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View Full Version : Greatest starting 5 of all time... 2004 Detroit Pistons..



Denero718305
08-18-2012, 09:36 PM
At that time arguably had a top 5 player at every position ...

Pg......Billups

Sg....... Rip

Sf........Prince

Pf........Sheed

C........ Ben

Thoughts?

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-18-2012, 09:54 PM
llullz

Avenged
08-18-2012, 09:55 PM
llull is correct.

Hellcrooner
08-18-2012, 09:55 PM
Magic, Scott, Worthy, Ac Green, Kareem

or

Magic, Nixon, Wilkes, Kutchap, Kareem.


Or any of the 60s celtics starting 5s.

or etc etc etc.
Just close thread.

Denero718305
08-18-2012, 09:57 PM
llullz

Huh?

Gators123
08-18-2012, 09:57 PM
I like this guy...

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-18-2012, 09:58 PM
Huh?

You're Welcome. ;)

Deception
08-18-2012, 09:58 PM
2011 Bobcats

Denero718305
08-18-2012, 10:04 PM
You're Welcome. ;)

You got the juice now.........

XpLiCiTT
08-18-2012, 10:05 PM
Agreed, definitely the greatest starting 5 of all time.

LionsFan..LOL
08-18-2012, 10:06 PM
I like this guy...

Me too lol

StarvingKnick22
08-18-2012, 10:11 PM
Bobcats. since they were created.

Chronz
08-18-2012, 10:19 PM
Gimme the 91 Bulls

JordansBulls
08-18-2012, 10:19 PM
Hell no they weren't. Only player that was even an allstar at the time was Ben Wallace.

fadedmario
08-18-2012, 10:19 PM
Greatest? no.

Underrated? yes.

That team was nasty.

Most teams had a hard time scoring 70 points against that team.

Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace in their prime were really something special..

fadedmario
08-18-2012, 10:21 PM
Look at the score in the closeout game 5. Yikes -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNqaB0V3v_o&feature=related

fadedmario
08-18-2012, 10:23 PM
People are quick to forget that the media said Pistons stood no chance of even winning a game in that series and that the Lakers would destroy them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC7FM3NUaAU&feature=related

meloman1592
08-18-2012, 10:27 PM
Might not be the most talented starting 5, but probably the most cohesive starting 5 I've ever seen

Denero718305
08-18-2012, 10:27 PM
Gimme the 91 Bulls


Chauncey, Sheed, Ben>>>>>>>>>> Armstrong, Grant, Cartwright

dee279
08-18-2012, 10:29 PM
Gimme the 91 Bulls

Lol. Could literally look at your sig all day.

fadedmario
08-18-2012, 10:36 PM
Might not be the most talented starting 5, but probably the most cohesive starting 5 I've ever seen

Good post. I agree 100%.

That team was also tied in the Finals with the Spurs going into a 4th quarter in game 7 the following year.

They were extremely close to being back to back champs.

Still a really impressive team nonetheless.

Gators123
08-18-2012, 10:37 PM
Greatest? no.

Underrated? yes.

That team was nasty.

Most teams had a hard time scoring 70 points against that team.

Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace in their prime were really something special..

:nod:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZvj9d0-z4Y

StarvingKnick22
08-18-2012, 10:39 PM
computer, show me every laker team ever!

fadedmario
08-18-2012, 10:41 PM
:nod:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZvj9d0-z4Y

Nasty.

Denero718305
08-18-2012, 10:42 PM
Greatest? no.

Underrated? yes.

That team was nasty.

Most teams had a hard time scoring 70 points against that team.

Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace in their prime were really something special..

Then who??

fadedmario
08-18-2012, 10:45 PM
Then who??

I just looked at all the Championship rosters since 1980.

You're right.

If they arent the best starting 5 - there really isn't a clear-cut team better than them if you consider all 5 players.

Good luck to anyone that finds a legit #1 that people can agree on.

Kyben36
08-18-2012, 10:52 PM
Id actualy argue they have the worse team to win championship, im sorry, but Billups was your best player, and in no way is billups at any time in his carear a #1 option, they won through defense and teamwork, and while thats all fine and dandy, on paper, they look awful.

Chronz
08-18-2012, 10:55 PM
Chauncey, Sheed, Ben>>>>>>>>>> Armstrong, Grant, Cartwright
Grant is arguable. And Im talking about the starting lineup, which includes MJ and Pip. I meant to put down the 92 team

Lakerhead4ever
08-18-2012, 10:56 PM
as someone who literally shed tears because of that team, i will say they were a great team, offensively but defensively they were unbelievable.

but the greatest staring five? sorry but no. there are teams who didnt win a championship who had a better staring five than them.

PAOboston
08-18-2012, 10:58 PM
1985 celtics says hello.

johnson-ainge-bird-mchale-parish. 6th man- walton

but i do love that pistons team. extremely underrated but extremely talented.

fadedmario
08-18-2012, 11:00 PM
Id actualy argue they have the worse team to win championship, im sorry, but Billups was your best player, and in no way is billups at any time in his carear a #1 option, they won through defense and teamwork, and while thats all fine and dandy, on paper, they look awful.

:facepalm:

You're wrong.

1a Ben Wallace
1b Rasheed Wallace
3 Chauncey Billups
4 Richard Hamilton
5 Tayshaun Prince

They were a defensive team, not showtime. lol

Denero718305
08-18-2012, 11:01 PM
Id actualy argue they have the worse team to win championship, im sorry, but Billups was your best player, and in no way is billups at any time in his carear a #1 option, they won through defense and teamwork, and while thats all fine and dandy, on paper, they look awful.


Really??

Chauncey 17ppg

Rip 19ppg

Prince 14.5ppg

Sheed 15ppg 9rpg

Ben 10ppg 12.4rpg

Not to mention they could guard every position man to man.... Heck Ben guarded shaq man to man in the finals.. Im just saying.

Alayla
08-18-2012, 11:06 PM
Those guys all became good later on by no means where they top 5 at the time at all of there positions if they would have lost to la wed be talking about them in a totally different light

Denero718305
08-18-2012, 11:12 PM
Grant is arguable. And Im talking about the starting lineup, which includes MJ and Pip. I meant to put down the 92 team

92 team is the same starting 5.. Obviously the bulls had the GOAT but as far as 5on5....

Chauncey>>>>>>>Armstrong

Rip<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Jordan

Prince<Pippen

Sheed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Grant

Ben>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cartwright

fadedmario
08-18-2012, 11:13 PM
Those guys all became good later on by no means where they top 5 at the time at all of there positions if they would have lost to la wed be talking about them in a totally different light

:facepalm:

If they would have lost? The Lakers were destroyed in that series.

That was one of the worst beatdowns in Finals history.

If they would have lost...

Done in five and Lakers were embarrassed.

Lakersfan2483
08-18-2012, 11:14 PM
To the OP, not even close buddy, try again. Starting 5's that are clearly better are the 96 Bulls, 86 Celtics, 85 Lakers, 87 Lakers, 92 Bulls, 98 Celtics, 2010 Lakers, 84 Sixers, 67 Wilt led Sixers team and any of the old Russell led Celtic lineups that won multiple titles.

Denero718305
08-18-2012, 11:33 PM
To the OP, not even close buddy, try again. Starting 5's that are clearly better are the 96 Bulls, 86 Celtics, 85 Lakers, 87 Lakers, 92 Bulls, 98 Celtics, 2010 Lakers, 84 Sixers, 67 Wilt led Sixers team and any of the old Russell led Celtic lineups that won multiple titles.

96 Bullls Longley and harper
92 Bulls grant,armstrong, cartwright
2010 Lakers fisher and bynum
98 Celtics lol really????? mercer, barros,battie,vitaly potepenko
84 Sixers mo cheeks, young barkley
87Lakers ac green
86 Celtics ainge
I would take the 2004 pistons players at each position listed above... I will give you the 85 lakers for the argument ... Wasn't around for the 60's sorry.... There is a diffrence between greatest starting 5 and greatest team... I am talking about top to bottom, mano-a-mano baby. Who you got??

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 12:27 AM
Lol to all the people naming teams from the 60's as if they watched them.... I mean come on Bll Russell was 6"8 215lbs at center... That is tayshaun prince today at sf :facepalm:

raidersrock99
08-19-2012, 12:38 AM
ya no

Kashmir13579
08-19-2012, 12:40 AM
I like this thread! Discuss!

Pierzynski4Prez
08-19-2012, 12:40 AM
92 team is the same starting 5.. Obviously the bulls had the GOAT but as far as 5on5....

Chauncey>>>>>>>Armstrong

Rip<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Jordan

Prince<Pippen

Sheed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Grant

Ben>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cartwright

lolwut

Cal827
08-19-2012, 12:41 AM
:facepalm:

If they would have lost? The Lakers were destroyed in that series.

That was one of the worst beatdowns in Finals history.

If they would have lost...

Done in five and Lakers were embarrassed.

:laugh: I remember that series so much.

the "5-game sweep" was one of the best moments in NBA history.

#1chickhearnfan
08-19-2012, 12:41 AM
yes yes yes Discuss Please!

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 12:51 AM
:lift:

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 12:57 AM
Prince<Pippen...lolwut

Career Averages ........

Pippen 16ppg as the 2nd option

Prince 13ppg as the 4th option

toovey107
08-19-2012, 01:06 AM
lolwut?

b@llhog24
08-19-2012, 01:38 AM
2008 Celtics

--23--
08-19-2012, 01:40 AM
Greatest starting 5 of all time, No...One of the greatest starting 5, Yes. I like 08' Celtics and 05' Spurs starting 5 more.

08' Celtics
Rondo
Ray
Pierce
KG
Perk

05 Spurs
Parker
Ginobili
Bowen
Duncan
Nazr Mohammed

03' Spurs ain't that bad either
Parker
Bowen
Jackson
Duncan
Robinson

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 01:51 AM
Greatest starting 5 of all time, No...One of the greatest starting 5, Yes. I like 08' Celtics and 05' Spurs starting 5 more.

08' Celtics
Rondo
Ray
Pierce
KG
Perk

05 Spurs
Parker
Ginobili
Bowen
Duncan
Nazr Mohammed

03' Spurs ain't that bad either
Parker
Bowen
Jackson
Duncan
Robinson

Rondo and Perk at that time were NOT better then Chauncey and Ben. Not even close...
Nazir and Bowen???? :facepalm:

--23--
08-19-2012, 02:04 AM
Rondo and Perk at that time were NOT better then Chauncey and Ben..
Nazir and Bowen???? :facepalm:

:facepalm: Rondo and Perk was not bums either, And you do know that 05 Spurs team beat that Pistons team in the Finals? Nazir would be defender Ben Wallace, You do know Ben Wallace is not a offensive player? You do know Bowen is basically the same defensive as Prince? You're acting like Ben Wallace and Prince were offensive juggernauts that couldn't be defended.

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 02:13 AM
:facepalm: Rondo and Perk was not bums either, And you do know that 05 Spurs team beat that Pistons team in the Finals? Nazir would be defender Ben Wallace, You do know Ben Wallace is not a offensive player? You do know Bowen is basically the same defensive as Prince? You're acting like Ben Wallace and Prince were offensive juggernauts that couldn't be defended.

All that said.. Ben>> Nazir..........Prince>>Bowen.......Chauncey, Ben>> Perk,Rondo (at that time).. And you know it to. Sheed in 05 was injured, started to slow down a bit.. Spurs went 7 to beat them. Series could have went either way.

Lakersfan2483
08-19-2012, 02:23 AM
96 Bullls Longley and harper
92 Bulls grant,armstrong, cartwright
2010 Lakers fisher and bynum
98 Celtics lol really????? mercer, barros,battie,vitaly potepenko
84 Sixers mo cheeks, young barkley
87Lakers ac green
86 Celtics ainge
I would take the 2004 pistons players at each position listed above... I will give you the 85 lakers for the argument ... Wasn't around for the 60's sorry.... There is a diffrence between greatest starting 5 and greatest team... I am talking about top to bottom, mano-a-mano baby. Who you got??

I meant the 08 Celtics.

--23--
08-19-2012, 02:28 AM
All that said.. Ben>> Nazir..........Prince>>Bowen.......Chauncey, Ben>> Perk,Rondo (at that time).. And you know it to. Sheed in 05 was injured, started to slow down a bit.. Spurs went 7 to beat them. Series could have went either way.


If you want to play that game

08' Celtics vs 04' Pistons
Rondo < Billups
Ray > Rip
Pierce > Prince
KG > Sheed
Perk < Ben

Celtics Win

05' Spurs vs 04' Pistons
Parker = Billups
Ginobili > Rip
Bowen = Prince
Duncan > Sheed
Nazr Mohammed < Wallace

Spurs Win

eternal slumber
08-19-2012, 02:48 AM
At that time arguably had a top 5 player at every position ...

Pg......Billups

Sg....... Rip

Sf........Prince

Pf........Sheed

C........ Ben

Thoughts?


maybe one of the best DEFENSIVE starting 5 of all time, you can make this point about them but absolutely NOT the best starting line-up of all time, not even close.

GunFactor187
08-19-2012, 02:49 AM
Me too lol

Me three, lol.

Lakersfan2483
08-19-2012, 02:52 AM
Better starting 5's. I would take these starters over the 04 Pistons' starters without question.

87 Lakers- Magic Johnson, Byron Scott, James Worthy, A.C. Green, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

85 Lakers- Magic Johnson, Byron Scott, James Worthy, Kurt Rambis, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

86 Celtics- Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Larry Bird, Kevin Mchale, Robert Parrish

08 Celtics- Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Kendrick Perkins

Lakersfan2483
08-19-2012, 03:00 AM
83 Sixers

Mo Cheeks
A. Toney
Dr. J
Ivaroni
M. Malone

You have 3 guys in Malone, Dr. J and Toney all shooting over 50 pct and scoring over 20 plus a night. Mo Cheeks also put up double digit scoring and 7 assists per night.

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 03:30 AM
If you want to play that game

08' Celtics vs 04' Pistons
Rondo < Billups
Ray > Rip
Pierce > Prince
KG > Sheed
Perk < Ben

Celtics Win

05' Spurs vs 04' Pistons
Parker = Billups
Ginobili > Rip
Bowen = Prince
Duncan > Sheed
Nazr Mohammed < Wallace

Spurs Win

Celtics maybe... Ray and Rip could be debated (at that time) Because Rip could shoot just as good as Ray (besides 3's of course) and he was a way better defender then Ray. Im sorry bro, i will not give you Bowen being equal to Prince.. While Bowen was a better man to man defender tayshaun could guard positions 1-4 and rebound... On offense not even a debate Tayshaun used to bring up the ball at the point at times.. Could post you up and had a decent jumper from mid range and beyond.. Bowen use to eat, sleep, and defecate on the baseline 3point area.. and that is about it.. Spurs??:no:

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 03:42 AM
Better starting 5's. I would take these starters over the 04 Pistons' starters without question.

87 Lakers- Magic Johnson, Byron Scott, James Worthy, A.C. Green, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

85 Lakers- Magic Johnson, Byron Scott, James Worthy, Kurt Rambis, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

86 Celtics- Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Larry Bird, Kevin Mchale, Robert Parrish

08 Celtics- Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Kendrick Perkins

87Lakers Ac green<<<< Sheed
86 Celtics Ainge<<<< Rip
85 Lakers Rambis<<<< Sheed
08 Celtics Rondo,Perkins, and Allen<<<<<Billups,Ben,and Rip.. On offense Ray was just a better 3 point shooter.. Rip was a better scorer. Not to mention he was a monster on defense. Ray Allen?? meh.You have to realize what i am talking about. At each position they had no weak links. Could guard you man to man with no help. And had 4 dynamic scorers.. As far as offense defense they are the most balanced team
Explain how i am wrong??:eyebrow:

JoyRide
08-19-2012, 04:56 AM
Lol to all the people naming teams from the 60's as if they watched them.... I mean come on Bll Russell was 6"8 215lbs at center... That is tayshaun prince today at sf :facepalm:

isn't this is about the GREATEST OF ALL TIME ? why teams from the 60's can't be named?
also what's the point about Bill Russell's size? that doesn't change the fact that he was dominating the C position in his era ( along with Chamberlain) . did Tayshaun Prince dominated in the sf position ever?

--23--
08-19-2012, 05:05 AM
Celtics maybe... Ray and Rip could be debated (at that time) Because Rip could shoot just as good as Ray (besides 3's of course) and he was a way better defender then Ray. Im sorry bro, i will not give you Bowen being equal to Prince.. While Bowen was a better man to man defender tayshaun could guard positions 1-4 and rebound... On offense not even a debate Tayshaun used to bring up the ball at the point at times.. Could post you up and had a decent jumper from mid range and beyond.. Bowen use to eat, sleep, and defecate on the baseline 3point area.. and that is about it.. Spurs??:no:

Ray vs Rip is not debatable, as a 3rd option Ray was averaging numbers similar to Rip who was the Pistons leading scorer that season with 17.6 ppg. Ray is better than Rip.

As for Prince, yes he could guard multiple positions. If you didn't know Bowen can guard the 1-3 position also. So there is no point in bringing that up in this team matchup. Both guys will more likely cancel each other out, it's not like Tayshaun Prince will have his way against Bowen lol, He didn't do it in the finals meeting against the Spurs.

You can check the numbers your self
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200506090SAS.html

DR_1
08-19-2012, 09:37 AM
97 Bulls obviously

jp611
08-19-2012, 09:43 AM
The teams with Michael Jordan on them

Mr.ATLHawks
08-19-2012, 09:48 AM
People are quick to forget that the media said Pistons stood no chance of even winning a game in that series and that the Lakers would destroy them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC7FM3NUaAU&feature=related

That was the year the Kobe/Shaq feud spilled into the Finals and Kobe acted like a little B**** all series. Greatest 5 of all time yet the one championship...I doubt it...Where the good? Yes? But even top 5 great??? Hell no...

BobbyHillSwag
08-19-2012, 10:04 AM
It's funny because richard hamilton wasnt even close to top 5 player or billups at their position. Hell Im not sure if prince was either. To each their own though.

BklynKnicks3
08-19-2012, 10:11 AM
this thread should be called worst starting 5 to win a championship

Heediot
08-19-2012, 10:16 AM
Not even close.

Bulls in '96. 72 regular season wins and only 3 playoff loses.

rocket
08-19-2012, 10:23 AM
It's funny because richard hamilton wasnt even close to top 5 player or billups at their position. Hell Im not sure if prince was either. To each their own though.

Billups wasn't top 5 at his position?

BklynKnicks3
08-19-2012, 10:30 AM
taht finals wasnt lakers piston it was kobe vs shaq only reason pistons won

naps
08-19-2012, 10:36 AM
Hell NO.

But that was one of the finest defensive teams of all time. A complete defensive juggernaut.

RipCity32
08-19-2012, 10:38 AM
taht finals wasnt lakers piston it was kobe vs shaq only reason pistons won

Are you really that stupid?

naps
08-19-2012, 10:38 AM
this thread should be called worst starting 5 to win a championship


taht finals wasnt lakers piston it was kobe vs shaq only reason pistons won

Is this guy serious?

IndyRealist
08-19-2012, 11:30 AM
'92 Suns were awesome, one of the best to not win a championship. Kevin Johnson, Cedric Ceballos, Dan Marjerle, Charles Barkley in his prime.

'96 Rockets with Hakeem, Barkley, Drexler, and Mario Elie.

'00 Pacers with Reggie Miller, Mark Jackson, Jalen Rose, Rik Smits, and Dale Davis was awesome to see in person.

JasonJohnHorn
08-19-2012, 11:32 AM
Gimme the 91 Bulls Really? With Paxon and Cartwright starting? I think the 93 Bulls line up was better. Two big gaurds in the back court in Jordan and Harper, Pippen and SF and Rodman at PF. Except for the center position that starting line up was mint!

I like the 89/90 Pistons.
Thomas
Dumars
Aguire
Rodman (MaHorn started, but Rodman played a lot of minutes at PF)
Laimbeer

But I'm not sure what the greatest starting five ever was. The Lakers have a pretty sweet line up right now.

Chronz
08-19-2012, 11:45 AM
Grant is arguable. And Im talking about the starting lineup, which includes MJ and Pip. I meant to put down the 92 team

92 team is the same starting 5.. Obviously the bulls had the GOAT but as far as 5on5....

Chauncey>>>>>>>Armstrong

Rip<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Jordan

Prince<Pippen

Sheed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Grant

Ben>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cartwright
LOL at Pippen barely topping Prince.
Based on what?

Bulls starting five has more <. Again Horace is better than Sheed.

So the Bulls have the edge 3 v 2 in best starters and they have the top 2 players by far.

If the Pistons were that good, where the numbers at?

Piercefan34
08-19-2012, 12:00 PM
LOL at Pippen barely topping Prince.
Based on what?

Bulls starting five has more <. Again Horace is better than Sheed.

So the Bulls have the edge 3 v 2 in best starters and they have the top 2 players by far.

If the Pistons were that good, where the numbers at?

best sig of all time

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 12:17 PM
It's funny because richard hamilton wasnt even close to top 5 player or billups at their position. Hell Im not sure if prince was either. To each their own though.


In 2004 name me 5 players better then rip and billups???? please

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 12:20 PM
isn't this is about the GREATEST OF ALL TIME ? why teams from the 60's can't be named?
also what's the point about Bill Russell's size? that doesn't change the fact that he was dominating the C position in his era ( along with Chamberlain) . did Tayshaun Prince dominated in the sf position ever?

My point is the evolution of size and athleticism.. Besides Wilt, Bill use to look like a giant compared to everybody else at 6foot8 215.. Could he dominate now a days?? Highly doubt it

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 12:30 PM
Ray vs Rip is not debatable, as a 3rd option Ray was averaging numbers similar to Rip who was the Pistons leading scorer that season with 17.6 ppg. Ray is better than Rip.

As for Prince, yes he could guard multiple positions. If you didn't know Bowen can guard the 1-3 position also. So there is no point in bringing that up in this team matchup. Both guys will more likely cancel each other out, it's not like Tayshaun Prince will have his way against Bowen lol, He didn't do it in the finals meeting against the Spurs.

You can check the numbers your self
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200506090SAS.html


So Ray allen offense was that much better then Rip??? What could ray do rip couldn't? Rip could score from anywhere. Allen was a 3point shooter, who played no defense.. How does that make him a better basketball player? The Bowen Prince debate.. Will not repeat myself its obvious you still have a bruce bowen poster on your wall. Tayshaun>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bowen... Really? Really dude?? Bruce bowen...Smh ok

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 12:35 PM
The teams with Michael Jordan on them


There is a difference between greatest starting 5 and greatest team... Not trying to make case for the best team ever so lets stay on topic ...

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 01:01 PM
There is a difference between greatest starting 5 and greatest team... Not trying to make case for the best team ever so lets stay on topic ...

Explain the difference. Are you trying to say this starting 5 had the least weaknesses? Because offensively that's not true and 0x All-Star Tayshaun Prince ruins your whole argument.

juggla53
08-19-2012, 01:03 PM
it was arguably the most balanced but i would'nt say best ever

b@llhog24
08-19-2012, 01:10 PM
Celtics maybe... Ray and Rip could be debated (at that time) Because Rip could shoot just as good as Ray (besides 3's of course) and he was a way better defender then Ray. Im sorry bro, i will not give you Bowen being equal to Prince.. While Bowen was a better man to man defender tayshaun could guard positions 1-4 and rebound... On offense not even a debate Tayshaun used to bring up the ball at the point at times.. Could post you up and had a decent jumper from mid range and beyond.. Bowen use to eat, sleep, and defecate on the baseline 3point area.. and that is about it.. Spurs??:no:

:facepalm:


87Lakers Ac green<<<< Sheed
86 Celtics Ainge<<<< Rip
85 Lakers Rambis<<<< Sheed
08 Celtics Rondo,Perkins, and Allen<<<<<Billups,Ben,and Rip.. On offense Ray was just a better 3 point shooter.. Rip was a better scorer. Not to mention he was a monster on defense. Ray Allen?? meh.You have to realize what i am talking about. At each position they had no weak links. Could guard you man to man with no help. And had 4 dynamic scorers.. As far as offense defense they are the most balanced team
Explain how i am wrong??:eyebrow:

Because you're wrong.

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 01:10 PM
it was arguably the most balanced but i would'nt say best ever

That's the thng. I don't even think it was "balanced." They didn't have someone who could consistently break opponents down off the dribble or a true post-up player. How can you be balanced without those two things?

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 01:31 PM
Explain the difference. Are you trying to say this starting 5 had the least weaknesses? Because offensively that's not true and 0x All-Star Tayshaun Prince ruins your whole argument.


Heat vs Thunder this year Thunder had the better starting 5..Miami had the better team.I dont care about All-star votes i am talking about pure basketball players Offense defense. And at that time there was maybe 1 or 2 better players then prince at the sf position. Lamarcus aldrige just made the all star game last year for the 1st time is he not a top 5 pf???

toovey107
08-19-2012, 01:57 PM
This thread makes my head hurt. Jesus Christ.

StinkEye
08-19-2012, 02:00 PM
'86 Celtics.

tapajafri
08-19-2012, 02:22 PM
I'll go with the 2002 Sacramento Kings.

Vlade Divac
Chris Webber
Peja Stojakovic
Doug Christie
Mike Bibby

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 02:26 PM
Heat vs Thunder this year Thunder had the better starting 5..Miami had the better team.I dont care about All-star votes i am talking about pure basketball players Offense defense. And at that time there was maybe 1 or 2 better players then prince at the sf position. Lamarcus aldrige just made the all star game last year for the 1st time is he not a top 5 pf???

I still don't get how you are differntiating between "better starting 5" and "better team." Please elaborate.

Also saying Pierce was a top 2-3 SF is not true at all:

Pierce-Artest-VC-Marion-Peja were clearly better at that time and he's debateable with Maggette-AK47-Mashburn.

BklynKnicks3
08-19-2012, 02:39 PM
Is this guy serious?

ye iam name me a worse champon.

Billups legit top 7 pg far from star
hamilton top 10 sg at best
prince avg sf
wallace solid but out of prime
ben wallace great defender 0 on offense


what so special about this team they played in the worst east con of all time

BklynKnicks3
08-19-2012, 02:41 PM
people on here just look at results not at the reasons behind it thats how u know some1 really doesnt know basketball any1 can go by results they are facts but there is so much more to look at.

Chronz
08-19-2012, 02:44 PM
The teams with Michael Jordan on them


There is a difference between greatest starting 5 and greatest team... Not trying to make case for the best team ever so lets stay on topic ...
This makes it seem like you think the reason the Bulls were better was because of their bench. Lmfao, no the bulls were the better team because of their main stars.

I think what your trying to ask is which team had more balance in terms on widespread talent.

Thats not the same as asking which is the best starting 5.

D-Leethal
08-19-2012, 03:16 PM
86 Celtics

Supamauhn
08-19-2012, 03:31 PM
I signed up to comment on some threads... But the sheer stupidity of some of these threads is making me question why I am still reading?

I mean if you have a question, ask it... But don't post a stupid answer.

Who is the best QB of all time? Andrew Luck! -- Morons

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 03:46 PM
I still don't get how you are differntiating between "better starting 5" and "better team." Please elaborate.

Also saying Pierce was a top 2-3 SF is not true at all:

Pierce-Artest-VC-Marion-Peja were clearly better at that time and he's debateable with Maggette-AK47-Mashburn.

Vc was a 2guard, Peja played no defense, Marion was not a better offensive player then prince sorry.
I will give you pierce and artest, so not top2 but defiantly top 3-5 SF (my original point). Its pretty simple bro. From 1-5 they are the most talented and balanced starting 5. OFFENSE and DEFENSE. All of the Jordan bulls teams had the GOAT, 2Hof's (Pippen,Rodman), Horace grant, and shooters. But never had all of them in 1 starting 5 at once. So yeah the 96,92,97,98,,93 bulls were better teams Mostly because they had MICHAEL JEFFERY JORDAN,hence making them the better team.. Still don't get it?

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 03:52 PM
people on here just look at results not at the reasons behind it thats how u know some1 really doesnt know basketball any1 can go by results they are facts but there is so much more to look at.


So who had a better starting 5 tough guy?? And what aren't i noticing O great basketball savant?? Enlighten us all..:pray:

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 03:53 PM
I signed up to comment on some threads... But the sheer stupidity of some of these threads is making me question why I am still reading?

I mean if you have a question, ask it... But don't post a stupid answer.

Who is the best QB of all time? Andrew Luck! -- Morons

:eyebrow:

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 04:32 PM
Vc was a 2guard, Peja played no defense, Marion was not a better offensive player then prince sorry.
I will give you pierce and artest, so not top2 but defiantly top 3-5 SF (my original point). ?

Prince has never even cracked 15ppg for a season. Marion was a 20ppg scorer and was more effecient.

Peja was miles better offensively and that more than makes up for the defense. What about the rest of the players I named? I would definately take AK47 over him as well. He definately was never a top 5 SF and that's why he never made an all-nba team or an all-star team.


Its pretty simple bro. From 1-5 they are the most talented and balanced starting 5. OFFENSE and DEFENSE. All of the Jordan bulls teams had the GOAT, 2Hof's (Pippen,Rodman), Horace grant, and shooters. But never had all of them in 1 starting 5 at once. So yeah the 96,92,97,98,,93 bulls were better teams Mostly because they had MICHAEL JEFFERY JORDAN,hence making them the better team.. Still don't get it?

The Pistons (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2004.html)
Defense: 2nd out of 29 (impressive)
Offense: 18th out of 29

How can you call that the most balanced starting 5 of all time?

goku
08-19-2012, 04:34 PM
lets not crown them yet they still have to make it out the west we all remember the 2003-2004 lakers squad that was just as talented and didnt get the ring

StinkEye
08-19-2012, 04:35 PM
I'm going to say '86 Celtics again.

Bird in his prime (26/10/7)
McHale almost at his peak (21/8/2blks)
Parish getting you 16 and 10 as the 3rd best player on the team
Dennis Johnson getting you 16 and 6 assists a game.
Danny Ainge getting you 10 and 5 assists as the worst player in the starting rotation.

... not to mention a rejuvenated Bill Walton off the bench. So much length and skill on this team.

goku
08-19-2012, 04:35 PM
And also the Heat have the floor well spread howard and gasol gonna be playing defense on the perimeter alot

passittome
08-19-2012, 04:44 PM
Heat vs Thunder this year Thunder had the better starting 5..Miami had the better team.I dont care about All-star votes i am talking about pure basketball players Offense defense.



Can u please elaborate oh how the thunder had a better starting 5 than the heat but Miami had the better team? And if you take into account winning results over opinions of gameplay?. You are looking for greatest TEAM but use INDIVIDUAL breakdowns in your counter arguments.

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 04:47 PM
I'm going to say '86 Celtics again.

Bird in his prime (26/10/7)
McHale almost at his peak (21/8/2blks)
Parish getting you 16 and 10 as the 3rd best player on the team
Dennis Johnson getting you 16 and 6 assists a game.
Danny Ainge getting you 10 and 5 assists as the worst player in the starting rotation.

... not to mention a rejuvenated Bill Walton off the bench. So much length and skill on this team.

Relax. People agree with you. I'm just trying to figure out if this guy is a troll. :)

Jaji
08-19-2012, 04:51 PM
95 Magic had a nice starting 5

Shaq
Horace grant
3D
Nick Anderson
Penny

2 Superstars, 2 deadly outside shooters and a blue collar PF with 18 foot range.

--23--
08-19-2012, 04:53 PM
Relax. People agree with you. I'm just trying to figure out if this guy is a troll. :)

he is :laugh2:

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 05:03 PM
Relax. People agree with you. I'm just trying to figure out if this guy is a troll. :)


Not trolling what so ever.. Nobody has gave me a compiling argument except for the dude that said the 85Lakers.. A troll is somebody that says a lot of far fetched things that they usually don't believe to get a reaction.. This is my honest opinion. Have i really said anything outlandish??

Lake_Show2416
08-19-2012, 05:05 PM
Michael Jordan > Rasheed, Rip, Billups, Ben Wallace combined

LAcowBOMBER
08-19-2012, 05:15 PM
To OP, they were not a balanced team at all. They had pretty evenly distributed talent, but they were not good offensively.

The Lakers team they beat was just about to fall apart. They would have lost the any of the 3 championship teams from '00-.02.

The '86 Celtics were as balanced and the individual players were better than the Pistons individual players.

Also, the Showtime Lakers teams were incredibly balanced and clearly better.

The Pistons had something really special that year, but Shaq quit halfway through that series and most of the stars on that team were ready to kill each other. They deserve to be remembered for being a great defensive team with talent spread out, but they are not the best starting 5 ever

LAcowBOMBER
08-19-2012, 05:22 PM
'87-'88 Lakers
2 titles, same lineup

pg- Magic
sg-Byron Scott
sf- Worthy
pf- A.C. Green
c- Kareem

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 05:38 PM
Prince has never even cracked 15ppg for a season. Marion was a 20ppg scorer and was more effecient.

Peja was miles better offensively and that more than makes up for the defense. What about the rest of the players I named? I would definately take AK47 over him as well. He definately was never a top 5 SF and that's why he never made an all-nba team or an all-star team.



The Pistons (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2004.html)
Defense: 2nd out of 29 (impressive)
Offense: 18th out of 29

How can you call that the most balanced starting 5 of all time?


Not trolling what so ever.. Nobody has gave me a compiling argument except for the dude that said the 85Lakers.. A troll is somebody that says a lot of far fetched things that they usually don't believe to get a reaction.. This is my honest opinion. Have i really said anything outlandish??

Well you posted a wildly unpopular opinion. Never explained your OP. And repeatedly ignore posts refutting your claim (for example the one I posted above). If it walks like a troll and talks like a troll...

Miltstar
08-19-2012, 05:39 PM
How about the 2012 Lakers!?!?!

Nash
Kobe
Jameson/Artest
Gasol
Howard

That's pretty tough to beat!

smith&wesson
08-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Ill take

nash
kobe
artest
gasol
howard

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 05:59 PM
Well you posted a wildly unpopular opinion. Never explained your OP. And repeatedly ignore posts refutting your claim (for example the one I posted above). If it walks like a troll and talks like a troll...

I think your trying a little to hard there buddy.I explained my OP countless amount of times, and I acknowledged mostly everybody's points. Just cause i don't answer you 4 times in a row doesn't mean i am ignoring you. We all have the write to an opinion that's what makes America 2nd to none. Just because i don't agree with you or another person doesn't make u a troll.. Its called a "Discussion"..... Tough Guy

Denero718305
08-19-2012, 06:04 PM
Ill take

nash
kobe
artest
gasol
howard

And to all the hyped up delusional Laker fans that want to give the 2012 team there rings before they played a second together.. You may exit stage right.. Thanks for stopping by.

KnicksorBust
08-19-2012, 06:06 PM
I think your trying a little to hard there buddy.I explained my OP countless amount of times, and I acknowledged mostly everybody's points. Just cause i don't answer you 4 times in a row doesn't mean i am ignoring you. We all have the write to an opinion that's what makes America 2nd to none. Just because i don't agree with you or another person doesn't make u a troll.. Its called a "Discussion"..... Tough Guy

:laugh:

I don't know whether to come back at you or chant U-S-A at my computer screen. Either way a team that was 18th in offense is not the greatest starting 5 or most balanced team in NBA History. Not by a long shot.

Chronz
08-19-2012, 07:00 PM
This makes it seem like you think the reason the Bulls were better was because of their bench. Lmfao, no the bulls were the better team because of their main stars.

I think what your trying to ask is which team had more balance in terms on widespread talent.

Thats not the same as asking which is the best starting 5.

Troll ignoring hard

amos1er
08-19-2012, 07:41 PM
I honestly am laughing my arse off right now. Not only because the 04 pistons are not even in the top 20 of greatest starting 5's of all time, but because of how much help from the refs they got to beat a depleted Lakers team for the title. Not only that, they barely made it through the weak east to even make the finals.

Here is a list of starting 5's that were better than the 04 Pistons....

2012 Heat
2012 Thunder
2012 Spurs
2011 Mavs
2011 Heat
2010 Lakers
2010 Celtics
2009 Lakers
2008 Celtics
2008 Lakers
2007 Spurs
2007 Suns
2006 Heat
2006 Mavs
2005 Suns
2005 Spurs
2005 Mavs
2004 Lakers - were completely robbed in the finals by the refs and even if you argue they weren't, their lack of health robbed them as well and a full healthy squad would have swept them easy.
2004 Spurs
2004 Timberwolves - if healthy
2004 Kings


etc....need I go on. They are not even in the top 50 of all time IMO.

BTW LMFAO at you saying that each of them was top 5 at their respective position. :facepalm:

amos1er
08-19-2012, 07:42 PM
And to all the hyped up delusional Laker fans that want to give the 2012 team there rings before they played a second together.. You may exit stage right.. Thanks for stopping by.

Off topic. stop being a hater.

Chronz
08-19-2012, 07:59 PM
I honestly am laughing my arse off right now. Not only because the 04 pistons are not even in the top 20 of greatest starting 5's of all time, but because of how much help from the refs they got to beat a depleted Lakers team for the title. Not only that, they barely made it through the weak east to even make the finals.

Here is a list of starting 5's that were better than the 04 Pistons....

2012 Heat
2012 Thunder
2012 Spurs
2011 Mavs
2011 Heat
2010 Lakers
2010 Celtics
2009 Lakers
2008 Celtics
2008 Lakers
2007 Spurs
2007 Suns
2006 Heat
2006 Mavs
2005 Suns
2005 Spurs
2005 Mavs
2004 Lakers - were completely robbed in the finals by the refs and even if you argue they weren't, their lack of health robbed them as well and a full healthy squad would have swept them easy.
2004 Spurs
2004 Timberwolves - if healthy
2004 Kings


etc....need I go on. They are not even in the top 50 of all time IMO.

BTW LMFAO at you saying that each of them was top 5 at their respective position. :facepalm:
Out trolling to the troll, well done if only it didnt come to this. Rather dispute his claim with facts than conspiracy. Pistons had a tough time in the East because Sheed was hurting and they faced some of the best defenses then. The Nets were prideful defending conference champs, Indiana was talented as **** (I didnt see them on your list) but were also injured. Your underrating what was the BEST defensive unit of our time.

As a side note, the 2005 Heat > 2006 Heat and most definitely one of the best to never win, certainly above the Suns.

amos1er
08-19-2012, 08:26 PM
And to all the hyped up delusional Laker fans that want to give the 2012 team there rings before they played a second together.. You may exit stage right.. Thanks for stopping by.

Sounds exactly like what the Heat fans were doing back in 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9BqUBYaHlM

amos1er
08-19-2012, 08:29 PM
Out trolling to the troll, well done if only it didnt come to this. Rather dispute his claim with facts than conspiracy. Pistons had a tough time in the East because Sheed was hurting and they faced some of the best defenses then. The Nets were prideful defending conference champs, Indiana was talented as **** (I didnt see them on your list) but were also injured. Your underrating what was the BEST defensive unit of our time.

As a side note, the 2005 Heat > 2006 Heat and most definitely one of the best to never win, certainly above the Suns.

Best defensive unit of our time is quite a claim. I would say that the 2008 and 2010 Celtics were better defensively. I would rather have a front line of KG and Perk than Rasheed and Ben.

You're a stats guy...take a look at this article that ranks them at only #5 in the modern era. Included is a graph explaining why. If you include the 2010 Celtics, they are bumped down to #6
http://celticshub.com/2009/10/09/the-greatest-defensive-teams-of-the-modern-era/

Lets also not forget that the 2004 Pistons only averaged something like 87 ppg and their offense was ranked like 18th of 29 teams. As good as they were defensively they were that bad offensively.

Gritz
08-19-2012, 08:32 PM
lol

BklynKnicks3
08-19-2012, 09:02 PM
So who had a better starting 5 tough guy?? And what aren't i noticing O great basketball savant?? Enlighten us all..:pray:

i can name like 50 honestly

celtics 86 celtics with rondo/ray/pp/kg/perkins

current lakers

suns amare nash marion joe johnson q rich

thunder heat

magic penny nick d scott grant shaq


bj mike pippen rodman luc




magic b scott worth cooper kareeem





this thread is a joke i can name 40 more

amos1er
08-19-2012, 09:28 PM
i can name like 50 honestly

celtics 86 celtics with rondo/ray/pp/kg/perkins

current lakers

suns amare nash marion joe johnson q rich

thunder heat

magic penny nick d scott grant shaq


bj mike pippen rodman luc




magic b scott worth cooper kareeem





this thread is a joke i can name 40 more

Ya, I could name a whole bunch too. This thread is honestly a joke. The Pistons were lucky to even win a title...they barely made their way through the weak east to beat a Lakers squad that was racked with injury and locker room drama. Lets not forget how much the refs helped them too. In five games they had 150 FT's to the Lakers 75 FT's. Now if someone were to say that they were the luckiest team of all time there could be a serious argument made.

Chronz
08-19-2012, 11:16 PM
Best defensive unit of our time is quite a claim. I would say that the 2008 and 2010 Celtics were better defensively. I would rather have a front line of KG and Perk than Rasheed and Ben.

You're a stats guy...take a look at this article that ranks them at only #5 in the modern era. Included is a graph explaining why. If you include the 2010 Celtics, they are bumped down to #6
http://celticshub.com/2009/10/09/the-greatest-defensive-teams-of-the-modern-era/

Lets also not forget that the 2004 Pistons only averaged something like 87 ppg and their offense was ranked like 18th of 29 teams. As good as they were defensively they were that bad offensively.
Well that could depend on which era we're talking about, pre/post hand checking. I think the old style suited the Pistons but in terms of how they dominated their league, I take those Pistons hands down. They were peaking at the right time and had every defensive strength a team would need in ANY situation against ANY offense.

They suffocated teams benches by throwing a full court press of Mike James and Lindsey Hunter. Chauncey and Rip would usually switch assignments depending on what you needed.
Ben and Sheed vs KG and Perk gos in Detroits favor. I dont see why you would even question that one but even if it was up in the air, the addition of Tayshaun should make it a no brainer. They even had Okur/ Elden Cambell (who could defend Shaq better than anyone at that point). Most importantly they had a young Smush Parker ....

As for the numbers, those stats rank the Pistons as the 5th best (The 2010 Celtics dont bump them off) but they played most of their games without Sheed, Im talking about the unit with Sheed included. The minute they added Sheed they became a different team, they held like 4 teams in a row under 70 and broke a streak or record of some kind for under 80PPG allowed.
So imagine a team that was already elite defensively getting 11PTS per48 better with him on the court. Thats insane sir, in the 21 games he started, the Pistons boasted a DRTG of 89.2 (Tops in the league by a fair margin) while holding opponents to 76.8 ppg on 38.2% shooting.


It was only 21 games but a stretch of that degree hasnt been duplicated since. In those games, an opponent scored over 90 points just once and under 70 points in 7 of those games. Then the playoffs came around and they proved their worth, throw in what they did before, after Sheed + the Playoff obliteration, I have never seen a defense that dominant. I probably never will either.

Good point about their offense but the Celtics offense wasnt much better and the defensive dominance of the Pistons close that gap somewhat. I do think the Celtics are one of the better champion teams, so I dont see it as a disservice to the Pistons as a whole to say they werent as good as those guys.

Also your complaint of them struggling vs the East (Sheed was injured for some of those) holds true for the 08 Celtics too. It happens sometimes

Gram
08-20-2012, 12:30 AM
Ya, I could name a whole bunch too. This thread is honestly a joke. The Pistons were lucky to even win a title...they barely made their way through the weak east to beat a Lakers squad that was racked with injury and locker room drama. Lets not forget how much the refs helped them too. In five games they had 150 FT's to the Lakers 75 FT's. Now if someone were to say that they were the luckiest team of all time there could be a serious argument made.

They went up against two of the top 5 players in the NBA at the time. They played amazing. They played stifling defence and played with alotta poise. The only reason they didn't sweep the Lakers is because Kobe made a miraculous shot in Game 2. Luck doesn't win a championship, especially in 5 games. Hard work and amazing defense does. They won because they played better. To say otherwise is just silly.

Gram
08-20-2012, 12:34 AM
Best defensive unit of our time is quite a claim. I would say that the 2008 and 2010 Celtics were better defensively. I would rather have a front line of KG and Perk than Rasheed and Ben.

You're a stats guy...take a look at this article that ranks them at only #5 in the modern era. Included is a graph explaining why. If you include the 2010 Celtics, they are bumped down to #6
http://celticshub.com/2009/10/09/the-greatest-defensive-teams-of-the-modern-era/

Lets also not forget that the 2004 Pistons only averaged something like 87 ppg and their offense was ranked like 18th of 29 teams. As good as they were defensively they were that bad offensively.

The fact that they went 54-28 averaging 90.1 ppg makes this even more impressive. Why you're questioning their elite defence is beyond me.

mrblisterdundee
08-20-2012, 01:04 AM
What do you mean by "Greatest starting 5 of all time"? Do you mean cohesiveness, overall talent, how many hall-of-fame players a starting lineup had?
I'll say the starting roster of the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls, since they contributed to the greatest regular-season record of all time and lost only three games in the playoffs on their way to an NBA championship.

dodie53
08-20-2012, 04:07 AM
ice cold story bro

brodawgs
08-20-2012, 04:35 AM
I always love it when people go:

MY PG >>>> YOUR PG

etc etc

Life doesn't work that way. Maybe if there was no passing, they rotated for rebounds, and each position covered their opposite, sure we could go off of that analysis. But if we're going to talk about the real world here, it has zero bearing on comparing how good teams are/were. It has as much relevance as the couple McDouble sandwiches I had for lunch today.

As far as talent goes, that roster isn't on par with the great Lakers, Bulls, and Celtics teams. As far as being a team goes, you can easily argue that they were at least one of the greatest all time, and I think you'd easily give them the crown for the best defensive starting 5.

goalie
08-20-2012, 04:47 AM
96 Bullls Longley and harper
92 Bulls grant,armstrong, cartwright
2010 Lakers fisher and bynum
98 Celtics lol really????? mercer, barros,battie,vitaly potepenko
84 Sixers mo cheeks, young barkley
87Lakers ac green
86 Celtics ainge
I would take the 2004 pistons players at each position listed above... I will give you the 85 lakers for the argument ... Wasn't around for the 60's sorry.... There is a diffrence between greatest starting 5 and greatest team... I am talking about top to bottom, mano-a-mano baby. Who you got??

Barkley was on the Sixers 2 seasons after their title. The Sixers team with a rookie Barkely isn't even the Sixers best all time 5.

Also....youre too young to give an opinion on how good Cartwight and Grant were.

Steelers23_06
08-20-2012, 04:50 AM
i honestly dont think that team wins the east or west this year and this by far isnt the best basketball year.

Philapsychosis
08-20-2012, 04:54 AM
Greatest? no.

Underrated? yes.

That team was nasty.

Most teams had a hard time scoring 70 points against that team.

Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace in their prime were really something special..

This. I remember the Sixers put up like 82 on them and it was a big deal because no team had put up that much on them in some crazy amount of time.

goalie
08-20-2012, 05:02 AM
My point is the evolution of size and athleticism.. Besides Wilt, Bill use to look like a giant compared to everybody else at 6foot8 215.. Could he dominate now a days?? Highly doubt it

Wilt was 7'1 275, I've never heard of him being any less than 250 and 7 feet tall as a pro.

Every team had at least 2 players bigger than Bill Russell, but what made him one of the great of all time is he still beat them, he still grabbed 20 boards a game and blocked what some people estimate as 9 shots a game.

You're discrediting Bill Russell because of his size in a thread that is dedicated to the undersized Ben Wallace? Give Bill the weightroom, trainers and technology Ben had and he would have been able to bend steel with his pinky and he would have had about 30 pounds more on his frame.

Bill Russell would crap on Ben Wallaces head. Not that you compared the two, but just wanted to make sure you knew that.

Denero718305
08-20-2012, 05:21 AM
I honestly am laughing my arse off right now. Not only because the 04 pistons are not even in the top 20 of greatest starting 5's of all time, but because of how much help from the refs they got to beat a depleted Lakers team for the title. Not only that, they barely made it through the weak east to even make the finals.

Here is a list of starting 5's that were better than the 04 Pistons....

2012 Heat
2012 Thunder
2012 Spurs
2011 Mavs
2011 Heat
2010 Lakers
2010 Celtics
2009 Lakers
2008 Celtics
2008 Lakers
2007 Spurs
2007 Suns
2006 Heat
2006 Mavs
2005 Suns
2005 Spurs
2005 Mavs
2004 Lakers - were completely robbed in the finals by the refs and even if you argue they weren't, their lack of health robbed them as well and a full healthy squad would have swept them easy.
2004 Spurs
2004 Timberwolves - if healthy
2004 Kings


etc....need I go on. They are not even in the top 50 of all time IMO.

BTW LMFAO at you saying that each of them was top 5 at their respective position. :facepalm:
:facepalm: whatever you say bro....

Steelers23_06
08-20-2012, 05:37 AM
how are they the best team when if tayshaun princes block doesnt occur they dont even make it out the ECF. lets be real the lakers team a coiuple years before that that won like 24/25 games or the 72-10 bulls team would destroy them. i say even the big 3 celtics beat these guys. man you cant throw greatest around like that. when we have had teams in the league that you were wondering why the other teams dont just mail them the obrien trophy lol

SanPitte
08-20-2012, 06:09 AM
Besides the obvious ones (60s Celtics,80s lakers and celtic)

05 Suns
Nash
J.Johnson
Q.Richardson
S.Marion
A.Stoudemire

04 Mavs
Nash
Finley
Jamison (was a 6th man but played 30min a game)
Nowitzki
A.Walker (played center with Dirk when Jamison was playing)

01 Heat
T.Hardaway
E.Jones
A.Mason
B.Grant
A.Mourning (got his kidney problem)

99 Knicks
C.Ward
A.Houston
L.Sprewell
L.Johnson
P.Ewing

98 Lakers
Van Exel
E.Jones/Kobe
Fox
Horry/Campbell
O'Neal

96 Sonics
Payton
Hawkins
Schrempf
Kemp
Perkins

86 Sixers
Cheeks
Erving
B.Jones
Barkley
M.Malone

and i agree with whoever mentioned the 2002 Kings

Denero718305
08-20-2012, 06:09 AM
Troll ignoring hard
Really??...... Really dude?? .. .:facepalm: Lets recap, shall we? Ok first you said that the 91 bulls had a better starting 5. I broke down each position showing you that indeed the pistons had the better starting 5.. Then you said "my bad" i meant the 92 bulls ( which happend to be the same freakin lineup).. After telling you that, you then tried to make a dumb as* agrument that Horace Grant was better then Sheed:laugh2: just to not give up hope on your pick. After geting proved wrong for the 2nd time you would think a normal person would decide to maybe, idk join another thread and count their losses huh?? NOOOO , not Chronz instead you deciided to chime in on a conversation i was having with somebody else, in regards to the bulls having a better team not a better starting 5 then the pistons.. I thought i was done with you 4 pages earlier, so i chose to ignore your last ditch effort to save face, and rejoin the discussion.. But little did i know Chronz was lurking in the shadows trying to figure out a way to get my attention once again. Then it hit you... U decided to piggy back off of another douche calling me a troll because he strongly disagreed with me.. smh... Listen bro, I get tired repeating the same shi* over and over again .:bang: Agree to disagree.

Denero718305
08-20-2012, 06:18 AM
:laugh:

I don't know whether to come back at you or chant U-S-A at my computer screen. Either way a team that was 18th in offense is not the greatest starting 5 or most balanced team in NBA History. Not by a long shot.


I understand... And i respect your opinion... But i still disagree with you.. See how that works?? Isn't america a great place to be?? Sure glad were not in communist China... USA USA USA USA :9/11:

SanPitte
08-20-2012, 06:20 AM
and the older ones

72 Lakers
J.West
G.Goodrich
E.Baylor then J.McMillian
H.Hairston
Wilt

73 Knicks
Frazier
Monroe
J.Lucas
DeBusschere
Reed

eugene
08-20-2012, 06:22 AM
team was really special...

Denero718305
08-20-2012, 06:43 AM
i can name like 50 honestly

celtics 86 celtics with rondo/ray/pp/kg/perkins

current lakers

suns amare nash marion joe johnson q rich

thunder heat

magic penny nick d scott grant shaq


bj mike pippen rodman luc




magic b scott worth cooper kareeem





this thread is a joke i can name 40 more


Research much??? lmao you come back 4 hours later with a list of teams..I will give u the 86 Celtics and the 85 Lakers. But I noticed you like to thread hop, hating on the op claiming the thread should be closed ( as if the topic is not debatable) unless its boasting the hapless knicks.If you think a thread is a joke why join the convo?? Unless that's how you get your kicks out of life.. if so.. "to each his own"

BklynKnicks3
08-20-2012, 08:35 AM
Research much??? lmao you come back 4 hours later with a list of teams..I will give u the 86 Celtics and the 85 Lakers. But I noticed you like to thread hop, hating on the op claiming the thread should be closed ( as if the topic is not debatable) unless its boasting the hapless knicks.If you think a thread is a joke why join the convo?? Unless that's how you get your kicks out of life.. if so.. "to each his own"

i dont do research i dont sit next to the computer on weekends i have a life, sure during the week i respond quick bored at work.

I join the convo because it is amazing to me how some1 can even make this. Name me a worse title team then that pistons team their 89 team blows that team away alone. How bout the old laker teams with wilt west goodrich old sixers team with moses the doc cunnigham,Id even take the hornets with mugsy kendal gill lj zo over that team. That team was a product of the wekest stretch in east basketball and lakers team turmoil more then they where legit great team.

HrtHustleNMscle
08-20-2012, 09:10 AM
96 Bullls Longley and harper
92 Bulls grant,armstrong, cartwright
2010 Lakers fisher and bynum
98 Celtics lol really????? mercer, barros,battie,vitaly potepenko
84 Sixers mo cheeks, young barkley
87Lakers ac green
86 Celtics ainge
I would take the 2004 pistons players at each position listed above... I will give you the 85 lakers for the argument ... Wasn't around for the 60's sorry.... There is a diffrence between greatest starting 5 and greatest team... I am talking about top to bottom, mano-a-mano baby. Who you got??

Which means that there are still 3 players on that starting 5 better than the starting 5 you say is the greatest of all time. Tell me how that makes sense? You can find 1 position for any great team that another great team will have them beat at, but it doesn't mean that they would be better. Has any other team ever dominated the NBA the way the '96 Bulls did? 72-10, game over, stupid thread. They didn't just beat teams that year either, they steam rolled them by 12 points a game and almost went undefeated at home if not for Grandmama, Zo, and Mugsy pulling one out of their *****.

MonroeFAN
08-20-2012, 09:27 AM
crap some Laker fans are ridiculous. (Not all).

I can't believe the claim that this list of non-champions are better. Are you guys still bitter about the beat down you received nearly a decade ago? It's time to get over it.

As A Piston fan, there is no way I would put them as the best, but good lord they weren't the worst. We had an incredible defense.

SanPitte
08-20-2012, 11:02 AM
Which means that there are still 3 players on that starting 5 better than the starting 5 you say is the greatest of all time. Tell me how that makes sense? You can find 1 position for any great team that another great team will have them beat at, but it doesn't mean that they would be better. Has any other team ever dominated the NBA the way the '96 Bulls did? 72-10, game over, stupid thread. They didn't just beat teams that year either, they steam rolled them by 12 points a game and almost went undefeated at home if not for Grandmama, Zo, and Mugsy pulling one out of their *****.

Zo was playing for the heat in 1995-96 and they lost 2 games at home that season, after checking, their 2nd loss was against the Pacers

Dee_Edge
08-20-2012, 11:32 AM
johnson-ainge-bird-mchale-parish or magic-scott-worthy-green-kareem are better.

asandhu23
08-20-2012, 12:25 PM
Run TMC was better than 04 Pistons.

asandhu23
08-20-2012, 12:29 PM
04 Pistons aren't even the best roster in Pistons history.

Vikingfan84
08-20-2012, 12:45 PM
Best starting lineup...

PG - Payton
SG - Kobe
SF - Fox
PF - Malone
C - Shaq

SanPitte
08-20-2012, 01:01 PM
it wasn't Rick Fox who played most of the minutes at SF but the great Devean George actually...
and you chose the starting 5 that lost against those Pistons in 04...i see what you did there:)

HrtHustleNMscle
08-20-2012, 01:25 PM
Zo was playing for the heat in 1995-96 and they lost 2 games at home that season, after checking, their 2nd loss was against the Pacers

I am aware they lost 2 home games, but they were both toward the end of the season and there was not the same sense of urgency after they lost the first one. Forgot that Zo was on the Heat though. Not sure what you were trying to disprove though...

SanPitte
08-20-2012, 01:33 PM
i wasn't trying to disprove anything, i also think that the 96 Bulls was the best team in history, with the 72 Lakers which i've only watched videos about

Clutch1
08-20-2012, 01:47 PM
I honestly am laughing my arse off right now. Not only because the 04 pistons are not even in the top 20 of greatest starting 5's of all time, but because of how much help from the refs they got to beat a depleted Lakers team for the title. Not only that, they barely made it through the weak east to even make the finals.

Here is a list of starting 5's that were better than the 04 Pistons....

2012 Heat
2012 Thunder
2012 Spurs
2011 Mavs
2011 Heat
2010 Lakers
2010 Celtics
2009 Lakers
2008 Celtics
2008 Lakers
2007 Spurs
2007 Suns
2006 Heat
2006 Mavs
2005 Suns
2005 Spurs
2005 Mavs
2004 Lakers - were completely robbed in the finals by the refs and even if you argue they weren't, their lack of health robbed them as well and a full healthy squad would have swept them easy.
2004 Spurs
2004 Timberwolves - if healthy
2004 Kings


etc....need I go on. They are not even in the top 50 of all time IMO.

BTW LMFAO at you saying that each of them was top 5 at their respective position. :facepalm:

The 2004 pistons team would beat every team you just listed besides the 2012 Heat. The fact that you listed 04 teams in that makes me laugh. If those teams didn't win the 'ship, how are they better?:facepalm: let's look at the past champions since them
05 Spurs- healthy pistons beat them. Sheed was dealing with injuries and the spurs barely won in game 7
06 Heat- we saw what Ben did to Shaq in LA. Pistons in 6
07 Spurs- an aged Manu and Td weaken them compared to the 05 team. There for pistoms in 6
08 Celtics- interesting matchup. Battle of Defense, Pistons D was the best of the decade though. Pistons in 6
09 Lakers- Pau would be exposed by Sheed. Aged Kobe would be slowed down by Tay. Pistons would roll in 5
010 Lakers- same roster, one year older. Pistons in 5
011 Mavs- pistons win every position besides the 4, but Sheed in the day would make it a match up. Pistons in 5.
Don't be mad cuz they smacked your team around in 04 like they did. :D:facepalm:

BklynKnicks3
08-20-2012, 01:50 PM
Best starting lineup...

PG - Payton
SG - Kobe
SF - Fox
PF - Malone
C - Shaq

no cause payton n malone washed and fox avg player

amos1er
08-20-2012, 04:50 PM
The 2004 pistons team would beat every team you just listed besides the 2012 Heat. The fact that you listed 04 teams in that makes me laugh. If those teams didn't win the 'ship, how are they better?:facepalm: let's look at the past champions since them
05 Spurs- healthy pistons beat them. Sheed was dealing with injuries and the spurs barely won in game 7
06 Heat- we saw what Ben did to Shaq in LA. Pistons in 6
07 Spurs- an aged Manu and Td weaken them compared to the 05 team. There for pistoms in 6
08 Celtics- interesting matchup. Battle of Defense, Pistons D was the best of the decade though. Pistons in 6
09 Lakers- Pau would be exposed by Sheed. Aged Kobe would be slowed down by Tay. Pistons would roll in 5
010 Lakers- same roster, one year older. Pistons in 5
011 Mavs- pistons win every position besides the 4, but Sheed in the day would make it a match up. Pistons in 5.
Don't be mad cuz they smacked your team around in 04 like they did. :D:facepalm:

Wow you're argument is so weak I just don't know where to begin. The 04 Pistons were the most overrated team of all time. A true cinderella and feel good story yes, but best of all time...thats an insult to many who truly deserve to be in that conversation.

Look, the east is and was extremely weak back in 04, in fact the 04 Pistons, 06 Heat, and the 08 Celtics were the only teams to win a championship in the 2000's decade. Thats 3 out of 10 years that an eastern team won it all. The Pistons barely made it out of the weak east and it took them 7 games to beat a team that the Lakers swept and destroyed just 2 years earlier. Without a miracle half court shot from Billups, the Pistons would have likely been eliminated by the Pacers.

The Pistons that year were a 3 seed in the pathetic east only winning 54 games in a conference where the bottom 4 seeded teams are all less than .500. 54 wins in the east in 04 is equivalent to 48 wins in the west, which would make them a 6 or 7 seed. Hardly the credentials of "the best starting 5 of all time". :rolleyes: They were 18 out of 29 in offense. Truly any team that could be mentioned in the greatest starting 5 of all time conversation would not be in the bottom 48% of the league in offense the year they won the title.

To all of you guru's who will say that they were the best defensive team of this generation, I give you this chart:http://celticshub.com/2009/10/09/the-greatest-defensive-teams-of-the-modern-era/

Clearly, when you crunch the numbers, they are rated as the 5th best defensive team of the modern era. One would think that a team with the greatest starting 5 of all time would at least be the best defensive team of their era especially considering that they were not even in the top 15 in offense the year they won the title. :facepalm:

Lets just be honest and call the 04 Pistons what they were...plain lucky. They had a great run sure and got hot at the right time, no one is doubting that. But many things had to fall in line for them to win that ring. Many lucky breaks against NJ, a miracle half court shot in the ECF, and injuries to Malone, George, and Fox all played a part in their miraculous run to a title. Also, the officials got caught up in the hype of their "Rocky Balboa" like title run by clearly favoring them with calls, awarding them over double the amount of free throw attempts that the Lakers had. 150 FT attempts for the Pistons, and 75 FT's for the Lakers. There was much hate that years against Kobe Bryant fresh off rape charges and much love for any team that could take the "evil" Lakers down. The cinderella like story that Detroit had that year coupled with Laker hate being at an all time hight that year really helped them get a huge advantage with the refs.

They couldn't even repeat the next year. One would think that the "greatest starting five of all time" would have been able to go back to back at least one. I mean, they lost in 05 to the Spurs. That alone proves that the 05 Spurs were obviously better, thus disproving this outlandish claim that the 04 Pistons were the greatest starting 5 of all time. The Pistons were lucky that it was the injury plagued Lakers that happened to come out of the west that year, because if it would have been the Timberwolves, Spurs, or the Kings they would have been fodder.

Chronz
08-20-2012, 05:40 PM
Really??...... Really dude?? .. .:facepalm: Lets recap, shall we? Ok first you said that the 91 bulls had a better starting 5. I broke down each position showing you that indeed the pistons had the better starting 5.
False, you didnt show anything. You expressed a flawed opinion that showed how little you know basketball.



Then you said "my bad" i meant the 92 bulls ( which happend to be the same freakin lineup)..
when you use quotation marks you have to actually QUOTE what the other person said, not MAKE UP LIES. I never said my bad and I never denied it was the same lineup. I know its hard for you to grasp my point with your limited intellect but them being the same lineup doesnt make them the same UNIT.

Pippen and Grant were both improving. Plz try harder to grasp the argument.



After telling you that, you then tried to make a dumb as* agrument that Horace Grant was better then Sheed:laugh2:
False, go back and read the FIRST RESPONSE. I said that from the start. NEXT


just to not give up hope on your pick. After geting proved wrong for the 2nd time you would think a normal person would decide to maybe, idk join another thread and count their losses huh?? NOOOO , not Chronz instead you deciided to chime in on a conversation i was having with somebody else, in regards to the bulls having a better team not a better starting 5 then the pistons.. I thought i was done with you 4 pages earlier, so i chose to ignore your last ditch effort to save face, and rejoin the discussion.. But little did i know Chronz was lurking in the shadows trying to figure out a way to get my attention once again. Then it hit you... U decided to piggy back off of another douche calling me a troll because he strongly disagreed with me.. smh... Listen bro, I get tired repeating the same shi* over and over again .:bang: Agree to disagree.
Its all in your head, thats why you have failed so miserably to defend your stance and answer the questions raised. You may not be attempting to troll but from the way you defend your argument, it comes off as trolling, so forgive me for mistaking you as a troll, it turns out your just utterly incompetent

Chronz
08-20-2012, 05:41 PM
Without a miracle half court shot from Billups, the Pistons would have likely been eliminated by the Pacers.
Wat?


To all of you guru's who will say that they were the best defensive team of this generation, I give you this chart:http://celticshub.com/2009/10/09/the-greatest-defensive-teams-of-the-modern-era/Clearly, when you crunch the numbers, they are rated as the 5th best defensive team of the modern era. One would think that a team with the greatest starting 5 of all time would at least be the best defensive team of their era especially considering that they were not even in the top 15 in offense the year they won the title. :facepalm:
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showpost.php?p=23378813&postcount=125


They couldn't even repeat the next year. One would think that the "greatest starting five of all time" would have been able to go back to back at least one. I mean, they lost in 05 to the Spurs. That alone proves that the 05 Spurs were obviously better, thus disproving this outlandish claim that the 04 Pistons were the greatest starting 5 of all time. The Pistons were lucky that it was the injury plagued Lakers that happened to come out of the west that year, because if it would have been the Timberwolves, Spurs, or the Kings they would have been fodder.
This makes no sense, Spurs never repeated either.

Denero718305
08-20-2012, 06:32 PM
False, you didnt show anything. You expressed a flawed opinion that showed how little you know basketball.



when you use quotation marks you have to actually QUOTE what the other person said, not MAKE UP LIES. I never said my bad and I never denied it was the same lineup. I know its hard for you to grasp my point with your limited intellect but them being the same lineup doesnt make them the same UNIT.

Pippen and Grant were both improving. Plz try harder to grasp the argument.



False, go back and read the FIRST RESPONSE. I said that from the start. NEXT


Its all in your head, thats why you have failed so miserably to defend your stance and answer the questions raised. You may not be attempting to troll but from the way you defend your argument, it comes off as trolling, so forgive me for mistaking you as a troll, it turns out your just utterly incompetent

I guess this is my cue to now respond to your new argument:eyebrow: Sorry buddy not my thing, to go back and forth beating a dead horse. i fond your points rather pointless. Regurgitated BS that you probably heard from an older sibling.. Sorry i hurt your feelings bro... carry on

Denero718305
08-20-2012, 06:37 PM
Wow you're argument is so weak I just don't know where to begin. The 04 Pistons were the most overrated team of all time. A true cinderella and feel good story yes, but best of all time...thats an insult to many who truly deserve to be in that conversation.

Look, the east is and was extremely weak back in 04, in fact the 04 Pistons, 06 Heat, and the 08 Celtics were the only teams to win a championship in the 2000's decade. Thats 3 out of 10 years that an eastern team won it all. The Pistons barely made it out of the weak east and it took them 7 games to beat a team that the Lakers swept and destroyed just 2 years earlier. Without a miracle half court shot from Billups, the Pistons would have likely been eliminated by the Pacers.

The Pistons that year were a 3 seed in the pathetic east only winning 54 games in a conference where the bottom 4 seeded teams are all less than .500. 54 wins in the east in 04 is equivalent to 48 wins in the west, which would make them a 6 or 7 seed. Hardly the credentials of "the best starting 5 of all time". :rolleyes: They were 18 out of 29 in offense. Truly any team that could be mentioned in the greatest starting 5 of all time conversation would not be in the bottom 48% of the league in offense the year they won the title.

To all of you guru's who will say that they were the best defensive team of this generation, I give you this chart:http://celticshub.com/2009/10/09/the-greatest-defensive-teams-of-the-modern-era/

Clearly, when you crunch the numbers, they are rated as the 5th best defensive team of the modern era. One would think that a team with the greatest starting 5 of all time would at least be the best defensive team of their era especially considering that they were not even in the top 15 in offense the year they won the title. :facepalm:

Lets just be honest and call the 04 Pistons what they were...plain lucky. They had a great run sure and got hot at the right time, no one is doubting that. But many things had to fall in line for them to win that ring. Many lucky breaks against NJ, a miracle half court shot in the ECF, and injuries to Malone, George, and Fox all played a part in their miraculous run to a title. Also, the officials got caught up in the hype of their "Rocky Balboa" like title run by clearly favoring them with calls, awarding them over double the amount of free throw attempts that the Lakers had. 150 FT attempts for the Pistons, and 75 FT's for the Lakers. There was much hate that years against Kobe Bryant fresh off rape charges and much love for any team that could take the "evil" Lakers down. The cinderella like story that Detroit had that year coupled with Laker hate being at an all time hight that year really helped them get a huge advantage with the refs.

They couldn't even repeat the next year. One would think that the "greatest starting five of all time" would have been able to go back to back at least one. I mean, they lost in 05 to the Spurs. That alone proves that the 05 Spurs were obviously better, thus disproving this outlandish claim that the 04 Pistons were the greatest starting 5 of all time. The Pistons were lucky that it was the injury plagued Lakers that happened to come out of the west that year, because if it would have been the Timberwolves, Spurs, or the Kings they would have been fodder.

Way to try and prove your point bro:clap:

But seriously,did anybody really read all this crap??

apocalypse15
08-20-2012, 07:01 PM
92 team is the same starting 5.. Obviously the bulls had the goat but as far as 5on5....

Chauncey>>>>>>>armstrong

rip<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<jordan

prince<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<pippen

sheed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>grant

ben>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cartwright

fixed

apocalypse15
08-20-2012, 07:05 PM
No way prince is at Pippens level. Pippen would shat on him all day everyday.

Cal827
08-20-2012, 07:09 PM
I honestly am laughing my arse off right now. Not only because the 04 pistons are not even in the top 20 of greatest starting 5's of all time, but because of how much help from the refs they got to beat a depleted Lakers team for the title. Not only that, they barely made it through the weak east to even make the finals.

Here is a list of starting 5's that were better than the 04 Pistons....

2012 Heat
2012 Thunder
2012 Spurs
2011 Mavs
2011 Heat
2010 Lakers
2010 Celtics
2009 Lakers
2008 Celtics
2008 Lakers
2007 Spurs
2007 Suns
2006 Heat
2006 Mavs
2005 Suns
2005 Spurs
2005 Mavs
2004 Lakers - were completely robbed in the finals by the refs and even if you argue they weren't, their lack of health robbed them as well and a full healthy squad would have swept them easy.
2004 Spurs
2004 Timberwolves - if healthy
2004 Kings


etc....need I go on. They are not even in the top 50 of all time IMO.

BTW LMFAO at you saying that each of them was top 5 at their respective position. :facepalm:

Well since you are basically saying that most teams have a better starting 5 than the Pistons, might as well add some:

2012 Charlotte Bobcats
2013 Orlando Magic
2006 LA Dodgers
2008 Red Sox
2010 Skip Bayless
The Fab 5
The Jackson 5
Party of 5

:D

mavwar53
08-20-2012, 07:40 PM
87Lakers Ac green<<<< Sheed
86 Celtics Ainge<<<< Rip
85 Lakers Rambis<<<< Sheed
08 Celtics Rondo,Perkins, and Allen<<<<<Billups,Ben,and Rip.. On offense Ray was just a better 3 point shooter.. Rip was a better scorer. Not to mention he was a monster on defense. Ray Allen?? meh.You have to realize what i am talking about. At each position they had no weak links. Could guard you man to man with no help. And had 4 dynamic scorers.. As far as offense defense they are the most balanced team
Explain how i am wrong??:eyebrow:

Sorry dude you are a moron, you keep explaining how 1 player isn't as good as the player on the pistons at that position, you do realize you are then conceding that the other 4 players are better than the other 4 on the pistons right? :facepalm:

Chronz
08-20-2012, 09:53 PM
Sorry dude you are a moron, you keep explaining how 1 player isn't as good as the player on the pistons at that position, you do realize you are then conceding that the other 4 players are better than the other 4 on the pistons right? :facepalm:

Hes incapable of complex thoughts. So no

Clutch1
08-20-2012, 10:01 PM
Wow you're argument is so weak I just don't know where to begin. The 04 Pistons were the most overrated team of all time. A true cinderella and feel good story yes, but best of all time...thats an insult to many who truly deserve to be in that conversation.

Look, the east is and was extremely weak back in 04, in fact the 04 Pistons, 06 Heat, and the 08 Celtics were the only teams to win a championship in the 2000's decade. Thats 3 out of 10 years that an eastern team won it all. The Pistons barely made it out of the weak east and it took them 7 games to beat a team that the Lakers swept and destroyed just 2 years earlier. Without a miracle half court shot from Billups, the Pistons would have likely been eliminated by the Pacers.

The Pistons that year were a 3 seed in the pathetic east only winning 54 games in a conference where the bottom 4 seeded teams are all less than .500. 54 wins in the east in 04 is equivalent to 48 wins in the west, which would make them a 6 or 7 seed. Hardly the credentials of "the best starting 5 of all time". :rolleyes: They were 18 out of 29 in offense. Truly any team that could be mentioned in the greatest starting 5 of all time conversation would not be in the bottom 48% of the league in offense the year they won the title.

To all of you guru's who will say that they were the best defensive team of this generation, I give you this chart:http://celticshub.com/2009/10/09/the-greatest-defensive-teams-of-the-modern-era/

Clearly, when you crunch the numbers, they are rated as the 5th best defensive team of the modern era. One would think that a team with the greatest starting 5 of all time would at least be the best defensive team of their era especially considering that they were not even in the top 15 in offense the year they won the title. :facepalm:

Lets just be honest and call the 04 Pistons what they were...plain lucky. They had a great run sure and got hot at the right time, no one is doubting that. But many things had to fall in line for them to win that ring. Many lucky breaks against NJ, a miracle half court shot in the ECF, and injuries to Malone, George, and Fox all played a part in their miraculous run to a title. Also, the officials got caught up in the hype of their "Rocky Balboa" like title run by clearly favoring them with calls, awarding them over double the amount of free throw attempts that the Lakers had. 150 FT attempts for the Pistons, and 75 FT's for the Lakers. There was much hate that years against Kobe Bryant fresh off rape charges and much love for any team that could take the "evil" Lakers down. The cinderella like story that Detroit had that year coupled with Laker hate being at an all time hight that year really helped them get a huge advantage with the refs.

They couldn't even repeat the next year. One would think that the "greatest starting five of all time" would have been able to go back to back at least one. I mean, they lost in 05 to the Spurs. That alone proves that the 05 Spurs were obviously better, thus disproving this outlandish claim that the 04 Pistons were the greatest starting 5 of all time. The Pistons were lucky that it was the injury plagued Lakers that happened to come out of the west that year, because if it would have been the Timberwolves, Spurs, or the Kings they would have been fodder.

First off, they were a 2 seed. What half court shot in the ECF are you talking about? Stfu with all the "luck" and "what ifs" cuz it happened.
You clearly don't understand the statement of THE 2004 PISTONS STARTING LINEUP. NOT THE 05 or the 03. The 04. The pistons starting lineup in 04 would beat every team you listed :facepalm: