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Mile High Champ
09-18-2012, 11:49 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last four years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. The season is now over and the Heat have been crowned NBA champs which means its time to kick off the off-season player rankings.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron was labelled by some as Choke Artist in the clutch and now this year had one of the greatest finals performances in recent memory. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for two days and than we can carry on to the next best player in the league. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 4 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best

Rules of adding players to the Voting Process

In terms of adding players to the poll, it will be done like this.

As soon as Russell Westbrook goes off the board, I will add other PG's.
As soon as Manu Ginobili goes off the board, I will add other SG's
As soon as Dirk Nowitzki goes off the board, I will add other PF's.

And so on and so on..

This is to ensure that players that won their respective positions get a higher place in the list.

Current Player Comparison:


_____________ Player Season ____ Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Carmelo Anthony 2011-12 27 55 1876 21.1 .525 .463 5.4 15.9 10.6 21.0 1.7 1.0 10.8 31.8 106 102 3.7 2.6 6.2 .160
2 Andrew Bynum 2011-12 24 60 2112 22.9 .594 .558 10.6 26.1 18.7 7.4 0.7 4.0 13.9 23.8 112 100 4.8 3.3 8.0 .183
3 Manu Ginobili 2011-12 34 34 792 24.1 .668 .618 2.7 13.9 8.4 30.3 1.6 1.1 16.3 22.7 125 104 3.4 0.9 4.2 .257
4 Dirk Nowitzki 2011-12 33 62 2079 21.7 .564 .495 2.5 20.0 11.3 12.6 1.1 1.2 9.0 29.2 110 103 5.0 2.6 7.6 .175
5 Russell Westbrook 2011-12 23 66 2331 22.9 .538 .481 5.0 9.4 7.4 29.8 2.5 0.7 14.2 32.7 108 105 5.5 2.4 7.9 .163

2012 NBA Off-Season Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Dwight Howard
4) Chris Paul
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Dwyane Wade
7) Kevin Love
8) Derrick Rose
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)


2011 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Kevin Durant
8) Derrick Rose
9) Deron Williams
10) Carmelo Anthony

2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy[/CODE]

2012 NBA Off-Season Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Dwight Howard
4) Chris Paul
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Dwyane Wade
7) Kevin Love
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)


2011 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Kevin Durant
8) Derrick Rose
9) Deron Williams
10) Carmelo Anthony

2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

Mr. Baller
09-18-2012, 11:51 AM
Dirk here then Westbrook

Mile High Champ
09-18-2012, 11:52 AM
Who you got here?

yaswaggin
09-18-2012, 11:54 AM
Westbrook

JasonJohnHorn
09-18-2012, 11:57 AM
I put up Bynum.

Manu's scoring average is just to low, despite that he is the best shooter available and the fact that he is also a great defender.

Melo had his worst season since his rookie year.
Dirk had his worst season in 12 years in terms of rebounding, assists, socring and shooting %.
Westbrook's FG% is a little too low and his assists per took a dip this year, which is not a good trend for a PG.

So Bynum's rebounding and high FG% and defence in the post give him the endge here.

Jesse2272
09-18-2012, 11:58 AM
Bynum

sixer04fan
09-18-2012, 11:59 AM
I'm going Bynum.

He's right there with Dirk, Melo, and Westbrook at this point. And of the players left on the board, that's who I'm building my team around if I want to win a championship.

Baller1
09-18-2012, 12:15 PM
Westbrook.

Baller1
09-18-2012, 12:15 PM
I'm going Bynum.

He's right there with Dirk, Melo, and Westbrook at this point. And of the players left on the board, that's who I'm building my team around if I want to win a championship.

You mean he's on Philly now so you want to vote for your player? ;)

sixer04fan
09-18-2012, 12:19 PM
You mean he's on Philly now so you want to vote for your player? ;)

Pssh... No! (maybe)

SteBO
09-18-2012, 12:23 PM
Russell Westbrook here.

BklynKnicks3
09-18-2012, 12:23 PM
lol at the sixers fan trying to even make a case for bynum players who arent even the best players on their own team like westbrook and wade shouldnt even be in dicussion this high

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 12:31 PM
Though he's a 76er and now our best player I can't go homer here. Westbrook is still a better player than him IMO. I got Westbrook here.

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 12:35 PM
lol at the sixers fan trying to even make a case for bynum players who arent even the best players on their own team like westbrook and wade shouldnt even be in dicussion this high

Last season Melo may have been the best player on the Knicks but Tyson Chandler was their most valuable. Had it not been for Chandler's play the Knicks would not have sniffed the post season. So I think you trying to lol at a 76ers is extremely DUMB.

Your notion that being the 2nd best doesn't warrant you a spot in the discussion is just as foolish as everything esle you've said. You mean to tell me Kobe wasn't a top 10 player when he played with Shaq, or Kareem wasn't top 10 or West etc. Dude you're talking utter garbage.

justinnum1
09-18-2012, 12:37 PM
westbrick

SteBO
09-18-2012, 12:37 PM
lol at the sixers fan trying to even make a case for bynum players who arent even the best players on their own team like westbrook and wade shouldnt even be in dicussion this high
Yet they're both better players than Melo.......

Corey
09-18-2012, 12:38 PM
Voting for Carmelo over ANY of those 4 is laughable.

It's Westbrook for me.

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 12:38 PM
I put up Bynum.

Manu's scoring average is just to low, despite that he is the best shooter available and the fact that he is also a great defender.

Melo had his worst season since his rookie year.
Dirk had his worst season in 12 years in terms of rebounding, assists, socring and shooting %.
Westbrook's FG% is a little too low and his assists per took a dip this year, which is not a good trend for a PG.

So Bynum's rebounding and high FG% and defence in the post give him the endge here.

Who is APG dropping in one season a trend? That's like saying KD's scoring average dropped from 30 to 27.7 and that's not a good trend. It's one season. That's not a trend the man was averaged 8+ per game in his previous two seasons and had one of the best AST%s in the league and is now in his 4th season. That will very well bounce back to where its suppose to be.

SaimuKala
09-18-2012, 12:39 PM
Russell Westbrook.

sixer04fan
09-18-2012, 12:50 PM
lol at the sixers fan trying to even make a case for bynum players who arent even the best players on their own team like westbrook and wade shouldnt even be in dicussion this high

:facepalm:

justinnum1
09-18-2012, 12:57 PM
after westbrick wins here it will go

dirk
dwill
bynum

EDUTEXANS
09-18-2012, 01:08 PM
That was tough, I don't feel like voting for Westbrook, he needs to develop a little more his game so I can call him a top-10 player. Bynum is the 2nd best center in the league, but no way he is better than Westbrook, Dirk and 'Melo. I'm going Dirk because I feel he will still be the best player this season, he probably won't be after this season.

LTBaByyy
09-18-2012, 01:14 PM
Dirk baby!

LTBaByyy
09-18-2012, 01:14 PM
Hawkeye says Dirk so we all say Dirk

seikou8
09-18-2012, 01:25 PM
russel westbrook

Avenged
09-18-2012, 01:40 PM
Would have gone Love right around this spot but might as well go homer now. Bynum.

29$JerZ
09-18-2012, 01:44 PM
Not ready to call Bynum a top 10 player after 1 healthy season.
Have to go Westbrook here.

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 01:50 PM
Funny that the 3 players leading this poll all got off to poor starts this season or struggled greatly at some point so badly that it was actually some of the worst or if not the worst ball they've played since entering their prime but still were able to turn it around enough to be in the conversation. A testament to how good they all really are.

Chronz
09-18-2012, 02:02 PM
Went Dirk

xxplayerxx23
09-18-2012, 02:05 PM
Dirk, then Westy. Then it gets intresting.

xxplayerxx23
09-18-2012, 02:07 PM
Voting for Carmelo over ANY of those 4 is laughable.

It's Westbrook for me.

Maybe over Bynum, but def over Manu. Melo shoud go 11-13 range.

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-18-2012, 02:32 PM
Westy!

Man, BKLNKnicks is probably cursing at all of his as we speak. :laugh2:

ink
09-18-2012, 02:34 PM
No way Westbrook belongs this high. He sucked so badly in the finals. Magic was right. I have a feeling the Thunder are going to hit their ceiling hard with Westbrook.

Dirk, on the other hand, just keeps producing, efficiently and effectively. So does Manu when he's healthy.

EDUTEXANS
09-18-2012, 02:37 PM
Voting for Carmelo over ANY of those 4 is laughable.

It's Westbrook for me.

I have no idea how a person can think Anthony isn't better than Ginobili. He just had his worst season since his sophomore year and he still played (way) better than Manu. And personally I'm a fan of Ginobili. We all (except NY fans) hate Melo, but you can deny his game. I think he is definitely better than Ginobili and probably better than Bynum. And him over Westbrook is pretty debatable, although I also think Russel is one step ahead here.

ink
09-18-2012, 02:43 PM
I have no idea how a person can think Anthony isn't better than Ginobili. He just had his worst season since his sophomore year and he still played (way) better than Manu. And personally I'm a fan of Ginobili. We all (except NY fans) hate Melo, but you can deny his game. I think he is stbrook is pretty debatable, although I also think Russel is one step ahead here.

If you look at Dirk and Manu, their sheer professionalism, versatility, adaptability, on top of an uncanny skill sets, put them ahead of Melo, who is a difficult player to coach, and a difficult teammate to work with. But it's really a question of what you want to see in a basketball game: ball hogging or team work.

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 02:47 PM
No way Westbrook belongs this high. He sucked so badly in the finals. Magic was right.

LeBron played worst in the finals the year before. Does one series outweigh the entirity of a season? Magic was as wrong as wrong could be and one half doesn't make a player.

Also I'm glad you mentioned the fact that they were in the finals because without Westbrook they would not have sniffed the finals.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2012, 02:48 PM
Dirk, Westy, then Bynum for me, but I won't care what order they really go in.

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 02:50 PM
Dirk, Westy, then Bynum for me, but I won't care what order they really go in because Love went ahead of them all :p.

Fixed

Hawkeye15
09-18-2012, 02:54 PM
Fixed

haha, nah, I honestly don't care if Love gets respect or not, some people need to see him make the playoffs, and I am fine with that. In reality, this would easily be Dirk had he not come into the season out of shape. Westbrook by a slight margin over Bynum. For now. I would go Manu after that, and then start thinking about Melo.

EDUTEXANS
09-18-2012, 03:01 PM
If you look at Dirk and Manu, their sheer professionalism, versatility, adaptability, on top of an uncanny skill sets, put them ahead of Melo, who is a difficult player to coach, and a difficult teammate to work with. But it's really a question of what you want to see in a basketball game: ball hogging or team work.

I get that, that's why I love Dirk and Manu even though I hate their teams. But I don't see how this can make Ginobili better than Anthony. He is the best player period, in my opinion of course. Melo can be a #1 option in a contending team, Manu would was only a #2 guy at best in his prime (a few years ago). I think you all are underating Melo too much, and that's mostly because you hate him, as I do to tell the truth.

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 03:03 PM
haha, nah, I honestly don't care if Love gets respect or not, some people need to see him make the playoffs, and I am fine with that. In reality, this would easily be Dirk had he not come into the season out of shape. Westbrook by a slight margin over Bynum. For now. I would go Manu after that, and then start thinking about Melo.

Melo's final month really made this an argument for me. Not that such a small sample size is enough to merit him being on par or better than other players but he played at a level that I honestly don't think Manu can match. Scoring damn near 30 on fantastic efficiency over a 20 game run was really solid seeing that Melo had such a poor run for the majority of the season.

I can't put a player who didn't even start, play 2/3s of the season or play more than 24 minutes a game over that. I remember last season when I attempted to argue that Tony Allen deserved a top 10 spot in the SG thread you said you don't think he played enough minutes per to earn a spot. Won't you say the same for Manu?

Hawkeye15
09-18-2012, 03:04 PM
Melo's final month really made this an argument for me. Not that such a small sample size is enough to merit him being on par or better than other players but he played at a level that I honestly don't think Manu can match. Scoring damn near 30 on fantastic efficiency over a 20 game run was really solid seeing that Melo had such a poor run for the majority of the season.

I can't put a player who didn't even start, play 2/3s of the season or play more than 24 minutes a game over that. I remember last season when I attempted to argue that Tony Allen deserved a top 10 spot in the SG thread you said you don't think he played enough minutes per to earn a spot. Won't you say the same for Manu?

It holds merit, yes. I was actually going to comment, "can Manu go a season anymore without some freak injury"?

nycericanguy
09-18-2012, 03:32 PM
If you look at Dirk and Manu, their sheer professionalism, versatility, adaptability, on top of an uncanny skill sets, put them ahead of Melo, who is a difficult player to coach, and a difficult teammate to work with. But it's really a question of what you want to see in a basketball game: ball hogging or team work.

In Melo's defense, I haven't really heard that. If anything guys seem to like playing with Melo. Melo helped recruit some former Nuggets in JR & Camby. Chandler also said Melo was a reason he came to NY, as did Kidd. Even Kmart has been linked to coming back to NY, although money is an issue there.

The coaching thing probably holds some merit though, Karl didn't appear to like Melo much, and we know D'antoni had other plans for Melo which eventually led to him leaving.

JNoel
09-18-2012, 03:36 PM
Westbrook is hot garbage, Dirk is the better player.

jerellh528
09-18-2012, 03:38 PM
bynum here, then melo, then westy then pau..

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 03:38 PM
Westbrook is hot garbage, Dirk is the better player.

You hate Westbrook right? Where would you rank him?

justinnum1
09-18-2012, 03:49 PM
westbrick getting underrated by some i think westy is top 4 in his position on offense and defense.

JNoel
09-18-2012, 03:57 PM
You hate Westbrook right? Where would you rank him?

I don't hate him, I just think he's very overrated, I also don't like his cockiness which gets to me.

I would go #13-15

unleashthebeast
09-18-2012, 03:58 PM
Dirk gets the nod here, then Westbrook. I would be fine with Westbrook going first though. He is a stud.

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 04:05 PM
I don't hate him, I just think he's very overrated, I would go #13-15

The fact that you think a top 13-15 player is hot garbage gives us the impression that you may have some hate towards him which is why I asked.

JNoel
09-18-2012, 04:10 PM
The fact that you think a top 13-15 player is hot garbage gives us the impression that you may have some hate towards him which is why I asked.

Hot garbage is better than cold garbage, right?

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 04:13 PM
Hot garbage is better than cold garbage, right?

It depends... did you put it in the microwave or in the oven?

Dade County
09-18-2012, 04:18 PM
Dirk here then Westbrook

Westbrook then Dirk.

JNoel
09-18-2012, 04:25 PM
It depends... did you put it in the microwave or in the oven?

Grilled.

JasonJohnHorn
09-18-2012, 06:37 PM
Poor Bynum... getting no love here. He CLEARLY had a better season than Dirk. I can see some folks voting for Westbrook here, but... WOW!!!! To see Bynum so far behind... doesn't rebounding and interior defence count for anything these days?

Andrew32
09-18-2012, 06:38 PM
Westbrick hasn't played good defense in the playoffs.

Last year he had an 109 DRTG and .3-DWS in 20 games... not very good at all... actually that is pretty bad.

I don't watch him enough to really speak on his defense but the stats sure don't support that view.

Lake_Show2416
09-18-2012, 06:46 PM
easily Dirk, he took a year off cuz of his team, he's still the same Dirk

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 06:56 PM
Westbrick hasn't played good defense in the playoffs.

Last year he had an 109 DRTG and .3-DWS in 20 games... not very good at all... actually that is pretty bad.

I don't watch him enough to really speak on his defense but the stats sure don't support that view.

And hear I was thinking you were a dude who had some sort of uderstanding of statistics. Clearly you don't.

Ask Tony Parker about Westbrook's D.

Andrew32
09-18-2012, 06:58 PM
And hear I was thinking you were a dude who had some sort of uderstanding of statistics. Clearly you don't.

Ask Tony Parker about Westbrook's D.

I said I didn't watch much of WBrook but if his D was so good why don't the statistics reflect it?

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 07:01 PM
I said I didn't watch much of WBrook but if his D was so good why don't the statistics reflect it?

Could you tell me how the statistics are found and how accurate they are at gauging a player's defensive worth.

Keep in my Carlos Boozer arguably the worst defensive starting PF in the NBA lead all PFs in DRtg and was 2nd in terms of DWS.

MELO7NYK/DENfan
09-18-2012, 07:04 PM
I said I didn't watch much of WBrook but if his D was so good why don't the statistics reflect it?

Defense is not all about stats; steals, blocks and def rebounding. It's about on ball d, def awarness and closing out.

MELO7NYK/DENfan
09-18-2012, 07:08 PM
Westbrook is one of the best defensive guards. The way he guarded in the olympics was top d in my opinion.

Raidaz4Life
09-18-2012, 07:19 PM
Dirk

Longhornfan1234
09-18-2012, 07:35 PM
And hear I was thinking you were a dude who had some sort of uderstanding of statistics. Clearly you don't.

Ask Tony Parker about Westbrook's D.

:facepalm:


Parker abused Westbrook in the WCF. After game 2 the OKC put Thabo on Parker. Thabo shut down Parker pretty much.

Andrew32
09-18-2012, 07:40 PM
Could you tell me how the statistics are found and how accurate they are at gauging a player's defensive worth.

Keep in my Carlos Boozer arguably the worst defensive starting PF in the NBA lead all PFs in DRtg and was 2nd in terms of DWS.

Fair enough... I never said using DRTG was a fool proof way of judging defensive impact/ability.

However generally when I think a player is having a good defensive season or playoffs DWShares back me up.

That is just my observation... I rarely think a player is playing good defense and then find he has basic defensive statistics that WBrook had in 2012.

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 07:49 PM
:facepalm:


Parker abused Westbrook in the WCF. After game 2 the OKC put Thabo on Parker. Thabo shut down Parker pretty much.

Wait the same Thabo that played 12 less minutes per game in that series than Tony Parker? That's the same Thabo you're talking about? Parker was given different looks all through the series and was having major issues getting good shots because of the pesky D being played by BOTH Thabo and Westbrook. Are you forgetting that Thabo also spent time guarding Manu when Harden wasn't on the floor? Who was covering Parker then? Ibaka :rolleyes:

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 07:54 PM
Fair enough... I never said using DRTG was a fool proof way of judging defensive impact/ability.

However generally when I think a player is having a good defensive season or playoffs DWShares back me up.

That is just my observation... I rarely think a player is playing good defense and then find he has basic defensive statistics that WBrook had in 2012.

Its a piss poor stat to gauge and individual defensive worth.

Larry Bird had more DWS than Kevin McHale despite playing alongside him. We all know Bird is better defensively than McHale. There are literally hundreds of examples that can be used. DTrg doesn't measure an individual defensive value so why should we attempt to use it for something that it does not calculate. Its like using FT% to argue that a player is a good 3 point shooter.

NYKnicks4511
09-18-2012, 08:04 PM
Maybe a year ago, but there's no way I'd take Dirk over Carmelo at this very moment. I think people are getting too caught up in the advanced stats, which I remind you all, reflect a SHORTENED SEASON. Ginobili and Melo were both injured/ hampered by injury for a good part of last season, obviously their stats aren't as great as guys like Dirk or RW.

People also forget how good Carmelo was last year after he returned from the second injury. Basically pushed our team into the playoffs after we lost our starting PG, and with Amar'e out of shape all season/ dealing with his brother's death. Took a game off the Heat basically all by himself too. Regardless of where he goes with these rankings, I expect a big season out of him this year and hopefully he can start making moves into a top 5 player (like he's proclaimed himself to be).

Swashcuff
09-18-2012, 08:11 PM
Maybe a year ago, but there's no way I'd take Dirk over Carmelo at this very moment. I think people are getting too caught up in the advanced stats, which I remind you all, reflect a SHORTENED SEASON. Ginobili and Melo were both injured/ hampered by injury for a good part of last season, obviously their stats aren't as great as guys like Dirk or RW.

People also forget how good Carmelo was last year after he returned from the second injury. Basically pushed our team into the playoffs after we lost our starting PG, and with Amar'e out of shape all season/ dealing with his brother's death. Took a game off the Heat basically all by himself too. Regardless of where he goes with these rankings, I expect a big season out of him this year and hopefully he can start making moves into a top 5 player (like he's proclaimed himself to be).

So are you saying that since Melo was injured we should reward him and penalize Dirk and Westbrook? Is that what you're trying to tell us?

I understand the fact that you want to remind us of the fact that Melo was injured and he played well when he was healthy but was it just health or was it more. As a fan who watches him all the time do you think the only reason Melo played poorly (by his standards) for 3/4 of the season is solely because he was injured or do you think there was more to it than just that. If there was more to it should we also reward Melo for it?

beasted86
09-18-2012, 08:17 PM
I forgot about Westbrook and voted Carmelo. It's Westbrook here, but Carmelo is probably higher than Dirk IMO.

NYKnicksAllDay
09-18-2012, 08:30 PM
I went with Westbrook.

xxplayerxx23
09-18-2012, 10:28 PM
Westy is a top 5 defender at his Pos.

jerellh528
09-19-2012, 02:34 AM
I dont know how dirk is winning this and I love dirk, is this thread based on career or upcoming season?

Kobes a Killer
09-19-2012, 03:18 AM
Dirk is not better then Russel at this point in his career plain and simple. I'd probably take Melo over Dirk at this point too

thenaj17
09-19-2012, 05:54 AM
I think Westbrook is possibly the best player of these because he's just so dynamic BUT to me Dirk at his height, touch, range is just so unguardable when he's on his game. It's so rare to have a big with his skills.

b@llhog24
09-19-2012, 08:53 AM
I get that, that's why I love Dirk and Manu even though I hate their teams. But I don't see how this can make Ginobili better than Anthony. He is the best player period, in my opinion of course. Melo can be a #1 option in a contending team, Manu would was only a #2 guy at best in his prime (a few years ago). I think you all are underating Melo too much, and that's mostly because you hate him, as I do to tell the truth.

I disagree.


Westbrick hasn't played good defense in the playoffs.

Last year he had an 109 DRTG and .3-DWS in 20 games... not very good at all... actually that is pretty bad.

I don't watch him enough to really speak on his defense but the stats sure don't support that view.

Well you should since heís one of the best defensive point guards in the game. His defense actually improved in the playoffs imo.


Maybe a year ago, but there's no way I'd take Dirk over Carmelo at this very moment. I think people are getting too caught up in the advanced stats, which I remind you all, reflect a SHORTENED SEASON. Ginobili and Melo were both injured/ hampered by injury for a good part of last season, obviously their stats aren't as great as guys like Dirk or RW.

I swear people just attack advanced stats out of nowhere with very little comprehension of them. How does playing in a short season improve your advanced stat line? And even if it did Gino and Dirk have higher advanced stat rates than Melo regardless of the length of the season.


People also forget how good Carmelo was last year after he returned from the second injury.

Nobody forgot, itís the same script every year. Melo goes on a hot stretch then plays like poo for another.


Basically pushed our team into the playoffs after we lost our starting PG, and with Amar'e out of shape all season/ dealing with his brother's death. Took a game off the Heat basically all by himself too. Regardless of where he goes with these rankings, I expect a big season out of him this year and hopefully he can start making moves into a top 5 player (like he's proclaimed himself to be).

The Knicks won games by their defense last season, guess which player outside of Amare was the least instrumental in improving their D? I'll give you a hint it wasn't Shumpert :)

b@llhog24
09-19-2012, 08:55 AM
Gimme Dirk.

BklynKnicks3
09-19-2012, 09:11 AM
this is way to low for melo i got dirk here nothing but respect beat 2 cowards without a 2nd star #salute

nbrod
09-19-2012, 09:39 AM
Wessy

Chronz
09-19-2012, 11:41 AM
I get that, that's why I love Dirk and Manu even though I hate their teams. But I don't see how this can make Ginobili better than Anthony. He is the best player period, in my opinion of course. Melo can be a #1 option in a contending team, Manu would was only a #2 guy at best in his prime (a few years ago). I think you all are underating Melo too much, and that's mostly because you hate him, as I do to tell the truth.

Ill take the number 2 who can provide efficient results than a number 1 who cant. Its like the Shane Battier vs Caron Butler argument, in their primes Caron was a better go to option, but within the confines of a TEAM game, its Battiers efficiency that makes him a fit on any contending team.

Kashmir13579
09-19-2012, 11:47 AM
Westbrook isn't top 10

BklynKnicks3
09-19-2012, 11:48 AM
Ill take the number 2 who can provide efficient results than a number 1 who cant. Its like the Shane Battier vs Caron Butler argument, in their primes Caron was a better go to option, but within the confines of a TEAM game, its Battiers efficiency that makes him a fit on any contending team.

because people on here have no idea about basketball they should be on checkers or golf forum. Westbrook or westy as u clowns call him as number 1 option is a lottery team/so is love these player in the nba will get u to 500 or better alone. Melo/durant/wade/kobe/cp3/howard/dirk/rose Lebron willl take any team to 50 wins. The rest of nba is not on that level

Chronz
09-19-2012, 11:49 AM
because people on here have no idea about basketball they should be on checkers or golf forum. Westbrook or westy as u clowns call him as number 1 option is a lottery team/so is love these player in the nba will get u to 500 or better alone. Melo/durant/wade/kobe/cp3/howard/dirk/rose Lebron willl take any team to 50 wins. The rest of nba is not on that level

Do you have any evidence to suggest your doing anything but talking out of your ***?

BklynKnicks3
09-19-2012, 11:53 AM
Do you have any evidence to suggest your doing anything but talking out of your ***?

Ye i do ive seen all those players do it honestly except durant he needed wb/harden to go .500 but iam giving him a spot on list since he has improved some. Just look at wb play he is a crash dummy he is very talanted but raw n reckless he is like blake griffen playin pg. Love has been a loser his whole career so far. Dwill 2 strait 20 win duds. while the rest of the guys i named all never been below 500 more then once. My boy Melo never been under .500

Chronz
09-19-2012, 12:21 PM
Ye i do ive seen all those players do it honestly except durant he needed wb/harden to go .500 but iam giving him a spot on list since he has improved some. Just look at wb play he is a crash dummy he is very talanted but raw n reckless he is like blake griffen playin pg. Love has been a loser his whole career so far. Dwill 2 strait 20 win duds. while the rest of the guys i named all never been below 500 more then once. My boy Melo never been under .500

But you've seen Kobe under.500 and miss the playoffs, and hes better than Melo has ever been so what exactly is the point of Melo never being below .500?

Its not as if hes a better player than Kobe so hes obviously just had alot more help.

But what was Melo's record this year anyways? I know the Knicks were above .500 but what was their record with Melo? Its probably above .500 but not by much.

ClearSoulForce
09-19-2012, 12:30 PM
It's Dirk and quite easily. Bynum can't carry a team, YET. Carmelo hasn't carried a team, Russ is a beast but npt as good as Dirk.

People are severely underrating Ginobili though. There are very few players you pick over him once you hit the playoffs.

Dirk then Russ then Bynum then either Gasol or Melo.

justinnum1
09-19-2012, 12:32 PM
this is way to low for melo i got dirk here nothing but respect beat 2 cowards without a 2nd star #salute

i dont see melo winning the next 3 spots

BklynKnicks3
09-19-2012, 12:56 PM
But you've seen Kobe under.500 and miss the playoffs, and hes better than Melo has ever been so what exactly is the point of Melo never being below .500?

Its not as if hes a better player than Kobe so hes obviously just had alot more help.

But what was Melo's record this year anyways? I know the Knicks were above .500 but what was their record with Melo? Its probably above .500 but not by much.

I dont think Kobe is better then Melo right now career wise obv he is the best active player. Kobe plays with a guy who won 50 games without him in memphis

Swashcuff
09-19-2012, 01:15 PM
It's Dirk and quite easily. Bynum can't carry a team, YET. Carmelo hasn't carried a team, Russ is a beast but npt as good as Dirk.

People are severely underrating Ginobili though. There are very few players you pick over him once you hit the playoffs.

Dirk then Russ then Bynum then either Gasol or Melo.

This post is extremely ironic. You say Melo can't carry a team and neither can Bynum but then you say Manu is underrated because he plays well in the post season. Manu has never carried a team before.... he isn't even able to stay healthy enough to do so and he didn't enough play much this past season. As a player Manu is great but he isn't being underrated here IMO.

Chronz
09-19-2012, 01:28 PM
I dont think Kobe is better then Melo right now career wise obv he is the best active player. Kobe plays with a guy who won 50 games without him in memphis

Thats why your argument of _insert great player here_ taking you to .500 isnt a surefire thing. Kobe was a better player years ago and even then he missed the playoffs. You can hold it against a guy for not showing what he has in the playoffs but there are also things you cant control as a player.

Kashmir13579
09-19-2012, 02:56 PM
But what was Melo's record this year anyways? I know the Knicks were above .500 but what was their record with Melo? Its probably above .500 but not by much.

It hasn't been a pretty sight.

ClearSoulForce
09-19-2012, 03:44 PM
This post is extremely ironic. You say Melo can't carry a team and neither can Bynum but then you say Manu is underrated because he plays well in the post season. Manu has never carried a team before.... he isn't even able to stay healthy enough to do so and he didn't enough play much this past season. As a player Manu is great but he isn't being underrated here IMO.

Basically what I'm saying and hopefully you agree too, Carmelo may be the better player but once the postseason hits, Manu is better. Manu in the postseason is a borderline superstar. He just knows how to play when it counts. Do you agree with me on that much?

It was basically me pimping up Manu even though I hate the bastard :mad:

Swashcuff
09-19-2012, 03:53 PM
Basically what I'm saying and hopefully you agree too, Carmelo may be the better player but once the postseason hits, Manu is better. Manu in the postseason is a borderline superstar. He just knows how to play when it counts. Do you agree with me on that much?

It was basically me pimping up Manu even though I hate the bastard :mad:

I can dig it :nod:

BklynKnicks3
09-19-2012, 03:59 PM
Thats why your argument of _insert great player here_ taking you to .500 isnt a surefire thing. Kobe was a better player years ago and even then he missed the playoffs. You can hold it against a guy for not showing what he has in the playoffs but there are also things you cant control as a player.

miss it 1 time ok bad year love been in nba what 4 years now still hasnt sniffed playoffs his team last year wasnt even that bad and he is 7th. That is a flat out disgrace he is not in the same breath as Melo. Last summer he wasnt top 10 his numbers werent that diffrent how is he 7th now

29$JerZ
09-19-2012, 04:03 PM
miss it 1 time ok bad year love been in nba what 4 years now still hasnt sniffed playoffs his team last year wasnt even that bad and he is 7th. That is a flat out disgrace he is not in the same breath as Melo. Last summer he wasnt top 10 his numbers werent that diffrent how is he 7th now

Love wasn't voted into Top 10 because people saw it as huge stats on a bad team and he needed to repeat it to confirm himself among PF's in the NBA.
If not for Minny going through a ton of injuries they make the Playoffs. He repeated his numbers and even improved in areas of his game so he can officially be mentioned as a top 10 player.

Melo had a horrendous year, gives an amazing April performance, and is able to get 1 playoff win against the HEAT. What did Melo do to make himself stand out better than Love?

If you are willing to let go of Melo's playoff failures because of teammates surely you can do the same for Love who went to a team rebuilding from KG and had a GM who was stock piling PG's instead of improving the team.

BklynKnicks3
09-19-2012, 04:14 PM
Love wasn't voted into Top 10 because people saw it as huge stats on a bad team and he needed to repeat it to confirm himself among PF's in the NBA.
If not for Minny going through a ton of injuries they make the Playoffs. He repeated his numbers and even improved in areas of his game so he can officially be mentioned as a top 10 player.

Melo had a horrendous year, gives an amazing April performance, and is able to get 1 playoff win against the HEAT. What did Melo do to make himself stand out better than Love?

If you are willing to let go of Melo's playoff failures because of teammates surely you can do the same for Love who went to a team rebuilding from KG and had a GM who was stock piling PG's instead of improving the team.

I always say if u are elite u alone should mean a playoff birth or at least close. Melo did that avg 27.8 ppg over 7rbs vs Lebron head to head. Held lebron to his lowest total of any series. Not bad for some1 who people kill for his D. Give Me Melo over any1 in this league not named Lecon. Melo is the only guy to have over 40 vs lebron 3 or mroe times!!!! food for thought

Swashcuff
09-19-2012, 04:27 PM
I always say if u are elite u alone should mean a playoff birth or at least close. Melo did that avg 27.8 ppg over 7rbs vs Lebron head to head. Held lebron to his lowest total of any series. Not bad for some1 who people kill for his D. Give Me Melo over any1 in this league not named Lecon. Melo is the only guy to have over 40 vs lebron 3 or mroe times!!!! food for thought

What part of a team sport don't you understand? The team or the sport? LeBron wasn't going full throttle against the Knicks as he didn't have to. Melo didn't hold LeBron to anything.

BklynKnicks3
09-19-2012, 04:33 PM
What part of a team sport don't you understand? The team or the sport? LeBron wasn't going full throttle against the Knicks as he didn't have to. Melo didn't hold LeBron to anything.

More then any1 on here actually. Melo held lebron man for the most part while Lebron and battier switched back n forth on who guarded Melo. Usually both with 1 playing free saftey trying to deny the ball because they know what happens when the bully gets the ball.

NYKnicksAllDay
09-19-2012, 04:52 PM
More then any1 on here actually. Melo held lebron man for the most part while Lebron and battier switched back n forth on who guarded Melo. Usually both with 1 playing free saftey trying to deny the ball because they know what happens when the bully gets the ball.

He scores 27 points on 27 ill-advised shots?

justinnum1
09-19-2012, 04:56 PM
More then any1 on here actually. Melo held lebron man for the most part while Lebron and battier switched back n forth on who guarded Melo. Usually both with 1 playing free saftey trying to deny the ball because they know what happens when the bully gets the ball.

Miami's game plan was let melo chuck all day long. When melo chucks his team doesn't win.

NYYCowboys
09-19-2012, 05:04 PM
I always say if u are elite u alone should mean a playoff birth or at least close. Melo did that avg 27.8 ppg over 7rbs vs Lebron head to head. Held lebron to his lowest total of any series. Not bad for some1 who people kill for his D. Give Me Melo over any1 in this league not named Lecon. Melo is the only guy to have over 40 vs lebron 3 or mroe times!!!! food for thought

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm: