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rockbottom2010
09-09-2012, 06:49 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS - Hanley Ramirez
RF - Jay Bruce
CF - Mike Trout
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Edwin Encarnacion
SRHP - Justin Verlander
SLHP - Cole Hamels
RP - Sergio Romo
CP - Fernando Rodney

SmartestGuyHere
09-09-2012, 06:57 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS - Hanley Ramirez
RF - Jay Bruce
CF - Mike Trout
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Edwin Encarnacion
SRHP - Justin Verlander
SLHP - Cole Hamels
RP - Sergio Romo
CP - Fernando Rodney

SLHP- Kershaw?
SS- Troy?

rocket
09-09-2012, 06:59 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS - Hanley Ramirez
RF - Jay Bruce
CF - Mike Trout
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Edwin Encarnacion
SRHP - Justin Verlander
SLHP - Cole Hamels
RP - Sergio Romo
CP - Fernando Rodney

Hanley?

FraziersKnicks
09-09-2012, 07:31 PM
I'd still take a fully fit Matt Kemp over Mike Trout.......

COME AT ME PSD :guns:

Fly
09-09-2012, 07:37 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS - Hanley Ramirez
RF - Jay Bruce
CF - Mike Trout
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Edwin Encarnacion
SRHP - Justin Verlander
SLHP - Cole Hamels
RP - Sergio Romo
CP - Fernando Rodney

lolwut

Rush
09-09-2012, 07:42 PM
.

Matter.
09-09-2012, 07:50 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS - Hanley Ramirez
RF - Jay Bruce
CF - Mike Trout
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Edwin Encarnacion
SRHP - Justin Verlander
SLHP - Cole Hamels
RP - Sergio Romo
CP - Fernando Rodney

Troy Tulowitzki?
Jose Bautista?

MoisesFTW
09-09-2012, 07:54 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS - Derek Jeter
RF - Jose Bautista
CF - Andrew McCutchen
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Billy Butler
SRHP - Felix Hernandez
SLHP - Clayton Kershaw
RP - Vinnie Pestano
CP - Fernando Rodney

LASportsFan1996
09-09-2012, 08:02 PM
Kemp ******
Kershaw ******

BrianWestKins
09-09-2012, 08:04 PM
I think he means like who's playing the best right now.. In which case his list isn't bad

jon32
09-09-2012, 08:05 PM
im assuming he means right now.....some of the ppl are mentioning better players but theyre injured

FraziersKnicks
09-09-2012, 08:41 PM
Oh okay, yeah right now Trout over Kemp fo' sho'

King Felix over Verlander for starting right handers, Kershaw over Hamels for lefties.

2009mvp
09-09-2012, 09:10 PM
Even if we're ruling Bautista out because of injury, I'm taking Giancarlo pretty easily over Bruce.

VRP723
09-09-2012, 09:13 PM
Kemp ******
Kershaw ******

Kemp? Right now? Where do you get your crack, my guy is kinda flaky.

canefandynasty
09-09-2012, 10:24 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS - Hanley Ramirez
RF - Jay Bruce
CF - Mike Trout
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Edwin Encarnacion
SRHP - Justin Verlander
SLHP - Cole Hamels
RP - Sergio Romo
CP - Fernando Rodney

Stanton >> Bruce

NYM-RMCF-DM
09-09-2012, 10:32 PM
C - Buster Posey/ Yadier Molina
1B - Joey Votto/Pujols/Trumbo
2B - Robinson Cano/Brandon Phillips
3B - Miguel Cabrera/ Adrian Beltre
SS - Derek Jeter/ Ian Desmond
RF - Giancarlo Stanton/Carlos Gonzalez
CF - Mike Trout/ McCutchen
LF - Ryan Braun/Josh Hamilton/ Holliday
DH - Edwin Encarnacion/Dunn
SRHP - R.A. Dickey/Verlander
SLHP - Gio Gonzalez/Kershaw
SU - Romo/O'flaherty
CP - Kimbrel/Chapman

canefandynasty
09-09-2012, 10:42 PM
C - Buster Posey/ Yadier Molina
1B - Joey Votto/Pujols/Trumbo
2B - Robinson Cano/Brandon Phillips
3B - Miguel Cabrera/ Adrian Beltre
SS - Derek Jeter/ Ian Desmond
RF - Giancarlo Stanton/Carlos Gonzalez
CF - Mike Trout/ McCutchen
LF - Ryan Braun/Josh Hamilton/ Holliday
DH - Edwin Encarnacion/Dunn
SRHP - R.A. Dickey/Verlander
SLHP - Gio Gonzalez/Kershaw
SU - Romo/O'flaherty
CP - Kimbrel/Chapman
I thought CarGo plays mostly LF...Bautista is a better fit IMO.

bal_ravens
09-09-2012, 10:49 PM
If it's right now, Mark Reynolds is the best player in baseball.... lol

Dude has had like 10 home runs, 17 RBIs, and batting .350 or something in the past 10 games.

Ill21
09-09-2012, 11:00 PM
C - Buster Posey/ Yadier Molina
1B - Joey Votto/Pujols/Trumbo
2B - Robinson Cano/Brandon Phillips
3B - Miguel Cabrera/ Adrian Beltre
SS - Derek Jeter/ Ian Desmond
RF - Giancarlo Stanton/Carlos Gonzalez
CF - Mike Trout/ McCutchen
LF - Ryan Braun/Josh Hamilton/ Holliday
DH - Edwin Encarnacion/Dunn
SRHP - R.A. Dickey/Verlander
SLHP - Gio Gonzalez/Kershaw
SU - Romo/O'flaherty
CP - Kimbrel/Chapman

Really?

Not Jered Weaver or Felix Hernandez???

metswon69
09-09-2012, 11:05 PM
Yeah no way on RA Dickey even if he is having a great Cy Young type season.

And that's coming from a Met fan...

rockbottom2010
09-09-2012, 11:10 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS - Derek Jeter
RF - Jose Bautista
CF - Andrew McCutchen
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Billy Butler
SRHP - Felix Hernandez
SLHP - Clayton Kershaw
RP - Vinnie Pestano
CP - Fernando Rodney

look at the numbers b/w butler and encarnacion...its not even close

UPRock
09-09-2012, 11:36 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS - Derek Jeter
RF - Giancarlo Stanton
CF - Andrew McCutchen/Mike Trout (Can't decide)
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Edwin Encarnacion
SRHP - Felix Hernandez
SLHP - Clayton Kershaw
RP - Sergio Romo
CP - Fernando Rodney

odiz
09-10-2012, 12:18 AM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS - Derek Jeter
RF - Giancarlo Stanton
CF - Andrew McCutchen/Mike Trout (Can't decide)
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Edwin Encarnacion
SRHP - Felix Hernandez
SLHP - Clayton Kershaw
RP - Sergio Romo
CP - Fernando Rodney

I like this list. But if we are taking defense into account Jeter belongs nowhere near any of these lists. Best overall SS right now has to be between Desmond and Andrus.

LASportsFan1996
09-10-2012, 01:08 AM
Kemp? Right now? Where do you get your crack, my guy is kinda flaky.

I didn't know of the right this minute stipulation, but when healthy Kemp >

rockbottom2010
09-10-2012, 01:36 AM
this was a very difficult list to make....it took me time to think about this

Teufelshunde4
09-10-2012, 01:37 AM
C - Buster Posey/ Yadier Molina
1B - Joey Votto/Pujols/Trumbo
2B - Robinson Cano/Brandon Phillips
3B - Miguel Cabrera/ Adrian Beltre
SS - Derek Jeter/ Ian Desmond
RF - Giancarlo Stanton/Carlos Gonzalez
CF - Mike Trout/ McCutchen
LF - Ryan Braun/Josh Hamilton/ Holliday
DH - Edwin Encarnacion/Dunn
SRHP - R.A. Dickey/Verlander
SLHP - Gio Gonzalez/Kershaw
SU - Romo/O'flaherty
CP - Kimbrel/Chapman

Thats a pretty solid list.. Only disagree on Jeter and Trumbo.. Jeter is a joke defensively and Trumbo doesnt play first on his own team..

Jeffy25
09-10-2012, 01:50 AM
Thats a pretty solid list.. Only disagree on Jeter and Trumbo.. Jeter is a joke defensively and Trumbo doesnt play first on his own team..

And he is no where close to an elite player

CHRISDODGERS
09-10-2012, 04:26 AM
I didn't know of the right this minute stipulation, but when healthy Kemp >

and you'd still be wrong

Jack of Blades
09-10-2012, 04:34 AM
SS - Jurickson.Barthelomeus.Profar.

JStub22
09-10-2012, 04:47 AM
Kemp is a bum. So overrated. 50/50 season huh? lmao

Rush
09-10-2012, 12:43 PM
Overrated? I think not. Sure he was dumb for saying 50/50, but he's also dealt with a hamstring injury for a good amount of the season. He's had about half as many PA's this year as he did last season. I think we would've seen a similar season to last year's. But is 100% not overrated.

rockbottom2010
09-10-2012, 12:44 PM
Kemp is a bum. So overrated. 50/50 season huh? lmao

its mike trout w/o question

Rush
09-10-2012, 12:45 PM
Care to explain. Because he isn't.

rockbottom2010
09-10-2012, 12:58 PM
Care to explain. Because he isn't.

#1 : called up in late April (around the same time as Bryce Harper)
#2 : leads the league in WAR
#3 : leads the AL in BA
#4 : leads the AL in steals
#5 : best defensive CF in the league w/o question
#6: youngest player to hit 20 + HRS and 40 + steals
#7: ROY
#8: the guy just turned 21 a month ago

KrunchyGoodness
09-10-2012, 01:15 PM
Care to explain. Because he isn't.

Here are the top players in 2011 and 2012 split seasons based on WAR/600 PAs:

2012 Mike Trout 9.44
2011 Jacoby Ellsbury 7.70
2011 Jose Bautista 7.60
2011 Matt Kemp 7.58
2011 Ryan Braun 7.44
2012 Ryan Braun 7.40

Rush
09-10-2012, 01:21 PM
#1 : called up in late April (around the same time as Bryce Harper)
#2 : leads the league in WAR
#3 : leads the AL in BA
#4 : leads the AL in steals
#5 : best defensive CF in the league w/o question
#6: youngest player to hit 20 + HRS and 40 + steals
#7: ROY
#8: the guy just turned 21 a month ago

The way you responded JStub22, it made me believe you thought Trout was overrated. I certainly don't believe he is.


Here are the top players in 2011 and 2012 split seasons based on WAR/600 PAs:

2012 Mike Trout 9.44
2011 Jacoby Ellsbury 7.70
2011 Jose Bautista 7.60
2011 Matt Kemp 7.58
2011 Ryan Braun 7.44
2012 Ryan Braun 7.40

I never said Trout was overrated.

KrunchyGoodness
09-10-2012, 01:29 PM
The way you responded JStub22, it made me believe you thought Trout was overrated. I certainly don't believe he is.



I never said Trout was overrated.

Sorry, I was thinking you were saying that Kemp was better than Trout.

Rush
09-10-2012, 01:30 PM
Sorry, I was thinking you were saying that Kemp was better than Trout.

No worries. I think we just got confused. I thought rockbottom was saying Trout was overrated since he was responding to a post saying Kemp is.

pebloemer
09-10-2012, 02:53 PM
C: Posey
1B: Votto
2B: Cano
SS: Tulowitzki
3B: Cabrera
RF: Bautista
CF: Trout
LF: Braun
DH: Encarnacion
RHP: Verlander
LHP: Kershaw
Closer: Chapman

xnick5757
09-10-2012, 03:11 PM
fWAR leaders by position (among qualified batters)


C - Buster Posey (6.0)
1B - Prince Fielder (4.2)
2B - Robinson Cano (6.0)
SS - Ian Desmond (4.5)
3B - David Wright (6.6)
LF - Ryan Braun (7.2)
CF - Mike Trout (8.5)
RF - Jason Heyward (6.1)
DH - Joe Mauer (4.3)

SRHP - Verlander/Hernandez (tied) (5.8)
SLHP - Gonzalez/Kershaw (tied) (4.9)
RP - Matt Belisle (1.8)
CP - Aroldis Chapman (3.5)

total fWAR: 69.7

xnick5757
09-10-2012, 03:15 PM
purely offensive lineup (qualified):


C - Buster Posey (152 wRC+)
1B - Edwin Encarnacion (153 wRC+)
2B - Robinson Cano (141 wRC+)
SS - Ian Desmond (128 wRC+)
3B - Miguel Cabrera (161 wRC+)
LF - Ryan Braun (164 wRC+)
CF - Mike Trout (173 wRC+)
RF - Giancarlo Stanton (152 WC+)
DH - Joe Mauer (139 wRC+)

KrunchyGoodness
09-10-2012, 03:28 PM
fWAR leaders by position (among qualified batters)


C - Buster Posey (6.0)
1B - Prince Fielder (4.2)
2B - Robinson Cano (6.0)
SS - Ian Desmond (4.5)
3B - David Wright (6.6)
LF - Ryan Braun (7.2)
CF - Mike Trout (8.5)
RF - Jason Heyward (6.1)
DH - Joe Mauer (4.3)

SRHP - Verlander/Hernandez (tied) (5.8)
SLHP - Gonzalez/Kershaw (tied) (4.9)
RP - Matt Belisle (1.8)
CP - Aroldis Chapman (3.5)

total fWAR: 69.7

Just want to clarify this list. Trout is also the number one LF. Votto has more WAR than any 1B, but he was injured and no longer qualifies.

rockbottom2010
09-10-2012, 04:20 PM
david wright is no where close to being the best third baseman....its definitely b/w longaria and cabrera...and i chose cabrera all day

xnick5757
09-10-2012, 04:52 PM
Just want to clarify this list. Trout is also the number one LF. Votto has more WAR than any 1B, but he was injured and no longer qualifies.

yup trout works at LF too. and i was only using the qualified batters


david wright is no where close to being the best third baseman....its definitely b/w longaria and cabrera...and i chose cabrera all day

longoria has played in all of 53 games this year. wright is a slight offensive downgrade from miggy (140 wRC+ vs 161+) but wright is such a better defender that he more then makes up the difference.


this season:

miggy: -10.7 UZR/150 (career -5.9)

wright: 13.4 UZR/150 (career -2.3)

MetsFanatic19
09-10-2012, 05:18 PM
david wright is no where close to being the best third baseman

Fangraphs 2012 WAR

David Wright - 6.6
Miguel Cabrera - 5.8
Evan Longoria - 3.8
Alex Rodriguez - 2.1
Chipper Jones - 3.0
Mike Moustakas - 3.6
Ryan Zimmerman - 4.3
Adrian Beltre - 5.3

What did you say about David Wright again?

rockbottom2010
09-10-2012, 05:36 PM
Fangraphs 2012 WAR

David Wright - 6.6
Miguel Cabrera - 5.8
Evan Longoria - 3.8
Alex Rodriguez - 2.1
Chipper Jones - 3.0
Mike Moustakas - 3.6
Ryan Zimmerman - 4.3
Adrian Beltre - 5.3

What did you say about David Wright again?

so why is he not considered a MVP candidate?

Rush
09-10-2012, 05:49 PM
David Wright is one of the best third baseman in baseball. He may not be THE best, but he should be in the discussion as one of them.

Rush
09-10-2012, 05:52 PM
Ya if he was on a winning team you'd hear his name more often in that discussion.

MetsFanatic19
09-10-2012, 07:15 PM
so why is he not considered a MVP candidate?

I'm quite sure he is, but he's not going to win because he's not the MVP. Cabrera is considered an MVP because he is an offensive God, but his defense just doesn't match up to David's. Out of all of the players I listed, David has been the best player this year. Not the best hitter, but the best player.

That post just aggrivated the hell out of me.

Teufelshunde4
09-10-2012, 08:43 PM
david wright is no where close to being the best third baseman....its definitely b/w longaria and cabrera...and i chose cabrera all day

Just because they have Cabrera playing 3b doesnt mean he is a quality 3rd basemen. Miggy is a monster with the bat. And IMO no that Pujols has fallin off some Miggy is the best hitter in baseball.. Power and Avg complete hitter.

Now I know the Trout argument is coming.. Here is my point on that.. Trout is a monster talent who is having an awesome season.. And he is on his way to becoming the best player in baseball if he can keep this pace.. And thats the point.. One season doesnt make a career.. I have already heard the talking heads call Trout a HOF player.. The kid hasnt even played 162 games for his career.. Lets give him some room to mature.. I hate to see him have such an awesome season then next season Trout hits .280 .333 and 450 and people are gonna be bashing the kid for not producing.

rockbottom2010
09-10-2012, 08:43 PM
so what about longoria....hes can easily match up to wright...if not better if he had a healthy free season

Texas Holders
09-10-2012, 09:15 PM
Well....kinda related; I was bored and put this together before even seeing this thread earlier today:

NL WAR Leaders By Position

C- Buster Posey (5.8)
1B- Corey Hart (3.2)
2B- Aaron Hill (4.5)
SS- Ian Desmond (4.5)
3B- David Wright (6.6)
OF- Ryan Braun (7.3), Michael Bourn (6.3), Andrew McCutchen (6.1)
SP- Gio Gonzalez (4.9), Clayton Kershaw (4.9), Johnny Cueto (4.6)
CP- Aroldis Chapman (3.5)

Total WAR: 62.2

AL WAR Leaders By Position

C- Joe Mauer (4.1)
1B- Prince Fielder (4.3)
2B- Robinson Cano (5.9)
SS- Elvis Andrus (4.1)
3B- Miguel Cabrera (5.9)
OF- Mike Trout (8.4), Josh Hamilton (4.9), Austin Jackson (4.9)
SP- Justin Verlander (5.8), Felix Hernandez (5.8), Chris Sale (4.2)
CP- Fernando Rodney (2.1)

Total WAR: 60.4

NL
1B - Votto has 5.1 WAR
OF - You have 2 centerfielders...Heyward should be your RF with 6.1

AL
OF - same deal here, no RF, which would be Zobrist with 4.6

Texas Holders
09-10-2012, 09:20 PM
Just want to clarify this list. Trout is also the number one LF. Votto has more WAR than any 1B, but he was injured and no longer qualifies.

There is no such thing as qualifying for having the most WAR. Minimum PA only applies for rate based stats, which WAR isn't. It would be similar to saying that some guy isn't the home run champ because he didn't have the PA to qualify for the batting championship.

MetsFanatic19
09-10-2012, 09:36 PM
so what about longoria....hes can easily match up to wright...if not better if he had a healthy free season

They're very much alike, and if 100% healthy I would probably take Longoria, but him and David are arguaby the two best all around third baseman in the game. I just left him off because I was focusing on this year, and this year, David has been the best third baseman.

Mr Haha
09-10-2012, 11:07 PM
Jeeetah!!!!!

AI
09-11-2012, 12:08 AM
I'd take Elvis Andrus over Hanley right now. Stanton over Bruce, King Felix over Verlander and Kershaw over Hamels.

Jeffy25
09-11-2012, 12:11 AM
No homer, but the debate between Molina and Posey is better than people might realize.

I know Posey was a top prospect, draft pick, and rookie of the year. He has the household name, and he has the offensive advantage over Molina, but not by that much.

But Molina is the best defensive catcher in baseball, and that is the most premium position in the game.

Over the last two seasons, they are closer than people might realize, especially with this season, even when Posey is putting up an MVP caliber season.

d79cheese
09-11-2012, 12:20 AM
No homer, but the debate between Molina and Posey is better than people might realize.

I know Posey was a top prospect, draft pick, and rookie of the year. He has the household name, and he has the offensive advantage over Molina, but not by that much.

But Molina is the best defensive catcher in baseball, and that is the most premium position in the game.

Over the last two seasons, they are closer than people might realize, especially with this season, even when Posey is putting up an MVP caliber season.

I dunno about him being actually better then Posey. Obviously Molina is the premier defensive catcher, but Posey isn't a slouch. I don't really care what the advanced defensive metrics show, he is an above average defensive catcher. He is clearly the best offensive catcher in the game and is still very young in terms of baseball playing time (barely has over 1,110 PA's for his career). His game should get better defensively and offensively in the upcoming years when he enters his prime. Not trying to be a homer, but whether we are picking players this year or going forward, I just don't see a legitmate argument for anyone other then Posey when you include all factors

Texas Holders
09-11-2012, 12:24 AM
Umm....sorry but NO. I'll take two CF's without question.




*Votto has more WAR but I was using Fangraphs leaderboardand they don't have him listed as being "qualified". And yes, I realize that WAR is a counting stat.

So since he doesn't qualify for the batting title, he can't be the best first basemen this year? I am not sure what sense that makes. I could understand it a bit more if one guy had 3.4 WAR to 3.2 WAR, then yeah, actually playing the whole year would outweigh 0.2 WAR, but Votto has 5.1. So basically, Votto plus a minor league replacement making up the missed time is nearly 2 wins more valuable than Hart. Even taking the worst first basemen this year (Justin Smoak) as the replacement player is more valuable than having Hart. So I know who I would go with.

Texas Holders
09-11-2012, 12:34 AM
No homer, but the debate between Molina and Posey is better than people might realize.

I know Posey was a top prospect, draft pick, and rookie of the year. He has the household name, and he has the offensive advantage over Molina, but not by that much.

But Molina is the best defensive catcher in baseball, and that is the most premium position in the game.

Over the last two seasons, they are closer than people might realize, especially with this season, even when Posey is putting up an MVP caliber season.

I still remember the TLR quote on Molina where he could be batting .000 and he would still be the starting catcher. Best defensive catcher in the league with a .321/.373/.505; that is pretty remarkable. I still haven't figured out how he has stolen 11 bases this year (only caught twice).

Chew on this and figure it out (SB/Att):
Yadier Molina 11/13, 85%
Bryce Harper 13/18, 72%
Rafael Furcal 12/16, 75%
Nyjer Morgan 11/16, 69%
Matt Kemp 9/12, 75%
League Average: 74%

Jeffy25
09-11-2012, 01:49 AM
I still remember the TLR quote on Molina where he could be batting .000 and he would still be the starting catcher. Best defensive catcher in the league with a .321/.373/.505; that is pretty remarkable. I still haven't figured out how he has stolen 11 bases this year (only caught twice).

Chew on this and figure it out (SB/Att):
Yadier Molina 11/13, 85%
Bryce Harper 13/18, 72%
Rafael Furcal 12/16, 75%
Nyjer Morgan 11/16, 69%
Matt Kemp 9/12, 75%
League Average: 74%

Nobody pays any attention to him :p

lol, please
09-11-2012, 02:08 AM
Sergio Romo is getting some love :love:

rockbottom2010
09-11-2012, 07:58 AM
I'd take Elvis Andrus over Hanley right now. Stanton over Bruce, King Felix over Verlander and Kershaw over Hamels.

andrus has no power, bruce has been the mvp for the reds...and verlander over king felix....how many pitchers have won mvp...go figure

DrS16
09-11-2012, 08:48 AM
C - Joe Mauer (still the best when healthy)
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - David Wright (playing for a team that has no production in 2nd half)
SS - Jose Reyes (better all around game than any other SS)
LF - Ryan Braun
CF - Josh Hamilton (Trout and Tiger's Jackson not that far behind)
RF - Jose Bautista
SRHP - R.A. Dickey (stat don't lie - best of all starters in MLB)
SLHP - David Price
RP - Jake McGee
CP - Craig Kimbrel

Pinstripe pride
09-11-2012, 08:50 AM
C - Nick Swisher
1B - Nick Swisher
2B - Nick Swisher
3B - Nick Swisher
SS - Nick Swisher
RF - Nick Swisher
CF - Nick Swisher
LF - Nick Swisher
DH - Nick Swisher
SRHP - Nick Swisher
SLHP - Nick Swisher
RP - Nick Swisher
CP - Nick Swisher

rockbottom2010
09-11-2012, 09:16 AM
C - Nick Swisher
1B - Nick Swisher
2B - Nick Swisher
3B - Nick Swisher
SS - Nick Swisher
RF - Nick Swisher
CF - Nick Swisher
LF - Nick Swisher
DH - Nick Swisher
SRHP - Nick Swisher
SLHP - Nick Swisher
RP - Nick Swisher
CP - Nick Swisher

ur in luv with swisher or wat...hes no where close

Rush
09-11-2012, 12:54 PM
andrus has no power, bruce has been the mvp for the reds...and verlander over king felix....how many pitchers have won mvp...go figure

Who cares if he has no power? Power doesn't simply make you the best at your position. You have to take defense into consideration as well if you're going to say someone is the best at their position. Hanley is a poor defensive SS (career -9.3 UZR/150). Andrus is an above average-great defensive SS (career 7.3 UZR.150) and he's having his best hitting year. Not to take anything away from Hanley, he's a good hitter, but this closes the gap between the two.

rockbottom2010
09-11-2012, 02:08 PM
Who cares if he has no power? Power doesn't simply make you the best at your position. You have to take defense into consideration as well if you're going to say someone is the best at their position. Hanley is a poor defensive SS (career -9.3 UZR/150). Andrus is an above average-great defensive SS (career 7.3 UZR.150) and he's having his best hitting year. Not to take anything away from Hanley, he's a good hitter, but this closes the gap between the two.

yunel escobar has better defense than andrus all day

lavell12
09-11-2012, 02:28 PM
Well right now the best starting pitcher is KRIS MEDLEN

Rush
09-11-2012, 02:45 PM
yunel escobar has better defense than andrus all day

Why do you keep bringing up irrelevant information when it has nothing to do with the discussion? The post was about Hanley and Andrus. And no, Andrus has better defense. Andrus career UZR/150: 7.2. Escobar career UZR/150: 3.9. Next.

rockbottom2010
09-11-2012, 02:58 PM
andrus is not the best SS in the league...he just has better defense

Rush
09-11-2012, 03:01 PM
I never said he is the best SS in the league. I never said he was the best at anything. I just said he had better defense than Hanley and Escobar. Read the posts.

MetsFanatic19
09-11-2012, 03:01 PM
andrus is not the best SS in the league...he just has better defense

Why do you keep changing your argument? First you said Yunel was a better defender, now you're saying Andrus is better but not the best short stop? You're confusing me.

rockbottom2010
09-11-2012, 03:02 PM
according to espn....brendan ryan has the best WAR as a SS...doesn't mean hes the best SS in the league...i still stick to hanley...hes a beast

Rush
09-11-2012, 03:04 PM
Ok........

MetsFanatic19
09-11-2012, 03:07 PM
according to espn....brendan ryan has the best WAR as a SS...doesn't mean hes the best SS in the league...i still stick to hanley...hes a beast

It's hard to be the best SS in the league when you're batting .195.

Rush
09-11-2012, 03:21 PM
according to espn....brendan ryan has the best WAR as a SS...doesn't mean hes the best SS in the league...i still stick to hanley...hes a beast

With the bat he is. With the glove he's not. If you said who's the best hitting SS you can definitely make a case. But when it comes to best SS (thinking about offense AND defense) I'd rather have Tulow over him (not saying he's the best). Almost equal with the bat, but Tulow's much better defensively.

MetsFanatic19
09-11-2012, 03:23 PM
I would take Jose as my starting SS. Great speed, the ability to drive the ball, an absolute CANNON for an arm, and he adds fun and chemistry to a team. I miss him in NY.

Teufelshunde4
09-11-2012, 05:35 PM
according to espn....brendan ryan has the best WAR as a SS...doesn't mean hes the best SS in the league...i still stick to hanley...hes a beast

Hanley has played 35 games at SS this season.. Marlins wouldnt start him over Reyes there and you wanna call him a beast.. Geez lets not try to live off of rep that has been damaged by 3 straight down years..

Texas Holders
09-11-2012, 07:29 PM
As I said already, that wasn't my list. No ****, you (or anyone with half a brain) wouldn't take Hart over Votto. Maybe if you actually read the initial post you where responding to we wouldn't be having this "argument".

I was simply going by Fangraphs rankings which didn't even list Votto since he doesn't have enough AB's (which I've also said twice now).

I get all that, but you are the one that decided that a minimum number of PA were required for the list you made, something FG allows you to change.

Texas Holders
09-12-2012, 12:24 AM
No I wasn't, fool. Just left it at the default setting for Fangraphs. You want to debate this further?

No sense in continuing something that has devolved to name calling.

Rush
09-12-2012, 12:37 AM
Hanley committed an error tonight that caused the only run to score of the game. What a beast.

YEDN90
09-12-2012, 12:59 AM
Hanley stinks.

rockbottom2010
09-12-2012, 01:14 AM
big deal it was only just one error....and that did not cost the game....

raidersrock99
09-12-2012, 01:28 AM
So posey :)

Rush
09-12-2012, 01:39 AM
big deal it was only just one error....and that did not cost the game....

His 13th error of the season. Stil not the best SS in the game if you consider defense (four consecutive negative UZR/150 seasons). And it did cost them the game because Goldschmidt who reached on the error, scored the only run of the game.

Bottom of the 7th- http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/playbyplay?gameId=320911129

giants73756
09-12-2012, 01:44 AM
That must have been sarcasm. There's no need to point out that it didn't cost them the game if in fact it didn't actually cost them the game.

Rush
09-12-2012, 01:45 AM
That must have been sarcasm. There's no need to point out that it didn't cost them the game if in fact it didn't actually cost them the game.

Trust me it wasn't if you look at his past posts.

Texas Holders
09-12-2012, 01:50 AM
Just calling it as I see it. You where harping over some **** that really was irrelevant if you would have bothered to actually read the initial post all the way through in the first place.

Just reread it, all the post is is a list of guys leading their position in WAR, no where does it say anything about the list requiring the guy to qualify for the batting title to be included. Here is the initial post:


Well....kinda related; I was bored and put this together before even seeing this thread earlier today:

NL WAR Leaders By Position

C- Buster Posey (5.8)
1B- Corey Hart (3.2)
2B- Aaron Hill (4.5)
SS- Ian Desmond (4.5)
3B- David Wright (6.6)
OF- Ryan Braun (7.3), Michael Bourn (6.3), Andrew McCutchen (6.1)

SP- Gio Gonzalez (4.9), Clayton Kershaw (4.9), Johnny Cueto (4.6)
CP- Aroldis Chapman (3.5)

Total WAR: 62.2

AL WAR Leaders By Position

C- Joe Mauer (4.1)
1B- Prince Fielder (4.3)
2B- Robinson Cano (5.9)
SS- Elvis Andrus (4.1)
3B- Miguel Cabrera (5.9)
OF- Mike Trout (8.4), Josh Hamilton (4.9), Austin Jackson (4.9)

SP- Justin Verlander (5.8), Felix Hernandez (5.8), Chris Sale (4.2)
CP- Fernando Rodney (2.1)

Total WAR: 60.4

In a subsequent post you mentioned that, but as I mentioned earlier, it was your choice to use what FG defaults to, only those qualified for the batting title. I don't see how you don't see that was a choice you made, an alternate choice would be to use the highest WAR, regardless of number of PA. Anyway, I was just trying to point out how you could put together a higher WAR team, my apologies for causing it to upset you.

giants73756
09-12-2012, 01:51 AM
Ah, you're right. I didn't go back any pages before I made my last comment. I just did and saw this:


Hanley committed an error tonight that caused the only run to score of the game. What a beast.

rockbottom2010
09-12-2012, 01:33 PM
so having the highest WAR means that ur the best player in the league....i can argue on that

WadeKobe
09-12-2012, 02:42 PM
NOT Buster Posey
NOT Matt Cain
NOT Madison Bumgardner

KrunchyGoodness
09-12-2012, 04:11 PM
There is no such thing as qualifying for having the most WAR. Minimum PA only applies for rate based stats, which WAR isn't. It would be similar to saying that some guy isn't the home run champ because he didn't have the PA to qualify for the batting championship.

The only thing "qualifies" means for batting is qualifying for the batting title. That means he has 3.1 PAs per team game (162 at the end of the season). I never said anything about qualifying for WAR. If you wanted me to be clearer, fine. Just don't assume that what I meant was nonsensical even though I never said it. What you are doing is correcting something that you made up in your own head.

Also, why do you think I was mentioning that Votto has the most WAR at 1B even though he doesn't qualify (for the batting title)? It is because I know that WAR is cumulative and additive, and I know that Fangraphs defaults to showing batters that qualify (for the batting title).

Please, just stop.

rockbottom2010
09-12-2012, 05:08 PM
the funny part is that not too far long ago sports broadcasters talked about this WAR thing

Texas Holders
09-12-2012, 09:19 PM
The only thing "qualifies" means for batting is qualifying for the batting title. That means he has 3.1 PAs per team game (162 at the end of the season). I never said anything about qualifying for WAR. If you wanted me to be clearer, fine. Just don't assume that what I meant was nonsensical even though I never said it. What you are doing is correcting something that you made up in your own head.

Also, why do you think I was mentioning that Votto has the most WAR at 1B even though he doesn't qualify (for the batting title)? It is because I know that WAR is cumulative and additive, and I know that Fangraphs defaults to showing batters that qualify (for the batting title).

Please, just stop.

Relax, I think you misunderstood something, I agree with your post. Just because someone replies to your post, doesn't mean they disagree. I agree with your original post.

Texas Holders
09-12-2012, 09:47 PM
So you do still want to "debate" this further? Awesome. Good to know you like getting so hung up on insignificant details.

Obviously my last post meant to refer you to my first response to you. Yet you still can't get it through that concrete thick skull of yours though.

How the **** is it my choice what Fangraphs defaults to, oh genius? Are you working under the assumption that I am a paid contributor to Fangraphs and have the power to go behind the scenes and change what their default layouts are? Because last time I (or anyone) checked, Fangraphs defaults to showing offensive leaders in order of the highest WAR....but only lists those who HAVE ENOUGH QUALIFYING AT BATS FOR THE BATTING TITLE.

My apologies that you are too damn dense to understand a simple ****ing idea. Or is it that you just like arguing circularly instead of admitting you are possibly wrong? Either way....my goodness. :facepalm:

P.S. Maybe to "clear" this up, you should start a thread debating whether Corey Hart or Joey Votto is the more valuable player.

Sheesh, overreacting much? I never said it was your choice what FG defaults to. What I did say was it was your choice to use the FG default or not. I thought I made that clear on my last response, but I guess not. Do you always try to belittle people when you talk to them, especially when you have no idea of their academic background?

rockbottom2010
09-13-2012, 01:14 AM
10 years ago they never talked about WAR....all of a sudden its making such a big difference.....

Texas Holders
09-13-2012, 07:45 AM
Give it up, man. I could give two ****s as to what your ****ing academic background is.

BTW: just double checked; you've added absolutely NOTHING of value to this thread. Congratulations!

:) Exactly my point.

yankkiller
09-13-2012, 10:21 AM
i figured out this lineup by also including defense too not just hitting

CF Mike Trout
2B Dustin Pedroia
1B Joey Votto
SS Troy Tulowitzki
LF Josh Hamilton
C Buster Posey
3B Adrian Beltre
RF Justin Upton
DH Billy Butler

LHSP Chris Sale
RHSP Jered Weaver
RHRP Serigo Romo
LHRP Aroldis Chapman
CL Craig Kimbrel

KrunchyGoodness
09-13-2012, 12:05 PM
Relax, I think you misunderstood something, I agree with your post. Just because someone replies to your post, doesn't mean they disagree. I agree with your original post.

All I did was call you out on correcting me when I wasn't wrong. I didn't misunderstand anything.

Obviously, I am just outraged and upset. :mad::mad::mad::mad::cry::cry::cry:

Miltstar
09-13-2012, 04:16 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Prince Fielder
2B - Robinson Cano
SS - Jose Reyes
3B - Miguel Cabrera
LF - Ryan Braun
CF - Mike Trout
RF - Giancarlo Stanton
DH - Edwin Encarnacion

RHSP - Felix Hernandez
LHSP - Clayton Kershaw
RHRP - Craig Kimbrel
LHRP - Aroldis Chapman

rockbottom2010
09-14-2012, 12:13 AM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Prince Fielder
2B - Robinson Cano
SS - Jose Reyes
3B - Miguel Cabrera
LF - Ryan Braun
CF - Mike Trout
RF - Giancarlo Stanton
DH - Edwin Encarnacion

RHSP - Felix Hernandez
LHSP - Clayton Kershaw
RHRP - Craig Kimbrel
LHRP - Aroldis Chapman

i respect this list...i really think its a battle between bruce and bautista for right field

Teufelshunde4
09-14-2012, 02:04 AM
i respect this list...i really think its a battle between bruce and bautista for right field

Did you bother to look up Bruce's home vs road splits? Bruce is a nice player GABP helps him out a ton.

Home PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
1333 1182 204 332 66 8 81 215 14 11 133 305 .281 .355 .556 .911
Away
1310 1169 153 273 50 6 52 158 13 11 124 309 .234 .309 .420 .729

rockbottom2010
09-14-2012, 01:35 PM
Did you bother to look up Bruce's home vs road splits? Bruce is a nice player GABP helps him out a ton.

Home PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
1333 1182 204 332 66 8 81 215 14 11 133 305 .281 .355 .556 .911
Away
1310 1169 153 273 50 6 52 158 13 11 124 309 .234 .309 .420 .729

hes ones of the main reasons why the reds are successful

WadeKobe
09-14-2012, 03:15 PM
C: Yadier Molina
1B: Joey Votto
2B: Robinson Cano ( :puke: )
3B: David Wright
SS: Ian Desmond
LF: Ryan Braun
CF: Mike Trout
RF: Jose Bautista

SenorGato
09-15-2012, 12:01 AM
C - Molina
1B - Votto
2B - Cano
SS - Reyes
3B - Beltre

LF - Braun
CF -Trout
RF - Bautista

Verlander
Kershaw

Chapman

SuperiorState
09-15-2012, 01:07 AM
C: Molina

as much as it pains me to say this I would take Molina over Posey at Catcher. No one runs on Molina and better D. Posey would be backup definetely

1B: Votto

Guy is a monster. Just needs to stay healthy. Only real dominant 1B in the bigs this season

2B:

I don't want Cano because I don't really like Cano and since that really isn't a good reason I will leave 2B blank

3B: Cabrera

D is below average but Bat makes up for it.

SS: Reyes

Speed and range. Helps Cabrera.

OF: Braun, Trout, Bautista

I'd have to agree with the majority with a Braun, Trout, Bautista outfiled. Hell, right there would be a terrifying heart of the order.

This would be a scary lineup considering that Braun probably wouldn't even bat 3rd, 4th, or 5th.

P: Verlander, Cain, Greinke

Verlander is probably the best of our era
Cain is vastly underrated
When Greinke is on he is untouchable.

CP: Chapman

He reached what? 107 mph? crazy.

I guess we weren't picking teams but my post kind of ended up that way. whatever.

rockbottom2010
09-15-2012, 12:24 PM
i think posey is the leading candidate for NL MVP at the moment

RaiderKid318
09-15-2012, 12:42 PM
Gonna have to go ahead and say the best closer in baseball right now and all yer is kimbrel.

RaiderKid318
09-15-2012, 12:47 PM
Anddd if we are going off of RIGHT NOW then kris medlen is the best starting pitcher in baseball, all year no but right now yes.

SenorGato
09-15-2012, 12:59 PM
Cain is vastly underrated

I can't think of a more overrated pitcher out there. He's in the perfect park for his tendencies as a pitcher, and he gets treated like a true ace by fans.

Even that perfect game....ooooh the Astros...la de da.

Rush
09-15-2012, 01:34 PM
I can't think of a more overrated pitcher out there. He's in the perfect park for his tendencies as a pitcher, and he gets treated like a true ace by fans.

Even that perfect game....ooooh the Astros...la de da.

:facepalm:

You even take a shot just because his perfect game was against the Astros? Give me a ****ing break. I'm not even going to argue this because you're not going to be persuaded so I won't waste either of my time.

WadeKobe
09-15-2012, 02:19 PM
SS: Reyes

Speed and range. Helps Cabrera

People keep saying this, but it isn't true. I don't know why people think it is.

Reyes's UZR over the last 4 years: -12.6 (-4.6 UZR/150).

Reyes isn't a good fielder and clearly isn't exhibiting this wonderful "range" everyone talks about. No way is he the best in the game. It is a premium defensive position and he is below league-average, that automatically knocks him out of the conversation.



This would be a scary lineup considering that Braun probably wouldn't even bat 3rd, 4th, or 5th.


So what are you suggesting, then?

Reyes
Trout
Bautista
Votto
Miggy

I guess. Reyes is pretty overrated as an OBP threat and Trout has only one season where he has displayed this kind of power. I think you'd be better off with:

Trout
Miggy
Bautista
Votto
Braun
-
-
-
Reyes

You can utilize the base-stealing and OBP of Reyes to interact with the top of the lineup while getting better production out of 1, 2, 4, 5, which are the most important lineup positions to optimize.


Cain is vastly underrated


No he's not. He's overrated. Likewise, how can you point to him, but not Greinke, as underrated? Greinke is the most underrated pitcher in baseball.

WadeKobe
09-15-2012, 02:20 PM
:facepalm:

You even take a shot just because his perfect game was against the Astros? Give me a ****ing break. I'm not even going to argue this because you're not going to be persuaded so I won't waste either of my time.

That being as it is, Cain is still vastly overrated. So many people talk about him like he's a top5 pitcher in the MLB. He's not. He's 7-8 range.

Rush
09-15-2012, 02:37 PM
I think saying "vastly overrated" is a bit dramatic if he's only ranked two or three spots lower.

WadeKobe
09-15-2012, 02:45 PM
I think saying "vastly overrated" is a bit dramatic if he's only ranked two or three spots lower.

I use that term because of a few things:

(1) He could be as low as 10

(2) It to be a general consensus among non-SABR fans that he's among the very best

(3) Giants fans -- per their usual -- talk about him as though he's the single best pitcher in baseball.

SenorGato
09-15-2012, 02:56 PM
:facepalm:

You even take a shot just because his perfect game was against the Astros? Give me a ****ing break. I'm not even going to argue this because you're not going to be persuaded so I won't waste either of my time.

Yeah that's the reason...I won't be persuaded. It's not that it's hard to make a argument that doesn't involve his heart and soulness. 4.21 career xFIP, a park that has helped keep this heavy fly ball pitcher's HR/FB at well under league average, one season over 4 WAR...He's closer to guys like Matt Garza, Justin Masterson, Anibal Sanchez, possibly Becket, possibly Kuroda than he is the true aces in the game. His best gift is that he's been extremely stable throughout his career, a very valuable attribute for a pitcher.

As far as guys in the perfect place for their skillset, Cain would be #1 for me.

SenorGato
09-15-2012, 03:00 PM
As far as Reyes, his defense is negligible considering the fact that he out-offenses most SSs in his sleep. We're not talking a defensive butcher here anyway.

Rush
09-15-2012, 03:08 PM
I use that term because of a few things:

(1) He could be as low as 10

(2) It to be a general consensus among non-SABR fans that he's among the very best

(3) Giants fans -- per their usual -- talk about him as though he's the single best pitcher in baseball.

Giants fans knows he's a good pitcher and talk highly of him which may have people assume they think he belongs in the elite bracket, but I've never seen posts saying he's the best pitcher in baseball, maybe one of the best, but not the single best. If fans actually did believe that, that's silly. Like you, I believe he isn't a top 5 pitcher. There's a good group of guys I'd take over him- Kershaw, Verlander, Weaver, Felix, Gio, Strasburg- just off the top of my head.

WadeKobe
09-15-2012, 03:16 PM
Giants fans knows he's a good pitcher and talk highly of him which may have people assume they think he belongs in the elite bracket, but I've never seen posts saying he's the best pitcher in baseball, maybe one of the best, but not the single best. If fans actually did believe that, that's silly. Like you, I believe he isn't a top 5 pitcher. There's a good group of guys I'd take over him- Kershaw, Verlander, Weaver, Felix, Gio, Strasburg- just off the top of my head.

You're much more sensible than the rest of your fanbase. Sorry, I have a personal vendetta against SFG fans. I hope Posey doesn't win the MVP, just to spite them.

They remind me of the NYG fans of baseball. They're sort of like a girl who was always meh, but bloomed late, so in her junior year of high school got boobs and a little prettier, won prom queen, and then, even though she was nothing before hand and still wasn't the prettiest girl, walked around like her **** didn't stink all of senior year and still thought she was the **** in college, even though she was in a much larger pool of more attractive girls.

The Giants fans went from meh to winning one WS and have acted like they're just the best ever for the last couple of years. It irritates me. Just this year with Melky was a perfect example. He was the best ever until steroids, now Posey is MVP. Both on PSD and where i live in SD, it's all the same. At this point, I'd enjoy an 0-162 season for them.

/rant.

Rush
09-15-2012, 03:26 PM
Harsh.

WadeKobe
09-15-2012, 03:31 PM
Harsh.

Agreed. Wish it weren't true. I grew up a big Bonds fan and always liked the Giants growing up. After Bonds left I stopped caring about them, but never wanted to have ill-feelings towards them. Too bad. People ruin things sometimes.

d79cheese
09-15-2012, 04:16 PM
You're much more sensible than the rest of your fanbase. Sorry, I have a personal vendetta against SFG fans. I hope Posey doesn't win the MVP, just to spite them.

They remind me of the NYG fans of baseball. They're sort of like a girl who was always meh, but bloomed late, so in her junior year of high school got boobs and a little prettier, won prom queen, and then, even though she was nothing before hand and still wasn't the prettiest girl, walked around like her **** didn't stink all of senior year and still thought she was the **** in college, even though she was in a much larger pool of more attractive girls.

The Giants fans went from meh to winning one WS and have acted like they're just the best ever for the last couple of years. It irritates me. Just this year with Melky was a perfect example. He was the best ever until steroids, now Posey is MVP. Both on PSD and where i live in SD, it's all the same. At this point, I'd enjoy an 0-162 season for them.

/rant.

Normally I agree with just about everything you say (in particular in the football forum), but I think you are going way overboard here on Giants fans on this site. Most of the ridicilous Giants fans here don't post very often anymore (they either got banned for being stupid or we kinda told them to GTFO in the Giants forum). I can't think of one regular poster on the Giants forum that calls Cain one of the very top pitchers of the game. He had a tremendous first half and def. was deserving of his All Star game start, but didn't put him in the top 3-5 pitchers in the game. I can def. see him in the 8-10 range, which does not make him vastly overrated.

You are going to be disappointed at the end of the season when Posey wins the MVP because he most assurdly will. I've repeatedly said he may not be the most deserving, but he will definitely get voted in.

BTW, I love you new avatar and sig updates with Romo.

lol, please
09-15-2012, 04:28 PM
I use that term because of a few things:

(1) He could be as low as 10

(2) It to be a general consensus among non-SABR fans that he's among the very best

(3) Giants fans -- per their usual -- talk about him as though he's the single best pitcher in baseball.

How exactly is Cain overrated?

(1) Very possible.

(2) If 2 is referring to 3, I have never seen a Giants fan on PSD that doesn't factor Sabermetrics into their opinions. If you mean the MLB forum, no comment.

(3) Fans of any team get excited about players on their roster who do well. I'm not sure why you single out Giants fans about it. :shrug:

Also I am quite surprised you would hope Posey doesn't get MVP just to spite Giants fans. Very hurtful.

Krush
09-15-2012, 05:49 PM
Kershaw over Hamels anyday

MetsFanatic19
09-15-2012, 06:45 PM
Kershaw over Hamels anyday

Except for Tuesdays.

rockbottom2010
09-15-2012, 09:49 PM
Except for Tuesdays.

i would prolly put david price...hes one of the best rite now

SenorGato
09-15-2012, 10:12 PM
It might be because I haven't seen him in playoff action like the other two, but I like both Price and Hamels in a single game more than Kershaw.

You want the most underrated ace in baseball? Not Matt Cain but Cole Hamels. What he did in the 2008 playoffs at 24 has gone massively understated. The second best starting pitcher on the roster was between Jamie Moyer and Brett Myers. He's gotten better since then and has been the most consistently awesome pitcher on that roster (though that's because of Halladay's injury this year). He does it in a hitter's park too, while Cain benefits from the probably the best pitcher's park in the game. The guy has and is aging about as well as a pitcher possibly could.

Texas Holders
09-15-2012, 11:51 PM
All I did was call you out on correcting me when I wasn't wrong. I didn't misunderstand anything.

Obviously, I am just outraged and upset. :mad::mad::mad::mad::cry::cry::cry:

Except that I wasn't correcting you. My post was more or less a follow on of yours directed at the original list you quoted. I already said I agree with your posts.

Edit: looking back at my original reply, perhaps I should of quoted the list you quoted, rather than your post. Like I said though, wasn't correcting you, rather, just questioning the list you quoted.

rockbottom2010
09-16-2012, 03:45 AM
reliever jim johnson is silently making a push...but i totally forgot about rodney..they say he mite be a cy young candidate

rockbottom2010
09-16-2012, 04:37 PM
proves my point....hanley is better than reyes.....

CHRISDODGERS
09-16-2012, 06:17 PM
It might be because I haven't seen him in playoff action like the other two, but I like both Price and Hamels in a single game more than Kershaw.


He's pitched in the postseason in 08 and 09. That would be a wrong decision.

SenorGato
09-16-2012, 11:49 PM
ShiEeeeeeeeet, good call. Still think he, Price, and Hamels are basically interchangeable as the best lefties in baseball.

SACNYY
09-17-2012, 12:01 AM
Jeter is the best Shortstop in the mlb.

rockbottom2010
09-17-2012, 12:01 PM
He's pitched in the postseason in 08 and 09. That would be a wrong decision.

another thing is that kemp, kershaw, and ethier never experience the playoffs...and plus i put hamels is because he was world series mvp back in 08....and not only that...hes bound to get even better...hes only 28

Rush
09-17-2012, 12:38 PM
another thing is that kemp, kershaw, and ethier never experience the playoffs...and plus i put hamels is because he was world series mvp back in 08....and not only that...hes bound to get even better...hes only 28

Ya they have. They all played in the 2008 and 2009 Postseason.

rockbottom2010
09-17-2012, 01:36 PM
Ya they have. They all played in the 2008 and 2009 Postseason.

true..but look at kershaw's numberrs....disgusting....def b/w price and hamels...i would put sabathia there too..but hes starting to decline

Rush
09-17-2012, 01:48 PM
true..but look at kershaw's numberrs....disgusting....def b/w price and hamels...i would put sabathia there too..but hes starting to decline

I wasn't talking about anyone's numbers. I was only responding to the bolded part about you saying they don't have Postseason experience.

rockbottom2010
09-17-2012, 02:10 PM
I wasn't talking about anyone's numbers. I was only responding to the bolded part about you saying they don't have Postseason experience.

those two pitchers ive mentioned have more experience...thats why i argued that they are better than kershaw

Rush
09-17-2012, 04:18 PM
those two pitchers ive mentioned have more experience...thats why i argued that they are better than kershaw

I wasn't arguing who's better. I was merely telling you that they had playoff experience when in your initial post you said they didn't.

See here:


another thing is that kemp, kershaw, and ethier never experience the playoffs...and plus i put hamels is because he was world series mvp back in 08....and not only that...hes bound to get even better...hes only 28

I only responded to the bold part which is why I highlighted it.

rockbottom2010
09-17-2012, 04:51 PM
I wasn't arguing who's better. I was merely telling you that they had playoff experience when in your initial post you said they didn't.

See here:



I only responded to the bold part which is why I highlighted it.

recall the topic lol

Rush
09-17-2012, 04:58 PM
Huh?

rockbottom2010
09-17-2012, 07:12 PM
Huh?

this is what were talking about...the best position player....if kershaw can pitch good during the playoffs...then he would be at price/hamels level

Rush
09-17-2012, 07:26 PM
this is what were talking about...the best position player....if kershaw can pitch good during the playoffs...then he would be at price/hamels level

I'm not arguing that! Why do you keep bringing this up? I've said it three times now. I was only telling you that the three (Kemp, Kershaw, Ethier) have experience in the Postseason while you said they had zero Postseason experience. That's all I said. I wasn't talking about anything else.

Nomar
09-18-2012, 01:07 AM
Jeter is the best Shortstop in the mlb.

Desmond, Andrus, Cabrera, and Reyes are all better than Jeter.

Hes 5th in WAR among SS this year.

OpenAvalin
09-18-2012, 01:16 AM
SP: Gio Gonzalez
CP: Craig Kimbrel
C: Yadier Molina
1B: Joey Votto
2B: Dustin Pedroia / Cano
3B: Miguel Cabrera
SS: Derek Jeter
OF: Andrew McCutchen
OF: Mike Trout
OF: Ryan Braun

sexicano31
09-18-2012, 01:22 AM
Desmond, Andrus, Cabrera, and Reyes are all better than Jeter.

Hes 5th in WAR among SS this year.

I believe Rollins is up there as well

Nomar
09-18-2012, 02:35 PM
I believe Rollins is up there as well

Yeah he is above Jeter in WAR, but i cant really say hes better than Jeter. What people dont understand really is that Jeter is actually a defensive liability, not the great defender people assume he is. Rollins defense is actually what has made him more valuable than Jeter (according to fangraphs) this year.

sexicano31
09-18-2012, 02:36 PM
Exactly. He's been meh offensively but still one of the best defensively

SenorGato
09-18-2012, 02:42 PM
Jeter is actually a defensive liability, not the great defender people assume he is.

I really wonder who these people are. Beyond whoever votes for GGs I have no clue who considers him a strong defensive SS.

Nomar
09-18-2012, 02:43 PM
I really wonder who these people are. Beyond whoever votes for GGs I have no clue who considers him a strong defensive SS.

every pink hat whos seen him jump and throw a ball from the hole to 1B on ESPNs top 10

sexicano31
09-18-2012, 02:44 PM
I really wonder who these people are. Beyond whoever votes for GGs I have no clue who considers him a strong defensive SS.

Fans. Some guy on twitter called me a ****** for saying he isn't a GG SS

Nomar
09-18-2012, 02:45 PM
Fans. Some guy on twitter called me a ****** for saying he isn't a GG SS

exactly lol

http://vincesbaseballblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/derek-jeter-jump-throw.jpg

This is the exact reason why people think hes a great defensive SS

rockbottom2010
09-18-2012, 05:09 PM
gio gonzalez wins the cy young....he would be better than kershaw

Rush
09-18-2012, 05:25 PM
Um...no. Not based on one year. You always have these claims, but never back them up with evidence. Kershaw has been the better pitcher between the two over their careers.

Kershaw- 2.94 FIP/3.21 xFIP

Gio- 3.75 FIP/3.35 xFIP

rockbottom2010
09-19-2012, 01:38 PM
Um...no. Not based on one year. You always have these claims, but never back them up with evidence. Kershaw has been the better pitcher between the two over their careers.

Kershaw- 2.94 FIP/3.21 xFIP

Gio- 3.75 FIP/3.35 xFIP

gio is having a better season than kershaw....and gio is not their best pitcher

Rush
09-19-2012, 01:42 PM
gio is having a better season than kershaw....and gio is not their best pitcher

He still won't be a better pitcher than Kershaw based on one season if he wins the Cy Young like you said.

rockbottom2010
09-19-2012, 03:42 PM
He still won't be a better pitcher than Kershaw based on one season if he wins the Cy Young like you said.

remember this...the nats are in a better position than the dodgers....gio gonzalez plays well during the playoffs....book it..he will be above kershaw..and who knows...kershaw may never be the same....only time will tell on his injury

Rush
09-19-2012, 03:53 PM
remember this...the nats are in a better position than the dodgers....gio gonzalez plays well during the playoffs....book it..he will be above kershaw..and who knows...kershaw may never be the same....only time will tell on his injury

The Nats position is irrelevant to the comparison of Gio and Kershaw and who's better. I don't know you keep posting stuff like that to back up your claim when it has no meaning. One season does not mean he is better. I don't understand how you believe that. I presented facts to you but you just throw them aside like their nothing.

rockbottom2010
09-19-2012, 04:20 PM
The Nats position is irrelevant to the comparison of Gio and Kershaw and who's better. I don't know you keep posting stuff like that to back up your claim when it has no meaning. One season does not mean he is better. I don't understand how you believe that. I presented facts to you but you just throw them aside like their nothing.

u know gio gonzalez was a really good pitcher for the A's...however he didn't have run support....and the nats gave up alot for gio gonzalez....the blue jays wanted gonzalez...however they would have to give up syndergaard, sanchez, or nicolino (they are untouchable)

rockbottom2010
09-19-2012, 04:28 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/28963/clayton-kershaw
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/28962/gio-gonzalez

who said that gonzalez had one good season?

Rush
09-19-2012, 04:45 PM
u know gio gonzalez was a really good pitcher for the A's...however he didn't have run support....and the nats gave up alot for gio gonzalez....the blue jays wanted gonzalez...however they would have to give up syndergaard, sanchez, or nicolino (they are untouchable)

I gave you facts earlier and you just ignored them. Take a look again. Kershaw's careeer has been better than Gio's.

And in response to the post just above, I never said Gio had just one good season. Learn how to read posts instead of assuming things.

rockbottom2010
09-19-2012, 04:50 PM
I gave you facts earlier and you just ignored them. Take a look again. Kershaw's careeer has been better than Gio's.

And in response to the post just above, I never said Gio had just one good season. Learn how to read posts instead of assuming things.

yaa by how much...its pretty much the same...only difference is the strikeout ratio......gio gonzalez numbers improved every year....this year gonzalez took it to another level....kershaw juss took one step back.....

Rush
09-19-2012, 05:47 PM
yaa by how much...its pretty much the same...only difference is the strikeout ratio......gio gonzalez numbers improved every year....this year gonzalez took it to another level....kershaw juss took one step back.....

You have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Kershaw did NOT take a step back this year. This season is Kershaw's second best season. Gio improved but they're nearly the same this year. If you say Kershaw took a step back this year, even though he didn't, and still arguably had a better 2012 than Gio, then how can you say Gio is the better pitcher? I don't understand how you claim these ridiculous things when they're untrue and bring nothing to support them.

2012 Kershaw:
FIP- 2.94
xFIP- 3.20
ERA- 2.70
K%- 25.2
BB%- 6.5
BAA- .206
WHIP- 1.02

2012 Gio:
FIP- 2.86
xFIP- 3.35
ERA- 2.95
K%- 25.5
BB%- 9.4
BAA- .202
WHIP- 1.14

Career Kershaw:
FIP- 3.02
xFIP- 3.41
ERA- 2.84
K%- 25.4
BB%- 8.8
BAA- .211
WHIP- 1.14

Career Gio:
FIP- 3.75
xFIP- 3.81
ERA- 3.68
K%- 22.8
BB%- 10.8
BAA- .230
WHIP- 1.34

You're wrong.

rockbottom2010
09-20-2012, 12:56 PM
You have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Kershaw did NOT take a step back this year. This season is Kershaw's second best season. Gio improved but they're nearly the same this year. If you say Kershaw took a step back this year, even though he didn't, and still arguably had a better 2012 than Gio, then how can you say Gio is the better pitcher? I don't understand how you claim these ridiculous things when they're untrue and bring nothing to support them.

2012 Kershaw:
FIP- 2.94
xFIP- 3.20
ERA- 2.70
K%- 25.2
BB%- 6.5
BAA- .206
WHIP- 1.02

2012 Gio:
FIP- 2.86
xFIP- 3.35
ERA- 2.95
K%- 25.5
BB%- 9.4
BAA- .202
WHIP- 1.14

Career Kershaw:
FIP- 3.02
xFIP- 3.41
ERA- 2.84
K%- 25.4
BB%- 8.8
BAA- .211
WHIP- 1.14

Career Gio:
FIP- 3.75
xFIP- 3.81
ERA- 3.68
K%- 22.8
BB%- 10.8
BAA- .230
WHIP- 1.34

You're wrong.

he took a step back compared to last year......and kennedy was close to being cy young...but this year....its b/w GG, Cueto, and dickey

Rush
09-20-2012, 03:04 PM
he took a step back compared to last year......and kennedy was close to being cy young...but this year....its b/w GG, Cueto, and dickey

:facepalm: You still have no idea what the **** I'm talking about, do you? Is it hard for you to comprehend posts or something? You just go off on these tangents and don't stick to the subject being talked about whenever you're proven wrong, which you are. What does Kennedy have to do with anything? Again, irrelevant information brought up.

How can you leave Kershaw out of the Cy Young discussion when he's had a better season than Gio? Get a clue.

lavell12
09-20-2012, 03:04 PM
who cares which one wins the CY Young the thread is about the best player at position right now and KRIS MEDLEN is the best starting pitcher in baseball RIGHT NOW !!!

Rush
09-20-2012, 03:09 PM
who cares which one wins the CY Young the thread is about the best player at position right now and KRIS MEDLEN is the best starting pitcher in baseball RIGHT NOW !!!

Bolded part = tell that to rockbottom who's also the OP.

And Medlen has only 10 starts this season. I'm not ready to call him the best starting pitcher based on 10 starts. He's been great though.

MetsFanatic19
09-20-2012, 03:24 PM
Medlen isn't Cy Young at all but it is amazing how the Braves just don't lose when he's on the mound. I always thought he would amount to something really special, but I never thought it'd be this special.

rockbottom2010
09-20-2012, 03:49 PM
Bolded part = tell that to rockbottom who's also the OP.

And Medlen has only 10 starts this season. I'm not ready to call him the best starting pitcher based on 10 starts. He's been great though.

theres a reason why they have the cy young award...it determines the best pitcher in each league...i don't get this....

Rush
09-20-2012, 04:24 PM
.

rockbottom2010
09-21-2012, 10:19 PM
chris sale for AL cy young...hes could be up there down the road...i don't believe upton is considered top 10 OF.... according to espn he is top 10 even though hes having an off year

rockbottom2010
09-21-2012, 10:24 PM
Medlen isn't Cy Young at all but it is amazing how the Braves just don't lose when he's on the mound. I always thought he would amount to something really special, but I never thought it'd be this special.

the funny part is that he a cy young candidate....just like how cc was traded to the brewers back in 08 and he had an amazing 2nd half...and he was considered a cy young candidate at that time

Rush
09-21-2012, 10:43 PM
the funny part is that he a cy young candidate....just like how cc was traded to the brewers back in 08 and he had an amazing 2nd half...and he was considered a cy young candidate at that time

There's a difference. Sabathia had a total of 35 starts that year. Medlen has a total of 10 starts with 38 relief appearances this year. The only relief pitchers that get Cy Young nods are closers and he wasn't one. I strongly doubt he's in the discussion.

d79cheese
09-21-2012, 10:46 PM
Chris Medlen has absolutely no shot at winning the Cy Young award...Doesn't mean he isn't pitching like one of the best starters in the league right now. But you are crazy if you think he has any sort of shot at winning with 10 starts

rockbottom2010
09-21-2012, 10:50 PM
There's a difference. Sabathia had a total of 35 starts that year. Medlen has a total of 10 starts with 38 relief appearances this year. The only relief pitchers that get Cy Young nods are closers and he wasn't one. I strongly doubt he's in the discussion.

look at this...i don't know if u remembered.....look at his numbers during his time with the indians....awful...hes was a candidate for NL Cy Young with the numbers he had.....and plus he was in the AL before he got traded

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sabatc.01.shtml

Rush
09-21-2012, 11:16 PM
look at this...i don't know if u remembered.....look at his numbers during his time with the indians....awful...hes was a candidate for NL Cy Young with the numbers he had.....and plus he was in the AL before he got traded

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sabatc.01.shtml

:facepalm:

3.41 FIP
3.35 xFIP
9.05 K/9
2.50 BB/9
3.83 ERA
1.23 WHIP
.252 BAA

That's awful???

Kris Medlen will not be in the discussion for Cy Young based on 10 starts.

Just stop please.

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 08:54 PM
:facepalm:

3.41 FIP
3.35 xFIP
9.05 K/9
2.50 BB/9
3.83 ERA
1.23 WHIP
.252 BAA

That's awful???

Kris Medlen will not be in the discussion for Cy Young based on 10 starts.

Just stop please.

i didn't say that medlen is going to win the cy young...he will be considered a cy young candidate......gio gonzalez is going to win it...so he will most likely be the best left handed pitcher in the league

Rush
09-22-2012, 09:35 PM
i didn't say that medlen is going to win the cy young...he will be considered a cy young candidate......gio gonzalez is going to win it...so he will most likely be the best left handed pitcher in the league

If you actually read my posts correctly for once you would see I didn't say that you said Medlen would win. I said he won't be in the discussion which he won't just because of his 10 great starts. Read the damn posts and comprehend them correctly, would you?

PayDaPiper
09-22-2012, 09:45 PM
Craig Kimbrel will win the Cy Young before Medlen does

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 10:11 PM
If you actually read my posts correctly for once you would see I didn't say that you said Medlen would win. I said he won't be in the discussion which he won't just because of his 10 great starts. Read the damn posts and comprehend them correctly, would you?

with the stats u put....r u dumb...i told you...he was awful before he was traded....look at the numbers when he was in the indians and the numbers when he was a brewer....complete opposite..i juss said that medlen should have some sort of consideration...just like sabathia did when he went to the NL.......

Rush
09-22-2012, 10:32 PM
with the stats u put....r u dumb...i told you...he was awful before he was traded....look at the numbers when he was in the indians and the numbers when he was a brewer....complete opposite..i juss said that medlen should have some sort of consideration...just like sabathia did when he went to the NL.......

Ha. The irony of you questionibg if I'm dumb. Educate yourself on the game buddy because you're obviously lacking in that department.

By your knowledge this is awful? These are CC's numbers before he got traded:

3.41 FIP
3.35 xFIP
9.05 K/9
2.50 BB/9
3.83 ERA
1.23 WHIP
.252 BAA

That's not awful and you're wrong again.

MetsFanatic19
09-22-2012, 10:33 PM
Just because he was lights out with the Brewers doesn't mean he was awful in Cleveland. The Brewer's did give up their top prospect for him, didn't they?


Back to the predictions part, I say the CY goes to Dickey, and that's not a homer pick. I truthfully believe he has been the best pitcher in the National League this year.

Fly
09-22-2012, 10:35 PM
Just because he was lights out with the Brewers doesn't mean he was awful in Cleveland. The Brewer's did give up their top prospect for him, didn't they?


Back to the predictions part, I say the CY goes to Dickey, and that's not a homer pick. I truthfully believe he has been the best pitcher in the National League this year.

Eh, I still have Gio but I wouldn't have a problem with Dickey winning it.

MetsFanatic19
09-22-2012, 10:39 PM
With Gio now the ace of the Nationals, the best team in the league, and the way he's been pitching this year, it should be interesting to see who comes away with it.

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 10:57 PM
With Gio now the ace of the Nationals, the best team in the league, and the way he's been pitching this year, it should be interesting to see who comes away with it.

this is what i'm talking about....hes on another level......first pitcher to get 20 wins this season....and not only that.....and nats are going to get even better....this is a team that can be good for the long run

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 10:59 PM
Ha. The irony of you questionibg if I'm dumb. Educate yourself on the game buddy because you're obviously lacking in that department.

By your knowledge this is awful? These are CC's numbers before he got traded:

3.41 FIP
3.35 xFIP
9.05 K/9
2.50 BB/9
3.83 ERA
1.23 WHIP
.252 BAA

That's not awful and you're wrong again.

look at his winning record he was only 6-8....that still means alot in the mlb....

Rush
09-22-2012, 11:04 PM
look at his winning record he was only 6-8....that still means alot in the mlb....

Now I know you're trolling. Kudos for sticking with it this long.

MetsFanatic19
09-22-2012, 11:06 PM
look at his winning record he was only 6-8....that still means alot in the mlb....

I give up.

Silent
09-22-2012, 11:09 PM
C - Buster Posey
1B - Joey Votto
2B - Robinson Cano
3B - Miguel Cabrera
SS -Starlin Castro
RF - Gincarlo Stanton
CF - Mike Trout
LF - Ryan Braun
DH - Edwin Encarnacion
SRHP - Justin Verlander, Stephen Strasburg
SLHP - Chris Sale Cole Hammels
RP - Sergio Romo
CP - Fernando Rodney

Victimize
09-22-2012, 11:14 PM
I like this list. But if we are taking defense into account Jeter belongs nowhere near any of these lists. Best overall SS right now has to be between Desmond and Andrus.

If Tulo wasnt injured, he would be the runaway best overall SS.

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 11:25 PM
Now I know you're trolling. Kudos for sticking with it this long.

tell me the last pitcher who pitching record was under .500 and won the cy young award?.....oh ya not only that...ur saying that im trolling....he wasn't CC sabathia until he was traded.......if he was pitching well...he prolly would have stayed in cleveland.....and cliff lee was killing it that year

Fly
09-22-2012, 11:29 PM
look at his winning record he was only 6-8....that still means alot in the mlb....

hahahahahahahahah

ha.

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 11:32 PM
hahahahahahahahah

ha.

oh ya....cliff lee was 22-3 and ended up stayin in cleveland....so wats so funny?

Fly
09-22-2012, 11:33 PM
oh ya....cliff lee was 22-3 and ended up stayin in cleveland....so wats so funny?

your joke.. i liked your joke about wins and losses meaning something..

MetsFanatic19
09-22-2012, 11:35 PM
oh ya....cliff lee was 22-3 and ended up stayin in cleveland....so wats so funny?

What are you talking about? :laugh:

Rush
09-22-2012, 11:35 PM
tell me the last pitcher who pitching record was under .500 and won the cy young award?.....oh ya not only that...ur saying that im trolling....he wasn't CC sabathia until he was traded.......if he was pitching well...he prolly would have stayed in cleveland.....and cliff lee was killing it that year

Answer this please. If W-L record "means a lot in the mlb" like you claim then why did Felix Hernadez win a Cy Young in 2010 with 13-12 record? It's not under .500, but its pretty close. Oh and he beat out Sabathia who had a 21-7 record. Why's that? I thought W-L record "means a lot in the MLB".

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 11:36 PM
your joke.. i liked your joke about wins and losses meaning something..
w
im gonna be honest with you....its hard to win 300 games in the mlb......look at jamie moyer....he struggled so hard to win 250 games and still playing...and when roy halladay was a blue jay....he literally was the only pitcher who can get them wins......and when u win games....it sums up everything.....ERA, WAR, QS...etc.

Fly
09-22-2012, 11:38 PM
w
im gonna be honest with you....its hard to win 300 games in the mlb......look at jamie moyer....he struggled so hard to win 250 games and still player...and when roy halladay was a blue jay....he literally was the only pitcher who can get them wins......and when u win games....it sums up everything.....era, WAR, QS...etc.

thanks, i get it now. very well put.

Rush
09-22-2012, 11:40 PM
and when u win games....it sums up everything.....ERA, WAR, QS...etc.

:laugh:

MetsFanatic19
09-22-2012, 11:43 PM
w
im gonna be honest with you....its hard to win 300 games in the mlb......look at jamie moyer....he struggled so hard to win 250 games and still playing...and when roy halladay was a blue jay....he literally was the only pitcher who can get them wins......and when u win games....it sums up everything.....ERA, WAR, QS...etc.

Thanks for being honest.

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 11:45 PM
:laugh:

hey its true....look at R.A. Dickey, GG, Johnny Cueto......they are all in the same page....U don't understand the game enough...if u did...then you wouldn't be arguing

Fly
09-22-2012, 11:46 PM
hey its true....look at R.A. Dickey, GG, Johnny Cueto......they are all in the same page....U don't understand the game enough...if u did...then you wouldn't be arguing

you tell him, man!

Rush
09-22-2012, 11:49 PM
hey its true....look at R.A. Dickey, GG, Johnny Cueto......they are all in the same page....U don't understand the game enough...if u did...then you wouldn't be arguing

You're so right. I need a tutor to help me learn this winz and loss record mumbo jumbo. Are you interested?

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 11:49 PM
you tell him, man!

roy halladay was the best pitcher in the league at that time for a losing team....and the phillies gave up soo much for him

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 11:51 PM
You're so right. I need a tutor to help me learn this winz and loss record mumbo jumbo. Are you interested?

u wish the giants had kershaw.....

MetsFanatic19
09-22-2012, 11:52 PM
u wish the giants had kershaw.....

But R.A Dickey only has 19 wins?

Fly
09-22-2012, 11:52 PM
u wish the giants had kershaw.....

I'm sure he does, as Kershaw is a perennial CY candidate. What's your point?

Fly
09-22-2012, 11:53 PM
roy halladay was the best pitcher in the league at that time for a losing team....and the phillies gave up soo much for him

very nice assessment of that situation!

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 11:58 PM
I'm sure he does, as Kershaw is a perennial CY candidate. What's your point?
im being sarcastic to SFRush....Kershaw is gonna be a really good pitcher and could win a lot of games down the road.....I argued that GG is better than Kershaw by a little bit.....Kershaw had a better season last year......and both of those pitchers have similar records....however GG is in a winning team compared to Kershaw....not only that...the dodgers are blowing money away like no other day....its gonna hurt them in the long run

rockbottom2010
09-22-2012, 11:59 PM
But R.A Dickey only has 19 wins?

R.A. Dickey is having a better season than Kershaw w/o any question...and hes in his late 30s.....

rockbottom2010
09-23-2012, 12:02 AM
:laugh:

ive watched the giants even before that freak bonds was a giant.....can u recall any players during that era?

Fly
09-23-2012, 12:04 AM
R.A. Dickey is having a better season than Kershaw w/o any question...and hes in his late 30s.....

oh really? well, if you say so..

rockbottom2010
09-23-2012, 12:07 AM
oh really? well, if you say so..

I think this is just a flukey season for R.A. Dickey...hes the only pitcher left with the knuckler......he was never consider this good before that

Fly
09-23-2012, 12:12 AM
I think this is just a flukey season for R.A. Dickey...hes the only pitcher left with the knuckler......he was never consider this good before that

well, you did just change your opinion in one post... but somehow i still think you're right.

MetsFanatic19
09-23-2012, 12:13 AM
I think this is just a flukey season for R.A. Dickey...hes the only pitcher left with the knuckler......he was never consider this good before that

Please, just stop. For not only the sake of the poster around you, but for yourself. Just stop.

rockbottom2010
09-23-2012, 12:15 AM
Please, just stop. For not only the sake of the poster around you, but for yourself. Just stop.

sorry if i hurt ur feelings....since ur a mets fan...i actually like the mets at one point...but the ownership screwed everything up

MetsFanatic19
09-23-2012, 12:16 AM
sorry if i hurt ur feelings....since ur a mets fan...i actually like the mets at one point...but the ownership screwed everything up

You actually didn't hurt my feelings at all, you're just driving me insane.

rockbottom2010
09-23-2012, 12:20 AM
best closer in the league rite now is either kimbrel or rodney...rodney's numbers are insane

flea
09-23-2012, 12:25 AM
Right now = this season, not this week

P - Felix
C - Posey
1B - Votto
2B - Zobrist
3B - Cabrera
SS - Reyes
LF - Braun
CF - Trout
RF - Stanton

rockbottom2010
09-23-2012, 12:28 AM
Right now = this season, not this week

P - Felix
C - Posey
1B - Votto
2B - Zobrist
3B - Cabrera
SS - Reyes
LF - Braun
CF - Trout
RF - Stanton

cano is better at 2B...however rumors are saying that hes on PEDs......but for a long time...i considered phillips top 3

flea
09-23-2012, 12:31 AM
cano is better at 2B...however rumors are saying that hes on PEDs......but for a long time...i considered phillips top 3

They're pretty close to even, with Zobrist having a slight edge in most metrics over the last 4 years. I think Zobrist's defense and his positional flexibility make him the better player.

rockbottom2010
09-23-2012, 12:32 AM
They're pretty close to even, with Zobrist having a slight edge in most metrics over the last 4 years. I think Zobrist's defense and his positional flexibility make him the better player.

w/o question best utility man in the league

Buckwheat
09-23-2012, 12:55 AM
rockbottom is a baseball wiz.

Fly
09-23-2012, 12:59 AM
rockbottom is a baseball wiz.

Don't take His name in vain.

rockbottom2010
09-23-2012, 01:08 AM
too much criticism.....im just arguing the best of the best...nothing to do w/ pride....btw....
watch out for oscar taveras

Buckwheat
09-23-2012, 01:09 AM
too much criticism.....im just arguing the best of the best...nothing to do w/ pride....btw....
watch out for oscar taveras

Your arguments smell like my taint.

rockbottom2010
09-23-2012, 01:10 AM
Your arguments smell like my taint.

thats the best u can come up with

Buckwheat
09-23-2012, 01:13 AM
Not at all.

You spelled "you" wrong, by the way.

rockbottom2010
09-23-2012, 01:17 AM
Not at all.

You spelled "you" wrong, by the way.

who r u dr.seuss

Buckwheat
09-23-2012, 01:19 AM
Is that the best you can come up with?

Dr. Seuss wrote simplistic stories, so that really doesn't fit there too well. I'll give you another try, junior. One more shot!

MetsFanatic19
09-23-2012, 01:19 AM
who r u dr.seuss

Dr. Seuss is dead! How dare you!

Fly
09-23-2012, 01:21 AM
who r u dr.seuss

I am willing to bet $3,098,382 that that is, in fact, not Dr. Seuss.

Buckwheat
09-23-2012, 01:22 AM
I have a confession to make....

Rush
09-23-2012, 01:29 AM
u wish the giants had kershaw.....

Of course I do. But what point are you trying to make?


I argued that GG is better than Kershaw by a little bit.....Kershaw had a better season last year......and both of those pitchers have similar records....however GG is in a winning team compared to Kershaw.

No. You argued that Gio is a better pitcher than Kershaw if he wins the Cy Young this year. Even if he does, he's not better based on one season. How do you not understand that? And being on a winning team doesn't make a pitcher better. Do you not understand that either?


ive watched the giants even before that freak bonds was a giant.....can u recall any players during that era?

So you're trying to say because you've seen more baseball than me, since I assume you're older than I am (I'm 21), you think you have more baseball knowledge than me? Ha. What a jokester. Everyone can see by your posts you don't have much of it.

1-800-STFU
09-24-2012, 09:23 AM
Well this thread in entertaining.

rockbottom2010
09-24-2012, 04:19 PM
this is the reason why its called the cy young award....take a good look
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstpi.shtml

rockbottom2010
09-24-2012, 04:26 PM
Of course I do. But what point are you trying to make?



No. You argued that Gio is a better pitcher than Kershaw if he wins the Cy Young this year. Even if he does, he's not better based on one season. How do you not understand that? And being on a winning team doesn't make a pitcher better. Do you not understand that either?



So you're trying to say because you've seen more baseball than me, since I assume you're older than I am (I'm 21), you think you have more baseball knowledge than me? Ha. What a jokester. Everyone can see by your posts you don't have much of it.


Remember this.....the nationals are #1 according to espn......the two biggest pitchers are GG and SS......and not only that GG will play the first game of the ALDS....and it will determine how good hes going to be....w/o question hes on another level...and no only that......his SO, ERA, Wins, and WAR...and plus hes not even in top 10 for innings pitched....imagine that....that says it all....this is the reason why hes going to be #1 after this season....and you know what....you know how many teams regret this......

sexicano31
09-24-2012, 04:32 PM
this is the reason why its called the cy young award....take a good look
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstpi.shtml

That looks like a link to hall of fame pitchers. Nothing in there about the cy young

rockbottom2010
09-24-2012, 04:37 PM
That looks like a link to hall of fame pitchers. Nothing in there about the cy young

obviously i put it there...he has the all time record for wins...if it weren't for wins...they should have called it the sandy koufax award or the dennis eckersley award

Rush
09-24-2012, 04:41 PM
Remember this.....the nationals are #1 according to espn......the two biggest pitchers are GG and SS......and not only that GG will play the first game of the ALDS....and it will determine how good hes going to be....w/o question hes on another level...and no only that......his SO, ERA, Wins, and WAR...and plus hes not even in top 10 for innings pitched....imagine that....that says it all....this is the reason why hes going to be #1 after this season....and you know what....you know how many teams regret this......

Again, you don't respond to what I say and can never admit you're wrong. You must be a 9-year old or 85-year old going senile.

And you're right about one thing, Gio will start Game 1 of the ALDS. Oh wait...you're wrong again there too. Darn.

sexicano31
09-24-2012, 04:42 PM
So whats the point? That wins matter? Because they really dont

rockbottom2010
09-24-2012, 04:43 PM
Again, you don't respond to what I say and can never admit you're wrong. You must be a 9-year old or 85-year old going senile.

u will see who is better......u must be on diapers to understand or some ****

Rush
09-24-2012, 04:44 PM
u will see who is better......u must be on diapers to understand or some ****

:clap:

sexicano31
09-24-2012, 04:44 PM
u will see who is better......u must be on diapers to understand or some ****

Would someone like to explain what this means

Fly
09-24-2012, 04:58 PM
Would someone like to explain what this means

Apparently, if someone wears diapers that means they can't understand something.

sexicano31
09-24-2012, 05:07 PM
Apparently, if someone wears diapers that means they can't understand something.

Maybe ask MetsFan4Ever?

Fly
09-24-2012, 06:16 PM
Guys, guys, guys! He's right! That's why babies and really old people can't understand anything.

Jeffy25
09-25-2012, 10:27 AM
Remember this.....the nationals are #1 according to espn......the two biggest pitchers are GG and SS......and not only that GG will play the first game of the ALDS....and it will determine how good hes going to be....w/o question hes on another level...and no only that......his SO, ERA, Wins, and WAR...and plus hes not even in top 10 for innings pitched....imagine that....that says it all....this is the reason why hes going to be #1 after this season....and you know what....you know how many teams regret this......

When did Gio get traded to the American League?

Or did the Nationals move?


Typically, you don't have a very good Cy Young candidacy if you are not eating innings, but he is within 20 innings of everybody but Dickey.

Kershaw btw, has basically the same argument for the Cy Young at this point as Gio. Very close. And Dickey is there as well.

rockbottom2010
09-25-2012, 11:55 AM
When did Gio get traded to the American League?

Or did the Nationals move?


Typically, you don't have a very good Cy Young candidacy if you are not eating innings, but he is within 20 innings of everybody but Dickey.

Kershaw btw, has basically the same argument for the Cy Young at this point as Gio. Very close. And Dickey is there as well.

i meant to say NLDS.....look at this....hes playing for a manager who slhut down their best pitcher for the rest season...think about that..if he played more innings...hes would possibly been #1 in each category