PDA

View Full Version : Rajon Rondo disses Ray Allen on TV



Punk
09-15-2012, 02:13 AM
http://promagazine.info/interviews/rajon-rondo-on-106-park/

Skip to the 2:30 mark of the interview.

Host: Have you talked to Jesus? Have you talked to Ray Allen, man?
Rondo: Oh, that guy....
Host: Ohh....
Rondo: I talk to the Lord.
Host: You say you what?
Rondo: To the Lord.
Host: Oh...We'll just leave it at that
*awkward silence*

They really do hate each other. :laugh2:

bucketss
09-15-2012, 02:18 AM
wait. what happened to rocsi and Terrance havent watched this in awhile. lol horrible show though -.-

Kashmir13579
09-15-2012, 02:24 AM
Their personalities are polar opposites. It doesn't surprise me they clashed.

cheaptrikz
09-15-2012, 02:35 AM
lol "i talked to the lord" awkward also who the hell are thses jibronis hosting this, AJ and Free use to be the ****

douglas
09-15-2012, 02:36 AM
I think Rajon Rondo is mad at Ray Allen and Ray Allen is mad at Rajon Rondo.

Mishmin
09-15-2012, 02:50 AM
This thread should be called Rajon Rondo goes on 106 and Park. Not worth making drama out of this scrap of nothing.

king4day
09-15-2012, 03:05 AM
Not sure where the diss was. The interviewer said Jesus first. Sounds like Rondo was simply playing with him.

dee279
09-15-2012, 03:21 AM
Basically said he talks to Jesus and dont talk to Ray. Not really a dis

naps
09-15-2012, 03:22 AM
LOL. I actually laughed. Rondo's personality goes just fine with the current Celtic culture that Kevin Garnett created. Love Rondo's game and swag.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-15-2012, 03:26 AM
well...at least he was honest

dodie53
09-15-2012, 04:13 AM
would cheer for rondo when KG retires

Losoway
09-15-2012, 04:22 AM
rondo is a dick

NYYCowboys
09-15-2012, 04:58 AM
I wouldn't say he dissed him. He just is confirming he doesn't like him.

The1_Who_knocks
09-15-2012, 06:34 AM
Hah

JNA17
09-15-2012, 07:20 AM
well...at least he was honest

Rondo claims that he talked to the Lord. How is that honesty? :confused:

ichitownclowni
09-15-2012, 07:36 AM
Rondo claims that he talked to the Lord. How is that honesty? :confused:

Who are you to say he didn't

Tumstock
09-15-2012, 08:07 AM
Ray Allen is a punk, I hope KG throws some sharp elbows at him in the opener!

bagwell368
09-15-2012, 08:20 AM
Ray Allen is a punk, I hope KG throws some sharp elbows at him in the opener!

I'm afraid Rondo is the punk..

Boston sports radio famous for overplaying every single topic couldn't barely get a rise out of anyone with this.

Rondo is a demonstrated jerk - per his Coaches (college and pro), stubborn, uncoachable even, GM, quitting Team USA before he was cut, yapping at photographers doing their job, starting fights with Cedric Maxwell.

He's about 3x more reactive than you should be to be a leader of a pro sports franchise in Boston (which is why he'll never be an effective leader). He also can't shoot the rock from outside of 10'.

Ray Allen was the member of the big 3 asked to change his game the most for the team, and he did - quietly. He just didn't count on Rondo making himself an Assistant Coach in his own mind, and foisting his annoying me first in your face "leadership".

RLundi
09-15-2012, 08:23 AM
I did not see any insult.

Tumstock
09-15-2012, 08:29 AM
I'm afraid Rondo is the punk..

Boston sports radio famous for overplaying every single topic couldn't barely get a rise out of anyone with this.

Rondo is a demonstrated jerk off - per his Coaches (college and pro), stubborn, uncoachable even, GM, quitting Team USA before he was cut, yapping at photographers doing their job, starting fights with Cedric Maxwell.

He's about 3x more reactive than you should be to be a leader of a pro sports franchise in Boston (which is why he'll never be an effective leader). He also can't shoot the rock from outside of 10'.

Ray Allen was the member of the big 3 asked to change his game the most for the team, and he did - quietly. He just didn't count on a cunny like Rondo with all the class of tic on
a dog.

You really like Rondo don't you?

Swashcuff
09-15-2012, 08:36 AM
Solid interview. I like the fact that he said he is part of a super team and doesn't have a problem with it. No douchery here IMO.

bagwell368
09-15-2012, 08:39 AM
You really like Rondo don't you?

I'm sick and tired of watching Rondo go beserk in National TV games and being labeled the best PG in the NBA when an most Tuesday nights against meh teams he mails it in.

His FT% is also getting worse, and he has refused to practice the way Doc wanted him too. I guess he's too damn big for his Coach.

He's an accident waiting to happen. He's also not a leader. He's not fit to wear the mantle that KG/PP/Cowens/Havlicek/Russell wore.

In any given year he's between the 5th and 12th best PG in the league, he should work at getting better, not acting like a six year old having a tantrum.

thedfactor
09-15-2012, 08:44 AM
Funny how bad that girl host was, took her like 4 tries to read the 3rd question and still messed up. Fail.

lavilevi23
09-15-2012, 09:26 AM
What the hell is that ugly mofo Rondo wearing? Looks like a chicken-pox T-shirt.

netsgiantsyanks
09-15-2012, 10:20 AM
lol "i talked to the lord" awkward also who the hell are thses jibronis hosting this, AJ and Free use to be the ****

you're about 7 years late. aj and free been left 106 and park

Fresno
09-15-2012, 10:27 AM
Who the hell are these clowns hosting the show?

Also is that Kobe's younger brother in the crowd?

RipCity32
09-15-2012, 10:40 AM
Cant get mad with jesus Rondo

sixer04fan
09-15-2012, 11:11 AM
Waste of a thread

Romo2Bryant
09-15-2012, 11:19 AM
I think Rajon Rondo is mad at Ray Allen and Ray Allen is mad at Rajon Rondo.

Oh, really?

Big Zo
09-15-2012, 11:20 AM
The lord told him he was gonna keep losing to the Heat in the playoffs.

KB-Pau-DH2012
09-15-2012, 12:59 PM
What the hell is that ugly mofo Rondo wearing? Looks like a chicken-pox T-shirt.

There ya Heat fans go start insulting players of other teams that has nothing to do with basketball. Typical.

Why don't you like at your boy Bosh (Mr. Jurassic Park).


You Heat fans sometimes. :pity:

HaruSoul
09-15-2012, 01:04 PM
How is that a diss?

DoMeFavors
09-15-2012, 01:16 PM
This is like the only rivalry I like in the NBA because the players actually dont like each other they dont hug before the game and the games actually mean something.

Something the OKC vs Miami series lacked

ThunderousDemon
09-15-2012, 01:21 PM
:down:

TheRunKiller
09-15-2012, 02:19 PM
http://l.yimg.com/k/im_siggErXGnzk_Oe_31gmhgQ8Dvw---y660-x648-q75-n0/omg/us/img/24/47/4841_12858470081.jpg


Well i guess Ray could call Rondo "that girl":laugh2:

Hawkeye15
09-15-2012, 02:21 PM
Perfect example of one of Rondo's faults. He appears to clash with coaches and teammates. Don't really want my so called leader on the floor freezing out my best shooter if I am a coach. This, with his horrendous shooting and sometimes lazy defense, are why there is no chance in hell he ever tops my best PG list.

Dré
09-15-2012, 02:25 PM
...In any given year he's between the 5th and 12th best PG in the league, he should work at getting better, not acting like a six year old having a tantrum.

I agree regarding Rondo's propensity towards outbursts/temper tantrums, but Rondo's numbers don't support him being outside of the top 5 (let alone the top 10) for his position.

Despite paltry shooting #s (career eFG% of .488, FT% of .619, and TS% of .513), Rondo is actually below-average @ attempting field goals and free-throws. Thus, this results in him being below-average @ scoring. But what people don't seem to understand, is that YOU DON'T WANT a poor shooter attempting to score a lot, because it would take said scorer, more field goal attempts to score those points. So one of Rondo's glaring weaknesses (refusal to hoist up shots/go to the free-throw line) becomes one of his strengths, since he's not particularly good @ putting the ball in the bucket. The saying "less is more," applies quite appropriately in his case.

Also, Rondo actually finishes a higher percentage of 2-pt field goals than most people think. He's .497 (almost 50%) on field goals attempted inside 23-ft. Compare to Paul's .497 average (same), Rose's .489 average, and Deron Williams' .492 average. Only Nash and Stockton compare more favorably than Rondo inside 23-ft (and that's because both were/are assassin sharp-shooters). The difference between Rondo and the rest of the pg crop, is that he's a very poor 3-pt shooter. But again, he doesn't shoot very many of them. So he doesn't hurt you there.

He's better than just about anyone not named CP3, Kidd, and Nash (who have all been the best pgs of the last decade); Rondo is right there. To boot, he's currently 1B to CP's 1A, considering Kidd and Nash are very clearly on there way out.

Outside of his poor shooting ability, he does almost everything well. He's a phenomenal per-minute passer (especially of late), a solid rebounder, among a crop of pgs that tend to suck @ it (only he, Kidd, and Westbrook come to mind). He's also great @ forcing turnovers (steals, etc), and thus, for the position he plays, is a good source @ generating his team possessions (charges drawn/securing rebounds/getting steals). He's quite good @ staying out of foul trouble, albeit being a tenacious defender (along with CP). I mean the list goes on.

How exactly is he not at least Top 5? :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
09-15-2012, 02:33 PM
I agree regarding Rondo's propensity towards outbursts/temper tantrums, but Rondo's numbers don't support him being outside of the top 5 (let alone the top 10) for his position.

Despite paltry shooting #s (career eFG% of .488, FT% of .619, and TS% of .513), Rondo is actually below-average @ attempting field goals and free-throws. Thus, this results in him being below-average @ scoring. But what people don't seem to understand, is that YOU DON'T WANT a poor shooter attempting to score a lot, because it would take said scorer, more field goal attempts to score those points. So one of Rondo's glaring weaknesses (refusal to hoist up shots/go to the free-throw line) becomes one of his strengths, since he's not particularly good @ putting the ball in the bucket. The saying "less is more," applies quite appropriately in his case.

Also, Rondo actually finishes a higher percentage of 2-pt field goals than most people think. He's .497 (almost 50%) on field goals attempted inside 23-ft. Compare to Paul's .497 average (same), Rose's .489 average, and Deron Williams' .492 average. Only Nash and Stockton compare more favorably than Rondo inside 23-ft (and that's because both were/are assassin sharp-shooters). The difference between Rondo and the rest of the pg crop, is that he's a very poor 3-pt shooter. But again, he doesn't shoot very many of them. So he doesn't hurt you there.

He's better than just about anyone not named CP3, Kidd, and Nash (who have all been the best pgs of the last decade); Rondo is right there. To boot, he's currently 1B to CP's 1A, considering Kidd and Nash are very clearly on there way out.

Outside of his poor shooting ability, he does almost everything well. He's a phenomenal per-minute passer (especially of late), a solid rebounder, among a crop of pgs that tend to suck @ it (only he, Kidd, and Westbrook come to mind). He's also great @ forcing turnovers (steals, etc), and thus, for the position he plays, is a good source @ generating his team possessions (charges drawn/securing rebounds/getting steals). He's quite good @ staying out of foul trouble, albeit being a tenacious defender (along with CP). I mean the list goes on.

How exactly is he not at least Top 5? :facepalm:

Paul
Westbrook
Nash
Deron
Parker
Rose

all FOR SURE better. Going into this season, I may even take Irving over him. Rondo is now the leader of a sinking ship offensively. The Celtics are still good because of their #1 defense. You see as his stars age, and they can't get it done like they used to, and Rondo becomes more of an offensive option out of need, their offense is going south quickly. I honestly can't wait until he is the main option on his team, so everyone can see that he is a PG who NEEDS scorers and shooters around him to make his game elite.

Dré
09-15-2012, 02:39 PM
^Lol, even if what you said made sense, Westbrook had Durant and Harden. Two very prolific wing scorers, and yet he nets fewer assists than all of those guards you mentioned. :facepalm:

The fact is, there's no correlation between generating assists and having other all-stars around you. Rondo regardless of how bad the Celtics become, will always be a great play-maker. Whether he plays for a winner or league laugher is predicated entirely on whether there's talent at the other key positions. You cannot win games by yourself, no matter how great of a player you are (see LeBron, Jordan before him, Barkley before them, and Magic and Bird prior all of the aforementioned).

Dude, you clearly didn't read what I wrote. I pretty much made it clear CP was better, and that Kidd and Nash had been for their careers. I made clear why Rondo was better than anyone not named those three, bringing facts. What facts have you brought?

superior
09-15-2012, 03:03 PM
^Lol, even if what you said made sense, Westbrook had Durant and Harden. Two very prolific wing scorers, and yet he nets fewer assists than all of those guards you mentioned. :facepalm:

The fact is, there's no correlation between generating assists and having other all-stars around you. Rondo regardless of how bad the Celtics become, will always be a great play-maker. Whether he plays for a winner or league laugher is predicated entirely on whether there's talent at the other key positions. You cannot win games by yourself, no matter how great of a player you are (see LeBron, Jordan before him, Barkley before them, and Magic and Bird prior all of the aforementioned).

Dude, you clearly didn't read what I wrote. I pretty much made it clear CP was better, and that Kidd and Nash had been for their careers. I made clear why Rondo was better than anyone not named those three, bringing facts. What facts have you brought?

the "fact"? lol i think you need to look up the definition of "fact"........and that statement was one of the dumbest ive ever seen on this website

YoungOne
09-15-2012, 03:17 PM
as rondo improves the rondo hate improves, so bring it on you haters :)

YoungOne
09-15-2012, 03:18 PM
Paul
Westbrook
Nash
Deron
Parker
Rose

all FOR SURE better. Going into this season, I may even take Irving over him. Rondo is now the leader of a sinking ship offensively. The Celtics are still good because of their #1 defense. You see as his stars age, and they can't get it done like they used to, and Rondo becomes more of an offensive option out of need, their offense is going south quickly. I honestly can't wait until he is the main option on his team, so everyone can see that he is a PG who NEEDS scorers and shooters around him to make his game elite.

every team needs scorers and shooters to be succesful, so whats your point?

JasonJohnHorn
09-15-2012, 03:23 PM
He didn't really say anything...

Dré
09-15-2012, 03:28 PM
the "fact"? lol i think you need to look up the definition of "fact"........

There isn't (correlation between generating assists and playing with all-stars). :)

There are a slew of articles that attempt to explore this myth by compounding statistics numerically (here's a very interesting one (http://wagesofwins.com/2012/09/07/the-magic-effect-can-you-make-your-team-mates-better/)).

A player does not greatly impact his teammates' ability to score points, nor can one player make another, a better shooter. Magic for example, played with a bevvy of all-stars. But Magic would have been Magic regardless, much like Kareem would have been Kareem. Notice for example that Jabbar's pre-Magic shooting and scoring numbers compare very favorably to his post-Magic shooting and scoring numbers.

Jabbar's eFG% pre-Magic: .559
Jabbar's eFG% post-Magic: .566

Mere percentage points of a difference. Yes, Magic made Jabbar such a better scorer. :rolleyes:


...and that statement was one of the dumbest ive ever seen on this website

Much like I already suggested, bring facts to counter with, before calling anyone's argument dumb. :facepalm:

Bruno
09-15-2012, 03:48 PM
I think Rajon Rondo is mad at Ray Allen and Ray Allen is mad at Rajon Rondo.

you're my favorite poster.

allphillyman359
09-15-2012, 03:55 PM
what the hell is up with her hair?

LakersSaintsLSU
09-15-2012, 04:14 PM
HA! Nuff said

Andrew32
09-15-2012, 05:14 PM
Jabbar's eFG% pre-Magic: .559
Jabbar's eFG% post-Magic: .566

Mere percentage points of a difference. Yes, Magic made Jabbar such a better scorer. :rolleyes:

Jabbar spent the bulk/majority of his best years without Magic.

The fact that he maintained such volume and actually increased his efficiency throughout his older years shows just how much he was helped by his presence.

Kareem is very lucky to have played with the two GOAT PG's...

bagwell368
09-15-2012, 10:39 PM
I agree regarding Rondo's propensity towards outbursts/temper tantrums, but Rondo's numbers don't support him being outside of the top 5 (let alone the top 10) for his position.

Oh they certainly do. One year he made it 5th, a couple of more 7-8-9. and even tossing out his crappy rookie year, he's been in the teens a couple of times. Not counting his rookie year, I've seen at least 60% of his games, and I can read a stat sheet (advanced or regular). And I can see the progressions on his FT% (getting worse), or driving the lane (decreasing).


Despite paltry shooting #s (career eFG% of .488, FT% of .619, and TS% of .513), Rondo is actually below-average @ attempting field goals and free-throws. Thus, this results in him being below-average @ scoring. But what people don't seem to understand, is that YOU DON'T WANT a poor shooter attempting to score a lot, because it would take said scorer, more field goal attempts to score those points. So one of Rondo's glaring weaknesses (refusal to hoist up shots/go to the free-throw line) becomes one of his strengths, since he's not particularly good @ putting the ball in the bucket. The saying "less is more," applies quite appropriately in his case.

Oh I understand well that you don't want a bad shooter shooting. BTW with the Celts being one of the worst rebounding teams in the league his misses are magnified into turnovers much more than the average PG that has his scoring averages/shooting att's.


Also, Rondo actually finishes a higher percentage of 2-pt field goals than most people think. He's .497 (almost 50%) on field goals attempted inside 23-ft.

Sure thing, but if you break it down within that, he's clearly a crappy shooter outside of 12'. His lay-ups hide that to the uninitiated.


Compare to Paul's .497 average (same), Rose's .489 average, and Deron Williams' .492 average. Only Nash and Stockton compare more favorably than Rondo inside 23-ft (and that's because both were/are assassin sharp-shooters). The difference between Rondo and the rest of the pg crop, is that he's a very poor 3-pt shooter. But again, he doesn't shoot very many of them. So he doesn't hurt you there.

Sorry, you need to break down the distances, Paul is a vastly better shooter at further distances.

You also seem to ignore the fact that w/ Rondo playing like a PG version of Rodman, it puts great pressure on the other 4 players to score. Not so hard with 3 HOF'ers. But what happens when they fade away?


He's better than just about anyone not named CP3, Kidd, and Nash (who have all been the best pgs of the last decade); Rondo is right there. To boot, he's currently 1B to CP's 1A, considering Kidd and Nash are very clearly on there way out.

This is an opinion unsupported by the data and viewing I have done.


Outside of his poor shooting ability, he does almost everything well. He's a phenomenal per-minute passer (especially of late), a solid rebounder, among a crop of pgs that tend to suck @ it (only he, Kidd, and Westbrook come to mind). He's also great @ forcing turnovers (steals, etc), and thus, for the position he plays, is a good source @ generating his team possessions (charges drawn/securing rebounds/getting steals). He's quite good @ staying out of foul trouble, albeit being a tenacious defender (along with CP). I mean the list goes on.

How exactly is he not at least Top 5?

You left out that Rondo gambles on D too much to get his steals and his steal rate has been decreasing these past couple of years.

Did you want to defend his 14 game brain fart after Perkins was dealt?

Or his suspensions last year?

I'll try and dig up my list which I put out sometime maybe a year ago.

3 years ago I had him going to the HOF, but I'm afraid his idiocy as a teammate and his down trending stats have taken a big toll on my opinion of him.

Hawkeye15
09-16-2012, 05:47 PM
^Lol, even if what you said made sense, Westbrook had Durant and Harden. Two very prolific wing scorers, and yet he nets fewer assists than all of those guards you mentioned. :facepalm:


I have read every argument you Rondo fans can come up with. Rondo is going to average assists on a team full of offensive players, especially when he refuses to shoot, which is why as his stars age and can't do what they did, and the pressure falls on Rondo to create more offense, the Celtics offense continues to get worse.

Facepalm away. Attempting to use help is laughable, considering Rondo has had more scoring help than any PG in the last 4 seasons.

Hawkeye15
09-16-2012, 05:48 PM
every team needs scorers and shooters to be succesful, so whats your point?

Not every team's PG is as dependent on having them. That has always been the point with Rondo. Take away the PG's scorers I listed above Rondo, and that team still has a chance of being successful. I don't buy Rondo's team would be successful if he is needed to be their primary scoring option for a lengthly period of time.

TheRunKiller
09-16-2012, 06:02 PM
I can't believe Rondo has not worked on his jump shot. he's the worst offensive player ive seen. IF he worked on his jumper and it was good then yeah maybe a top 5 pg but because of that hell no. Boston would be soooo much better if he was a threat to score

Iron24th
09-16-2012, 06:15 PM
Both allen and rondo are A-holes.

TheRunKiller
09-16-2012, 06:16 PM
Both allen and rondo are A-holes.

yeah lakers are A holes for getting howard & nash lol

Dré
09-16-2012, 07:10 PM
Oh I understand well that you don't want a bad shooter shooting. BTW with the Celts being one of the worst rebounding teams in the league his misses are magnified into turnovers much more than the average PG that has his scoring averages/shooting att's.

Lol, a player's overall team being anemic @ generating rebounds doesn't impact whether that one player (particularly one as small as Rondo) is any more costly to his team than a player similarly prone to poor shooting (e.g., Derrick Rose, John Wall, Russell Westbrook, and yes, even Deron Williams last season―though I'll assume it was an aberration as he's never been that bad a shooter, other than his rookie year), because the latter player may play on a team that's overall better @ generating possessions. That's just the way the cookie crumbles, blame Celtics' management for having been poor assessors of talent post-acquisition of Allen/Garnett. I mean Perkins for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic? Albeit, Perkins was never a great or even good center (he was merely serviceable). But to trade a mediocre center for two very bad players?

The fact that Joakim Noah and the rest of that front line help secure possessions for that Bulls squad, doesn't take away that Rose's poor decision making on offense is a liability regardless. At least Rondo has the sense not to force the issue which = smart if you ask me.


Sure thing, but if you break it down within that, he's clearly a crappy shooter outside of 12'. His lay-ups hide that to the uninitiated.

Technically so is 'Bron. The fact that he's built like a tank and is a great finisher 10-ft in, doesn't take away from his efficiency. Don't blame a smart player for sticking to their strengths. This was one of the reasons LBJ finished the season with gaudy shooting percentages. Amongst wing players, only Durant, Harden, and Nash finished with higher TS percentages. Will either Bron or Rondo ever shoot the ball like those guys? Probably not? but if they're smart enough to take easy buckets, why count it against them? Same goes for Wade (i.e., a poor jump-shooter, but a very good finisher).


Sorry, you need to break down the distances, Paul is a vastly better shooter at further distances.

Lol, ofc Paul is a better shooter. Though I don't see either ever being Nash or Stockton. Doesn't matter though, efficiency is what counts. Rondo could stand to improve even on his attempts @ or near the rim, but he's still rather effective. If he could just learn to do like Bron and Wade, and stick to taking all of his shots from inside 15-ft, it would likely do wonders for his shooting averages.


You also seem to ignore the fact that w/ Rondo playing like a PG version of Rodman it puts great pressure on the other 4 players to score. Not so hard with 3 HOF'ers. But what happens when they fade away?

Rodman was a great player. ;) Despite all his scoring woes, he was able to impact the game in other ways. E.g., his great rebounding, was great @ keeping the ball (wasn't particularly turnover prone), and for all his scoring deficiencies, was a solid shooter early on (obviously he took a majority of his shots from inside). Rondo is a little similar in that he'll likely never be a great scorer, even were his shooting percentages to heighten as a result of playing more like Wade. But he impacts the game in other ways (as per datum). It will be up to the front office to surround Rondo with guys like Dudley, Harden, Ginobili, etc (great wing scorers) in order for the Celtics to remain relevant. Furthermore, even if Rondo became a better scorer/more efficient shooter, you'd still need to surround him with other good/great players in order for the team to be viable for contention. No one player can carry his team on his own. It's five-on-five, not one-on-one.


This is an opinion unsupported by the data and viewing I have done.

Like I said, your theory is merely predicated on his poor shooting numbers from the field/free-throw line (of which he doesn't take many of any ways), and scoring difficulties. Not much else. If one were to look @ everything else he does, Rondo is easily better than most other pgs @ doing it (other than turns, that's another glaring hole he needs to fix).


You left out that Rondo gambles on D too much to get his steals and his steal rate has been decreasing these past couple of years.

Most good ball thieves have a tendency to make gambles on occasion. Not all steals come from exerting pressure on the ball handler. Having a good eye for playing/reading the passing lanes is part of what makes a good defender. Holding this against someone like CP or Rondo, would be like holding having long limbs against a good paint defender (e.g., Howard, Wallace, and Mutombo and Robinson before them). You just can't do it.

Getting steals was part of what made Kidd such a good defender when he was younger, and what still makes him a genuine threat to this day.

Btw, Rondo's consistently averaged over or very nearly 3.0 steals/48 mins, except for last season. Considering he's spent the better bulk of his career picking pockets with the best of them, I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt (considering I'm sure you'd make the same argument for Williams' shooting numbers last season). An abberation does not a career make. Not to mention that Rondo was still a great ball-thief, despite the obvious decline.


Did you want to defend his 14 game brain fart after Perkins was dealt?

Or his suspensions last year?

Seriously? This notwithstanding the three games he missed last season (one in the post-season).

Dré
09-16-2012, 07:38 PM
Facepalm away. Attempting to use help is laughable, considering Rondo has had more scoring help than any PG in the last 4 seasons.

I'm going to be as simplistic as possible.

Durant-Harden-Ibaka combined to average 53.9 points per game on 60.9 true shooting, compared to Allen-Garnett-Pierce's 49.4 points per game on 57.5 true shooting.

Not only did OKC's triumvirate average more points on higher shooting, Boston's aging Big 3 also combined to miss 31 games, compared to Durant-Harden-Ibaka who combined for 4. :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
09-16-2012, 07:48 PM
I'm going to be as simplistic as possible.

That is what I have been doing with you, but thank you for doing so, I was getting confused...


Durant-Harden-Ibaka combined to average 53.9 points per game on 60.9 true shooting, compared to Allen-Garnett-Pierce's 49.4 points per game on 57.5 true shooting.

Uh, so you just showed me Westy's 2011-12 help was more efficient than Rondo's aged core? I already knew that, and I don't see what point you are proving other than the OKC roster was better equipped offensively, we all know that. That being said, the Celtics roster since Rondo suddenly emerged into a great PG has been stacked compared to most the NBA. As Rondo's elite offensive help aged, his teams offensive efficiency dropped. Rondo has proven incapable of running a great offense minus his scorers. He also froze out his best shooter. That is a negative on him.


Not only did OKC's triumvirate average more points on higher shooting, Boston's aging Big 3 also combined to miss 31 games, compared to Durant-Harden-Ibaka who combined for 4. :facepalm:

See above. I don't take Rondo over 6-7 other PG's if I need a guy to start a team. He is a great compliment to capable offensive players, he isn't the guy you start with.

bagwell368
09-16-2012, 09:48 PM
Lol, a player's overall team being anemic @ generating rebounds doesn't impact whether that one player (particularly one as small as Rondo) is any more costly to his team than a player similarly prone to poor shooting (e.g., Derrick Rose, John Wall, Russell Westbrook, and yes, even Deron Williams last season―though I'll assume it was an aberration as he's never been that bad a shooter, other than his rookie year), because the latter player may play on a team that's overall better @ generating possessions. That's just the way the cookie crumbles, blame Celtics' management for having been poor assessors of talent post-acquisition of Allen/Garnett. I mean Perkins for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic? Albeit, Perkins was never a great or even good center (he was merely serviceable). But to trade a mediocre center for two very bad players?

Rubbish on your claim that poor shooters on poor rebounding teams not being a major problem. The Celts destroyed the Thunder in that deal BTW, it's not even close. I've written a few dozen pieces on it, go search them out. Perkins is a disaster for the Thunder.


Technically so is 'Bron. The fact that he's built like a tank and is a great finisher 10-ft in, doesn't take away from his efficiency. Don't blame a smart player for sticking to their strengths.

Hunh? There is no comparison between Rondo and LBJ. Rondo passes so much because that's the only offensive thing he does that has value.


Lol, ofc Paul is a better shooter. Though I don't see either ever being Nash or Stockton. Doesn't matter though, efficiency is what counts. Rondo could stand to improve even on his attempts @ or near the rim, but he's still rather effective. If he could just learn to do like Bron and Wade, and stick to taking all of his shots from inside 15-ft, it would likely do wonders for his shooting averages.

Prove Paul is an LOL compared to Rondo? FT shooting? Er... 3 point shooting? Outside of 12 feet? You are losing credibility.


Rodman was a great player. ;) Despite all his scoring woes, he was able to impact the game in other ways. E.g., his great rebounding, was great @ keeping the ball (wasn't particularly turnover prone), and for all his scoring deficiencies, was a solid shooter early on (obviously he took a majority of his shots from inside). Rondo is a little similar in that he'll likely never be a great scorer, even were his shooting percentages to heighten as a result of playing more like Wade. But he impacts the game in other ways (as per datum). It will be up to the front office to surround Rondo with guys like Dudley, Harden, Ginobili, etc (great wing scorers) in order for the Celtics to remain relevant. Furthermore, even if Rondo became a better scorer/more efficient shooter, you'd still need to surround him with other good/great players in order for the team to be viable for contention. No one player can carry his team on his own. It's five-on-five, not one-on-one.

Gobbledegook.


Like I said, your theory is merely predicated on his poor shooting numbers from the field/free-throw line (of which he doesn't take many of any ways), and scoring difficulties. Not much else. If one were to look @ everything else he does, Rondo is easily better than most other pgs @ doing it (other than turns, that's another glaring hole he needs to fix).

His steals are decreasing. His Asst/TO rates are not elite. He tries to get too much offensive glass when the plan calls for him to go back on D, and that causes issues. His misses on both FT and FG lead to changes in possession and points. He's emotionally unstable. He doesn't listen to Doc. He alienates his teammates.


Most good ball thieves have a tendency to make gambles on occasion. Not all steals come from exerting pressure on the ball handler. Having a good eye for playing/reading the passing lanes is part of what makes a good defender. Holding this against someone like CP or Rondo, would be like holding having long limbs against a good paint defender (e.g., Howard, Wallace, and Mutombo and Robinson before them). You just can't do it.

I grew up watch Havlicek and Bird, I don't need a lecture on sitting on passing lanes.


Seriously? This notwithstanding the three games he missed last season (one in the post-season).

HE also missed games due to injury, an event that is becoming more common for him.

naps
09-16-2012, 10:05 PM
I can't believe Rondo has not worked on his jump shot. he's the worst offensive player ive seen. IF he worked on his jumper and it was good then yeah maybe a top 5 pg but because of that hell no. Boston would be soooo much better if he was a threat to score

If he had a good jump shot Chris Paul wouldn't be the hands down best point guard in the league. Rondo with a killer jumper is :drool: worthy.

charlies_angels
09-17-2012, 08:16 AM
Well this is a bit funny, to be honest.

Iron24th
09-17-2012, 08:24 AM
yeah lakers are A holes for getting howard & nash lol

:rimshot:

chi-townlove1
09-17-2012, 09:33 AM
I think Rajon Rondo is mad at Ray Allen and Ray Allen is mad at Rajon Rondo.


:laugh: woulda never guessed!!

Dré
09-17-2012, 04:13 PM
Rubbish on your claim that poor shooters on poor rebounding teams not being a major problem. The Celts destroyed the Thunder in that deal BTW, it's not even close. I've written a few dozen pieces on it, go search them out. Perkins is a disaster for the Thunder.

Wow, just wow... I'm not making a claim that poor shooters on poor rebounding teams aren't a problem. I'm making the case that Rondo is not any worse for it, than Rose or Westbrook who were on solid or even great rebounding teams. I'll put it another way, Rondo does not cost his team more than Rose or Westbrook. Actually, he costs his team less, by not really attempting too many shots. The Bulls or Thunder would actually be much better served having Rondo, because Rondo does not attempt too many field goals (since like Rose and Westbrook, he's such an inefficient scorer) which means there would be fewer misses (by their pg) to corral. The ball rather, could have gone to more efficient shooters, the Bulls for example had Asik, Brewer, Boozer, Korver, and Noah, who all shot it @ a higher clip (I'm talking the last two seasons). And the Thunder have a three-headed monster called Durant-Harden-Ibaka. As important as rebounding is, nothing trumps offensive efficiency.


Hunh? There is no comparison between Rondo and LBJ. Rondo passes so much because that's the only offensive thing he does that has value.

I was comparing the fact that LeBron is no Allen, Dudley, Ginobili, Harden, Miller (Mike) etc. He's not a sharp shooter. The reason LeBron shoots such a high percentage from the floor, is because a significant portion of his shots, are taken near the rim. Roughly 41% of his shot attempts were taken from close range in 2012, which isn't a far cry from his career averages (actually, 40% of his shot attempts were from close range, between 2006 and 2011). Only 12% of his field-goals were taken from 23-ft out, in 2012. Which clearly shows us he feasted on mid-range/close range shots. I'm not knocking him for that, I'm commending him for it. If Rondo can figure this out, he'll be better served. He's not LeBron (Rondo only capitalized on 60% of his attempts @ the rim), but he's still solid, and is clearly better served attempting fewer mid-range shots, and particularly, anything outside the arc.


Prove Paul is an LOL compared to Rondo? FT shooting? Er... 3 point shooting? Outside of 12 feet? You are losing credibility.

I'm laughing out loud @ the fact that it's obvious CP3 is a better all-around shooter. I'm saying the net outcome from 2-pt range is the same for both. They both knock down roughly 50% of their 2-pt attempts for their careers.


Gobbledegook.

Seriously? Who's losing credibility now?


His steals are decreasing...

Lol, his /48 min averages below:

06-07: 3.4 (career high)
07-08: 2.7
08-09: 2.7
09-10: 3.1
10-11: 2.8
11-12: 2.3 (career low)

If we look @ his overall career, only last season could be considered a sign of decline. Other than that, he's been pretty consistent @ getting 2.5+ steals (/48 ofc) annually. Unless you're willing to suggest Williams' shooting averages are signs of decline (after only one statistical aberration), then you really have no argument here.


...His Asst/TO rates are not elite...

Among guards that played 50 or more games in 2012, Rondo ranked behind Chris Paul, Jose Calderon (no surprise @ seeing those two there), and Mike Conley (he was fourth among guards). Actually, since 08, amongst guards with roughly 60 or more games played, he's consistently ranked in the top 5 (CP unfortunately missed a good chunk of the 09-10 season).


...He tries to get too much offensive glass when the plan calls for him to go back on D, and that causes issues...

Lol, Celtics are one of the best squads at defending against teams that get out on transition (or the fast break).


...His misses on both FT and FG lead to changes in possession and points...

Naturally some of his missed FGs and FTs lead to changes in possession, but the fact remains that the Celts would be even worse off with someone like Rose and Westbrook, neither of which seem too nonplussed @ how many shots they may brick.

Whereas Rondo compliments the Bulls/Thunder better than the former two (fewer shots bricked by their pg = more shots for their efficient scorers ;)).


...He's emotionally unstable. He doesn't listen to Doc. He alienates his teammates.

Now you're just grasping @ straws.


HE also missed games due to injury, an event that is becoming more common for him.

He's missed 39 games out of a possible 492. I don't know whether you've noticed, but Greg Oden, who's been in the league nearly as long (5 seasons to Rondo's 6), has played the equivalent of one full season.

Dré
09-17-2012, 05:19 PM
...Uh, so you just showed me Westy's 2011-12 help was more efficient than Rondo's aged core?

Your initial point was that Rondo had miraculously transformed himself into an elite player merely because of the players he played with. I was pointing out that even if we went by this inherently flawed logic, Westbrook plays alongside Durant, Harden, and Ibaka. All three @ this stage are better than the core of grizzled veterans Rondo played alongside.


I already knew that, and I don't see what point you are proving other than the OKC roster was better equipped offensively, we all know that.

So how is Westbrook better? Maybe @ scoring the ball inefficiently.


That being said, the Celtics roster since Rondo suddenly emerged into a great PG has been stacked compared to most the NBA.

Really? How so? Allen, Garnett, and Pierce have long seen better days, and the Celts' depth was never what it's cracked up to be (Stiemsma was a good pick up, though they let him walk, which was a bad move). Not denying they're productive, but it's not like Kidd, Magic, Nash, Stockton, etc, haven't played alongside similarly productive players.


As Rondo's elite offensive help aged, his teams offensive efficiency dropped.

Dude what are you talking about? What does a TEAM's offensive efficiency have to do with ONE LONE INDIVIDUAL. That's not on the individual, but on the TEAM AS A WHOLE. This would be like blaming Rondo for why the team is so bad @ rebounding. Wtf?


Rondo has proven incapable of running a great offense minus his scorers. He also froze out his best shooter. That is a negative on him.

Whatever dude, you haven't brought one single fact to this discussion.


See above. I don't take Rondo over 6-7 other PG's if I need a guy to start a team. He is a great compliment to capable offensive players, he isn't the guy you start with.

I'm not really looking for my smallest guy to score anyways. So it's very likely I look to have efficient sharp-shooters to go around (positions two through three, guys like Harden, Ginobili, Jared Dudley, etc), and solid low-post options (e.g., Al Horford, Dwight Howard, Tyson Chandler, etc). Wouldn't hurt to have a PF that can space the floor too, e.g., Kevin Garnett, Kevin Love, Dirk Nowitzki, etc. See unlike you, I know there's no way for my smallest guy to carry a team. Dang, not even 'Bron, who's built like a tank, could do it on his own.

nykallday7
09-17-2012, 05:56 PM
I'm sick and tired of watching Rondo go beserk in National TV games and being labeled the best PG in the NBA when an most Tuesday nights against meh teams he mails it in.

His FT% is also getting worse, and he has refused to practice the way Doc wanted him too. I guess he's too damn big for his Coach.

He's an accident waiting to happen. He's also not a leader. He's not fit to wear the mantle that KG/PP/Cowens/Havlicek/Russell wore.

In any given year he's between the 5th and 12th best PG in the league, he should work at getting better, not acting like a six year old having a tantrum.

the grass is always greener?

you could trade rondo to NY if you want.

nykallday7
09-17-2012, 05:59 PM
There ya Heat fans go start insulting players of other teams that has nothing to do with basketball. Typical.

Why don't you like at your boy Bosh (Mr. Jurassic Park).


You Heat fans sometimes. :pity:

not to mention that in the locker room celebration after the finals, ms. bosh got down on his knees and resumed the position we all know he holds down in south beach.

hes still more important than wade is to the team now. ha.

wades probably the most overrated player in the nba today.

team full of flopping crybabies with an even worse fanbase.

ATX
09-17-2012, 06:12 PM
not to mention that in the locker room celebration after the finals, ms. bosh got down on his knees and resumed the position we all know he holds down in south beach.

hes still more important than wade is to the team now. ha.

wades probably the most overrated player in the nba today.

team full of flopping crybabies with an even worse fanbase.

What a bunch of crap. :facepalm:

CavsYanksDuke
09-17-2012, 06:12 PM
I thought Jesus Shuttlesworth WAS the Lord...

LaLa_Land
09-17-2012, 06:20 PM
Anyone who bashes Rondo's abilities is 100% special.

He is a triple-double machine, an elite defender, an elite passer, an an elite playmaker in general. His ONLY downside is his shooting. Why didn't anyone cry about Allen leaving?...because he's expendable. Rondo is utterly irreplaceable. KG, who i think is one of (if not the best) leaders in the game absolutely LOVES Rajon.

I have him as the 2nd best PG in the league behind Paul.

KingPosey
09-17-2012, 06:27 PM
I think Rajon Rondo is mad at Ray Allen and Ray Allen is mad at Rajon Rondo.

Dang, maybe it is time to hang em up Dougie, 5 pages and no one acknowledged your post! Maybe its because it used to look so effortless, and thats where the gold was. Now, it almost feels like you sit there for several minutes trying to post something that looks like you werent trying.

You can get it back though! Just sit there concentrating and keep thinking of the perfect thing to make it look like you dont think.

KingPosey
09-17-2012, 06:34 PM
I'm going to be as simplistic as possible.

Durant-Harden-Ibaka combined to average 53.9 points per game on 60.9 true shooting, compared to Allen-Garnett-Pierce's 49.4 points per game on 57.5 true shooting.

Not only did OKC's triumvirate average more points on higher shooting, Boston's aging Big 3 also combined to miss 31 games, compared to Durant-Harden-Ibaka who combined for 4. :facepalm:

Did you go off of "pace stats" and see what the %s of total points scored for the teams were? SInce Boston plays a ton of D and slows the game down and makes it a possession game, those 49.4 might be a much higher part of the whole than the 53.9

But I have no dog in this fight.

jimm120
09-17-2012, 07:02 PM
Not sure where the diss was. The interviewer said Jesus first. Sounds like Rondo was simply playing with him.

Jesus Shuttlesworth


The show must go on....

...glad to see another Tenacious D fan.

WAYNEBO
09-17-2012, 07:21 PM
I think Rajon Rondo is mad at Ray Allen and Ray Allen is mad at Rajon Rondo.

Who/what is this new TOOL that has been cropping up on these forums??

sports4life1989
09-17-2012, 07:46 PM
Wow, just wow... I'm not making a claim that poor shooters on poor rebounding teams aren't a problem. I'm making the case that Rondo is not any worse for it, than Rose or Westbrook who were on solid or even great rebounding teams. I'll put it another way, Rondo does not cost his team more than Rose or Westbrook. Actually, he costs his team less, by not really attempting too many shots. The Bulls or Thunder would actually be much better served having Rondo, because Rondo does not attempt too many field goals (since like Rose and Westbrook, he's such an inefficient scorer) which means there would be fewer misses (by their pg) to corral. The ball rather, could have gone to more efficient shooters, the Bulls for example had Asik, Brewer, Boozer, Korver, and Noah, who all shot it @ a higher clip (I'm talking the last two seasons). And the Thunder have a three-headed monster called Durant-Harden-Ibaka. As important as rebounding is, nothing trumps offensive efficiency.

:facepalm: So, I'm guessing you go off of stats without ever watching a game right? Also, you do realize Rose has one of the better jumpers in the game right? He just happens to fall in love with the 3 game which he shouldn't. Everything you put is opinionated on just what you see on the stat sheet. I hope you know something about basketball that your teams does effect you're stats.

JordansBulls
09-17-2012, 08:24 PM
http://promagazine.info/interviews/rajon-rondo-on-106-park/

Skip to the 2:30 mark of the interview.

Host: Have you talked to Jesus? Have you talked to Ray Allen, man?
Rondo: Oh, that guy....
Host: Ohh....
Rondo: I talk to the Lord.
Host: You say you what?
Rondo: To the Lord.
Host: Oh...We'll just leave it at that
*awkward silence*

They really do hate each other. :laugh2:

I thought Ray Allen disliked how much KG cussed?

bagwell368
09-18-2012, 06:51 AM
I'm making the case that Rondo is not any worse for it, than Rose or Westbrook who were on solid or even great rebounding teams. I'll put it another way, Rondo does not cost his team more than Rose or Westbrook.

If you just count FG's it's not that far off. But since FT's are also a form of shooting and Rondo is much worse than those two are - AND change of possession to the defending team in a FT situation is much greater than an average FG.... wow, just wow...


Actually, he costs his team less, by not really attempting too many shots. The Bulls or Thunder would actually be much better served having Rondo, because Rondo does not attempt too many field goals (since like Rose and Westbrook, he's such an inefficient scorer) which means there would be fewer misses (by their pg) to corral. The ball rather, could have gone to more efficient shooters, the Bulls for example had Asik, Brewer, Boozer, Korver, and Noah, who all shot it @ a higher clip (I'm talking the last two seasons). And the Thunder have a three-headed monster called Durant-Harden-Ibaka. As important as rebounding is, nothing trumps offensive efficiency.

I've argued for two years that Westbrook would be better on the Celts (who need scoring and have (or had) good passing outside of Rondo. The problem with Rondo is that his true shooting efficiency sucks and his volume of scoring points means that those two other teams need to find scoring elsewhere and it's not clear that they have it. After PP and KG are gone, the Celts will need scorers even if they don't have the best efficiency - instead they'll have Rondo who doesn't score much and has piss poor efficiency, how is that better?


Which clearly shows us he (LBJ) feasted on mid-range/close range shots. I'm not knocking him for that, I'm commending him for it. If Rondo can figure this out, he'll be better served. He's not LeBron (Rondo only capitalized on 60% of his attempts @ the rim), but he's still solid, and is clearly better served attempting fewer mid-range shots, and particularly, anything outside the arc.

Rondo is taking less shots inside because he gets crushed when he does. His FT% is so poor that any defender with a foul to give will drive him into the floor - which so often leads to a change of possession and 1 or 0 points surrendered. He's small and slight and can't take that pounding. so your idea is stillborn in the real world.


I'm laughing out loud @ the fact that it's obvious CP3 is a better all-around shooter. I'm saying the net outcome from 2-pt range is the same for both. They both knock down roughly 50% of their 2-pt attempts for their careers.

Obviously. But the net effect is nothing the same. CP3 draws defense, and draws it away from the basket. He's clearly a serious threat from the 3 unlike Rondo whom teams actually back away from in the hopes he'll launch one. How someone can come up with this after just talking about offensive efficiency is quite beyond the pale. What's the WS/48, eFG, and other advanced stats say?


Seriously? Who's losing credibility now?

Well since your points are clanging weakly to the ground, I guess it would be you.


If we look @ his overall career, only last season could be considered a sign of decline.

Fine, my bad - one year not two. I must actually have been thinking about his:



TOV% which these last two years are the worst of his career.
ORtg which was the lowest these last two years since his rookie year.
WS/48 which is way down from the prior 3 years.
eFG and TS% the last two years which were worst of his career since his rookie year.


Sometimes it's hard to keep all his declining stats straight.


Lol, Celtics are one of the best squads at defending against teams that get out on transition (or the fast break).

Yes, which is one of the reasons the offensive rebounding is so bad. That sort of system requires high efficiency shooting, which Rondo is not capable of, and it always requires players to follow the rules. Meanwhile Rondo at times swoops towards the offensive glass sometimes from above the paint. No wonder Doc has labeled him "uncoachable".


He's missed 39 games out of a possible 492. I don't know whether you've noticed, but Greg Oden, who's been in the league nearly as long (5 seasons to Rondo's 6), has played the equivalent of one full season.

We are talking Rondo, not Oden. Rondo is missing more games his last two years 68/82 and 53/66 played. How Rondo got 10th last year in MVP voting after missing 20% of the season I'm not quite sure. He also "emotionally" missed 14 games in 2010-2011 after Perkins deal. He pouted the Celts right out of the top seed over his buddy getting dealt.

And speaking of Perkins that trade was better for the Celts by far. Go ahead and make your case.