PDA

View Full Version : Edwin Encarnacion appreciation



Halladay
09-14-2012, 09:50 AM
The man has quietly been putting up this line-

40 HR .279 BA .946 OPS 151 OPS+ 4.4 WAR

All this with the "protection" of Bautista being out of the lineup a good chunk of the season.

TrueYankee
09-14-2012, 10:06 AM
Great player, great season

Valleyfella
09-14-2012, 10:14 AM
In a year when anything that could go wrong, did go wrong, he's been the sole bright spot. They'd be the Astros of the AL without him.

Stress
09-14-2012, 10:26 AM
great diamond in the rough story. im happy for him. he really worked hard in the off-season.
came in this year on a one-year contract.finishing the year with a 3-year extension.
jays lost bautista and they still might have someone finish 1st in hr's in the mlb.

im glad someone made this thread. he doesn't get enough recognition.

yanks19791024
09-14-2012, 10:28 AM
Cough Cough HGH or JUICE, JMO!!!!!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/encared01.shtml his stats

ReJo
09-14-2012, 10:39 AM
He got better stuff than Melky

IndiansFan337
09-14-2012, 10:43 AM
He was having a better season than Bautista when both were healthy. He has finally put it all together. I think having him DH more often and play in the field less often may have helped him concentrate on his offense. He was error-prone at 3B and in the past he likely took some of those miscues to the plate with him.

BSplaya2121
09-14-2012, 10:48 AM
Cough Cough HGH or JUICE, JMO!!!!!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/encared01.shtml his stats

Its very fishy if you ask me, he definitely has talent, but where is this out of no where? He is definitly a .275 hitter as he was last year but in the same amount of AB's as last year he had 23 less home runs? 57 less rbi's? Idk i mean he is innocent until proven guilty, but something doesnt add up

Halladay
09-14-2012, 11:05 AM
Haha HGH you guys never stop

StryderSox
09-14-2012, 11:07 AM
Maybe the guy dressed in the white suit that tips off pitches is back? :)

Tmath
09-14-2012, 11:57 AM
He worked with Cano's hitting coach in the offseason and it payed off.

You can see last season he had his hands higher and didn't keep both hands on the bat when following through.

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18499859&c_id=mlb

This season he has lowered his hands and keeps two hands on the bat.

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=24092991&c_id=mlb

FlakeyFool
09-14-2012, 12:05 PM
Hes always had power and potential. Hes finally put it all together

Raps08-09 Champ
09-14-2012, 12:18 PM
Its very fishy if you ask me, he definitely has talent, but where is this out of no where? He is definitly a .275 hitter as he was last year but in the same amount of AB's as last year he had 23 less home runs? 57 less rbi's? Idk i mean he is innocent until proven guilty, but something doesnt add up

He definitely has the power for 40 HRS. It's 14 off from when he got 26, and in that season, he also played 3B, which affected his game.

KingPosey
09-14-2012, 12:22 PM
he is still crushing the ball, but he has been much less effective the last 2 months JB has been out.

the_jon
09-14-2012, 12:28 PM
Cough Cough HGH or JUICE, JMO!!!!!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/encared01.shtml his stats
Scale his abs from 2010 and he would be hitting almost as many homers as he did this year.

infernoscurse
09-14-2012, 12:35 PM
thank you Edwin Encarnación for everything you have done for the game, I take my time to appreciate your efforts and formally thank you in this forum.

Sincerely

- infernoscurse

the_jon
09-14-2012, 12:37 PM
Wish he'd stop doing that damn chicken wing thing everytime he hits a home run.

Rain City
09-14-2012, 12:52 PM
hes dangerous, all those hrs and rbis, and doesnt k much

Havoc Wreaker
09-14-2012, 12:53 PM
I would be surprised if he's not using something. This is just ridiculous

Kelly Gruber
09-14-2012, 12:55 PM
He's always had power (maybe actually look at his stats?), but this year he has really dialed in and not missed when he gets his pitches. Be the first to admit I didn't like the guy a year ago. The only positive spot of the season for Jays' fans now.

B-Ray
09-14-2012, 01:07 PM
Wish he'd stop doing that damn chicken wing thing everytime he hits a home run.

He's trying to get sponsored by Wild Wing.

thrice4
09-14-2012, 01:25 PM
He's got a good looking swing on em and I hope he's clean.

lajoie
09-14-2012, 01:33 PM
Funny how Jays fans a year ago were begging for the team to get rid of this guy even for a bag of peanuts

2009mvp
09-14-2012, 01:47 PM
Jays hit the baseball lottery twice in less than 5 years turning replacement level-ish late 20's players into stars. And yet they still stink :sigh:

the_jon
09-14-2012, 01:52 PM
Jays hit the baseball lottery twice in less than 5 years turning replacement level-ish late 20's players into stars. And yet they still stink :sigh:
Just like when we had the best pitcher in baseball for 10 seasons and still sucked :sigh:

LongWayFromHome
09-14-2012, 02:04 PM
Great player, great season

1/2 right

Mr. LA
09-14-2012, 02:10 PM
In before close
/thread
move to bluejays forum
the mlb doesnt care up Edwin buddy! Jays suck!!!!!!
who cares!!!

2009mvp
09-14-2012, 02:27 PM
:laugh2: Usually you don't keep typing after the "/thread" part.

MetsFanatic19
09-14-2012, 02:29 PM
He's having a great season. Great for him. He has had literally no effect on the Mets, so I'm not going to appreciate what he's done, but again, great season.

MetsFanatic19
09-14-2012, 02:32 PM
:laugh2: Usually you don't keep typing after the "/thread" part.

/Reopen the thread for a short while so I can finish my rant!

koreancabbage
09-14-2012, 03:05 PM
Funny how Jays fans a year ago were begging for the team to get rid of this guy even for a bag of peanuts

if you had him on your team you would say the same thing.

MetsFanatic19
09-14-2012, 03:08 PM
Funny how Jays fans a year ago were begging for the team to get rid of this guy even for a bag of peanuts

I'm sure they'd be able to get at least two bags of peanuts for him now.

infernoscurse
09-14-2012, 03:25 PM
wake me up when he reaches 10th all time in hits like a true great playa! otherwise foget about it

Jeffy25
09-14-2012, 03:31 PM
I don't understand why Bautista was assumed of doing roids when he broke out, but nobody says anything about E5.

He was literally the worst player on the ball diamond within the last 18 months.


I am not saying he took anything. In fact, I believe he has done the same thing as Bautista, a change in approach, coupled with a hitting coach that helps.

I'm just surprised we aren't seeing those speculatory threads like we did with Bautista

infernoscurse
09-14-2012, 03:32 PM
i think they are all on something , even jeter

2009mvp
09-14-2012, 03:41 PM
I don't understand why Bautista was assumed of doing roids when he broke out, but nobody says anything about E5.

He was literally the worst player on the ball diamond within the last 18 months.


I am not saying he took anything. In fact, I believe he has done the same thing as Bautista, a change in approach, coupled with a hitting coach that helps.

I'm just surprised we aren't seeing those speculatory threads like we did with Bautista

I have no idea what you're using to justify that, but I can't imagine any metric that would have him as even the worst player in the Jays infield at any point within the last 18 months.

joshhorvath
09-14-2012, 04:06 PM
So you think EE took HGH, I'm pretty sure the MLB was thinking that too, tested him probably a good hundred times. And EE just loves to piss in that testing cup everytime, just to prove to people that his 40HR season didn't come from roofs, but rather from hard work and determination :)

StryderSox
09-14-2012, 04:10 PM
So you think EE took HGH, I'm pretty sure the MLB was thinking that too, tested him probably a good hundred times. And EE just loves to piss in that testing cup everytime, just to prove to people that his 40HR season didn't come from roofs, but rather from hard work and determination :)

I am assuming from your apparent inside knowledge of this that you were the guy holding the cup? Or was it something else you were holding?

theslick1
09-14-2012, 04:25 PM
I am assuming from your apparent inside knowledge of this that you were the guy holding the cup? Or was it something else you were holding?

:laugh2:

dballss
09-14-2012, 07:53 PM
jays keep getting lucky, avg players having epic seasons when they're 30 and looks like they can keep them up

Halladay
09-14-2012, 11:47 PM
jays keep getting lucky, avg players having epic seasons when they're 30 and looks like they can keep them up

Well, Bautista was a pretty good player before his breakout season, a very under-valued player. E5 has always had ridiculous power, it's not like it's coming out of nowhere. For every E5 and Bautista there are a hundred failures in the system. The nature of baseball.

Kenny Powders
09-15-2012, 09:10 AM
i think they are all on something , even jeter

No not Jeter. He is God's gift to baseball. "And in the nineteenth hundred and seventy sixth year, God created the most overrated baseball player to ever play"

Twitchy
09-15-2012, 09:32 AM
I have no idea what you're using to justify that, but I can't imagine any metric that would have him as even the worst player in the Jays infield at any point within the last 18 months.

It's funny. I did a list of the worst players from 2010-2011 and for some reason EE isn't there. Crazy, right? I did see Adam Lind leading the charge (-0.3 WAR).

EE is/was a terrible defender, which is why he was limited to 3 WAR over the past 2 years. And that certainly doesn't make him one of the worst players in baseball. A 110-115 wRC+, which is what he put up during that time, definitely isn't horrible. Not by any stretch of the imagination. He did post a 237 ISO a few years ago for the Jays, which I had totally forgotten about.

I'm not really sure what he's talking about either.

Halladay
09-16-2012, 04:39 PM
EE is twice the player Holliday is. Take that Jeffy.

Fly
09-16-2012, 04:56 PM
EE is twice the player Holliday is. Take that Jeffy.

:laugh2:

Jeffy25
09-16-2012, 08:54 PM
I have no idea what you're using to justify that, but I can't imagine any metric that would have him as even the worst player in the Jays infield at any point within the last 18 months.


It's funny. I did a list of the worst players from 2010-2011 and for some reason EE isn't there. Crazy, right? I did see Adam Lind leading the charge (-0.3 WAR).

EE is/was a terrible defender, which is why he was limited to 3 WAR over the past 2 years. And that certainly doesn't make him one of the worst players in baseball. A 110-115 wRC+, which is what he put up during that time, definitely isn't horrible. Not by any stretch of the imagination. He did post a 237 ISO a few years ago for the Jays, which I had totally forgotten about.

I'm not really sure what he's talking about either.

As of May 2011, he was.

He was absolutely horrible in every regard.

His defense at third was a joke, and his bat wasn't any better.

He turned it around obviously, but he was awful. -0.5 fWAR as of May 31 already. Only Carl Crawford and Ryan Raburn had worse WAR to that point.

I can't find it, but there was a Fangraphs article arguing if he should be released or not.

Twitchy
09-16-2012, 10:49 PM
As of May 2011, he was.

He was absolutely horrible in every regard.

His defense at third was a joke, and his bat wasn't any better.

He turned it around obviously, but he was awful. -0.5 fWAR as of May 31 already. Only Carl Crawford and Ryan Raburn had worse WAR to that point.

I can't find it, but there was a Fangraphs article arguing if he should be released or not.

Stop reading Fangraphs and taking everything they say like the word of God lol. Dave Cameron said back before 2011 they should release Bautista too, who was a perfectly good utility bat and LHP masher. The point is they say a lot of smart things, but a lot of dumb things too.

You don't release someone because of one bad month. EE had a 109 wRC+ in 2010 and despite a crappy April of 2011 he still managed a 114 wRC+.

So you can't really say he was bad for 18 months, because he was only bad for one month. And nobody should be released because of one bad month.

R. Johnson#3
09-17-2012, 06:19 AM
Do it again next year I say. The guy is notorious for going on a tear for a month or two then disappearing. He's had a great season this year but I'm not completely sold on him yet.

Jeffy25
09-17-2012, 09:35 AM
Stop reading Fangraphs and taking everything they say like the word of God lol. Dave Cameron said back before 2011 they should release Bautista too, who was a perfectly good utility bat and LHP masher. The point is they say a lot of smart things, but a lot of dumb things too.
How is quoting a well-known site taking everything they say as the 'word of God?'

At one point, E5 was regarded as one of, if not the worst player on the field.




You don't release someone because of one bad month. EE had a 109 wRC+ in 2010 and despite a crappy April of 2011 he still managed a 114 wRC+.
Actually two bad months, and his defense was also dragging down his value. He was making 2 million, but he didn't have much purpose at that point to the Jays.

Obviously it's a great thing they didn't release him.


So you can't really say he was bad for 18 months, because he was only bad for one month. And nobody should be released because of one bad month.

I didn't say he was bad for 18 months. I said he was at one point arguably the worst player in baseball within the last 18 months.

Also, it wasn't one bad month, it was two, and they were the first two months of the season, so it's a reasonable assumption that could have continued.


The point? He has turned it around at an extreme rate, comparative to Bautista's turn-around.

Twitchy
09-17-2012, 02:11 PM
How is quoting a well-known site taking everything they say as the 'word of God?'

It's not something limited to this thread. Which is why I brought it up. Generally you parrot the Fangraphs opinion rather than support your own. I felt it was appropriate to bring it up given that there was no logical reason to release someone based off of 1-2 poor months, to which you said FG said they should do it and that somehow made it ok.


At one point, E5 was regarded as one of, if not the worst player on the field.

Defensively? Sure. But going forward his bat was obviously not going to be that bad, and when he was inevitably moved off of 3B he would no longer be a negative value guy. Which is why he was worth keeping.


Actually two bad months, and his defense was also dragging down his value. He was making 2 million, but he didn't have much purpose at that point to the Jays.

He didn't have much purpose as a third baseman (even though he was a 1.5 WAR guy for several season, which isn't that bad). Anybody who can post a wRC+ greater than 100, especially greater than 110, is quite useful.


Obviously it's a great thing they didn't release him.

Yes, because as previously said releasing him based on one poor month would have been the worst possible decision. There is no logical reason for releasing him based on 1-2 poor months. Small sample size, much?


I didn't say he was bad for 18 months. I said he was at one point arguably the worst player in baseball within the last 18 months.

Over the last 30 days the worst players in baseball have been Ryan Howard, Mark Trumbo and Matt Kemp. Should their teams release them too? Or are we going to admit that basing things off of 1-2 months is maybe too short a sample size, and calling for someone's release because of that a pretty narrowminded and shortsighted decision?


Also, it wasn't one bad month, it was two, and they were the first two months of the season, so it's a reasonable assumption that could have continued.

It's actually not a reasonable assumption that a guy would continue to play bad based on two months. That's the opposite of reason.

Jeffy25
09-17-2012, 03:21 PM
It's not something limited to this thread. Which is why I brought it up. Generally you parrot the Fangraphs opinion rather than support your own. I felt it was appropriate to bring it up given that there was no logical reason to release someone based off of 1-2 poor months, to which you said FG said they should do it and that somehow made it ok.
It was nothing more than a support of the claim.

Trust me, I don't always agree with Fangraphs. For example, they think the Westbrook extension for next season was a good decision and timing, and I completely disagree with even signing him for next year, much less the timing when we have several arms that could earn a rotation spot for next season. They are a source to support an opinion, not a place to form an opinion unless you are reading about something you don't know enough about yet.



He didn't have much purpose as a third baseman (even though he was a 1.5 WAR guy for several season, which isn't that bad). Anybody who can post a wRC+ greater than 100, especially greater than 110, is quite useful.

I agree, and they should be. But he was off to a laughably bad start 18 months ago. Now he is one of the best offensive players in the game.


My entire point was that he made a huge turn-around. I don't see why you are arguing.




Over the last 30 days the worst players in baseball have been Ryan Howard, Mark Trumbo and Matt Kemp. Should their teams release them too? Or are we going to admit that basing things off of 1-2 months is maybe too short a sample size, and calling for someone's release because of that a pretty narrowminded and shortsighted decision?

He had a -0.5 fWAR over 60 days. I don't know why you keep talking about 30 days. I said as of May 31st in my original post. And it's not like E5 was this fantastic ball player in years prior. It's not like he had a track record of great success. A bat barely above league average, and average for the position he plays, and a weak glove for his position.

In 2010, E5 had a 109 wRC+, and he only played third base.
If the argument was...let's move him to first base, where the league average bat in 2010 had a 112 wRC+ then yeah, he wouldn't be of that much value.

As of June 4th, 2011. E5 was hitting .243/.275/.342 and was no longer being used at third base because of his horrendous defense (15 errors in less than 300 innings). He was DHing every game and batting 9th in the lineup.

This isn't Mark Trumbo who had a .400 wOBA for half a season in his second season of his career. This is a guy that was hitting 9th as a DH with a .600 OPS and had not shown great success in his career, just flashes of brilliance like Bautista.


I have no idea why you are arguing, he was horrible at one point within the last 18 months. That isn't a lie, he was. He clearly turned it around, good for him. I am not advocating that he should have been released, but he wasn't showing very much value.

E5 has come a long way, I would think as a Jays fan, you would be excited about that, rather than nitpicking a petty fight over it.

thrice4
09-17-2012, 03:35 PM
I dont know what his contract is but Id like to see what he could do on a different team and in a new stadium. He wasnt horrible with the reds but he was never like this.

Twitchy
09-17-2012, 04:00 PM
You obviously don't see the value in a league average peformance. A 109 wRC+ against a 112 wRC+ average is still a valuable player. You're dismissing it for no reason. It's the same argument you tried to make in the Burnett thread, that acquiring a league average player was a bad idea. It was wrong there, and it's still wrong here.

I'm not arguing about the fact he made a turn around. I'm arguing about the fact that you still don't understand that just because a player has one or two bad months doesn't mean you dismiss his past performance or base the future performance on that small sample size and suggest he should be released. Yes, he was awful for 60 days. No, that doesn't mean he's going to continue to be awful, and even as a 1B/DH his bat is still good enough to be a league average player. That's not a bad thing.

And the only reason I did past 30 days is because I was short on time and didn't see an option for past 60 days. So I went with the information I had available. I'm aware that you said past 60 days.

Jamiecballer
09-17-2012, 04:01 PM
ya ya catfight!

jon32
09-17-2012, 04:23 PM
GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE................i feel like ive just contributed more to this than than many of the posts in it.

Jeffy25
09-17-2012, 04:55 PM
You obviously don't see the value in a league average peformance. A 109 wRC+ against a 112 wRC+ average is still a valuable player. You're dismissing it for no reason. It's the same argument you tried to make in the Burnett thread, that acquiring a league average player was a bad idea. It was wrong there, and it's still wrong here.

I'm not arguing about the fact he made a turn around. I'm arguing about the fact that you still don't understand that just because a player has one or two bad months doesn't mean you dismiss his past performance or base the future performance on that small sample size and suggest he should be released. Yes, he was awful for 60 days. No, that doesn't mean he's going to continue to be awful, and even as a 1B/DH his bat is still good enough to be a league average player. That's not a bad thing.

And the only reason I did past 30 days is because I was short on time and didn't see an option for past 60 days. So I went with the information I had available. I'm aware that you said past 60 days.

I like that you think you know my argument better than I do.

I am only arguing that E5 made a turn-around just as impressive as Bautista. I am not arguing that he was an average player with no value. But was playing so poorly as of June 4th, 2011 that there could have been discussions regarding the possibility that he should be released.

Prior to 2011
E5 was a career .258/.336/.453 - .344 wOBA, 104 wRC+, -44.7 UZR, 7.4 fWAR.

Of Third basemen with that many Plate Appearances in that time span he was better than Jorge Cantu and Mark Tehean. And nobody else.

Then he starts off 2011, with a .600 OPS as of June 4th, played such bad defense at third that they removed him from the position completely (15 errors in 300 innings, I'm surprised you don't remember this) and he was hitting last in the lineup and DHing.

This isn't dismissing some former great player, he wasn't a very good player. League average at best, and he started off 2011 so badly that he was arguably the worst player in the game. Now, 18 months later, he is a 40 home run hitter.


Do you think that I am advocating that he should have been released or something? All I said in my original post was that he has made a huge turn-around, Bautista level. Since June, 2011 he has been one of the best hitters in the game, after being one of the worst. Some major adjustments came.

My only argument was that he once sucked, and he obviously did at one point in the last 18 months, which is all I said. And that his turn-around is on the same level as Bautista's. That's it.