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View Full Version : Kobe Bryant and Lebron James Appreciation Threads



AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 12:52 PM
On this forum, Kobe Bryant and Lebron James both have received so much criticism--perhaps more criticism than they receive in the real world.


I think it was when they won the Gold Medal together that I realized that Kobe Bryant is at the end of the road in his basketball career. He will never play in the Olympics ever again. Lebron James completely dominated the Olympics. I have never seen a player that can dominate the game in so many ways.

These two are the greatest players I have ever seen in my entire lifetime. (Born in 1993, I only watched Jordan play in 2002 when he made his final comeback.)

With both players, I never really fell in love with their character especially in their younger years, but as Bryant has aged I've fallen in love with his perspective and intelligence. Lebron James is maturing, and I'm sure I'll feel the same about him when he is in his mid 30's.

Let's show some appreciation for two of some of the greatest basketball players ever. They deserve it.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 12:54 PM
In regards, to Kobe Bryant, I've never seen someone maximize their abilities like he has. He may never have had the talent or athleticism as Jordan, but he surely did his very best to emulate the success that Jordan have.

In regards to Lebron, he reminds me so much of a blend of Magic Johnson and Scottie Pippin. He may never be the scorer that Kobe or Jordan was, but he has impacted the game in ways that they never could.

xxplayerxx23
08-15-2012, 12:55 PM
Never heard of either

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 12:58 PM
Never heard of either

I'm guess you surround yourself with losers then.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 01:09 PM
I think I made this thread because we all saw how Tracy Mcgrady's career and Brandon Roy's career could come to a screeching halt.

You never know how good it is until it's gone.

xxplayerxx23
08-15-2012, 01:13 PM
I'm guess you surround yourself with losers then.

I know of a guy named Eddy curry, Is he good?

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 04:35 PM
I know of a guy named Eddy curry, Is he good?

He's better than Michael Sweetney if that's what you're asking.

Cal827
08-15-2012, 04:39 PM
I love the idea.... but In before Kobe/Lebron Haters ******* all over this thread... :dance:

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 04:55 PM
I love the idea.... but In before Kobe/Lebron Haters ******* all over this thread... :dance:

Fact: Toronto is my second favorite city in North America after New York City. Philadelphia is third followed by Montreal in fourth. Newark is fifth.


Fact: Kobe Bryant is a top 10 player all time and the second best shooting guard of all time.

Fact: Lebron James will end up being the best small forward of all time.

xxplayerxx23
08-15-2012, 05:04 PM
Fact:Lebron might be better then Kobe now but if not now he will be better then Kobe.
Edit:Im talking Career wise :)

Hawkeye15
08-15-2012, 05:07 PM
I feel lucky to have watched Kobe Bryant's career from beginning to end, and have always admired his tireless work ethic and hunger to improve every time he steps on the floor. Top 10 player of all time.

I love watching the physical specimen that is LeBron James, and think we are witnessing possibly the greatest talent to ever enter the league. He still has some career to play out, so I won't give my overall judgement yet.

C-Style
08-15-2012, 05:17 PM
Kobe is 2 Final MVPs away from being top 3

Lebron is just one from being in the top 10 and 2 to surpass Bird and 3 from being the 2nd GOAT of all-time

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 05:19 PM
I feel lucky to have watched Kobe Bryant's career from beginning to end, and have always admired his tireless work ethic and hunger to improve every time he steps on the floor. Top 10 player of all time.

I love watching the physical specimen that is LeBron James, and think we are witnessing possibly the greatest talent to ever enter the league. He still has some career to play out, so I won't give my overall judgement yet.

I agree with your response. Bryant paid his dues and won his championships.

Lebron might be the most talented to ever play the game after Jordan, but leading a championship run can truly define a legacy in my opinion.

Bryant has been an integral part of 5 championship teams. That has only augmented his bid as a top 10 player of all time.

For Lebron, winning one championship is definitely a start, but I think he has a couple more years left of sustained success before he can be called a top 5 player of all time. Right now in my mind, he is top 15 if he retired today.

JesusWears24
08-15-2012, 05:29 PM
I agree with your response. Bryant paid his dues and won his championships.

Lebron might be the most talented to ever play the game after Jordan, but leading a championship run can truly define a legacy in my opinion.

Bryant has been an integral part of 5 championship teams. That has only augmented his bid as a top 10 player of all time.

For Lebron, winning one championship is definitely a start, but I think he has a couple more years left of sustained success before he can be called a top 5 player of all time. Right now in my mind, he is top 15 if he retired today.

It just seems like a thread that hints at Lebron being the best ever but you are doing it in a way where no one will call you out for it. Kobe is one of the Greatest players to ever play, and he isnt done yet and by the time his career is over he will be the greatest ever.
Now Lebron is also one of the best all around players to ever play but you do also have to realize he has 1 ship, and the whole olympic MVP idea is stupid because the MVP was either Melo or Durant.

seikou8
08-15-2012, 05:39 PM
It just seems like a thread that hints at Lebron being the best ever but you are doing it in a way where no one will call you out for it. Kobe is one of the Greatest players to ever play, and he isnt done yet and by the time his career is over he will be the greatest ever.
Now Lebron is also one of the best all around players to ever play but you do also have to realize he has 1 ship, and the whole olympic MVP idea is stupid because the MVP was either Melo or Durant.

:rolleyes: chips are not we should judge player production and body of work should be.

topdog
08-15-2012, 05:41 PM
I think there is just a basic appreciation for guys who are good enough to warrant talk of surpassing Jordan whatever your personal view is of Kobe and Lebron.

Kobe works his *** off always coming back with more moves and skills each season. I kind of want to see him win another championship simply to keep the debate going about how he measures up to Jordan.

Lebron is a physical specimen who gained some respect from me for coming back from a title defeat and working on that post game and not being goaded into jumpers or relying on drives.

I hope Durant does like Lebron and takes the bitterness of defeat as a challenge to add to his game so that we can one day appreciate him like we do Kobe and Lebron.

Cal827
08-15-2012, 05:45 PM
Fact: Toronto is my second favorite city in North America after New York City. Philadelphia is third followed by Montreal in fourth. Newark is fifth.


Fact: Kobe Bryant is a top 10 player all time and the second best shooting guard of all time.

Fact: Lebron James will end up being the best small forward of all time.

Cool :)

Fact: When Nikdymez sees this thread, he's gonna go more bipolar than Dwight Howard in Orlando.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 05:59 PM
Kobe is 2 Final MVPs away from being top 3

Lebron is just one from being in the top 10 and 2 to surpass Bird and 3 from being the 2nd GOAT of all-time

I agree with this post.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 06:01 PM
It just seems like a thread that hints at Lebron being the best ever but you are doing it in a way where no one will call you out for it. Kobe is one of the Greatest players to ever play, and he isnt done yet and by the time his career is over he will be the greatest ever.
Now Lebron is also one of the best all around players to ever play but you do also have to realize he has 1 ship, and the whole olympic MVP idea is stupid because the MVP was either Melo or Durant.

I do not agree with you.

I think Kobe Bryant can be a top 5 player of all time.
I think Lebron James can be a top 5 player of all time.

Both are not done yet, and in the end, there will be room for both. They just have to prove it.

Longevity is key here.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 06:02 PM
Cool :)

Fact: When Nikdymez sees this thread, he's gonna go more bipolar than Dwight Howard in Orlando.

Fact: The Buffalo Bills should be moved to Toronto.

Fact: I do not know who Nikdymez is, but I hope he can contribute to this thread.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 06:03 PM
:rolleyes: chips are not we should judge player production and body of work should be.

Championships deserve to be part of the argument if the player was an integral player or leader in the championship run.

Kobe Bryant and Lebron James have BOTH been integral parts of their team's respective championships run(runs for Kobe Bryant).

BklynKnicks3
08-15-2012, 06:04 PM
I def appriciate Kobe. Lebron i hate to a level i never hated any athlete everything about him makes me sick except his talent. I would appricate if he he went to play in europe or soemthing and i neevr have to seem him again.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 06:06 PM
I think there is just a basic appreciation for guys who are good enough to warrant talk of surpassing Jordan whatever your personal view is of Kobe and Lebron.

Kobe works his *** off always coming back with more moves and skills each season. I kind of want to see him win another championship simply to keep the debate going about how he measures up to Jordan.

Lebron is a physical specimen who gained some respect from me for coming back from a title defeat and working on that post game and not being goaded into jumpers or relying on drives.

I hope Durant does like Lebron and takes the bitterness of defeat as a challenge to add to his game so that we can one day appreciate him like we do Kobe and Lebron.

I really hope Bryant can surpass Jordan in championships to keep the argument going as well. Of course, he would have to be an integral part of these championship runs. I still think Bryant has 2 or 3 more championships in him if everything goes his way.

Lebron gained my respect by carrying the Heat--not relying on the play of Wade or Bosh like he did in the 2011 Finals.

I know Durant will be a top 10 player of all time when it is all said and done. He just needs to be an integral part of a couple championship runs and win an MVP or a couple more scoring titles.

Aust
08-15-2012, 06:06 PM
Offtopic: FelixH. just threw a perfect game against the Rays

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 06:07 PM
I def appriciate Kobe. Lebron i hate to a level i never hated any athlete everything about him makes me sick except his talent. I would appricate if he he went to play in europe or soemthing and i neevr have to seem him again.

By even mentioning Lebron I think deep down you respect his game. You know he is an incredible talent. Putting Lebron's character aside, you have to know he is a top player in the world. That was put on display in the Olympics.


I appreciate Kobe Bryant much more now that I know he is closer to retirement.

Andrew32
08-15-2012, 06:17 PM
Kobe is great.
He has done enough to fairly earn the #10 spot on my GOAT list.
I don't see him getting much higher but maybe he could creep up 1-3 spots depending on how he finishes his career.

1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Wilt
10. Kobe

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 06:19 PM
Fact:Lebron might be better then Kobe now but if not now he will be better then Kobe.
Edit:Im talking Career wise :)

How can you say that they are even remotely close
Kobe more championships
All nba teams
Accolades
Better individual game
Lebron isn't close and if Kobe keeps winning championships his last 2-3 years in the league then i don't ever see Lebron passing Kobe

But since this is a appreciation thread I will say Lebron is the best in the nba right now with Durant a close 2nd

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 06:22 PM
It just seems like a thread that hints at Lebron being the best ever but you are doing it in a way where no one will call you out for it. Kobe is one of the Greatest players to ever play, and he isnt done yet and by the time his career is over he will be the greatest ever.
Now Lebron is also one of the best all around players to ever play but you do also have to realize he has 1 ship, and the whole olympic MVP idea is stupid because the MVP was either Melo or Durant.

I don't ever think Kobe can be the best ever but I do think he can finish in the top 3 with one more rings and if he keeps breaking more records such as passing Jordan and Kareem in points scored

FraziersKnicks
08-15-2012, 06:22 PM
It just seems like a thread that hints at Lebron being the best ever but you are doing it in a way where no one will call you out for it. Kobe is one of the Greatest players to ever play, and he isnt done yet and by the time his career is over he will be the greatest ever.
Now Lebron is also one of the best all around players to ever play but you do also have to realize he has 1 ship, and the whole olympic MVP idea is stupid because the MVP was either Melo or Durant.

This combined with the name kinda sum it up for me... :rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
08-15-2012, 06:23 PM
I think there is just a basic appreciation for guys who are good enough to warrant talk of surpassing Jordan whatever your personal view is of Kobe and Lebron.

Kobe works his *** off always coming back with more moves and skills each season. I kind of want to see him win another championship simply to keep the debate going about how he measures up to Jordan.

Lebron is a physical specimen who gained some respect from me for coming back from a title defeat and working on that post game and not being goaded into jumpers or relying on drives.

I hope Durant does like Lebron and takes the bitterness of defeat as a challenge to add to his game so that we can one day appreciate him like we do Kobe and Lebron.

I think the gap between Jordan and Kobe was settled a while back. Kobe has zip chance at GOAT, but being a top 7-10 player ever is nothing to laugh at. He has had an amazing career. I still think LeBron might catch MJ, but I figure its in the 5% chance area. Meaning, most likely hell no.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 06:25 PM
Kobe is great.
He has done enough to fairly earn the #10 spot on my GOAT list.
I don't see him getting much higher but maybe he could creep up 1-3 spots depending on how he finishes his career.

1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Wilt
10. Kobehttp://s1-03.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/569350985.gif?key=480270


Your list is so bad it's not even funny
Kobe should be closer to 5 then to 10

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 06:26 PM
Offtopic: FelixH. just threw a perfect game against the Rays

Off topic, you helped me make a solid Facebook status. Thank you.

Andrew32
08-15-2012, 06:26 PM
I don't ever think Kobe can be the best ever but I do think he can finish in the top 3 with one more rings and if he keeps breaking more records such as passing Jordan and Kareem in points scored
I think that is pretty ridiculous to think that.

Shaq for example if you compare him to Kobe as a playoff performer over 1, 3, 5, 7, 10 or even 13 years absolutely annihilates Kobe in terms of production, performances, consistency and impact.

Plus he has 10+ Super-Star seasons to Kobe who only has 4-5.

Even if Kobe manages to slightly surpass someone like O'neal in total All-Star level seasons the incredibly large difference in quality between them when comparing Prime / Peak or simply comparing them over the majority of their career will not change.

Quality matters.
Kobe isn't on the same level as someone like Shaq or Kareem as a playoff performer and no small edge in total longevity will make up for that.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 06:28 PM
I think the gap between Jordan and Kobe was settled a while back. Kobe has zip chance at GOAT, but being a top 7-10 player ever is nothing to laugh at. He has had an amazing career. I still think LeBron might catch MJ, but I figure its in the 5% chance area. Meaning, most likely hell no.

I know if ands or buts don't exist but if Kobe won 2 more championships and finished 2nd in scoring on the all-time list!

So let's say
7 championships
2nd all-time in scoring
4 finals mvp's
Where would you rank Kobe in assuming in your top 5 right? Possibly top 3

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 06:29 PM
Kobe is great.
He has done enough to fairly earn the #10 spot on my GOAT list.
I don't see him getting much higher but maybe he could creep up 1-3 spots depending on how he finishes his career.

1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Wilt
10. Kobe

Right now, I would say the following:

1. Jordan
2. Chamberlain
3. Russell
4. Kareem
5. Bryant
6. O'Neal
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Oscar Robertson
10. Magic Johnson (career got cut short)

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 06:31 PM
I think that is pretty ridiculous to think that.

Shaq for example if you compare him to Kobe as a playoff performer over 1, 3, 5, 7, 10 or even 13 years absolutely annihilates Kobe in terms of production, performances, consistency and impact.

Plus he has 10+ Super-Star seasons to Kobe who only has 4-5.

Even if Kobe manages to slightly surpass someone like O'neal in total All-Star level seasons the incredibly large difference in quality between them when comparing Prime / Peak or simply comparing them over the majority of their career will not change.

Quality matters.
Kobe isn't on the same level as someone like Shaq or Kareem as a playoff performer and no small edge in total longevity will make up for that.

:facepalm:

Hey look how many championships shaq has 4 Kobe has 5 and his stats will shatter shaqs when he's done, hell he's already done a lot more then 4-5 guys on your list!
Longetivity matters

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 06:32 PM
Right now, I would say the following:

1. Jordan
2. Chamberlain
3. Russell
4. Kareem
5. Bryant
6. O'Neal
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Oscar Robertson
10. Magic Johnson (career got cut short)

I like your list besides magic he deserves to be in the top 5

FraziersKnicks
08-15-2012, 06:32 PM
How can you say that they are even remotely close
Kobe more championships
All nba teams
Accolades
Better individual game
Lebron isn't close and if Kobe keeps winning championships his last 2-3 years in the league then i don't ever see Lebron passing Kobe

But since this is a appreciation thread I will say Lebron is the best in the nba right now with Durant a close 2nd

All the things you give Kobe credit for are from him playing in the league almost a decade longer than LeBron. Of course he's gonna have more accolades, yet LeBron has more of the highest individual accolade you can have, MVP, and in that category it's not close with LeBron having 3 to Kobe's 1 (I'm pretty confident LeBron will get at least 5 when he retires).

Better individual game? Can you elaborate?

LeBron has a higher PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, BPG, FG%, very close on the 3 PT% (.337 to .331), PER, eFG% TS%, ORtg, lower DRtg, and ws/48.

Kobe wins comfortably in one category and that's FT% :shrug:

Also, just for the record, Durant isn't really close to LeBron, I think Bron showed that in the finals....

Fly
08-15-2012, 06:32 PM
Kobe is great.
He has done enough to fairly earn the #10 spot on my GOAT list.
I don't see him getting much higher but maybe he could creep up 1-3 spots depending on how he finishes his career.

1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Wilt
10. Kobe

lolz on lolz on lolz

BklynKnicks3
08-15-2012, 06:33 PM
By even mentioning Lebron I think deep down you respect his game. You know he is an incredible talent. Putting Lebron's character aside, you have to know he is a top player in the world. That was put on display in the Olympics.


I appreciate Kobe Bryant much more now that I know he is closer to retirement.

i respect his talent he is probably best talent ever i just dont respect him or his accomplishments he took shorts cuts that are unforgiveable

BklynKnicks3
08-15-2012, 06:35 PM
top 10

1) mj
2) Kobe
3) Bird
4) magic
5) wilt
6)kareem
7)shaq
8) Hakeem
9) Barkley
10) duncan

Andrew32
08-15-2012, 06:37 PM
#1.
Jordan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32
Top 5 : 30.16
Top 7 : 29.61
Top 10 : 28.89
Top 13 : 28.6

------------------------------------------------------------

#2.
Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52
Top 13 : 26.55
14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33

------------------------------------------------------------

#4.
Duncan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 28.4
Top 5 : 26.96
Top 7 : 27.49
Top 10 : 26.67
Top 13 : 25.4

------------------------------------------------------------

#5.
Kareem : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32.4
Top 5 : 27.4
Top 7 : 25.64
Top 10 : 25.42
Top 13 : 24.7
14th to 16th Season (3 Seasons) - 20.9
Last 2 Seasons : 12.85 (26.65 MPG)

------------------------------------------------------------

#15.
Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Top 10 : 22.98
Top 13 : 21.62

------------------------------------------------------------

lol @ Kobe being Top 3.

C'mon dude.

Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem were just better players, period.
I give him a tiny chance to surpass Hakeem but the other two are off limits.

Shaq had 11 Super-Star Seasons and 5-6 All-Star level Seasons
Kobe had 4-5 Super-Star Seasons and 8 All-Star level Seasons

Kobe hasn't even matched Shaq's longevity yet and Shaq was a much better player in terms of production/performance, consistency and impact AKA quality.

Shaq from 95-04 was better then Kobe has ever been.

FraziersKnicks
08-15-2012, 06:39 PM
Right now, I would say the following:

1. Jordan
2. Chamberlain
3. Russell
4. Kareem
5. Bryant
6. O'Neal
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Oscar Robertson
10. Magic Johnson (career got cut short)

I'm sorry but that list is awful... Kobe above Bird, Magic, Shaq?

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Shaq
6. Bird
7. Wilt
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. Robertson
11. Kobe

With his longevity, I see Kobe surpassing the Big O, hell I'd say those two are interchangeable for me at the moment. Kobe's just about top 10 all-time now, if he wins another finals MVP, I think he might go up a spot or two, but I don't think he'll ever crack the top 5. LeBron is the only current NBA player with a chance of doing that.

FraziersKnicks
08-15-2012, 06:43 PM
top 10

1) mj
2) Kobe
3) Bird
4) magic
5) wilt
6)kareem
7)shaq
8) Hakeem
9) Barkley
10) duncan

You're a Knicks fan so I'll go easy on you, but this list is a ****ing joke :facepalm:

Kobe #2? Above Magic, Bird, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem? You don't even have Russell in your top 10 which is blasphemy in itself. No Oscar Robertson, but you have a ringless Barkley?

JasonJohnHorn
08-15-2012, 06:45 PM
Kobe's a ballhog. We should be having Tim Duncan appreciation threads. Fawk this $#!T.

JasonJohnHorn
08-15-2012, 06:49 PM
top 10

1) mj
2) Kobe
3) Bird
4) magic
5) wilt
6)kareem
7)shaq
8) Hakeem
9) Barkley
10) duncan

Are you on crack? There is so much wrong with this list, I don't even know where to begin. Kobe cannot touch Magic or Bird. He's just not there. His game wasn't as complete as either of them. They were both amazing rebounders and passers, Kobe is above average at both, but no where near what these guys did.

And Barkley over Duncan and Garnett and Malone? Fawk! I loved Barkley and I wouldn't put him above any of those guys. And where the fawk is the Big O on this list? And Russell? Fawk.

Andrew32
08-15-2012, 06:57 PM
The highest Kobe can get for me is #7... maybe with a very weak argument for #6.
(Assuming he retires in 3 years).

However right now I have him at #10.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 07:04 PM
lol @ Kobe being Top 3.

C'mon dude.

Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem were just better players, period.
I give him a tiny chance to surpass Hakeem but the other two are off limits.

Shaq had 11 Super-Star Seasons and 5-6 All-Star level Seasons
Kobe had 4-5 Super-Star Seasons and 8 All-Star level Seasons

Kobe hasn't even matched Shaq's longevity yet and Shaq was a much better player in terms of production/performance, consistency and impact AKA quality.

Shaq from 95-04 was better then Kobe has ever been.

Lol nice but per is a useless stat it helps big man more then small players because guards handle the ball more which results in less efficiency lol Kobe with 1 more ring will be in the top 5 maybe top 3 in most peoples eyes probably not you tho h8tr

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 07:06 PM
Are you on crack? There is so much wrong with this list, I don't even know where to begin. Kobe cannot touch Magic or Bird. He's just not there. His game wasn't as complete as either of them. They were both amazing rebounders and passers, Kobe is above average at both, but no where near what these guys did.

And Barkley over Duncan and Garnett and Malone? Fawk! I loved Barkley and I wouldn't put him above any of those guys. And where the fawk is the Big O on this list? And Russell? Fawk.

Lol Kobe can't touch magic or bird lol Kobe already surpassed bird and hell I have him in a tie with magic but 1 more ring and Kobe will be the greatest laker ever

FraziersKnicks
08-15-2012, 07:08 PM
Lol nice but per is a useless stat it helps big man more then small players because guards handle the ball more which results in less efficiency lol Kobe with 1 more ring will be in the top 5 maybe top 3 in most peoples eyes probably not you tho h8tr

You're obviously not worth arguing with, but I'll humour you... How come Jordan has the highest career PER? How come Chris Paul and Dwyane Wade are both top 10 all-time in PER? How come LeBron, who handles the ball more than Kobe have the second highest career PER of all-time? All players that handle the ball more than Kobe?

FraziersKnicks
08-15-2012, 07:09 PM
Lol Kobe can't touch magic or bird lol Kobe already surpassed bird and hell I have him in a tie with magic but 1 more ring and Kobe will be the greatest laker ever

:laugh2: I give up.. You're truly clueless.

Matter.
08-15-2012, 07:12 PM
I wonder what happened to us appreciating Lebron and Kobe... Rather than making up a top 10 list and comparing players who were not even mentioned in the topic .... D:

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 07:19 PM
You're obviously not worth arguing with, but I'll humour you... How come Jordan has the highest career PER? How come Chris Paul and Dwyane Wade are both top 10 all-time in PER? How come LeBron, who handles the ball more than Kobe have the second highest career PER of all-time? All players that handle the ball more than Kobe?


Oh man just leave it alone!!! And I'm clueless we'll dude I can say the same for you I just think your mad at Kobe because he's always dominated your sorry *** team

Andrew32
08-15-2012, 07:30 PM
Lol nice but per is a useless stat it helps big man more then small players because guards handle the ball more which results in less efficiency lol Kobe with 1 more ring will be in the top 5 maybe top 3 in most peoples eyes probably not you tho h8tr

Call me a hater but I rank Kobe at #10 and say he could get as high as #6-#7.

Most people I think rank him closer to where I rank him then where you put him.

I can still respect your opinion though.

FraziersKnicks
08-15-2012, 07:32 PM
Oh man just leave it alone!!! And I'm clueless we'll dude I can say the same for you I just think your mad at Kobe because he's always dominated your sorry *** team

But you have no grounds to say I'm clueless... I'm not gonna waste any more time with you. You clearly have no idea what you're on about and cannot form a logical counter argument.

Andrew32
08-15-2012, 07:38 PM
Anyway back to the thread.

I appreciate the way Kobe takes care of his body and works hard to keep his individual ability.

Although I didn't like the way he played last season he did have some games where he performed really well even against good competition and it impressed me.
I look forward to watching how he performs with this new system and with Nash.

Lebron has just been a beast and I wonder if he can repeat his 2012 performance in 2013.
I don't think he has been the most consistent performer over his career so I wonder how he will play next year.
I have been really impressed with his defense.
He has been guarding multiple positions the whole year and even in the Olympics and he shuts down whoever he guards.

He is just at another level right now.

ThunderousDemon
08-15-2012, 07:41 PM
The highest Kobe can get for me is #7... maybe with a very weak argument for #6.
(Assuming he retires in 3 years).

However right now I have him at #10.

That's good to know.

Vee-Rex
08-15-2012, 07:55 PM
To the original poster:

It's sad but this type of thread will never work on PSD. People are too biased, and they will immediately start comparing players to others instead of giving them their props.

Personally, I appreciate the game of Kobe, Duncan, and Garnett. These players are pretty much the last great players of the 1990's era.

Kobe's game was developed after Michael Jordan's, and it seems he hasn't had a successor to pass it on to. It will suck to see the end of that. Kobe did a lot of great things and when he retires the NBA will feel it IMO. His finesse is probably the best we ever seen from a guard in the NBA, as Jordan was a little more raw/straightforward with his abilities. People compare the two but I see the difference and although they're similar, I don't think we'll quite see another player like Kobe in our lifetimes.

LBJ dominates the game, and fortunately for us it looks like we still got a lot of years left to watch his greatness. There will always be new great players, but LBJ has dominated the game in a very rare way. He can literally do just about anything on the court, and people don't seem to realize what kind of greatness they're seeing. Whether you love him or love to hate him, his talent is undeniable.

This is the type of post that should be in this thread but unfortunately PSD is too immature for that.

MintBerryCrunch
08-15-2012, 08:02 PM
Kobe is the second greatest ever to play the game.

By The time LeBron retires, he very well could be the greatest player ever.

Hawkeye15
08-15-2012, 08:11 PM
I know if ands or buts don't exist but if Kobe won 2 more championships and finished 2nd in scoring on the all-time list!

So let's say
7 championships
2nd all-time in scoring
4 finals mvp's
Where would you rank Kobe in assuming in your top 5 right? Possibly top 3

I personally feel no matter what he does, his peak statistically just isn't enough to put him with the top few players. I have him #8 right now, I am fairly certain that is where I will have him at the end of his career, unless LeBron at that point has bumped him down 1.

Hawkeye15
08-15-2012, 08:13 PM
MJ
Wilt
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Russell
Shaq
Kobe
Hakeem
Duncan

that is mine, more or less

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-15-2012, 08:46 PM
Kobe's a ballhog. We should be having Tim Duncan appreciation threads. Fawk this $#!T.

Reported for dodging the filter. :)

JJ_JKidd
08-15-2012, 08:46 PM
Two greatest of their generation. Not All-Time. People always use ALL TIME when the world has yet to end.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 08:51 PM
I personally feel no matter what he does, his peak statistically just isn't enough to put him with the top few players. I have him #8 right now, I am fairly certain that is where I will have him at the end of his career, unless LeBron at that point has bumped him down 1.

I respect your opinion and all but you seriously wouldnt have him ahead of magic bird Duncan shaq and a few others of he accomplished that?

xxplayerxx23
08-15-2012, 08:59 PM
I believe Lebron will be ahead of Kobe when its all set and done.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 09:23 PM
I think the gap between Jordan and Kobe was settled a while back. Kobe has zip chance at GOAT, but being a top 7-10 player ever is nothing to laugh at. He has had an amazing career. I still think LeBron might catch MJ, but I figure its in the 5% chance area. Meaning, most likely hell no.

You can make the argument that right now, Kevin Durant has the best chance of catching up to MJ--not Lebron James. Kobe Bryant is closest right now, but unless he wins 2-3 more championships, 2-3 more scoring titles, MVP considerations, or 1-2 more finals MVP's, I do not think he is in the top 3 conversation.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 09:25 PM
I like your list besides magic he deserves to be in the top 5

Longevity does matter along with quality. If Magic had played 3-4 more seasons, he would be in my top 5 pretty easily.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 09:28 PM
I'm sorry but that list is awful... Kobe above Bird, Magic, Shaq?

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Shaq
6. Bird
7. Wilt
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. Robertson
11. Kobe

With his longevity, I see Kobe surpassing the Big O, hell I'd say those two are interchangeable for me at the moment. Kobe's just about top 10 all-time now, if he wins another finals MVP, I think he might go up a spot or two, but I don't think he'll ever crack the top 5. LeBron is the only current NBA player with a chance of doing that.

If Kobe plays 3 more seasons at these levels with another championship or two, I have him in my top 5. Remember, competition levels nowadays are much different than they were when Wilt was playing. You can even make the argument that Michael Jordan had it easier than Kobe Bryant did.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 09:31 PM
To the original poster:

It's sad but this type of thread will never work on PSD. People are too biased, and they will immediately start comparing players to others instead of giving them their props.

Personally, I appreciate the game of Kobe, Duncan, and Garnett. These players are pretty much the last great players of the 1990's era.

Kobe's game was developed after Michael Jordan's, and it seems he hasn't had a successor to pass it on to. It will suck to see the end of that. Kobe did a lot of great things and when he retires the NBA will feel it IMO. His finesse is probably the best we ever seen from a guard in the NBA, as Jordan was a little more raw/straightforward with his abilities. People compare the two but I see the difference and although they're similar, I don't think we'll quite see another player like Kobe in our lifetimes.

LBJ dominates the game, and fortunately for us it looks like we still got a lot of years left to watch his greatness. There will always be new great players, but LBJ has dominated the game in a very rare way. He can literally do just about anything on the court, and people don't seem to realize what kind of greatness they're seeing. Whether you love him or love to hate him, his talent is undeniable.

This is the type of post that should be in this thread but unfortunately PSD is too immature for that.

Thanks for the great post. I thought this would be a good thread.


I think Kobe Bryant can pass on his legacy of scoring dominance onto Kevin Durant. However, you're right, the shooting guard class right now in the NBA is weak.

LakersMaster24
08-15-2012, 09:32 PM
DONT MAKE THIS WONDERFUL THREAD IDEA INTO A KOBE VS LEBRON THREAD :pity:

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 09:32 PM
MJ
Wilt
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Russell
Shaq
Kobe
Hakeem
Duncan

that is mine, more or less

I have Kobe over Shaquille O'Neal. Why is Magic Johnson so high on your list as opposed to Russell and Kareem?

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 09:34 PM
Two greatest of their generation. Not All-Time. People always use ALL TIME when the world has yet to end.

The all-time list is updated all the time. They are the some of the greatest of all time, and the greatest of our generation.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 09:40 PM
dont make this wonderful thread idea into a kobe vs lebron thread :pity:

lebron and kobe thread !

Hawkeye15
08-15-2012, 09:50 PM
I respect your opinion and all but you seriously wouldnt have him ahead of magic bird Duncan shaq and a few others of he accomplished that?

I guess it would depend on how he did it. If Kobe finds the fountain of youth and returns to his peak statistics while winning titles, fine. But the fact is, if the Lakers win the championship this next year, its because of the amazing cast they assembled and they stayed healthy.

Hawkeye15
08-15-2012, 09:51 PM
You can make the argument that right now, Kevin Durant has the best chance of catching up to MJ--not Lebron James. Kobe Bryant is closest right now, but unless he wins 2-3 more championships, 2-3 more scoring titles, MVP considerations, or 1-2 more finals MVP's, I do not think he is in the top 3 conversation.

Durant isn't the 1-1 player either were at his age, and looks to be simply the most gifted scorer to ever play the game down the line, not the all around player a few others were.

bolts4ever
08-15-2012, 10:00 PM
When Kobe's is retired people he will have a top 3 resume all time and it will be the end of an era. Kobes is the last of the Titans that is TOTALLY fixated on basketball NOBODY PLAYS THE GAME LIKE KOBE.

I really be Kobe has influeced EVERY CURRENT SUPERTAR!! showing them the intensity and sacrifice it takes to be great and forced them look at themselves.(2008 Olympics).

C-Style
08-15-2012, 10:05 PM
I think the gap between Jordan and Kobe was settled a while back. Kobe has zip chance at GOAT, but being a top 7-10 player ever is nothing to laugh at. He has had an amazing career. I still think LeBron might catch MJ, but I figure its in the 5% chance area. Meaning, most likely hell no.

I agree with u Kobe hater :clap:

FraziersKnicks
08-15-2012, 10:09 PM
If Kobe plays 3 more seasons at these levels with another championship or two, I have him in my top 5. Remember, competition levels nowadays are much different than they were when Wilt was playing. You can even make the argument that Michael Jordan had it easier than Kobe Bryant did.

The chances are he won't though.. He already appears to be slower down, becoming less efficient, and he isn't gonna be relied upon as much as he has been. The odds are stacked against him.

Can you? Please make that argument.. I'd love to hear it.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 10:10 PM
Durant isn't the 1-1 player either were at his age, and looks to be simply the most gifted scorer to ever play the game down the line, not the all around player a few others were.

Like Dirk, Durant will be able to maintain his scoring prowess because of this very late into his career. Once he slows down, his length will help him maintain his efficiency.

b@llhog24
08-15-2012, 10:16 PM
I def appriciate Kobe. Lebron i hate to a level i never hated any athlete everything about him makes me sick except his talent. I would appricate if he he went to play in europe or soemthing and i neevr have to seem him again.

Weirdo.


I like your list besides magic he deserves to be in the top 5

Didn't you just say that longevity matters? :confused:


Lol nice but per is a useless stat it helps big man more then small players because guards handle the ball more which results in less efficiency lol Kobe with 1 more ring will be in the top 5 maybe top 3 in most peoples eyes probably not you tho h8tr

:facepalm:


You can make the argument that right now, Kevin Durant has the best chance of catching up to MJ--not Lebron James. Kobe Bryant is closest right now, but unless he wins 2-3 more championships, 2-3 more scoring titles, MVP considerations, or 1-2 more finals MVP's, I do not think he is in the top 3 conversation.

I doubt that Durant will ever be a good enough passer/defender to pass MJ.

b@llhog24
08-15-2012, 10:18 PM
MJ/Wilt/KAJ
Shaq
Duncan/Hakeem/Bird/Magic
Russell/Big O/Kobe/Robinson.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 10:32 PM
Weirdo.



Didn't you just say that longevity matters? :confused:



:facepalm:



I doubt that Durant will ever be a good enough passer/defender to pass MJ.


I did say longetivity matters but the things magic did in 13 years were amazing he was on his way to become the best ever, and he retired due to health reasons not because he was old but I believe magic was a bad ***! If Lebron had more championships i would rank him a lot higher but magic is still in the top 3 in assist I believe and top 3 in triple doubles 5 championships 3 mvps for a guy who didn't play long enough he sure accomplished alot more then Lebron and even Kobe but due to longetivity I believe Kobe will surpass him as the greatest laker ever and if Lebron wins 3-4 more championships then I believe he might surpass magic as well

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-15-2012, 10:33 PM
MJ/Wilt/KAJ
Shaq
Duncan/Hakeem/Bird/Magic
Russell/Big O/Kobe/Robinson.

Your list sucks wilt 2nd? Duncan and Hakeem ahead of magic? Robertson and Russell ahead of kobe lol

b@llhog24
08-15-2012, 10:41 PM
Your list sucks wilt 2nd? Duncan and Hakeem ahead of magic? Robertson and Russell ahead of kobe lol

Make a case or shutup.

b@llhog24
08-15-2012, 10:46 PM
I did say longetivity matters but the things magic did in 13 years were amazing he was on his way to become the best ever, and he retired due to health reasons not because he was old but I believe magic was a bad ***! If Lebron had more championships i would rank him a lot higher but magic is still in the top 3 in assist I believe and top 3 in triple doubles 5 championships 3 mvps for a guy who didn't play long enough he sure accomplished alot more then Lebron and even Kobe but due to longetivity I believe Kobe will surpass him as the greatest laker ever and if Lebron wins 3-4 more championships then I believe he might surpass magic as well

Everybody who is in the top 20 players ever were amazing, so I fail to see your point. All I'm saying is the reason why Magic is in this conversation is because of his prime/peak years. Just poking a hole in your "longevity matters" logic. It matters, but the question is how much? Once a player's body of work exceeds 10-12 years it's safe to say you've pretty much seen the best years of that player.

C-Style
08-15-2012, 11:00 PM
MJ
Wilt
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Russell
Shaq
Kobe
Hakeem
Duncan

that is mine, more or less

As a Kobe hater, where do u rank him if he leads his team to 1 more ring/Finals MVP?

C-Style
08-15-2012, 11:02 PM
MJ
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Wilt
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
Hakeem


My list.

Longhornfan1234
08-15-2012, 11:09 PM
MJ

Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
Hakeem
Duncan


The real list.

Moses, LeBron, Big O, and West below them.

C-Style
08-15-2012, 11:12 PM
MJ

Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
Hakeem
Duncan


The real list.

Moses, LeBron, and West below them.


Why Do you have Wilt so high on ur list, specially ahead of Magic and Kareem?

Longhornfan1234
08-15-2012, 11:27 PM
Why Do you have Wilt so high on ur list, specially ahead of Magic and Kareem?

Wilt was a better scorer, rebounder, defender, and passer than Kareem. My problem with Kareem is how little he won in the 1970's. The 70's was the weakest era in NBA history and he has a crazy physical advantage but yet gets just one title.
Magic and Kareem can't dominate on both ends like Wilt. The top 4 IMO are very close.

AndyfromNeptune
08-16-2012, 03:12 AM
Wilt was a better scorer, rebounder, defender, and passer than Kareem. My problem with Kareem is how little he won in the 1970's. The 70's was the weakest era in NBA history and he has a crazy physical advantage but yet gets just one title.
Magic and Kareem can't dominate on both ends like Wilt. The top 4 IMO are very close.

Arguably Kobe faced tougher competition than any player on the list other than O'Neal and Duncan who faced tougher frontlines.

Hotone1401
08-16-2012, 04:57 AM
I guess it would depend on how he did it. If Kobe finds the fountain of youth and returns to his peak statistics while winning titles, fine. But the fact is, if the Lakers win the championship this next year, its because of the amazing cast they assembled and they stayed healthy.

Couldn't you say the same thing about Bird's championships as well as Magic and Bill Russell as well? I have a hard time putting Kobe ahead of Magic still but I definitely have him ahead of Bird.

While Kobe was never the most athletic player in the league in any one season his career, his ridiculous skills work ethic and being the most fundamentally skilled ever to play puts him in the 5-7 range for me.

Let's not be foolish. If Kobe goes on to win 2 more championships in any fashion, he will have to be considered in everyone's top 5.

For Lebron, if he continues either success he is having and continues to grow as the player I now think he will, I think he will be a lock to be in the Top 5 as well and inching ever so much closer to MJ for the top spot if he can back it up with some hardware.

AndyfromNeptune
08-16-2012, 05:03 AM
Couldn't you say the same thing about Bird's championships as well as Magic and Bill Russell as well? I have a hard time putting Kobe ahead of Magic still but I definitely have him ahead of Bird.

While Kobe was never the most athletic player in the league in any one season his career, his ridiculous skills work ethic and being the most fundamentally skilled ever to play puts him in the 5-7 range for me.

Let's not be foolish. If Kobe goes on to win 2 more championships in any fashion, he will have to be considered in everyone's top 5.

For Lebron, if he continues either success he is having and continues to grow as the player I now think he will, I think he will be a lock to be in the Top 5 as well and inching ever so much closer to MJ for the top spot if he can back it up with some hardware.

I agree with you.