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View Full Version : Why is Kobe one of if not the most disrespected NBA superstar of all-time



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kjoke
08-20-2012, 11:27 AM
and its against the Miami Heat, will he forever be considered better than Lebron?

310Casper
08-20-2012, 11:28 AM
he already is.

but this would put this nail in the coffin.

D12 fan
08-20-2012, 11:28 AM
lol yes.

BobbyHillSwag
08-20-2012, 11:30 AM
Lol he doesnt have to, to be considered better than lebron. He already is.

Green Storm
08-20-2012, 11:35 AM
OP must be 6 years old.

xxplayerxx23
08-20-2012, 11:36 AM
No way/

xxplayerxx23
08-20-2012, 11:40 AM
I can't believe the threads people make on here.

lakersiznumber1
08-20-2012, 11:41 AM
kobe is already the goat. The best player since mj left

LongIslandIcedZ
08-20-2012, 11:42 AM
No lol, Lebron will finish his career as a better player than Kobe.

xxplayerxx23
08-20-2012, 11:44 AM
KObe might not even be the best player in the 2000s-Present ^

juster1028
08-20-2012, 11:44 AM
justinnum were u at I see u viewing the thread

D12 fan
08-20-2012, 11:45 AM
justinnum were u at I see u viewing the thread

lol,he trying to think of a good troll post.

xxplayerxx23
08-20-2012, 11:47 AM
D12 are your really talking about a person that trolls when you non-stop troll and Kobe won't be better then Lebron?

D12 fan
08-20-2012, 11:49 AM
D12 are your really talking about a person that trolls when you non-stop troll and Kobe won't be better then Lebron?

No I don't troll,im just a bandwagon fan.

BobbyHillSwag
08-20-2012, 11:50 AM
Kobe is not better than lebron now, but I dont think Lebron will finish his career as a better player.

Longhornfan1234
08-20-2012, 11:50 AM
No...because he's not going to win as the man. LeBron is the better individual player. He just needs to win 3 rings as the man to pass Kobe on the all-time list....IMO.

dnewguy
08-20-2012, 11:51 AM
If Lebron had the team Kobe had last year, he will win multiple championships. I have never seen any super-star in NBA history that is constantly surrounded by all star players throughout his career. Lets just call Kobe the most fortunate player with championships in NBA history. Watch his finals stats, he is never the most efficient/reliable player on his team. You can't say that about Bron. Can Kobe lead his team in points/Rebounds/Assists in a single game in the play-offs? Nope...he always need someone else doing those things while getting all the glory.

juster1028
08-20-2012, 11:54 AM
No I don't troll,im just a bandwagon fan.

real talk :9/11:

BobbyHillSwag
08-20-2012, 11:55 AM
If Lebron had the team Kobe had last year, he will win multiple championships. I have never seen any super-star in NBA history that is constantly surrounded by all star players throughout his career. Lets just call Kobe the most fortunate player with championships in NBA history. Watch his finals stats, he is never the most efficient/reliable player on his team. You can't say that about Bron. Can Kobe lead his team in points/Rebounds/Assists in a single game in the play-offs? Nope...he always need someone else doing those things while getting all the glory.

doubt it, that laker team had no spacing whatsoever. lebron wouldnt do **** with that team either. they maybe win 1 or 2 more games against thunder and beat the nuggets way easier.

RapOZo
08-20-2012, 11:55 AM
lebron is a better overall player, putting another ring on kobe, even if he wins it against lebron, won't making "better" but it will just give the trash talkers foundation to just talk more.
is not even fair at this point to compare them, lebron is at his prime, and kobe way pass it.
kobe's era of dominance is gone 2001-10
2010>~ belongs to lebron/durant maybe rose

dnewguy
08-20-2012, 11:58 AM
doubt it, that laker team had no spacing whatsoever. lebron wouldnt do **** with that team either. they maybe win 1 or 2 more games against thunder and beat the nuggets way easier.

How ill you have spacing when your "best" player never passes the ball?

RapOZo
08-20-2012, 11:59 AM
If Lebron had the team Kobe had last year, he will win multiple championships. I have never seen any super-star in NBA history that is constantly surrounded by all star players throughout his career. Lets just call Kobe the most fortunate player with championships in NBA history. Watch his finals stats, he is never the most efficient/reliable player on his team. You can't say that about Bron. Can Kobe lead his team in points/Rebounds/Assists in a single game in the play-offs? Nope...he always need someone else doing those things while getting all the glory.

if kobe had the team lebron had last year he will win 5 more
stfu dude, you gorgot about kwame brown and smush parker?? lakers had about 4 years of lamar being the only good player next to kobe

Da Knicks
08-20-2012, 12:00 PM
Lebron is a better player right now and Kobe is passed his prime with a loaded team. Kobe will retire the better player unless Lebron teams up with someone else I see Wade just declining and making the Heat the cavaliers all over again...

dnewguy
08-20-2012, 12:01 PM
lebron is a better overall player, putting another ring on kobe, even if he wins it against lebron, won't making "better" but it will just give the trash talkers foundation to just talk more.
is not even fair at this point to compare them, lebron is at his prime, and kobe way pass it.
kobe's era of dominance is gone 2001-10
2010>~ belongs to lebron/durant maybe rose

I agree with many of what you said but Kobe never dominated anything. Early 00's belonged to Shaq and mid 00's belonged to Duncan and Leron took it from there. Kobe is a lucky Iverson; besides shooting 30 times, what else is Kobe good at?

Aust
08-20-2012, 12:02 PM
No, just like winning 7 rings wouldn't automatically put him past Jordan.

BobbyHillSwag
08-20-2012, 12:03 PM
I agree with many of what you said but Kobe never dominated anything. Early 00's belonged to Shaq and mid 00's belonged to Duncan and Leron took it from there. Kobe is a lucky Iverson; besides shooting 30 times, what else is Kobe good at?

iverson was better than kobe until 2002

dnewguy
08-20-2012, 12:03 PM
if kobe had the team lebron had last year he will win 5 more
stfu dude, you gorgot about kwame brown and smush parker?? lakers had about 4 years of lamar being the only good player next to kobe

If Kobe had the Heat team Lebron had last year, they will be lucky to have 1 championship. You forgot that even with that team, Lebron had to grab rebounds/play pg and also control the tempo? Kobe can't do any of those.

still1ballin
08-20-2012, 12:06 PM
U mad?

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 12:07 PM
and its against the Miami Heat, will he forever be considered better than Lebron?

If he is the main reason why they beat miami then To answer your question **** yes!!

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 12:08 PM
No lol, Lebron will finish his career as a better player than Kobe.

How because of stats? Lol championship count just as much when your a star player(leader of your team) if he has the stats but not the championships he'll never be considered better then kobe

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 12:10 PM
If Lebron had the team Kobe had last year, he will win multiple championships. I have never seen any super-star in NBA history that is constantly surrounded by all star players throughout his career. Lets just call Kobe the most fortunate player with championships in NBA history. Watch his finals stats, he is never the most efficient/reliable player on his team. You can't say that about Bron. Can Kobe lead his team in points/Rebounds/Assists in a single game in the play-offs? Nope...he always need someone else doing those things while getting all the glory.


Did you forget Lebron went missing in the 4th quarters of the Dallas series last year? Lol get of brons nuts

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 12:10 PM
How because of stats? Lol championship count just as much when your a star player(leader of your team) if he has the stats but not the championships he'll never be considered better then kobe

kobe has 2 championship as the leader of the team...

Lebron will be there after next year


get off kobe's nuts

Knick_Fever
08-20-2012, 12:11 PM
If Lebron had the team Kobe had last year, he will win multiple championships. I have never seen any super-star in NBA history that is constantly surrounded by all star players throughout his career. Lets just call Kobe the most fortunate player with championships in NBA history. Watch his finals stats, he is never the most efficient/reliable player on his team. You can't say that about Bron. Can Kobe lead his team in points/Rebounds/Assists in a single game in the play-offs? Nope...he always need someone else doing those things while getting all the glory.

The fact that you're not wrong doesnt change the reality that Kobe has 5 rings, and about to get another one. Ive always said that if you pair Howard with one other superstar, that would ultimately get the magic over the hump. But I never thought he would be teamed with 3 superstars. Im sorry but as great as Lebron and Miami are, not even they could stop the new look Lakers.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 12:11 PM
lebron is a better overall player, putting another ring on kobe, even if he wins it against lebron, won't making "better" but it will just give the trash talkers foundation to just talk more.
is not even fair at this point to compare them, lebron is at his prime, and kobe way pass it.
kobe's era of dominance is gone 2001-10
2010>~ belongs to lebron/durant maybe rose
He's talking about when both of their careers are finished! Kobe will be better then Lebron for ever and all eternity if he beats him in the finals

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 12:12 PM
The fact that you're not wrong doesnt change the reality that Kobe has 5 rings, and about to get another one. Ive always said that if you pair Howard with one other superstar, that would ultimately get the magic over the edge. But I never thought he would be teamed with 3 superstars. Im sorry but as great as Lebron and Miami are, not even they could stop the new look Lakers.

:facepalm: at you saying gasol and nash are superstars

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 12:14 PM
I agree with many of what you said but Kobe never dominated anything. Early 00's belonged to Shaq and mid 00's belonged to Duncan and Leron took it from there. Kobe is a lucky Iverson; besides shooting 30 times, what else is Kobe good at?



Lol
Kobe was the best player in basketball from like 2003-2010 maybe not the most valuable(he probably was though) everyone said it including shaq,magic,Jordan,bird and all the media! But obviously now it's lebron

And Kobe a lucky iverson smh

Knick_Fever
08-20-2012, 12:15 PM
Ok... sorry... stars then. Happy? If someone you knew were to bet you $500 that the Lakers would beat the Heat in the finals, would you do it? (Not that Im actually trying to bet here)

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 12:16 PM
Lol
Kobe was the best player in basketball from like 2003-2010 maybe not the most valuable(he probably was though) everyone said it including shaq,magic,Jordan,bird and all the media! But obviously now it's lebron

And Kobe a lucky iverson smh
No he wasn't. maybe from 2003-2005.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 12:17 PM
kobe has 2 championship as the leader of the team...

Lebron will be there after next year


get off kobe's nuts



5 championships baby stop trying to knock Kobe off for not being finals MVP, you probably forgot that Kobe dominated the western conference and that if it wasn't for him those years the lakers probably don't even make the finals. And nobody's on Kobe's nuts but I have to defend my favorite player on my favorite team when idiots like some of you heat fans talk dumb and illogical non-sense, just like this post he has 2 championships like really he has 5 last time I checked and he was one of the biggest reason why they won those championships

yanksrock
08-20-2012, 12:17 PM
No.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 12:20 PM
No he wasn't. maybe from 2003-2005.

Lol who was then after 05! Don't say Lebron please hahaha

Seriously heat fans are such homers Kobe was considered the best up until 2009-2010 man give it up it's just the truth,face it but hey atleast Lebron is the best now, but it took Kobe getting old for him to be considered the best lol

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 12:21 PM
Lol who was then after 05! Don't say Lebron please hahaha

Seriously heat fans are such homers Kobe was considered the best up until 2009-2010 man give it up it's just the truth,face it but hey atleast Lebron is the best now, but it took Kobe getting old for him to be considered the best lol

wade was then lebron

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 12:22 PM
5 championships baby stop trying to knock Kobe off for not being finals MVP, you probably forgot that Kobe dominated the western conference and that if it wasn't for him those years the lakers probably don't even make the finals. And nobody's on Kobe's nuts but I have to defend my favorite player on my favorite team when idiots like some of you heat fans talk dumb and illogical non-sense, just like this post he has 2 championships like really he has 5 last time I checked and he was one of the biggest reason why they won those championships

only 2 finals mvps. lebron will finish with more finals mvps than kobe.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 12:31 PM
wade was then lebron

:facepalm:

TheNumber37
08-20-2012, 12:32 PM
Kobe will always be better than LeBron

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 12:32 PM
only 2 finals mvps. lebron will finish with more finals mvps than kobe.

We'll see about that especially in these next few years when/if Kobe gets 1-2 maybe even 3 rings and gets atleast 2 finals Mvps while Lebron will start declining, I'm my saying he doesn't have a chance of passing kobe in finals mvps but I find it unlikely...

Stinkyoutsider
08-20-2012, 12:34 PM
That's a tough question because both players are at different places in their career. I would like to see where Lebron is at once he reaches his 30s. Kobe has won more but Lebron has some years in his prime left while Kobe is on the back side of his career.

It's also a tough debate because each player's game is so different. Kobe is a scorer first and Lebron is a distributor first. Sounds like seeing if Jordan or Magic are better between each other? Kobe plays the game like Jordan and Lebron plays the game like Magic...

BobbyHillSwag
08-20-2012, 12:35 PM
wade was then lebron

LOL wade was never even close to the best player in the league :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Gagan136
08-20-2012, 12:38 PM
wade was then lebron

You did it for the llullz didn't you

Tmath
08-20-2012, 12:47 PM
I don't factor championships when it comes to ranking players.

Lebron is the better all around player but Kobe was very good at what he did.

Toastyy
08-20-2012, 12:52 PM
Your sentence doesn't make sense, by "if" you must have meant "when"

JordansBulls
08-20-2012, 12:54 PM
That's a tough question because both players are at different places in their career. I would like to see where Lebron is at once he reaches his 30s. Kobe has won more but Lebron has some years in his prime left while Kobe is on the back side of his career.

It's also a tough debate because each player's game is so different. Kobe is a scorer first and Lebron is a distributor first. Sounds like seeing if Jordan or Magic are better between each other? Kobe plays the game like Jordan and Lebron plays the game like Magic...

Not really.

Sactown
08-20-2012, 12:55 PM
No.. If LA wins a ring, Kobe was just along for the ride.. Dwight and Pau would be carrying much more of the load than Kobe.. this team is going to win in the post, not the perimeter and it wouldn't change my judgement of Kobe at all, which means if LA loses it wouldn't affect him negatively either, just Dwight.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 12:59 PM
Not really.

Lol so Kobe doesn't play like Jordan and Lebron like magic? Smh JB

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 01:00 PM
No.. If LA wins a ring, Kobe was just along for the ride.. Dwight and Pau would be carrying much more of the load than Kobe.. this team is going to win in the post, not the perimeter and it wouldn't change my judgement of Kobe at all, which means if LA loses it wouldn't affect him negatively either, just Dwight.

Kobe going along for the ride is the stupidest thing someone could say

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 01:02 PM
wade was then lebron

Take a look at this http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=389710&page=7 it was in 2009 when people were barely starting to call Lebron the best but even then Kobe got the majority of the votes

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 01:05 PM
:facepalm: at you saying gasol and nash are superstars

Nash Is still an Elite PG... If Nash had a better team/better record last year he definitely would have received more recognition and most likely STILL be considered a superstar


wade was then lebron

I didint know having a great finals performance makes you the best player in the NBA... Does that mean Nowitzki > Lebron than just because Mavs one in 2011?

StinkEye
08-20-2012, 01:16 PM
context

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 01:17 PM
LOL wade was never even close to the best player in the league.
Wade was the best or 2nd best in 06, 09, 10 and 11.

Lebron/Wade > Kobe since 09.
That is not debatable.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2012, 01:18 PM
If LeBron quit today, Kobe would hold the all time ranking over him anyways. I really don't care to answer this question, because it depends entirely on how its done. Furthermor, LeBron is in his peak, so he still has much of his legacy/ranking to handle, where Kobe's is basically settled in stone for me. He isn't moving up from #8 for me, he can only move down as other players jump him.

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 01:22 PM
Lebron is having a better playoff career then Kobe in terms of production, performances, consistency and impact.

Kobe may end up with more team success but that is because he had / will have far better career circumstances, supporting casts and luck and not because he is the better player.

I feel it is pretty much set in stone already that Lebron will surpass Kobe but it may take 3-5 more years and obviously Lebron has to stay healthy and continue his current level of play to do it.

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 01:29 PM
Lebron is having a better playoff career then Kobe in terms of production, performances, consistency and impact.

Kobe may end up with more team success but that is because he had / will have far better career circumstances, supporting casts and luck and not because he is the better player.

I feel it is pretty much set in stone already that Lebron will surpass Kobe but it may take 3-5 more years and obviously Lebron has to stay healthy and continue his current level of play to do it.

Did you not watch Kobe's playoff performances from 2000-2002? Lebron had a solid year this past season during the playoffs, but thats not enough to say hes had a better playoff career.

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 01:31 PM
Did you not watch Kobe's playoff performances from 2000-2002? Lebron had a solid year this past season during the playoffs, but thats not enough to say hes had a better playoff career.
I did watch Kobe from 2000-2002.
Those are some of his least impressive years. :confused:

Kobe's Prime was from 06-09.

Davidgta1
08-20-2012, 01:32 PM
If Kobe was to beat lebron in the finals espn would go ape **** and skip bayless would die of happiness. Also SAS would say something like this skip listen to me I know lebron lost its a shame he should be a two time champ right now an he knows this this is his time an he just couldn't get it done but I don't blame him skip I blame the black mamba. I could almost guarantee thats what he would say.

ne3xchamps
08-20-2012, 01:33 PM
He already is and probably always will be IMO.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2012, 01:34 PM
Lebron is having a better playoff career then Kobe in terms of production, performances, consistency and impact.

Kobe may end up with more team success but that is because he had / will have far better career circumstances, supporting casts and luck and not because he is the better player.

I feel it is pretty much set in stone already that Lebron will surpass Kobe but it may take 3-5 more years and obviously Lebron has to stay healthy and continue his current level of play to do it.

Little know (or flat out denied) fact, LeBron's playoff numbers have always been superior to Kobe's. Unfortunately, for LeBron's first 6 playoffs, he had the likes of Mo, Sideshow Bob, a 50 year old Big Z and co on his team. Where as Kobe had Shaq, Fisher, Horry, Phil and co.

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 01:36 PM
#1.
Jordan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32
Top 5 : 30.16
Top 7 : 29.61

------------------------------------------------------------

#2.
Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56

------------------------------------------------------------

#6.
Lebron : Post Season - PER
Peak : 37.4
Top 5 : 28.6
Top 7 : 27.1

------------------------------------------------------------

#15.
Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 01:36 PM
Little know (or flat out denied) fact, LeBron's playoff numbers have always been superior to Kobe's. Unfortunately, for LeBron's first 6 playoffs, he had the likes of Mo, Sideshow Bob, a 50 year old Big Z and co on his team. Where as Kobe had Shaq, Fisher, Horry, Phil and co.
True.
I don't think Lebron has surpassed Kobe yet though.

Longevity matters.

However if Lebron maintains his current level of play for 3-5 more years we could start discussing it.

I will say for those who put a ton of emphasis on team accomplishments Lebron may never surpass Kobe.
Just depends on how you judge players I suppose.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2012, 01:38 PM
True.
I don't think Lebron has surpassed Kobe yet though.

Longevity matters.

However if Lebron maintains his current level of play for 3-5 more years we could start discussing it.

I don't think he has either. McGrady's PEAK was better than Kobe's, but I don't have Tracy as a top 40 player ever most likely. The reason I have Kobe so high has never been his peak, which has been beaten by well more than 15 players, off the top of my head. Its the fact that he his prime has basically been well over a decade, which is stupid hard to do. But all LeBron needs to do is keep it up a few years, and he is passing Kobe, sorry.

StinkEye
08-20-2012, 01:41 PM
Context, people.

You keep talking about "if Kobe beats LeBron." It's "if the Lakers beat the HEAT." Even if that happens, Kobe would have to outplay LeBron for it to matter in the player comparison.

It would be more likely that the HEAT lose while LeBron plays like Jordan reincarnated, while Kobe goes 10 of 30 every game, only to get bailed out by Nash and Howard and the rest of his supporting cast.

Sactown
08-20-2012, 01:49 PM
La winning would affect Dwights legacy far more than Kobe's even though rings are overrated anyhow.. I think it's more about the how the individuals perform rather than the outcome.. if Lebron plays out of his mind and still loses, than he only goes up in the rankings, not down...

Chavacano
08-20-2012, 01:52 PM
If Lebron had the team Kobe had last year, he will win multiple championships. I have never seen any super-star in NBA history that is constantly surrounded by all star players throughout his career. Lets just call Kobe the most fortunate player with championships in NBA history. Watch his finals stats, he is never the most efficient/reliable player on his team. You can't say that about Bron. Can Kobe lead his team in points/Rebounds/Assists in a single game in the play-offs? Nope...he always need someone else doing those things while getting all the glory.

^^ '06-'07 and '10-11 NBA finals says hi.

JesusWears24
08-20-2012, 01:59 PM
Kobe is and always be better.. if he wins another ring its to become better than Jordan and thats it.

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 02:03 PM
La winning would affect Dwights legacy far more than Kobe's even though rings are overrated anyhow.. I think it's more about the how the individuals perform rather than the outcome.. if Lebron plays out of his mind and still loses, than he only goes up in the rankings, not down...


Lol yea screw Jordan's six rings :rolleyes:

JesusWears24
08-20-2012, 02:04 PM
If LeBron quit today, Kobe would hold the all time ranking over him anyways. I really don't care to answer this question, because it depends entirely on how its done. Furthermor, LeBron is in his peak, so he still has much of his legacy/ranking to handle, where Kobe's is basically settled in stone for me. He isn't moving up from #8 for me, he can only move down as other players jump him.

Thats not true at all.. Kobe is only going up. There are three players still playing in the NBA that have shown "so far" that they can be top 10 material. Durant,Kobe,and Lebron. Neither of them are passing Kobe EVER. when its all said and done Kobe will surpass Jordan and lebron will round out the top 3.

juster1028
08-20-2012, 02:09 PM
Thats not true at all.. Kobe is only going up. There are three players still playing in the NBA that have shown "so far" that they can be top 10 material. Durant,Kobe,and Lebron. Neither of them are passing Kobe EVER. when its all said and done Kobe will surpass Jordan and lebron will round out the top 3.


colbe aint passin no MJ smh what have u

Hawkeye15
08-20-2012, 02:28 PM
Thats not true at all.. Kobe is only going up. There are three players still playing in the NBA that have shown "so far" that they can be top 10 material. Durant,Kobe,and Lebron. Neither of them are passing Kobe EVER. when its all said and done Kobe will surpass Jordan and lebron will round out the top 3.

Kobe is not going up. He is in his decline, and isn't even the best player on his team anymore. You don't get to climb ahead of being #8 while in decline and not even your teams best player.

Kobe will never surpass Jordan. That ship sailed long ago.

Vinny642
08-20-2012, 02:29 PM
Lebron will be better than Kobe at the end of his career

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 02:30 PM
Thats not true at all.. Kobe is only going up. There are three players still playing in the NBA that have shown "so far" that they can be top 10 material. Durant,Kobe,and Lebron. Neither of them are passing Kobe EVER. when its all said and done Kobe will surpass Jordan and lebron will round out the top 3.

Wrong. If kobe never wins another ring and lebron gets 3 more finals MVP's i would put him above kobe.

And lmao at you thinking kobe passes jordan.

MintBerryCrunch
08-20-2012, 02:32 PM
Kobe > LeBron.
Always

85BearsDefense
08-20-2012, 02:33 PM
If Lebron had the team Kobe had last year, he will win multiple championships. I have never seen any super-star in NBA history that is constantly surrounded by all star players throughout his career. Lets just call Kobe the most fortunate player with championships in NBA history. Watch his finals stats, he is never the most efficient/reliable player on his team. You can't say that about Bron. Can Kobe lead his team in points/Rebounds/Assists in a single game in the play-offs? Nope...he always need someone else doing those things while getting all the glory.

Just wondering. Can you name the best players that Kobe had around him during his prime. So basically after shaq left to they got Gasoll.

ziglur
08-20-2012, 02:33 PM
Mike Miller won the title for the Heat. Without his 3s they wouldnt have won.

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 02:33 PM
Mike Miller won the title for the Heat. Without his 3s they wouldnt have won.

Yea, without mike miller hitting 3's in game 5 the heat wouldnt have won by 20+

:facepalm:

85BearsDefense
08-20-2012, 02:34 PM
How because of stats? Lol championship count just as much when your a star player(leader of your team) if he has the stats but not the championships he'll never be considered better then kobe

kobe has 2 championship as the leader of the team...

Lebron will be there after next year


get off kobe's nuts

So scoring 29 points per game in the finals isn't leading ur team... Child please

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 02:34 PM
Kobe > LeBron.
Not for long

Fixed.

So scoring 29 points per game in the finals isn't leading ur team... Child please
Did he get a finals MVP that season?

Hawkeye15
08-20-2012, 02:36 PM
Mike Miller won the title for the Heat. Without his 3s they wouldnt have won.

I can guarantee you that if you pull up ever stars championship run, you will find games littered with role players producing above their norms. That is actually HOW you win a ring. Stars will be stars. Its the "other guys" contributions most times.

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 02:36 PM
Wrong. If kobe never wins another ring and lebron gets 3 more finals MVP's i would put him above kobe.

And lmao at you thinking kobe passes jordan.

Actually agree with Justin on this... with that said, a lot easier said than done.
I also feel Lebron will turn out like McGrady and Carter because they rely too much on their Athleticism. I think you will notice a much stronger Lebron decline (than Kobe's) around 30-31

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 02:37 PM
Actually agree with Justin on this... with that said, a lot easier said than done.
I also feel Lebron will turn out like McGrady and Carter because they rely too much on their Athleticism. I think you will notice a much stronger Lebron decline (than Kobe's) around 30-31

That depends, if he starts relying on his post up game the more he ages, with his passing he could be a beast down low drawing double teams and passing to the open man. Lebron is not a pure scorer so he could still find ways to have a big impact on games.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2012, 02:38 PM
Actually agree with Justin on this... with that said, a lot easier said than done.
I also feel Lebron will turn out like McGrady and Carter because they rely too much on their Athleticism. I think you will notice a much stronger Lebron decline (than Kobe's) around 30-31

LeBron has been impervious to injury, so these two comparisons are a joke. Even if LeBron begins to decline in 4 years, his passing and IQ, along with sheer size, will not allow that sharp of a decline. I mean, he could always just start chucking 24 attempts a night to keep his scoring average up, like Kobe does..

dnewguy
08-20-2012, 02:45 PM
LOL wade was never even close to the best player in the league :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

What?

Between 04 and 07, Wade was the best player in the league.

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 02:48 PM
LeBron has been impervious to injury, so these two comparisons are a joke. Even if LeBron begins to decline in 4 years, his passing and IQ, along with sheer size, will not allow that sharp of a decline. I mean, he could always just start chucking 24 attempts a night to keep his scoring average up, like Kobe does..

Did I ever say Lebron will get injured like tmac and Carter??? Besides the injuries those guys had, you know they weren't the same caliber players after they lost the ability to jump over ppl and get to the rim after they started aging. That's what I feel will happen to Lebron in his early 30s. As for the Kobe statement, I feel comfortable saying Lebron will NEVER be a better mid-range and/or 3point shooter than Kobe... So i dont think the whole chucking 24 (outside) attempts per night will work for him.

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 02:57 PM
Did I ever say Lebron will get injured like tmac and Carter??? Besides the injuries those guys had, you know they weren't the same caliber players after they lost the ability to jump over ppl and get to the rim after they started aging. That's what I feel will happen to Lebron in his early 30s. As for the Kobe statement, I feel comfortable saying Lebron will NEVER be a better mid-range and/or 3point shooter than Kobe... So i dont think the whole chucking 24 (outside) attempts per night will work for him.

We don't know that. Lebron has improved his 3pt shot.

Last 2 seasons kobe has avg 31% from 3.

Lebron has avg 34%

from 10-15 fee past 2 season kobe avg 42%, lebon avg 46%
from 16-23 feet kobe avg 40% lebron avg 42%

Lebron is more efficient than kobe from anywhere on the floor

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-20-2012, 02:59 PM
Watch his finals stats, he is never the most efficient/reliable player on his team. You can't say that about Bron.

llullz :laugh:

2007 and 2011 say.......yello!!!!

StinkEye
08-20-2012, 02:59 PM
Did I ever say Lebron will get injured like tmac and Carter??? Besides the injuries those guys had, you know they weren't the same caliber players after they lost the ability to jump over ppl and get to the rim after they started aging. That's what I feel will happen to Lebron in his early 30s. As for the Kobe statement, I feel comfortable saying Lebron will NEVER be a better mid-range and/or 3point shooter than Kobe... So i dont think the whole chucking 24 (outside) attempts per night will work for him.

I bet LeBron would make just as many, if not more, shots than Kobe if he took the same awful shots that he does.

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-20-2012, 03:00 PM
What?

Between 04 and 07, Wade was the best player in the league.

:speechless::speechless::speechless:

Hawkeye15
08-20-2012, 03:00 PM
Did I ever say Lebron will get injured like tmac and Carter??? Besides the injuries those guys had, you know they weren't the same caliber players after they lost the ability to jump over ppl and get to the rim after they started aging. That's what I feel will happen to Lebron in his early 30s. As for the Kobe statement, I feel comfortable saying Lebron will NEVER be a better mid-range and/or 3point shooter than Kobe... So i dont think the whole chucking 24 (outside) attempts per night will work for him.

when did they stop attacking? When did LeBron? Do you not see the difference? By LeBron's age, both their games didn't resemble the awesome players they once were.

Again, the aging process in players is speculation. When talking about a top 5 talent (we can all agree LeBron is that, right?), you have no clue how he will age. And furthermore, if he keeps it up another 4 seasons, I will take LeBron from 2003-2015 over Kobe's long *** career anyways.

As for the midrange statement, you have already been proven wrong. LeBron has been a better shooter percentage wise from 10-23 feet over Kobe for 2 seasons now.

You missed what I was trying to say lastly. Kobe is way in decline, and is no longer an MVP caliber player, despite what LA fans wish to think. So while I do agree his long prime is why he is top 10, its also why he has a ceiling on how high he can go. His peak seasons simply don't stack up to someone like LeBron James.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:00 PM
If LeBron quit today, Kobe would hold the all time ranking over him anyways. I really don't care to answer this question, because it depends entirely on how its done. Furthermor, LeBron is in his peak, so he still has much of his legacy/ranking to handle, where Kobe's is basically settled in stone for me. He isn't moving up from #8 for me, he can only move down as other players jump him.

So Kobe wins 2 more titles 1 or 2 finals mvps he doesn't move to like your top 5? Lol how many players would have won 6+ titles 3+ finals mvps and shatter multiple records? Lol Kobe would absolutely be a top 5 maybe top 3 player

Hawkeye15
08-20-2012, 03:01 PM
I will say its interesting reading what LeBron haters are trying to come up with now that their "no rings!" crutch is gone.

"He won't age as well".

Thanks nostradamus.

ThunderousDemon
08-20-2012, 03:01 PM
What?

Between 04 and 07, Wade was the best player in the league.

:bla:

Lakerfan In NY
08-20-2012, 03:02 PM
No he wasn't. maybe from 2003-2005.

This should be a good one?

Please name those players for each yr Kobe wasn't the best player on the planet.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2012, 03:02 PM
So Kobe wins 2 more titles 1 or 2 finals mvps he doesn't move to like your top 5? Lol how many players would have won 6+ titles 3+ finals mvps and shatter multiple records? Lol Kobe would absolutely be a top 5 maybe top 3 player

you really think Kobe is winning 2 more Finals MVP's? He would need to find the fountain of youth bud, with all that talent around him to share the wealth.

BobbyHillSwag
08-20-2012, 03:02 PM
What?

Between 04 and 07, Wade was the best player in the league.

LMAO, this is joke post of the day. From 05-07 iverson was the best player in the league. See what I did there? and iverson was better than wade during those years.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:02 PM
He already is and probably always will be IMO.

This.

seikou8
08-20-2012, 03:02 PM
What?

Between 04 and 07, Wade was the best player in the league.

number one troll dnewguy

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-20-2012, 03:03 PM
Heat fans, just stop. After LeBron and Wade are gone from the game, I don't expect to be hearing from you guys any longer, so I guess have at it with your verbal diarrhea for 6-7 more years.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2012, 03:04 PM
Heat fans, just stop. After LeBron and Wade are gone from the game, I don't expect to be hearing from you guys any longer, so I guess have at it with your verbal diarrhea for 6-7 more years.

sounds about right.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:05 PM
I don't think he has either. McGrady's PEAK was better than Kobe's, but I don't have Tracy as a top 40 player ever most likely. The reason I have Kobe so high has never been his peak, which has been beaten by well more than 15 players, off the top of my head. Its the fact that he his prime has basically been well over a decade, which is stupid hard to do. But all LeBron needs to do is keep it up a few years, and he is passing Kobe, sorry.


Sorry but if that was the case then the big 0 would be a top 5 player ever but he only won what 1-2 rings? Exactly stats+ championships matter that's the same reason why Malone isn't ranked higher then Duncan because he never won any championships and it's the same case here, what good are stats if you dont win anything worth a damn?

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-20-2012, 03:05 PM
you really think Kobe is winning 2 more Finals MVP's? He would need to find the fountain of youth bud, with all that talent around him to share the wealth.

I think Kobe will win 2 more titles with Dwight getting Finals MVP both times. But at the end of the day, it won't be like Kobe will be averaging 15 ppg or something like his first finals in 2000. He'll probably be a 25-6-4 guy in those finals and closing games for the Lakers like he has been doing his entire career.

Lakerfan In NY
08-20-2012, 03:05 PM
Wade was the best or 2nd best in 06, 09, 10 and 11.

Lebron/Wade > Kobe since 09.
That is not debatable.

Who was the best in those yrs

SaimuKala
08-20-2012, 03:06 PM
What?

Between 04 and 07, Wade was the best player in the league.

:confused:

2004-2005 - He was barely the best player on his team..

2005-2006 - It was close but he had an amazing year so yeah I can agree with that

2006-2007 - LeBron, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Nash were all better

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:06 PM
Kobe is and always be better.. if he wins another ring its to become better than Jordan and thats it.

Let's not go there now

Lakerfan In NY
08-20-2012, 03:09 PM
I don't think he has either. McGrady's PEAK was better than Kobe's, but I don't have Tracy as a top 40 player ever most likely. The reason I have Kobe so high has never been his peak, which has been beaten by well more than 15 players, off the top of my head. Its the fact that he his prime has basically been well over a decade, which is stupid hard to do. But all LeBron needs to do is keep it up a few years, and he is passing Kobe, sorry.

WOW!:facepalm:

SteBO
08-20-2012, 03:09 PM
So it's ridiculous to say that if LBJ wins a couple more rings with a couple more Finals MVP's? LeBron has been the better player for 5 years now, and he's still in the prime of his career. Stop acting like LeBron will never rise above Kobe. There's no need to get so defensive just because LeBron has a great chance to surpass Kobe all-time. I swear some of you guys are so threatened by this guy it's embarassing.

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 03:09 PM
Heat fans, just stop. After LeBron and Wade are gone from the game, I don't expect to be hearing from you guys any longer, so I guess have at it with your verbal diarrhea for 6-7 more years.

Yea, because pat riley can't get stars :rolleyes:

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:10 PM
What?

Between 04 and 07, Wade was the best player in the league.

Lullz
:facepalm:

SaimuKala
08-20-2012, 03:11 PM
Wade was the best or 2nd best in 06,09, 10 and 11.

Lebron/Wade > Kobe since 09.
That is not debatable.

Have you ever said anything positive about Kobe?

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 03:12 PM
I will say its interesting reading what LeBron haters are trying to come up with now that their "no rings!" crutch is gone.

"He won't age as well".

Thanks nostradamus.

Lol I am not hating on Lebron at all... I simply disagreed with one of your statements regarding the whole Peak yrs of Tmac being better than Kobe's Peak years, which lead me to say (and which I still believe it will turn out this way) that Lebron will not be able to maintain this level of play (and stats) for much longer.... Why? because his game relies to much on his athleticism which is why I compared him similar to how Tmac and Carter relied on theirs during the Peak years. I could be proven wrong if he continues developing his post game but I dont think many NON-Heat fans on here will believe that will happen. In fact I watch Lebron during the Olympic games on few occasions where he tried that quick fade away that Kobe has mastered and the 3 times I saw him do it they were all bricks. Why? Lebron just doesnt have the same footwork as Kobe and others do.

Yea Justin mentioned that Lebrons shooting % has been better than Kobe's the past 2 seasons... lets look at what changed the past 2 seasons... oh yea Lebron Joined Wade and Bosh, Ive gone over this before. But stats are stats. I guess I will either be proven right or wrong when we see how Kobe's shooting % goes this season now that he has Howard and Nash on his team.

Jarvo
08-20-2012, 03:12 PM
I don't know how people are saying Wade was never better then Lebron, Umm 2005-06?

Jarvo
08-20-2012, 03:13 PM
But when it's all said and done, Lebron will be better with less rings. Because if rings matter Horry is with the greats and Bill is the GOAT!

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-20-2012, 03:13 PM
Yea, because pat riley can't get stars :rolleyes:

Actually, Shaq started the movement of superstars and Riles was just fortunate enough that Shaq agreed for a trade to Miami in the Summer of 2004.


I don't remember Riles doing anything extraordinary during the Glen Rice era or the Alonzo-Tim Hardaway era.

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 03:14 PM
Who was the best in those yrs

06 = Wade | Kobe
09 = Lebron >= Wade > Kobe
2010 = Wade > Lebron
2011 = Wade > Lebron

SaimuKala
08-20-2012, 03:14 PM
My prediction is Kobe will win one more ring and FMVP and LeBron will end up with 4 rings and 4 FMVPs

Both end up top 5

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-20-2012, 03:16 PM
My prediction is Kobe will win one more ring and FMVP and LeBron will end up with 4 rings and 4 FMVPs

Both end up top 5

It's not as cut and dry in my opinion. It's hard to shove aside what Kareem, Magic, Russell, MJ and Wilt and Bird did. Surpassing those guys is going to be tough for both Kobe and LeBron.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:17 PM
I will say its interesting reading what LeBron haters are trying to come up with now that their "no rings!" crutch is gone.

"He won't age as well".

Thanks nostradamus.

Same could be said for your smirky comments as well, how can a player like Kobe not move up with more titles,broken records, and finals mvps? But Lebron can if he never wins another ring again but has dominant stats? Lol and Kobe not an MVP caliber player anymore last time I checked he finished 4th last year? He will only have a better chance this year(not saying he will win it) but with a higher efficiency this year and a better team record he has just as good a chance as say Lebron,Durant, and his new teammate Dwight

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-20-2012, 03:20 PM
Everytime there's a discussion about Kobe, Heat fans always have to bring in Wade and LeBron into the debate. It's like you guys are threatened by the Black Mamba and fear that neither of your SouthBeach homeboys' legacies will ever be greater than the Black Mamba.


I know Heat (aka LeBron and Wade) fans, it's hurting you inside..

MMMMMMMWWWWWaaaahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahhahahha


You're Welcome. :smoking:

Lakerfan In NY
08-20-2012, 03:20 PM
06 = Wade | Kobe
09 = Lebron >= Wade > Kobe
2010 = Wade > Lebron
2011 = Wade > Lebron

your short a couple of yr. NO?

2010/11=Wade. Really? What are you going by...

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:21 PM
you really think Kobe is winning 2 more Finals MVP's? He would need to find the fountain of youth bud, with all that talent around him to share the wealth.

Anwer my question how can he not move up of he finishes up like that? And oh well Jordan was still winning championships and fmvps at Kobe's current age and dot bringg the miles played argument it's bs... It well known you respect Kobe but hate the lakers so what tends to happen here is you hate the lakers so much that Sometimes it gets to you so much you have to dock Kobe for it lol and how is Kobe not better then bird? More championships records and everything smh

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 03:22 PM
your short a couple of yr. NO?
2010/11=Wade. Really? What are you going by...

My bad.
Kobe was the best in 07 and 08 in comparison to Bron/Wade anyway.

Wade was the best player in the 2011 playoffs imo and overall I thought he was the best player that year.
If not for Lebron choking he would have won FMVP and a Ring VS Dallas.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:23 PM
So it's ridiculous to say that if LBJ wins a couple more rings with a couple more Finals MVP's? LeBron has been the better player for 5 years now, and he's still in the prime of his career. Stop acting like LeBron will never rise above Kobe. There's no need to get so defensive just because LeBron has a great chance to surpass Kobe all-time. I swear some of you guys are so threatened by this guy it's embarassing.

Wait what? Last time I checked Lebron became the best player in 2010-2011 not 2009

SaimuKala
08-20-2012, 03:24 PM
06 = Wade | Kobe
09 = Lebron >= Wade > Kobe
2010 = Wade > Lebron
2011 = Wade > Lebron

Wade hasn't been better than LeBron since 2006

2009 it was still Kobe
2010 LeBron
2011 LeBron

JordansBulls
08-20-2012, 03:24 PM
Anwer my question how can he not move up of he finishes up like that? And oh well Jordan was still winning championships and fmvps at Kobe's current age and dot bringg the miles played argument it's bs... It well known you respect Kobe but hate the lakers so what tends to happen here is you hate the lakers so much that Sometimes it gets to you so much you have to dock Kobe for it lol and how is Kobe not better then bird? More championships records and everything smh

The difference was MJ was the best player in the league still and by far the best on his team especially production wise, that is not the case with Kobe. Hell he may not had even been top 5 the last 2 seasons.

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 03:25 PM
Anwer my question how can he not move up of he finishes up like that?

Because his playoff career in terms of production, performances, consistency and longevity and overall value will still not be better then 7-9 GOAT level players.

Putting him higher then 7-9 means you are just doing it cause he has so many titles even though that has nothing to do with him being a better player then #1-6 but because he had better career circumstances and supporting casts.

BobbyHillSwag
08-20-2012, 03:26 PM
Everytime there's a discussion about Kobe, Heat fans always have to bring in Wade and LeBron into the debate. It's like you guys are threatened by the Black Mamba and fear that neither of your SouthBeach homeboys' legacies will ever be greater than the Black Mamba.


I know Heat (aka LeBron and Wade) fans, it's hurting you inside..

MMMMMMMWWWWWaaaahhahahahahhahahahahahhahahhahahha


You're Welcome. :smoking:


wade needs to catch up to iverson before he starts thinking about kobe, he wont though. They really fear lebron wont stack up. Btw, all lebron homers aint miami fans. Some are fans of some of the worst teams in the nba.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:26 PM
My prediction is Kobe will win one more ring and FMVP and LeBron will end up with 4 rings and 4 FMVPs

Both end up top 5

Lebron ain't winning 4 more rings fmvps wade is about done maybe 1-2 more years only way it happens is if they get Lebron another star+ Dwight is now in LA and when Kobe gasol and Nash are gone we will have enough money to get another star

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 03:26 PM
Wade hasn't been better than LeBron since 2006

2009 it was still Kobe
2010 LeBron
2011 LeBron
Uhh, no.

2010 and 11 are debatable.
2011 especially considering how Lebron choked in the Finals and how it was Wade who carried the Heat against the Celtics.

Also both Wade and Lebron were far better then Kobe in 2009.

2009 Wade is better then any version of Kobe.
He was absolutely insane that year.

SaimuKala
08-20-2012, 03:27 PM
My bad.
Kobe was the best in 07 and 08 in comparison to Bron/Wade anyway.

Wade was the best player in the 2011 playoffs imo and overall I thought he was the best player that year.
If not for Lebron choking he would have won FMVP and a Ring VS Dallas.


LeBron carried his team to the finals.. no LeBron in the ECF and it would have been 4-0 for Chicago

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 03:28 PM
Same could be said for your smirky comments as well, how can a player like Kobe not move up with more titles,broken records, and finals mvps? But Lebron can if he never wins another ring again but has dominant stats? Lol and Kobe not an MVP caliber player anymore last time I checked he finished 4th last year? He will only have a better chance this year(not saying he will win it) but with a higher efficiency this year and a better team record he has just as good a chance as say Lebron,Durant, and his new teammate Dwight

^This!

IT annoys me every time someone makes a comment against lebron he comes in here saying we are Lebron haters. However, he is always in a thread that involves Kobe posting up negative/absurd comments discrediting Kobe (such as Tmacs peak was better than Kobe's)... still trying to figure that one out btw.
People on here act like Kobe fell off the face of the earth last year in the NBA... Last game he played in that elimination game against OKC, he looked pretty damn good still.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:29 PM
The difference was MJ was the best player in the league still and by far the best on his team especially production wise, that is not the case with Kobe. Hell he may not had even been top 5 the last 2 seasons.

He sure as hell was top 5 and ofcourse Jordan was the best player on his team he had Scottie as his 2nd best player not saying that's bad because he's a top 50 player but Dwight is in his prime Kobe is not if not there is no doubt it would be Kobe's team if he was still in his prime

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:31 PM
Because his playoff career in terms of production, performances, consistency and longevity and overall value will still not be better then 7-9 GOAT level players.

Putting him higher then 7-9 means you are just doing it cause he has so many titles even though that has nothing to do with him being a better player then #1-6 but because he had better career circumstances and supporting casts.

I take nothing you say seriously 99% of the time your either wrong, the cases you make absolutely suck or they just don't make sense

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 03:31 PM
Last game he played in that elimination game against OKC, he looked pretty damn good still.
You mean the game where he hogged the ball for 3 quarters which alienated his teammates offense and then proceeded to choke epically in the 4th Q as Durant dominated him?

I didn't think that was a very good game.
Impressive shooting through 3 Quarters but selfish play and poor defense and overall a pretty bad game.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:32 PM
Uhh, no.

2010 and 11 are debatable.
2011 especially considering how Lebron choked in the Finals and how it was Wade who carried the Heat against the Celtics.

Also both Wade and Lebron were far better then Kobe in 2009.

2009 Wade is better then any version of Kobe.
He was absolutely insane that year.

I'm sorry but this post has me laughing so hard hahaha

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:34 PM
^This!

IT annoys me every time someone makes a comment against lebron he comes in here saying we are Lebron haters. However, he is always in a thread that involves Kobe posting up negative/absurd comments discrediting Kobe (such as Tmacs peak was better than Kobe's)... still trying to figure that one out btw.
People on here act like Kobe fell off the face of the earth last year in the NBA... Last game he played in that elimination game against OKC, he looked pretty damn good still.

Exactly to many hypocrites on psd tho man

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 03:34 PM
I take nothing you say seriously 99% of the time your either wrong, the cases you make absolutely suck or they just don't make sense
No one cares what you think (especially me).
Sorry dude.

Just because you can't understand simple concepts is not my problem.

I am saying that as a playoff performer Kobe's career will never be more valuable then 7-9 other All-Time players even if he adds 2-3 more low level All-Star level seasons.

Meaning those 7-9 players were better players and playoff performers then Kobe and had more valuable careers.
They may have won less due to them having inferior career circumstances / supporting casts / luck but they were better players then Kobe and deserve to be ranked over him.

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 03:35 PM
You mean the game where he hogged the ball for 3 quarters which alienated his teammates offense and then proceeded to choke epically in the 4th Q as Durant dominated him?

I didn't think that was a very good game.
Impressive shooting through 3 Quarters but selfish play and poor defense and overall a pretty bad game.

No... the game where OKC was shooting the lights out and it seemed Kobe and MWP were the only ones that gave a **** out there. that game. Kobe if anything was keeping the Lakers in that game

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 03:37 PM
No... the game where OKC was shooting the lights out and it seemed Kobe and MWP were the only ones that gave a **** out there. that game. Kobe if anything was keeping the Lakers in that game
I guess we viewed it differently then.

I saw Kobe not running the offense correctly or trusting his teammates and only giving them sporadic touches which kept them from gaining any sort of offensive rhythm.

I saw Kobe statpadding and forgetting he was playing a team sport and when his hot hand finally went cold in the 4th Q LAL got raped.

Lakerfan In NY
08-20-2012, 03:39 PM
My bad.
Kobe was the best in 07 and 08 in comparison to Bron/Wade anyway.

Wade was the best player in the 2011 playoffs imo and overall I thought he was the best player that year.
If not for Lebron choking he would have won FMVP and a Ring VS Dallas.

05-06=Nash
06-07=Nash
07-08=Kobe
08-09=Kobe/LBJ
09-10=LBJ/Kobe
10-11=Dirk
11-12=LBJ

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:42 PM
No one cares what you think (especially me).
Sorry dude.

Just because you can't understand simple concepts is not my problem.

I am saying that as a playoff performer Kobe's career will never be more valuable then 7-9 other All-Time players even if he adds 2-3 more low level All-Star level seasons.

Meaning those 7-9 players were better players and playoff performers then Kobe and had more valuable careers.
They may have won less due to them having inferior career circumstances / supporting casts / luck but they were better players then Kobe and deserve to be ranked over him.
see that? That's a bunch of bs you just brought up a couple of examples excuses at why why they didn't win more your argument it weak let it go man hey I'm biased but atleast I know how to hide it in a way, I admit Lebron is the best in the NBA right now but seriously? You can't even admit how great Kobe is/was smh

Chronz
08-20-2012, 03:42 PM
I will say its interesting reading what LeBron haters are trying to come up with now that their "no rings!" crutch is gone.

"He won't age as well".

Thanks nostradamus.

Lol I am not hating on Lebron at all... I simply disagreed with one of your statements regarding the whole Peak yrs of Tmac being better than Kobe's Peak years, which lead me to say (and which I still believe it will turn out this way) that Lebron will not be able to maintain this level of play (and stats) for much longer.... Why? because his game relies to much on his athleticism which is why I compared him similar to how Tmac and Carter relied on theirs during the Peak years. I could be proven wrong if he continues developing his post game but I dont think many NON-Heat fans on here will believe that will happen. In fact I watch Lebron during the Olympic games on few occasions where he tried that quick fade away that Kobe has mastered and the 3 times I saw him do it they were all bricks. Why? Lebron just doesnt have the same footwork as Kobe and others do.

Yea Justin mentioned that Lebrons shooting % has been better than Kobe's the past 2 seasons... lets look at what changed the past 2 seasons... oh yea Lebron Joined Wade and Bosh, Ive gone over this before. But stats are stats. I guess I will either be proven right or wrong when we see how Kobe's shooting % goes this season now that he has Howard and Nash on his team.
Mac got injured, don't see Brion breaking down like that to be honest

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 03:42 PM
I guess we viewed it differently then.

I saw Kobe not running the offense correctly or trusting his teammates and only giving them sporadic touches which kept them from gaining any sort of offensive rhythm.

I saw Kobe statpadding and forgetting he was playing a team sport and when his hot hand finally went cold in the 4th Q LAL got raped.

Maybe. I was watching that game with a Co-worker of mine who was a huge OKC fan.. even he admitted how impressed he was for Kobe to be playing at that level still. He also saw Bynum & Pau give up on the Lakers, than again thats why his *** got shipped out to Philly and pau would have too if Lakers never got Nash.

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 03:42 PM
05-06=Nash
06-07=Nash
07-08=Kobe
08-09=Kobe/LBJ
09-10=LBJ/Kobe
10-11=Dirk
11-12=LBJ
Dude... I really don't think Kobe was better then Wade in 2009 although the gap might not be huge.

2009 Wade is one of the best SG seasons I have ever seen... I don't Kobe has ever been that good.

2010 is not even debatable between Wade / Kobe.

Wade was a high level Super-Star that year.
He had a much better regular season and absolutely dominated against the Celtics defense.

Kobe was a borderline Super-Star that year and got abused by the Celtics defense.

What basis does Kobe have to be better that year other then having a stacked team which allowed him to contend?
Wade was clearly better then Kobe in 2010 and 11 and it really isn't debatable.

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 03:45 PM
Mac got injured, don't see Brion breaking down like that to be honest

I dont see Bron getting injured like that neither.. thats not the point i was trying to make

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:46 PM
05-06=Nash
06-07=Nash
07-08=Kobe
08-09=Kobe/LBJ
09-10=LBJ/Kobe
10-11=Dirk
11-12=LBJ

Just because Nash won back to back mvps doesn't mean he was the best player that was Kobe to bad his teams sucked that's why he got shafted of 2 mvps

Chronz
08-20-2012, 03:48 PM
I don't think he has either. McGrady's PEAK was better than Kobe's, but I don't have Tracy as a top 40 player ever most likely. The reason I have Kobe so high has never been his peak, which has been beaten by well more than 15 players, off the top of my head. Its the fact that he his prime has basically been well over a decade, which is stupid hard to do. But all LeBron needs to do is keep it up a few years, and he is passing Kobe, sorry.


Sorry but if that was the case then the big 0 would be a top 5 player ever but he only won what 1-2 rings? Exactly stats+ championships matter that's the same reason why Malone isn't ranked higher then Duncan because he never won any championships and it's the same case here, what good are stats if you dont win anything worth a damn?
lol wat? Mentioning Big O just sound like you struggle putting stats into proper context.

Stats and winning do matter but I don't see the point of your comparison. Impact trumps everything imo. Same reason why only retards think Elvin Hayes and his allstar stats + championship make him greater than Chuck/Malone, they overrate championships under actual impact

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 03:48 PM
U mad???

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:49 PM
Andrew32 dnewguy and ballhog24 are some of the biggest trolls on psd

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 03:50 PM
when lebron plays with smush at point then kwame and mihm as a frontline,and averaged 35 ppg then talk to me dude always had a good team

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 03:50 PM
Just because Nash won back to back mvps doesn't mean he was the best player that was Kobe to bad his teams sucked that's why he got shafted of 2 mvps

Kobe was never clearly the best player in the league.
07 and 08 are the only two years he had a good argument for MVP although I can see a strong argument for Nash in 07 and CP3 in 08.

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 03:53 PM
Kobe was never clearly the best player in the league.
07 and 08 are the only two years he had a good argument for MVP although I can see a strong argument for Nash in 07 and CP3 in 08.

Guess you didnt have cable maybe you still dont...FOR ALL THE HATERS CHECK MY SIG ABOUT THE HEAT

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:54 PM
lol wat? Mentioning Big O just sound like you struggle putting stats into proper context.

Stats and winning do matter but I don't see the point of your comparison. Impact trumps everything imo. Same reason why only retards think Elvin Hayes and his allstar stats + championship make him greater than Chuck/Malone, they overrate championships under actual impact

What? My comparison was Lebron has similar stats to the big O but since he didn't win more then 2 championships he is barely a borderline top 10 player and some don't even have him on their top 10 list that's why I mentioned Lebron he has the stats but if he doesn't win anymore championships the highest I can see him ranking is #8 right now he's around the 12-15 range

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 03:55 PM
when lebron plays with smush at point then kwame and mihm as a frontline,and averaged 35 ppg then talk to me dude always had a good team
Wow. 35ppg with horrible consistency.
He padded his point totals against weak teams that year, only averaged 4.5apg and played no defense.

From a purely offensive standpoint T-Mac's 03 / Wade's 09 and Lebron's 09 were all clearly better seasons.

Smush Parker played well in the regular season and Kwame/Luke were decent roleplayers.
Not to mention Prime Odom who was a 20 / 10 / 5apg player on good efficiency with good defense.

Some teams Lebron had in Cleveland were worse as were some teams T-Mac had in the early 00's and some teams Wade had in the late 00's.

Even Gasol led similar teams into the playoffs out West before he joined Kobe... big whoop.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:55 PM
Kobe was never clearly the best player in the league.
07 and 08 are the only two years he had a good argument for MVP although I can see a strong argument for Nash in 07 and CP3 in 08.

Even when you wanna give Kobe credit you take shots smh

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 03:59 PM
Wow. 35ppg with horrible consistency.
He padded his point totals against weak teams that year, only averaged 4.5apg and played no defense.

From a purely offensive standpoint T-Mac's 03 / Wade's 09 and Lebron's 09 were all clearly better seasons.

Smush Parker played well in the regular season and Kwame/Luke were decent roleplayers.
Not to mention Prime Odom who was a 20 / 10 / 5apg player on good efficiency with good defense.

Some teams Lebron had in Cleveland were worse as were some teams T-Mac had in the early 00's and some teams Wade had in the late 00's.

Even Gasol led similar teams into the playoffs out West before he joined Kobe... big whoop.


Wait what lamar a 20/10/5 player hahaha more like a 15/9/4 player
... The more you post in this thread the funnier it gets

seikou8
08-20-2012, 04:00 PM
hahaha dirk was never the best player in nba

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 04:01 PM
Wait what lamar a 20/10/5 player hahaha more like a 15/9/4 player
... The more you post in this thread the funnier it gets

Lamar (2006 Playoffs) : 20 / 11 / 5apg
Lamar (2007 Playoffs) : 20 / 13 / 2apg

Kwame Brown in 2006 playoffs.
G1 : 14pts / 6rebounds
G2 : 12pts / 2blks on 55%TS
G3 : 13pts / 11rebounds / 5assists / 3blk on 66%TS - great game
G4 : 12pts / 10rebounds
G5 : 14pts on 6-6 shooting
G6 : 17pts / 9 rebounds / 1blk on 8-9 shooting / 90%TS - great game

Wow... worst scrub ever. :rolleyes:

Those casts were bad but certain Laker fans always try to make them seem much worse then they were.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 04:23 PM
Lamar (2006 Playoffs) : 20 / 11 / 5apg
Lamar (2007 Playoffs) : 20 / 13 / 2apg

Kwame Brown in 2006 playoffs.
G1 : 14pts / 6rebounds
G2 : 12pts / 2blks on 55%TS
G3 : 13pts / 11rebounds / 5assists / 3blk on 66%TS - great game
G4 : 12pts / 10rebounds
G5 : 14pts on 6-6 shooting
G6 : 17pts / 9 rebounds / 1blk on 8-9 shooting / 90%TS - great game

Wow... worst scrub ever. :rolleyes:

Those casts were bad but certain Laker fans always try to make them seem much worse then they were.

They are far worse then what Lebron ever did have back in those years that's for sure and oh wow great you take 2 series a total of 11 games to evaluate a player smh why didn't you ring up those players stats for the regular season?

STL Don
08-20-2012, 04:28 PM
If Kobe wins another championship?

Last time I checked he had 4 more than LeBron still.. but don't get me wrong, right now he, LBJ is the better all around player, there's no denying that. But for their careers, Kobe's still the more accomplished athlete with a lot more to be smiling about.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 04:31 PM
I mean people in here are all well Lebron is already better then Kobe on the all-time list!
Wades 2009 season was better then any of Kobe's
Tmacs and iversons primes were better then Kobe
The list goes on and on but hey there is always that one man being talked about mr.kobe Bryant seriously it's a shame that a guy so amazing can be critiqued so much for the littlest things... Some even say even if he wins 1-2 more rings and fmvps he won't move up their all-time list im like wtf? I mean Kobe right now is arguably a top 5 player ever and ring #6 would solidly that, but why so much hate for the guy? He's the best thing since MJ and hes the last of his kind, the NBA fans should appreciate him more he's got 2 years 3 max in him I'm gonna enjoy the ride he's the greatest player I've ever seen play(yes I didn't see Jordan in his prime) its gonna be I sad day when he retires...

Take a look at this video it really shows you how amazing Kobe is/was! And he was arguably the best player from 03-10' but whatever I'll let his haters keep talking because when your great, envy and hate will come along with it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyKgaeAoa-g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

asandhu23
08-20-2012, 04:43 PM
Chamberlain. The media hounded him as a loser throughout his career, his post-career life and even today.

Longhornfan1234
08-20-2012, 04:45 PM
Chamberlain. The media hounded him as a loser throughout his career, his post-career life and even today.

/

thread

DLCK
08-20-2012, 04:48 PM
Because of threads like this. Thats why. And he isnt the most disrespected . Im sure everywhere outside of the smart ***** and trolls of PSD hes seen as a top 5 top 10 top 15 player of all time.

xxplayerxx23
08-20-2012, 04:48 PM
http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/didn+t+read+_faf78641693debc1d581e7bedc6f4ed2.jpg Is that how you really feel?

Longhornfan1234
08-20-2012, 04:50 PM
I hate Wade, but 09 Wade > any of Kobe's years.



30, 7, 5, 2, 1 while shooting 50%. :worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy:


Too bad he was surrounded by bonefide scrubs.

XpLiCiTT
08-20-2012, 04:51 PM
I couldn't disagree more. I'm a huge LeBron fan...Kobe is a top 5 player of all-time, no debate.

Sure LeBron has the potential to enter that list once his career is over, but right now he has a lot of work to do.

I don't see how Kobe is disrespected at all..

mngopher35
08-20-2012, 04:52 PM
They are far worse then what Lebron ever did have back in those years that's for sure and oh wow great you take 2 series a total of 11 games to evaluate a player smh why didn't you ring up those players stats for the regular season?

Those Lakers teams were worse, but not far worse than alot of the teams Lebron had in Cleveland. Also even with his bad teams in Cleveland a young Lebron still carried them to great records and even to the finals. A young Bynum, odom, smush, kwame, mihm, brian cook, devon george is bad no doubt. An aging Illgauskas, young delonte west, mo williams, varejao, old ben wallace isnt much better though...

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 04:56 PM
Probably has to do with his fans. Especially the ones talking about how he will be better than jordan.

Longhornfan1234
08-20-2012, 04:58 PM
I couldn't disagree more. I'm a huge LeBron fan...Kobe is a top 5 player of all-time, no debate.

Sure LeBron has the potential to enter that list once his career is over, but right now he has a lot of work to do.

I don't see how Kobe is disrespected at all..



:facepalm:
This is why Kobe gets bashed a lot.

XpLiCiTT
08-20-2012, 05:03 PM
:facepalm:
This is why Kobe gets bashed a lot.

Facepalm? He is...or at least top 7, and he's not even done yet.

Gagan136
08-20-2012, 05:03 PM
I did watch Kobe from 2000-2002.
Those are some of his least impressive years. :confused:

Kobe's Prime was from 06-09.

Kobe average 25PPG/5APG/5.7RPG/1.5STL/1.1BLK in the 3-peat, pretty impressive to me.

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 05:04 PM
I couldn't disagree more. I'm a huge LeBron fan...Kobe is a top 5 player of all-time, no debate.

Sure LeBron has the potential to enter that list once his career is over, but right now he has a lot of work to do.

I don't see how Kobe is disrespected at all..

No way is kobe better than

jordan
magic
russell
kareem
larry


i would eveb put shaq ahead of kobe.

if anyone gets disrespected on here its shaq.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 05:04 PM
Probably has to do with his fans. Especially the ones talking about how he will be better than jordan.

Bet you can't name more then 3 that say that the only one I know who says that is jesuswears24 or something like that

Hellcrooner
08-20-2012, 05:05 PM
Wanna talk bout underated stars? Go ask Tim Duncan bout that.

mngopher35
08-20-2012, 05:05 PM
Every superstar is disrespected by some fans while overhyped by others. In Kobe's case I think its partially because his career achievments is based so much more on his length of it than individually dominant seasons. I'm not saying he hasnt dominated the league and been the best player for a couple seasons, but honestly Mcgrady's 2002/2003 season was as dominant as any Kobe has had. Also statistically speaking Kobe is behind some stars so a lot of people who only look at advanced stats/efficiency etc will tend to underrate him.

XpLiCiTT
08-20-2012, 05:07 PM
No way is kobe better than

jordan
magic
russell
kareem
larry


i would eveb put shaq ahead of kobe.

if anyone gets disrespected on here its shaq.

Noone is better than Jordan, bottom line. I'll give you those players but they played in a different era, Kobe deserves to be in the conversation with any of them.

XpLiCiTT
08-20-2012, 05:08 PM
Wanna talk bout underated stars? Go ask Tim Duncan bout that.

Hes widely considered a top 10 player of all time, how is he underrated? He's just a more reserved, not in the media all the time, type guy, thats why you dont hear about him as much.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 05:11 PM
No way is kobe better than

jordan
magic
russell
kareem
larry


i would eveb put shaq ahead of kobe.

if anyone gets disrespected on here its shaq.

As player:Larry bird

3 NBA champion (1981, 1984, 1986)
2 NBA Finals MVP (1984, 1986)
3 NBA Most Valuable Player (19841986)
12 NBA All-Star (19801988, 19901992)
9 All-NBA First Team (19801988)
All-NBA Second Team (1990)
3 NBA All-Defensive Second Team (19821984)
NBA Rookie of the Year
(1980)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1980)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1982)
3 Three-point Shootout champion (19861988)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
No. 33 retired by Boston Celtics
John R. Wooden Award (1979)
Naismith College Player of the Year (1979)
AP National Player of the Year (1979)
Oscar Robertson Trophy (1979)
Adolph Rupp Trophy (1979)
NABC Player of the Year (1979)
2 MVC Player of the Year (1978, 1979)
2 Consensus NCAA All-American First Team (1978, 1979)

Career statistics
Points 21,791 (24.3 ppg)
Assists 5,695 (6.3 apg)
Rebounds 8,974 (10.0 rpg)

Kobe:
5 NBA champion (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)
2 NBA Finals MVP (20092010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
14 NBA All-Star (1998, 20002012)
4 NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
2 NBA scoring champion (20062007)
10 All-NBA First Team (20022004, 20062012)
2 All-NBA Second Team (20002001)
2 All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9 NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 20032004, 20062011)
3 NBA All-Defensive Second Team (20012002, 2012)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (1996)


Career stats: 25.4 ppg 4.7 ast 5.3 reb 1.5 steals

So how is Kobe not better then bird, and Russell is ****en overrated as hell

championships
08-20-2012, 05:13 PM
Haters will hate

And us Lakers fans will continue to watch championships.

Its just the way it is.

Gritz
08-20-2012, 05:15 PM
There is life outside of prosportsdaily, this is where he is disrespected

Lakerhead4ever
08-20-2012, 05:16 PM
Who cares what psd fans say. I mean let's face it, outside of laker fans and honest nba fans, everyone else hates the hell out of him for plenty of reasons.
1. He's killed their teams chances of winning
2. He's compared to Jordan.
3. He's been on top for a while now.
4. He was a spoiled and cocky brat growing up.
5. He says what he wants to anybody.
6. he wins championships.

No matter what ppl say, his career speaks for itself.

Even God wasn't liked.

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 05:16 PM
Kobe average 25PPG/5APG/5.7RPG/1.5STL/1.1BLK in the 3-peat, pretty impressive to me.

and shaq avg 27/11r/3a 2.5blk/ on .57% shooting

Hotone1401
08-20-2012, 05:21 PM
Shouldn't we be asking what if Lebron loses to Kobe in the Finals??

I mean Kobe's career is pretty much established and the last I checked, Lebron is the one who needs to catchup.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 05:22 PM
Who cares what psd fans say. I mean let's face it, outside of laker fans and honest nba fans, everyone else hates the hell out of him for plenty of reasons.
1. He's killed their teams chances of winning
2. He's compared to Jordan.
3. He's been on top for a while now.
4. He was a spoiled and cocky brat growing up.
5. He says what he wants to anybody.
6. he wins championships.

No matter what ppl say, his career speaks for itself.

Even God wasn't liked.

:clap:

JordansBulls
08-20-2012, 05:24 PM
No way is kobe better than

jordan
magic
russell
kareem
larry


i would eveb put shaq ahead of kobe.

if anyone gets disrespected on here its shaq.

You can make an argument that Kobe is better than Bird.

XpLiCiTT
08-20-2012, 05:25 PM
You can make an argument that Kobe is better than Bird.

He's better than Russell too.

MackSnackWrap
08-20-2012, 05:26 PM
Most Disrespected? Really? Id say Lebron is one of the most disrespected and its not even close.
Kobe is without a doubt one of the G.O.A.T. I have him at top 2 all time. However i believe if things go Lebons way he could challenge Kobe and Jordan.

Chronz
08-20-2012, 05:27 PM
Because he gets overrated by lots of fans who want him to be MJ.

mvb815
08-20-2012, 05:28 PM
why do lakers fans victimize themselves? who hates kobe? i'm a raptors fan who just got finished watching his 81 point game and i love kobe.

you want to talk about hated players? talk about lebron james, but at this point in his career kobe's individual stats are becomming more and more irrelevant.


why is it so hard for lakers fans to realize kobe isn't the center of attention in the nba anymore? it's like you guys wont be happy unless every single person in the world says kobe is the GOAT

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 05:29 PM
Most Disrespected? Really? Id say Lebron is one of the most disrespected and its not even close.
Kobe is without a doubt one of the G.O.A.T. I have him at top 2 all time. However i believe if things go Lebons way he could challenge Kobe and Jordan.

You have him at #2 ? Wow not even I have him there he's In my top 5 but not top 3 as of yet 1-2 more titles can change that though

mamba24
08-20-2012, 05:31 PM
Probably has to do with his fans. Especially the ones talking about how he will be better than jordan.

I agree... I am a die hard Kobe fan. I do think he is ARGUABLY a top 5 player of all time, but I definitely realize and understand why people would argue against him being in the top 5. There are just some stupid fans who go overboard and say he is better than Jordan.

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 05:32 PM
You have him at #2 ? Wow not even I have him there he's In my top 5 but not top 3 as of yet 1-2 more titles can change that though

Titles are not a very good way to judge individual players.
Titles are team accomplishments.

Kobe was a sidekick for 3 of his titles and was only clearly the best player on 1 of his 5 titles.

Not saying Kobe isn't a great player but the main reason he won so many titles is because he got to play with some really great players (Peak Shaq) and on some great teams at the right times.

Someone like Duncan / Hakeem were better basketball players then Kobe and had better playoff careers but won less due to having vastly inferior career circumstances.

Trying to argue for him being much higher then #10 at this point is going overboard and there is no logic behind that other then 5 rings!
I mean do we really just judge players based on popularity and rings while ignoring circumstances and context and production/performances/consistency and on court impact??

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 05:35 PM
Hes disrespected because out of all the players after Jordan, Kobe is really the only one that comes close to resembling him and that bugs the **** out of people who
a. watched jordan play and are huge jordan fans.
b. hate the Lakers.

I read somewhere a while ago which I do agree to a certain extent... If Kobe had come first before Jordan and Jordan was playing right now. If Jordan were doing the things he did in the 90s today... They would still say Kobe was better, just because he came first. THIS ISINT SAYING Kobe is better than Jordan Im just saying it doesnt help Jordan Came first. Point is no matter what any player does in the next 20 yrs in the NBA, they wont be considered better than jordan.

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 05:35 PM
You could make a much more logical and sound argument for Kobe being outside of the Top 10 then for him being in the Top 5...

Hotone1401
08-20-2012, 05:36 PM
It seems as though if you're a heat or Lebron fan than you hate and terribly underrate Kobe. That's just what I've noticed. On the other hand, since Lebron won his ring, he has earn the respect of Laker fans.

It's just the way it is. There are idiots with advance stats who will always try to discredit Kobe. We're only noticing it more now because Kobe is on the decline. Kobe's haters will always be around and there is nothing he can do to change that, no matter how much he has grown as a player and a person, people don't care because it would leave them nothing to do with their lives.

NYY 26 to 7
08-20-2012, 05:37 PM
Wanna talk bout underated stars? Go ask Tim Duncan bout that.

This. Come on Kobe disrespected? Everyone has some haters but Kobe by in large gets nothing but love and respect from media and fans. I would actually say he gets a little too much when people try and compare him with Jordan, which happens often.

mamba24
08-20-2012, 05:38 PM
:facepalm:
This is why Kobe gets bashed a lot.

it's and opinion that is debatable. Thats the bottom line... It's the band wagon fans who say there is no debate that make it a problem. On the other hand it's also the people who dont allow debate for Kobe to actually be considered a top 5 player of all time lol. opinions can go both ways. a true basketball fan will understand that kobe is arguably top 5 ever. anyone else is either a homer or doesnt really know basketball.

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 05:39 PM
Hes disrespected because out of all the players after Jordan, Kobe is really the only one that comes close to resembling him and that bugs the **** out of people who
a. watched jordan play and are huge jordan fans.
b. hate the Lakers.
Just because he "resembles" Jordan in an atheistic sense at times does not mean much if anything when you take into account that his production, performances, consistency and impact aren't even comparable to Jordan.

Shaq, Russell, Magic, Kareem and maybe Duncan are the only players to have anything comparable to Jordans combination of impact, consistency and longevity in the playoffs.

Kobe is not in the same galaxy as that group.


#1.
Jordan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32
Top 5 : 30.16
Top 7 : 29.61
Top 10 : 28.89
Top 13 : 28.6

------------------------------------------------------------

#2.
Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52
Top 13 : 26.55
14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33

------------------------------------------------------------

#4.
Duncan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 28.4
Top 5 : 26.96
Top 7 : 27.49
Top 10 : 26.67
Top 13 : 25.4

------------------------------------------------------------

#15.
Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Top 10 : 22.98
Top 13 : 21.62

------------------------------------------------------------

Hotone1401
08-20-2012, 05:42 PM
and shaq avg 27/11r/3a 2.5blk/ on .57% shooting

Why is it necessary to put Shaq's shooting % against Kobe's???

All he did was dunk so obviously it's going to be higher. I mean seriously, nothing against you but I hate that stat. Let's try comparing "jump-shooting" % from now on yeah? What do you say? Let's take your "advanced stats" and advance them even more to compare jump shooting percentages of Kobe, Wade, and Lebron throughout the years. That would be interesting...

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 05:44 PM
You could make a much more logical and sound argument for Kobe being outside of the Top 10 then for him being in the Top 5...

Hahaha no

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 05:46 PM
A true basketball fan will understand that kobe is arguably top 5 ever.
That is just your opinion though.
The majority of people rank Kobe in the 8-12 area.

The % of people who rank Kobe 5 or better is extremely small.

Kobe has absolutely zero case to be ranked over Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Russell or Magic.

These guys above were vastly better playoff performers over their careers in terms of production, performances/impact, consistency and even for the most part longevity.

Nothing Kobe can do at this point will get him close to that group.

Players like Duncan, Bird, Hakeem and Chamberlain also have strong arguments to be ranked ahead of Kobe currently and nothing Kobe can do before he retires will guarantee him a spot ahead of them.

Perhaps you'll be able to make an argument for him VS those four but it won't be something everyone or even the majority agrees on.

If you disagree with any of this then you are simply biased or have a poor understanding of the game.

:win:

Hotone1401
08-20-2012, 05:48 PM
Just because he "resembles" Jordan in an atheistic sense at times does not mean much if anything when you take into account that his production, performances, consistency and impact aren't even comparable to Jordan.

Shaq, Russell, Magic, Kareem and maybe Duncan are the only players to have anything comparable to Jordans combination of impact, consistency and longevity in the playoffs.

Kobe is not in the same galaxy as that group.

I think the guy was referring to Kobe's game and skillset. You love to jump over anything knocking Kobe but regardless of what you say, Kobe has had the best skillset and fundamentals as a player out of everyone you mention. Kobe stole all of MJ's footwork and improved on it.

I think I really dislike you. You never have anything good to say about Kobe. Because of that, I really can't take anything you say about Kone as anything else but hate.

Straight to the ignore list you go.

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 05:48 PM
Just because he "resembles" Jordan in an atheistic sense at times does not mean much if anything when you take into account that his production, performances, consistency and impact aren't even comparable to Jordan.

Shaq, Russell, Magic, Kareem and maybe Duncan are the only players to have anything comparable to Jordans combination of impact, consistency and longevity in the playoffs.

Kobe is not in the same galaxy as that group.

Again... someone just mentioned 2 posts above you about how people find ways to discredit kobe through advanced stats and sure enough you bring em up...
Yet, Jordan himself goes on to say Kobe is the only player that deserves to be compared to himself.
I think ill believe Jordan (who is the best player) > advanced stats.

As far as consistency goes... I dont know how much more consistency you want from Kobe. Hes been Elite since 2000 and has only missed the playoffs 1 time??

Lakerhead4ever
08-20-2012, 05:49 PM
who cares. kobe's career speaks for itself. he is in his 17 year!! of course he's not the best in league. but one thing is forsure, he is still playing at an elite level and competing for championships. even with without dwight he would still be competing at an elite level.

its lebrons league now, he has a lot of making up to do if he wants to go down better than kobe or jordan for that matter. because you can be on top and then start declining the next year, and with the new stars like durant, cp3, dwill, it wont be easy for lebron to continue to win chips.

but regardless, kobe's at top 8 player, and is still playing! scary

XpLiCiTT
08-20-2012, 05:51 PM
I don't even know how people can sit here and try to say Kobe isn't even in the top 10...

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/stephen-a-smith-first-take-skip-bayless-2.jpg

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 05:51 PM
Regardless, kobe's at top 8 player, and is still playing! scary

Agreed.
Kobe is one of the greatest to ever play the game and I truly admire the fact that in his 16 or what is it 17th season now he is still capable of playing like an All-Star.

:clap:

BigCityofDreams
08-20-2012, 05:51 PM
Playing with Shaq and getting him traded(what some ppl believe)
The Jordan comparisons
The teams he played on

How many yrs have you heard ppl say his first 3 rings don't count. In what world can someone say the championships he won as a number 2 don't count wtf. Hell they're still saying it today There is a radio host in NY that doesn't even consider him top ten all time. He won't pass MJ but to not have him in the top ten is insane.

mngopher35
08-20-2012, 05:51 PM
He didnt put it against kobes he is just using it to show how dominant Shaq was. 57% shooting while scoring 27ppg is very good, even if Shaq is a big man.

bucketss
08-20-2012, 05:52 PM
Nash Is still an Elite PG... If Nash had a better team/better record last year he definitely would have received more recognition and most likely STILL be considered a superstar



I didint know having a great finals performance makes you the best player in the NBA... Does that mean Nowitzki > Lebron than just because Mavs one in 2011?

dirk had a great finals. wade had one of the most dominant if not the most dominant finals performances EVER

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-20-2012, 05:52 PM
That is just your opinion though.
The majority of people rank Kobe in the 8-12 area.

The % of people who rank Kobe 5 or better is extremely small.

Kobe has absolutely zero case to be ranked over Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Russell or Magic.

These guys above were vastly better playoff performers over their careers in terms of production, performances/impact, consistency and even for the most part longevity.

Nothing Kobe can do at this point will get him close to that group.

Players like Duncan, Bird, Hakeem and Chamberlain also have strong arguments to be ranked ahead of Kobe currently and nothing Kobe can do before he retires will guarantee him a spot ahead of them.

Perhaps you'll be able to make an argument for him VS those four but it won't be something everyone or even the majority agrees on.

If you disagree with any of this then you are simply biased or have a poor understanding of the game.

:win:


Lol your a great troll poster you know

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 05:52 PM
Just because he "resembles" Jordan in an atheistic sense at times does not mean much if anything when you take into account that his production, performances, consistency and impact aren't even comparable to Jordan.

Shaq, Russell, Magic, Kareem and maybe Duncan are the only players to have anything comparable to Jordans combination of impact, consistency and longevity in the playoffs.

Kobe is not in the same galaxy as that group.

Certain people won't acknowledge these stats

XpLiCiTT
08-20-2012, 05:53 PM
If you disagree with any of this then you are simply biased or have a poor understanding of the game.


So if someone disagrees with YOU...they are wrong. That is logical.

Lakeshow24KB
08-20-2012, 05:53 PM
OP if everyone in sports is supposed to agree with each other then what's the point? All the disrespect and competition is what makes us check PSD every hour or so. This is what makes sports fun. What do you think drives Kobe to play harder and harder? It's all the hating and bickering that makes us watch sports and these crazy athletes compete. I love it.

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 05:54 PM
Why is it necessary to put Shaq's shooting % against Kobe's???

All he did was dunk so obviously it's going to be higher. I mean seriously, nothing against you but I hate that stat. Let's try comparing "jump-shooting" % from now on yeah? What do you say? Let's take your "advanced stats" and advance them even more to compare jump shooting percentages of Kobe, Wade, and Lebron throughout the years. That would be interesting...

Or we can do post season PER.

Shaq-#2
Kobe-#15

kobe is a top 10 player of all time. i would put shaq above him but thats just my opinion.

Hotone1401
08-20-2012, 05:54 PM
He didnt put it against kobes he is just using it to show how dominant Shaq was. 57% shooting while scoring 27ppg is very good, even if Shaq is a big man.

We all know how dominant Shaq was though don't we? I mean the guy got the ball down low and it was either a bucket or a foul. I'm surprised it isn't higher. And credit to Kobe for always getting Shaq the ball in the right spots so that he could be even more successful than he already was.

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 05:54 PM
I don't even know how people can sit here and try to say Kobe isn't even in the top 10...

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/stephen-a-smith-first-take-skip-bayless-2.jpg

I rank Kobe in my Top #10 but I can understand arguments that place him lower.
You could still fairly rank Kobe behind -

-Jordan
-Shaq
-Kareem
-Russell
-Magic
-Duncan
-Bird
-Hakeem
-Chamberlain

Then you have players like Oscar Robertson, KG and maybe 2-3 others with semi-reasonable case's to be ranked over Kobe if you take into account career circumstances and don't put that much weight on Rings.

So although I do rank Kobe in my Top 10 I could fairly see a case for Kobe being put at #11 with Oscar taking his place.

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 05:55 PM
Because he's the new micheal jordan....and mj was hated on bigtime....all these guys sucking MJ testicles werent even bulls fans to begin with just kobe haters...hey u mad?

Hotone1401
08-20-2012, 05:56 PM
Or we can do post season PER.

Shaq-#2
Kobe-#15

kobe is a top 10 player of all time. i would put shaq above him but thats just my opinion.

It's so hard to judge who is best all-time but I had Shaq ahead of Kobe as well until Kobe beat the Celtics 2 yrs ago in the Finals. That's just my opinion and no disrespect to the Big Arristotle.

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 05:56 PM
Because he's the new micheal jordan....and mj was hated on bigtime....all these guys sucking MJ testicles werent even bulls fans to begin with just kobe haters...hey u mad?

:drunk:

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 05:57 PM
I don't even know how people can sit here and try to say Kobe isn't even in the top 10...

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/stephen-a-smith-first-take-skip-bayless-2.jpg

Agreed man, but then again thats exactly why this thread was created haha


Certain people won't acknowledge these stats

Again I think Ill believe the endless videos/articles there are of coaches and players who have played with Kobe than people on a forum who probably would run out of breath before they could get a layup in on a basketball court.

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 05:57 PM
I rank Kobe in my Top #10 but I can understand arguments that place him lower.
You could still fairly rank Kobe behind -

-Jordan
-Shaq-4 rings Kobe 5
-Kareem
-Russell
-Magic
-Duncan-4 rings kobe 5
-Bird-3 rings,kobe 5
-Hakeem2 rings-kobe 5
-Chamberlain1 ring kobe 5

Then you have players like Oscar Robertson, KG and maybe 2-3 others with semi-reasonable case to be ranked over Kobe if you take into account career circumstances and don't put that much weight on Rings.

So although I do rank Kobe in my Top 10 I could fairly see a case for Kobe being put at #11 with Oscar taking his place.

smh at u dude

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 05:58 PM
Agreed man, but then again thats exactly why this thread was created haha



Again I think Ill believe the endless videos/articles there are of coaches and players who have played with Kobe than people on a forum who probably would run out of breath before they could get a layup in on a basketball court.

Nuff said this post just shut it down....lets go home!!!!!

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 06:00 PM
smh at u dude
Horry = 7 Ring
Kobe = 5 Ring

Derp. :facepalm:

Rings are a team accomplishment they don't necessarily mean one player is better then another.

Example :

Player A is a level 10 player and he plays with level 2 casts for 10 years winning 0 Rings.
Player B is a level 5 player and he plays with level 7-10 casts for 10 years and wins 4 Rings.

Player A > Player B regardless of the fact that Player B has a four to zero Ring advantage.

Production, Performances/Impact, Consistency and Longevity >>> # of Rings -
-When it comes to judging individual players.

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 06:01 PM
Agreed man, but then again thats exactly why this thread was created haha



Again I think Ill believe the endless videos/articles there are of coaches and players who have played with Kobe than people on a forum who probably would run out of breath before they could get a layup in on a basketball court.

And these so called coaches and players have kobe in the top 5 of all time?

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 06:02 PM
Horry = 7 Ring
Kobe = 5 Ring

Derp.

Rings are a team accomplishment they don't nessasarily mean one player is better then another.

Example :
Player A is a level 10 player and he plays with level 2 casts for 10 years winning 0 Rings.

Player B is a level 5 player and he plays with level 7-10 casts for 10 years and wins 4 Rings.

Player A > Player B regardless of the fact that B has a four to zero Ring advantage.
Just like you and every dumb*** that says "horry"...let me help you out a bit kobe wasnt a player off the bench who sat in the corner for open threes so get your head out your culo and recognize the difference between role players and superstars! your welcome

Hotone1401
08-20-2012, 06:03 PM
Or we can do post season PER.

Shaq-#2
Kobe-#15

kobe is a top 10 player of all time. i would put shaq above him but thats just my opinion.

Where do you rank Lebron all-time as of this moment?? I'm really curious to hear your answer.

I personally have not even begun to rank him because it's still so early. At this rate though, he will be top 5 if he continues to win. I won't ever rank or compare to MJ because Lebron has so much more to prove. He has gotten the monkey off his back and shut the haters up like MJ did, but it's gonna take some time for him to display his competitive spirit and evolution as a complete basketball player while mastering every aspect of the game, and down right owning the league with back to back titles before I even put him in that conversation.

bluefire7002
08-20-2012, 06:04 PM
dirk had a great finals. wade had one of the most dominant if not the most dominant finals performances EVER

Totally agree, Dirk was awesome during that post-season.
But I would still say Lebron was the better player that year.

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 06:05 PM
And these so called coaches and players have kobe in the top 5 of all time?

They sure do but you and every other orlando/miami fan or just answering out of complete disgust,hate how bout you go get a center and maybe just maybe youll have a chance to win a REAL ring not a lockout ring when we had a NEW coach and NEW team

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 06:06 PM
They sure do but you and every other orlando/miami fan or just answering out of complete disgust,hate how bout you go get a center and maybe just maybe youll have a chance to win a REAL ring not a lockout ring when we had a NEW coach and NEW team

Little early to be drinking.

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 06:07 PM
Where do you rank Lebron all-time as of this moment?? I'm really curious to hear your answer.

I personally have not even begun to rank him because it's still so early. At this rate though, he will be top 5 if he continues to win. I won't ever rank or compare to MJ because Lebron has so much more to prove. He has gotten the monkey off his back and shut the haters up like MJ did, but it's gonna take some time for him to display his competitive spirit and evolution as a complete basketball player while mastering every aspect of the game, and down right owning the league with back to back titles before I even put him in that conversation.

Somewhere around 20 give or take a few spots

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 06:07 PM
:drunk:

And he's not???? buddy you are an complete idiot join the barkley bandwagon and undermine the greatest player since MJ left

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 06:08 PM
There is a difference between role players and superstars! your welcome

I agree.

There is also an enormous difference between GOAT level Super-Stars like 00 Shaq / 91 Jordan and a low to mid level All-Star like 00 Kobe or a high level All-Star like 02 Kobe.

But their Rings deserve equal credit right??? :facepalm:

XpLiCiTT
08-20-2012, 06:09 PM
Horry = 7 Ring
Kobe = 5 Ring

Derp. :facepalm:

Rings are a team accomplishment they don't necessarily mean one player is better then another.



Please dont try to play that card. Helen Keller knows that Kobe isn't even in the same breath as Horry. Sure anyone can technically have rings..but you argue for Kobe and other greats having rings because they are the key pieces to the puzzle. When you are a top 10 regarded player of all time, rings are then an extremely valid argument.

Hotone1401
08-20-2012, 06:09 PM
Somewhere around 20 give or take a few spots

Respectable answer.

We both know he going to keep climbing up that list and maybe faster than anybody we've ever seen besides MJ.

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 06:10 PM
Little early to be drinking.

Ok dude your fanhood is destroyed maybe you need cable tv,or stop watching highlghts to determine whos the best player.....your not a bulls fan and never were your just a kobe hater king the ring 5!!!! even if lebron,wade,bosh put their rings together they would still be short one!!!!!

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 06:11 PM
Please dont try to play that card. Helen Keller knows that Kobe isn't even in the same breath as Horry. Sure anyone can technically have rings..but you argue for Kobe and other greats having rings because they are the key pieces to the puzzle. When you are a top 10 regarded player of all time, rings are then an extremely valid argument.

Thank you

Andrew32
08-20-2012, 06:11 PM
Please dont try to play that card. Helen Keller knows that Kobe isn't even in the same breath as Horry.

Yeah and 00-02 or 09-2010 Kobe isn't even in the same breath as 00-02 Shaq or 91-93 Jordan.

Are their Rings of equal value?

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 06:12 PM
I agree.

There is also an enormous difference between GOAT level Super-Stars like 00 Shaq / 91 Jordan and a low to mid level All-Star like 00 Kobe or a high level All-Star like 02 Kobe.

But their Rings deserve equal credit right??? :facepalm:

kobe only has 2 finals mvp's. ****, lebron will be tied with him after next season.

BigCityofDreams
08-20-2012, 06:13 PM
Just like you and every dumb*** that says "horry"...let me help you out a bit kobe wasnt a player off the bench who sat in the corner for open threes so get your head out your culo and recognize the difference between role players and superstars! your welcome


How long are ppl going to use Horry as a reponse? lol

Hotone1401
08-20-2012, 06:14 PM
Yeah and 00-02 or 09-2010 Kobe isn't even in the same breath as 00-02 Shaq or 91-93 Jordan.

Are their Rings of equal value?

Can somebody ban this hater or get him a girlfriend? He doesn't contribute. He just spews Kobe hate all day everyday.

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 06:14 PM
Respectable answer.

We both know he going to keep climbing up that list and maybe faster than anybody we've ever seen besides MJ.

He has a lot of work to do. For him to crack top 5 he will need 3 more finals mvps, probably another reg season MVP. A dpoy award wouldn't hurt. He has a lot of potential. no one will ever be better than jordan but lebron has a lot of time left in his career and a good 5 years left in his prime, maybe more.

LakersSaintsLSU
08-20-2012, 06:15 PM
kobe only has 2 finals mvp's. ****, lebron will be tied with him after next season.

your new name is charles barkley!!!! so finals mvps are more important then winning the title regardless? dude you need to stfu while your ahead every post you post brings your I.Q. down and by the look of things your not even born yet!!!!

justinnum1
08-20-2012, 06:16 PM
your new name is charles barkley!!!! so finals mvps are more important then winning the title regardless? dude you need to stfu while your ahead every post you post brings your I.Q. down and by the look of things your not even born yet!!!!

your new name is kobe's #1 fanboy.