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View Full Version : In the grand scheme of things, if kobe failed to win finals Mvp, what's the point?



bric
08-19-2012, 12:39 PM
If kobe comes back with his 6th ring and d12 gets finals Mvp or Gasol or someone else on the team, will it really matter?

Imo rings don't mean a ton when talking about superstars, finals Mvp do, that is the true measure of who is the best player in a championship team

When kobe had shaq, he never win a finals Mvp with him, therefore shaq's 4 rings and 3 finals Mvp >> > kobe's career

Mj has 6 rings and 6 finals Mvp so there is no question who is better between him and kobe

As it stands kobe has 5 rings with a measly 2 finals Mvp awards and lets not even discuss who his teams beat to win those titles : a one man team in the sixers, the new jersey nets without a superstar unless you considered Kidd one, the Orlando Magic who got to the finals by default due to Kevin garnett being injured that year(thus is indisputable, especially after the celtics beat them every year that kg was healthy after that year)

But alas, that is another story for another thread

As I'm trying to say, what does a 6th ring mean for kobe if he doesn't get his 3rd finals Mvp to go along with it? That he has the same amount as Robert Horry or something?

We would be having this same discussion if Wade got finals Mvp last year, lebron's ring would be pretty much meaningless

Anyways, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think finals Mvp are the be all end all, and not rings because they are the true measure of the best player on a championship team? Or do you think a ring is a ring regardless if you are the 4th or 1st best player on your team?

Andrew32
08-19-2012, 12:44 PM
Jordan won 6 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Shaq led 5 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Shaq won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Duncan led 3 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Duncan won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Kobe led 2 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Kobe won 1 Title as the undisputed #1 / engine.

These are the titles that actually hold major value when comparing the Top GOAT's.
Even if Kobe does win again this year he will not be not be the #1 in terms of impact/value (D12) and he isn't a Super-Star anymore either.
Winning a Title as a #2 or #3 while playing at an All-Star level will not significantly enhance his career rankings.

It is basically just Kobe adding another All-Star level season... which adds some value to his career but not much.

mnatiq
08-19-2012, 12:54 PM
u dont have to be blind to know that ur a hater and are baiting (also bitter).

Hellcrooner
08-19-2012, 12:57 PM
COnsidering that not always the leader of the team gets finals mvp, Check lakers and celtics in the 80s or the spurs in the 00s, it doesnt really matter.


Anyway , Stern will give him the finals mvp regardless if he is worth it or not ( check 2010), because it makes more money for the league.

bric
08-19-2012, 12:58 PM
u dont have to be blind to know that ur a hater and are baiting (also bitter).

You don't have to be blind to know that your post added absolutely nothing of value to this thread

And I also said we would be having the same conversation about Lebron had he not got the Mvp

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 12:59 PM
It all depends on how important he was to the title run. You don't have to be the Finals MVP to be elevated by a title. Look at Scottie Pippen. His rings have infinately more value than the average player because he was critical to those teams winning the championship.

That being said, there is no chance in hell Kobe would let Dwight get a Finals MVP. He'll chuck his way to that award like he's stealin it from Gasol again.

bric
08-19-2012, 01:01 PM
COnsidering that not always the leader of the team gets finals mvp, Check lakers and celtics in the 80s or the spurs in the 00s, it doesnt really matter.


Anyway , Stern will give him the finals mvp regardless if he is worth it or not ( check 2010), because it makes more money for the league.

So kobe getting a finals Mvp magically makes the league more money?

Does anyone think before they post anymore?

Maybe if you said if he gets a ring jt will generate more money, but are you ready trying to say a finals Mvp generates more money for the nba So stern will give it to someone who doesn't deserve it for revenue ?

How exactly does a finals Mvp translate into money for the nba

LOL

Andrew32
08-19-2012, 01:07 PM
So kobe getting a finals Mvp magically makes the league more money?

Does anyone think before they post anymore?

Maybe if you said if he gets a ring jt will generate more money, but are you ready trying to say a finals Mvp generates more money for the nba So stern will give it to someone who doesn't deserve it for revenue ?

How exactly does a finals Mvp translate into money for the nba

LOL
Kobe is popular. He has many fans.

Building up his resume and making him look better excites his fans and makes them happy.
In turn this makes the league money.

It is the same reason the media drools all over Kobe's ba**s and was calling him the GOAT years ago and dissing much better past legends because they simply weren't as popular / relevant to the casual fan.

Not saying Kobe didn't have a reasonable case for 2010 FMVP but Gasol had a much better argument for the award.

He was better then Kobe over the 4 Wins and in the Key G7 where not only was he MVP but he carried the team in the final 3 minutes making big plays on both ends of the floor.


Lets look at how both Gasol and Kobe performed in the 4 Laker Wins (2010 Finalz)

Kobe
26.5 PPG
10 RPG
3.75 APG
37%FG
2 SPG

Gasol
19 PPG
14 RPG (6 Offensive Rebounds Per Game)
5 APG
46%FG
2.5 BPG

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 01:08 PM
If you take out FG% and show those numbers to 10 casual fans. All of them are goin with Kobe's 27-10-4-2

majmarcus
08-19-2012, 01:09 PM
The Mvp award is beyond crap!!!! Ask Kobe does he care??? Care to take a shot in the dark and guess what his answer will be????

The goods
08-19-2012, 01:09 PM
Kobe led 3 teams to the finals and has 2 as the undisputed leader I hate when people say gasol should've gotten the MVP against the Celtics Kobe had 1 bad game that whole, gasol had a couple.
Not to mention Kobe led the Lakers when we faces the nets in the finals and arguably did in 04 as well, was shaq dominate? Yes no question but he was also lazy,always injured,and was terrible at free throws.

Did magic when finals MVP every year? No do people care? No people only remember his 5 titles, and he's still the second greatest player ever, people just want to hold a grudge against Kobe and point out some small flaw and try to turn it into a big deal, at this point he needs CHAMPIONSHIPS nothing else matters.
If anything him letting Howard or Nash win finals MVP would boost his career,and make him look less selfish.

StarvingKnick22
08-19-2012, 01:10 PM
kobe, like Lebron, will win finals NBA because they are the center of the team. it has and will always revolve around him. even if he has done the fewest work, he'd still win it. thats just how it works.

xxplayerxx23
08-19-2012, 01:10 PM
:pity: I wonder of Kobe cares about finals MVP as much as the finals.

The goods
08-19-2012, 01:16 PM
Kobe is popular. He has many fans.

Building up his resume and making him look better excites his fans and makes them happy.
In turn this makes the league money.

It is the same reason the media drools all over Kobe's ba**s and was calling him the GOAT years ago and dissing much better past legends because they simply weren't as popular / relevant to the casual fan.

Not saying Kobe didn't have a reasonable case for 2010 FMVP but Gasol had a much better argument for the award.

He was better then Kobe over the 4 Wins and in the Key G7 where not only was he MVP but he carried the team in the final 3 minutes making big plays on both ends of the floor.

Going by your stats I'd still give it to Kobe, you can make a case for gasol but its all Kobe, gasol wasn't even a captain on that team Kobe and fisher were, plus your stats don't tell the whole story who was directing traffic,setting people up? Kobe gasol did his part as second fiddle but Kobe was no doubt that teams MVP.

The goods
08-19-2012, 01:18 PM
kobe, like Lebron, will win finals NBA because they are the center of the team. it has and will always revolve around him. even if he has done the fewest work, he'd still win it. thats just how it works.

It's not just them what about shaq during the 3 peat? Kobe earned one of those but shaq got them all because they go where shaq goes,the same case is made here.

Dade County
08-19-2012, 01:18 PM
Kobe is not going to get another championship ring with the lakers...

ps: Sorry Nash (NRN= No Ring Nash)

End/Thread

The goods
08-19-2012, 01:19 PM
:pity: I wonder of Kobe cares about finals MVP as much as the finals.

I doubt it he wants rings not finals mvps,you think jerry west cares about that finals MVP he got the year they didn't win a ring? Hell no!!

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-19-2012, 01:22 PM
Why is it that more and more of these types of posters join this site? I rarely get excited about a new poster because it seems like the new ones keep regergatating the same old crap that provides no true insight.

By the way, judging who was the teams best player by who won finals MVP is the most ******** thing I have heard today. But I just woke up a couple hours ago so there is still a chance some other noob will join the site to create an even dumber thread that has already been posted 1000 other times by our already too prevalent amount of posters who try to say Kobe is the only player in league history to win with help.

Andrew32
08-19-2012, 01:24 PM
It's not just them what about shaq during the 3 peat? Kobe earned one of those but shaq got them all because they go where shaq goes,the same case is made here.
No he didn't. Quit saying that.
You don't know your history dude.

Shaq 2002 Finals - 36.3 // 12.3 // 3.8apg // 3bpg --- 60 FG%
Not even mentioning the fact that the Nets were throwing half their team at Shaq trying to guard him in the post and they weren't even paying attention to Kobe on that end because of his offensive dominance.

Shaq was 15x better then anyone else in that series and there is no debate over who the FMVP was that year.

The goods
08-19-2012, 01:26 PM
Kobe is not going to get another championship ring with the lakers...

ps: Sorry Nash (NRN= No Ring Nash)

End/Thread

And why not because of the heat?

beliges
08-19-2012, 01:26 PM
I think winning another title will put him in the top 5 on the all time players list. Finals MVP would be great but winning one more means he would accomplish something only accomplished by MJ in the modern era of NBA basketball. I mean there have been many many great players that have come and gone during the past 50 years. But not one of them, outside of MJ, have been able to lead their team to 6 titles. It is a remarkable accomplishment. If the Lakers end up winning at least one more before Kobe retires, his career accomplishment would be up there with only MJ, Kareem and Russell.

The goods
08-19-2012, 01:30 PM
u
No he didn't. Quit saying that.
You don't know your history dude.

Shaq 2002 Finals - 36.3 // 12.3 // 3.8apg // 3bpg --- 60 FG%
Not even mentioning the fact that the Nets were throwing half their team at Shaq trying to guard him in the post and they weren't even paying attention to Kobe on that end because of his offensive dominance.

Shaq was 15x better then anyone else in that series and there is no debate over who the FMVP was that year.

Haha I don't know history who are you to tell me what know? I don't care about stats I care about what I see, and what I see is my opinion, and they didn't throw their team at Kobe either? Kidd, kittles,martin, and a few others were thrown at him as well, I'm just saying you can make a case for Kobe during that 3peat just like people are making a case for gasol during the back to back championships its not an open and shut case the way people like to try to make it out to be.

The goods
08-19-2012, 01:33 PM
I think winning another title will put him in the top 5 on the all time players list. Finals MVP would be great but winning one more means he would accomplish something only accomplished by MJ in the modern era of NBA basketball. I mean there have been many many great players that have come and gone during the past 50 years. But not one of them, outside of MJ, have been able to lead their team to 6 titles. It is a remarkable accomplishment. If the Lakers end up winning at least one more before Kobe retires, his career accomplishment would be up there with only MJ, Kareem and Russell.

Great point I think with one more he'll be the undisputed greatest Laker ever......well maybe I'm still a huge magic Johnson fan. Lol

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 01:35 PM
Finals MVP is a nice achievement but it's a flawed reward. There's so many important moments in the playoffs prior to just the Finals. Anybody can find a big mismatch in a 4 game sweep and steal the award from the more deserving and true leader of their team.

See: Parker, Tony

#1chickhearnfan
08-19-2012, 01:37 PM
I think winning another title will put him in the top 5 on the all time players list. Finals MVP would be great but winning one more means he would accomplish something only accomplished by MJ in the modern era of NBA basketball. I mean there have been many many great players that have come and gone during the past 50 years. But not one of them, outside of MJ, have been able to lead their team to 6 titles. It is a remarkable accomplishment. If the Lakers end up winning at least one more before Kobe retires, his career accomplishment would be up there with only MJ, Kareem and Russell.

Well said.

Dade County
08-19-2012, 01:38 PM
And why not because of the heat?

Because Kobe is not the same Kobe...

People see this but they just make up excuses.

Kobe time has come and past... he was great for a very long time, his fans should just let it go now.

If they get to a finals it will be because of team chemistry... Nash being Nash, Howard playing his HEART out on every single play, MWP hitting open 3 point shots (not going to happen), Lakers getting better bench players during the season... No key injuries.

I feel like it's going to be HEAT vs OKC or the Clippers ( Clippers entertainment reasons ).

Edit* They need Cp3 to resign back with Cash Cow Griffen or the Clippers will just fade away.

#1chickhearnfan
08-19-2012, 01:40 PM
Kobe is not going to get another championship ring with the lakers...

ps: Sorry Nash (NRN= No Ring Nash)

End/Thread

Is that what your crystal ball said.

Dade County
08-19-2012, 01:44 PM
Is that what your crystal ball said.

No man!!!

I took a peak at the script... remember NBA = Entertainment :nod:

king4day
08-19-2012, 01:44 PM
Kobe is not going to get another championship ring with the lakers...

ps: Sorry Nash (NRN= No Ring Nash)

End/Thread

Considering they've upgraded I don't see why they shouldn't be considered a real favorite for the ring.

Assuming you are stating that they won't beat the Heat should they meet in the finals, outside of Lebron, the Lakers have the Heat beat at each position now.

#1chickhearnfan
08-19-2012, 02:07 PM
If it doesn't go well for the big 4, I see lakers possibly moving pau at the trading deadline for J Smith perhaps.

Dade County
08-19-2012, 02:08 PM
Considering they've upgraded I don't see why they shouldn't be considered a real favorite for the ring.

Assuming you are stating that they won't beat the Heat should they meet in the finals, outside of Lebron, the Lakers have the Heat beat at each position now.

read 4 post up... I explained it:facepalm:

and :laugh: are you saying Kobe is better then Wade?

And Gasol at this point of his careers is better then Bosh...smh

StarvingKnick22
08-19-2012, 02:15 PM
Is that what your crystal ball said.

Damn. your sig ended to goddamn soon:cry:

StarvingKnick22
08-19-2012, 02:17 PM
It's not just them what about shaq during the 3 peat? Kobe earned one of those but shaq got them all because they go where shaq goes,the same case is made here.

bu kobe wasnt as big as he is know so...

BobbyHillSwag
08-19-2012, 02:20 PM
Is the op joking? players like to win rings period whether they are garbage or not. pretty sure winning the ring as an important piece matters alot to players. You must not understand how much work goes into winning a championship.

#1chickhearnfan
08-19-2012, 02:21 PM
Damn. your sig ended to goddamn soon:cry:


Haha yeah i know, Damn!

KnickaBocka.44
08-19-2012, 02:26 PM
read 4 post up... I explained it:facepalm:

and :laugh: are you saying Kobe is better then Wade?

And Gasol at this point of his carrier is better then Bosh...smh

....because someone proposing that Kobe is better than Wade is that ridiculous :confused:

You are like the result of inbreeding between DoMeFavors & JustinNum1

KnickaBocka.44
08-19-2012, 02:35 PM
If kobe comes back with his 6th ring and d12 gets finals Mvp or Gasol or someone else on the team, will it really matter?

Imo rings don't mean a ton when talking about superstars, finals Mvp do, that is the true measure of who is the best player in a championship team

When kobe had shaq, he never win a finals Mvp with him, therefore shaq's 4 rings and 3 finals Mvp >> > kobe's career

Mj has 6 rings and 6 finals Mvp so there is no question who is better between him and kobe

As it stands kobe has 5 rings with a measly 2 finals Mvp awards and lets not even discuss who his teams beat to win those titles : a one man team in the sixers, the new jersey nets without a superstar unless you considered Kidd one, the Orlando Magic who got to the finals by default due to Kevin garnett being injured that year(thus is indisputable, especially after the celtics beat them every year that kg was healthy after that year)

But alas, that is another story for another thread

As I'm trying to say, what does a 6th ring mean for kobe if he doesn't get his 3rd finals Mvp to go along with it? That he has the same amount as Robert Horry or something?

We would be having this same discussion if Wade got finals Mvp last year, lebron's ring would be pretty much meaningless

Anyways, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think finals Mvp are the be all end all, and not rings because they are the true measure of the best player on a championship team? Or do you think a ring is a ring regardless if you are the 4th or 1st best player on your team?


Basketball is a team sport. I'm sure Kobe would like to win another Finals MVP but that isn't the main goal. The goal is to win a Championship, thats all that matters...because basketball is a team sport. Kobe wouldnt have the opportunity to win the Finals MVP without the rest of his teammates so the individual awards are not as important.

You know what makes Kobe and Shaq so special as a duo? The fact that they hated eachother, but still found a way to work through it and achieve their ultimate goal. People don't realize that this attitude of putting stuff that doesn't matter aside, trusting your teammates, and focusing on a goal is what makes champions, not just play on the court and who puts up the best numbers.

Dade County
08-19-2012, 02:35 PM
....because someone proposing that Kobe is better than Wade is that ridiculous :confused:


Not ridiculous, just a blind Kobe/laker fan ( noting wrong with that, fan does stand for fanatic )



You are like the result of inbreeding between DoMeFavors & JustinNum1

Because I stated that Kobe is not getting another ring with the lakers ( and I explained WHY in a earlier post "pg 3" ) or because I think Wade is better then Kobe at this point of their careers?

or isn't because i am a HEAT fan that joined this website in 2010? This should be a good one to read.


And I hope to see your Knicks in teh ECF, like I have been predicting... feel the burn

JasonJohnHorn
08-19-2012, 02:36 PM
6 rings is 6 rings... who cares who wins the Bill Russell award?
It's like when Wade won it instead of Shaq. Everybody and their dog knew that without Shaq that team wouldn't have even got out of the first round of the playoffs. Wade scored a lot that series and got to the line, but Shaq's defence and rebounding were likely more important than Wade's scoring. But they give the finals MVP to whoever scored the most in most instances.

Look at Magic. Magic won five titles and he didn't win the finals MVP award every time. He only got it three times (Worthy and Kareem won two).

Kobe has nothing to prove. Even if he doesn't win another ring, he will retire with 5 and be considered the best SG of his generation and second best all time.

The finals MVP is nice to have, but you don't have to win it for people to know that your team couldnt have won without you.

And nobody thinks less of Duncan because Tony Parker won the finals MVP. Nor do the give any less love to David Robinson who didn't win any finals MVPs.

Dade County
08-19-2012, 02:45 PM
6 rings is 6 rings... who cares who wins the Bill Russell award?
It's like when Wade won it instead of Shaq. Everybody and their dog knew that without Shaq that team wouldn't have even got out of the first round of the playoffs. Wade scored a lot that series and got to the line, but Shaq's defence and rebounding were likely more important than Wade's scoring. But they give the finals MVP to whoever scored the most in most instances.

Morning says Hi...




Kobe has nothing to prove. Even if he doesn't win another ring, he will retire with 5 and be considered the best SG of his generation and second best all time.


I feel when Wade careers is over... He will be considered the 2nd best sg ever after Jordan; but only time will tell.

Avenged
08-19-2012, 02:47 PM
....... "what does a 6th ring mean for kobe if he doesn't get his 3rd finals Mvp to go along with it? That he has the same amount as Robert Horry or something?"

LLULL'z

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-19-2012, 02:53 PM
Jordan won 6 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Shaq led 5 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Shaq won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Duncan led 3 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Duncan won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Kobe led 2 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Kobe won 1 Title as the undisputed #1 / engine.

These are the titles that actually hold major value when comparing the Top GOAT's.
Even if Kobe does win again this year he will not be not be the #1 in terms of impact/value (D12) and he isn't a Super-Star anymore either.
Winning a Title as a #2 or #3 while playing at an All-Star level will not significantly enhance his career rankings.

It is basically just Kobe adding another All-Star level season... which adds some value to his career but not much.

Your hate for Kobe is pathetic let if go kid

BobbyHillSwag
08-19-2012, 02:54 PM
Morning says Hi...




I feel when Wade carrier is over... He will be considered the 2nd best sg ever after Jordan; but only time will tell.

Yea man I know what you are saying, I still think Iverson will be considered the 2nd best sg of all time but only time will tell :cool:




Iverson is far better than wade too so wade's punk *** aint got a chance

Huss-O-Lin
08-19-2012, 02:56 PM
Kobe bryant

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-19-2012, 02:58 PM
kobe, like Lebron, will win finals NBA because they are the center of the team. it has and will always revolve around him. even if he has done the fewest work, he'd still win it. thats just how it works.

That's the stupidest thing ever you can't win the finals MVP and not have an impact just because your popular lol this isn't the all-star game money you have to be the best player in that finals series to receive that award

KnickaBocka.44
08-19-2012, 03:01 PM
Not ridiculous, just a blind Kobe/laker fan ( noting wrong with that, fan does stand for fanatic )



Because I stated that Kobe is not getting another ring with the lakers ( and I explained WHY in a earlier post "pg 3" ) or because I think Wade is better then Kobe at this point of their carriers?

or isn't because i am a HEAT fan that joined this website in 2010? This should be a good one to read.


And I hope to see your Knicks in teh ECF, like I have been predicting... feel the burn

If it's not ridiculous then why the laughs when you ask if he means that he thinks Kobe is better? obviously that is his personal opinion, and any rational NBA fan would concede that they are pretty much equals at this point in their respective careers.

The reason for the comparison is your shortsighted, "homeristic" approach to being a Heat fan.

Huss-O-Lin
08-19-2012, 03:03 PM
Steve Nash or Mario Chalmers = Nash
Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade = Kobe
Metta World Elbow or LBJ = Lebron
Pau Gasol "leader of Spain" or Chris Bosh = Gasol
Dwight Howard or Joel Anthony = Dwight

It's lakers hands down doe

Huss-O-Lin
08-19-2012, 03:05 PM
Light up a blunt of some top notch Indo reefer "Kush preferably" & watch show time 2, LA Lake Show

StarvingKnick22
08-19-2012, 03:05 PM
That's the stupidest thing ever you can't win the finals MVP and not have an impact just because your popular lol this isn't the all-star game money you have to be the best player in that finals series to receive that award

yeah but its kobe. la would be pist off if he didnt win it

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-19-2012, 03:05 PM
Because Kobe is not the same Kobe...

People see this but they just make up excuses.

Kobe time has come and past... he was great for a very long time, his fans should just let it go now.

If they get to a finals it will be because of team chemistry... Nash being Nash, Howard playing his HEART out on every single play, MWP hitting open 3 point shots (not going to happen), Lakers getting better bench players during the season... No key injuries.

I feel like it's going to be HEAT vs OKC or the Clippers ( Clippers entertainment reasons ).

Edit* They need Cp3 to resign back with Cash Cow Griffen or the Clippers will just fade away.

Heat fans trolling lol

97NYer
08-19-2012, 03:07 PM
Jordan won 6 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Shaq led 5 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Shaq won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Duncan led 3 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Duncan won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Kobe led 2 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Kobe won 1 Title as the undisputed #1 / engine.

These are the titles that actually hold major value when comparing the Top GOAT's.
Even if Kobe does win again this year he will not be not be the #1 in terms of impact/value (D12) and he isn't a Super-Star anymore either.
Winning a Title as a #2 or #3 while playing at an All-Star level will not significantly enhance his career rankings.

It is basically just Kobe adding another All-Star level season... which adds some value to his career but not much.

They got there in 2008, 2009, and 2009. Was Pau the number one player at some point?

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-19-2012, 03:08 PM
read 4 post up... I explained it:facepalm:

and :laugh: are you saying Kobe is better then Wade?

And Gasol at this point of his carrier is better then Bosh...smh

Haha yes Kobe is better then wade(wade is so injury prone now and is already declining, he has no jump shot or post up game)

And gasol is the most skilled big in the league, Nash will make him a beast! Gasol>bosh

LakersSaintsLSU
08-19-2012, 03:09 PM
The point??? winning a ring!!!! OMG is this what it comes down to? i bet your just as old as your post count......ill answer "the point" to win a ring!!!...but hey since lebron plays with dwade whats the point? smgdh

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-19-2012, 03:11 PM
read 4 post up... I explained it:facepalm:

and :laugh: are you saying Kobe is better then Wade?

And Gasol at this point of his carrier is better then Bosh...smh


Morning says Hi...




I feel when Wade carrier is over... He will be considered the 2nd best sg ever after Jordan; but only time will tell.


Hahaha

LakersSaintsLSU
08-19-2012, 03:12 PM
Haha yes Kobe is better then wade(wade is so injury prone now and is already declining, he has no jump shot or post up game)

And gasol is the most skilled big in the league, Nash will make him a beast! Gasol>nash

So your saying wade is better then kobe?????:facepalm: o wait as i slowly look up the see your screen name......don't bother replying your brain only works to dethrone the greatest in the game(kobe) so your opinion means DO DO,o yea tell wade if kobe had lebron on his team they would have SWEPT the mavs,but thats the problem you heat fans have KOBE dosen't run to no one's team to get a ring either you come to l.a. or you miss out

KnickaBocka.44
08-19-2012, 03:14 PM
Steve Nash or Mario Chalmers = Nash
Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade = Kobe
Metta World Elbow or LBJ = Lebron
Pau Gasol "leader of Spain" or Chris Bosh = Gasol
Dwight Howard or Joel Anthony = Dwight

It's lakers hands down doe

This.

Even if you say that Wade/Kobe is a draw and Gasol/Bosh is a draw. Dwight and Nash are so far superior to their match ups its not even funny.

I think it would be a great series, but the flippant way in which Heat fans declare that it doesn't matter how much they improved just shows their ignorance.

Nash is the master orchestrator and makes every one of those players better than they already are. I wouldnt be surprised if MWP even showed a significant improvement over last years production.

Dwight is the ultimate enforcer at the rim and controls the glass. Next to another 7 footer, that could be scary. These are two areas that Miami, comparatively, is weak against the Lakers and they are 2 very big parts of the game.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-19-2012, 03:18 PM
So your saying wade is better then kobe?????:facepalm: o wait as i slowly look up the see your screen name......don't bother replying your brain only works to dethrone the greatest in the game(kobe) so your opinion means DO DO,o yea tell wade if kobe had lebron on his team they would have SWEPT the mavs,but thats the problem you heat fans have KOBE dosen't run to no one's team to get a ring either you come to l.a. or you miss out



Wait what the hell are u taking about? I said Kobe was better then wade and gasol>Bosh you must have messed up, you probably wanted to quote someone else

#1chickhearnfan
08-19-2012, 03:25 PM
The Lakers upgraded the starting five upgraded the bench, WHERE are the loop holes? The only advantage the heat have is LeBron.

Hangtime
08-19-2012, 03:25 PM
Some of you have a huge hard on for that MVP award. Kobe is 34 and he knows his career is slowly winding down. He already proved he could win it without Shaq at his side which was something he desperately wanted to do. And he could care less what any of you think about his second finals MVP award. All he wants are more titles before the sun sets on a great career. Stop trying to belittle the man's worth to his championships. You all act like he stood by and watched Shaq do 100% of all the work during the 3 peat. GTFO

LAcowBOMBER
08-19-2012, 03:27 PM
Kobe played as well if not better than Shaq in the playoffs for that last ring but Shaq won the finals MVP because he dominated a bunch of Terrible Nets big men

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-19-2012, 03:30 PM
He has a case for the 2nd championship as well in 2001

JordansBulls
08-19-2012, 03:33 PM
It all depends on how important he was to the title run. You don't have to be the Finals MVP to be elevated by a title. Look at Scottie Pippen. His rings have infinately more value than the average player because he was critical to those teams winning the championship.

That being said, there is no chance in hell Kobe would let Dwight get a Finals MVP. He'll chuck his way to that award like he's stealin it from Gasol again.
If they play Miami the only chance the Lakers have to win is if Dwight dominates. Kobe isn't going to outplay Lebron in a series or maybe not even Wade in one so for the Lakers to win Dwight will need to dominate.

Andrew32
08-19-2012, 04:02 PM
Kobe played as well if not better than Shaq in the playoffs for that last ring.
Are you kidding?
That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

Kobe wasn't even better then Prime Pippen in 2002 while Shaq was having one of the most dominant seasons ever and playing at a level only comparable to Prime Jordan / Kareem etc...

Kobe was just an All-Star that year... he was nothing special.
Shaq carried that team.

You think Kobe was better then Shaq before the Finals?
Lets see.

(2002 Playoff First 3 Rounds)
Shaq : 27 / 13 / 3apg / 2.5bpg on 55%TS
Kobe : 26 / 6 / 4.5apg / 1.5spg on 49%TS

Stats don't even take into account that Shaq was the teams defensive anchor and the one facing the double/triple teams while Kobe was facing mostly single coverage.

Shaq in the early 00's was having some of the most dominant/greatest seasons in the history of the game.
Kobe in 2000 and 2002 wasn't even on same level as Prime Pippen.

He was a sidekick to Shaq all 3 years, nothing more.
Kobe even at his absolute best wasn't even 1/10th the player Shaq was from 00-02.
Quit acting like they were comparable... pathetic homers.

Andrew32
08-19-2012, 04:07 PM
Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

Comparison Between Kobe/Gasol in 2010.

Regular Season PER / WShares
Gasol : 22.9 ||| 11
Kobe : 21.9 ||| 9.4

Playoff PER / WShares
Gasol : 24 ||| 4.7
Kobe : 24.7 ||| 3.6

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 04:22 PM
If they play Miami the only chance the Lakers have to win is if Dwight dominates. Kobe isn't going to outplay Lebron in a series or maybe not even Wade in one so for the Lakers to win Dwight will need to dominate.

He wouldn't need to outplay LeBron just outplay Dwight.

Example:

Kobe - 29ppg/8rpg/6apg on 42% fg
Dwight - 22ppg/11rpg/2bpg on 55% fg

That finals MVP is goin to Kobe.

LAcowBOMBER
08-19-2012, 04:33 PM
Are you kidding?
That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

Kobe wasn't even better then Prime Pippen in 2002 while Shaq was having one of the most dominant seasons ever and playing at a level only comparable to Prime Jordan / Kareem etc...

Kobe was just an All-Star that year... he was nothing special.
Shaq carried that team.

You think Kobe was better then Shaq before the Finals?
Lets see.

(2002 Playoff First 3 Rounds)
Shaq : 27 / 13 / 3apg / 2.5bpg on 55%TS
Kobe : 26 / 6 / 4.5apg / 1.5spg on 49%TS

Stats don't even take into account that Shaq was the teams defensive anchor and the one facing the double/triple teams while Kobe was facing mostly single coverage.

Shaq in the early 00's was having some of the most dominant/greatest seasons in the history of the game.
Kobe in 2000 and 2002 wasn't even on same level as Prime Pippen.

He was a sidekick to Shaq all 3 years, nothing more.
Kobe even at his absolute best wasn't even 1/10th the player Shaq was from 00-02.
Quit acting like they were comparable... pathetic homers.

Its funny that you act like those stats are drastically in Shaq"s favor. Also, can you actually recall those playoffs? Do you know what numbers Shaq put up in losses and what numbers he put up in wins?

The stats in the playoffs were not drastically different and you need to take in to account how each player affected the game. Don't throw out 1 advanced stats and act like its a landslide. And I'm not a homer, Shaq is the reason I got into basketball.

Kobe was the better player and handled the ball and controlled the game more than Shaq during the first 3 rounds. Shaq had one more point and a TS% only 6 points higher. Kobe had more assists, good rebound numbers for a 2 guard, and 1.5 steal which I'll take over 2.5 blocks because steals guarantee a change in possession.

The stats essentially are even though. I remember and have re-watched those playoffs. Kobe had the bigger impact in those games.

Also in 2001, I thought they were about even during the playoffs, but I have no problem with Shaq winning it then

And back on the topic of the thread, Finals MVPs mean little to me precisely because of these situations. Many times the two best teams play in the conference finals and not the Finals. Someone can win the finals MVP when beating maybe the third or fourth best team in the playoffs after a teammate was more important in beating the second best team in the league during the playoffs. The MVP should be for the entire playoffs

C-Style
08-19-2012, 04:35 PM
If kobe comes back with his 6th ring and d12 gets finals Mvp or Gasol or someone else on the team, will it really matter?

Imo rings don't mean a ton when talking about superstars, finals Mvp do, that is the true measure of who is the best player in a championship team

When kobe had shaq, he never win a finals Mvp with him, therefore shaq's 4 rings and 3 finals Mvp >> > kobe's career

Mj has 6 rings and 6 finals Mvp so there is no question who is better between him and kobe

As it stands kobe has 5 rings with a measly 2 finals Mvp awards and lets not even discuss who his teams beat to win those titles : a one man team in the sixers, the new jersey nets without a superstar unless you considered Kidd one, the Orlando Magic who got to the finals by default due to Kevin garnett being injured that year(thus is indisputable, especially after the celtics beat them every year that kg was healthy after that year)

But alas, that is another story for another thread

As I'm trying to say, what does a 6th ring mean for kobe if he doesn't get his 3rd finals Mvp to go along with it? That he has the same amount as Robert Horry or something?

We would be having this same discussion if Wade got finals Mvp last year, lebron's ring would be pretty much meaningless

Anyways, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think finals Mvp are the be all end all, and not rings because they are the true measure of the best player on a championship team? Or do you think a ring is a ring regardless if you are the 4th or 1st best player on your team?

contradictions :facepalm:

C-Style
08-19-2012, 04:49 PM
Anyway I can block Idiots like OP and Andrew32?

Andrew32
08-19-2012, 04:57 PM
Anyway I can block Idiots like OP and Andrew32?

Sure you can.
Don't let me stop you.

Sorry if I come down hard on Kobe but it sickens me to see people pushing revisionist history and acting like early 00's Kobe was anywhere near the same level as Peak Shaq and some even try to say he was more valuable... it is just absurd and complete bulls***.

I am not acting like Kobe wasn't a great player but he wasn't close to the player Shaq was and in 00 and 02 he was just an All-Star and no better then Prime Pippen.

Do you really think 00 / 02 Kobe is comparable to 91 Jordan, 00/01 Shaq etc...?

Shaq's 00 and 01 Playoff runs are Top 5 All-Time.
Kobe's 00 and 02 runs aren't even Top 50 All-Time and even his 01 run probably isn't Top 20-25... and could be much lower considering his role, inconsistency, competition and the context of that team.

Even 2001 Kobe was many Tiers below 00-02 Shaq in terms of production, consistency, impact and value.

So really... please just stop revising history and pushing bulls***.

juggla53
08-19-2012, 05:01 PM
Jordan won 6 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Shaq led 5 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Shaq won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Duncan led 3 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Duncan won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Kobe led 2 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Kobe won 1 Title as the undisputed #1 / engine.

These are the titles that actually hold major value when comparing the Top GOAT's.
Even if Kobe does win again this year he will not be not be the #1 in terms of impact/value (D12) and he isn't a Super-Star anymore either.
Winning a Title as a #2 or #3 while playing at an All-Star level will not significantly enhance his career rankings.

It is basically just Kobe adding another All-Star level season... which adds some value to his career but not much.

Kareem won six titles, and on five of those title teams he wasnt the number one option

im also curious as to which one of kobe's post shaq title teams he wasnt the number one option on? because in case you forgot he has been to three finals and and won two rings without shaq, unless you are trying to say somone other then kobe was the #1 option, in which case you should never talk about sports again

Andrew32
08-19-2012, 05:05 PM
Kareem won six titles, and on five of those title teams he wasnt the number one option

im also curious as to which one of kobe's post shaq title teams he wasnt the number one option on? because in case you forgot he has been to three finals and and won two rings without shaq, unless you are trying to say somone other then kobe was the #1 option, in which case you should never talk about sports again

Comparison Between Kobe/Gasol in 2010.

Regular Season PER / WShares
Gasol : 22.9 ||| 11
Kobe : 21.9 ||| 9.4

Playoff PER / WShares
Gasol : 24 ||| 4.7
Kobe : 24.7 ||| 3.6


Kobe was not the undisputed #1 / engine of his team in 2010.
Gasol was just as valuable to that title run and arguably the MVP of 2 playoff series (OKC/BOS) and tied for MVP against Utah.

Not saying Kobe wasn't the leader but in terms of actual play/impact/value he was not worth more then Gasol that year.

You bring up Kareem but you don't know me personally.
I don't even value Rings much when comparing players.
They are team accomplishments and are effected by too many things to hold much meaning when looking at individual players.

I judge players by playoff production/performances, consistency and longevity.
I take Rings into context but they usually don't mean much especially when you are comparing players who have both won alot.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-19-2012, 05:09 PM
Sure you can.
Don't let me stop you.

Sorry if I come down hard on Kobe but it sickens me to see people pushing revisionist history and acting like early 00's Kobe was anywhere near the same level as Peak Shaq and some even try to say he was more valuable... it is just absurd and complete bulls***.

I am not acting like Kobe wasn't a great player but he wasn't close to the player Shaq was and in 00 and 02 he was just an All-Star and no better then Prime Pippen.

Do you really think 00 / 02 Kobe is comparable to 91 Jordan, 00/01 Shaq etc...?

Shaq's 00 and 01 Playoff runs are Top 5 All-Time.
Kobe's 00 and 02 runs aren't even Top 50 All-Time and even his 01 run probably isn't Top 20-25... and could be much lower considering his role, inconsistency, competition and the context of that team.

Even 2001 Kobe was many Tiers below 00-02 Shaq in terms of production, consistency, impact and value.

So really... please just stop revising history and pushing bulls***.


Hahaha that says it all, Kobe hating!!

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-19-2012, 05:11 PM
Andrew32 you gotta feel for the guys he's a Kobe hating troll!
Just let it go nobodys cares what you think and quite frankly they probably don't care

Andrew32
08-19-2012, 05:12 PM
Hahaha that says it all, Kobe hating!!
Kobe hating?
What did I say that wasn't true?

Do you think Kobe's 00 or 02 Playoff runs are Top 50 All-Time? :facepalm:

00 Kobe = 21 / 4.5 / 4.5 on 51%TS (irrelevant for most of the Finals)
02 Kobe = 26 / 6 / 4.5 on 51%TS (48%TS prior to the Finals)

92 Pippen = 20 / 9 / 7 on 55%TS (much greater defensive impact then Kobe)

:)

All I see is that you cannot dispute anything I say so you just scream "Kobe hater".

I don't hate Kobe but I do dislike people who lie and push revisionist history in an attempt to overrate him and make him look much better then he actually was.
You are one of those people.

-Peace

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 05:55 PM
Kobe hating?
What did I say that wasn't true?

Do you think Kobe's 00 or 02 Playoff runs are Top 50 All-Time? :facepalm:

00 Kobe = 21 / 4.5 / 4.5 on 51%TS (irrelevant for most of the Finals)
02 Kobe = 26 / 6 / 4.5 on 51%TS (48%TS prior to the Finals)

92 Pippen = 20 / 9 / 7 on 55%TS (much greater defensive impact then Kobe)

:)

All I see is that you cannot dispute anything I say so you just scream "Kobe hater".

I don't hate Kobe but I do dislike people who lie and push revisionist history in an attempt to overrate him and make him look much better then he actually was.
You are one of those people.

-Peace

How valuable is it if you're not the #1 guy? It devalues the careers of so many players to skew it by this bizarre "#1 engine" label.

Andrew32
08-19-2012, 06:07 PM
How valuable is it if you're not the #1 guy? It devalues the careers of so many players to skew it by this bizarre "#1 engine" label.
I don't devalue anyone.
I judge Kobe by his individual play and impact.

Like I said Rings mean very little to me in player comparisons and when I make my GOAT list.

Kobe played like a low-mid level All-Star in 00 and I give him that credit.

Kobe arguably played like a low-mid level Super-Star in 01 and I give him that credit.

Kobe played like a mid-high level All-Star in 02 and I give him that credit.

It doesn't matter how much credit you think he deserved for the title itself.
Not to me it doesn't anyway.

One must take into account roles and circumstance though.

Kobe was not the offensive anchor on those teams and thanks to Shaq's offensive dominance he rarely had to face double teams and the lanes were usually kept clear for him.

I do not see him being as successful on his own... not back then.
So even though that may not make a huge difference to me when I judge his ability/impact in those seasons I do take it into account.

Dade County
08-19-2012, 06:27 PM
If it's not ridiculous then why the laughs when you ask if he means that he thinks Kobe is better? obviously that is his personal opinion, and any rational NBA fan would concede that they are pretty much equals at this point in their respective careers..

They are nowhere near equal at this point of their carrier... Kobe is nowhere near the same kobe of 4yrs ago.

I am tired of people over valuing Kobe ... He was GRAET, lets leave it at that.



The reason for the comparison is your shortsighted, "homeristic" approach to being a Heat fan.

Noting to do with me being a HEAT fan... I am a realist, you are judging kobe by his past merits.

Wade is superior to Kobe at this point of their careers. Thats a fact...check all the numbers, perform the eyeball test (lol) watch the damn games.

juggla53
08-19-2012, 07:48 PM
I don't devalue anyone.
I judge Kobe by his individual play and impact.

Like I said Rings mean very little to me in player comparisons and when I make my GOAT list.

Kobe played like a low-mid level All-Star in 00 and I give him that credit.

Kobe arguably played like a low-mid level Super-Star in 01 and I give him that credit.

Kobe played like a mid-high level All-Star in 02 and I give him that credit.

It doesn't matter how much credit you think he deserved for the title itself.
Not to me it doesn't anyway.

One must take into account roles and circumstance though.

Kobe was not the offensive anchor on those teams and thanks to Shaq's offensive dominance he rarely had to face double teams and the lanes were usually kept clear for him.

I do not see him being as successful on his own... not back then.
So even though that may not make a huge difference to me when I judge his ability/impact in those seasons I do take it into account.

yes because what matter to YOU is the ultimate judgement in how a player is viewed throughout their career

kblo247
08-19-2012, 09:51 PM
:pity: I wonder of Kobe cares about finals MVP as much as the finals.

Kobe's "goal" when he was introduced in 96 was to play in 10 NBA Finals series. Jerry West even says he promised the team would play for at least 10 titles during the initial workout if they got him.

He's at 7

Things can change but that was 17-18 year old Kobe's initial goal entering the league

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-19-2012, 10:11 PM
I don't devalue anyone.
I judge Kobe by his individual play and impact.

Like I said Rings mean very little to me in player comparisons and when I make my GOAT list.

Kobe played like a low-mid level All-Star in 00 and I give him that credit.

Kobe arguably played like a low-mid level Super-Star in 01 and I give him that credit.

Kobe played like a mid-high level All-Star in 02 and I give him that credit.

It doesn't matter how much credit you think he deserved for the title itself.
Not to me it doesn't anyway.

One must take into account roles and circumstance though.

Kobe was not the offensive anchor on those teams and thanks to Shaq's offensive dominance he rarely had to face double teams and the lanes were usually kept clear for him.

I do not see him being as successful on his own... not back then.
So even though that may not make a huge difference to me when I judge his ability/impact in those seasons I do take it into account.

You speak as if Shaquille made Kobe's stat accumulation easy. Why did Kobe's numbers get better once Shaq left? From PER to WS/48 to TS%?

Why do you say that Kobe benifitted from not being the number one option, because the other team was trying to stop Shaq, and make no mention of how Gasol benifitted off Kobe being the number one option? Skewed perception perhaps?

Do you ever pay attention to what Kobe does for his teammates and especially his bigs? Check each of his bigs numbers before they played with Kobe. then check what he does for all the other guys. For some reason, his teammates PER, WS's, and TS% all rise. Look what Gasol was before he came to the Lakers, then look at his numbers after. Shaqs best years of his career were out of his physical prime. But they did coincide with the time Kobe started to get big minutes. Even Lamar had his best season with Kobe. It seems to me that Shaq Odom, and Gasol have Kobe to thank for their production being as great as it was because they had never shown that type of capability before they played with Bryant

NBAfan4life
08-19-2012, 10:18 PM
....... "what does a 6th ring mean for kobe if he doesn't get his 3rd finals Mvp to go along with it? That he has the same amount as Robert Horry or something?"

LLULL'z

This

I was actually writing something similar and then said forget. Never has Kobe been to a finals where he wasn't extremely important to his team.

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-19-2012, 10:22 PM
They are nowhere near equal at this point of their carrier... Kobe is nowhere near the same kobe of 4yrs ago.

I am tired of people over valuing Kobe ... He was GRAET, lets leave it at that.



Noting to do with me being a HEAT fan... I am a realist, you are judging kobe by his past merits.

Wade is superior to Kobe at this point of their carriers. Thats a fact...check all the numbers, perform the eyeball test (lol) watch the damn games.

llullz

Dade County
08-19-2012, 10:31 PM
llullz

Thanks for pointing that out... my bad.

It's going to be a long season, and many NBA fans have hope that their team might just win it all... Okay, maybe like 5 teams.

evadatam5150
08-20-2012, 12:15 AM
Jordan won 6 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Shaq led 5 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Shaq won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Duncan led 3 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Duncan won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Kobe led 2 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Kobe won 1 Title as the undisputed #1 / engine.

These are the titles that actually hold major value when comparing the Top GOAT's.
Even if Kobe does win again this year he will not be not be the #1 in terms of impact/value (D12) and he isn't a Super-Star anymore either.
Winning a Title as a #2 or #3 while playing at an All-Star level will not significantly enhance his career rankings.

It is basically just Kobe adding another All-Star level season... which adds some value to his career but not much.

Kobe isn't a Superstar anymore..??? Where did you hear this...?? Pretty debatable.. He may not be the same player he was 5 seasons ago but he's still an MVP contender, all defensive team selection, and a top 3 scorer year in and year out.. I'd really love to hear what your criteria is for a Superstar..

Raph12
08-20-2012, 12:22 AM
Ask DWade...

knightstemplar
08-20-2012, 06:09 AM
COnsidering that not always the leader of the team gets finals mvp, Check lakers and celtics in the 80s or the spurs in the 00s, it doesnt really matter.


Anyway , Stern will give him the finals mvp regardless if he is worth it or not ( check 2010), because it makes more money for the league.
2010 Finals average
Kobe: 29-8-4-2-1 on 52.8 TS%
Pau: 19-12-4-1-3 on 55.6 TS%

Road Games:

Game 3
Kobe: 29-7-4-2-3 on 45 TS%
Pau: 13-10-4-0-2 on 48 TS%

Game 4
Kobe: 33-6-2-2-0 on 65 TS%
Pau: 21-6-3-0-2 on 60 TS%

Game 5
Kobe: 38-5-4-1-1 on 61 TS%
Pau: 12-12-0-2-0 on 45 TS%

And lets remember that Kobe was the one getting tripled and doubled teamed by the Cs defense. They focused their Defense on him.

Kobe won the award and deserved the award.

knightstemplar
08-20-2012, 06:15 AM
Jordan won 6 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Shaq led 5 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Shaq won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Duncan led 3 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Duncan won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Kobe led 2 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Kobe won 1 Title as the undisputed #1 / engine.

These are the titles that actually hold major value when comparing the Top GOAT's.
Even if Kobe does win again this year he will not be not be the #1 in terms of impact/value (D12) and he isn't a Super-Star anymore either.
Winning a Title as a #2 or #3 while playing at an All-Star level will not significantly enhance his career rankings.

It is basically just Kobe adding another All-Star level season... which adds some value to his career but not much.
2007-08
Kobe: NBA MVP, All-Star, All-NBA 1st Team, All-Defensive 1st Team.
Pau: Not a single MVP vote. Nothing.

2008-09
Kobe: 2nd in MVP voting, All-Star, All-NBA 1st Team, All-Defensive 1st Team, NBA Finals MVP.
Pau: Not a single MVP vote. All-Star, All-NBA 3rd Team.

2009-10
Kobe: 3rd in MVP voting, All-Star, All-NBA 1st Team, All-Defensive 1st Team, NBA Finals MVP.
Pau: Not a single MVP vote. All-Star, All-NBA 3rd Team.

Let me fix for you

Kobe led 3 Teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine.
Kobe won 2 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

RaiderLakersA's
08-20-2012, 10:57 AM
If kobe comes back with his 6th ring and d12 gets finals Mvp or Gasol or someone else on the team, will it really matter?

Imo rings don't mean a ton when talking about superstars, finals Mvp do, that is the true measure of who is the best player in a championship team

When kobe had shaq, he never win a finals Mvp with him, therefore shaq's 4 rings and 3 finals Mvp >> > kobe's career

Mj has 6 rings and 6 finals Mvp so there is no question who is better between him and kobe

As it stands kobe has 5 rings with a measly 2 finals Mvp awards and lets not even discuss who his teams beat to win those titles : a one man team in the sixers, the new jersey nets without a superstar unless you considered Kidd one, the Orlando Magic who got to the finals by default due to Kevin garnett being injured that year(thus is indisputable, especially after the celtics beat them every year that kg was healthy after that year)

But alas, that is another story for another thread

As I'm trying to say, what does a 6th ring mean for kobe if he doesn't get his 3rd finals Mvp to go along with it? That he has the same amount as Robert Horry or something?

We would be having this same discussion if Wade got finals Mvp last year, lebron's ring would be pretty much meaningless

Anyways, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think finals Mvp are the be all end all, and not rings because they are the true measure of the best player on a championship team? Or do you think a ring is a ring regardless if you are the 4th or 1st best player on your team?

I disagree with your premise. You don't have to be the Finals MVP in order for the ring to have significance. Just ask Magic. Or Shaq.

JordansBulls
08-20-2012, 11:28 AM
He wouldn't need to outplay LeBron just outplay Dwight.

Example:

Kobe - 29ppg/8rpg/6apg on 42% fg
Dwight - 22ppg/11rpg/2bpg on 55% fg

That finals MVP is goin to Kobe.

If those are the numbers Dwight would get it.