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Chronz
08-24-2012, 04:27 PM
http://oi47.tinypic.com/29ynszp.jpg

What were the best and worst bang for your buck players on that list?

Hawkeye15
08-24-2012, 04:33 PM
#87

thread over.

NYKnicksAllDay
08-24-2012, 04:39 PM
#87

thread over.

Yep. Pretty much.

Klivlend
08-24-2012, 04:41 PM
The worst has got to be #73. Seriously, wtf.

JordansBulls
08-24-2012, 04:42 PM
It's amazing that Ewing made more than MJ in salary for his career when they played pretty much the same time. Hell even Penny made more than MJ.

JNoel
08-24-2012, 04:43 PM
Joe Johnson will end up getting triple what Jordan made by the time his career is over.
:facepalm:

MintBerryCrunch
08-24-2012, 04:45 PM
Jermaine O'neal made bank..

HeaTxRipZz
08-24-2012, 04:46 PM
LOL hands down #87 biggest bang for buck

worst would have to be Dampere and Hughes

MetroMan
08-24-2012, 04:49 PM
juwan howard with 150 mill

brad miller with 92 mill

how did KG get so damn much ??? what 328 million

RealLiveBear
08-24-2012, 04:50 PM
It's amazing that Ewing made more than MJ in salary for his career when they played pretty much the same time. Hell even Penny made more than MJ.

Take out the cash from 2 of jordans prime years when he retired? :shrug:

Hawkeye15
08-24-2012, 04:50 PM
juwan howard with 150 mill

brad miller with 92 mill

how did KG get so damn much ??? what 328 million

KG caused the 99' lockout with that humoungous deal Taylor gave him as a kid.

Raidaz4Life
08-24-2012, 04:58 PM
How has nobody mentioned how awful #51 is yet?

Hawkeye15
08-24-2012, 05:01 PM
Joe Johnson is the 6th highest earner in NBA history? wow

JerseyPalahniuk
08-24-2012, 05:02 PM
Wow, great compilation of salaries.

Based on the relative positions of players on this list (many many players that are obviously better didn't get paid proportionally), these stick out:

Overpaid:
Joe Johnson
Rashard Lewis
Elton Brand
Brian Grant
Juwan Howard
Stephon Marbury
Jalen Rose
Larry Hughes

didn't include players who COULD have lived up to their contracts barring injury (Redd, Ming, Hill)

yes I probably missed a lot of players but those names stuck out for me


(Relatively) Underpaid:
Michael Jordan
Shawn Kemp
Hakeem Olajuwon
any Hall of Famers not on the list (Stockton)

Federal Reserve
08-24-2012, 05:02 PM
People here need to take an economics 101 class.

RealLiveBear
08-24-2012, 05:07 PM
Alls i'm gonna say is it's easy to sit here now and look back but the GMs who gave out this money didn't have that luxury... That being said... DAMN jermaine o'neal made more then I ever thought.

Ezio
08-24-2012, 05:07 PM
Coming from a guy with a name like that :laugh2:

HeaTxRipZz
08-24-2012, 05:07 PM
People here need to take an economics 101 class.

Obviously you have to take that into account but let's not act like economic difference will cover how much a difference there is between KG's 328 Mil and Jordan's 90 Mil. Huge gap there that just shows that MJ deserved more than what he took even with taking Economics into account

JerseyPalahniuk
08-24-2012, 05:09 PM
Season Team Salary
1985-86 Chicago Bulls 630,000
1987-88 Chicago Bulls 845,000
1988-89 Chicago Bulls 2,000,000
1990-91 Chicago Bulls 2,500,000
1991-92 Chicago Bulls 3,250,000
1992-93 Chicago Bulls 4,000,000
1993-94 Chicago Bulls 4,000,000
1994-95 Chicago Bulls 3,850,000
1995-96 Chicago Bulls 3,850,000
1996-97 Chicago Bulls 30,140,000
1997-98 Chicago Bulls 33,140,000
2001-02 Washington Wiz 1,000,000
2002-03 Washington Wiz 1,030,000

Got this from basketball reference. Don't know much about his salary and length of his contracts. Can anyone explain these numbers or have an article about it? Did he sign a 7 year contract his rookie year or something?

JerseyPalahniuk
08-24-2012, 05:12 PM
And Jordan is the only player ever to have an NBA salary over 30million in a season.

Lakers + Giants
08-24-2012, 05:16 PM
Wow, there's a player there that made over 120 Mil that has never been an all star. Wow, talk about over paid!

WaltonSystem
08-24-2012, 05:26 PM
#85 Brad Miller!!
WHHOOOPP WHOOOOOP!

Chronz
08-24-2012, 05:37 PM
Considering the impact Juwan Howard had (sometimes negative), I say hes in the worst 3 category

Ezio
08-24-2012, 06:05 PM
And Jordan is the only player ever to have an NBA salary over 30million in a season.

Kobe next year.

KnickaBocka.44
08-24-2012, 06:18 PM
Wow, great compilation of salaries.

Based on the relative positions of players on this list (many many players that are obviously better didn't get paid proportionally), these stick out:

Overpaid:
Joe Johnson
Rashard Lewis
Elton Brand
Brian Grant
Juwan Howard
Stephon Marbury
Jalen Rose
Larry Hughes

didn't include players who COULD have lived up to their contracts barring injury (Redd, Ming, Hill)

yes I probably missed a lot of players but those names stuck out for me


(Relatively) Underpaid:
Michael Jordan
Shawn Kemp
Hakeem Olajuwon
any Hall of Famers not on the list (Stockton)

I like this list. I would have to add:

Ilgauskas
Marbury
Houston-- if it werent for the last two years he was getting payed 17 mil & 19 mil respectively, in which he played a total of 20 games, he wouldn't even be on the list.

Ebbs
08-24-2012, 06:28 PM
juwan Howard at 150 is insane. Odom and Brian Grant making more than Jordan is hilarious. Also Durant after 5 or 6 years made more than Jordan :laugh:

It would be interesting to see the monetary change though. 90 million at the time of Jordans retirement would be more now.

b@llhog24
08-24-2012, 06:28 PM
Walker made over 108mil for his career yet he's broke. :pity:

GunFactor187
08-24-2012, 06:46 PM
Kinda funny that #50 got paid more than the guy that who drafted him, #87, lol.

JNoel
08-24-2012, 06:50 PM
Durant is probably going to have a lot of money by the time he retires...

Also Derrick Rose isn't on the list.

Lakersfanla24
08-24-2012, 07:19 PM
Kobe next year.

:facepalm: dont remind me

KnickaBocka.44
08-24-2012, 08:08 PM
juwan Howard at 150 is insane. Odom and Brian Grant making more than Jordan is hilarious. Also Durant after 5 or 6 years made more than Jordan :laugh:

It would be interesting to see the monetary change though. 90 million at the time of Jordans retirement would be more now.

Considering that Howard has played 18 years, 150 isn't that insane. That's about 8.3 mil/year and he was pretty productive toward the beginning/middle of his career.

kblo247
08-24-2012, 08:12 PM
The Good
-----
Kobe and Shaq - deserved because of what they did for basketball teams as a players and basketball franchises as commodities
Tim - might as well include him as he didn't draw at all like a star should but he did win and got paid for it


The Situational
--------
MJ - victim of time period, but got 30mil in a year as well.
Karl Malone - got paid well in Utah as he aged
Pippen - see MJ and Mailman
Hakeem

The Bad
---------
KG - that's a mfing joke. He should not have ever made more than Kobe or Shaq. He wasn't a draw. And the deal itself fd his team over because like I said it didn't offset itself with revenue or wins brought in. He should have made JO money like he got from Indy as JO had more or as much of an impact as he did in their primes on the Indy teams
Pau - Memphis did the same thing Minny did with KG. Him winning in LA got his image blown up and he got overpaid once again and maxed out because of the 3 finals run but Memphis started the trend.

The stupid
------
Ray Allen - the guy led a Seattle team to only one playoff run with another all star, didn't stick really anywhere, and fell from 3rd to 4th fiddle quick in Boston. He wasn't near the class of Kobe, Mac, AI, or even Rip and Manu at his position.
Brand - lack fo winning just doesn't justify It

**** this ****
---------
Joe Johnson
Dampier
Arenas
Grant Hill - he will never live down collecting max money for free no matter how good a guy he was and is

Mave1002
08-24-2012, 08:14 PM
22, 34.

Mave1002
08-24-2012, 08:15 PM
73 too.

kblo247
08-24-2012, 08:18 PM
Finley was good and huge int running around a terrible Mavericks franchise. He got over paid for that and then got another check from the Spurs who he helped get rings

kblo247
08-24-2012, 08:19 PM
I just noticed Abdur Rahim - aka the walking empty stat loser.

Vin Baker is a tough one. The money wasn't a waste if he wasn't a drunk IMO

KnickaBocka.44
08-24-2012, 08:36 PM
The Good
-----
Kobe and Shaq - deserved because of what they did for basketball teams as a players and basketball franchises as commodities
Tim - might as well include him as he didn't draw at all like a star should but he did win and got paid for it


The Situational
--------
MJ - victim of time period, but got 30mil in a year as well.
Karl Malone - got paid well in Utah as he aged
Pippen - see MJ and Mailman
Hakeem

The Bad
---------
KG - that's a mfing joke. He should not have ever made more than Kobe or Shaq. He wasn't a draw. And the deal itself fd his team over because like I said it didn't offset itself with revenue or wins brought in. He should have made JO money like he got from Indy as JO had more or as much of an impact as he did in their primes on the Indy teams
Pau - Memphis did the same thing Minny did with KG. Him winning in LA got his image blown up and he got overpaid once again and maxed out because of the 3 finals run but Memphis started the trend.

The stupid
------
Ray Allen - the guy led a Seattle team to only one playoff run with another all star, didn't stick really anywhere, and fell from 3rd to 4th fiddle quick in Boston. He wasn't near the class of Kobe, Mac, AI, or even Rip and Manu at his position.
Brand - lack fo winning just doesn't justify It

**** this ****
---------
Joe Johnson
Dampier
Arenas
Grant Hill - he will never live down collecting max money for free no matter how good a guy he was and is


Yeah, that was all Grant Hill's fault that his ankle got infected multiple times after surgery. The guy ALMOST DIED, I think he has lived it down, plus he would have been worth every dime.

And as far as Ray Allen: He is the all-time leader in 3's. He played for the bucks before the sonics and was very good for them as well.

Mr. Baller
08-24-2012, 08:43 PM
I feel like half of these guys are well over paid for their production :laugh:

seikou8
08-24-2012, 09:18 PM
joe joshson is 6 and carlos boozer really

KnickaBocka.44
08-24-2012, 09:26 PM
Looking at that list again, it is pretty hard to believe that KG has made just about double what the number 11 & 12 guys have, especially since one of them (jermaine o'neal) was drafted just one year later.

AKAYaReal
08-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Jordan was one of the main reasons players were able to get those huge contracts.

You also have to remember Jordon took off 2yrs after his father was killed in 94&95.

Puck017
08-24-2012, 09:57 PM
Am I ocd if it bothers me that they didn't put 25 players in each of the 4 columns?

kblo247
08-24-2012, 10:04 PM
Yeah, that was all Grant Hill's fault that his ankle got infected multiple times after surgery. The guy ALMOST DIED, I think he has lived it down, plus he would have been worth every dime.

And as far as Ray Allen: He is the all-time leader in 3's. He played for the bucks before the sonics and was very good for them as well.

Hill still stole max money and in the process T-Macs prime to boot. Bad luck or not, he wasn't worth that investment as the others at least played for their money, even Dampier. Now he's been worth what Ohoenix and Detorit gave him, but Orlando got ****ed up the *** without lube by that deal and broke Tracy's back in the process

-----

Ray had 3 playoff runs in 6 1/2 years as a Buck, only one of which was even respectable. He had 1 playoff run in Seattle in 4 1/2 years with another fellow all star in Lewis and couldn't finish better than the Warriors or KB8/LO7 Lakers despite more depth than the d league talent those two had. He won a ring in Boston as part of the big 3, then got demoted to 4th, then the bench, and then got so hot he left for the enemy who beat them for less cash.

Allen never was a game changer as the best or second best player. He wasn't a noise maker. He wasn't the guy who led teams by putting them on his back. He made 3s, he helped Boton win, and may help Miami but he's overpaid in relation to his SG counterparts in Kobe, Iverson, McGrady, Manu, Wade, Rip, and Vince all of whom were better and more dynamic from a competitive standpoint.

Ray won't even have a jersey retired unless if the Sonics are brought back as he on top of not making his teams playoff performers regularly burnt his bridges in Milwaukee and Boston on the way out like a petulant child. Hs HOF, not denying, but he wasn't ever a superstar. He wasnt even a same caliber all star as Vince or Rip when it came to helping a team win

Faneik
08-24-2012, 11:35 PM
The stupid
------
Ray Allen - the guy led a Seattle team to only one playoff run with another all star, didn't stick really anywhere, and fell from 3rd to 4th fiddle quick in Boston. He wasn't near the class of Kobe, Mac, AI, or even Rip and Manu at his position.


you must be out of your damn mind

Sixerlover
08-24-2012, 11:37 PM
I'll tell you, I gotta congratulate Joe Johnson on making 200 million dollars without ever being a top 10 player in the league at any point. He has an amazing agent.

jp611
08-24-2012, 11:43 PM
Joe Johnson. Wow.

MJ is obviously best bang for your buck

seikou8
08-24-2012, 11:46 PM
kevin garnett sorry but he is not worth that money and make more than kobe micheal and shaq.

soundjunkies2
08-25-2012, 12:02 AM
#51 Brian Grant

Was this guy even an all-star at any point in his career?

Pierzynski4Prez
08-25-2012, 12:22 AM
How has nobody mentioned 78

Blazers#1Fan
08-25-2012, 01:12 AM
It's amazing that Ewing made more than MJ in salary for his career when they played pretty much the same time. Hell even Penny made more than MJ.

Thats the reason ewing never got a ring no disrespect but as i remember mj played on a yearly contract for along time and took less to keep his teams together crazy thing is shareef abdul raheem made more then mj but mj's endorsements now made him more money then when he played he still makes 70-100million a year on endorsements he made way less in the 80's 90's early 00's

nicegoing
08-25-2012, 01:15 AM
Jordan is worth $500 million now so I think he's good.

seikou8
08-25-2012, 01:17 AM
Jordan is worth $500 million now so I think he's good.

yup

KnickNyKnick
08-25-2012, 01:28 AM
#26 whoa

DreamShaker
08-25-2012, 02:15 AM
#51 Brian Grant

Was this guy even an all-star at any point in his career?

Nope. He did try to murder Yao Ming a few times on the court, though. That was the weakest era of big men in my lifetime. That is why him, Dampier, Big Z, Brad Miller, and a few others are on the list. They were overpaying some mediocre bigs at that time.

kblo247
08-25-2012, 03:01 AM
you must be out of your damn mind

I would take Pistons Rip over Seattle Allen. Pistons Rip played both sides of the ball, and even made plays. Allen didn't make anyone better, he didn't defend, and he didn't even win or make his team respectable in what should have been his prime despite having all star help. Rip helped turned the Pistons around before Sheed even got there and easily replaced Stack

JoyRide
08-25-2012, 03:17 AM
Mike Bibby at 55 :laugh2:

DenButsu
08-25-2012, 03:31 AM
I'd like to see that list adjusted for inflation and relative top league salaries. In pure dollars, it's distorted by time.

naps
08-25-2012, 04:06 AM
And Jordan still made an empire worth more than $500 million dollars. Dude was/is a marketing machine. Imagine his bank account if he played in todays league :speechless:

Aleksandar
08-25-2012, 04:22 AM
Many of those guys are overpaid but Eric Dampier.. Insane!

BirdIsTheWord
08-25-2012, 04:28 AM
Blake Griffin (67) and Kevin Durant (53) are going to be topping the chart when they retire.

Faneik
08-25-2012, 04:33 AM
I would take Pistons Rip over Seattle Allen. Pistons Rip played both sides of the ball, and even made plays. Allen didn't make anyone better, he didn't defend, and he didn't even win or make his team respectable in what should have been his prime despite having all star help. Rip helped turned the Pistons around before Sheed even got there and easily replaced Stack

weak argument.

career wise, Allen averages more steals, blocks, rebounds and assists.

In fact, in all categories Allen has better numbers.

"Rip helped turned the Pistons around" - well you're talking about the most balanced team in the history of the sport. You're right he was important, but so was Billups, Prince, Rasheed, Big Ben.

Again, if you think Rip is a better basketball player than Ray Allen you're out of your damn mind.

Btw, I made a poll thread, so other psd'ers can help us settle this debate. Right now it's in the main forum, if it isn't there anymore, it will be in the comparisons forum.

Vinny642
08-25-2012, 06:39 AM
Erick Dampier, Juwan Howard and Rashard Lewis are amazing

Aust
08-25-2012, 06:42 AM
Chris Webber, AI, Rashard Lewis

My 3 favorite numbers

JasonJohnHorn
08-25-2012, 07:28 AM
Jordan is the best bang for your buck easily. Though Bird and Magic made much less than jordan which would mean they were much better deals.

Worst is perhaps Eric Dampier.

Federal Reserve
08-25-2012, 10:56 AM
Kobe's current contract is a joke: he's severely overpaid.

Jagged QT
08-25-2012, 11:46 AM
#49 for me.

100 million in earnings, and only one first round knockout.

Jagged QT
08-25-2012, 11:47 AM
Kobe's current contract is a joke: he's severely overpaid.
How is that? He makes the Lakers boatloads of money.

Even a declining Kobe still dropped close to 28ppg.

VinceCarter
08-25-2012, 12:53 PM
#11, 21, and 26 are bad.

lakers4sho
08-25-2012, 01:17 PM
Is this even inflation adjusted?

kblo247
08-25-2012, 01:19 PM
weak argument.

career wise, Allen averages more steals, blocks, rebounds and assists.

In fact, in all categories Allen has better numbers.

"Rip helped turned the Pistons around" - well you're talking about the most balanced team in the history of the sport. You're right he was important, but so was Billups, Prince, Rasheed, Big Ben.

Again, if you think Rip is a better basketball player than Ray Allen you're out of your damn mind.

Btw, I made a poll thread, so other psd'ers can help us settle this debate. Right now it's in the main forum, if it isn't there anymore, it will be in the comparisons forum.

Rip was before Prince and Sheed. they only got knocked off by Kidd's nets. Rip was a better winner than Rey. A better first/second best player too cause all rays teams didn't do **** with him as the man despite having all star compliments. Ray was a third guy at best in any winning environment.

Rip is a better leader, Rip is a better winner, and Rip will be the one with a jersey retired before him

4 playoff trips in 11 years with a talented 2nd or 2nd and 3rd and close to max money isn't money well spent. He didn't even make the money back for his teams to go with not winning and not being competitive as the man. Rays contract investment were bad for Milwaukee and Seattle in his prime to boot when they had other players at his position like Kobe, Tracy, and Iverson willing teams to playoffs with less talent. Rip least gave Detorit their freakign money's worth before Sheed came and then after in his prime,

kblo247
08-25-2012, 01:22 PM
Kobe's current contract is a joke: he's severely overpaid.

He makes the team well over 80M by himself, TWC negotiated an all Kobe block in that multi billion dollar deal, and he had generated more revenue than any other laker for the franchise back in 05. You would have to be a joke to not get the commodity Kobe is on that list compared to everyone but MJ

Sly Guy
08-25-2012, 01:27 PM
it's tough to judge when you've got a list dotted with current players. Their salaries [barring injury] will undoubtedly increase in the future by unforseen amounts during their free agency periods.

VinceCarter
08-25-2012, 01:32 PM
Is this even inflation adjusted?

This. :clap:

Faneik
08-25-2012, 02:36 PM
Rip was before Prince and Sheed. they only got knocked off by Kidd's nets. Rip was a better winner than Rey. A better first/second best player too cause all rays teams didn't do **** with him as the man despite having all star compliments. Ray was a third guy at best in any winning environment.

Rip is a better leader, Rip is a better winner, and Rip will be the one with a jersey retired before him

you're delusional

check out this thread
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=756078
19-0 favoring Ray

what? :D

let me guess... 19 guys are wrong and you're right
lolz

Greedy22
08-25-2012, 03:04 PM
The Good
-----
Kobe and Shaq - deserved because of what they did for basketball teams as a players and basketball franchises as commodities
Tim - might as well include him as he didn't draw at all like a star should but he did win and got paid for it


The Situational
--------
MJ - victim of time period, but got 30mil in a year as well.
Karl Malone - got paid well in Utah as he aged
Pippen - see MJ and Mailman
Hakeem

The Bad
---------
KG - that's a mfing joke. He should not have ever made more than Kobe or Shaq. He wasn't a draw. And the deal itself fd his team over because like I said it didn't offset itself with revenue or wins brought in. He should have made JO money like he got from Indy as JO had more or as much of an impact as he did in their primes on the Indy teams
Pau - Memphis did the same thing Minny did with KG. Him winning in LA got his image blown up and he got overpaid once again and maxed out because of the 3 finals run but Memphis started the trend.

The stupid
------
Ray Allen - the guy led a Seattle team to only one playoff run with another all star, didn't stick really anywhere, and fell from 3rd to 4th fiddle quick in Boston. He wasn't near the class of Kobe, Mac, AI, or even Rip and Manu at his position.
Brand - lack fo winning just doesn't justify It

**** this ****
---------
Joe Johnson
Dampier
Arenas
Grant Hill - he will never live down collecting max money for free no matter how good a guy he was and is

Great post, but you're being a little harsh on KG over it being a mfing joke...he was an absolute beast his entire tenure in minnesota. As for Grant Hill you can't fault in for the infections he got after his surgeries.

KnickaBocka.44
08-25-2012, 03:22 PM
I would take Pistons Rip over Seattle Allen. Pistons Rip played both sides of the ball, and even made plays. Allen didn't make anyone better, he didn't defend, and he didn't even win or make his team respectable in what should have been his prime despite having all star help. Rip helped turned the Pistons around before Sheed even got there and easily replaced Stack

None of this is true. You obviously didn't even look at Ray Allen's stats for his career otherwise you would never even try and make this argument.

Ray Allen will most likely be in the hall of fame.

KnickaBocka.44
08-25-2012, 03:28 PM
Hill still stole max money and in the process T-Macs prime to boot. Bad luck or not, he wasn't worth that investment as the others at least played for their money, even Dampier. Now he's been worth what Ohoenix and Detorit gave him, but Orlando got ****ed up the *** without lube by that deal and broke Tracy's back in the process

-----

Ray had 3 playoff runs in 6 1/2 years as a Buck, only one of which was even respectable. He had 1 playoff run in Seattle in 4 1/2 years with another fellow all star in Lewis and couldn't finish better than the Warriors or KB8/LO7 Lakers despite more depth than the d league talent those two had. He won a ring in Boston as part of the big 3, then got demoted to 4th, then the bench, and then got so hot he left for the enemy who beat them for less cash.

Allen never was a game changer as the best or second best player. He wasn't a noise maker. He wasn't the guy who led teams by putting them on his back. He made 3s, he helped Boton win, and may help Miami but he's overpaid in relation to his SG counterparts in Kobe, Iverson, McGrady, Manu, Wade, Rip, and Vince all of whom were better and more dynamic from a competitive standpoint.

Ray won't even have a jersey retired unless if the Sonics are brought back as he on top of not making his teams playoff performers regularly burnt his bridges in Milwaukee and Boston on the way out like a petulant child. Hs HOF, not denying, but he wasn't ever a superstar. He wasnt even a same caliber all star as Vince or Rip when it came to helping a team win

And as for your Grant Hill argument; none of that is his fault. I would have loved to see him and T-MAC play together but you can't blame him for what happened to him. It was a freak incident. I suggest you do some reading on it before you go around badmouthing guys like Grant Hill, whom everyone respects.

Faneik
08-25-2012, 04:01 PM
None of this is true. You obviously didn't even look at Ray Allen's stats for his career otherwise you would never even try and make this argument.

Ray Allen will most likely be in the hall of fame.

kblo is delusional and will never admit he's wrong.

SteBO
08-25-2012, 04:14 PM
Danny Ferry is probably looking at this list and wiping off plenty of sweat off his head.

blastmasta26
08-25-2012, 04:33 PM
Inflation and the two years of retirement in his prime make Jordan's ranking look worse than it is. He probably could have hit at least $130 mil had he played those two years, placing him around 38. Still far below many players, but much closer than the current 87 spot implies.

kblo247
08-26-2012, 05:55 AM
Great post, but you're being a little harsh on KG over it being a mfing joke...he was an absolute beast his entire tenure in minnesota. As for Grant Hill you can't fault in for the infections he got after his surgeries.

KG was a great player, but the market he was in couldnt sustain that deal and winning. There is no reason he should have got that money when Kobe, Shaq, and Tim were better or prime JO for that matter was a better center piece on a perennial contender. It just made no sense at the time for his talent or the Minnesota market that he got that deal as he never earned it in terms of his play being worlds over everyone else or being a revenue draw. Heck prime Iverson or Kidd for what they did in Jersey and Phili are more deserving of that type cash as Iverson drew revenue and Kidd drew revenue and turned a franchise around by walking in the door. It just was a horrible deal from a Minny owner who grossly overpaid to keep his guy and try to make a PR splash with the "Big Ticket"
--------

Grant Hill isn't at fault, but there is no way any person can say his deal ended up being good or that he earned the majority of his money. He didn't. He wasn't out there playing. It was unfortunate, I know he almost died, but he didn't earn anything Orlando gave him truly and he really only hurt their team and Tracys career. His deal was horrible in retrospect .... I'd argue it was the equivalent of Allen Houston if not worse since Houston at least helped the knicks get a finals run
-----


Ray had 4 playoff runs in 11 years pre Boston, most short. He got kicked out the Bucks because he and their big 3 were butting heads. He butted heads with Karl. He went to be the man in Seattle and underachieved even more as a franchise player, 1 playoff run in 4 1/2 years. His SG counterparts in Kobe, Iverson, McGrady, Carter, Wade all got their teams to the playoffs with less talent than he was given in Seattle, and Ray was in his prime. He underachieved. The young Ray butted heads with established talent in Sam I Am and Big Dog, so he wouldn't have been as accepting as Rip was to just go and fit in with the much traded Billups and undrafted guy Ben. Rip went and he fit in, which young Ray *****ed over to he got kicked out his first team for a Payton that was closer to 40 than 30, when he was supposed to be entering his prime. The Pistons were a team built on hardwork, defense, and team work, and young Ray wasn't ready for that at all as he had to be humbled and shown he wasn't a superstar. He was and will go down as a better individual player than Rip, but not a team guy or a winner mentality wise back then. Manuhad a much better team attire to and fit in better to help foster a winning culture than young Ray

I still stand by the fat that his tenures being so short and how he left Boston may make him the HOF who doesn't have his jersey retired anywhere unless if the Sonics are revived. Likewise I stick with the fact he wasn't worth that money when his prime and pre-Boston years only see 4 playoff runs out of 11 and the league saw other SGs in Kobe, Mac, AI, VC do what he couldn't individually in the W and L column as well as guys like Rip and Manu basically play the role he finally won doing in Boston after he had been traded for his ego, then failed as a franchise guy horribly, to accept willingly being a 3rd piece of the puzzle. Ray was no superstar, he was no max player in terms of the on court value in Ws and Ls in his youth and prime is my point, which makes him overpaid grossly as well

Vinylman
08-26-2012, 12:06 PM
Blake Griffin (67) and Kevin Durant (53) are going to be topping the chart when they retire.

no they won't

max salaries are declining and the figures in that chart include their current contracts which go out another 4 or 5 years...

only one who has a chance based on the current cba to pass garnett is kobe and that is highly unlikely

Vinylman
08-26-2012, 12:08 PM
weak argument.

career wise, Allen averages more steals, blocks, rebounds and assists.

In fact, in all categories Allen has better numbers.

"Rip helped turned the Pistons around" - well you're talking about the most balanced team in the history of the sport. You're right he was important, but so was Billups, Prince, Rasheed, Big Ben.

Again, if you think Rip is a better basketball player than Ray Allen you're out of your damn mind.

Btw, I made a poll thread, so other psd'ers can help us settle this debate. Right now it's in the main forum, if it isn't there anymore, it will be in the comparisons forum.


it is always entertaining to watch people argue the greatness of 2nd Tier SG's

Priceless :clap:

Hawkeye15
08-26-2012, 12:23 PM
Inflation and the two years of retirement in his prime make Jordan's ranking look worse than it is. He probably could have hit at least $130 mil had he played those two years, placing him around 38. Still far below many players, but much closer than the current 87 spot implies.

Oh for sure. Any player who retired or was old as dirt by 1998 didn't make anywhere near the money the players have the last 13 years. Hell, KG caused the lockout more or less, when guys like Karl Malone complained that is was bull **** he was getting a $120 million deal at age 22 when Malone hadn't made that in his HOF career at that point.

PleaseBeNice
08-26-2012, 12:27 PM
Wow Kevin Martin is top 50

xxplayerxx23
08-26-2012, 12:51 PM
87 :puke:

cheetos185
08-26-2012, 01:50 PM
It's amazing that Ewing made more than MJ in salary for his career when they played pretty much the same time. Hell even Penny made more than MJ.

Didn't ewing play 2 more seasons than MJ

Best Contract - MJ

Worst Contract - Joe Johnson/Rashard Lewis

LA_Raiders
08-26-2012, 02:18 PM
Looks like Kobe is going to take the #1 spot with $30M/yr for 2 more years...

gilly
08-26-2012, 03:08 PM
A better way to assess this would be how much in % a players salary takes of the salary cap.

Also, this should be inflation adjusted.

Chronz
08-26-2012, 03:36 PM
Ray Allen is being severely underrated

KnickaBocka.44
08-26-2012, 03:48 PM
Looks like Kobe is going to take the #1 spot with $30M/yr for 2 more years...

No. It says on the bottom that all current contracts are already included in the totals.

blastmasta26
08-26-2012, 08:46 PM
Ray Allen is being severely underrated
As a bad contract or as a great player?

smiddy012
08-26-2012, 11:32 PM
As if I needed any more reason to hate that POS Carlos Boozer. The man is in the league for two reasons, to get paid and to get laid.

TmacBryant
08-26-2012, 11:35 PM
This is inflation, I don't know why everyone is crying about how much superstars are making now compared to the 80s and 90s.

Anyways how much did Kareem Abdul Jabbar make in his career?

kblo247
08-27-2012, 04:51 AM
Ray Allen is being severely underrated

Saying

- he wasn't a franchise player
- Iverson, McGrady, Carter, Kobe, Wade were better and more competing with less help
- his jersey won't be retired anywhere sans Seattle if they egt a team back
- he wasn't a superstar or max guy based on team success 4/11 playoff runs pre Boston
- he wasn't willing to play a role or fit in like Rip or Manu when he was young and entering his prime which is why he was shipped to Seattle (where he failed as the man at horribly)

Is it not true? His stats are good, but he's the Joe Johnson of that era which was known for SG play as other guys outperformed him, carried their teams better, and made teams money back to offset their deals and make them worth their money. And to be fair to Joe, unlike Ray, his teams were perennial playoff participants at least even if his deal sucks monkey balls, which it does


My questions are how can the money he made be well spent
1 - if he only had 4 playoff trips in 11 years pre Boston and with all star talent those years?
2 - there were other SG's playing with less talent yet winning more and performing better in a SG heavy era?
3 - if he wasn't drawing in fans and revenue to offset his max deal, which he wasn't as Seattle lost their team after his years as the man?

MackSnackWrap
08-27-2012, 06:43 AM
Joe Johnson will end up getting triple what Jordan made by the time his career is over.
:facepalm:

LOL. oh well Im sure Jordan shoes bring in more than enough to compensate

pg64159
08-27-2012, 08:42 AM
#43 and #51 - worst bang for the buck!

LongWayFromHome
08-27-2012, 12:07 PM
Yao

MrfadeawayJB
08-27-2012, 01:12 PM
Yeah of course Jordan (#87) but i would also say Ginoboli (#80)

Jenceman
08-27-2012, 02:12 PM
Boston retires everyone's jersey so I could see them retiring Ray Allen's

Chronz
08-27-2012, 03:06 PM
Saying

- he wasn't a franchise player

Still depends on how you define that, I dont think he was a main draw but I have no idea how to rate that.



- Iverson, McGrady, Carter, Kobe, Wade were better and more competing with less help

It was a golden era of SG's, to not shine higher than the 2nd greatest SG ever, the 2nd, 3rd greatest peak SG isnt a damning mark. Im sure its where you draw the line, but I would argue he had a better year than a bunch of guys on that list at some point in his career.


- his jersey won't be retired anywhere sans Seattle if they egt a team back

Really? Retired jerseys shouldnt factor into anything. Tmac wont be getting his jersey retired anywhere, he left teams on bad terms and didnt stay longer than 5 years anywhere. These guys were nomads


- he wasn't a superstar or max guy based on team success 4/11 playoff runs pre Boston

His teams offense was elite every year with him leading the charge, its not his fault he didnt have any kind of defensive support. There is only so much a single SG can do, even Kobe.


- he wasn't willing to play a role or fit in like Rip or Manu when he was young and entering his prime which is why he was shipped to Seattle (where he failed as the man at horribly)
I cant remember the talk at the time but Im pretty sure Seattle wasnt even expected to make the playoffs much less advance to the 2nd round. I dont have details on why that Milwaukee team imploded but I do know the Sonics were relieved to have traded GP for him and that the Sonics improved beyond expectation. Their only mistake was not realizing it was a finished product, not something to build on.


Is it not true? His stats are good, but he's the Joe Johnson of that era which was known for SG play as other guys outperformed him, carried their teams better, and made teams money back to offset their deals and make them worth their money. And to be fair to Joe, unlike Ray, his teams were perennial playoff participants at least even if his deal sucks monkey balls, which it does

JJ left a dominant team to become the man on a lottery team, isnt that worse than whatever minor clash Ray had?


My questions are how can the money he made be well spent
1 - if he only had 4 playoff trips in 11 years pre Boston and with all star talent those years?
2 - there were other SG's playing with less talent yet winning more and performing better in a SG heavy era?
3 - if he wasn't drawing in fans and revenue to offset his max deal, which he wasn't as Seattle lost their team after his years as the man?

1- Honestly dont see the point here, are you suggesting the years that both Tmac and Kobe missed the playoffs, it made them unworthy of their money? Ray may not have stacked up among those guys overall but he did have his years. I think you resent him for his rivalry with Kobe above anything.

2- I know I saw the break down earlier, I think you underrate Ray's best seasons and his impact in general.

3- Ill take your word for it, that would definitely influence his monetary worth, I really wish he would have signed with LA right when they were about to go on that run. I doubt the fans dont show up with Ray headlining the playoff Clips.

Chronz
08-27-2012, 03:13 PM
As a bad contract or as a great player?

Great player, the comparison to JJ is hideous. I refuse to acknowledge his "playoff appearances" as a sign of equality on the bad salary scale. Ray may have 1 less playoff run than JJ (prime) but he definitely showed up in the playoffs more often than JJ.

Tony_Starks
08-27-2012, 08:25 PM
I can't really buy into the big knock on JJ. Yes they overdid it but I've always liked his game. In PHoenix as a role player he was very productive. In ATL for him to have the success he had when the offense was basically give him the ball and iso everynight is actually a big deal.

Now that he's back with a legit PG I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a monster year.......

kblo247
08-27-2012, 09:36 PM
Great player, the comparison to JJ is hideous. I refuse to acknowledge his "playoff appearances" as a sign of equality on the bad salary scale. Ray may have 1 less playoff run than JJ (prime) but he definitely showed up in the playoffs more often than JJ.

I look at it this way. To be worth the moeny, you need to draw revenue and be a great player. Hear me out, even if he wasn't the natural draw of Kobe (no one but MJ truly tops him) or Mac and AI, he had to have led his team to playoff runs. Those said playoff runs means two things. His team is at least respectably competitive and that the franchise can make money off additional revenue from those added games like Joe did for the Hawks as stupid as going there looked at first 6-7 years ago.

Ray missed the playoffs basically 2/3 of his career pre-Boston in what should have been his prime and peak as a player. Statistically Ray was damn good, I won't use great because he was never a superstar truly and I reserve great for guys who were in that golden age. T-mAc missed a year in his prime and Kobe missed a playoff run but they were still worth said money because they brought in far more than they made even then to go with their play

To me if you aren't helping your team win which he didn't in Seattle, and aren't making money that offsets your deal and drawing like a true star while getting max dollars, just means you weren't worth the price. The Bucks experiment failing was a blemish but hey he as young, Sam was well Sam, and Big Dog wasn't known as being easy to play with and they all screwed that up wanting to be the guy under Carl and not willing to sacrifice their game and fit in like Sam would do for the Wolves and Clips and Ray did in Boston, like contempres Rip and Manu were doing at the time for rings.

I just can't say he is a true max player and deserving of it based on his success as the leader or main cogs of teams pre Boston which got him said contracts. Then again I'm of th belief all together that max deals only should ever go to Kobe, Shaq, TMac, AI, MJ, Bron, Wade, Dwight, KD, Magic, Duncan, Reggie, Bird types personally and to me Ray was a good rung or two below that level