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Mile High Champ
08-17-2012, 08:59 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last four years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. The season is now over and the Heat have been crowned NBA champs which means its time to kick off the off-season player rankings.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron was labelled by some as Choke Artist in the clutch and now this year had one of the greatest finals performances in recent memory. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 4 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best


2012 Off-Season PSD PF Rankings

1) Kevin Love
2) Dirk Nowitzki
3) LaMarcus Aldridge
4) Chris Bosh
5) Pau Gasol
6) Blake Griffin
7) Josh Smith
8) Zach Randolph
9)
10)


2011 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Dirk Nowitzki
2) Amare Stoudemire
3) Pau Gasol
4) Zach Randolph
5) Chris Bosh
6) LaMarcus Aldridge
7) Kevin Love
8) Blake Griffin
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Josh Smith

2010 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Pau Gasol
2) Dirk Nowitzki
3) Tim Duncan
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Carlos Boozer
7) Kevin Garnett
8) Josh Smith
9) David Lee
10) Zach Randolph

2009 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Dirk Nowitzki
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Pau Gasol
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Antawn Jamison
9) Rashard Lewis
10) David West

2008 Off-Season PF rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Amare Stoudemire
4) Chris Bosh
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Elton Brand
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Pau Gasol
9) Antawn Jamison
10) David West

Mile High Champ
08-17-2012, 09:00 PM
Sorry for the delay, I have been on vacation.

Cheers

Mr. Baller
08-17-2012, 09:04 PM
Went Serge. Would be ok with Millsap here too

Swashcuff
08-17-2012, 09:11 PM
Best two way PF left. Millsap. Just as good as Amar'e offensively way better defensively and a better rebounder. Way better than Serge offensively in many ways he's better defensively (maybe not overall) and also a better rebounder. Refined offensive game, good passer and versatile? Yeah I take Millsap here pretty handily.

bholly
08-17-2012, 09:21 PM
Went Serge. Would be ok with Millsap here too

Had the same thoughts.

Have to consider Amar'e based on past performance, but given this is supposed to be a 'right now' sort of ranking, I couldn't go with him.

I actually sort of think the non-Amar'e vote will end up getting split between Millsap and Serge and Amar'e will come out on top because of the past performance and star power, but whatever.

GoPacers33
08-17-2012, 09:26 PM
Amare

knicksfan42
08-17-2012, 09:26 PM
All the Amare fan girls going to blindly vote for him here might as well close this thread now.


his WS (16TH amongst PFs), David Lee (8th), Millsap (5th). PER (18th among PFs), Millsap (4th), Lee (10th). TRR (15th among PFs), Millsap (9th), Lee (11th). TS% (14th), Lee (10th), Millsap (11th). EFF (14TH), Lee (5th), Millsap (7th). TOV% (5th), Lee (8th), Millsap (16th). Oh and of course there is the fact that Amare is a worse defender than both of them. Amare is also an injury prone imbecile.

http://www.hoopdata.com/advancedstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2012&gp=30&mins=25


Ibaka and Ilyasova better too.

knicksfan42
08-17-2012, 09:32 PM
Millsap, Ilyasova, Ibaka, Anderson all better than Amare.



Edit: Boozer and Brand are better too.

jimm120
08-17-2012, 09:34 PM
Ibaka needs to go in at some point.

Still, Amare here. SHould have been above Zach Randolph. Zach just doesn't deserve to be there considering his year.

Millsap? No way. He's good but really....

knicksfan42
08-17-2012, 09:39 PM
Ibaka needs to go in at some point.

Still, Amare here. SHould have been above Zach Randolph. Zach just doesn't deserve to be there considering his year.

Millsap? No way. He's good but really....



You know what? This year Amare does deserve to be above Randolph....... at number 15.


Yea Millsap is just a better scorer, rebounder, defender, passer, and has a much higher IQ, but other than that Amare is way better.

Ezio
08-17-2012, 09:40 PM
Boozer is not even gonna make this and he had a better season than most.

Mr. Baller
08-17-2012, 09:41 PM
Boozer's reputation went down the ******* when he couldn't see the court in 4th quarters over Taj

greg_ory_2005
08-17-2012, 09:44 PM
Are we supposed to be voting for the best PF? Or the best PF last season?

Angry Norwegian
08-17-2012, 09:48 PM
I vote for 'Not Amare'.

jimm120
08-17-2012, 10:34 PM
You know what? This year Amare does deserve to be above Randolph....... at number 15.


Yea Millsap is just a better scorer, rebounder, defender, passer, and has a much higher IQ, but other than that Amare is way better.

I never said where. :)

but you're too critical. I'd put mare at #7 this year or #6. Millsap is good and all, but not in the top 10. Randolph was just fail.

Amare and Ibaka are definitely top 10.

JasonJohnHorn
08-18-2012, 12:04 AM
What about David Lee! He almost put up a 20/10 season. This kid shows up every game and busts his @$$ off. He deserves some love.

Ezio
08-18-2012, 01:14 AM
Boozer's reputation went down the ******* when he couldn't see the court in 4th quarters over Taj

Rotations. If the Bulls had a better defender in a PG, Rose wouldn't be out there as well.

WhiteSoxGod
08-18-2012, 01:17 AM
I vote for 'Not Amare'.

Totally agree, Amare shouldn't even be on this list.

NBA-GMaster
08-18-2012, 04:50 AM
No. 9 to Amare then 10 to IBAKA!!

Swashcuff
08-18-2012, 07:21 AM
Rotations. If the Bulls had a better defender in a PG, Rose wouldn't be out there as well.

This has to be the WORST post I've read in quite some time. Rose was a top 10 defensive PG some can even argue top 5. Boozer wasn't even top 30. This is flat out WRONG.

unleashthebeast
08-18-2012, 07:56 AM
Glad to see Milsap getting some love here. I think he is one of the most underrated players in the entire league.

Knicks21
08-18-2012, 08:35 AM
Millsap here.

xxplayerxx23
08-18-2012, 11:07 AM
Millsap, Ilyasova, Ibaka, Anderson all better than Amare.



Edit: Boozer and Brand are better too.

No on the bolded. Yes on Milsap.

dalton749
08-18-2012, 11:13 AM
Guy from Toronto can't even put bargnani in the discussion :facepalm:

knicksfan42
08-18-2012, 11:27 AM
No on the bolded. Yes on Milsap.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. Every single one of the those players was better than Amare this year and I have the stats to back it up.


Oh I forgot Lee, he's also better than Amare.

Sadds The Gr8
08-18-2012, 11:29 AM
Guy from Toronto can't even put bargnani in the discussion :facepalm:

I don;'t know if you're joking around, but he shouldn't be in the discussion.

tredigs
08-18-2012, 11:30 AM
Like I said in the last PF thread, it is funny just how easily media will distort reality for people. David Lee and his 20/10/3 on >50% from the field makes him better at basketball than Amar'e Stoudemire at this point. It's not debatable, and that likely won't be changing. He's also better than Z-Bo.

The argument here for people who actually know basketball is between Millsap, Lee and Ibaka.

knicksfan42
08-18-2012, 11:42 AM
Like I said in the last PF thread, it is funny just how easily media will distort reality for people. David Lee and his 20/10/3 on >50% from the field makes him better at basketball than Amar'e Stoudemire at this point. It's not debatable, and that likely won't be changing. He's also better than Z-Bo.

The argument here for people who actually know basketball is between Millsap, Lee and Ibaka.

I love David Lee (hence the 42 in my username), but he wasn't better than Millsap this season. Millsap beats him in PER (21.8 vs 19.7), TRB% (15.4% vs 14.6%), ORtg (113 vs 108), WS (7.8 vs 5), and WS/48 .179 vs (.113). Millsap is also a much better defender. There really isn't a case for Lee over Millsap.

xnick5757
08-18-2012, 11:54 AM
(P36) 12.1 PPG | 10.0 RPG | 4.8 BPG

19.0 PER | .556 TS% | .536 eFG%

13.2 ORB% | 18.2 DRB% | 9.8 BLK%

113 ORtg | 98 DRtg

6.2 WS | .167 WS/48



guess who

and he is likely going #11

tredigs
08-18-2012, 11:56 AM
I love David Lee (hence the 42 in my username), but he wasn't better than Millsap this season. Millsap beats him in PER (21.8 vs 19.7), TRB% (15.4% vs 14.6%), ORtg (113 vs 108), WS (7.8 vs 5), and WS/48 .179 vs (.113). Millsap is also a much better defender. There really isn't a case for Lee over Millsap.

I'd agree that Millsap was/is better than Lee, and even though he's less refined it's arguably take Ibaka's production over either. But to me those are the 3 to talk about in these two slots.

xnick5757
08-18-2012, 11:57 AM
I'd agree that Millsap was/is better than Lee, and even though he's less refined it's arguably take Ibaka's production over either. But to me those are the 3 to talk about in these two slots.

millsap

ibaka

lee




would be my order. millsap vs ibaka up for debate though, ibaka defense is just so good

StarvingKnick22
08-18-2012, 12:19 PM
you didnt have to do this because amare was clearly in 2nd place for 8th spot in the other poll.

knicksfan42
08-18-2012, 12:29 PM
I'd agree that Millsap was/is better than Lee, and even though he's less refined it's arguably take Ibaka's production over either. But to me those are the 3 to talk about in these two slots.

If you agree then why did you vote for Lee.

tredigs
08-18-2012, 12:44 PM
If you agree then why did you vote for Lee.

Because I'm a Warriors fan and based on the last poll results knew Amare would be 1st or 2nd in votes and D. Lee would not have any. So I make the vote for him and showcase that I think he's better than Amare. Which is true.

I don't actually care who wins these things (hence not voting for Millsap), just voted to make a little point (that being Lee > Amare).

Dade County
08-18-2012, 01:08 PM
SO you crazy *** posters are going to leave Serge Ibaka out of the Top 10 because of Amare past season's performances (he didn't dominate this season)...smh

This is crazy

(Paul Millsap... I really don't know what to say about him)

DR_1
08-18-2012, 01:17 PM
Boozer gets so much hate :facepalm:

DoMeFavors
08-18-2012, 01:22 PM
Boozer gets so much hate :facepalm:

He was one of the best pfs at one point, now nobody talks about him.
Drose needs to get into the pick and roll with him all game

StarvingKnick22
08-18-2012, 01:26 PM
Boozer was trash this season

StarvingKnick22
08-18-2012, 01:26 PM
even more than stat

StarvingKnick22
08-18-2012, 01:26 PM
.

29$JerZ
08-18-2012, 01:32 PM
Amar'e did nothing this season to solidify his spot as a Top 10 PF. He regressed due to injury. Guys like Millsap and Ibaka did much more than he did.

Same goes for Zach but it's too late.

jimm120
08-18-2012, 01:54 PM
Millsap...lol

sixer04fan
08-18-2012, 02:09 PM
Is Amare really gonna miss the top 10? I voted for him here.

knicksfan42
08-18-2012, 02:10 PM
Is Amare really gonna miss the top 10? I voted for him here.

He doesn't deserve to be in the top 10.

Chavacano
08-18-2012, 02:18 PM
Serge Jonas Ibaka Ngobila.

DR_1
08-18-2012, 03:36 PM
Boozer was trash this season

:laugh:

roshan3ai
08-18-2012, 04:38 PM
Why is Amar'e winning :laugh2: I think he'll be much better this season but he was awful last year. Millsap was better on both sides of the floor

Mr. Baller
08-18-2012, 05:27 PM
Please somebody vote for Millsap

justinnum1
08-18-2012, 05:47 PM
ibaka or millsap

bholly
08-18-2012, 06:17 PM
I really wish I voted Millsap instead of Ibaka. Splitting the vote, just like I figured would happen. Oh well, I guess.

justinnum1
08-18-2012, 06:21 PM
i would take both ibaka and millsap over amare

Vinny642
08-18-2012, 06:23 PM
I went Serge but I could see how Milsap and Amare are higher

NYYCowboys
08-18-2012, 06:48 PM
I'm not Amare's biggest fan, but c'mon the guy had one bad year after being locked out w a major back injury from the season before and having no access to the proper training all offseason. He came back and was out of shape and it showed. To be voting him below the bums that went before and now Paul Milsap is stupid at least give him one more year before casting him aside.

Lucky.
08-18-2012, 07:44 PM
Someone has to vote for Millsap....

Jumba
08-18-2012, 08:08 PM
Millsap has to get this over Amare at least! If it was Millsap Serge at this point it would be tough, but Millsap outperformed Amare last season. Millsap was 4th in steals this year, 1st in steals as a PF. Always improving his game.

Baller1
08-18-2012, 09:54 PM
Ibaka.

Mr. Baller
08-18-2012, 10:07 PM
**** Amare got it :pity:

Baller1
08-18-2012, 10:39 PM
**** Amare got it :pity:

So dumb.

Gators123
08-18-2012, 10:39 PM
I demand a revote!

Mr. Baller
08-18-2012, 10:41 PM
Ill switch my vote from Ibaka to Millsap!

Kashmir13579
08-18-2012, 10:52 PM
imo Randolph went too early if he even is top 10 this year.

DoMeFavors
08-18-2012, 10:56 PM
Damn Amare pulled it out

WhiteSoxGod
08-18-2012, 11:44 PM
I meant to vote for Millsap but I accidentally hit Luis Scola.

DoMeFavors
08-19-2012, 12:18 AM
PF must be really deep if the Most Improved player Ryan Anderson wont even be top 14

Lucky.
08-19-2012, 12:31 AM
I meant to vote for Millsap but I accidentally hit Luis Scola.

So you miss clicked by 5 poll options?


Still, Baller changed his vote and WSG miss clicked (:eyebrow:).


Millsap>Amare

Swashcuff
08-19-2012, 12:50 AM
Question to the more respectable posters. Is the wrong Bulls PF on the list? Taj Gibson is the best defensive PF in the NBA IMO (Garnett currently plays the C) and as such deserves some sort of recognition even if he isn't starting. He's closing out the game ahead of a guy who many consider a top 15 PF in Boozer.

Baller1
08-19-2012, 12:51 AM
I'll change mine to Millsap as well, as long as it means Amare isn't getting a top 10 spot.

85BearsDefense
08-19-2012, 01:19 AM
ok here we go

PlayerA: 15.0 Points 8.5 Rebounds 19.79 Per 53% FG Took 12.8 SPG

PlayerB: 17.5 Points 7.8 Rebounds 17.73 Per 48% FG Took 14 SPG

Pick one. Lets here it.

jimm120
08-19-2012, 01:40 AM
PF must be really deep if the Most Improved player Ryan Anderson wont even be top 14

For some reason, people thought that Zach Randolph and Paul Millsap were top 10 PF's

...and from the looks of it, THOSE TWO only got on because people were "anti voting" Amare.

Amare, Ibaka should be in here.

Ryan Anderson....lets see. I don't think so yet but he would definitely be higher than Randolph and Millsap in my book

bholly
08-19-2012, 05:31 AM
I demand a revote!


Ill switch my vote from Ibaka to Millsap!


I meant to vote for Millsap but I accidentally hit Luis Scola.


I'll change mine to Millsap as well, as long as it means Amare isn't getting a top 10 spot.

If changing is possible, I'll change from Ibaka to Millsap, too - I said right at the beginning that it was close between them and both above Amar'e.

I'm not sure that's allowed, though - spoilers might just be a tough reality of polls like this. Even though Millsap would win a Millsap vs Amar'e runoff vote, and thus you'd think PSD see him as the better player, that's the price you pay for a simple system that people understand.

bholly
08-19-2012, 05:34 AM
The absolute worst thing would be declaring Amar'e and Millsap #9 and #10 in some order just because of this poll like happened for one of them last year (or the year before?).

There has to be a separate poll for #10.

I know nobody has suggested otherwise, I'm just saying it now in case MHC was thinking about it.

Ezio
08-19-2012, 08:10 AM
Question to the more respectable posters. Is the wrong Bulls PF on the list? Taj Gibson is the best defensive PF in the NBA IMO (Garnett currently plays the C) and as such deserves some sort of recognition even if he isn't starting. He's closing out the game ahead of a guy who many consider a top 15 PF in Boozer.

He's closing out games because Boozer got the lead.

jimm120
08-19-2012, 08:47 AM
Ibaka next

Millsap and Zach Randolph have no business being here

jp611
08-19-2012, 09:49 AM
Carlos Boozer just going to be left off? Dude played great last season... Top 10 in FG percentage... Pretty ****ing good for a guy whose main job is to space the floor

jp611
08-19-2012, 09:53 AM
Boozer was trash this season

Booz had a very good season, not sure where you got your information though

Swashcuff
08-19-2012, 10:23 AM
He's closing out games because Boozer got the lead.

The Bulls got the lead and in order to keep the lead they had to put their best two way team on the floor late in games. Gibson had a major role to play in that line up. That is arguably the most foolish excuse I've ever heard. Boozer didn't get anyone the lead the Bulls DEFENSE is what put them in a position to get leads, something in which Boozer had little to no roll to play and in order for them to not squander that lead late in game Boozer (the biggest liability on the floor) had to see as few minutes as possible.

Stop making up excuses for your player you should be demanding the most of a player who is suppose to be and is paid like the 2nd best player on the team when in reality he's struggling to even be 4th best. Boozer was poor and IMO any Bulls fan that's fine with that is content with mediocrity.

nycericanguy
08-19-2012, 10:51 AM
I'm a bit confused as to what we're supposed to be voting for...lol.

Are we going on LAST year? If so, how did Zbo get voted in ahead of guys like Milsap, Lee & Amare? I mean he averaged 11 & 8 on 46%. Even in Amare's worst year he put up 18 & 8 on 48%, very similiar to Bosh who went #4?

I mean Zbo only played 26mpg in 28 games!...lol. makes no sense for him to be on this list this year.

unleashthebeast
08-19-2012, 10:57 AM
Milsap here, then Amare to close out the top 10

xxplayerxx23
08-19-2012, 11:10 AM
:laugh: They want to change their vote after the fact. No Amare won :dance2: Lmao

StarvingKnick22
08-19-2012, 01:17 PM
YEAH BABY AMARE won. skip 10 cause it doesnt even matter. CENTERS

85BearsDefense
08-19-2012, 01:50 PM
the fact that Amare won was a joke, i didnt even cast a vote.

Ezio
08-19-2012, 03:13 PM
The Bulls got the lead and in order to keep the lead they had to put their best two way team on the floor late in games. Gibson had a major role to play in that line up. That is arguably the most foolish excuse I've ever heard. Boozer didn't get anyone the lead the Bulls DEFENSE is what put them in a position to get leads, something in which Boozer had little to no roll to play and in order for them to not squander that lead late in game Boozer (the biggest liability on the floor) had to see as few minutes as possible.

Stop making up excuses for your player you should be demanding the most of a player who is suppose to be and is paid like the 2nd best player on the team when in reality he's struggling to even be 4th best. Boozer was poor and IMO any Bulls fan that's fine with that is content with mediocrity.

Gibson can't even shoot outside the 3-9 mark and you are saying he's a two way player.

Lakers + Giants
08-19-2012, 03:31 PM
I'm disgusted at myself for forgetting to vote. . ****! I was gonna vote Millsap and I see that he lost by 1 vote!

:bang:

Can't believe amare won. . wow.

jimm120
08-19-2012, 03:58 PM
People should be "disgusted" at randolph being top 10...better yet, top8.


IBAKA nect

jimm120
08-19-2012, 04:01 PM
Honestly, people are "anti amare" voting.

Zachary is not top 10 considering his injury plagued season and in the 25 games he did play, he got 11 ppg and 6 reb on 46%.

Same with Millsap. Yeah, improved but still not this good

IBAKA NEXT

Swashcuff
08-19-2012, 04:33 PM
Gibson can't even shoot outside the 3-9 mark and you are saying he's a two way player.

Boozer can't even guard his grandmother's shadow. Gibson has greater two way value than Boozer.

jp611
08-19-2012, 04:38 PM
Boozer can't even guard his grandmother's shadow. Gibson has greater two way value than Boozer.

No he doesnt... Boozer is not a great defender but the Bulls team defense masks that and it's not a major liability as people want to make it out to be... Taj is awesome, I love him to death, probably my 3rd favorite player on the Bulls behind Derrick and Joakim but he's not more valuable as a two way player then Booz at this point because he's just not very good offensively