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Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 03:00 PM
It has to be the dodgers now!!!!
Doesn't it?

Victorino
Ellis
Kemp
Gonzalez
Ramirez
Ethier
Cruz
Ellis

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 03:06 PM
It has to be the dodgers now!!!!
Doesn't it?

Victorino
Ellis
Kemp
Gonzalez
Ramirez
Ethier
Cruz
Ellis

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

uhhh no.


Cardinals are still better

wOBA

1. Jay - .341
2. Beltran - .366
3. Holliday - .382
4. Craig - .406
5. Freese - .365
6. Molina - 387
7. Furcal - .305
8. Carpenter/Schumaker - .366/.341

Compared to the Dodgers lineup

1. Victorino - .317 (.281 w Dodgers)
2. Ellis - .321
3. Kemp - .411
4. Gonzalez - .346
5. Ramirez - .341 (.384 w Dodgers)
6. Ethier - .346
7. Cruz - .347
8. Ellis - .351

Not hard to top it

Kemp is better than Jay, and Hanley is better than Furcal. The rest of the Dodgers lineup is inferior to the Cardinals

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 03:15 PM
uhhh no.


Cardinals are still better

wOBA

1. Jay - .341
2. Beltran - .366
3. Holliday - .382
4. Craig - .406
5. Freese - .365
6. Molina - 387
7. Furcal - .305
8. Carpenter/Schumaker - .366/.341


Compared to the Dodgers lineup

1. Victorino - .317 (.281 w Dodgers)
2. Ellis - .321
3. Kemp - .411
4. Gonzalez - .346
5. Ramirez - .341 (.384 w Dodgers)
6. Ethier - .346
7. Cruz - .347
8. Ellis - .351

Not hard to top it

Kemp is better than Jay, and Hanley is better than Furcal. The rest of the Dodgers lineup is inferior to the Cardinals

ahhh cardinals have a tough lineup but when dodgers play cardinals nobody really scares the **** out of me not even holliday/beltran

in dodgers lineup you got kemp/gonzalez who no one wants to face plus hanley/dre i mean its really tough plus we have a way way better balance of speed contact and power

I think dodgers are a lt better then the cards lineup... u still have a good one tho

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 03:15 PM
I'd probably argue that the Yankees or Rangers still have the best lineup, but it's difficult to argue NL vs AL teams for best lineup because of the DH.

The Cardinals don't use a DH, but Berkman would probably be their guy if he was healthy. But NL team's don't sign a guy to DH for them.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 03:17 PM
ahhh cardinals have a tough lineup but when dodgers play cardinals nobody really scares the **** out of me not even holliday/beltran

in dodgers lineup you got kemp/gonzalez who no one wants to face plus hanley/dre i mean its really tough plus we have a way way better balance of speed contact and power

I think dodgers are a lt better then the cards lineup... u still have a good one tho

Kemp/Gonzalez have combined for less production this year than Holliday/Beltran fwiw


And Craig has out hit Hanley by a good amount.

Not trying to be argumentative, but it is reality. The Cardinals don't have the Pujols star anymore, but everybody but Furcal hits in the lineup.

They have three bench bats right now that are better than league average offensive players. That says something.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 03:19 PM
Also, the Tigers and Brewers both belong in the discussion.


Ranks this season wRC+

1. Yankees - 113
2. Cardinals - 111
3. Angels - 111
4. Rangers - 108
5. Tigers - 105
26. Dodgers - 87

CHRISDODGERS
08-25-2012, 03:20 PM
ahhh cardinals have a tough lineup but when dodgers play cardinals nobody really scares the **** out of me not even holliday/beltran

in dodgers lineup you got kemp/gonzalez who no one wants to face plus hanley/dre i mean its really tough plus we have a way way better balance of speed contact and power

I think dodgers are a lt better then the cards lineup... u still have a good one tho

shhhhh. stop talking

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 03:22 PM
you guys are going too much off statistics here

Kemp
Ramirez
Cruz
Gonzalez
Victorino

^^^Those guys have barely played for the dodgers lol thats why statistically theyre not good offensively

plus Ellis and Ethier have also missed time

and to the guy that commented Holliday/Beltran have put up better numbers then Kemp/Gonzalez this season...who cares kemp/Gonzo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Holliday/Beltran dont even try to say theyre not

sager729
08-25-2012, 03:22 PM
In the NL I would take the Cards and in the AL I take the Rangers. Dodgers are pretty good now and Yankees, White Sox, Angels and Tigers are have very good lineups.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 03:26 PM
if everyone in the dodgers lineup played the whole year together I can almost guarantee LAD would have the best numbers statisically.... maybe an AL would be better but that's just because of the DH

D Blue987
08-25-2012, 03:27 PM
Dodgers have the best lineup in the NL. Kemp and Gonzo> Holiday and Beltran. Plus Hanley and Ethier> Berkman and Molina. Dodgers have a complete lineup now top to bottom that can hit and drive in runs. Will they remains to be seen but on paper they are top dogs now. I am being a bit of a homer I know but they certainly arent worse than the cards by any means.

Greedy22
08-25-2012, 03:33 PM
you guys are going too much off statistics here

Kemp
Ramirez
Cruz
Gonzalez
Victorino

^^^Those guys have barely played for the dodgers lol thats why statistically theyre not good offensively

plus Ellis and Ethier have also missed time

and to the guy that commented Holliday/Beltran have put up better numbers then Kemp/Gonzalez this season...who cares kemp/Gonzo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Holliday/Beltran dont even try to say theyre not

What does them not playing or barely playing for the dodgers have to do with their production this year? lol. Well you were talking about right now who has the best line up so it should be taken into consideration that holliday/beltran have been better this year, quit being a homer.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 03:35 PM
and to the guy that commented Holliday/Beltran have put up better numbers then Kemp/Gonzalez this season...who cares kemp/Gonzo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Holliday/Beltran dont even try to say theyre not

What on earth are you basing this on? Their names being house-hold names?

Holliday and Beltran have created a combined 168 runs thus far this season
Kemp and Gonzalez have created a combined 134 runs thus far this season

Not to mention Allen Craig has out-hit Adrian the last two years as well, and isn't far behind Kemp

2011-2012
Kemp - .416 wOBA, 169 wRC+
Adrian - .380 wOBA, 136 wRC+
Craig - .403 wOBA, 159 wRC+
Beltran - .379 wOBA, 143 wRC+
Holliday - .388 wOBA, 149 wRC+


Not to mention Berkman, who will be back on Tuesday
Berkman - .397 wOBA, 156 wRC+


And then you add in that Freese, Jay, and Molina have each out hit Hanley

Hanley - .331 wOBA, 106 wRC+

I can't see what you are gunning for here.


You say we need to throw the statistics out,then what the heck is your basis for saying the Dodgers lineup is better? Their names? The Dodgers are going to actually have to catch the Cardinals first before you can claim them as the better lineup.

Greedy22
08-25-2012, 03:36 PM
if everyone in the dodgers lineup played the whole year together I can almost guarantee LAD would have the best numbers statisically.... maybe an AL would be better but that's just because of the DH

Now you're changing the subject from they are the best to if everyone played together. It's a very sexy line up on paper, but let them play together before claiming they're the best offense in baseball.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 03:37 PM
Dodgers have the best lineup in the NL. Kemp and Gonzo> Holiday and Beltran. Plus Hanley and Ethier> Berkman and Molina. Dodgers have a complete lineup now top to bottom that can hit and drive in runs. Will they remains to be seen but on paper they are top dogs now. I am being a bit of a homer I know but they certainly arent worse than the cards by any means.

this.

Greedy22
08-25-2012, 03:37 PM
What on earth are you basing this on? Their names being house-hold names?

Holliday and Beltran have created a combined 168 runs thus far this season
Kemp and Gonzalez have created a combined 134 runs thus far this season

Not to mention Allen Craig has out-hit Adrian the last two years as well, and isn't far behind Kemp

2011-2012
Kemp - .416 wOBA, 169 wRC+
Adrian - .380 wOBA, 136 wRC+
Craig - .403 wOBA, 159 wRC+
Beltran - .379 wOBA, 143 wRC+
Holliday - .388 wOBA, 149 wRC+


Not to mention Berkman, who will be back on Tuesday
Berkman - .397 wOBA, 156 wRC+


And then you add in that Freese, Jay, and Molina have each out hit Hanley

Hanley - .331 wOBA, 106 wRC+

I can't see what you are gunning for here.


You say we need to throw the statistics out there, then what the heck is your basis for saying the Dodgers lineup is better? Their names? The Dodgers are going to actually have to catch the Cardinals first before you can claim them as the better lineup.

Jeffy, you are the god of the MLB forum...great post :)

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 03:40 PM
What on earth are you basing this on? Their names being house-hold names?

Holliday and Beltran have created a combined 168 runs thus far this season
Kemp and Gonzalez have created a combined 134 runs thus far this season

Not to mention Allen Craig has out-hit Adrian the last two years as well, and isn't far behind Kemp

2011-2012
Kemp - .416 wOBA, 169 wRC+
Adrian - .380 wOBA, 136 wRC+
Craig - .403 wOBA, 159 wRC+
Beltran - .379 wOBA, 143 wRC+
Holliday - .388 wOBA, 149 wRC+


Not to mention Berkman, who will be back on Tuesday
Berkman - .397 wOBA, 156 wRC+


And then you add in that Freese, Jay, and Molina have each out hit Hanley

Hanley - .331 wOBA, 106 wRC+

I can't see what you are gunning for here.


You say we need to throw the statistics out,then what the heck is your basis for saying the Dodgers lineup is better? Their names? The Dodgers are going to actually have to catch the Cardinals first before you can claim them as the better lineup.

yeah but Kemp missed half the year...everyone knows what Kemp actually is...the best!!! top 3 at the very least...and gonzalez struggled early but look what he's been doing

northsider
08-25-2012, 03:40 PM
No I would def. take the Rangers over them without hesitation. Then maaayybbbeeee I would start to put the Dodgers in consideration but, one could argue a few other teams over them as well.

Yankee Clipper
08-25-2012, 03:41 PM
Still think the Rangers have the best lineup from top to bottom.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 03:42 PM
Let's go down the greater than arrows lineup then, shall we?

Dodgers vs Cardinals
C Molina > Ellis
1B Craig > Gonzalez (don't believe me, compare their numbers since Craig came to the big leagues)
2B Schumaker/Desclaso = Ellis
SS Furcal < Hanley
3B Freese > Cruz
LF Holliday > Victorino
CF Jay < Kemp
RF Beltran > Ethier

I think there is a relevant discussion about the Cardinals vs the Rangers and Yankees, but with the added DH, it's a difficult direct comparison. And the Tigers and Angels each have decent lineups as well, and should draw a comparison.

TrueYankee
08-25-2012, 03:42 PM
I would personally go...

Rangers
Yankees
Cardinals
Dodgers

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 03:46 PM
Let's go down the greater than arrows lineup then, shall we?

Dodgers vs Cardinals
C Molina > Ellis
1B Craig > Gonzalez (don't believe me, compare their numbers since Craig came to the big leagues)
2B Schumaker/Desclaso = Ellis
SS Furcal < Hanley
3B Freese > Cruz
LF Holliday > Victorino
CF Jay < Kemp
RF Beltran > Ethier

I think there is a relevant discussion about the Cardinals vs the Rangers and Yankees, but with the added DH, it's a difficult direct comparison. And the Tigers and Angels each have decent lineups as well, and should draw a comparison.

oh come on dude....beltran>Ethier????
Molina>Ellis?????
Craig over Gonzalez???????????????????????

Plus Kemp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jay not just Kemp>Jay
Ramirez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Furcal not just ramirez>Furcal


U can have your opinions but those are not facts

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 03:48 PM
Going by best players with both teams combined...

Kemp
Gonzalez
Ramirez
Holliday
Ethier
Beltran
Craig
Victorino
Freese
Ellis
Molina
so on

northsider
08-25-2012, 03:48 PM
oh come on dude....beltran>Ethier????
Molina>Ellis?????
Craig over Gonzalez???????????????????????

Plus Kemp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jay not just Kemp>Jay
Ramirez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Furcal not just ramirez>Furcal


U can have your opinions but those are not facts

Actually you're right it's more like...

Beltran>>>>>>>>>Ethier
Molina>>>>>Ellis.

I mean you truly don't think either of them are better then those 2 right or are you filling up your homer cup as you type?

Those are facts.

Greedy22
08-25-2012, 03:48 PM
oh come on dude....beltran>Ethier????
Molina>Ellis?????
Craig over Gonzalez???????????????????????

Plus Kemp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jay not just Kemp>Jay
Ramirez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Furcal not just ramirez>Furcal


U can have your opinions but those are not facts

You are such a homer lol...Beltran is having a much better year than Ethier, Molina mops the floor with Ellis, Craig has also been better than AGon this year, quit looking at the names and look at their productiob.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 03:48 PM
yeah but Kemp missed half the year...everyone knows what Kemp actually is...the best!!! top 3 at the very least...and gonzalez struggled early but look what he's been doing

Have to be on the field to have value.



And over the last 30 days
Allen Craig - .431 wOBA (5th best in MLB), 177 wRC+ (4th best)

Adrian Gonzalez - .411 wOBA, 158 wRC+


btw, Molina is way ahead of them both

And in the same time, Kemp has struggled down to a .368 wOBA and a 135 wRC+, which is comparable to both Holliday and Beltran.


I'm not trying to be a homer, if I wasn't a Cards fan, this would be the easy argument to pick. The Cardinals still have the best offense and lineup in the National League. The Dodgers are resurrecting one of the worst offensive teams in baseball by adding some hitters to help Kemp, who other than Ellis and Ethier, was by himself.

1903
08-25-2012, 03:49 PM
oh come on dude....beltran>Ethier????
Molina>Ellis?????
Craig over Gonzalez???????????????????????

Plus Kemp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jay not just Kemp>Jay
Ramirez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Furcal not just ramirez>Furcal


U can have your opinions but those are not facts

:laugh:

Greedy22
08-25-2012, 03:49 PM
Actually you're right it's more like...

Beltran>>>>>>>>>Ethier
Molina>>>>>Ellis.

I mean you truly don't think either of them are better then those 2 right or are you filling up your homer cup as you type?

:laugh: At first I thought this was a troll thread, but wow.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 03:52 PM
Molina is have a better season then i thought so i apologize on that but Ethier is better then beltran imo beltrans numbers are slightly better but i'd take Dre

northsider
08-25-2012, 03:52 PM
Going by best players with both teams combined...

Kemp
Gonzalez
Ramirez
Holliday
Ethier
Beltran
Craig
Victorino
Freese
Ellis
Molina
so on

I am super confused on how Ethier and his .805ops is better then Beltran and his .872?? Or Beltrans 133wRC+ to Etheir's 119wRC+, or Beltrans .248ISO to Ethiers .168.

otatop
08-25-2012, 03:54 PM
You say we need to throw the statistics out,then what the heck is your basis for saying the Dodgers lineup is better?
It's simple: They have to be better because they're the Dodgers. Science.


Molina is have a better season then i thought so i apologize on that but Ethier is better then beltran imo beltrans numbers are slightly better but i'd take Dre
See?

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 03:55 PM
keep in mine that dodgers play in the NL WEST = AMAZING PITCHING and IMPOSSIBLE HITTERS PARKS ...excluding Rockies that's why the numbers are down put dodgers hitters in the cardinals position and tell me what u think then

1903
08-25-2012, 03:56 PM
oh come on dude....beltran>ethier????
Molina>ellis?????
Craig over gonzalez???????????????????????

Plus kemp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>jay not just kemp>jay
ramirez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>furcal not just ramirez>furcal


u can have your opinions but those are not facts



molina is have a better season then i thought so i apologize on that but ethier is better then beltran imo beltrans numbers are slightly better but i'd take dre

So you just let your opinion rule over the facts.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 03:56 PM
oh come on dude....beltran>Ethier????
Molina>Ellis?????
Craig over Gonzalez???????????????????????

Plus Kemp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jay not just Kemp>Jay
Ramirez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Furcal not just ramirez>Furcal


U can have your opinions but those are not facts

Yeah, they are facts actually.

This is easy, and you are making it even easier for me.


in 2012

Beltran > Ethier

Beltran - .276/.348/.524 - .366 wOBA, 133 wRC+ - Runs Created - 77

Ethier - .284/.352/.453 - .346 wOBA, 119 wRC+ - Runs Created - 66


Molina > Ellis

Molina - .328/.379/.518 - .387 wOBA, 148 wRC+ - Runs Created - 76

Ellis - .281/.387/.426 - .351 wOBA, 123 wRC+ - Runs Created - 56

Craig > Gonzalez

Craig - .318/.379/.582 - .406 wOBA, 160 wRC+ - Runs Created - 67

Gonzalez - .300/.343/.469 - .346 wOBA, 114 wRC+ - Runs Created - 74


Want me to keep going? This is childs play it's so obvious.


All you are doing is saying that so and so is better, and you haven't provided one single statistic or reason behind your assumption other than how you feel.

The numbers easily support my argument.

northsider
08-25-2012, 03:57 PM
Molina is have a better season then i thought so i apologize on that but Ethier is better then beltran imo beltrans numbers are slightly better but i'd take Dre

LOL not to be a prick but, thats like saying "You're right but, for the sake of my argument I will be wrong and admit it".

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 03:59 PM
keep in mine that dodgers play in the NL WEST = AMAZING PITCHING and IMPOSSIBLE HITTERS PARKS ...excluding Rockies that's why the numbers are down put dodgers hitters in the cardinals position and tell me what u think then

That's why we use park-adjusted numbers, and not just homers to compare offensive players.

The parks are adjusted my friend, Cardinals actually play in a bit of a pitchers park.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 04:01 PM
I am super confused on how Ethier and his .805ops is better then Beltran and his .872?? Or Beltrans 133wRC+ to Etheir's 119wRC+, or Beltrans .248ISO to Ethiers .168.

beltan has 20 more AB's maybe not a lot but hey that could translate into 10 more hits 4 homers and 10 RBI's ... (due to Ethiers injury earlier)

Beltran plays against average NL Central Pitching as where Ethier plys against dominate NL west pitching ex. I dont see Beltran having to face Cain, Bumgarnder, Vogelsong, Miley, etc... on a daily basis pretty much

and the reason Beltrans power numbers are better is the fact he plays at a relatively easy hitters park where Ethier plays in an impossible one.. not to mention ethier also plays at petco, at&t frequently

Skippy15
08-25-2012, 04:02 PM
This is completely ridiculous. You have one guy providing stats and one guy claiming that the others are better in his opinion lol.

Sorry dodger fans but it's been proven over and over the Cards line up is more productive.

More entertaining is your talking about how you have the best line up and they haven't played a game yet lol homerism at its finest

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 04:06 PM
Guys just so ya know this wasnt supposed to turn into a homer thread...
I just wanted your opinions
I aint being a homer when I think Dodgers have the best lineup
Victorino, Ellis, kemp, Gonzo, HanRam, Dre, Cruz, Ellis
Is that homerism that I think that is the best??? looks pretty good to me but i also can understand why yall think Cards lineup is the best just chill and let me know why,, no reason to yell at me

1903
08-25-2012, 04:09 PM
Guys just so ya know this wasnt supposed to turn into a homer thread...
I just wanted your opinions
I aint being a homer when I think Dodgers have the best lineup
Victorino, Ellis, kemp, Gonzo, HanRam, Dre, Cruz, Ellis
Is that homerism that I think that is the best??? looks pretty good to me but i also can understand why yall think Cards lineup is the best just chill and let me know why,, no reason to yell at me

You are just naming names without providing any proof that the Dodgers have the best lineup.

Jeter
Swisher
Cano
Teixera
A-Rod
Granderson
Ibanez
Martin
Ichiro

I can also name names.

RedeMptioN218
08-25-2012, 04:09 PM
I'd probably argue that the Yankees or Rangers still have the best lineup, but it's difficult to argue NL vs AL teams for best lineup because of the DH.

The Cardinals don't use a DH, but Berkman would probably be their guy if he was healthy. But NL team's don't sign a guy to DH for them.

Yes...this

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 04:10 PM
i just love the balance in the dodgers lineup..thats the main reason why I believe theyre the best

Victorino...Speed, contact(usually, so far not much), some pop, defense
Ellis..Contact, defense, occasional speed and pop
Kemp...5 tool Player
Gonzalez...5 tool player except speed
Ramirez...5 tool player if his heads right
Dre...defense, occasional power, great contact(against righties)
Ellis..Great eye, good defense...some power
Cruz/Gordon...Speed for gordon is insane...cruz has a little of everything

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 04:11 PM
beltan has 20 more AB's maybe not a lot but hey that could translate into 10 more hits 4 homers and 10 RBI's ... (due to Ethiers injury earlier)
Well if he did that in his extra 20 AB's than that would help him be a better hitter, would it not?



Beltran plays against average NL Central Pitching as where Ethier plys against dominate NL west pitching ex. I dont see Beltran having to face Cain, Bumgarnder, Vogelsong, Miley, etc... on a daily basis pretty much
There is a very very very very very very very very very minimal difference between the leagues the each are facing, and you have to remember the each team plays the other divisions and not just their division exclusively, so you are still facing everybody.

Wanna know who Ethier has faced the most this season?

Clayton Richard - 12 times
Edison Volquez - 12 times
Ryan Vogelsong - 9 times
Barry Zito - 9 times
J.A. Happ - 7 times
Juan Nicasio - 7 times
Alex White - 7 times

Who has Beltran faced the most?
Bud Norris - 9 times
Jeff Samardj - 9 times
Randy Wolf - 9 times
Mat Latos - 8 times
Clayton Kershaw - 7 times
Cliff Lee - 7 times
Ian Kennedy - 7 times


and the reason Beltrans power numbers are better is the fact he plays at a relatively easy hitters park where Ethier plays in an impossible one.. not to mention ethier also plays at petco, at&t frequently

Busch Stadium is the 19th easiest ballpark to hit home runs in. It is not a homer happy ball park, and he doesn't have just enough/lucky home runs this season.

Here is Beltran's home run log
http://hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2012_19&type=hitter

By moving to Dodgers stadium he would lose one home run (there is an overlay you can select if you would like) and that is a home run he hit in Wrigley, not Busch


Here is Ethier's home run log
http://hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2012_3814&type=hitter
put him in Busch Stadium and he loses three home runs



Any other myths/theories you want to throw my way?

Guppyfighter
08-25-2012, 04:11 PM
It is homerism to say the Dodgers have the better line up.

dodgers33089
08-25-2012, 04:12 PM
Just....stop :facepalm:

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 04:13 PM
You are just naming names without providing any proof that the Dodgers have the best lineup.

Jeter
Swisher
Cano
Teixera
A-Rod
Granderson
Ibanez
Martin
Ichiro

I can also name names.

i understand but most of your names are washed up or at least not what they once were
jeter over 35
A-rod clearly not what he once was
text not as productive as ever
Ichiro- 38
martin a shell of his former self
Ibanez is old too

Victorino-32
Ellis-35 but doesnt depend on athletic abilty to succeed
kemp-28
GOnzo-30
Hanny-27
Dre-30
Ellis-30
Cruz-28

all basically in the prime of their career

1903
08-25-2012, 04:14 PM
i just love the balance in the dodgers lineup..thats the main reason why I believe theyre the best

Victorino...Speed, contact(usually, so far not much), some pop, defense
Ellis..Contact, defense, occasional speed and pop
Kemp...5 tool Player
Gonzalez...5 tool player except speed
Ramirez...5 tool player if his heads right
Dre...defense, occasional power, great contact(against righties)
Ellis..Great eye, good defense...some power
Cruz/Gordon...Speed for gordon is insane...cruz has a little of everything

:laugh2:

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 04:19 PM
Guys just so ya know this wasnt supposed to turn into a homer thread...
I just wanted your opinions
I aint being a homer when I think Dodgers have the best lineup
Victorino, Ellis, kemp, Gonzo, HanRam, Dre, Cruz, Ellis
Is that homerism that I think that is the best??? looks pretty good to me but i also can understand why yall think Cards lineup is the best just chill and let me know why,, no reason to yell at me

I don't see any yelling (but it is the internet).

It's an honest discussion.


The best lineup is probably in the AL, Rangers and Yankees each have beastly lineups. But they also intentionally add a DH in the off-season so that should help them produce.

In the NL, the Cardinals have been running away as the best lineup. Nobody is really close to them. The Dodgers are piecing together a nice lineup, but they are repairing what was a very very very bad lineup that needed a lot of work. Kemp is probably the best player in the four lineups named, but his supporting cast isn't as strong as the names themselves sound. Allen Craig is quietly one of the best hitters in the game (numbers support this allegation), Molina is the second best hitting catcher in the game, Freese is a top 5 hitter for his position, Holliday is consistently under-rated and a safe bet for a top 15 player in the entire game, and Beltran is a good player and better than Ethier (at least for now, he is regressing). Then you throw in Jon Jay and Matt Carpenter and you have some really nice additional pieces that are well above average offensively.

The Cardinals team is just a really complete lineup. They don't have that star Pujols power in the middle of it, but their weaknesses start and in with the middle in field, and Schumaker is hitting great this year, and Furcal can be explosive. They have a really deep offensive bench. Many of the guys in the Cardinals lineup you haven't heard of (like Carpenter, Jay, Craig) are better than people realize, and other guys are just quietly great (Holliday, Molina) and people don't realize how good they are until they look up their numbers.

Rush
08-25-2012, 04:19 PM
oh come on dude....beltran>Ethier????
Molina>Ellis?????
Craig over Gonzalez???????????????????????

Plus Kemp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jay not just Kemp>Jay
Ramirez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Furcal not just ramirez>Furcal


U can have your opinions but those are not facts

:facepalm:

You have no idea what you're talking about, just stop.

Ethier is a glorified platoon player. He's terrible against lefties.
Molina is much better than Ellis.
Craig has hit very, very well and has done better than Gonzalez this year and last year.

I don't get how you can throw out stats but have no basis to back up your claim.

Are you like 15?

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 04:19 PM
Well if he did that in his extra 20 AB's than that would help him be a better hitter, would it not?



There is a very very very very very very very very very minimal difference between the leagues the each are facing, and you have to remember the each team plays the other divisions and not just their division exclusively, so you are still facing everybody.

Wanna know who Ethier has faced the most this season?

Clayton Richard - 12 times
Edison Volquez - 12 times
Ryan Vogelsong - 9 times
Barry Zito - 9 times
J.A. Happ - 7 times
Juan Nicasio - 7 times
Alex White - 7 times

Who has Beltran faced the most?
Bud Norris - 9 times
Jeff Samardj - 9 times
Randy Wolf - 9 times
Mat Latos - 8 times
Clayton Kershaw - 7 times
Cliff Lee - 7 times
Ian Kennedy - 7 times



Busch Stadium is the 19th easiest ballpark to hit home runs in. It is not a homer happy ball park, and he doesn't have just enough/lucky home runs this season.

Here is Beltran's home run log
http://hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2012_19&type=hitter

By moving to Dodgers stadium he would lose one home run (there is an overlay you can select if you would like) and that is a home run he hit in Wrigley, not Busch


Here is Ethier's home run log
http://hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2012_3814&type=hitter
put him in Busch Stadium and he loses three home runs



Any other myths/theories you want to throw my way?


you're good lol but still i think you base to much off advanced statistics...
hanley wasnt even putting any effort in Miami
Gonzalez probably wasnt in Boston either
Kemp is/was playing injured...same goes with several other dodger hitters

so their are factors you have to acknowledge when looking at these advanced statistics...

With that said Cards are the WS champions and do have by far the best ofensive as far as statistics are concerned but... I think this dodger team is better becuse they just have tons and tons of fire power.. their really isnt a break in the lineup...

I'll tell ya what...check what the dodgers do as far as putting up runs is concerned in the next week or 2 and then tell me this isnt the best offense in the MLB i would put money that they average around 6 runs or so and the Cards average around 4

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 04:20 PM
i understand but most of your names are washed up or at least not what they once were
jeter over 35
A-rod clearly not what he once was
text not as productive as ever
Ichiro- 38
martin a shell of his former self
Ibanez is old too

Victorino-32
Ellis-35 but doesnt depend on athletic abilty to succeed
kemp-28
GOnzo-30
Hanny-27
Dre-30
Ellis-30
Cruz-28

all basically in the prime of their career

So Ellis at 35 doesn't depend on athletic ability to succeed but Jeter is classified as over the hill even though he has been a top 50 hitter in baseball this year?

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 04:22 PM
:laugh2:

hmmm well he batted .340 last year
he's constantly hit over 30 home runs in his career
He is a gold glover and is a shoe in at this point
and tho arm strength is not a need at 1st base he has a pretty darn good one

so YES besides speed he is a 5 tool player...

what are you talking about... u are clueless... do u know anything about gonzo???ever seee him play before?

d79cheese
08-25-2012, 04:23 PM
Lol I'm on my phone so I'm not looking up all the numbers, but they may not even have the best offense in the nl west... D'backs when rolling are still the best in the west. Off the top of my head I'd take montero, goldschmidt, hill, Johnson, and kubel at their respective positions this season.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 04:23 PM
So Ellis at 35 doesn't depend on athletic ability to succeed but Jeter is classified as over the hill even though he has been a top 50 hitter in baseball this year?

well ok true but jeter is one if not thee most important hitter in your lineup...ellis isnt exactly a top gun in ours

1903
08-25-2012, 04:24 PM
hmmm well he batted .340 last year
he's constantly hit over 30 home runs in his career
He is a gold glover and is a shoe in at this point
and tho arm strength is not a need at 1st base he has a pretty darn good one

so YES besides speed he is a 5 tool player...

what are you talking about... u are clueless... do u know anything about gonzo???ever seee him play before?

You should really stop. You have already embarrassed yourself many times in this thread. You can't be missing one of the tools and still be a five tool player.

Panthers4life
08-25-2012, 04:24 PM
It has to be the dodgers now!!!!
Doesn't it?

Victorino
Ellis
Kemp
Gonzalez
Ramirez
Ethier
Cruz
Ellis

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

also forgot about dee gordon when he gets healthy

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 04:25 PM
Lol I'm on my phone so I'm not looking up all the numbers, but they may not even have the best offense in the nl west... D'backs when rolling are still the best in the west. Off the top of my head I'd take montero, goldschmidt, hill, Johnson, and kubel at their respective positions this season.

That was when dodgers lineup was
Gordon
Ellis
Ethier
Rivera
Loney
Ellis
Uribe
Hairston


big differnce now buddy

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 04:25 PM
you're good lol but still i think you base to much off advanced statistics...
hanley wasnt even putting any effort in Miami
Gonzalez probably wasnt in Boston either
Kemp is/was playing injured...same goes with several other dodger hitters

so their are factors you have to acknowledge when looking at these advanced statistics...

With that said Cards are the WS champions and do have by far the best ofensive as far as statistics are concerned but... I think this dodger team is better becuse they just have tons and tons of fire power.. their really isnt a break in the lineup...

I'll tell ya what...check what the dodgers do as far as putting up runs is concerned in the next week or 2 and then tell me this isnt the best offense in the MLB i would put money that they average around 6 runs or so and the Cards average around 4

And that's fine.

but to be fair, the Cards average about 5 (4.94 to be specific) runs a game, and have so far this season.

The problem with me accepting this challenge is that the Cardinals next two weeks are the toughest part of their schedule for the entire season. So it's hard for me to say they will be at 5 runs a game when they face the Nationals and Reds several times.

The last team to average 6 runs per game was the 07 Yankees (5.98). And I don't think this Dodgers team is anywhere close to them offensively. They had a .829 team OPS, which is insane.

Rush
08-25-2012, 04:25 PM
hmmm well he batted .340 last year
he's constantly hit over 30 home runs in his career
He is a gold glover and is a shoe in at this point
and tho arm strength is not a need at 1st base he has a pretty darn good one

so YES besides speed he is a 5 tool player...

what are you talking about... u are clueless... do u know anything about gonzo???ever seee him play before?

I wouldn't be throwing that out there if I were you.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 04:26 PM
You should really stop. You have already embarrassed yourself many times in this thread. You can't be missing one of the tools and still be a five tool player.

so that makes him a 4 tool player ;)

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 04:27 PM
And that's fine.

but to be fair, the Cards average about 5 (4.94 to be specific) runs a game, and have so far this season.

The problem with me accepting this challenge is that the Cardinals next two weeks are the toughest part of their schedule for the entire season. So it's hard for me to say they will be at 5 runs a game when they face the Nationals and Reds several times.

The last team to average 6 runs per game was the 07 Yankees (5.98). And I don't think this Dodgers team is anywhere close to them offensively. They had a .829 team OPS, which is insane.

ok I understand... Then how about u just tell me where u think the dodgers place ??

LakersA's49ers
08-25-2012, 04:29 PM
Oakland A's. No homer involved in that choice ;)

MetsFanatic19
08-25-2012, 04:29 PM
When Crawford is healthy, Ramirez is focused, and Gonzalez is on, I think I'd take the Dodgers. Where just going to have to wait and see who's offense finishes the year better, though.

Scully in 2012
08-25-2012, 04:30 PM
The only way to make this discussion fair is to separate the NL and AL.

The best in the AL:

Yankees and Rangers with the Tigers getting an honorable mention.

The best in the NL:

Cardinals and the Dodgers.

The Giants do NOT have a better lineup. As much as it pains me to compliment them, Their rotation is arguably the best in the NL. That is the teams strong point, not the lineup.

As for the comment about the D-Backs lineup...any team cant get "rolling" and win games. They are not the best, by far.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 04:32 PM
ok I understand... Then how about u just tell me where u think the dodgers place ??

probably second best in the NL, and if everyone performs to their peak ability, they could be better than the Cards.


I think the Reds, D'Backs, and Brewers could compete, but at this point the Dodgers are probably better on paper.

Scully in 2012
08-25-2012, 04:35 PM
That's like saying, "besides the rain, this is a perfect day for a picnic".

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

d79cheese
08-25-2012, 04:43 PM
That was when dodgers lineup was
Gordon
Ellis
Ethier
Rivera
Loney
Ellis
Uribe
Hairston


big differnce now buddy

lol thats what all Dodger fans said when they got Hanley and Victorino. In the month of August they are at .307 wOBA and a wRC+ of 92.

Black Betsy
08-25-2012, 04:47 PM
1.Rangers
2.Yankees
3.Dodgers
4.Cardinals
5.Angels
6.Tigers
7.Dbacks
8.Reds

These rankings are by scariest not numbers.

Rush
08-25-2012, 04:51 PM
Fun FACTS:

1. The only teams with a worse wOBA than the almighty Dodgers are: Astros, Cubs, Mariners

2. The only teams with a worse wRC+ than the almighty Dodgers are: Marlins, Astros, Mariners, and Cubs

3. Not a single team in MLB has a lower ISO than the almighty Dodgers

4. Josh Beckett ****ing sucks

That's cool man, but facts aren't everything. Look at these names: Adrian Gonzalez, Hanley Ramirez, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, how is anyone better than them? There is no one!

moshy2
08-25-2012, 05:26 PM
That's cool man, but facts aren't everything. Look at these names: Adrian Gonzalez, Hanley Ramirez, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, how is anyone better than them? There is no one!

Those aren't even facts.

Facts= What Mr. LA thinks of the Dodgers lineup

Opinion= What statistical evidence proves of the Dodgers lineup.

Black Betsy
08-25-2012, 05:30 PM
Beltre,Hamiltion,Andrus,Kinsler,Cruz
To me are way better but yes I do like Adrain in that lineup.

1903
08-25-2012, 05:32 PM
Beltre,Hamiltion,Andrus,Kinsler,Cruz
To me are way better but yes I do like Adrain in that lineup.

Those names look scary. I bet they're good.

VRP723
08-25-2012, 05:37 PM
We don't compare to the top AL teams, but I'd say we have the best lineup in the NL going forwards. If you'd seriously take Craig over Adrian Gonzalez, regardless of what Craig's done in a 400 PA sample size, you're smoking crack.

VRP723
08-25-2012, 05:39 PM
Fun FACTS:

1. The only teams with a worse wOBA than the almighty Dodgers are: Astros, Cubs, Mariners

2. The only teams with a worse wRC+ than the almighty Dodgers are: Marlins, Astros, Mariners, and Cubs

3. Not a single team in MLB has a lower ISO than the almighty Dodgers

4. Josh Beckett ****ing sucks

What does our season ISO matter when Kemp didn't play for half of it, Hanley's only played for us for a month, and we just replaced .600 OPS James Loney with Adrian Gonzalez?

Also bringing up Beckett in a thread about offense, jeez, you won your ring no need to get bitter.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 05:40 PM
We don't compare to the top AL teams, but I'd say we have the best lineup in the NL going forwards. If you'd seriously take Craig over Adrian Gonzalez, regardless of what Craig's done in a 400 PA sample size, you're smoking crack.

Try over 600 PA, and in those 600 PA he has been significantly better than A-Gone in his last 600 PA.


What makes the Dodgers lineup better than the Cards?

Kemp and Hanley are the only two position players that are obviously better than the Cards players at those positions.

Cards have the upper-hand at catcher, third base, right field, left field

VRP723
08-25-2012, 05:44 PM
I don't care enough to make this into an argument. We'll let the next few seasons do the talking.

Not calling out Jeffy, he's more of a logic guy, but man, I have to come to grips with the irrational hatred that comes with being the Yankees of the West. You guys come strong.

1903
08-25-2012, 05:45 PM
I don't care enough to make this into an argument. We'll let the next few seasons do the talking.

Not calling out Jeffy, he's more of a logic guy, but man, I have to come to grips with the irrational hatred that comes with being the Yankees of the West. You guys come strong.

I prefer if you called yourself the Mets of the west.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 05:46 PM
Adrian Gonzalez had a career year last year, did he not? His best of his career

Well it was also Craig's first full season

Craig has been a better hitter than A-Gone the last two seasons, it's not hard to share the information

Craig - .317/.373/.571 - .403 wOBA, 159 wRC+
Adrian - .321/.382/.513 - .380 wOBA, 136 wRC+


And don't like Craig vs Adrian because of PA? Then let's give those remaining PA to Berkman who comes back Tuesday

.297/.409/.536 - .397 wOBA, 156 wRC+


I guess I like crack :shrug:

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 05:47 PM
Lineup tonight guys:

Victorino
Ellis
Kemp
Gonzalez
Ramirez
Ethier
Cruz
Ellis
Kershaw

WOW

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 05:48 PM
I don't care enough to make this into an argument. We'll let the next few seasons do the talking.

Not calling out Jeffy, he's more of a logic guy, but man, I have to come to grips with the irrational hatred that comes with being the Yankees of the West. You guys come strong.
I'm very comfortable with that.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 05:49 PM
Adrian Gonzalez had a career year last year, did he not? His best of his career

Well it was also Craig's first full season

Craig has been a better hitter than A-Gone the last two seasons, it's not hard to share the information

Craig - .317/.373/.571 - .403 wOBA, 159 wRC+
Adrian - .321/.382/.513 - .380 wOBA, 136 wRC+


And don't like Craig vs Adrian because of PA? Then let's give those remaining PA to Berkman who comes back Tuesday

.297/.409/.536 - .397 wOBA, 156 wRC+


I guess I like crack :shrug:

quit it dude...Craig doesnt even compare to Gonzalez at all... cmon be true to yourself, it doesnt even sound right idc about woba or wrc

VRP723
08-25-2012, 05:49 PM
The biggest argument for the Dodgers offense is that the majority of our core is in their prime and will be for the next few seasons. The Cardinals have a handful of guys having career seasons that can't be matched (Yadi) and are on the wrong side of their careers (Beltran).

Oscar Taveras can probably fix that though lol

xxplayerxx23
08-25-2012, 05:50 PM
MR La has met the MLB forum to :pity: Ill go Rangers,Yankees,Cards all ahead of the dodgers. (In No order) and Angels are up there too.

VRP723
08-25-2012, 05:50 PM
I prefer if you called yourself the Mets of the west.

Or you guys can be the Dodgers of the east, we have more money than you anyway. Hehe.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 05:51 PM
The biggest argument for the Dodgers offense is that the majority of our core is in their prime and will be for the next few seasons. The Cardinals have a handful of guys having career seasons that can't be matched (Yadi) and are on the wrong side of their careers (Beltran).

Oscar Taveras can probably fix that though lol

I sure hope so, he will hopefully replace Beltran for the 2014 season as our right fielder.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 05:51 PM
quit it dude...Craig doesnt even compare to Gonzalez at all... cmon be true to yourself, it doesnt even sound right idc about woba or wrc

then how is Adrian better than Craig?

You keep saying it, but what is the argument? How is Craig not better?

VRP723
08-25-2012, 05:52 PM
I would think he'd play in the bigs next year, if he's as good as it seems I'm sure they could make something work.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 05:53 PM
then how is Adrian better than Craig?

You keep saying it, but what is the argument? How is Craig not better?

How? because Gonzo is one of the best players in the entire MLB
most never heard of Craig... and if I was a royal fan just say...i would rather face Craig far more then Gonzo

1903
08-25-2012, 05:53 PM
Todd Frazier had been better than Adrian Gonzalez this season (part time 1B).

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 05:55 PM
I would think he'd play in the bigs next year, if he's as good as it seems I'm sure they could make something work.

I just don't know where he would play, and you wouldn't call him up unless he could start.

Unless you trade someone away, our outfield is already maxed out of room. Craig is really an right or left fielder, but he moves to first because of room.

Jay is the weakest outfielder, and Taveras they say can play center, but I don't think he will stay there long term, and I wouldn't trade Jay and his .361 wOBA, 130 wRC+ out of positive defensive centerfielder to make room for a prospect that can't stay at the position long term.

I just don't know where the room is until Beltran is gone or injured, and even then, I would put Craig in right and put another good bat in at first (like Carpenter or Adams).

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 05:56 PM
How? because Gonzo is one of the best players in the entire MLB
most never heard of Craig... and if I was a royal fan just say...i would rather face Craig far more then Gonzo

so because 'people' haven't heard of him, he can't be good?

And because A-Gone has this reputation as a top hitter, he must be better?

xxplayerxx23
08-25-2012, 05:56 PM
How? because Gonzo is one of the best players in the entire MLB
most never heard of Craig... and if I was a royal fan just say...i would rather face Craig far more then Gonzo

:facepalm: Gonzo one of the best players in baseball? No. Craig has been on a tear. Craig is the better player right now.

thekmp211
08-25-2012, 05:58 PM
probably the astros

VRP723
08-25-2012, 06:02 PM
I'd LOVE to see a thread in the comparisons forum, asking money aside, who would you rather have as a player going forwards Allen Craig or Adrian Gonzalez.

If you say Craig you're either too reliant on numbers (Jeffy) or letting dislike for the player/team cloud your judgement (most of the Giants fans here)

StriveGreatness
08-25-2012, 06:04 PM
Jeffy, you are the god of the MLB forum...great post :)

:facepalm:

ruckus16969
08-25-2012, 06:05 PM
The Dodgers lineup is the most balanced lineup in the league. plenty of power plenty of speed plenty of OPB great ADV.

They got 4+ guys that will hit over 20 HR's 3 of them will hit 25 or 30 +
They have 3 guys that will steal 20 + bases
Everyone hits for decent or above adv.

This team is going to score plenty of runs. It's going to be insane

1903
08-25-2012, 06:05 PM
I'd LOVE to see a thread in the comparisons forum, asking money aside, who would you rather have as a player going forwards Allen Craig or Adrian Gonzalez.

If you say Craig you're either too reliant on numbers (Jeffy) or letting dislike for the player/team cloud your judgement (most of the Giants fans here)

Done.

xxplayerxx23
08-25-2012, 06:06 PM
I'd LOVE to see a thread in the comparisons forum, asking money aside, who would you rather have as a player going forwards Allen Craig or Adrian Gonzalez.

If you say Craig you're either too reliant on numbers (Jeffy) or letting dislike for the player/team cloud your judgement (most of the Giants fans here)

Gonzo is scaring some people. Freindly ball park and yet he only has 15 Hrs? And his average is way down. Its a little scary, and look at what Craig has done and Craig just turned 28 while Agon is now 30.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 06:08 PM
I'd LOVE to see a thread in the comparisons forum, asking money aside, who would you rather have as a player going forwards Allen Craig or Adrian Gonzalez.

If you say Craig you're either too reliant on numbers (Jeffy) or letting dislike for the player/team cloud your judgement (most of the Giants fans here)

That isn't what is being asked, but Craig is also 2 years younger (and likely two more years of prime ahead of him).

Craig has really done a fantastic job, and I don't see how the numbers shouldn't be used.

Craig was a polished hitter in the minor leagues, and has been great (actually a little better than in the minors) since getting called up.

Just as a comparison

Career slash lines

AC - .304/.360/.543 - .386 wOBA, 146 wRC+
AG - .294/.372/.509 - .372 wOBA, 133 wRC+


Adrian clearly has had a lot longer career 7 times the PA in the big leagues, but moving forward? It's hard to not like what Allen Craig has done and what he is likely to keep doing moving forward. Adrian has a little better discipline, and Craig appears to have a little better power (but Adrian did hit in Petco).

It's not the worst comparison if you were to ask who would you rather have just as a player for 2013.

VRP723
08-25-2012, 06:09 PM
What does it matter? It shows the Dodgers need to make a massive jump from what they where doing to be considered the best offense in the league. Injuries affect every team and only time will tell if the jump in offense will come anywhere near matching the jump in payroll.

The Beckett comment was meant for a laugh. I'm not bitter in the least. These moves will only make the Dodgers (potentially) missing the playoffs that much more satisfying. I can just hope that Gonzalez' performance this season is a sign of things to come and not just a hiccup; he's really the only acquisition you guys made that kinda scares me.

Here's to continued "success" for the West Coast Mets!! Congrats, guys. You did it.

Yup. I don't think anyone sensed bitterness in that post. :laugh2:

VRP723
08-25-2012, 06:10 PM
Craig is also a late blooming prospect who's had 600 PA's. Adrian Gonzalez was the 1st overall pick and has 8 years of elite performance behind him. Like I said, we'll see. But I'd be willing to bet a good amount of money on Gonzalez being the better player going forwards.

Rush
08-25-2012, 06:10 PM
quit it dude...Craig doesnt even compare to Gonzalez at all... cmon be true to yourself, it doesnt even sound right idc about woba or wrc

:facepalm:

You quit it. Open your eyes and stop being such a huge homer. You have no argument besides saying Gonzalez is better because he's a bigger name.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 06:14 PM
lol lets stop with Craig vs Gonzalez and instead compare gonzalez to the games best players like he should be

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 06:15 PM
Craig is also a late blooming prospect who's had 600 PA's. Adrian Gonzalez was the 1st overall pick and has 8 years of elite performance behind him. Like I said, we'll see. But I'd be willing to bet a good amount of money on Gonzalez being the better player going forwards.

Adrian is a rather interesting case too.

He was a first overall pick, but took awhile in the minors to get going, and it seemed like the Marlins and Rangers both were starting to give up on him when they traded him. And then he got it going in San Diego.

I still see him as a legit top hitter, a real .390 wOBA hitter, 5-6 win first basemen.

I just think people pass on Allen Craig a little too easily. His numbers are legit, he has really hard bat contact (helps explain his high babip, much like A-Gone) and as someone who does watch all our games, he is a really polished hitter.


It isn't so much that Craig was a late-bloomer, he came out of college, and did well in the minors, but he battled injuries (mainly knee). He has to be healthy obviously, but if he can remain healthy, I think he too is a .380-400 wOBA hitter. One could say he has been the most valuable hero to the Cards the last two seasons with their runs.

1903
08-25-2012, 06:15 PM
lol lets stop with Craig vs Gonzalez and instead compare gonzalez to the games best players like he should be

Todd Frazier vs. A-Gon?

Rush
08-25-2012, 06:17 PM
lol lets stop with Craig vs Gonzalez and instead compare gonzalez to the games best players like he should be

:facepalm:

Get a clue.

Derek Brink
08-25-2012, 06:17 PM
Here's to continued "success" for the West Coast Mets!! Congrats, guys. You did it.

yeah the Mets and Dodgers are so comparable.

The Mets, unless they go on a run, will finish under 500 for the fourth time in 5 years. The Dodgers will finish over 500 for the fourth time in 5 years.

The Mets have missed the playoffs all five years. The Dodgers could make the playoffs for the third time.

Jeffy25
08-25-2012, 06:20 PM
Todd Frazier vs. A-Gon?

:laugh2:

I literally chuckled out loud.

Frazier was the perfect comment.

AsfanSince99
08-25-2012, 06:21 PM
I like the moves, but still don't think they can beat the Giants' pitching.

xxplayerxx23
08-25-2012, 06:21 PM
Does LA make the playoffs is the better question :)

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 07:04 PM
yankee fan... Gonzalez > Texteira any day of the week and twice on sunday and its not even close

Rush
08-25-2012, 07:09 PM
Well Teixeira is having a better year than Gonzalez. :)

This is a legit question, how do you judge a players skill? What do you look and then come to a conclusion in your head saying, "Wow. This guy is really good", or, "This guy isn't good"? Serious question.

sf-fanatic
08-25-2012, 07:12 PM
Well Teixeira is having a better year than Gonzalez. :)

This is a legit question, how do you judge a players skill? What do you look and then come to a conclusion in your head saying, "Wow. This guy is really good", or, "This guy isn't good"? Serious question.

Jersey sales.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 07:15 PM
Texteira isnt having a better year then gonzo lolololol he has a little more power cuz he plays at the launching pad hehe gonzo dwarfs him

Derek Brink
08-25-2012, 07:16 PM
I'm referring to crippling the future of a franchise by spending money recklessly (not what either franchise has done in the last half decade).

then you are completely wrong because committing 42 million a year to AGon and Crawford isn't going to cripple a team who is going to have a 200 million dollar a year payroll.

Is this really coming from a Giants fan whose team won a series while 1/4 of it's payroll was spent on Rowand and Zito.

Dodgers have tons of money. Having a bad deal or two isn't going to kill them.

Of course if you listen to all the naysayers you'd think Gonzalez, Kemp, Ethier, Ramirez, Billingsley, Kershaw, Jansen, AJ Ellis and Crawford were all 34 not in the prime of their careers.

Rush
08-25-2012, 07:17 PM
Since you don't like wOBA or wRC, he's got a better OPS than Gonzalez. And at least spell his name right. It's Teixeira, not Texteira.

Seriously though, this is a serious question, how do you judge a player? What causes you to say, "he's good" and "he's not good"?

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 07:19 PM
Since you don't like wOBA or wRC, he's got a better OPS than Gonzalez. And at least spell his name right. It's Teixeira, not Texteira.

Seriously though, this is a serious question, how do you judge a player? What causes you to say, "he's good" and "he's not good"?

who cares what the .260 hitters name is...
and it is quite obvious who's good and who's not...

Rush
08-25-2012, 07:21 PM
who cares what the .260 hitters name is...
and it is quite obvious who's good and who's not...

So it's just your opinion you base how good a player is and you totally ignore statistics? That's the way it looks. I don't know. I'm just trying to have a discussion because I'm curious.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 07:28 PM
So it's just your opinion you base how good a player is and you totally ignore statistics? That's the way it looks. I don't know. I'm just trying to have a discussion because I'm curious.

Why is a giants fan on this thread anyways... u surely are not in the conversation for best offense go worry about Belt

Greedy22
08-25-2012, 07:59 PM
I see he's still going after being shutdown by everyone so far :laugh2:

Captain Moroni
08-25-2012, 08:30 PM
I'm a diehard mets fan and Yankee hater, but the yanks lineup is better. Probably followed by Texas then the dodgers.
All three could put up some runs in the playoffs.

otatop
08-25-2012, 09:40 PM
Why is a giants fan on this thread anyways...
Why can't Giants fans be in a thread in the MLB forum asking which team has the best lineup?

Just because you want it to be a Dodgers circlejerk doesn't mean it's in the Dodgers forum, you goof.

Rageaholic
08-25-2012, 10:06 PM
Hey, don't be bashing my Giants, lol. We're still in first, for now.

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 10:06 PM
haha still have something to see haters????? GONZO!!!!!!!!!!!!

dodgers33089
08-25-2012, 10:10 PM
Dude, stop trolling. Ugh

Mr. LA
08-25-2012, 10:12 PM
how

VRP723
08-25-2012, 10:12 PM
Haha, this **** is gonna be wild!!

NYSpirit1
08-25-2012, 10:13 PM
uhhh no.


Cardinals are still better

wOBA

1. Jay - .341
2. Beltran - .366
3. Holliday - .382
4. Craig - .406
5. Freese - .365
6. Molina - 387
7. Furcal - .305
8. Carpenter/Schumaker - .366/.341

Compared to the Dodgers lineup

1. Victorino - .317 (.281 w Dodgers)
2. Ellis - .321
3. Kemp - .411
4. Gonzalez - .346
5. Ramirez - .341 (.384 w Dodgers)
6. Ethier - .346
7. Cruz - .347
8. Ellis - .351

Not hard to top it

Kemp is better than Jay, and Hanley is better than Furcal. The rest of the Dodgers lineup is inferior to the Cardinals

Will you stop with the advanced stats? You use them in every thread, 90% of this forum doesn't care about advanced stats. Use normal stats.

Guppyfighter
08-25-2012, 10:16 PM
I care about advanced stats.

agureghian
08-25-2012, 10:16 PM
Thread is full of homers esp jeffy

Rush
08-25-2012, 10:46 PM
Will you stop with the advanced stats? You use them in every thread, 90% of this forum doesn't care about advanced stats. Use normal stats.

So let's just rank players solely off BA, HR, RBI and not evolve into better stats?


Thread is full of homers esp jeffy

Ya no. Jeffy's right. Mr. LA is the homer here.

Puck017
08-25-2012, 11:02 PM
I've seen a lot of things on paper that haven't seemed to work out so well this year in the majors so until the Dodger show me something I'm going with the Cardinals. I got the Rangers neck and neck with them, but my gut told me to go with the Cards.

Greedy22
08-26-2012, 01:11 AM
Thread is full of homers esp jeffy Jeffy has brought nothing, but facts to this thread. He's actually right, Mr. LA is just going off the names and his blind homerism in here.

showtym24
08-26-2012, 01:13 AM
How about letting the dodgers lineup settle in and play together for at least a half a season?

"Ace"ves
08-26-2012, 01:29 AM
What on earth are you basing this on? Their names being house-hold names?

Holliday and Beltran have created a combined 168 runs thus far this season
Kemp and Gonzalez have created a combined 134 runs thus far this season

Not to mention Allen Craig has out-hit Adrian the last two years as well, and isn't far behind Kemp

2011-2012
Kemp - .416 wOBA, 169 wRC+
Adrian - .380 wOBA, 136 wRC+
Craig - .403 wOBA, 159 wRC+
Beltran - .379 wOBA, 143 wRC+
Holliday - .388 wOBA, 149 wRC+


Not to mention Berkman, who will be back on Tuesday
Berkman - .397 wOBA, 156 wRC+


And then you add in that Freese, Jay, and Molina have each out hit Hanley

Hanley - .331 wOBA, 106 wRC+

I can't see what you are gunning for here.


You say we need to throw the statistics out,then what the heck is your basis for saying the Dodgers lineup is better? Their names? The Dodgers are going to actually have to catch the Cardinals first before you can claim them as the better lineup.

At this point, Berkman's value is unknown. We don't even know if he is durable enough to play on a consistent basis/at this level.

But I agree overall with the Cardinals having the best lineup (assuming we are talking about scoring runs). I cannot say the Yankees because I feel that they are an all or nothing team and if the pitcher doesn't make mistakes, they'll have a very long night.

xxplayerxx23
08-26-2012, 01:31 AM
LAD will be nowhere near the WS good day :D

Rush
08-26-2012, 01:46 AM
LAD will be nowhere near the WS good day :D

Oh no you dih-int!

Young2Kinsler
08-26-2012, 01:50 AM
Gotta love new PSD bandwagoners. People flock to LA when they get Dwight, or make this trade. Nut huggers came out of the woodworks for LeBron in Miami. It's a pathetic life these people live

Young2Kinsler
08-26-2012, 01:52 AM
Will you stop with the advanced stats? You use them in every thread, 90% of this forum doesn't care about advanced stats. Use normal stats.

Yeah! Get out of here with those stats that tell a more true story! We don't need none that ****...I just know MOARZZZZ RBIs is BETTERER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Puck017
08-26-2012, 01:52 AM
At this point, Berkman's value is unknown. We don't even know if he is durable enough to play on a consistent basis/at this level.

But I agree overall with the Cardinals having the best lineup (assuming we are talking about scoring runs). I cannot say the Yankees because I feel that they are an all or nothing team and if the pitcher doesn't make mistakes, they'll have a very long night.

Yep. The Cardinals are very good at making productive outs while the Yankees are one of the worst teams in that department.

sexicano31
08-26-2012, 01:57 AM
Jesus christ OP, get your **** together

yaswaggin
08-26-2012, 10:17 AM
Dodgers have the best lineup, I have nightmares watching them bat.

Couldn't sleep all night after that A-Gon homerun, his face haunted me all night.

Plus they have Hanley, ethier, kemp, victorino. Victorino should hit .350 rest of season, kemp should hit 40 home runs in September, and Hanley should have 90 stolen bases by seasons end

Not to mention there pitching, Beckett should throw 5 no hitters in a row

ShinobiNYC
08-26-2012, 10:34 AM
With Gardner and A-Rod 100% it's the Yankees. Right now(both out) it's the Rangers followed closely by the Cards.

NYSpirit1
08-26-2012, 11:38 AM
So let's just rank players solely off BA, HR, RBI and not evolve into better stats?


BA, HR and RBI are historical statistics that have been used for 125 years. Advanced metrics are created by one brain or two, meant to really micromanage baseball.

It's irrelevant in the public eye.

Guppyfighter
08-26-2012, 11:40 AM
BA, HR and RBI are historical statistics that have been used for 125 years. Advanced metrics are created by one brain or two, meant to really micromanage baseball.

It's irrelevant in the public eye.

Who cares if the general public doesn't understand them?

Young2Kinsler
08-26-2012, 11:53 AM
BA, HR and RBI are historical statistics that have been used for 125 years. Advanced metrics are created by one brain or two, meant to really micromanage baseball.

It's irrelevant in the public eye.

Just like most people don't understand brain surgery? So let's throw that out the window...no one needs **** they don't understand!!!

Jeffy25
08-26-2012, 12:48 PM
Why is a giants fan on this thread anyways... u surely are not in the conversation for best offense go worry about Belt

Because that's a productive response to a reasonable question

Jeffy25
08-26-2012, 12:50 PM
Will you stop with the advanced stats? You use them in every thread, 90% of this forum doesn't care about advanced stats. Use normal stats.

Cute.

Anyone that takes any amount of energy to learn what each statistic calculates quickly agrees with them being used over HR/RBI/AVG. It isn't difficult to learn them, and it isn't difficult to understand why they are better to use.

BTW, these are 'normal' stats

Rush
08-26-2012, 01:31 PM
BA, HR and RBI are historical statistics that have been used for 125 years. Advanced metrics are created by one brain or two, meant to really micromanage baseball.

It's irrelevant in the public eye.

Who cares what other casual fans think? They only pay attention when it's the playoffs. Why not evolve and come up with better ways to judge a player?

WadeKobe
08-26-2012, 01:33 PM
BA, HR and RBI are historical statistics that have been used for 125 years.

Advanced Metrics have been true for 125 years also. They just weren't discovered yet. That is, they are accurate representatives of what BA, HR, and RBI really mean and how they translate into production (runs/wins) on the field. Their accuracy has been proven by being applied over 125 years now.



Advanced metrics are created by one brain or two, meant to really micromanage baseball.

Lol. 1 or 2 minds?

Bill James
Keith Woolner
Tom Tango

I just gave you 3.

It also isn't meant to micromanage baseball. It is meant to describe baseball.



It's irrelevant in the public eye.

What is relevant to the public eye is what is irrelevant. lol. What the public knows, understands, or thinks is relevant has no effect on what is accurate, true, or useful information.

45% of America still believes evolution is false and that the earth is only 10,000 years old. Does that mean evolutionary biology should be chucked? I mean, after all, it has only been around 200 years.

Puck017
08-26-2012, 02:27 PM
While I believe wOBA is one of the best if not the best single stat to describe the offensive ability of a player, the WAR stat is a very misused and misleading. How is it misleading and misused. People will say player A is better than player b while player A's WAR is only higher, because that player played more games. WAR is a stat that show a players contribution over the entirety of the to his team and shouldn't be used to compare the skill level of players unless they played approximately the same number of games.

WadeKobe
08-26-2012, 03:00 PM
While I believe wOBA is one of the best if not the best single stat to describe the offensive ability of a player, the WAR stat is a very misused and misleading. How is it misleading and misused. People will say player A is better than player b while player A's WAR is only higher, because that player played more games. WAR is a stat that show a players contribution over the entirety of the to his team and shouldn't be used to compare the skill level of players unless they played approximately the same number of games.

Skill is meaningless unless it translates to production. A player on the field produces more than a player off the field. I don't care how skilled you are if you are on my DL for 50 games.

Mr Haha
08-26-2012, 03:22 PM
Skill is meaningless unless it translates to production. A player on the field produces more than a player off the field. I don't care how skilled you are if you are on my DL for 50 games.

How does WAR take into account potential? How does it help predict how long a club should wait on a particular young skilled player to develop?

This is why advanced metrics are awful at predictions, while wonderful tools for evaluating the past, however near.

WadeKobe
08-26-2012, 03:26 PM
How does WAR take into account potential? How does it help predict how long a club should wait on a particular young skilled player to develop?

This is why advanced metrics are awful at predictions, while wonderful tools for evaluating the past, however near.

I never suggested anything other than this.

ATL#22
08-26-2012, 03:27 PM
Yay for Dodger fans

Puck017
08-26-2012, 03:43 PM
Skill is meaningless unless it translates to production. A player on the field produces more than a player off the field. I don't care how skilled you are if you are on my DL for 50 games.

I guess I wasn't clear with my point. In a thread discussing which lineup is better it is a misuse of these cumulative stats to compare the lineups when there are players that have missed significant time. Averaged not cumulative metrics should be used in this type of a comparison.

fulltiltdodger
08-26-2012, 03:45 PM
It has to be the dodgers now!!!!
Doesn't it?

Victorino
Ellis
Kemp
Gonzalez
Ramirez
Ethier
Cruz
Ellis

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

hmmmm..I think we would have a better argument next year when Crawford is healthy, as for this year, it would be hard for us to say we even have the best lineup in the national league let alone all of majors

1. crawford
2. ellis
3. kemp
4. gonzalez
5. ramirez
6. ethier
7. ellis
8. gordon
9. pitcher

crawford and gordon would be legit guys who can steal 40+ bases. Kemp and ramirez have the capability of both stealing 25+ bases themselves. Kemp, Gonzalez, Ramirez can all bat 300+, 30 hr+, 100 RBI+, as for ethier a little less homeruns about 20.

Its hard to predict what their numbers will be in 2013.

As for 2012 I think we have a legit chance of winning the division and making a run in the playoffs

WadeKobe
08-26-2012, 03:53 PM
I guess I wasn't clear with my point. In a thread discussing which lineup is better it is a misuse of these cumulative stats to compare the lineups when there are players that have missed significant time. Averaged not cumulative metrics should be used in this type of a comparison.

wOBA and wRC+ as well as OPS+ seem to be the ones in play... so I don't see your point.

CHRISDODGERS
08-26-2012, 04:05 PM
re-reading this thread. I'm sorry for Mr. LA and others. truly am :(

Puck017
08-26-2012, 04:29 PM
p

Mr. LA
08-26-2012, 04:54 PM
re-reading this thread. I'm sorry for Mr. LA and others. truly am :(

what is that supposed to mean??

Jeffy25
08-26-2012, 04:55 PM
How does WAR take into account potential? How does it help predict how long a club should wait on a particular young skilled player to develop?

This is why advanced metrics are awful at predictions, while wonderful tools for evaluating the past, however near.

It isn't, and doesn't attempt to be a predictive statistic. Anyone using it to predict future performance is gravely misusing it.

giantspwn
08-26-2012, 04:57 PM
OMG Hurray for LA!

It's annoying reading this OP's posts. One moment he's declaring LA unbeatable, then the Giants sweep them and he's nowhere to be found. Then a big trade goes down and LA wins a couple games and he's back trolling.

dodgers33089
08-26-2012, 04:58 PM
what is that supposed to mean??

Guess :facepalm:

giantspwn
08-26-2012, 04:59 PM
I'd say LA has the best lineup moving forward. Btw

Fly
08-26-2012, 05:14 PM
Wow, reading through this thread made my head hurt. These trolls... :pity:

Mr. LA
08-26-2012, 05:14 PM
HAHA a fan cant show excitement???
Don't hate guys... I speak for all dodger fans when I say we suffered so bad with McCourt and we took a bunch of **** from other fanbases. A LOT of ****
Now we have Kastens and company and were back!!! And I'm not going to lie I'm freaking stoked!!!!! Our lineup is stacked and I dont care if I'm hated after the abuse me and the Dodger fanbase took with the stupid bankrupt t-shirts and **** Well now I'm excited to speak my mind.... WE HAVE THE BEST LINEUP IN BASEBALL YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! now who's poor guys?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

MintBerryCrunch
08-26-2012, 05:23 PM
hmmmm..I think we would have a better argument next year when Crawford is healthy, as for this year, it would be hard for us to say we even have the best lineup in the national league let alone all of majors

1. crawford
2. ellis
3. kemp
4. gonzalez
5. ramirez
6. ethier
7. ellis
8. gordon
9. pitcher

crawford and gordon would be legit guys who can steal 40+ bases. Kemp and ramirez have the capability of both stealing 25+ bases themselves. Kemp, Gonzalez, Ramirez can all bat 300+, 30 hr+, 100 RBI+, as for ethier a little less homeruns about 20.

Its hard to predict what their numbers will be in 2013.

As for 2012 I think we have a legit chance of winning the division and making a run in the playoffs

Kemp could be a 40+ steal player as well.

giantspwn
08-26-2012, 05:30 PM
HAHA a fan cant show excitement???
Don't hate guys... I speak for all dodger fans when I say we suffered so bad with McCourt and we took a bunch of **** from other fanbases. A LOT of ****
Now we have Kastens and company and were back!!! And I'm not going to lie I'm freaking stoked!!!!! Our lineup is stacked and I dont care if I'm hated after the abuse me and the Dodger fanbase took with the stupid bankrupt t-shirts and **** Well now I'm excited to speak my mind.... WE HAVE THE BEST LINEUP IN BASEBALL YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! now who's poor guys?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:yawn:

Guppyfighter
08-26-2012, 05:52 PM
You shouldn't call these people trolls. It's too good of an excuse to be stupid.

CHRISDODGERS
08-26-2012, 05:57 PM
p

I agree

stlcardsfan
08-26-2012, 07:48 PM
I love how a Dodgers fan made this thread after the Gonzo trade.

abe_froman
08-26-2012, 07:49 PM
its great the dodgers upgraded their lineup and the fanbase is excited and all...but think you're getting abit to excited.its still got to be the yankees(its funny that they're not talked about much as they usually the most hyped)

Jeffy25
08-26-2012, 08:10 PM
Advanced Metrics have been true for 125 years also. They just weren't discovered yet. That is, they are accurate representatives of what BA, HR, and RBI really mean and how they translate into production (runs/wins) on the field. Their accuracy has been proven by being applied over 125 years now.



Lol. 1 or 2 minds?

Bill James
Keith Woolner
Tom Tango

I just gave you 3.

It also isn't meant to micromanage baseball. It is meant to describe baseball.



What is relevant to the public eye is what is irrelevant. lol. What the public knows, understands, or thinks is relevant has no effect on what is accurate, true, or useful information.

45% of America still believes evolution is false and that the earth is only 10,000 years old. Does that mean evolutionary biology should be chucked? I mean, after all, it has only been around 200 years.

What's funny is that the Cardinals also destroy the Dodgers in traditional stats, so I don't even know what the argument is. It's basically saying that he doesn't like the presentation of the argument, even though it's right.

Rush
08-26-2012, 09:22 PM
What's funny is that the Cardinals also destroy the Dodgers in traditional stats, so I don't even know what the argument is. It's basically saying that he doesn't like the presentation of the argument, even though it's right.

You're wrong Jeffy, just because I say so.

Norieaga
08-27-2012, 12:17 AM
Probably the Dodgers.

Kemp
Gonzalez
Ramirez
Ethier

Totally deadly. As a BoSox fan I'm sad.

1903
08-27-2012, 12:22 AM
HAHA a fan cant show excitement???
Don't hate guys... I speak for all dodger fans when I say we suffered so bad with McCourt and we took a bunch of **** from other fanbases. A LOT of ****
Now we have Kastens and company and were back!!! And I'm not going to lie I'm freaking stoked!!!!! Our lineup is stacked and I dont care if I'm hated after the abuse me and the Dodger fanbase took with the stupid bankrupt t-shirts and **** Well now I'm excited to speak my mind.... WE HAVE THE BEST LINEUP IN BASEBALL YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! now who's poor guys?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Are u serious?!?!?!?!?! Yankees have the best ****in lineup in all of baseball!!! Bro the YANKS whooped the Dodgers *** so many times that they ****ing ran out of NYC and hid on the west cOast!!!! We got all the championships son and you better recoknize the king when u see it. Yankees fans know whats up and as a Yankees fan i no what is goinz on all the time. 27 championships home boy and u know u wan some of that!!!!1 we got jeter and arod in this lineup allong with tiexexie who hita lots of homerruns!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! You got ****ing nothing on the yanks boy!!!! take you wannabe yankees team out west and shove it!!!!

Rush
08-27-2012, 12:28 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Are u serious?!?!?!?!?! Yankees have the best ****in lineup in all of baseball!!! Bro the YANKS whooped the Dodgers *** so many times that they ****ing ran out of NYC and hid on the west cOast!!!! We got all the championships son and you better recoknize the king when u see it. Yankees fans know whats up and as a Yankees fan i no what is goinz on all the time. 27 championships home boy and u know u wan some of that!!!!1 we got jeter and arod in this lineup allong with tiexexie who hita lots of homerruns!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! You got ****ing nothing on the yanks boy!!!! take you wannabe yankees team out west and shove it!!!!

This.

1903
08-27-2012, 12:31 AM
This.

I crafted that message in his language. I believe he might get the point now.

WadeKobe
08-27-2012, 03:29 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Are u serious?!?!?!?!?! Yankees have the best ****in lineup in all of baseball!!! Bro the YANKS whooped the Dodgers *** so many times that they ****ing ran out of NYC and hid on the west cOast!!!! We got all the championships son and you better recoknize the king when u see it. Yankees fans know whats up and as a Yankees fan i no what is goinz on all the time. 27 championships home boy and u know u wan some of that!!!!1 we got jeter and arod in this lineup allong with tiexexie who hita lots of homerruns!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! You got ****ing nothing on the yanks boy!!!! take you wannabe yankees team out west and shove it!!!!

Yankees suck, bro.

STL Don
08-27-2012, 04:08 AM
Matt Holliday hasn't even gotten the recognition he deserves this season. His numbers have been great and he's a serious candidate for MVP. Beltran's average has dipped down a bit but he's produced at a very high level for the Cards all season long. Freese, Craig and Molina have each put together all-star caliber seasons as well.
The Dodgers did improve significantly adding Gonzo and Crawford into the mix. Suddenly, the LA lineup becomes extremely dangerous.. I think Gonzalez will fit in real well while comfortably returning back into the NL and into the playoff mix.
Victorino, Hanley, Kemp, Either, Gonzalez, Crawford looks really good and now can matchup with the STL lineup, i'd say its a toss up between the two.
Out of all the lineups in the NL, they're the two that standout the most and can matchup with any of the lineups in the American League.

THINKBLUE15
08-27-2012, 04:17 AM
everyone should relax

Dodgers are the worst. Inferior to every franchise in every way

SenorGato
08-27-2012, 04:20 AM
everyone should relax

Dodgers are the worst. Inferior to every franchise in every way

Hate should be expected after your franchise puts itself out there like they just did.

Started this year hating the Dodgers for trying to be cool, but legitimately am excited to see them finish the year and then see them all play in 2013. The 2013 lineup could be fn awesome with a 2-6 of Crawford - Kemp - Gonzalez - Ramirez - Ethier.

Jeffy25
08-27-2012, 11:05 PM
You would think the best lineup in baseball would at least score a run in Colorado, or get more than 3 hits (post is as of 7th inning tonight).

d79cheese
08-27-2012, 11:25 PM
if the shutout remains intact, can this thread be closed???

or at least stricten the Dodgers from the poll??

DodgerB24
08-27-2012, 11:29 PM
Our lineup is very bipolar.

Has been all season. 1927 Yankees lineup could be playing and we would still get shutout.

t327
08-27-2012, 11:56 PM
You would think the best lineup in baseball would at least score a run in Colorado, or get more than 3 hits (post is as of 7th inning tonight).

Hey!

They got 4 hits.

Bo Sox Fan
08-28-2012, 12:21 AM
The Dodgers offence looks great on paper but is highly overrated after playing the actual games.

And there pitching? It looks absolutely atrocious after Kershaw. I don't even see L.A. making the post season. They are the pre blockbuster 2012 Boston Red Sox, in other words 'overrated'

It's the SAME STORY EVERY YEAR. pitching wins Championships and they clearly don't have it.

StickyGreenFan
08-28-2012, 12:46 AM
The Dodgers offence looks great on paper but is highly overrated after playing the actual games.

And there pitching? It looks absolutely atrocious after Kershaw. I don't even see L.A. making the post season. They are the pre blockbuster 2012 Boston Red Sox, in other words 'overrated'

It's the SAME STORY EVERY YEAR. pitching wins Championships and they clearly don't have it.

behind kershaw bills can be lights out at times, capuano is slightly above average, but if beckett struggles were in trouble =/ especially with injuries right now

DodgerB24
08-28-2012, 12:55 AM
The Dodgers offence looks great on paper but is highly overrated after playing the actual games.

And there pitching? It looks absolutely atrocious after Kershaw. I don't even see L.A. making the post season. They are the pre blockbuster 2012 Boston Red Sox, in other words 'overrated'

It's the SAME STORY EVERY YEAR. pitching wins Championships and they clearly don't have it.

Bills is a great #2 and Capuano has been solid.

Yes it's not on say Philadelphia's level of say last year, but it's not "atrocious".

CHRISDODGERS
08-28-2012, 01:31 AM
The Dodgers offence looks great on paper but is highly overrated after playing the actual games.

And there pitching? It looks absolutely atrocious after Kershaw. I don't even see L.A. making the post season. They are the pre blockbuster 2012 Boston Red Sox, in other words 'overrated'

It's the SAME STORY EVERY YEAR. pitching wins Championships and they clearly don't have it.

Like last year right?

shizzle09
08-28-2012, 02:09 AM
ill take the angels lineup all day over every one of those teams

Greedy22
08-28-2012, 04:12 AM
You would think the best lineup in baseball would at least score a run in Colorado, or get more than 3 hits (post is as of 7th inning tonight). :laugh: I was coming here to post this very thing

theproof
08-28-2012, 05:53 AM
Dodgers do not have the best lineup in my opinion. It's a very solid one that has tons of potential if most of the guys get back to their old form but as of right now I wouldn't call them the best.

Cardinals
Reds
Yankees
Rangers
Angels
Tigers
Blue Jays(Arguably)
White Sox(arguably)

All have better lineups in my opinion.

Jeffy25
08-28-2012, 09:40 AM
Rockies pitching at home this year

5.90 ERA in 601 innings (includes last night)

They had 4 road shutouts (Dodgers, Giants, D'Backs, Mets) and this was their first home shutout

VRP723
08-28-2012, 12:01 PM
Yep, the Dodgers don't have the best lineup because of that one game they played poorly.

LAFord
08-29-2012, 06:56 AM
Yep, the Dodgers don't have the best lineup because of that one game they played poorly.

Make that two games. I love the Dodger hate...bring it on...they deserve it this last couple days.

nyyfan555
08-29-2012, 10:22 AM
I would just like to say, on behalf of all the posters and viewers of this thread, thank you. This has been one of the most entertaining threads in recent memory. There was drama, comedy, science, and science fiction.




By the way, even with all the injuries, the Yankees roster is so deep that it still works out like this (just to keep the fun times rolling)......

1. Yankees
2-30. Theoretical baseball teams that can compete with them
31-100. Theoretical Average teams
100-335. Minor League teams and affiliates (yup, had to check mlb's site for that number
335-364. The other 29 current mlb teams

Ill21
08-29-2012, 10:47 AM
Rangers in the AL. Cardinals or Dodgers in the NL

JoeDirt05
09-01-2012, 05:18 AM
Rangers and cards

Halladay
09-01-2012, 05:29 AM
Dodgers do not have the best lineup in my opinion. It's a very solid one that has tons of potential if most of the guys get back to their old form but as of right now I wouldn't call them the best.

Cardinals
Reds
Yankees
Rangers
Angels
Tigers
Blue Jays(Arguably)
White Sox(arguably)

All have better lineups in my opinion.
With Bautista the Jays were, IIRC, second in the AL only ten or so runs behind the Yankees in runs scored. Once Jose went down, the team fell off the map. Pretty hard to replace a mvp type of player. I'd take the Yankees offense over any team in baseball without looking at the stats. Up and down that lineup is scary. Texas is second.

rocket
09-01-2012, 06:00 AM
Tigers should not anywhere near get mentioned they probably have the 2 worst players in baseball that constantly hit 5 and 6

Rush
09-01-2012, 12:47 PM
Tigers should not anywhere near get mentioned they probably have the 2 worst players in baseball that constantly hit 5 and 6

:confused:

BOSTONMARC
09-01-2012, 01:23 PM
the manger of the dogers is retarted the lineup should be


1. Victarino
2. H.Ramirez
3. Adrian Gonzales
4. Matt Kemp
5. Andre Eithier
6. Cruz
7. AJ Ellis
8. Ellis
9. Pitcher

raidersrock99
09-01-2012, 01:36 PM
hows that dodgers lineup looking? should make another trade

iAugust
09-01-2012, 02:09 PM
This thread was hilarious to read. I'm glad I now know to never take anything Mr. LA says seriously. One of the more ignorant series of posts I've ever seen on a message board.

Jeffy owns.

Rush
09-01-2012, 02:27 PM
the manger of the dogers is retarted the lineup should be


1. Victarino
2. H.Ramirez
3. Adrian Gonzales
4. Matt Kemp
5. Andre Eithier
6. Cruz
7. AJ Ellis
8. Ellis
9. Pitcher

I'd rather lead off Mark Ellis and have Victorino 8th and move up AJ Ellis to 6th and drop Cruz to 7th if I were the Dodgers.

rocket
09-01-2012, 04:40 PM
:confused:

?? They hit 5th and 6th.

Delmon I suck *** Young

Brennan Boeschit

Rush
09-01-2012, 05:22 PM
?? They hit 5th and 6th.

Delmon I suck *** Young

Brennan Boeschit

Ohhhhh the Tigers. I had the Rangers on the brain. Idk why.

stupidmop
09-02-2012, 03:50 PM
you guys are going too much off statistics here

Kemp
Ramirez
Cruz
Gonzalez
Victorino

^^^Those guys have barely played for the dodgers lol thats why statistically theyre not good offensively

plus Ellis and Ethier have also missed time

and to the guy that commented Holliday/Beltran have put up better numbers then Kemp/Gonzalez this season...who cares kemp/Gonzo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Holliday/Beltran dont even try to say theyre not

Quote of the year.