, the rankings would be completely different...So why bring career games per season into account?

Of course you bring the entire career up when talking about health, and health is a big part of how you rank a player. You can be Tracy McGrady or Yao Ming, and you'll still suck if you don't play games. If Bynum's been consistently less healthy than Williams until now, it stands to reason that it will continue, especially since many big men are more prone to injuries.
And if they're close in terms of their value to a team, which they are, then health can become a deciding factor.

Also, Bynum started 60 games last year in comparison to Williams' 55, so I dont see what point you're trying to raise.
And why are you quibbling over a five-game difference in absences last year when Bynum averages 15 fewer games played per season than Williams over his entire career?Quibbling? You're the one that brought up game played averages as if it was a deterrent in voting for Bynum over D Will...Then dismissed the fact that Bynum played more than Williams this past year.

Hello contradiction.

Andrew32
09-20-2012, 08:12 PM
Voted for the Kobe of C's Andrew Bynum.

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 08:19 PM
Voted for the Kobe of C's Andrew Bynum.

hes more of the wade of centers, second best at his position.

NBA-GMaster
09-20-2012, 08:20 PM
Poor melo!!

Mishmin
09-20-2012, 08:21 PM
Lets get Rondo up here.

JNoel
09-20-2012, 08:24 PM
Melo won't crack the top 15 :laugh2:

JOhnnyTHaJet
09-20-2012, 08:30 PM
The amount of homerism in these polls....

Cal827
09-20-2012, 08:32 PM
Deron
Bynum
LA
Ginobili
Rondo
Bosh
A Pimp Named Slickback
James Dolan
Ray Lewis


Carmelo Anthony

bucketss
09-20-2012, 08:36 PM
andrew bynum? idk if i agree but than again i havent watched him much. i picked melo here almost putting deron over him

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 08:40 PM
andrew bynum? idk if i agree but than again i havent watched him much. i picked melo here almost putting deron over him

So, this means you didnt watch the lakers much, which means all the crap you talk about kobe is based off nothing lol!

bucketss
09-20-2012, 08:49 PM
So, this means you didnt watch the lakers much, which means all the crap you talk about kobe is based off nothing lol!

the last time i mentioned kobe was two days ago and that was to defend him when some people were misunderstanding his video in the summer drew league where he named three players and some people thought he was declaring himself the goat.

maybe you think me defending lebron and wade is anti-kobe?

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 08:51 PM
the last time i mentioned kobe was two days ago and that was to defend him when some people were misunderstanding his video in the summer drew league where he named three players and some people thought he was declaring himself the goat.

maybe you think me defending lebron and wade is anti-kobe?

If so my bad, most of the wade homers hate kobe..
justinmum1, naps, andrew32,b@llhog24, xxplayerxx23, etc. sorry to clump you in with these trolls.

b@llhog24
09-20-2012, 08:55 PM
If so my bad, most of the wade homers hate kobe..
justinmum1, naps, andrew32,b@llhog24, xxplayerxx23, etc. sorry to clump you in with these trolls.

I made the team. :cool: :clap:

jerellh528
09-20-2012, 08:57 PM
I made the team. :cool: :clap: :cheers:

Chacarron
09-20-2012, 09:01 PM
Andreeeeeeeeew Bynum. Melo for 12.

unleashthebeast
09-20-2012, 09:04 PM
Should be Bynum or Dwill here, I am fine with either of them.

justinnum1
09-20-2012, 09:09 PM
Melo won't crack the top 15 :laugh2:

Possible.

jericho
09-20-2012, 09:31 PM
hes more of the wade of centers, second best at his position.

i couldnt care less for wade or kobe but that was a good come back lmao :D

Swashcuff
09-20-2012, 10:01 PM
The amount of homerism in these polls....

Please explain. Two 76ers fans have voted Bynum and in the earlier poll two Thunder fans voted Westbrook. The only player that has been receiving large amounts of homer votes are Kobe and Melo. MHC's system working just fine.

Avenged
09-20-2012, 11:17 PM
My boy Bynum! :D

xxplayerxx23
09-20-2012, 11:43 PM
I got called a wade homer :laugh:

mrblisterdundee
09-21-2012, 01:01 AM
Quibbling? You're the one that brought up game played averages as if it was a deterrent in voting for Bynum over D Will...Then dismissed the fact that Bynum played more than Williams this past year.

Hello contradiction.
There's no contradiction. I'm saying the five-game difference last year isn't important; the fact that Bynum has averaged 15 fewer games played per season over his entire career is. Williams and Bynum both played really well last season, but Williams is more likely to play in the first place. Therefore he's ahead of Bynum, in my opinion.

NYKnicks4511
09-21-2012, 01:18 AM
Heh, the PSD vendetta against Melo continues. Bynum ain't no joke, but give him a year at least to prove himself as a number one option before we proclaim him to be better than one of the perennial top scorers in the league.

GREATNESS ONE
09-21-2012, 01:33 AM
Bynum/Melo take your pick here are their spots.

I was taking Bynum but it went with Melo but for me the next two off the list are these two.

bholly
09-21-2012, 02:08 AM
Heh, the PSD vendetta against Melo continues. Bynum ain't no joke, but give him a year at least to prove himself as a number one option before we proclaim him to be better than one of the perennial top scorers in the league.

This isn't a top scorers ranking, it's a best player ranking. It also isn't a lifetime achievement ranking or potential ranking - it's the best players right now.

DWill scored just as efficiently as Melo this year by every metric, and LMA much more so, and they both put up a very similar ppg to Melo. Those guys also bring much more to the table, whereas Melo scores and does not much else.
Could you make an argument for why you put Melo above either of those guys? If it's homerism or star power/hype then that's fine, I just want to know that (I've homer voted Bynum myself a few times). If you're actually basing it on something relevant, enlighten me.

Hawkeye15
09-21-2012, 03:36 AM
I have Bynum here, taking Melo next I think.

NYYCowboys
09-21-2012, 04:23 AM
Love how a guy whos played over 65 games in a season, just once in his entire career, is a better player than Melo.

More-Than-Most
09-21-2012, 04:32 AM
Bynum here

Melo or Dwill next...Toss up

More-Than-Most
09-21-2012, 04:33 AM
lol so basically the Jersey fans are voting for Dwill and the Knick fans are voting for Melo and everyone else is voting for bynum.... If Bynum wins this the next race between Melo/Dwill will be hilarious

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 05:58 AM
Bynum/Melo

Photo finish

Corey
09-21-2012, 09:03 AM
Quibbling? You're the one that brought up game played averages as if it was a deterrent in voting for Bynum over D Will...Then dismissed the fact that Bynum played more than Williams this past year.

Hello contradiction.
There's no contradiction. I'm saying the five-game difference last year isn't important; the fact that Bynum has averaged 15 fewer games played per season over his entire career is. Williams and Bynum both played really well last season, but Williams is more likely to play in the first place. Therefore he's ahead of Bynum, in my opinion.You're bringing in career averages into your argument for how good a player is right now..how do you not see the flaw in that?

And I'd love to hear how Deron played "really well" last season. He shot career lows from the field and from 3. He played the worst defense of his career. He turned the ball over a ton.

There's no possible way he was better than Bynum last year.

And yes, you ARE contradicting yourself. You act like career games played averages should factor into this, then completely ignore the fact that Bynum played more than Deron last year. Get out of here with that.

BklynKnicks3
09-21-2012, 09:44 AM
bynum top 11 = lol westbrook and love top10= lol

Corey
09-21-2012, 09:49 AM
bynum top 11 = lol westbrook and love top10= lolFeel free to backup your opinion with reasonig.

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 09:50 AM
I have BYnum here Melo was next

I discounted Roses time on the court (understand the argument either way)

Based on my votes I would have had Melo 10 not mad either way

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-21-2012, 09:53 AM
oooo a tight race between melo and bynum.. i likey..

SteBO
09-21-2012, 09:55 AM
Melo sure made a spirited comeback here........

theheatles
09-21-2012, 10:11 AM
I voted for Melo here but i just clicked on 4 names i didnt recognize who voted for Melo and 2 ppl who voted for melo had 0 posts each

thenaj17
09-21-2012, 10:18 AM
I don't know what planet some people are living on to be voting Andrew Bynum ahead of D-Wills or Melo or even Ginobili. People will see this year how overrated Bynum has become. Too inconsistent by far.

D-Wills seems to have gone off people's radars due to playing for a poor Nets team. I can guarantee he will be back in the discussion for top point guard this time next year.

beasted86
09-21-2012, 11:16 AM
None of you had a problem voting in Derrick Rose yet Manu will be disrespected by PSD. (again)

He's still Manu and he's the best player available right now.


They both sucked. Give it to Manu.

Can't tell if you are serious.... :confused:

It's a joke that Manu was even voted 3rd best SG and will be a greater joke if he finishes top 15.
There comes a point where PER doesn't mean crap. I don't care about "imagine if he played starter minutes". This guy was just average in the playoffs playing near starter minutes.

BklynKnicks3
09-21-2012, 11:23 AM
what a joke melo at 11. When he avg 26/7/4 and is in top 3 for mvp i will be lookin for people

Corey
09-21-2012, 11:29 AM
I don't know what planet some people are living on to be voting Andrew Bynum ahead of D-Wills or Melo or even Ginobili. People will see this year how overrated Bynum has become. Too inconsistent by far.

D-Wills seems to have gone off people's radars due to playing for a poor Nets team. I can guarantee he will be back in the discussion for top point guard this time next year.
Deron isn't off anyone's radar. He had an inferior season to Bynum.

Comparatively, Kyrie Irving was on an awful Cleveland team, and he had no issue being a much more efficient player than deron last year by a wide margin.

The 'he was on a bad team' argument is weak.

BklynKnicks3
09-21-2012, 11:29 AM
Feel free to backup your opinion with reasonig.

Bynum a guy who had liek 2 healthy seasons and has been a 3rd option his whoel career and 2nd option last year should not even be in the convo/ Westbrook is a gunner at pg who is out of control and still cant run a team he is a great talent but he on durant team. I have to penalzie guys who are not even the best on their own team sorry that goes for the disgusting flopper wade to. Who used to be top 3 until he sold his soul to the devil

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-21-2012, 11:44 AM
lol some of the reasoning people give is based off of their bias opinion.

facts are facts.

Melo is an offensive threat.
Melo's intangibles are greater than Dirks.
melo is quicker than dirk.
Dirk is 7 feet tall, therefore his rebounding 'praise' is irrelevant.
Melo is an average defender, but he is a better defender than Dirk.

Sorry.

So on any top 10 list, melo should be ahead of dirk.

Back to this voting thing, based off of the choices available, Melo is the best option followed by deron, and bynum after.

I choose to go with facts rather than assumptions.
i understand people get annoyed by knicks fans shoving melo down everyone's throat, but that won't affect my opinion, and neither should it affect anyone else's.

so my voting order shall be... melo, dwill, than bynum.

Swashcuff
09-21-2012, 11:45 AM
Bynum a guy who had liek 2 healthy seasons and has been a 3rd option his whoel career and 2nd option last year should not even be in the convo/ Westbrook is a gunner at pg who is out of control and still cant run a team he is a great talent but he on durant team. I have to penalzie guys who are not even the best on their own team sorry that goes for the disgusting flopper wade to. Who used to be top 3 until he sold his soul to the devil

Melo is a former top 3 pick who couldn't even mesh with a 2nd year PG and according to guys like yourself is the best scorer in the game but for an entire month he shot under 40% and couldn't even average 18 ppg while playing horrendous D and showing poor leadership. It was suppose to be Melo's team but Tyson Chandler somehow outshined him proving to be the Knicks MVP and the biggest reason for them even reaching the post season. Without Chandler's consistent play ALL season long Melo's last month burst would have been in vain because they would have been on the outside looking in.

Melo wasn't the most valuable on his own damn team. You have no point.

Only someone who doesn't know jack crap would penalize someone for being the 2nd best on their team. By that reason if Melo played with LeBron you wouldn't have Melo in your top 10 right. :rolleyes:

Iggz53
09-21-2012, 11:46 AM
I voted for Melo here but i just clicked on 4 names i didnt recognize who voted for Melo and 2 ppl who voted for melo had 0 posts each

:laugh: some people, I tell ya.

BklynKnicks3
09-21-2012, 11:51 AM
Melo is a former top 3 pick who couldn't even mesh with a 2nd year PG and according to guys like yourself is the best scorer in the game but for an entire month he shot under 40% and couldn't even average 18 ppg while playing horrendous D and showing poor leadership. It was suppose to be Melo's team but Tyson Chandler somehow outshined him proving to be the Knicks MVP and the biggest reason for them even reaching the post season. Without Chandler's consistent play ALL season long Melo's last month burst would have been in vain because they would have been on the outside looking in.

Melo wasn't the most valuable on his own damn team. You have no point.

Only someone who doesn't know jack crap would penalize someone for being the 2nd best on their team. By that reason if Melo played with LeBron you wouldn't have Melo in your top 10 right. :rolleyes:

If Melo played with Lebron he would avg 30 because lebron knows who the better scorer is and he liek to pass anyway. Who avg more on team usa when they played on the same team? Chandler was Valuble but not more then Melo. Melo carried the team on his back to start the year 6-4 then he played hurt and missed like 10 games n then the whole Lin bs happend. Then he came back strong like a monster. He started of the year for first 10 game as a top 3 player avging 29/7/4 then he played hur tput up garbage numbers that hurt his season overall when he should have just rested. Then the final month he was arguable the best player in the nba(player of the month) How many of those wade got last year oh yea that right 0!!!! player of the month is like 25% of a mvp award nothing to sneeze at

koreancabbage
09-21-2012, 11:53 AM
Bynum a guy who had liek 2 healthy seasons and has been a 3rd option his whoel career and 2nd option last year should not even be in the convo/ Westbrook is a gunner at pg who is out of control and still cant run a team he is a great talent but he on durant team. I have to penalzie guys who are not even the best on their own team sorry that goes for the disgusting flopper wade to. Who used to be top 3 until he sold his soul to the devil

and I have to penalize Melo for not being the most valuable player on his team. Chandler is without a question. Without Chandler, this Knicks team wouldn't have made the playoffs.

and I have to penalize Carmelo for the chucker that he is.

that was easy wasn't it?

Bring up some more valid arguments that cleary puts Melo over the top and not just bash other players for your perception of their "short comings" when Melo has a lot of his own.

b@llhog24
09-21-2012, 11:54 AM
lol some of the reasoning people give is based off of their bias opinion.

facts are facts.

Melo is an offensive threat.

So is everyone else on this list.


Melo's intangibles are greater than Dirks.

No it isn't.


melo is quicker than dirk.

Aaron Brooks better be in your top 5.


Dirk is 7 feet tall, therefore his rebounding 'praise' is irrelevant.

:laugh2:


Melo is an average defender, but he is a better defender than Dirk.

I don't see it.


Sorry.

So on any top 10 list, melo should be ahead of dirk.

If that happens then that list is tainted.


Back to this voting thing, based off of the choices available, Melo is the best option followed by deron, and bynum after.

He's better than Dwill for sure. Bynum? Meh.


I choose to go with facts rather than assumptions.
i understand people get annoyed by knicks fans shoving melo down everyone's throat, but that won't affect my opinion, and neither should it affect anyone else's.

so my voting order shall be... melo, dwill, than bynum.

What facts have you presented? :confused:

Swashcuff
09-21-2012, 11:59 AM
lol some of the reasoning people give is based off of their bias opinion.

facts are facts.

Your opinion is not fact and what you're saying here is your opinion.


Melo is an offensive threat.

And Dirk is a better offensive threat with less holes in his game.


Melo's intangibles are greater than Dirks.

Utter, complete and total GARBAGE. Melo couldn't conform to what his coached asked of him subsequently resulting in the firing of said coach. He isn't half the leader Dirk is. He is an EXCELLENT team defender (something Melo could never say) he's a proven winner with a combination of skills on the offensive that actually helps his team offensively. He isn't a ball stopper like Melo he can actually play in any system with any type of player around him, Melo couldn't even get it going with a first year starting PG, you'd expect a great intangible player such as Melo to at least be able to lead his team no matter who he plays with. I can go on and on as to the many many many many reasons why Dirk has a WAY greater intangible value than Melo.


melo is quicker than dirk.

Dirk is whiter than Melo. :rolleyes: No **** Melo's quicker he's younger, smaller and more athletic that's only basic logic. Allen Iverson was quicker than Shaq that didn't make him better.


Dirk is 7 feet tall, therefore his rebounding 'praise' is irrelevant.

Who is praising Dirk's rebounding. People stated that he is a better rebounder than Melo which is indeed a fact. Didn't you say you like facts? Like the fact that Melo is quicker so why are you downplaying a fact?


Melo is an average defender,

False. Melo is an average defender when he wants to be. He is a sub par defender who cashes in when he's not in the mood.


but he is a better defender than Dirk.

You must be a drunk crazy person if you think Melo is a better defender than Dirk Nowitzki. Dirk has the size and knows how to use it on D and unlike Melo he doesn't take games off on that end of the floor. Melo has the size, strength, quickness and overall athletic ability to be an elite defender in the league but because he plays D when he feels like he'll never be anything more than an mediocre to okay defensive player.


Sorry.

So on any top 10 list, melo should be ahead of dirk.

The only fact you stated here is that Melo is quicker than Dirk everything else is just your misinformed opinion.


Back to this voting thing, based off of the choices available, Melo is the best option followed by deron, and bynum after.

I choose to go with facts rather than assumptions.
i understand people get annoyed by knicks fans shoving melo down everyone's throat, but that won't affect my opinion, and neither should it affect anyone else's.

so my voting order shall be... melo, dwill, than bynum.

You stated one fact. As you said by contradicting yourself in your last sentence you voted base on OPINION not Fact.

koreancabbage
09-21-2012, 11:59 AM
If Melo played with Lebron he would avg 30 because lebron knows who the better scorer is and he liek to pass anyway. Who avg more on team usa when they played on the same team? Chandler was Valuble but not more then Melo. Melo carried the team on his back to start the year 6-4 then he played hurt and missed like 10 games n then the whole Lin bs happend. Then he came back strong like a monster. He started of the year for first 10 game as a top 3 player avging 29/7/4 then he played hur tput up garbage numbers that hurt his season overall when he should have just rested. Then the final month he was arguable the best player in the nba(player of the month) How many of those wade got last year oh yea that right 0!!!! player of the month is like 25% of a mvp award nothing to sneeze at


this means nothing at all. and your 25% is laughable. when you consider Melo didn't even finish with a vote for the entire season, didn't even make the ALL-NBA 1st or 2nd teams. Even though Carmelo won player of the month, Lebron won player of the weeks 2 times in April and KG with one week, yet Melo won it- an undeserverd win if thats the case.

Im_in_Mia_bish
09-21-2012, 12:03 PM
So is everyone else on this list.



No it isn't.



Aaron Brooks better be in your top 5.



:laugh2:



I don't see it.



If that happens then that list is tainted.



He's better than Dwill for sure. Bynum? Meh.



What facts have you presented? :confused:

one of the reasonings i got for dirk being better than melo was that he rebounds better? what in the world... he's a pf who is 7 feet tall, most other pfs are either 6 8- 6 10.. lol and if we are weighing in rebounding than why isnt bynum top 5?

there are more offensive threats playing sf- lebron, durant, granger, pierce, deng (with rose out), gay, beasley, etc than playing pf.. just saying that assumption that dirk is a better defender than melo without lookin at all variables, is kinda interesting.

i guess everyone's entitled to their own opinion, so regardless of what i say, u will still feel dirk rightfully went ahead of melo..

i just dont see it.

Melo is more clutch, and his intangibles are greatly superior.
Dirk is the better shooter.
they both can turn the light switch on at any moment and go on 4th quarter take overs.. well any star should be able to do that..

that's really all he has lol

in my humble opinion of course.

Swashcuff
09-21-2012, 12:09 PM
If Melo played with Lebron he would avg 30 because lebron knows who the better scorer is and he liek to pass anyway.

So basically you're saying that LeBron James is so great that he will make Carmelo a better player than he ever was? Remember Melo has NEVER once in a season averaged 30 or more while LeBron has done this twice. Now you're saying that because of how great LeBron is Melo will get better. That's huge praise for LeBron.


Who avg more on team usa when they played on the same team?

Melo wasn't even the 2nd best of Team USA I don't know what the hell you're talking about.


Chandler was Valuble but not more then Melo.

That's your opinion. The facts state otherwise. The Knicks biggest strength last season was their D. Something which Melo contributed very little to and was in large part due to Tyson Chandler.


Melo carried the team on his back to start the year 6-4 then he played hurt and missed like 10 games n then the whole Lin bs happend. Then he came back strong like a monster.

So Melo averaging the worst numbers of his career was thanks to the Lin BS? :laugh2: you're making your boy sound even worse.


He started of the year for first 10 game as a top 3 player avging 29/7/4 then he played hur tput up garbage numbers that hurt his season overall when he should have just rested. Then the final month he was arguable the best player in the nba(player of the month) How many of those wade got last year oh yea that right 0!!!! player of the month is like 25% of a mvp award nothing to sneeze at

You're completely WRONG. Melo did not start off the season averaging 29/7/4 that's how he finished the season. What the hell kinda Melo homer are you?

He won player of the month. Great. That was the third time in his career that he did so as compared to 6 times for Wade. Chris Paul, Durant and LeBron were all better than Melo in the last month of the season as well. He played the best ball of the season and that saved his ***.

Swashcuff
09-21-2012, 12:13 PM
one of the reasonings i got for dirk being better than melo was that he rebounds better? what in the world... he's a pf who is 7 feet tall, most other pfs are either 6 8- 6 10.. lol and if we are weighing in rebounding than why isnt bynum top 5?

You really lack reading comprehension don't you?


there are more offensive threats playing sf- lebron, durant, granger, pierce, deng (with rose out), gay, beasley, etc than playing pf.. just saying that assumption that dirk is a better defender than melo without lookin at all variables, is kinda interesting.

Absolute BS. The PF is the deepest position in the NBA. Every single night Dirk has to go up against players that are consistently better than those Melo has to on both ends of the floor.


Melo is more clutch, and his intangibles are greatly superior.

Explain what you think are intangibles.


Dirk is the better shooter.

You stated another fact. C'mon you're on a roll now that's two.


they both can turn the light switch on at any moment and go on 4th quarter take overs.. well any star should be able to do that..

that's really all he has lol

in my humble opinion of course.

Dirk is better than Melo in the 4th quarters. Melo is better in the final minute of close games.

Corey
09-21-2012, 12:16 PM
Bynum a guy who had liek 2 healthy seasons
Really? And how is that relevant to how good of a player he is right now? Last I checked, he played in 60 games last year.

Guess who he played more games than? Carmelo AND Deron.

and has been a 3rd option his whoel career and 2nd option last year should not even be in the convo
So I guess Wade shouldn't be in the discussion yet either since he was a second option to Lebron, right?

You're going to completely ignore Bynum even though he put up a much better season than Melo or Deron because he was on a top team? Okay then.

That's solid logic.

Westbrook is a gunner at pg who is out of control and still cant run a team he is a great talent but he on durant team.
How can you make the judgement that Westbrook cant run a team without KD? I dont think you have any evidence whatsoever to back that up.
I have to penalzie guys who are not even the best on their own team sorry that goes for the disgusting flopper wade to. Who used to be top 3 until he sold his soul to the devilWade sold his soul to the devil by resigning with the team that drafted him? Okie doke. :rolleyes:

EDUTEXANS
09-21-2012, 12:20 PM
Melo here, then Bynum. Melo is still the best player, IMO, he did have a bad season, his worst since his sophomore year, and he still averaged 23 points a game. He can score anyway he wants.

BklynKnicks3
09-21-2012, 12:22 PM
So basically you're saying that LeBron James is so great that he will make Carmelo a better player than he ever was? Remember Melo has NEVER once in a season averaged 30 or more while LeBron has done this twice. Now you're saying that because of how great LeBron is Melo will get better. That's huge praise for LeBron.



Melo wasn't even the 2nd best of Team USA I don't know what the hell you're talking about.



That's your opinion. The facts state otherwise. The Knicks biggest strength last season was their D. Something which Melo contributed very little to and was in large part due to Tyson Chandler.



So Melo averaging the worst numbers of his career was thanks to the Lin BS? :laugh2: you're making your boy sound even worse.



You're completely WRONG. Melo did not start off the season averaging 29/7/4 that's how he finished the season. What the hell kinda Melo homer are you?

He won player of the month. Great. That was the third time in his career that he did so as compared to 6 times for Wade. Chris Paul, Durant and LeBron were all better than Melo in the last month of the season as well. He played the best ball of the season and that saved his ***.


Ye lecoward is that great and the fact that Melo wouldnt be double teamed every othe rplay he would shoot a much higher %. Not only the case with Lebron same with cp3/durant as well another elite guy who commands attention maybe drose or flopper to.

b@llhog24
09-21-2012, 12:24 PM
one of the reasonings i got for dirk being better than melo was that he rebounds better? what in the world... he's a pf who is 7 feet tall, most other pfs are either 6 8- 6 10..

Because its an indication of separation between Melo and Dirk.


lol and if we are weighing in rebounding than why isnt bynum top 5?

Maybe because he's not better than LeBron, Paul, Durant, Dwight or Wade? :eyebrow:


there are more offensive threats playing sf- lebron, durant, granger, pierce, deng (with rose out), gay, beasley, etc than playing pf..

Not that it really matters but which positions has the most offensive threats but whatever also ever if that were true wouldn't that fact that there are more offensive threats playing Sf make Dirk a rarer commodity and thus more valuable?


just saying that assumption that dirk is a better defender than melo without lookin at all variables, is kinda interesting.

It's not an assumption it's a fact.


i guess everyone's entitled to their own opinion, so regardless of what i say, u will still feel dirk rightfully went ahead of melo..

How dare I think that the superior player get voted in ahead his inferior counterpart.


i just dont see it.

Get a new prescription.


Melo is more clutch, and his intangibles are greatly superior.
Dirk is the better shooter.
they both can turn the light switch on at any moment and go on 4th quarter take overs.. well any star should be able to do that..

that's really all he has lol

Prove it.



in my humble opinion of course.

Fine by me.

Swashcuff
09-21-2012, 12:27 PM
Ye lecoward is that great and the fact that Melo wouldnt be double teamed every othe rplay he would shoot a much higher %. Not only the case with Lebron same with cp3/durant as well another elite guy who commands attention maybe drose or flopper to.

Melo wasn't doubled often when he played with Chauncey or A.I. he never averaged 30. Before Westbrook came into his own KD averaged 30 when being doubled. You know Wade averaged 30 as the main guy as well? Difference between all these guys and Melo they beat you in other ways than scoring, like playmaking, defense, etc. Melo well he just scores and he isn't even elite in that regard.

Da Knicks
09-21-2012, 12:30 PM
Melo wasn't doubled often when he played with Chauncey or A.I. he never averaged 30. Before Westbrook came into his own KD averaged 30 when being doubled. You know Wade averaged 30 as the main guy as well? Difference between all these guys and Melo they beat you in other ways than scoring, like playmaking, defense, etc. Melo well he just scores and he isn't even elite in that regard.

another melo hater! lol cant wait for the season to start!

Swashcuff
09-21-2012, 12:34 PM
another melo hater! lol cant wait for the season to start!

I love Carmelo Anthony he's one of my favourite player in the league when A.I. teamed with him I was beyond ecstatic despite the fact that A.I. left my favourite team. Problem with you is that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a Melo hater.

Prove to me how I am a Melo hater. Everything I have said I can back up. Can you back up Melo being the best offensive player in the NBA when he hasn't won a scoring title or even averaged over 30 a game in a season?

DoMeFavors
09-21-2012, 12:55 PM
How is Bynum so high he played with Kobe another overated player and couldnt even get out of the 2nd round.

He didnt even have that great of a season this is a guy who up untill this year was a nobody. He was always said to be the 2nd best center in the league and thats a lie.

You will see when he is the 1st option, oh this praise will go down the drain. I can tell you that.

Swashcuff
09-21-2012, 01:00 PM
How is Bynum so high he played with Kobe another overated player and couldnt even get out of the 2nd round.

He didnt even have that great of a season this is a guy who up untill this year was a nobody. He was always said to be the 2nd best center in the league and thats a lie.

You will see when he is the 1st option, oh this praise will go down the drain. I can tell you that.

Did they not play against the team with the #2 and #10 players? Kobe himself finished behind KD and Bynum is going to finish behind Westbrook.

DoMeFavors
09-21-2012, 01:05 PM
Did they not play against the team with the #2 and #10 players? Kobe himself finished behind KD and Bynum is going to finish behind Westbrook.

The year before lost to Dallas in a 4-0 sweep

jerellh528
09-21-2012, 01:09 PM
The year before lost to Dallas in a 4-0 sweep

that was after their third straight year in the finals lol

Swashcuff
09-21-2012, 01:10 PM
The year before lost to Dallas in a 4-0 sweep

Are we talking about the year before? What kind of garbage argument is that? The Mavs won the title should that make Dirk better than LeBron this past season? By your notion Deron shouldn't even be top 20.

bucketss
09-21-2012, 01:16 PM
lol seems like ny fans just logged in.

DoMeFavors
09-21-2012, 01:17 PM
Bynum played with Gasol and Kobe this year and couldnt do anything thats not the 2nd best center in the league...if you are a lot better center than anyone OKC has or Dallas has you should make it a close series. He will actually have attention on himself this year.

BklynKnicks3
09-21-2012, 01:29 PM
I got some dirt on the flopping wade for ya wade career record no shaq and Lebron is 105-141 very legendary

Corey
09-21-2012, 01:35 PM
Bynum played with Gasol and Kobe this year and couldnt do anything thats not the 2nd best center in the league...if you are a lot better center than anyone OKC has or Dallas has you should make it a close series. He will actually have attention on himself this year.
...What?

I got some dirt on the flopping wade for ya wade career record no shaq and Lebron is 105-141 very legendary

Its time to step away from the keyboard.

bucketss
09-21-2012, 01:35 PM
I got some dirt on the flopping wade for ya wade career record no shaq and Lebron is 105-141 very legendary

being injured for two years and than playing with daquean cook and m.beasly? and when he returned from injury he still managed to get the heat a better record than melo has the past two years in new york.

jerellh528
09-21-2012, 01:36 PM
Bynum played with Gasol and Kobe this year and couldnt do anything thats not the 2nd best center in the league...if you are a lot better center than anyone OKC has or Dallas has you should make it a close series. He will actually have attention on himself this year.

ahahah not true, you know nothing of basketball. how come the heat didnt win in 2010?

bucketss
09-21-2012, 01:36 PM
melo was playing like monta ellis for the whole year minus one month

Kashmir13579
09-21-2012, 01:47 PM
melo was playing like monta ellis for the whole year minus one month
yes.

DoMeFavors
09-21-2012, 01:49 PM
ahahah not true, you know nothing of basketball. how come the heat didnt win in 2010?

Why are you comparing the 2? What has Bynum ever achieved on his own without 2 all stars?

A dominated center especially the 2nd best should be carrying teams especially since his peak the last 2 years. And the 2 losses as Kobe has gotten older and Gasol it has fallen on Bynum and he couldnt get it done. He should have been more dominate threat. 2nd best center playing along side Kobe and Gasol should be a lot better of a team recently.

bucketss
09-21-2012, 02:32 PM
Why are you comparing the 2? What has Bynum ever achieved on his own without 2 all stars?

A dominated center especially the 2nd best should be carrying teams especially since his peak the last 2 years. And the 2 losses as Kobe has gotten older and Gasol it has fallen on Bynum and he couldnt get it done. He should have been more dominate threat. 2nd best center playing along side Kobe and Gasol should be a lot better of a team recently.

so whos the second best center? let me guess lopez? bahahaha:facepalm:

Corey
09-21-2012, 02:57 PM
Lopez is better than Bynum according to DMF. He's said it before.

b@llhog24
09-21-2012, 03:02 PM
Lopez is better than Bynum according to DMF. She's said it before.

Fixed :D

Avenged
09-21-2012, 03:05 PM
If Bynum was still a Laker he would have won this spot.

Just saying.

SteBO
09-21-2012, 03:09 PM
If Bynum was still a Laker he would have won this spot.

Just saying.
Laker or not, he should've won this spot.

mrblisterdundee
09-21-2012, 03:31 PM
You're bringing in career averages into your argument for how good a player is right now..how do you not see the flaw in that?

And I'd love to hear how Deron played "really well" last season. He shot career lows from the field and from 3. He played the worst defense of his career. He turned the ball over a ton.

There's no possible way he was better than Bynum last year.

And yes, you ARE contradicting yourself. You act like career games played averages should factor into this, then completely ignore the fact that Bynum played more than Deron last year. Get out of here with that.

A five-game difference in one season doesn't establish any sort of pattern in a player's health, while 15-game difference over an entire career does - thus one is important and the other isn't, without it being a contradiction.
And Bynum's health over his entire career - he plays 70 percent of the season, on average, whereas Deron Williams plays 90 percent of the season, on average - factors in greatly to how good he might this season, because it points to a likelihood of him missing more games, and thus not being as valuable of a player.

Bruno
09-21-2012, 03:39 PM
oh, with the comeback.

NYYCowboys
09-21-2012, 03:44 PM
I take partial credit for Melo's victory by posting the link in the Knicks forum. Payback for the whole Nate Robinson debacle (even though that poll was ********).

Jesse2272
09-21-2012, 03:54 PM
Give or take a spot Melo is right where he should be based on last season alone IMO

NYKnicks4511
09-21-2012, 04:18 PM
This isn't a top scorers ranking, it's a best player ranking. It also isn't a lifetime achievement ranking or potential ranking - it's the best players right now.

DWill scored just as efficiently as Melo this year by every metric, and LMA much more so, and they both put up a very similar ppg to Melo. Those guys also bring much more to the table, whereas Melo scores and does not much else.
Could you make an argument for why you put Melo above either of those guys? If it's homerism or star power/hype then that's fine, I just want to know that (I've homer voted Bynum myself a few times). If you're actually basing it on something relevant, enlighten me.

Oooh! Yeah I can read, thanks. I was comparing the two top vote-getters (Bynum and Melo), and made no reference to stats or metrics at all. I simply made a point, that while Bynum was playing third fiddle to Kobe and Gasol, Carmelo was the focus of all team defenses that he faced. In terms of leading a team as the number one option, Bynum is unproven in that regard.

The biggest fallacy in comparative evaluation lies in sabermetric/advanced stats -- they are definitely useful in comparing players at the same position but it's rather silly to compare Melo's assist percentage vs Deron's, or Deron's FG% vs. Bynum's. People need to take a step back and realize that a guy who played hurt last year for most of the season still put up solid numbers despite a coaching and unforeseen changes (Lin's emergence).

So in summa, when I evaluate a player I pay attention to stats, no doubt, but I am more cognizant of other factors (clutch factor, isolation prowess, role on the team). Just my way of thinking, take it however you want.

Swashcuff
09-22-2012, 10:31 AM
Oooh! Yeah I can read, thanks. I was comparing the two top vote-getters (Bynum and Melo), and made no reference to stats or metrics at all. I simply made a point, that while Bynum was playing third fiddle to Kobe and Gasol, Carmelo was the focus of all team defenses that he faced. In terms of leading a team as the number one option, Bynum is unproven in that regard.

So because he is unproven in that regard makes him less of a player? Scottie Pippen was unproven as a #1 before MJ retired the first time but that didn't make him less of a player than Mitch Richmond. There is more to basketball than being a #1. Bynum was the Lakers #1 post option last season and their #2 option overall and was extremely valuable in that regard. He anchored their D as hands down their best defensive player.


The biggest fallacy in comparative evaluation lies in sabermetric/advanced stats -- they are definitely useful in comparing players at the same position but it's rather silly to compare Melo's assist percentage vs Deron's, or Deron's FG% vs. Bynum's.

Anyone who NASA semi decent upstanding of statistics and how to use them will never compare the FG% of a PG to a C. What they will do however is compare them to their peers. For example thr average TS% of the Centre
position last season was 53.8 Andrew Bynum's TS% was 59.4 that's good for a +5.6% in comparison the league average TS% for the PG was 52.4 and Deron's was 52.8 that's good for +0.4% which as we all know isn't anything special. So if anyone cites the fact that Deron is inferior in terms of scoring efficiency is certainly merrited.


People need to take a step back and realize that a guy who played hurt last year for most of the season still put up solid numbers despite a coaching and unforeseen changes (Lin's emergence).

You need to sit back and realize that you can't praise a player for being injured. You're telling us at Lin emergence hurt Melo well that is hands down one of the worst reasons you can use for Melo's poor play. If a player can't play well when another player emerges what does that tell you? He can't adapt or play well in. A scenario where he is not the focal point. He could adapt to the system that was in place in NY. How is that in any way shape or form a positive?


Soin summa, when I evaluate a player I pay attention to stats, no doubt, but I am more cognizant of other factors (clutch factor, isolation prowess, role on the team). Just my way of thinking, take it however you want.

What about defense? Consitency? Impact? Etc it sounds to me that you pay attention to the things that Melo do better than Bynum as your reasoning for making a decision while not taking other more important factors into consideration.

NYKnicks4511
09-22-2012, 05:45 PM
So because he is unproven in that regard makes him less of a player? Scottie Pippen was unproven as a #1 before MJ retired the first time but that didn't make him less of a player than Mitch Richmond. There is more to basketball than being a #1. Bynum was the Lakers #1 post option last season and their #2 option overall and was extremely valuable in that regard. He anchored their D as hands down their best defensive player.
Doesn't make him less of a player because he's unproven, I never insinuated that. Your reading comprehension must be lacking in that regard. I said that Bynum received less attention from defenses because of the team he played on. (True or false?) Melo was the sole focus of defenses last year and was the recipient of double teams more so than Bynum(True or false?). "Bynum was extremely valuable in that regard" - well, Melo was the number one offensive option, he was 'extremely valuable' in that regard. His defense (which many of PSD posters neglect to acknowledge, HAS IMPROVED). Since I know you are one of the many who are endeared to your sabermetrics, go ahead and check out his defensive advanced stats. While he isn't a great defender by any means, he is solid for his position.



Anyone who has a semi decent upstanding of statistics and how to use them will never compare the FG% of a PG to a C. What they will do however is compare them to their peers. For example thr average TS% of the Centre
position last season was 53.8 Andrew Bynum's TS% was 59.4 that's good for a +5.6% in comparison the league average TS% for the PG was 52.4 and Deron's was 52.8 that's good for +0.4% which as we all know isn't anything special. So if anyone cites the fact that Deron is inferior in terms of scoring efficiency is certainly merrited.
So ... we're on the same page here. Good.
EDIT: I should add that comparatively, the PG position is FAR deeper than the 5, but all in all your points are valid.


You need to sit back and realize that you can't praise a player for being injured. You're telling us at Lin emergence hurt Melo well that is hands down one of the worst reasons you can use for Melo's poor play. If a player can't play well when another player emerges what does that tell you? He can't adapt or play well in. A scenario where he is not the focal point. He could adapt to the system that was in place in NY. How is that in any way shape or form a positive?
This is where I need to address your spin control. I understand that you're a pretty smart guy in terms of basketball acumen, but I never praised a player for being injured. That being said, it is utterly ******** to toss aside the fact that he played through injury for most of a season, which adversely affected his stats. This is a guy who is in the prime of his career, has routinely put up numbers, and this year they fell. Before you address it, I'll be the first to say that I understand that this isn't a 'lifetime achievement' thread, but then how did you and others put D-Rose in the top 10 last year? Food for thought, don't let it go to waste. And regarding Lin, (ugh)... you are so ignorant of the fact that for an isolation player, a volume scorer like Melo, having a point guard who dominates the ball for more than half of a possession doesn't bode well for his game. Melo is hands down the best player on the Knicks, why in the hell did D'Antoni and the Knicks coaching staff not augment the offense to best suit Carmelo's game? That's why they got fired, and that's why when Woodson took over and played to Melo's strengths, he received the player of the month award, and almost single-handedly carried the Knicks into the playoffs. Again, true or false, did I say anything wrong here?


What about defense? Consitency? Impact? Etc it sounds to me that you pay attention to the things that Melo do better than Bynum as your reasoning for making a decision while not taking other more important factors into consideration.
To clarify, I didn't intentionally disregard defense - I just pointed out some factors off the top of my head that the poster neglected to mention. Consistency, sure, very important. Impact? As arbitrary as "playing with heart" to me, but playing both sides of the ball is important, no doubt. All in all, I thought Melo was a better, and more impactful player than Bynum. It's my opinion and it's not going to change.