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View Full Version : Jeff Francoeur worst player in mlb?



OpenAvalin
08-26-2012, 06:47 PM
This was via yahoo:
"We always save the worst for last because sabermetrics isn't always about celebrating achievements and accomplishments. Numbers give us something tangible with which we can judge a player against his peers, against his predecessors, against Babe Ruth if we truly want. The preferred tool today is Wins Above Replacement. FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference both have proprietary versions; each is marred by its inclusion of defensive metrics but good enough to give a decent idea of what's what.
And they agree: The worst player in baseball this year is Kansas City outfielder Jeff Francoeur.
FanGraphs says he has been worth -1.7 WAR, which means by using a replacement-level player some bum from Triple-A the Royals actually would have won two more games. B-R is even harsher: The site has Francoeur at -3.0 WAR, which ranks as the 11th-worst season for an offensive player since 1901.
With a dreadful August and September, Francoeur could threaten the season both sites agree is the worst ever: Jerry Royster's 1977 with Atlanta, a -3.7 FanGraphs and -4.1 B-R debacle. The utilityman hit .216/.278/.288 and, the metrics say, played brutal defense. Francoeur isn't that bad, at .240/.287/.372, with a major league-leading 14 outfield assists, but as Wil Myers sits at Triple-A with a .311/.389/.603 line, 35 home runs and the title of best hitting prospect in the minors, it cannot be anything short of maddening for Royals fans to swallow where part of the cost of their ticket will go."

nickster16301
08-26-2012, 07:00 PM
rod barajas...only in Pittsburgh cause of aj burnett... otherwise he would be in a retirement home

VRP723
08-26-2012, 07:02 PM
I thought today that Matt Treanor might be the worst.

dodgernation
08-26-2012, 07:02 PM
juan uribe

jej
08-26-2012, 07:04 PM
He isnt the worst. WAR might say he is, but he still has a cannon, and has hit well before.

sexicano31
08-26-2012, 07:15 PM
What's his oWAR? I'd rather look at that than his cumulative WAR since UZR is typically factored into WAR

VRP723
08-26-2012, 07:19 PM
There are countless worse players. He might have been the least valuable, but that's only because he's played too much. If someone like Matt Treanor or Chris Coghlan got 500 PA's they'd blow that WAR out of the water.

JDIsMyGod23
08-26-2012, 07:21 PM
White Sox intentionally walked him three times, twice in a game.

guilfomania
08-26-2012, 07:25 PM
Jason Bay

fulltiltdodger
08-26-2012, 07:25 PM
Juan Uribe, matt treanor, James Loney would have to disagree

FraziersKnicks
08-26-2012, 07:42 PM
Jason Bay

Sick Of It All
08-26-2012, 07:56 PM
Jason Bay and is not even close.

...but I just saw that Francouer has a lower WAR and I will just say wow.

stlcardsfan
08-26-2012, 08:02 PM
Jeff Francoeur isn't Tyler Greene.

Thank god the Cardinals got rid of that bum.

Jeffy25
08-26-2012, 08:05 PM
He might be the dumbest, but worst?

there are worse guys out there.

OpenAvalin
08-26-2012, 08:48 PM
He might be the dumbest, but worst?

there are worse guys out there.

How is he dumb?

Jeffy25
08-26-2012, 09:00 PM
How is he dumb?

He is probably the most quotable 'I hate sabrmetrics' player in baseball.

There is a video of him giving a post-game interview where he said '"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?'

In the video, behind Franky was the Braves scoreboard and it had OBP right behind his head.

That he thinks more guys threw complete games when he came up then today (not true) which is an explanation why he is doing worse today.

The fact he still focuses on hitting fly balls with men on base when you need a base hit. He goes for the home run.

He just isn't a very bright baseball guy. He has a lot of quotes that are really just rather funny. I'm sure he is a good guy, but he is also very quotable in the saber-world for saying stupid stuff.

dodgerdave
08-26-2012, 09:07 PM
This was via yahoo:
"We always save the worst for last because sabermetrics isn't always about celebrating achievements and accomplishments. Numbers give us something tangible with which we can judge a player against his peers, against his predecessors, against Babe Ruth if we truly want. The preferred tool today is Wins Above Replacement. FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference both have proprietary versions; each is marred by its inclusion of defensive metrics but good enough to give a decent idea of what's what.
And they agree: The worst player in baseball this year is Kansas City outfielder Jeff Francoeur.
FanGraphs says he has been worth -1.7 WAR, which means by using a replacement-level player some bum from Triple-A the Royals actually would have won two more games. B-R is even harsher: The site has Francoeur at -3.0 WAR, which ranks as the 11th-worst season for an offensive player since 1901.
With a dreadful August and September, Francoeur could threaten the season both sites agree is the worst ever: Jerry Royster's 1977 with Atlanta, a -3.7 FanGraphs and -4.1 B-R debacle. The utilityman hit .216/.278/.288 and, the metrics say, played brutal defense. Francoeur isn't that bad, at .240/.287/.372, with a major league-leading 14 outfield assists, but as Wil Myers sits at Triple-A with a .311/.389/.603 line, 35 home runs and the title of best hitting prospect in the minors, it cannot be anything short of maddening for Royals fans to swallow where part of the cost of their ticket will go."

Give make a break. Just look up Juan Uribe's numbers.

AWC713
08-26-2012, 09:15 PM
the astros say hi

sincerely,
brian bogusevic

Ian.
08-26-2012, 09:35 PM
Miguel Olivo:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1638&position=C

Or

Yuniesky Betancourt:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8585&position=SS

Awful. truly awful players.

YEDN90
08-26-2012, 09:54 PM
Francouer has a -3.2 WAR according to BR

Damn..

utl768
08-26-2012, 09:57 PM
jason bay says hello

Ill21
08-26-2012, 10:09 PM
Free Wil Myers

Jeffy25
08-26-2012, 10:17 PM
Free Wil Myers

No kidding


And to think they gave Franky the two year extension and let Melky walk :facepalm: PED's or not, this obsession with toolsy players like Franky has got to stop. Instead of good players like Myers

MetsFanatic19
08-26-2012, 10:28 PM
Robert
Allen
Dickey



Wait...

JLynn943
08-26-2012, 10:33 PM
Worse than Bay? wow.

metswon69
08-26-2012, 10:39 PM
Yeah how is Francoeur worse than a guy hitting .152 with 6 homers and 14 rbis making 16 million dollars a year?

It's Jason Bay.

ATL#22
08-26-2012, 10:44 PM
I think there is some confusion. There are obviously worse players but I think he is the worst starter

LASportsFan1996
08-26-2012, 10:58 PM
Matt Treanor says hello...

metswon69
08-26-2012, 11:01 PM
Matt Treanor says hello...

Mike Nickeas was about every bit as bad as Matt Treanor btw when he was still up here but it's still Jason Bay.

Driven
08-26-2012, 11:04 PM
There are countless worse players. He might have been the least valuable, but that's only because he's played too much. If someone like Matt Treanor or Chris Coghlan got 500 PA's they'd blow that WAR out of the water.
Absolutely. Francouer has been horrible this year. People who are *****ing about this and saying something like "Jason Bay", either didn't read the article or don't know how to use WAR effectively.

And I really don't know how much of a difference Francouer's arm (or anyone's) really makes in baseball. Not really preventing many base runners with that, IMO.

ciaban
08-26-2012, 11:06 PM
Juan Uribe, matt treanor, James Loney would have to disagree
no, he really isn't that bad, but if you genuinely think he is, then you forgot Juan Rivera

He is probably the most quotable 'I hate sabrmetrics' player in baseball.

There is a video of him giving a post-game interview where he said '"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?'

In the video, behind Franky was the Braves scoreboard and it had OBP right behind his head.

That he thinks more guys threw complete games when he came up then today (not true) which is an explanation why he is doing worse today.

The fact he still focuses on hitting fly balls with men on base when you need a base hit. He goes for the home run.

He just isn't a very bright baseball guy. He has a lot of quotes that are really just rather funny. I'm sure he is a good guy, but he is also very quotable in the saber-world for saying stupid stuff.
there is nothing wrong with hitting fly balls, so long as their not pop-ups, something that i felt J.T. Snow was very under rated for, was that he would always get the runner home, if their is less that 2 outs with a runner on 3rd, J.T got them home, always got them home, with a single a sac fly, something, he always seemed to make productive outs.


also, he is the nicest most approachable player in baseball , I was at an A's royals game in the Colosseum, I'm friends with some of the people in the RF bleacher crew(the ones with the drums and flags) and he seemed to appreciate their passion, so between innings when players come out to warm up he brought out an extra ball with a $100 bill wrapped around it, and threw it up to us and said, "hey guys beer and hotdogs are on me!" coolest guy in baseball.

No kidding


And to think they gave Franky the two year extension and let Melky walk :facepalm: PED's or not, this obsession with toolsy players like Franky has got to stop. Instead of good players like Myers
well, think of it this way, your in last place and playing him, you may as well try to get something, also, in the article it talks about how the reason he is ranked so low is because of his horrible slump through July and August. Also, they might not want to start the clock on Will Myers yet, and if your an organization like the orioles/royals/rays etc there is nothing wrong with that, unless your in a pennant hunt!


oh and they didn't let melky walk, they traded him for Johnathan Sanchez, which might be worse

Yankee Clipper
08-26-2012, 11:06 PM
Russell Martin ****ing sucks. Probably more than Francoeur.

Jeffy25
08-26-2012, 11:10 PM
there is nothing wrong with hitting fly balls, so long as their not pop-ups, something that i felt J.T. Snow was very under rated for, was that he would always get the runner home, if their is less that 2 outs with a runner on 3rd, J.T got them home, always got them home, with a single a sac fly, something, he always seemed to make productive outs.

The specific quote I am referring to I can't seem to locate. But Francouer was interviewed by Rob Neyer and he was talking about two out hitting with men on base, something Francouer is awful at. And Francouer said he doesn't change his plate approach regardless of the situation, and that he believes he is a fly ball hitter that should try to hit home runs.

So runner on third, two outs? He won't go for the more likely situational based ground ball to score the runner (ground balls are base hits much more often than fly balls, but fly balls lead to extra base hits) based on the situation. That he thinks it's stupid to change your plate approach based on the situation.


also, he is the nicest most approachable player in baseball , I was at an A's royals game in the Colosseum, I'm friends with some of the people in the RF bleacher crew(the ones with the drums and flags) and he seemed to appreciate their passion, so between innings when players come out to warm up he brought out an extra ball with a $100 bill wrapped around it, and threw it up to us and said, "hey guys beer and hotdogs are on me!" coolest guy in baseball.
I had heard about that, it's actually a somewhat famous story, that was to you?

Bravo95
08-26-2012, 11:11 PM
Should've stuck with football.

ATL#22
08-26-2012, 11:12 PM
Matt Treanor says hello...

Still isn't a starter

mattz1212
08-26-2012, 11:16 PM
The only reason Francoeur is the worst is because the Royals have to be the worst judge of player performance in the MLB. Hell they not only let Yuniesky Betancourt start for a season and a half, they welcomed him back with open arms this season after getting all that time to watch his horridness first hand.

metswon69
08-26-2012, 11:24 PM
Absolutely. Francouer has been horrible this year. People who are *****ing about this and saying something like "Jason Bay", either didn't read the article or don't know how to use WAR effectively.

And I really don't know how much of a difference Francouer's arm (or anyone's) really makes in baseball. Not really preventing many base runners with that, IMO.

People who are using the Jason Bay argument are making the case for him in regards to what he is supposed to be in relation to his current production.

Yeah maybe Francoeur has been the worst starter in the major leagues this year but he has had history of bad seasons like this before (2008 and 2010) and the truth is the Royals are probably playing him because at 6 million dollars that's a hefty investment for them.

Our only saving grace with Jason Bay this year has been the fact that he has been injured so often (even though that's horrible to say) otherwise he could legitimately compete for the worst stats an everyday player has ever had in the modern baseball era.

Yes even worse than Dunn was last year..

ciaban
08-26-2012, 11:26 PM
The specific quote I am referring to I can't seem to locate. But Francouer was interviewed by Rob Neyer and he was talking about two out hitting with men on base, something Francouer is awful at. And Francouer said he doesn't change his plate approach regardless of the situation, and that he believes he is a fly ball hitter that should try to hit home runs.

So runner on third, two outs? He won't go for the more likely situational based ground ball to score the runner (ground balls are base hits much more often than fly balls, but fly balls lead to extra base hits) based on the situation. That he thinks it's stupid to change your plate approach based on the situation.


I had heard about that, it's actually a somewhat famous story, that was to you?
if you can't find it then it doesn't exist!!!!!! JKLOL yeah i said he is super nice, not a rocket scientist

and yeah i was at that game with my buddy who is the most loyal A's fan in the world Will McNeil, i have seen him skip work, skip tests, loose jobs etc all to go to A's games, and I'm not talking about big games or important games, like he lost a job to watch a Baltimore orioles @ Oakland in like 2007 so i have experienced some interesting things at the Coliseum

and the ball wasn't too me directly, it was a gift from him to like the 6 of us, up there i didn't catch the ball if that's what you were wondering

Young2Kinsler
08-26-2012, 11:31 PM
Michael Young is the worst everyday player in baseball, hands down.

Jays Claw
08-26-2012, 11:43 PM
Where does Kelly Johnson rank? He's been poop this year.

Jeffy25
08-26-2012, 11:46 PM
The only reason Francoeur is the worst is because the Royals have to be the worst judge of player performance in the MLB. Hell they not only let Yuniesky Betancourt start for a season and a half, they welcomed him back with open arms this season after getting all that time to watch his horridness first hand.

It's exactly this.

They are horrible at assessing talent, and DM has such a Braves fetish that he can't get over tools rather than baseball skills. He can't separate the two.

FalcoBro8
08-27-2012, 12:06 AM
Drew Butera, Twins backup catcher, cant hit to save his life, doesnt even play anymore now that Pavano is done for the year, only reason he was on the team this year, and the fact that Gardy absolutely loves him.

Pinstripe pride
08-27-2012, 09:14 AM
he's defiently not the worst

blams
08-28-2012, 12:16 AM
White Sox intentionally walked him three times, twice in a game.

:nod:



:laugh:

Yankees90.
08-28-2012, 12:44 AM
Ok, so it has been said before, but I can't resist....how the hell is it not Jason Bay??? I don't mean to take cheap shots because there are not many who work harder than Bay, but the guy has literally done nothing. You want to talk about a guy who's career took a big U-Turn....at least Franceour, who I absolutely cannot stand, will hit you some dingers and throw out some guys time to time at first base from RF lol

Nolson8540
08-28-2012, 01:08 AM
Heath Bell!!!!

Pinstripe pride
08-28-2012, 08:34 AM
Russell Martin ****ing sucks. Probably more than Francoeur.

got to love that 190 BA!