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Mile High Champ
08-27-2012, 01:34 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last four years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. The season is now over and the Heat have been crowned NBA champs which means its time to kick off the off-season player rankings.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron was labelled by some as Choke Artist in the clutch and now this year had one of the greatest finals performances in recent memory. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 4 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best


2012 Off-Season PSD C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Andrew Bynum
3) Kevin Garnett
4) Marc Gasol
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)



2011 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Andrew Bynum
3) Tim Duncan
4) Andrew Bogut
5) Al Horford
6) Marc Gasol
7) Tyson Chandler
8) Joakim Noah
9) Nene
10) Al Jefferson

2010 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Andrew Bogut
4) Brook Lopez
5) Andrew Bynum
6) Marc Gasol
7) Joakim Noah
8) Al Horford
9) Al Jefferson
10) Chris Kaman

2009 Off-Season C Rankings

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Shaquille O'Neal
5) Andrea Bargnani
6) Andris Biedrins
7) Emeka Okafor
8) Nene
9) Brook Lopez
10) Andrew Bynum

2008 Off-Season C Rankings:

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Andrew Bynum
5) Chris Kaman
6) Tyson Chandler
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Marcus Camby
9) Jermaine O'neal
10) Andrew Bogut

SugeKnight
08-27-2012, 01:35 PM
Between Horford and Chandler for me

NYMetros
08-27-2012, 01:37 PM
Horford

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-27-2012, 01:48 PM
Went Horford last time and will do so again.


Note: Poll has Bynum on it:laugh2:

SugeKnight
08-27-2012, 01:48 PM
Going with the DPOY, especially since Horford was hurt

Swashcuff
08-27-2012, 01:49 PM
Timmy here for me

I Rock Shaqs
08-27-2012, 01:54 PM
Why does Al Jefferson constantly get over-looked.

seikou8
08-27-2012, 01:57 PM
why did marc gasol win The 4 spot he is overrated

koetravis
08-27-2012, 01:57 PM
I went Bynum on this one... :laugh: First time ever someone being on the list twice!

Mile High Champ
08-27-2012, 02:02 PM
Made a mistake. 2nd option should be Andrew Bogut. Can a mod fix it?

Ill21
08-27-2012, 02:22 PM
Bynum

still1ballin
08-27-2012, 02:35 PM
I went Bynum.

still1ballin
08-27-2012, 02:35 PM
Come on guys! Lets pull for Bynum to win at #5!!

Jetsguy
08-27-2012, 02:39 PM
Chandler - Should have went 4

SteBO
08-27-2012, 03:38 PM
Made a mistake. 2nd option should be Andrew Bogut. Can a mod fix it?
Fixed.

SteBO
08-27-2012, 03:39 PM
Tim Duncan here for me. Horford would be alright here too.

IndyHeatjman
08-27-2012, 03:55 PM
Voted Duncan...Gasol got 4th? Overrated by far IMO. I think Jefferson, Horford, and Chandler are all better than Marc... Duncan is too.

MP.Trey
08-27-2012, 04:02 PM
Duncan head and shoulders above the rest, it will be interesting from this point on.

mike44
08-27-2012, 04:08 PM
Horford

StarvingKnick22
08-27-2012, 04:08 PM
Tyson.

Kashmir13579
08-27-2012, 04:14 PM
Tyson getting shafted?

Swashcuff
08-27-2012, 04:22 PM
Why are Knicks fans this butt hurt over Tyson? I mean yeah he was extremely valuable and does have a solid case here but so does damn near everyone else getting votes. Its extremely close between Chandler, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol, Horford and maybe even Hibbert and not forgetting Monroe, Cousins and Jefferson. These players really aren't seperated by that much all things considered.

Gasol, Duncan and Garnett are hands down the best all round players of that bunch and really don't have any glaring weaknesses in their games that's why they went earlier. Tyson's limited offensive arsenal is not to make up for his DPOY calibre D when you consider who was ahead of him. He isn't being hated on or anything other players just have very solid arguments as does Tyson.

knicksfan42
08-27-2012, 04:36 PM
Why are Knicks fans this butt hurt over Tyson? I mean yeah he was extremely valuable and does have a solid case here but so does damn near everyone else getting votes. Its extremely close between Chandler, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol, Horford and maybe even Hibbert and not forgetting Monroe, Cousins and Jefferson. These players really aren't seperated by that much all things considered.

Gasol, Duncan and Garnett are hands down the best all round players of that bunch and really don't have any glaring weaknesses in their games that's why they went earlier. Tyson's limited offensive arsenal is not to make up for his DPOY calibre D when you consider who was ahead of him. He isn't being hated on or anything other players just have very solid arguments as does Tyson.


You know what I don't mind Garnett and Duncan going over Tyson, but Gasol has no case, none.


Make a case please. Make a case for Gasol over Tyson.


Tyson is a much better defender Gasol. Tyson is a much better rebounder than Gasol (17.2 TRB vs 14.3 TRB). So Gasol isn't even a decent rebounder.


Oh offensive arsenal limited huh? Fair enough, though there is the whole highest TS% in NBA history to consider. Yea 11 PPG on best TS% in NBA history vs. 14.6 PPG on a 54% TS. Naw not enough to make up for the fact that Chandler is both a much better defender and rebounder.

Swashcuff
08-27-2012, 04:51 PM
Make a case please. Make a case for Gasol over Tyson.


Tyson is a much better defender Gasol. Tyson is a much better rebounder than Gasol (17.2 TRB vs 14.3 TRB). So Gasol isn't even a decent rebounder.


Oh offensive arsenal limited huh? Fair enough, though there is the whole highest TS% in NBA history to consider. Yea 11 PPG on best TS% in NBA history vs. 14.6 PPG on a 54% TS. Naw not enough to make up for the fact that Chandler is both a much better defender and rebounder.

His TS% was amazing and I have spoken about this before however you also have to take his USG% into consideration when looking at a player's TS%. He really didn't have a high USG% by any means.

As for Tyson being a much better defender than Gasol I really don't buy it. The difference between them on that end of the floor in all honesty in minimal with Tyson having greater impact but Gasol having just as good an individual statistical claim on that end of the floor as Tyson.

Gasol is also a better offensive player (you can actually pass the ball into the post if you need a big basket) than Tyson Chandler. Sure efficiency is great but what about his effectiveness, his reliability. I am not some idiot who's going to come in here and say some bull like all Tyson does is score off lobs because I've seen enough of him to know better than that but even you would admit that as compared to Gasol his offensive repetoire is extremely limited and that's putting it lightly. We saw it in Gold Medal Olympic how good Gasol is offensively.

I still haven't mentioned the fact that Gasol is a top 5 passing C in the league while Tyson probably isn't top 20 in that regard.

All and all I think Gasol's all round game makes up for the fact that he wasn't a better rebounder, more effecient scorer and more impactful defensively.

Though the post season was a small sample size I think everyone can agree that Tyson really didn't show up while Gasol continued to play at a high level.

The_Jamal
08-27-2012, 04:52 PM
You know what I don't mind Garnett and Duncan going over Tyson, but Gasol has no case, none.


Make a case please. Make a case for Gasol over Tyson.


Tyson is a much better defender Gasol. Tyson is a much better rebounder than Gasol (17.2 TRB vs 14.3 TRB). So Gasol isn't even a decent rebounder.


Oh offensive arsenal limited huh? Fair enough, though there is the whole highest TS% in NBA history to consider. Yea 11 PPG on best TS% in NBA history vs. 14.6 PPG on a 54% TS. Naw not enough to make up for the fact that Chandler is both a much better defender and rebounder.

Classic. 1. Chandler isn't all that much better a defender than Gasol 2. Using TS% to state "Player A>Player B offensively" is absolutely nuts. As Swash said, after Howard and Bynum, you could make a solid case for 6 or 7 guys to take the #3 spot.

Anywho, I'm going Al Jefferson here. His offense has been severely underrated for quite some time, he's always been a strong rebounder, he was a #1 option on a playoff team, and he's dramatically improved his defense. I barely trust any of the remaining centers outside of DeMarcus to be a #2 option on a winning squad

NYYCowboys
08-27-2012, 04:52 PM
I voted for Chandler because to be honest I didn't really look at anyone else on the list, but after doing some research I would say Al Jefferson is by far the best left on this list, and I would go as far to say that KG and Gasol shouldn't be ahead of him.

DR_1
08-27-2012, 05:04 PM
Duncan, then Bogut, then Noah

PocketKings
08-27-2012, 05:17 PM
I went with Tyson Chandler here.

I was really close to going with Duncan but I think Chandler impacts a game far more than Duncan these days. I know Duncan is a key cog still in San Antonio but I might be one with the thought process that his game/impact has really declined. I'll admit Duncan is a more skilled player than Chandler is even today but as far as just a way to impact the game on a consistent basis I've got to give it to Chandler.

mrblisterdundee
08-27-2012, 05:19 PM
Kevin Garnett at No. 3 is the big mistake of this poll - he should be on the list but in the bottom half. It's the popularity of a player giving them an undeserved ranking. Other than Garnett, I'd say the poll is fairly logical. Tyson Chandler should be next, considering he won Defensive Player of the Year. The only thing that would hurt him is that he plays for the Knicks, which bolsters his defensive stats because nobody else on his team plays a reasonable amount of defense.

knicksfan42
08-27-2012, 05:20 PM
His TS% was amazing and I have spoken about this before however you also have to take his USG% into consideration when looking at a player's TS%. He really didn't have a high USG% by any means.


I'm sure you do have to take USG% into account, but it was the best mark in NBA history.



As for Tyson being a much better defender than Gasol I really don't buy it. The difference between them on that end of the floor in all honesty in minimal with Tyson having greater impact but Gasol having just as good an individual statistical claim on that end of the floor as Tyson.

You don't have to buy it, I've watched them both and there is no question to me that Gasol is a significantly worse defender than Chandler. I can tell you that the Knicks would have been no better than 15 defensively with Gasol.


Tyson took the Knick from 22nd to 5th defensively.


Gasol is also a better offensive player (you can actually pass the ball into the post if you need a big basket) than Tyson Chandler. Sure efficiency is great but what about his effectiveness, his reliability. I am not some idiot who's going to come in here and say some bull like all Tyson does is score off lobs because I've seen enough of him to know better than that but even you would admit that as compared to Gasol his offensive repetoire is extremely limited and that's putting it lightly. We saw it in Gold Medal Olympic how good Gasol is offensively.

I admit Gasol has a greater offensive arsenal than Chandler and that Chandler's arsenal is limited. It just doesn't matter to me. If Gasol was a high volume scorer it would matter, but he isn't. He scores 3.3 PPG more on a 20% lower FG%. I don't give a **** about someone's arsenal at that point.



I still haven't mentioned the fact that Gasol is a top 5 passing C in the league while Tyson probably isn't top 20 in that regard.


This is insignificant. It would matter to me if he put up some extraordinary passing numbers for a big man like KG or Webber put up at one point or Kidd put up for guards in rebounding, he isn't.




All and all I think Gasol's all round game makes up for the fact that he wasn't a better rebounder, more effecient scorer and more impactful defensively.


Not even close. Other than the fact that Chandler was a better defender than Gasol, a much better rebounder than Gasol, and in a different league efficiency wise than Gasol, he also had better advanced across the board. Now Swash if you could please tell me why Chandler having better advanced stats across the board than Gasol doesn't put him over the top?



Though the post season was a small sample size I think everyone can agree that Tyson really didn't show up while Gasol continued to play at a high level.

I think the sample size was so small that it doesn't say anything about either player and that its a bit disingenuous to even bring it up. There is also the fact that Chandler played sick and with an injured wrist.

JasonJohnHorn
08-27-2012, 05:22 PM
How are people voting for Horford when he played like five games this season? Seriously?

I voted tim Duncan, but, I've been voting for Tim Duncan every round of votes save the first one. I'm surprised that he is in the lead though. I thought Hibbert would be getting some more love than he has been.

The_Jamal
08-27-2012, 05:28 PM
I went with Tyson Chandler here.

I was really close to going with Duncan but I think Chandler impacts a game far more than Duncan these days. I know Duncan is a key cog still in San Antonio but I might be one with the thought process that his game/impact has really declined. I'll admit Duncan is a more skilled player than Chandler is even today but as far as just a way to impact the game on a consistent basis I've got to give it to Chandler.

It came down to Tyson and Jefferson for me. What swayed me is I trust Jefferson to be a solid defender more than I trust Tyson to be a dependable offensive scoring option. Al Jeff is probably post-offensive player in the game today and I like the fact he lead a playoff team with very little guard help as a #1 option in the West. Tyson just doesn't have the 2-way credentials that Al Jeff or Timmy do.

PocketKings
08-27-2012, 05:37 PM
It came down to Tyson and Jefferson for me. What swayed me is I trust Jefferson to be a solid defender more than I trust Tyson to be a dependable offensive scoring option. Al Jeff is probably post-offensive player in the game today and I like the fact he lead a playoff team with very little guard help as a #1 option in the West. Tyson just doesn't have the 2-way credentials that Al Jeff or Timmy do.

Can't argue with that line of thinking either. I think Chandler, Timmy D, and Jefferson should be the next 3 centers in some fashion/order.

DoMeFavors
08-27-2012, 05:52 PM
From looking at this poll is Roy Hibbert the worst all star of all time?

The_Jamal
08-27-2012, 05:53 PM
Can't argue with that line of thinking either. I think Chandler, Timmy D, and Jefferson should be the next 3 centers in some fashion/order.

That's what's so intriguing about the C position in today's game. After Howard and Bynum you could reasonably put:

Gasol
Gortat
Horford
Cousins
KG
Duncan
Chandler
Al Jeff

in that #3 spot and have a solid argument for doing so

Swashcuff
08-27-2012, 06:43 PM
I'm sure you do have to take USG% into account, but it was the best mark in NBA history.

I said it like 4 times in the last 3 threads I know.


You don't have to buy it, I've watched them both and there is no question to me that Gasol is a significantly worse defender than Chandler. I can tell you that the Knicks would have been no better than 15 defensively with Gasol.

You gotta come much better than that in all honesty. Sell to me exactly what are the things that Tyson does SOOO much better than Gasol defensively. You telling me this does not change my opinion without some sort of reasoning.


Tyson took the Knick from 22nd to 5th defensively.

The Bulls went from the 11th best defensive team in the NBA to the best defensive team. Why? Coach Tom Thibodeau. Let's no act as though coach Mike Woodson one of the best defensive coaches in the entire NBA didn't have anything to do with that. Not to mention Shumpert, Landry (who regressed on that side of the court but was still a solid player).


I admit Gasol has a greater offensive arsenal than Chandler and that Chandler's arsenal is limited. It just doesn't matter to me. If Gasol was a high volume scorer it would matter, but he isn't. He scores 3.3 PPG more on a 20% lower FG%. I don't give a **** about someone's arsenal at that point.

Quite frankly if that's your trend of thought you would never understand why Gasol is better than Chandler. You have tunnel vision.


This is insignificant. It would matter to me if he put up some extraordinary passing numbers for a big man like KG or Webber put up at one point or Kidd put up for guards in rebounding, he isn't.

The fact that you just said that this is insignificant leads me to believe that you obviously don't watch the Grizzlies play as much as you claim. You don't see when they run plays for Gasol in the low block where he does what very few Cs in the game today can which is effectively play the role of a facilitating big. You seem not to understand how effective this was for their offense when they have slashers such as Gay, Mayo and Allen on their team.


Not even close. Other than the fact that Chandler was a better defender than Gasol, a much better rebounder than Gasol, and in a different league efficiency wise than Gasol, he also had better advanced across the board. Now Swash if you could please tell me why Chandler having better advanced stats across the board than Gasol doesn't put him over the top?


First off did you see me say that Gasol had better advanced stats across the board? No I didn't. I said Gasol is a better all round player and if anyone is going to say otherwise they clearly don't watch basketball enough. Being a better all round player and having better stats are two totally different things.

Tell me this. 2 minutes left to go in the game you need a bucket your star perimeter player fouled out early, can you dump the ball down inside to Tyson Chandler and expect him to create a shot for himself or a teammate? NO. How on earth then can he be considered a better all round player than Gasol?

Marc Gasol is a multidimensional player with one of the best skill sets at the position, to go along with soft hands, a high IQ, top caliber passing ability, extremely versatile offensive and defensive player with great defensive instincts and offensive awareness. Is that not more well rounded that what you were alluded to with Tyson?

Oh and do you want stats? Well here are some. In terms of 82games.com simple rating (http://www.82games.com/1112/ROLRTG8.HTM) Marc Gasol was 16th in the league with a 7.9 SRTG Tyson barely cracked the top 50. Also according to 82games.com when Gasol was off the floor the Grizzlies allowed 4.9 more Pts per 100 Possessions (http://www.82games.com/1112/11MEM18.HTM#onoff) and scored 7.0 less Pts per 100 Possessions. Now as for Tyson when he was off the floor the Knicks actually scored more Pts per 100 Possessions (http://www.82games.com/1112/11NYK16.HTM#onoff) and allowed 1.2 more Pts per 100 Possessions.

Would you like to go accord to RAPM (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking_rec)? According RAPM Gasol was also more valuable on both ends of the floor.


Name O/ 100 D/ 100 O+D/ 200
Gasol 0.6 3.0 3.6
Tyson -0.9 2.4 1.4

Gasol also generated more DWS/48 than Tyson Chandler did last season.

Do you want more?


I think the sample size was so small that it doesn't say anything about either player and that its a bit disingenuous to even bring it up. There is also the fact that Chandler played sick and with an injured wrist.

Its the playoffs everyone is injured everyone is sick. That's really not an excuse.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-27-2012, 06:47 PM
How are people voting for Horford when he played like five games this season? Seriously?

I voted tim Duncan, but, I've been voting for Tim Duncan every round of votes save the first one. I'm surprised that he is in the lead though. I thought Hibbert would be getting some more love than he has been.

Maybe because he's still talented enough to be the 5th best player. Clearly know he'll produce when he's healthy.

DR_1
08-27-2012, 07:14 PM
That's what's so intriguing about the C position in today's game. After Howard and Bynum you could reasonably put:

Gasol
Gortat
Horford
Cousins
KG
Duncan
Chandler
Al Jeff

in that #3 spot and have a solid argument for doing so

I think Noah, Monroe, and Bogut also have arguments. Gortat is stretching it a bit tho IMO

b@llhog24
08-27-2012, 07:37 PM
Tyson had the better season, Gasol is the better player.

tredigs
08-27-2012, 08:12 PM
Healthy? Bogut. We'll see how he returns. I'm expecting a big year for the Aussie here in GS. Went 3rd and 4th the past 2 years. That's where I see him going forward.

IversonIsKrazy
08-27-2012, 08:15 PM
Timmy!

tredigs
08-27-2012, 08:30 PM
There really is a case for like 7 players here though. Kind of an interesting position. 3 through 10 are interchangeable.

floater
08-27-2012, 08:44 PM
andrew bogut deserves way more love. he was consensus top 3 behind howard/bynum not too long ago.

unleashthebeast
08-27-2012, 09:17 PM
Has to be Chandler or Duncan here, this one is tough. Im going to have to think for a while longer.

Swashcuff
08-27-2012, 09:28 PM
andrew bogut deserves way more love. he was consensus top 3 behind howard/bynum not too long ago.

While I agree with this not too long ago Al Jefferson, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan were all considered as PFs and Monroe, Cousins, Chandler and Hibbert really weren't in the conversation. I actually had Bogut at #2 but the fact that that was more than a year almost two years ago and the C position has gotten better I'd like to see him as healthy as he can possibly be before I rank him ahead of some of these guys.

DoMeFavors
08-27-2012, 09:30 PM
Defense doesnt make someone a top position, fact is Tyson hasnt learned any offense in 10 years and is a journey man, zero post up, zero jump shot, cant pass, cant shoot free throws. Duncan and half the other people are better.

seikou8
08-27-2012, 09:40 PM
Defense doesnt make someone a top position, fact is Tyson hasnt learned any offense in 10 years and is a journey man, zero post up, zero jump shot, cant pass, cant shoot free throws. Duncan and half the other people are better.

:facepalm:

mrblisterdundee
08-27-2012, 09:40 PM
I voted for Chandler because to be honest I didn't really look at anyone else on the list, but after doing some research I would say Al Jefferson is by far the best left on this list, and I would go as far to say that KG and Gasol shouldn't be ahead of him.

I think Kevin Garnett's placement at the third position ruined this entire post. He is not the third best - period. There's a point when you have to admit that age has caught up with him, coupled with the fact that he's scrawny and can be pushed around in the post by a lot of power forwards. The mere fact that he went ahead of Duncan is blasphemy, but I'd say Gasol, Jefferson, Chandler, Hibbert, Lopez and a healthy Bogut and Horford are also better than him at this point at the center position. Garnett should be at the bottom of this list, and the Celtics should probably get a real center. Hopefully Fab Mello pans out; I think Garnett is the perfect guy to make him and Jared Sullinger defensive forces.

knicks=love
08-27-2012, 10:03 PM
i'm actually shocked DoMeFavors didn't vote for brook lopez.. :faint:

but i'm not surprised at all that CousinsEvansDuo voted for cousins.

tredigs
08-27-2012, 10:09 PM
I think Kevin Garnett's placement at the third position ruined this entire post. He is not the third best - period. There's a point when you have to admit that age has caught up with him, coupled with the fact that he's scrawny and can be pushed around in the post by a lot of power forwards. The mere fact that he went ahead of Duncan is blasphemy, but I'd say Gasol, Jefferson, Chandler, Hibbert, Lopez and a healthy Bogut and Horford are also better than him at this point at the center position. Garnett should be at the bottom of this list, and the Celtics should probably get a real center. Hopefully Fab Mello pans out; I think Garnett is the perfect guy to make him and Jared Sullinger defensive forces.

Really? Age has caught up with him, but Garnett was absolutely still a complete beast out there. He was one of the best 10-20 players to ever play the game - age can only hurt a player so much when he's that good and still in great shape.

He had a solid 16/8/3 line on solid efficiency playing nearly every night, led the entire league in D. rating, played great in the playoffs. Arguably the Celtics best player throughout the year. I don't know - pretty solid case to be made for both him and Tim starting at #3, and I might lean KG. For ou to think it's "Blasphemy" to have him over Duncan at this point is just plain wrong. It's a debate. Like I mentioned earlier though, 3 through 10 or so each have a case over each other in one aspect or another.

DoMeFavors
08-27-2012, 10:11 PM
i'm actually shocked DoMeFavors didn't vote for brook lopez.. :faint:

but i'm not surprised at all that CousinsEvansDuo voted for cousins.

I would if people didnt underate him and see him as a top center 2 yrs ago he was number 4 here

Swashcuff
08-27-2012, 10:56 PM
I think Kevin Garnett's placement at the third position ruined this entire post. He is not the third best - period. There's a point when you have to admit that age has caught up with him, coupled with the fact that he's scrawny and can be pushed around in the post by a lot of power forwards. The mere fact that he went ahead of Duncan is blasphemy, but I'd say Gasol, Jefferson, Chandler, Hibbert, Lopez and a healthy Bogut and Horford are also better than him at this point at the center position. Garnett should be at the bottom of this list, and the Celtics should probably get a real center. Hopefully Fab Mello pans out; I think Garnett is the perfect guy to make him and Jared Sullinger defensive forces.

Someone CLEARLY doesn't watch basketball.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-27-2012, 11:36 PM
i'm actually shocked DoMeFavors didn't vote for brook lopez.. :faint:

but i'm not surprised at all that CousinsEvansDuo voted for cousins.

To be fair to CED, he's got a pretty good case to go here.

Hellcrooner
08-27-2012, 11:55 PM
bogut is the most complete on both sides of the court remaining.
And i refuse to vote tim D, he should ahve been in the pf list like in past years.

Kashmir13579
08-28-2012, 12:33 AM
The Bulls went from the 11th best defensive team in the NBA to the best defensive team. Why? Coach Tom Thibodeau. Let's no act as though coach Mike Woodson one of the best defensive coaches in the entire NBA didn't have anything to do with that. Not to mention Shumpert, Landry (who regressed on that side of the court but was still a solid player).


Swash, the Knicks were a top 10 defensive team all year long. I'm not one to be a homer. I really try not to. I've seen a lot of horrible defensive Knick teams over the years, Tyson turned that ship around before Woody was handed the keys.

Defensive player of the year
led the NBA in TS%
5th in Win Shares
8th in WS/48

He really had a great season.

Its also on record by Dirk and others that Tyson was the main catalyst in solidifying a championship defense in Dallas.


All-Star and Mavericks franchise player Dirk Nowitzki compared the addition of Tyson to another big off-season acquisition by a team that immediately went onto a successful title run just a few years ago:

"It's almost like when KG went to Boston," Nowitzki said. "I don't think Ray Allen or Paul Pierce were great defenders before KG got there, but KG with his energy and influence and high octane kind of changed the whole mentality of the defense."


One argument for Gasol could be Tyson's flu-ridden performance in the playoffs. But i wouldn't make that argument.

Iggz53
08-28-2012, 12:45 AM
Easily Duncan here for me.

LJEATON26
08-28-2012, 01:32 AM
I voted for Chandler, since Duncan and Brand are Power Forwards.

JOhnnyTHaJet
08-28-2012, 02:02 AM
Damn, almost every Tyson vote is from a Knicks fan.

Dade County
08-28-2012, 02:22 AM
Timmy

BranWingss
08-28-2012, 02:49 AM
Tim Duncan followed by Tyson Chandler and Al Horford for me. Duncan still plays at a super high level, though of course he's passed his peak.

knicksfan42
08-28-2012, 06:11 AM
Damn, almost every Tyson vote is from a Knicks fan.

Good, Tyson doesn't deserve it over Duncan, but he sure as hell deserves 5th place and to be ranked above Marc Gasol.

Swashcuff
08-28-2012, 08:21 AM
Swash, the Knicks were a top 10 defensive team all year long. I'm not one to be a homer. I really try not to. I've seen a lot of horrible defensive Knick teams over the years, Tyson turned that ship around before Woody was handed the keys.

Defensive player of the year
led the NBA in TS%
5th in Win Shares
8th in WS/48

I'm not denying any of this as I aknowledged all this before. I know you're not being a homer my point is just that its not that bad that Tyson wasn't chosen earlier because other players also had solid arguments.


He really had a great season.

Its also on record by Dirk and others that Tyson was the main catalyst in solidifying a championship defense in Dallas.

Indeed he was actually a huge in the Heat not being able to even generate a steady offense.


One argument for Gasol could be Tyson's flu-ridden performance in the playoffs. But i wouldn't make that argument.

Thing is though regardless Gasol still played well and by some metrics he even upped his game.

Swashcuff
08-28-2012, 08:22 AM
Good, Tyson doesn't deserve it over Duncan, but he sure as hell deserves 5th place and to be ranked above Marc Gasol.

Its interesting that you would make this claim after not replying to my post.

knicks=love
08-28-2012, 08:44 AM
I would if people didnt underate him and see him as a top center 2 yrs ago he was number 4 here

If you thought he was good here, YOU would've voted for him.


To be fair to CED, he's got a pretty good case to go here.

Nah. I'll give him top 10 but not top 5

mike44
08-28-2012, 10:23 AM
Two years ago Horford put up 15.3, 9.3, 3.5, TS% of .587, 20.7 PER, .179 WS/48. Those are better numbers than gasol and duncan of last year. I know he was injured last year but he looked strong in the 3 games he played in in the playoffs, plus it should be his team now that Joe is gone.

valade16
08-28-2012, 11:47 AM
This really puts the whole Roy Hibbert offseason hoopla in perspective. A Max deal for a player and looking at this list not only do people generally not think he's the 5th best Center in the league, they really don't think he's the 6th or 7th best one either.

(for the record, neither do I).

Munkeysuit
08-28-2012, 12:25 PM
I went with Noah, the dude is the hardest working of them all

greg_ory_2005
08-28-2012, 01:09 PM
I went with Duncan. If Horford and Bogut were fully healthy last year, that might have changed my decision. Hopefully those two get healthy for the upcoming season.

DR_1
08-28-2012, 02:20 PM
Knicks fans all voting for Chandler :laugh2: