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Mile High Champ
08-29-2012, 11:21 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last four years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. The season is now over and the Heat have been crowned NBA champs which means its time to kick off the off-season player rankings.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron was labelled by some as Choke Artist in the clutch and now this year had one of the greatest finals performances in recent memory. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 4 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best


2012 Off-Season PSD C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Andrew Bynum
3) Kevin Garnett
4) Marc Gasol
5) Tim Duncan
6) Tyson Chandler
7)
8)
9)
10)



2011 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Andrew Bynum
3) Tim Duncan
4) Andrew Bogut
5) Al Horford
6) Marc Gasol
7) Tyson Chandler
8) Joakim Noah
9) Nene
10) Al Jefferson

2010 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Andrew Bogut
4) Brook Lopez
5) Andrew Bynum
6) Marc Gasol
7) Joakim Noah
8) Al Horford
9) Al Jefferson
10) Chris Kaman

2009 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Shaquille O'Neal
5) Andrea Bargnani
6) Andris Biedrins
7) Emeka Okafor
8) Nene
9) Brook Lopez
10) Andrew Bynum

2008 Off-Season C Rankings:

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Andrew Bynum
5) Chris Kaman
6) Tyson Chandler
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Marcus Camby
9) Jermaine O'neal
10) Andrew Bogut

Mile High Champ
08-29-2012, 11:23 AM
Who is next to go. I think it is time Al Jefferson goes here as he had the most impressive year of anyone left on the board.

OKC
08-29-2012, 11:34 AM
i went with gortat.
he had a very good season and he is a bit underrated.
jefferson,horford and noah are decent choices as well.
the center position suddenly looks deep.

Hawkeye15
08-29-2012, 11:50 AM
Monroe

xxplayerxx23
08-29-2012, 12:11 PM
I went Horford. Healthy he is the best C left. Cousins and Jefferson have Legit cases here, I think they go 8-9 (In no order)

Chronz
08-29-2012, 12:16 PM
Horford again, for some odd reason

Jesse2272
08-29-2012, 12:17 PM
Al Jefferson

Killerjug
08-29-2012, 12:27 PM
i'll take Horford here then probably jefferson

koreancabbage
08-29-2012, 12:30 PM
going with Bargnani, he's the best scorer amongst the remaining candidates. But I like Horford and Jefferson as well as Hibbert. and Cousins is pretty beastly if he gets his head together and not be Zach Randolph-ish

Monroe, show me another year of growth and I'll have him here as well.

Jesse2272
08-29-2012, 12:31 PM
I just think Al Jeffs efficiency gives him the edge over monroe than Horf

+ AJ is beast master

koetravis
08-29-2012, 12:36 PM
Give me Hibbert on this one.

xxplayerxx23
08-29-2012, 12:48 PM
How great is it that Lopez won't be in the top 10 :laugh2:

koreancabbage
08-29-2012, 12:51 PM
How great is it that Lopez won't be in the top 10 :laugh2:

I will find it too difficult to not hear DMF through my hands over my ears if that truly happens LOL

DR_1
08-29-2012, 12:53 PM
Give me Noah here. Hibbert's close but sometimes it seems like his heart's not into it. But they're both better than Chandler.

greg_ory_2005
08-29-2012, 01:14 PM
I like Al Jeff for this one.

Shadrach
08-29-2012, 01:22 PM
Al Jefferson, but from here on out
you could have it go any way.

THE MTL
08-29-2012, 01:28 PM
Its called the annual best center in the NBA. Al Horford cannot be in this discussion, he was injured for basically the entire year.

Swashcuff
08-29-2012, 01:32 PM
I just think Al Jeffs efficiency gives him the edge over monroe than Horf

+ AJ is beast master

Al Jefferson is the least efficient scorer of the bunch.

Jesse2272
08-29-2012, 01:37 PM
Al Jefferson is the least efficient scorer of the bunch.

I was comparing to last season alone

nycericanguy
08-29-2012, 01:55 PM
I just think Al Jeffs efficiency gives him the edge over monroe than Horf

+ AJ is beast master

Al is not very efficient at all, shoots under 50%, and rarely gets to the FT line. For a center, those are two very unimpressive stats. Takes him over 17 shots a game to score 19ppg... again, not very impressive.

I go Hibbert here, 12.8ppg on good efficiency, good rebounding numbers, 2bpg, underrated passer, good defender and durable.

If he can get up to about 34mpg his numbers would be insane all around. Playing under 30mpg is holding him back IMO.

Swashcuff
08-29-2012, 01:55 PM
I was comparing to last season alone

Last season alone he was the least efficienct of them all.

nycericanguy
08-29-2012, 01:59 PM
Just like the Zbo voting, I don't understand how Hortford is winning here. He played a grand total of 11 games and wasn't even that impressive putting up 12 & 7. How can one possibly put him over guys like Hibbert, Cousins, Gortat..etc?

Is this a lifetime achievement award voting or something?

Chronz
08-29-2012, 02:07 PM
Al is not very efficient at all, shoots under 50%, and rarely gets to the FT line. For a center, those are two very unimpressive stats. Takes him over 17 shots a game to score 19ppg... again, not very impressive.
Yea but he has a nonexistent turnover rate. Hes a decently efficient guy but hes kind of like the Carmelo of bigmen. In order to stand out among comparable peers, he has to either improve his efficiency or passing.


I go Hibbert here, 12.8ppg on good efficiency, good rebounding numbers, 2bpg, underrated passer, good defender and durable.

The defender bit makes him a fine choice, but hes less efficient offensively than Jefferson with less touches to boot.


If he can get up to about 34mpg his numbers would be insane all around. Playing under 30mpg is holding him back IMO.

Yea, he reminds me of a young Yao Ming.

Chronz
08-29-2012, 02:09 PM
Just like the Zbo voting, I don't understand how Hortford is winning here. He played a grand total of 11 games and wasn't even that impressive putting up 12 & 7. How can one possibly put him over guys like Hibbert, Cousins, Gortat..etc?

Is this a lifetime achievement award voting or something?

If it was a lifetime achievement award, Duncan would be tops. What this is, is a benefit of the doubt rule. The guy is in the prime of his career, its not as if we just forget his all-star form from the year prior because he got hurt last year.

JasonJohnHorn
08-29-2012, 02:12 PM
How the fawk is Horford getting so many votes. I LOVE Horford, and yes, I would take him over most of the centers left on the list, BUT he only played 11 games this season and in those games only averaged like 12 points and 7 boards a game. There are five guys on this list who averaged more points and rebounds than Horford, and even if some of them aren't as good on defence as Horford is, they actually played the entire season!

Al Jefferson needs some love here. Of all the guys left he has the highest rebounding per average and the highest points per average. those two things have to count for something! hibbert, Monroe, gortat, cousins and Jefferson ALL had better seasons than Horford. How is Horford leading by such a huge margin? Obviously people are voting on past performances and NOT what was actually done this past season!

nycericanguy
08-29-2012, 02:18 PM
If it was a lifetime achievement award, Duncan would be tops. What this is, is a benefit of the doubt rule. The guy is in the prime of his career, its not as if we just forget his all-star form from the year prior because he got hurt last year.

But if 4 or 5 guys are just about equal, you should not be voting for the guy that hardly played.

nycericanguy
08-29-2012, 02:22 PM
The defender bit makes him a fine choice, but hes less efficient offensively than Jefferson with less touches to boot.[QUOTE]



How is Jefferson more efficient?

Jeff - fg% .492 1.11 points per FGA

Hibbert - .497% 1.24 points per FGA

To me points per FGA is a good measure of efficiency.

I realize Jeff has a slightly higher TS%, but that's only because he's a slightly better FT shooter. Overall hibbert scores significantly more points per official FGA.

Jesse2272
08-29-2012, 02:25 PM
Last season alone he was the least efficienct of them all.

send me a link my stat source must be on crack

Jesse2272
08-29-2012, 02:27 PM
How the fawk is Horford getting so many votes. I LOVE Horford, and yes, I would take him over most of the centers left on the list, BUT he only played 11 games this season and in those games only averaged like 12 points and 7 boards a game. There are five guys on this list who averaged more points and rebounds than Horford, and even if some of them aren't as good on defence as Horford is, they actually played the entire season!

Al Jefferson needs some love here. Of all the guys left he has the highest rebounding per average and the highest points per average. those two things have to count for something! hibbert, Monroe, gortat, cousins and Jefferson ALL had better seasons than Horford. How is Horford leading by such a huge margin? Obviously people are voting on past performances and NOT what was actually done this past season!

I was doubting myself somewhat

Jesse2272
08-29-2012, 02:28 PM
[QUOTE=Chronz;23471532]
The defender bit makes him a fine choice, but hes less efficient offensively than Jefferson with less touches to boot.



How is Jefferson more efficient?

Jeff - fg% .492 1.11 points per FGA

Hibbert - .497% 1.24 points per FGA

To me points per FGA is a good measure of efficiency.

I realize Jeff has a slightly higher TS%, but that's only because he's a slightly better FT shooter. Overall hibbert scores significantly more points per official FGA.

Ar we basing this off career or just last year?

NYYCowboys
08-29-2012, 02:32 PM
Can people please look up Jefferson's numbers before voting. The fact that he's still on the board is embarrassing.

Swashcuff
08-29-2012, 02:34 PM
send me a link my stat source must be on crack

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=monrogr01&y1=2012&p2=horfoal01&y2=2012&p3=jeffeal01&y3=2012


I was doubting myself somewhat

He was wrong. Bargnani scored more than Jeff and Cousins, Monroe, Noah and Gortat were all better rebounders. I don't know what he was thinking.

Swashcuff
08-29-2012, 02:35 PM
How the fawk is Horford getting so many votes. I LOVE Horford, and yes, I would take him over most of the centers left on the list, BUT he only played 11 games this season and in those games only averaged like 12 points and 7 boards a game. There are five guys on this list who averaged more points and rebounds than Horford, and even if some of them aren't as good on defence as Horford is, they actually played the entire season!

Al Jefferson needs some love here. Of all the guys left he has the highest rebounding per average and the highest points per average. those two things have to count for something! hibbert, Monroe, gortat, cousins and Jefferson ALL had better seasons than Horford. How is Horford leading by such a huge margin? Obviously people are voting on past performances and NOT what was actually done this past season!

They do but you're wrong.

Chronz
08-29-2012, 02:44 PM
But if 4 or 5 guys are just about equal, you should not be voting for the guy that hardly played.

True, I think I used that line of reasoning against Rose and for Westbrook but in this situation Horford will go into the season healthy and ready.

Chronz
08-29-2012, 02:45 PM
How is Jefferson more efficient?

Jeff - fg% .492 1.11 points per FGA

Hibbert - .497% 1.24 points per FGA

To me points per FGA is a good measure of efficiency.
To statisticians, its a poor mans PPP. You cant ignore all aspects of efficiency to highlight your favorite player

SugeKnight
08-29-2012, 02:49 PM
I went Horford. Healthy he is the best C left. Cousins and Jefferson have Legit cases here, I think they go 8-9 (In no order)

Actually, that's Bogut

Jesse2272
08-29-2012, 02:55 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=monrogr01&y1=2012&p2=horfoal01&y2=2012&p3=jeffeal01&y3=2012



He was wrong. Bargnani scored more than Jeff and Cousins, Monroe, Noah and Gortat were all better rebounders. I don't know what he was thinking.

Thanks

Looking at just the season I cant consider Horford-amount of games played

I still give the slight edge to Al Jeff, I get the efg and Ts but everything else slightly leans to AJ IMO as an overal eval

last season alone

JasonJohnHorn
08-29-2012, 04:12 PM
Is hibbert getting all these votes because he made the all-star team and got a big contract?

IndyHeatjman
08-29-2012, 06:06 PM
Is hibbert getting all these votes because he made the all-star team and got a big contract?

^The contract has nothing to do with why i voted. He defenitely needs to be somewhere in the Top 10 IMO. So im gonna vote for him until he makes it,lol. He's gotten better every year, and a stand-up guy as well. He put up double-double numbers in the playoffs, also a promising shot blocker with putting up the 2nd most in a game last season at 9 blocked shots.

GoPacers33
08-29-2012, 07:20 PM
should be Roy

unleashthebeast
08-29-2012, 07:38 PM
Either Al here. I personally prefer Horford

FraziersKnicks
08-29-2012, 07:54 PM
Went with Horford but was deciding between him, Monroe and Cousins.

Side note: The center position is nowhere near as weak as some people say it is, at least not now anyway. There's about 10 very good centers in the league and another 5/6 very solid ones. Monroe and Cousins are only gonna get better as well. Shooting guard has definitely taken over as the weakest position in the league.

floater
08-30-2012, 12:47 AM
andrew bogut and joakim noah are so much better than horford and jefferson. this is crazy.

Lakers + Giants
08-30-2012, 02:38 AM
I check who voted lopez and it's DMF :laugh2:

Mile High Champ
08-30-2012, 10:12 AM
Very tight race. Jefferson, Hibbert and Horford are all within 2 votes of each other.

nycericanguy
08-30-2012, 10:43 AM
shocking that Hortford who played 10 games and put up 12 & 7 is getting the nod over Hibbert who played all the games, and was a key piece in his team nearly beating MIA and going to the ECF.

I don't get the logic in that at all.

mike44
08-30-2012, 12:34 PM
When healthy, which he is going into this year, its Horford

Jesse2272
08-30-2012, 12:46 PM
Im a little confused with AH and the whole vote

Are we to consider Horford based solely on last years production or perceived production of this season while including seasons past?

StarvingKnick22
08-30-2012, 01:01 PM
Do you do the top 10 NBBA Players after this?

Mile High Champ
08-30-2012, 01:15 PM
Im a little confused with AH and the whole vote

Are we to consider Horford based solely on last years production or perceived production of this season while including seasons past?

Who is the best player right now. It is hard to say to people "don't take injuries into account". Some people do and others don't. Going into this season with all things considered, who is currently the best player at this point.

Jesse2272
08-30-2012, 01:31 PM
Who is the best player right now. It is hard to say to people "don't take injuries into account". Some people do and others don't. Going into this season with all things considered, who is currently the best player at this point.

I gotcha

b@llhog24
08-30-2012, 02:52 PM
shocking that Hortford who played 10 games and put up 12 & 7 is getting the nod over Hibbert who played all the games, and was a key piece in his team nearly beating MIA and going to the ECF.

I don't get the logic in that at all.

In most of the polls i voted for production but for whatever reason when i reached the center poll i started to vote by who is actually the better player which Horford is. :shrug:

SaimuKala
08-30-2012, 03:49 PM
Do you do the top 10 NBBA Players after this?

That would be cool.

b@llhog24
09-01-2012, 08:40 AM
Do you do the top 10 NBBA Players after this?

Yes.