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View Full Version : how do we judge the greatest basketball player of all time?



spurs4#5
08-12-2012, 07:40 PM
Just wondering what criteria makes a player the greatest of all time...is it rings? Points scored? Did he revolutionize the game? Is hr the greatest champion of all time?

jayjay33
08-12-2012, 07:42 PM
Advance stats, of course!

Vampirate
08-12-2012, 07:51 PM
In all honestly it's kind of impossible to do this unless you have seen each and every great play.

blastmasta26
08-12-2012, 07:57 PM
There's no single criteria. Best thing to generally do is evaluate relative dominance. You almost certainly have to rely on stats since Wilt and Russel were before many people's lives. But the stats have to be used in context as well.

Rings are over-valued in individual analysis, no one does it alone. And based on just advanced stats, Jordan has an easy case for GOAT. Not to mention the accolades he has accumulated.

--23--
08-12-2012, 07:59 PM
For me it's a combination of things...How he revolutionize the game, How dominate he was during his era, Career achievements and then his rings.

NYKalltheway
08-12-2012, 08:02 PM
Advance stats, of course!


:facepalm:

mRc08
08-12-2012, 08:04 PM
It is really impossible to do... easiest just to say jordan

Bean
08-12-2012, 08:14 PM
We judge him by whether or not he was Michael Jordan.

Eg714
08-12-2012, 08:15 PM
Nobody's messing with Jordan for a while. Maybe if Kobe wins 3 more rings while being the number option we can let him in the conversation.

CB29
08-12-2012, 08:29 PM
We judge him by whether or not he was Michael Jordan.

Does anything more than that really need to be said?

JasonJohnHorn
08-12-2012, 08:39 PM
Well... there will never be another player as dominant as Wilt Chamberlain. Points, rebounds, assists. Can't even begin to count how many blocks he would have gotten had they kept track of that $#!T back then. And he played 48 minutes a game? Who has that kind of endurance.

That said... The Big O averaged a triple double. I mean, who will ever do that again?

And Russell won 11 rings! That's never going to happen again.

And Kareem? Forget about it.

Then there is some guy named Jordan, everybody seems to love hugging his nuts.

Who knows. It's so subjective.

JOhnnyTHaJet
08-12-2012, 08:41 PM
Some sort of algorithm that included how difficult that players time period was (I guess you could determine some sort of numbered scale), their averages, rings won, MVPs, and defensive percentages.

If someone could come up with something like that I think you could truly figure out who was the best player ever.

IKnowHoops
08-12-2012, 08:43 PM
1. Film
2. Stats
3. Wins vs. Consideration of surrounding team

This is all you need.

Truth: If Jordan had been on the MN timberwolves his whole career and continued to do what he did his first 7 years in the NBA which was ball up but not win a ring. he'd still be the greatest player ever. But he'd have no rings

blastmasta26
08-12-2012, 08:50 PM
1. Film
2. Stats
3. Wins vs. Consideration of surrounding team

This is all you need.

Truth: If Jordan had been on the MN timberwolves his whole career and continued to do what he did his first 7 years in the NBA which was ball up but not win a ring. he'd still be the greatest player ever. But he'd have no rings
As long as he was just as good in the playoffs, I'd probably agree with it. Although it would be hard to convince the masses, who are obsessed with rings.

GoPacers33
08-12-2012, 09:35 PM
well... There will never be another player as dominant as wilt chamberlain. Points, rebounds, assists. Can't even begin to count how many blocks he would have gotten had they kept track of that $#!t back then. And he played 48 minutes a game? Who has that kind of endurance.

That said... The big o averaged a triple double. I mean, who will ever do that again?

And russell won 11 rings! That's never going to happen again.

And kareem? Forget about it.

Then there is some guy named jordan, everybody seems to love hugging his nuts.

Who knows. It's so subjective.

x100

b@llhog24
08-12-2012, 09:39 PM
well... There will never be another player as dominant as wilt chamberlain. Points, rebounds, assists. Can't even begin to count how many blocks he would have gotten had they kept track of that $#!t back then. And he played 48 minutes a game? Who has that kind of endurance.

That said... The big o averaged a triple double. I mean, who will ever do that again?

And russell won 11 rings! That's never going to happen again.

And kareem? Forget about it.

Then there is some guy named jordan, everybody seems to love hugging his nuts.

who knows. It's so subjective.

+1

Aust
08-12-2012, 10:07 PM
The whole resume

Ezio
08-12-2012, 10:08 PM
Impact he has had on the game.

thekmp211
08-12-2012, 10:19 PM
1. Film
2. Stats
3. Wins vs. Consideration of surrounding team

This is all you need.

Truth: If Jordan had been on the MN timberwolves his whole career and continued to do what he did his first 7 years in the NBA which was ball up but not win a ring. he'd still be the greatest player ever. But he'd have no rings

basically this, well said.

pure talent is the hardest thing to truly encapsulate but it's possible. jordan was and is a transcendent icon, who just happens to have been the most talented, hardest working athlete the sport has ever seen.

tapajafri
08-12-2012, 10:19 PM
By watching Lebron play.

Chronz
08-12-2012, 10:24 PM
Nobody is ever consistent with how they rank players (myself included) so there are no barometers.

Gritz
08-12-2012, 10:44 PM
Greatest shoes

Losoway
08-12-2012, 10:46 PM
by watching lebron

Hawkeye15
08-12-2012, 11:04 PM
Dominance amongst peers, accolades, awards, statistics, the ability to lead, the ability to raise his game in the playoffs, winning rings if given talent, where they ranked throughout the years in their era, and overall numbers.

Pretty much going with that, but there is a lot more obviously. I don't really have a strict code.

Hangtime
08-12-2012, 11:15 PM
Ask 25 different basketball fans ranging in different ages and ask each one who they think the best player of all time is and see how many different answers you get. There is no definitive answer to that question. Everyone has there own criteria.

JWO35
08-12-2012, 11:28 PM
Wins above replacement Players....

No Fun League
08-12-2012, 11:55 PM
Well... there will never be another player as dominant as Wilt Chamberlain. Points, rebounds, assists. Can't even begin to count how many blocks he would have gotten had they kept track of that $#!T back then. And he played 48 minutes a game? Who has that kind of endurance.

That said... The Big O averaged a triple double. I mean, who will ever do that again?

And Russell won 11 rings! That's never going to happen again.

And Kareem? Forget about it.

Then there is some guy named Jordan, everybody seems to love hugging his nuts.

Who knows. It's so subjective.

I'd go with this. :D

basketfan4life
08-13-2012, 07:07 AM
No need to judge. It's Michael Jordan, easily.

IndyHeatjman
08-13-2012, 07:16 AM
No need to judge. It's Michael Jordan, easily.

^ Exactly...
Jordan changed the game forever.

BklynKnicks3
08-13-2012, 08:28 AM
career stats/rings/responsability for the rings/skill level/awards/clutch factor

dh144498
08-13-2012, 10:54 AM
larry bird's skills
mj's hands (lol), intangibles
hakeem's footwork
lebron's physique/athleticism

JordansBulls
08-13-2012, 11:01 AM
A player who has the combination of Winning, stats, accolades, and productivity and near the top in each of them.
Not to mention a bonus if the player was able to turn a franchise around that never won anything prior to them arriving into a multiple time champion/dynasty and being undefeated with HCA and never being upset in a playoffs series meaning having HCA.

I look at GOAT's in every sport the same. Guys who won enough, have the accolades and the stats and dominated there eras and was clearly the best of there own era. Thus the reason I have MJ for Basketball, Babe Ruth for Baseball and Wayne Gretzky for Hockey.

If I went for winning then in Basketball it would be Russell, in Baseball it would be Yogi Berra (10 world series titles) and in Hockey it would be Jean Beliveau (17 stanley cup titles, with 10 as a player)

MR.TRIPDUB
08-13-2012, 11:26 AM
basically jordan is the barometer. best offensively, great defender, bbiq off the charts, leadership, will and killers instinct unmatched. and this is probably the toughest to match: sustained peak. when he started winning, noone could stop him.

now compare your candidates to that. lebron is probably the closest if he continues his play but still a far second. (last years finals really hurt him in this comparison coz never did jordan play second fiddle to anyone in a series ever)

Iceman_9
08-13-2012, 11:27 AM
stats and championships...

ChicagoJ
08-13-2012, 02:32 PM
I think it would be easier to judge if fans were around during all the eras of the all time greats. Looking at stats from players like jordan is great, but for those who were around during that era and saw the guy play it's different. You get a better perspective when you follow the storylines and see the players perform week in and week out throughout their career.

TheWhiteMamba
08-13-2012, 03:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-EyRUgp9Mk&feature=player_embedded

Heatcheck
08-13-2012, 03:18 PM
We judge him by whether or not he was Michael Jordan.

there's your answer

joeystats
08-13-2012, 03:18 PM
Stats/Winner(Rings)/Clutch combination

Heatcheck
08-13-2012, 03:24 PM
basically jordan is the barometer. best offensively, great defender, bbiq off the charts, leadership, will and killers instinct unmatched. and this is probably the toughest to match: sustained peak. when he started winning, noone could stop him.

now compare your candidates to that. lebron is probably the closest if he continues his play but still a far second. (last years finals really hurt him in this comparison coz never did jordan play second fiddle to anyone in a series ever)

im sorry, but there was nothing second fiddle about lebron in the playoffs last year. Jordan had plenty help from scottie and Rodman

jayjay33
08-13-2012, 03:42 PM
:facepalm:

Your a little slow uh? :facepalm:

asandhu23
08-13-2012, 03:43 PM
If the league had to make rules to slow you down....

HesterJordan23
08-13-2012, 03:45 PM
im sorry, but there was nothing second fiddle about lebron in the playoffs last year. Jordan had plenty help from scottie and Rodman

he lost in the championship game and choked?

MR.TRIPDUB
08-13-2012, 07:40 PM
im sorry, but there was nothing second fiddle about lebron in the playoffs last year. Jordan had plenty help from scottie and Rodman
i guess you dont know what second fiddle is. im pretty sure he deferred to wade last year against the mavs. and not only did he lose, he seemed lost mentally.

but like i said in my post, his game has been incredible this past season... very jordanesque.

knickfan33
08-13-2012, 11:24 PM
Just wondering what criteria makes a player the greatest of all time...is it rings? Points scored? Did he revolutionize the game? Is hr the greatest champion of all time?

mmmm... be being michael jordan. if you watched him play, you know who the greatest of all time is. and why wont kobe or lebron ever surpass him? his fire for the game, this era's players dont have that toughness and desire to beat everyone the way he did, no, instead they gotta team up with other stars to get it done.

Heatcheck
08-14-2012, 09:10 AM
i guess you dont know what second fiddle is. im pretty sure he deferred to wade last year against the mavs. and not only did he lose, he seemed lost mentally.

but like i said in my post, his game has been incredible this past season... very jordanesque.

I must of misunderstood, i thought you were talking about this last championship.

joeystats
08-14-2012, 09:28 AM
mmmm... be being michael jordan. if you watched him play, you know who the greatest of all time is. and why wont kobe or lebron ever surpass him? his fire for the game, this era's players dont have that toughness and desire to beat everyone the way he did, no, instead they gotta team up with other stars to get it done.

Sorry but Kobe has always had toughness, fire for the game, and the desire to beat everyone the way Jordan did, might not be as good, but the toughness, fire, and desire has always been the same, but I do agree that most of this era are not on that level mentally.

TheScab
08-14-2012, 10:11 AM
Judge? Whats there to judge? Case was closed when #23 retired in 2003.

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 10:15 AM
GOAT Candidates.

1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Magic
____________________

Close but no banana.

6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Wilt
10. Kobe

dh144498
08-14-2012, 04:34 PM
undisputed #1 and #2: MJ and Kareem
both have a case for GOAT, MJ prolly edged out just by a hair in terms of championships/fmvps.

#3-5: russell, magic, bird (in no particular order)

#6-10: wilt, shaq, kobe, hakeem, duncan (in no particular order)