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Catfish1314
08-21-2012, 04:04 AM
Every summer, PSD holds a game which mocks that year's NBA offseason. This year, users from the site were randomly assigned the reigns of NBA franchises and had to utilize their skills via draft, trades, and free agency to improve their teams. At the end of the game, GMs voted on how they believed the regular season of this game would shake up. These are the playoffs of PSD's 2012 NBA Mock Offseason.

Please take the time to consider each line up, the match-up itself, and vote on which team you believe would win in a seven game series.

The Pacers have homecourt advantage in this Eastern Conference Finals series.

Pacers Depth Chart:

C: Roy Hibbert | Ronny Turiaf
PF: Josh Smith | Brandon Bass | Draymond Green
SF: Danny Granger | Matt Barnes | Jeffrey Taylor
SG: Dwyane Wade | Marco Bellinelli | Darius Miller
PG: Stephen Curry | Mario Chalmers

Celtics Depth Chart:

PG-Deron Williams/Kirk Hirnich
SG-James Harden/Arron Afflalo
SF-Jared Dudley/Jeff Green
PF-Paul Millsap/Darrell Arthur/Jeff Green
C-Marcin Gortat/Darrell Arthur/Fab Melo

Pacers Write-up:


Congratulations to NYANKS79 & ILLWILL21 for making it to the Eastern Conference Finals in the NBA Mock. They have done an excellent job rebuilding and retooling that Celtics roster.

Although they have revamped that roster completely, this will be the end of the Celtics run as they face a Pacers team with the PERFECT mix of veteran leadership and youth.

With Dwyane Wade, a 2x NBA Finals winner and 1x NBA Finals MVP, we have build the perfect team around him to allow him to make another trip to the NBA Finals and a very good shot at winning it all.

Depth Chart:
PG: Stephen Curry (30) | Mario Chalmers (18)
SG: Dwyane Wade (38) | Marco Belinelli (10)
SF: Danny Granger (36) | Matt Barnes (12)
PF: Josh Smith (24) | Brandon Bass (24)
C: Roy Hibbert (32) | Josh Smith (12) | Ronny Turiaf (4)
Now to the match-ups:

PG Match-Up: Stephen Curry/Mario Chalmers vs. Deron Williams/Kirk Hinrich
Now from a first glance look one would say that the Celtics would definitely win this match-up and we won’t argue with that. Deron Williams is a stud. But let’s not neglect how they’ve matched up over their careers. In a 5 game span starting in the 2010 season and into the 2011 season when these two faced off their numbers have been:
Curry – 33.6 MPG | 13.8 ppg | 2.8 RPG | 5.8 APG (W/L: (2-3)
Williams – 36 MPG | 13.6 PPG | 4.0 RPG | 10.8 APG (W/L: 3-2)
Let’s not pretend that Curry is on par with Williams because that isn’t the point we are trying to make. The point we are trying to make is that although Williams is the superior talent, but the perception might be that Williams would dominate this match-up would be off-based. Curry has been extremely competitive with Williams and can match-up with Williams. When Curry is not on the floor, we have 1x NBA Finals winner Mario Chalmers who can provide floor-spacing, defense, and leadership coming off a Finals victory. Hinrich has digressed but is still talented. He isn’t the same tenacious defender he once was but is still a solid player.
Stephen Curry’s role on this team to be a secondary playmaker, a spot-up shooter, and to really capitalize on Dwyane Wade’s playmaking makes him the perfect and ideal compliment at PG especially in this series.
Deron might be the better talent but Deron is going to have his hands full throughout this series with the sharpshooting, Stephen Curry.

Advantage: Slight edge to the Celtics

SG Match-Up: Dwyane Wade/Marco Belinelli vs. James Harden/Arron Afflalo
This is a match-up the Pacers love. Just want to rewind everyone back to the Finals series we just witnessed.
In that series, Harden only scored in double digit twice, and his shooting % was held to below 33% in 3 of those games. Harden choked. He was largely responsible for the downfall of that OKC Thunder team and now he is being asked to play a bigger role for the Celtics against an opponent who has owned him throughout his career.
Dwyane Wade has always outplayed, outclassed, and dominated James Harden.
For the regular season numbers when they’ve faced off:
Wade: 39MPG | 23.3 PPG | 5.3 RPG | 3.8 APG | 2.8 SPG
Harden: 26.3 MPG | 11.2 PPG | 3.7 RPG | 3.0 APG |1.0 SPG
Post-season (last year’s Finals series)
Wade: 40.6 MPG | 22.6 PPG | 6.0 RPG | 5.2 APG
Harden: 32.8 MPG | 12.4 PPG | 4.8 RPG | 3.6 APG

Wade would dominate Harden once again in this series. Now I understand they have Afflalo off the bench, but if they are going to utilize Harden as their 2nd option next to Williams it will severely limit Afflalo’s minutes. Belinelli works as a bit of a sparkplug to give Wade rest whenever needed with his ability to efficiently score. With Wade dominating Harden and Afflalo and Belinelli being close. The Pacers have the edge.

Advantage: Pacers

SF Matchup: Danny Granger/Matt Barnes vs. Jared Dudley/Jeff Green
This is another matchup that will go in Indiana’s favor. Granger provides another fantastic floor spacer for the Pacers and is an ideal second option for the team. Though people think he’s regressed, it’s not true. His basic stats have suffered because his usage went down as his team got better, but he’s still an efficient scorer, a great defender, and a sniper from deep. He’d mesh very well with this squad, and because of his unique role as a floor spacer and slasher (more off the ball with Wade on the floor), he would thrive. Against Dudley, Granger would fair GREAT because Dudley isn’t a great iso defender or spot up defender. In their careers when going up against each other Granger has averaged close to 25 ppg and Dudley only about 9 ppg. When Granger is on the floor with Wade, he’ll most likely be slashing or spotting up from deep, and with an elite penetrator in Wade, Granger will get tons of great looks. Also, we don’t know how Jeff Green will play after his injury, though he is a very talented player. Barnes brings toughness and energy off the bench at the backup wing spot.

Advantage: Pacers

PF Matchup: Josh Smith/Brandon Bass vs. Paul Millsap/Darrelle Arthur
This will be a very close matchup, but we feel that Smith has the upper hand. He had yet another great year defensively, leading the league in Defensive Win Shares and leading that injury riddled Atlanta squad to the playoffs. Smith’s downfall comes on the offensive end. He’s not a very efficient scorer but that won’t be a problem on this team because his usage will be much less as a 4th or 5th option on offense. On this team he’ll be able to focus on defense and rebounding, which are the two aspects of the game that he’s best at. Though Millsap had a great year on Utah, he is going to have a tough time scoring on Smith. Smith is one of the quicker PFs in the game and matches up very well with Millsap because of his length, strength and quickness. Smith should be able to limit Millsap in this series. Off the bench, Bass provides fantastic defense, as evident by his great synergy numbers. He also can hit the mid range jumper with ease and serves as a fanastic backup big because he can limit opposing bigs and is a threat on offense.

Advantage: Pacers

C Matchup: Roy Hibbert/Ronny Turiaf vs. Marcin Gortat/Fab Melo
The starters here, in Roy Hibbert and Marcin Gortat, are very similar in production. Hibbert is a much better defender, but Gortat is a better offensive weapon. However, the game changer here will be the backups. Hibbert has talent offensively, and can score in a variety of ways: back to the basket, face up, P&R, etc. This can get Gortat into some foul trouble which leaves Fab Melo to back him up. If Melo is in the game, Wade is going to have a field day driving to the hoop and Hibbert will have a field day downlow. Melo is a talented defender from college, but he has proven nothing in the league so far and depending on him as a backup center could cost Boston a game or two. Another issue with Melo is that he has no offensive game which let’s Hibbert troll the paint and play a lot of help defense.

Advantage: Pacers

The Celtics built a talented team but they just don’t have the firepower and depth that the Pacers flaunt. A positional advantage at SG-C, as well as a better bench, more playoff experience, and a team that meshes perfectly is just too much for Boston. The Pacers take this series in 5-6 games.

Celtics Write-up:


The Celtics writeup will not be position X vs position X. In todays basketball, and especially the way both our teams are constructed and balanced, I believe it is better to look at and compare the role on the team.

#1 Option- Deron Williams vs Dwayne Wade

While many people may just see Wades name and say is the better option, I think if you break it down alittle further, Deron might have a slight edge here. First off, the roster around Deron is perfect for him. He has one of the best P&R bigs in Gortat finishing 10th in PPP. Milsap is also another strong athletic player who can run the P&R. Both players are also very good and running the floor which fits Deron extremely well. Then we have shooters and other players who can create on the wing who fit Deron great as well. Also in the matchup Deron is going against Curry, who is not known for his defense to say the least. Deron is stronger, quicker and more athletic. Deron will score, assist and be strong defensively here.

On the Pacers, Wade has to create for himself. He has not been in this role in 2 years and now he is 2 years older. Wades PER and production has lowered throughout the years and it can be questioned how he will be as a #1 option. Also Wade is going against Arron Afflalo on the defensive end who is a very good defender. Just last year Wade said that Afflalo was the toughest defender. "I respect a guy like Arron Afflalo from Denver. I respect him for not only what he does shooting the ball, but for what he brings to the game defensively. He's a tough guy, so he makes me bring my 'A' game. I'm going to focus my game."

Wade also will be going against Afflalo and Harden on the Defensive end. Both guys will make him work a ton on that end. In the matchup versus the Celtics Wade will have no pass against them and spend alot of energy on that side.

#2 Option Harden vs Granger
This is also another very good battle. James Harden has very quickly become a top player in this league and still has room to get better. Granger is an excellent SF as well. Both of these guys have proven that they are capable to put up 18-20 ppg without a problem. The difference in this match is who is getting the ball to these guys and the scoring opportunities set up for them. Deron Williams is one of the best distributors in all of basketball avg almost 10 assists a game in his career while Curry has averaged around 5.5. Granger for his career has shot 44% from the field and 38% , identical to James Harden. So these players are on the same level when it comes to scoring. Making this match up come down to PG play and how often these guys get a chance to score. Which the Celtics clearly have the advantage at. Because of this we believe we have a more viable second option.

#3 Option Milsap vs Smith
This is another very good match-up in this series as Smith and Milsap are both great PF in the NBA. Milsap avg 16.6 PPG 8.8 rpg .8blkpg with a .495 FG%. These are great numbers for the young power forward and there is no reason to believe why he cant score more with Deron Williams now dishing the ball to him and Running the P&R. Again this is another match up that comes down to PG play because it will be very difficult for Smith to consistently create his own shot. This might hurt Smiths scoring numbers causing him to lose his ability to be a legit scoring option. There for we believe we have the more viable 3rd option as well.

Now overall we believe the Boston Celtics have the better bench led by Hinrich, Afflalo and Arthur. All of these guys are good enough to start on most teams. Both of these teams have a ton of talent but we believe that it all comes down to the play of our PG and the ability to distribute the ball to our guys. What the pacers needed was a pass first PG to help distribute the scoring. This will be there downfall as the Celtics have that and are in position to knock off the number 1 seeded Pacers.

Williams/Hirnich
Harden/Afflalo
Dudley/Green
Milsap/Arthur/Green
Gortat/Arthur/Melo

IndyHeatjman
08-21-2012, 05:31 AM
Yay Pacers! Whoa!

KnicksorBust
08-21-2012, 08:09 AM
Tough.

My initial thought has been Pacers are a lock to make the Finals (and my prediction is the vote will probably still be lopsided in their favor but...) however the Celtics matchup perfectly with them. Deron Williams can manhandle Steph Curry (yes I saw the 5 h2h matchups and don't care). He can have his way with him. Just look at what he used to do to Chris Paul who is miles better than Curry will ever be. Millsap has a nice advantage vs. the overrated Josh Smith. Gortat is one of the best centers to matchup with Hibbert. He can body him in the post and offensively he's a great PnR player. He and Deron should be able to absolutely abuse Curry-Hibbert with pick and rolls.

The problem is what James Harden will be getting in this series? Dudley will do a respectable job on Granger but I don't know if we can trust Harden after what we saw in the Finals.

The other issue is that the Pacers writeup is so much cleaner/better than the Celtics writeup. The Celtics writeup (if anything) made me feel like the Pacers were better again. Wade > Deron, Granger > Harden and Curry/Smith > Millsap/Dudley.

xxplayerxx23
08-21-2012, 10:37 AM
This is so much closer then I first thought. I love D-will and Gortat. Gortat can be effictive with a good PG and Deron is considered a top 1-3 PG. Milsap can handle his own. Wade is on the downside a little should be close. Pacers are great so its tough. Ill hold off on voting Im leaning towards the Pacers but its a lot closer then I thought.

unleashthebeast
08-21-2012, 11:20 AM
Wow I didn't realize that the Celtics had such a good team. This is going to be a lot closer than what I originally thought.

Ill21
08-21-2012, 11:36 AM
Celtics>Pacers :D

NYKalltheway
08-21-2012, 12:38 PM
neither team has enough depth but have stacked starting lineups. I went with Boston as I think this is the time where Pacers will feel the "there's only one ball" effect. Boston has slightly better bench imo but that depends on what positions you view as more important with your backups.

JOhnnyTHaJet
08-21-2012, 12:46 PM
Comes down to bench for me. Afflalo, Green, and Hinrich > Chalmers, Bass, and Bellinelli

Sadds The Gr8
08-21-2012, 01:21 PM
I think the Celtics were a trade away from being runaway favourites but they still have great depth.

DR_1
08-21-2012, 01:47 PM
Celtics in 7. I can deal with Dudley having to start since they have Afflalo coming off the bench.

greg_ory_2005
08-21-2012, 01:58 PM
Woah how did the Pacers get so good?!

PocketKings
08-21-2012, 02:07 PM
A few things:
First point,
In an 8-game sample when Wade has gone up against Afflalo:
Wade: 37.5 MPG | 25.6 PPG | 4.9 RPG | 6.5 APG
Afflalo: 20.3 MPG | 10.1 PPG | 2.9 RPG | 1.4 APG

Afflalo isn't going to limit Wade either.

Here's another angle to think about it with. If Afflalo is playing major minutes to help "defend" Wade, where will Harden's minutes go?

They have a quality player in Afflalo but the fact is he plays directly in rotation with their #2 option Harden. There are only 48 minutes to split at that position and if you are going to maximize your #2 option and your 2nd best player it'd probably be ideal to have him on the floor with a greater proportion of minutes.

Even than, everyone saw how James Harden COMPLETELY CRUMBLED under the pressure and just was abused by Dwyane Wade.

Either situation for the Celtics is not ideal.

Second point,
their depth is better than the Pacers? How so? Afflalo is better than Belinelli, no doubt about that. But keep in mind the Pacers boast 2 players who were critical ROLE players for their respected teams in Chalmers and Bass. Chalmers may not have the consistency some want for him to have, but his calming presence and his ability to shoot the three ball with efficiency as well as an already in place chemistry with Wade allows the Curry/Chalmers duo at PG we have to be very effective.

KIRK HINRICH at this stage of his career is not better than Mario Chalmers.

Darrell Arthur is a nice, young talent, but what has he done in the league thus far? Want to know what Brandon Bass has done? He's been a key contributor the past two years on playoff teams.

Brandon Bass is easily better than Arthur.

Jeff Green when healthy is easily better than Matt Barnes, but after a heart condition how much of an impact can this guy really have in his first year back in the league? I won't even try to cover it up in any way that he isn't a good player but he is.

But if we are being fair in assessing the benches, the Pacers have 2 advantages in Chalmers / Bass. The Celtics have 2 advantages in Afflalo/Green. We have the Center advantage because Turiaf is better than Fab Melo.

When comparing benches the Pacers have a better bench. Considering as well as Chalmers is the ideal compliment to Curry in a PG rotation with Wade and that Bass gives us the frontcourt flexibility to play different line-ups.

Playing "small-ball" with the Pacers is not a smart thing to do. That gives us an even bigger edge with line-ups.

That's also the beauty of the Pacers, the ability with the talent and cast to play a line-up suited for ideally any style of play.

Mr. Baller
08-21-2012, 02:21 PM
Pacers are too much.

Mr. Baller
08-21-2012, 02:21 PM
Woah how did the Pacers get so good?!

They weren't that dominant until they completely raped the Hawks for Smith. It was Faried and George Hill for Josh Smith.

PocketKings
08-21-2012, 02:26 PM
Hawks went rebuild mode. :shrug:

nyanks79
08-21-2012, 02:35 PM
A few things:

First point,
In an 8-game sample when Wade has gone up against Afflalo:
Wade: 37.5 MPG | 25.6 PPG | 4.9 RPG | 6.5 APG
Afflalo: 20.3 MPG | 10.1 PPG | 2.9 RPG | 1.4 APG

Afflalo isn't going to limit Wade either.

Here's another angle to think about it with. If Afflalo is playing major minutes to help "defend" Wade, where will Harden's minutes go?

They have a quality player in Afflalo but the fact is he plays directly in rotation with their #2 option Harden. There are only 48 minutes to split at that position and if you are going to maximize your #2 option and your 2nd best player it'd probably be ideal to have him on the floor with a greater proportion of minutes.

Cool 8 game sample. Plus your using games when Afflalo was still on the Pacers. 2 of the games he played 11 and 12 minutes. Those numbers are meaningless. Afflalo is a good defender and one who would give Wade trouble.

And what does Thabo not play at all? Afflalo and Harden could easily both get good minutes. Plus I have no problem putting either of them on Granger. They could be on the floor at the same time. OKC was better when they went smaller.


Even than, everyone saw how James Harden COMPLETELY CRUMBLED under the pressure and just was abused by Dwyane Wade.

Cool words.


Second point,
their depth is better than the Pacers? How so? Afflalo is better than Belinelli, no doubt about that. But keep in mind the Pacers boast 2 players who were critical ROLE players for their respected teams in Chalmers and Bass. Chalmers may not have the consistency some want for him to have, but his calming presence and his ability to shoot the three ball with efficiency as well as an already in place chemistry with Wade allows the Curry/Chalmers duo at PG we have to be very effective.

KIRK HINRICH at this stage of his career is not better than Mario Chalmers.

Hinrich had a down year. No denying that. But there is little to know gap. Thats not forget what team each player was on. Hinrich is still superior defensively. Still shot 35% from 3. They both would be playing a similar role on each of our teams. Please dont try to make it like the gap between them is anywhere close to the gap between Afflalo and Bellinelli and Green and Barnes.


Darrell Arthur is a nice, young talent, but what has he done in the league thus far? Want to know what Brandon Bass has done? He's been a key contributor the past two years on playoff teams.

Brandon Bass is easily better than Arthur.

Not a suprise that you know nothing about Arthur. When healthy a year ago he was one of the best big man defenders out there. About as versatile as there is. Switches on to smaller players. Key to Memphis bench. Hollingers pick for most improved. Griz allowed 5.7 fewer points per 100 possessions when Arthur checked in the game.

Bass is better offensively, defensively its Arthur by a lot.


Jeff Green when healthy is easily better than Matt Barnes, but after a heart condition how much of an impact can this guy really have in his first year back in the league? I won't even try to cover it up in any way that he isn't a good player but he is.

But if we are being fair in assessing the benches, the Pacers have 2 advantages in Chalmers / Bass. The Celtics have 2 advantages in Afflalo/Green. We have the Center advantage because Turiaf is better than Fab Melo.

When comparing benches the Pacers have a better bench. Considering as well as Chalmers is the ideal compliment to Curry in a PG rotation with Wade and that Bass gives us the frontcourt flexibility to play different line-ups.

Playing "small-ball" with the Pacers is not a smart thing to do. That gives us an even bigger edge with line-ups.

That's also the beauty of the Pacers, the ability with the talent and cast to play a line-up suited for ideally any style of play.

Our bench is a lot more solid all around. The gaps between our advanatage are alot bigger. Saying you have more of a talent to go big or small over the Celtics is a joke. We simply have more versatility and depth.

nyanks79
08-21-2012, 02:38 PM
Sorry I suck at quoting.

Correct me if Im wrong but Pacers got 3 illegal, Celtics 0?

roshan3ai
08-21-2012, 02:43 PM
Unless you have Arthur playing 32 minutes a game, there's a huge gap at backup center. Fab Melo has shown nothing for me to believe that he's a formidable backup Center. Bass and Chalmers both were starters on the ECF squads, and were very important to their team's success. Bellinelli averaged 30 MPG this year, given it was on a bad team, but he showed sharpshooting ability from deep and is a very good fill in for Wade. As for Barnes, he played almost half the game in LA. He's a very gritty defender and can hit the occassional 3. And Turiaf won't be getting a great deal of minutes with a main 3 man rotation of Bass-Smith-Hibbert, and even if he does, I trust him to play 10 minutes, unlike you guys with Fab Melo. If one of Gortat/Millsap get in foul trouble, then Arthur is going to be playing heavy heavy minutes, and in that case we have the advantage.

roshan3ai
08-21-2012, 02:44 PM
Sorry I suck at quoting.

Correct me if Im wrong but Pacers got 3 illegal, Celtics 0?

Yepp, and we dodged one. Some guy who voted for us has 101 posts haha.

The_Jamal
08-21-2012, 02:46 PM
I'd gladly trust a totally unproven Fab Melo over Ronny Turiaf

nyanks79
08-21-2012, 02:52 PM
Unless you have Arthur playing 32 minutes a game, there's a huge gap at backup center. Fab Melo has shown nothing for me to believe that he's a formidable backup Center. Bass and Chalmers both were starters on the ECF squads, and were very important to their team's success. Bellinelli averaged 30 MPG this year, given it was on a bad team, but he showed sharpshooting ability from deep and is a very good fill in for Wade. As for Barnes, he played almost half the game in LA. He's a very gritty defender and can hit the occassional 3. And Turiaf won't be getting a great deal of minutes with a main 3 man rotation of Bass-Smith-Hibbert, and even if he does, I trust him to play 10 minutes, unlike you guys with Fab Melo. If one of Gortat/Millsap get in foul trouble, then Arthur is going to be playing heavy heavy minutes, and in that case we have the advantage.

Anyone can go against Turiaf though. Hes no threat offensively. I have no problem putting Milsap at C there and Green at PF at times when Turiaf is in. Turiaf shouldnt have much value here.

PocketKings
08-21-2012, 02:52 PM
There is a HUGE key difference in having Harden/Afflalo and Thabo/Harden.
1) It provides them a rotational balance to their line-up. Allowing them to have balance between their first and second units.
2) Harden for your team is your 2nd option offensively. His role is much different for your team than the Thunder team.

Here's another angle to look at:
Afflalo via synergy defensively:
Overall - 0.98 PPP - 422nd overall
Iso - 0.86 PPP - 218th overall
Spot-Up - 1.13 PPP - 344th overall

I could list more if you like.

Oh and the "small sample size" if we want to look at how they fared against each other just this past season Wade still averaged 20 ppg while Afflalo averaged 7 ppg.

You are vastly overrating Darrell Arthur if you think he is better than Brandon Bass. Period. I know damn well who Arthur is as well as he came from Kansas and if I could prove it to you I was a huge fan of Arthur back in his Kansas days and his career has been slightly disappointing because I always thought he was going to be a better player than he has yet to turn out to be.

Bass's defensive numbers via synergy:
Overall: 0.69 PPP - 16th overall
Iso: 0.58 PPP - 14th overall
Post-up: 0.56 PPP - 7th overall
P&R Roll Man: 0.58 - 2nd overall
Spot-Up: 0.82 - 66th overall.

I don't believe Synergy is bible but I think Synergy can be used along with other ways to evaluate talent.

Once again, Brandon Bass may not be as good as those numbers indicate because of the KG effect but once again I don't see how those numbers could be that good without him being a factor in it as well as those numbers from a defensive standpoint our outrageously good.

Two of your key bench players didn't play at all last year in Jeff Green and Darrell Arthur. Both are coming back form very serious injury. I'm not even using the whole "injury prone, etc." argument because we are to assume all players are healthy and which I do, but we also have to be realistic about them being healthy.

If they are coming off a serious injury ala a TORN ACHILLES which Arthur is coming off of. It severely limits you throughout the first year back from the injury. That isn't just words. That's fact. Players typically take a whole year to get back to form with an injury like that. It isn't like a nagging injury where players may miss time, but it effects them mentally and physically in a way that they aren't the same player right away.

Jeff Green is coming off a heart issue. Who knows in what type of quandary he can even come back.

So yes, my small ball unit is superior and my bench has a slight edge over your team.

PocketKings
08-21-2012, 02:53 PM
It won't be Ronny Turiaf playing minutes at back-up Center though. It'll be Josh Smith which he has proven he can be quite EFFECTIVE at. Considering he did play about 1/3rd of his minutes this year at Center.

PocketKings
08-21-2012, 02:54 PM
Nyanks, I hate you for how you quoted me as well. SMH!

We'll have to teach you to do better in quoting next time bud. lol.

The_Jamal
08-21-2012, 03:04 PM
A few thoughts:

I feel the Celtics have the better set of bigs in this match-up. Gortat/Milsap is an absolutely a beautiful offensive/defensive combination and would be absolutely incredibly to see run with one of the best PnR player with Deron Williams. I just don't trust Smith or Hibbert to consistently get it done on the offensive end against 2 excellent defensive players in Gortat/Milsap.

- The Granger/Dudley match-up and the Deron/Curry match-up is a wash in my opinion. Deron would absolutely abuse Curry and Granger would absolutely abuse Dudley.

- The Pacers might run into trouble with offensive cohesion in this match-up. Up to this point, they've been able to out-talent every team with considerable ease. Now, they're facing an absolutely beautifully constructed offensive team with enough defenders to make it a series. Wade/Granger/Josh Smith are all used to having 15+ shots a game while Curry and Hibbert are certainly used more on the offensive end than they will be on this squad.

- I like the Celtics bench more in this series as well. Hinrich/Afflalo/Arthur/Jeff Green is great depth and fills key roles for the Celtics. Outside of Chalmers and Bass, the Celtics really don't have much to turn to that I would depend on in a playoff series. Since we assume everyone is healthy, I give them the bench advantage.

- Wade is certainly the better player over Harden, but for how much longer? Harden will have another year of exp while Wade will be a year older after already seeing a decline in his play this past season. Especially with the ability to turn to Afflalo, Wade will have his hands full with 48 minutes of excellent SG play to deal with. I could see Harden having 2 or 3 really big games against Wade in this series

I'll wait a bit longer to vote and hear some more arguments, but I'm currently leading Celtics at this point. This really is a great match-up of talent VS cohesion

nyanks79
08-21-2012, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE]There is a HUGE key difference in having Harden/Afflalo and Thabo/Harden.
1) It provides them a rotational balance to their line-up. Allowing them to have balance between their first and second units.
2) Harden for your team is your 2nd option offensively. His role is much different for your team than the Thunder team.


Why wouldnt it be the same here too though? Harden may be labeled as the "2nd option" but I think on the Celtics he would have a similar role and even shoulder less of the weight. Gortat, Mislap, Dudley allows him to have more pressure and still allows him to play his ultra efficient game.


Here's another angle to look at:
Afflalo via synergy defensively:
Overall - 0.98 PPP - 422nd overall
Iso - 0.86 PPP - 218th overall
Spot-Up - 1.13 PPP - 344th overall

I could list more if you like.

I like Synergy and Im not opposed to it and some of those number suprise me. But like anything, theres more that goes into that raw numbers. Especially with how team oriented defenses are. I think almost anyone around the league would say Afflalo is a good defender.


Oh and the "small sample size" if we want to look at how they fared against each other just this past season Wade still averaged 20 ppg while Afflalo averaged 7 ppg.

That would be an even smaller sample size. But if Wade gets held to 20 points a game in this series I love the Celtics chances. So if we would like to say Wade is at 20 in this series then Im fine. Thats limiting Wade for me.


You are vastly overrating Darrell Arthur if you think he is better than Brandon Bass. Period. I know damn well who Arthur is as well as he came from Kansas and if I could prove it to you I was a huge fan of Arthur back in his Kansas days and his career has been slightly disappointing because I always thought he was going to be a better player than he has yet to turn out to be.

You can say what youd like but I think anyone who payed attention to Arthur realized how impressive he was.


Bass's defensive numbers via synergy:
Overall: 0.69 PPP - 16th overall
Iso: 0.58 PPP - 14th overall
Post-up: 0.56 PPP - 7th overall
P&R Roll Man: 0.58 - 2nd overall
Spot-Up: 0.82 - 66th overall.

I don't believe Synergy is bible but I think Synergy can be used along with other ways to evaluate talent.

Once again, Brandon Bass may not be as good as those numbers indicate because of the KG effect but once again I don't see how those numbers could be that good without him being a factor in it as well as those numbers from a defensive standpoint our outrageously good.

Two of your key bench players didn't play at all last year in Jeff Green and Darrell Arthur. Both are coming back form very serious injury. I'm not even using the whole "injury prone, etc." argument because we are to assume all players are healthy and which I do, but we also have to be realistic about them being healthy.

If they are coming off a serious injury ala a TORN ACHILLES which Arthur is coming off of. It severely limits you throughout the first year back from the injury. That isn't just words. That's fact. Players typically take a whole year to get back to form with an injury like that. It isn't like a nagging injury where players may miss time, but it effects them mentally and physically in a way that they aren't the same player right away.

Jeff Green is coming off a heart issue. Who knows in what type of quandary he can even come back.

I mean theres nothing to say here. If people are going to value them being out, then thats what there gonna do. They were hurt but both are ready to play next season.


So yes, my small ball unit is superior and my bench has a slight edge over your team.


Your opinion. Completely fail to see how you think your versatility is better when Green had played PF a ton in his career. And Ill take my depth just like a others in this thread have said.

rapjuicer06
08-21-2012, 03:23 PM
I went with the Pacers. I think Harden is very overrated. I love Afflalo though :) . Pacers just have a bit more talented players that actually mesh together very, very well.

Ill21
08-21-2012, 04:06 PM
Well game over, people saw the big names an that's where the votes went. :facepalm:

xxplayerxx23
08-21-2012, 05:38 PM
Wow 31-13. I think this series would go 6, But I decided to vote Pacers. The Pacers have the better starting 5 I don't believe the bench would play that much of a factor in this series.

KnicksorBust
08-21-2012, 05:46 PM
Well game over, people saw the big names an that's where the votes went. :facepalm:

What a cop out. Their writeup was better and PK is destroying you even more in the thread. My post and Jamal's posts were the best piece of persuasive writing in favor of the Celtics here but it's not enough.

Pacers.

juggla53
08-21-2012, 05:55 PM
Well game over, people saw the big names an that's where the votes went. :facepalm:

every team that loses in these games says the exact same thing, the pacers are just better ever think of that?

xxplayerxx23
08-21-2012, 07:26 PM
8-24-12. :sigh: that seems like it will take forever to get to.

Corey
08-22-2012, 01:59 AM
Well game over, people saw the big names an that's where the votes went. :facepalm:

Is that really how you're going to play it?

If you wanted any chance at winning this matchup, you would have put more than 3-5 minutes into your writeup.

aussie
08-22-2012, 12:59 PM
It all started with the Hawks when i convinced them to trade Horford for Budinger and Joe Johnson to Sixers for Leonard then Pacers swooped in and took SMoove

Eagles4Lyfe
08-22-2012, 03:03 PM
haha yaa that was jokes, I still don't know how you pulled it out

Ebbs
08-22-2012, 07:00 PM
Quite honestly I wonder if Wade could carry an offense anymore. In Miami if Wade was handling the ball it was usually a crappy possesion.

The Pacers team is flashier and more PSD friendly than the Celtics but there is no way 4 shoot first options in Wade, Granger, Smith, and Curry all co exist.

Though the Pacers got better value trading faried for smoove, I think it would have made a big difference on the court chemistry.

The Pacers are a tad more talented and a little deeper. I don't really trust the Celtics reserve bigs.

ehh. . . tough

nyanks79
08-24-2012, 01:01 PM
Congrats Pacers.

If you didnt pull that Smith trade off I think we would have had a real good shot at you, but good job getting it done.

Ebbs
08-24-2012, 01:43 PM
Honestly Hawks GM's did one of the all time worst jobs I've ever seen

Corey
08-24-2012, 02:39 PM
Honestly Hawks GM's did one of the all time worst jobs I've ever seenAgreed.

H2r09 is in the clear now, lol.

RealLiveBear
08-24-2012, 02:44 PM
How the Celtics gonna start Dudley over Green?

Corey
08-24-2012, 02:47 PM
Dudley is a proven defender and knockdown shooter.

Green didn't play last year.

No issue from me.