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View Full Version : Rank The Dwight Trade For The Magic



JasonJohnHorn
08-12-2012, 01:42 AM
Well, the Magic just hired a new GM and this was his first big test, and I must say he royally fawked it up beyond all belief. I mean, what did they even get back in this deal? NJ was willing to given them three quality starters (Lopez, Humph and Brooks) with 4 unprotect first rounders. This of course was turned down (?!?!?!?!?) and a trade involving three great players was presented, the three great players being: Dwight, Bynum and Iggy. Yet none of these players ended up in an Orlando uniform? And the draft picks they got? Protected. Protected lottery picks from playoff teams that all got better as a result of this trade. Fat lot of good those will do. Houston was offer a fist full of draft picks and were willing to take on some $#!TTY contracts as well, but nope, Orlando passed on them to.

This is Dwight Howard we are talking about! I know you are not going to get equal value in exchange for this guy, but seriously! They got nothing! Half the first round draft picks in this league aren't even in the league for five years, and fewer still are starters. You mean to tell me that they couldn't get one established player back for Dwight? WTF!?!?!??!


So, that said, on a scale from 1 to 10 (1 being they got laid by Gianna Michaels and Sasha Grey at the same time, and 10 being the got fisted in the @$$), how baldy did the Magic fawk this trade up?

Aust
08-12-2012, 01:46 AM
Another Dwight thread

And lol nice colorful language

Losoway
08-12-2012, 01:47 AM
:facepalm:

ThunderousDemon
08-12-2012, 01:49 AM
:horse:

PurpleJesus
08-12-2012, 01:57 AM
poll is confusing.

D12 fan
08-12-2012, 01:58 AM
Leave the Magic alone,PSD has bashed them enough.

Aust
08-12-2012, 02:00 AM
poll is confusing.

Did they majorly screw things up, or only just a little?

PurpleJesus
08-12-2012, 02:05 AM
Did they majorly screw things up, or only just a little?

so i rank the trade a 1 if i thought it was really bad?

knickfan33
08-12-2012, 02:06 AM
they didnt fawk up at all... smart trade for them, i'd take lottery picks and cap space over there other options any day.

they couldnt win a championship with dwight... so are they supposed to believe brook lopez is gonna make them a better team.

they got rid of there best player, all there huge contracts, they'll be getting top picks for the next few years, and cap room for good FA's...

good trade for magic.

#1chickhearnfan
08-12-2012, 02:08 AM
It's safe to say the magic got fleeced.

Mave1002
08-12-2012, 02:09 AM
adding insult to injury.

Jamiecballer
08-12-2012, 02:14 AM
i hadn't heard he was traded. i had heard he was donated.

AKA TheMamba
08-12-2012, 02:14 AM
:confused::confused: Magics got what they wanted young talent, cap relief and picks.... If they wanted Iggy or Bynum it could have been done, just saying.

UPRock
08-12-2012, 02:15 AM
To the Magics? 0, one of the worse trades ever, they should've gotten more talent. For the Lakers a 10, I don't have to say why.

Aust
08-12-2012, 02:19 AM
so i rank the trade a 1 if i thought it was really bad?

10 is HORRIBLE, 1 is bad

Raps08-09 Champ
08-12-2012, 02:20 AM
Worse than the Gasol deal in terms of what the receiving team got.

knickfan33
08-12-2012, 02:25 AM
its really dumb that people can't see how this works out for magic.... they get iggy or lopez or bynum and then what? be a mediocre team with no shot at a chip, no money for FA's and to good to get a decent draft pick... there rebuilding, and have a ton of cap and picks to do it.

Reyes6
08-12-2012, 02:26 AM
This is an awful deal for Orlando. For people saying they got young talent, picks, whatever... their goal was to rid themselves of long term contracts (only got rid of 1), get good young talent (Harkless), and draft picks (acquired playoff bound draft picks).

When you trade the best center for a mid-1st prospect and bad draft picks with no real cap relief, yeah this is a bad trade.

And I'm sure maybe in 5 years they may be a decent, even contending team, but it'll be due to them sucking so hard for 3 years and using their own early picks to get solid talent. It's not good management, it's quite the opposite.

Aust
08-12-2012, 02:41 AM
This is an awful deal for Orlando. For people saying they got young talent, picks, whatever... their goal was to rid themselves of long term contracts (only got rid of 1), get good young talent (Harkless), and draft picks (acquired playoff bound draft picks).

When you trade the best center for a mid-1st prospect and bad draft picks with no real cap relief, yeah this is a bad trade.

And I'm sure maybe in 5 years they may be a decent, even contending team, but it'll be due to them sucking so hard for 3 years and using their own early picks to get solid talent. It's not good management, it's quite the opposite.

They got rid of 3 contracts, and AA isn't good young talent? :eyebrow:
I agree, the picks won't be good. I think they could have squeezed a bit more value out of Howard.

knickfan33
08-12-2012, 02:41 AM
[QUOTE=Reyes6;23299755]This is an awful deal for Orlando. For people saying they got young talent, picks, whatever... their goal was to rid themselves of long term contracts (only got rid of 1), get good young talent (Harkless), and draft picks (acquired playoff bound draft picks).

When you trade the best center for a mid-1st prospect and bad draft picks with no real cap relief, yeah this is a bad trade.

And I'm sure maybe in 5 years they may be a decent, even contending team, but it'll be due to them sucking so hard for 3 years and using their own early picks to get solid talent. It's not good management, it's quite the opposite.[/QUOTE

by the time they have to give any lottery picks they get big money, any big contracts there left with are done.... and they got rid of two huge contracts, dont forget dwight.

Reyes6
08-12-2012, 03:15 AM
Afflalo is already in his late 20's, by the time this team might have any relevance he will be in his 30's. Also, isn't it about trying to get better through the draft and getting rid of cap to acquire potential free agents?

The only contract they got rid of worth noting is J-Rich and he is still a decent player. So basically if you took this trade back the Magic would only really lose 1 potential player in Harkless (who is a definite risk) and keep Howard.

I just felt like they did nothing to improve themselves for the future except for Harkless and Howard for a mid-1st is a joke.

USMCLaker
08-12-2012, 05:33 AM
its really dumb that people can't see how this works out for magic.... they get iggy or lopez or bynum and then what? be a mediocre team with no shot at a chip, no money for FA's and to good to get a decent draft pick... there rebuilding, and have a ton of cap and picks to do it.

Ding, ding, ding, winner, winner, chicken dinner. I guess only you and I are feeling this.

JordansBulls
08-12-2012, 05:25 PM
Why not use A - F

Byronicle
08-12-2012, 05:38 PM
how baldy?

Eg714
08-12-2012, 05:39 PM
I think it will all work out for the magic. They'll at least get a top 5 pick, probably first with how stern does it.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-12-2012, 06:00 PM
The Magic didn't want to take back any guy on a large sized salary that is only going to lead them to mid teen draft picks year after year. They want to be horrible this next year while making cap room and obtaining high draft picks with their own picks. It's really the best option to land them a star player and compete in today's game, its how they got dwight after all.

LakersKB24
08-12-2012, 06:16 PM
Accidently voted 1, poll is a little confusing.

The Magic got gangbanged by the Lakers, Nuggets and Sixers.
Trading away the best player of all assets involved and not ending up with the 2nd or even 3rd best player? I can't even feel sorry for that franchise, they had better offers.

LoneWolf
08-12-2012, 06:30 PM
Why anyone would want Brook Lopez and Chris Humphries on their team is beyond me. The Magicians did just fine in the trade. Other teams made out as well so the trade looks bad to the untrained eye.

icon1914
08-12-2012, 06:39 PM
Why anyone would want Brook Lopez and Chris Humphries on their team is beyond me. The Magicians did just fine in the trade. Other teams made out as well so the trade looks bad to the untrained eye.

I would not trade for an overpaid Brook Lopez... but even to the trained eye this trade does not help the Magic much... they should have dumped Turks contract or something... they getting lottery protected picks, from playoff teams... a few roleplayers??? They might as well let him walk... or trade him to a team that was willing to gamble him resigning and get better assets from them... sad... very sad... they single handily made The Lakers favorites this year...

tapajafri
08-12-2012, 10:18 PM
F-

Mave1002
08-13-2012, 01:01 AM
10. Sucky FO, sucky results.

MagicHero3
08-13-2012, 09:12 AM
to the OP- so i guess you know everything about every trade offer, and you should be a GM? get off your high horse. Henny is a professional, worked under SA front office AND OKC front office- im sure he knows what he is doing MUCH more than YOU.

LongIslandIcedZ
08-13-2012, 11:16 AM
Way to early to judge, but its not nearly as bad as some people are saying. It sucks they didnt get much back, but they didnt get stuck with Lopez contract, which is a plus. I really dont think Houston ever really officially offered that deal, or Orlando would have taken it.

It'll take a couple years, but they'll rebuild just fine.

mike_noodles
08-13-2012, 11:24 AM
One of the worst trades in NBA history as far as I'm concerned. Right up there with the VC to the Nets trade.

Edit: I voted 1, but I meant 10.

Iceman_9
08-13-2012, 11:26 AM
voted for 1 but i thought it was the worst..

macc
08-13-2012, 02:46 PM
It's funny how unintelligent some posters are in here when it comes to NBA trades.

People don't see an all star going to Orlando and they say "bad trade!" Yet that's not even what Orlando was looking for to begin with. Unless Orlando was going to get a superstar back for Dwight, their goal was to rebuild.

Now do you people saying it was a bad trade know what rebuilding is? I have to break this down barney style because once again, your posts show your very little intellegence to NBA trades. So I have to reply accordingly.

So if you know what "rebuilding" is, then ask yourself, why would Orlando want to take on a max contract Brook Lopez for Dwight? Is Brook Lopez someone you want to build a franchise around? Hmmmm, let's think real hard on this. Prob not right....Sure Marshon Brooks would be a nice addition, but people don't realize he's already 23 years old. Sure he can get better but he's not going to be a superstar by no means, he'll be lucky to be an all star. When you come into the leage at 23 yrs old you kinda are what you are if you're a peremeter guy. You start to see somones ceiling a little clearer. It's not the same as getting some 19 yr old with potential through the roof.

Orlando got alot of what they wanted with this trade. Got rid of the J Rich contract, as well as Duhons, picked up some nice young pieces, at this point Harkless has the highest potential (19 yrs old). Most importantly they have cap space, so now in the next couple years esp 2014 they'll have alot of money to spend on free agents. If the players they have now can prove to be great role players and border line all stars, then come 2014, alot of free agents will want to go to Orlando to be there guy, esp with a great supporting cast. Orlando will have the money to do so. If Orlando is as bad as they prob will be next year, they have a very high chance at getting a top 5 pic.

So in 2 years you're looking at a team consisting of 2 first round draft pics this year, some great role players, a top 5 pic next year, as well as money to potentially sign 2 max contracts in 2014. This isn't even taking into account the pics they have in future years they got from this trade, it's also not accounting for the 17.8 mil trade exception they got in this trade as well.

So to all you people who say it was a bad trade for the Magic, use some common sense and some basketball trade knowledge and get a clue. This is what rebuilding looks like. Getting players like Lopez, Gasol....ect is only going to make you a middle of the road team. Which is NBA purgatory.

Stop be so short sided and look at the big picture. Realize Orlando did this trade with only 2-3 teams to choose from.

SouthSideRookie
08-13-2012, 03:33 PM
to the OP- so i guess you know everything about every trade offer, and you should be a GM? get off your high horse. Henny is a professional, worked under SA front office AND OKC front office- im sure he knows what he is doing MUCH more than YOU.

RH apparently isn't who some people are making him out to be. This probably deserves it's own thread but I'll go ahead and post it here.


LONDON – It happens in Olympic years. The Lakers find a team foolish enough to give them a big man in his prime, and the Spurs feel worse for it.

Gregg Popovich did the previous time, in 2008, when Memphis traded Pau Gasol to the Lakers. Then, Popovich famously criticized the Grizzlies and said he wished he “had been on a trade committee that oversees NBA trades.”

This time, in this Olympic year, Popovich likely wishes the same. Only this time it’s different, because he knows the one who gave the Lakers their next edge.

Orlando general manager Rob Hennigan, after all, once worked in the Spurs’ front office as the next Sam Presti.

The four-team trade that sent Dwight Howard to Los Angeles is stunning. It helps everyone but the team that had the leverage, the Magic. Orlando gets role players in return without doing much to cleanse its payroll. No one is sure how high the Magic protected first-round draft picks will be, but there’s a chance not one of them will be a top-20 pick or will arrive until 2014.

Orlando would have done better calling Houston again, or by doing nothing. So what happened?

An explanation is this: Hennigan followed Presti yet again. Hennigan doesn’t want the Magic to be good. He wants to build from the ground up as Presti did with Seattle/Oklahoma City.

Hennigan saw firsthand. He left San Antonio to join Presti.

It’s one of many reasons the two have always been compared to each other. Hennigan graduated from Emerson College in Boston as Presti did. Hennigan began with the Spurs as Presti did. And Hennigan was hired by Orlando at age 30, the youngest GM in the league now, just as Presti was when Seattle hired him.

But here’s the difference: When Presti rebuilt his franchise, he never had the league’s best center as a chip.

Presti made changes, but he already had his asset in place. Kevin Durant had landed in his lap. As Presti went along, he used his high-draft picks well, hitting on both Russell Westbrook and James Harden. That’s the Presti the Spurs knew in San Antonio; they gave him credit years ago for zeroing in on Tony Parker.
Hennigan didn’t have the same stature in San Antonio. When he left to join Presti, the Spurs thought he probably needed to get out and try something else.

Telling, too, is that Hennigan wasn’t Presti’s No. 1 assistant in OKC. That is Troy Weaver. Presti has given Weaver credit for seeing more in Westbrook than others did, much the way Presti got credit for Parker.

Orlando considered Weaver, too. But he wasn’t a finalist for the job. Hennigan, ultimately, interviewed better with the Magic.

Maybe the Orlando president, Alex Martins, wanted someone such as Hennigan because Hennigan would be, in effect, his assistant. Maybe Martins, a man without a basketball background, influenced this trade.

If true, that’s another reason Hennigan isn’t another Presti. Presti runs his shop.

Either way, the deal that was finalized today will impact Hennigan’s standing. It will hang on him unless the Magic find a way to recover. Memphis did after trading Gasol.

Still, for Popovich and the Spurs, Orlando’s future is relevant. This trade changes the Western Conference. Presti’s Thunder will be better next season and shouldn’t be discounted. But now there are the Lakers, rejuvenated as if on cue in an Olympic year, someone holding onto Gasol while creating a Kobe-Nash-Howard combination.

What the Spurs thought before and likely do again: Hennigan isn’t Presti.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/buckharvey/2012/08/howard-to-lakers-–-blame-it-on-the-next-presti/

koberulesall
08-13-2012, 03:45 PM
Just goes to show how much better the front office is in Los Angeles than ANYWHERE else

macc
08-13-2012, 03:59 PM
Just goes to show how much better the front office is in Los Angeles than ANYWHERE else



hahaha riiiight. The location is what brings people to LA, not the FO. LA is hollywood. NBA players fall in love with the idea of playing in hollywood, as well as the perfect weather all year around. Thats why the Lakers will always get great players. Not taking everything away from the FO, but lets be real, ever since the NBA started, LA has had great teams. In all reality the FO has very little to do with attracking their big name free agents.

When you're an NBA superstar you want to play basketball but you also want to market yourself. A place like LA where you have millions of people watching everything you do everyday assists in that. Also most of the companies you have the oppurtunity to get huge endorsements for are headquarter in LA. Not to mention any potential movie role could be had there.

Let's take the entire Lakers FO and put them in Milwaukie. Let's see how many superstars are so welcome to coming there then. Oh wait......

macc
08-13-2012, 03:59 PM
RH apparently isn't who some people are making him out to be. This probably deserves it's own thread but I'll go ahead and post it here.



http://blog.mysanantonio.com/buckharvey/2012/08/howard-to-lakers-–-blame-it-on-the-next-presti/



That article was a whole lotta words to say nothing.

SouthSideRookie
08-13-2012, 04:01 PM
It's funny how unintelligent some posters are in here when it comes to NBA trades.

People don't see an all star going to Orlando and they say "bad trade!" Yet that's not even what Orlando was looking for to begin with. Unless Orlando was going to get a superstar back for Dwight, their goal was to rebuild.

Now do you people saying it was a bad trade know what rebuilding is? I have to break this down barney style because once again, your posts show your very little intellegence to NBA trades. So I have to reply accordingly.

So if you know what "rebuilding" is, then ask yourself, why would Orlando want to take on a max contract Brook Lopez for Dwight? Is Brook Lopez someone you want to build a franchise around? Hmmmm, let's think real hard on this. Prob not right....Sure Marshon Brooks would be a nice addition, but people don't realize he's already 23 years old. Sure he can get better but he's not going to be a superstar by no means, he'll be lucky to be an all star. When you come into the leage at 23 yrs old you kinda are what you are if you're a peremeter guy. You start to see somones ceiling a little clearer. It's not the same as getting some 19 yr old with potential through the roof.

Orlando got alot of what they wanted with this trade. Got rid of the J Rich contract, as well as Duhons, picked up some nice young pieces, at this point Harkless has the highest potential (19 yrs old). Most importantly they have cap space, so now in the next couple years esp 2014 they'll have alot of money to spend on free agents. If the players they have now can prove to be great role players and border line all stars, then come 2014, alot of free agents will want to go to Orlando to be there guy, esp with a great supporting cast. Orlando will have the money to do so. If Orlando is as bad as they prob will be next year, they have a very high chance at getting a top 5 pic.

So in 2 years you're looking at a team consisting of 2 first round draft pics this year, some great role players, a top 5 pic next year, as well as money to potentially sign 2 max contracts in 2014. This isn't even taking into account the pics they have in future years they got from this trade, it's also not accounting for the 17.8 mil trade exception they got in this trade as well.

So to all you people who say it was a bad trade for the Magic, use some common sense and some basketball trade knowledge and get a clue. This is what rebuilding looks like. Getting players like Lopez, Gasol....ect is only going to make you a middle of the road team. Which is NBA purgatory.

Stop be so short sided and look at the big picture. Realize Orlando did this trade with only 2-3 teams to choose from.

You're focusing on the Nets proposal when everyone knows that wasn't the best deal for the Magic. If Orlando wanted a role player in the deal the should have just asked for Lowry, he's younger than AA and on a much friendlier contract.

Harkless was the 15th pick, the Rockets were willing to trade essentially two of their rookies from Lamb(12th), Royce White(16th) or Terrence Jones(18th) along with the Toronto pick and Kevin Martins expiring.

When you're trading the best center in the game I'd assume you want several young prospects along with high draft picks. Im not sure why you keep mentioning two years down the road, Houston's proposed deal would have allowed the Magic to bottom out as early as this upcoming season.

TruMagicFan
08-13-2012, 04:08 PM
If u think the Orlando Magics trade was horrible u obvously arent as smart as u think u are, for starters if orlando would have gotten bynum, iggy, or gasol they would be broke without the ability to to acquire free agents and would have had to be a sub par team that could only make the playoffs and never advance to the finals if u think thats ok for your team then thats fine with me, and the houston deal everyone is talking about wasnt as good as you think they actually werent giving up all their young talent, and draft picks evrything reported is facts, Orlando decided instead of being a sub par team they would create flexability in cap space, 5 picks, young talent, and 17.8 mill in trade exceptions and thats a bad deal. Let compare with the carmelo trade they trade melo for a bunch quailty role players in chandler and gallinari they will be good for a long time but never a contender,so orlando went the oppositeway and in my opinion the better one because we have a bad year and get a top 10 pick then we go out and sign all star free agents and deveop the young talent we already have. Orlando has the potential to be the best team in the league thanks to the Dwight trade it was just a perfect trade, some people may not see it now but they will in a few yrs.

mightybosstone
08-13-2012, 04:13 PM
This thread is fail because the OP asks us to rank the Dwight trade. I voted 2 because I feel like it was an atrocious deal that their front office clearly screwed up, but at least they got SOMETHING for him, so it's hard to give them a 1. However, after looking, the poll question completely flips the rankings around. If you're going to make a poll, be competent and at least make it so that the thread and the poll are consistent. That's why there are so many 1s and 10s in the same poll.

:facepalm:

mightybosstone
08-13-2012, 04:15 PM
If u think the Orlando Magics trade was horrible u obvously arent as smart as u think u are, for starters if orlando would have gotten bynum, iggy, or gasol they would be broke without the ability to to acquire free agents and would have had to be a sub par team that could only make the playoffs and never advance to the finals if u think thats ok for your team then thats fine with me, and the houston deal everyone is talking about wasnt as good as you think they actually werent giving up all their young talent, and draft picks evrything reported is facts, Orlando decided instead of being a sub par team they would create flexability in cap space, 5 picks, young talent, and 17.8 mill in trade exceptions and thats a bad deal.

If you use "u" instead of typing "you" and have no concept of how punctuation should work, then "u obviously aren't as smart as u think u are."

topdog
08-13-2012, 04:18 PM
10 is HORRIBLE, 1 is bad

Depends upon how you like it :rimshot:

Confusing for most though because 10 usually is a good thing.

DLCK
08-13-2012, 04:18 PM
Its hard for the Laker haters and for the avg fan to understand that this or the rockets offer was the best they could hope for.

They didnt want high priced talent in return Lopez/Bynum.They wanted to field a team of young players with minimal contracts. So they can tank for the next 2/3 years. And Get top 5 picks of their own to go along with 19-30 picks they got in this trade. They are going in full rebuild mode. Of course some fans would want atleast comparable talent in return.But how beneficial would that be to their future?Plus when your trading away a top3 player in this league your not ever gonna be seen as a winner in that trade.

Cal827
08-13-2012, 04:19 PM
10. They got Falcon-Fisted by Greg Oden.

As one guy mentioned, Houston was offering 3 prospects (two of their three, plus Toronto's likely lotto pick) and an expiring contract, that could have been moved at the deadline to acquire more picks or prospects (Kevin Martin). They didn't even need Howard to promis to resign... yet the still balked on that deal. 3 prospects + They would suck terribly this year too so that would basically be 2 medium prospects (Houstons), a likely good propect (Let's assume that Toronto's pick is 9 or 10), and a likely great prospect (Their Pick).

:facepalm:

topdog
08-13-2012, 04:27 PM
This poll is useless because it is confusing. I doubt anyone who gave it a 1 thinks that it's a great deal (rather they were confused). I meant to give a 7, but my hand betrayed me to the 3.

The NJ deal is debatable. I wouldn't want the big contracts that I'd have to take on if I'm Orlando and it puts you in the realm of mediocrity.

The Houston deal is the best because you get some young guys, you get cap relief and you might even get picks which are most likely to be the highest of any team involved (aside from Orlando).

The LA deal is not an issue because Orlando didn't get one of the top players in the trade. They are looking to full-on re-build. The issue is that they didn't ditch their worst contracts. They got protected picks from playoff teams they just made better (how do you allow them to be protected?). They took on a bad contract in Harrington and let Afflalo's positional label fool them into acquiring an overpaid player. I know that they could have done worse, so I didn't give them a 9 or 10 and I have a feeling they like the young guys they got (Vucervic, Harkless and Afflalo) so I'll give them another couple points benefit there and see how they do.

TruMagicFan
08-13-2012, 04:27 PM
If you use "u" instead of typing "you" and have no concept of how punctuation should work, then "u obviously aren't as smart as u think u are."

U must be one of the ones who think it was a bad trade.LOL I know my basketball u might want to learn a little more before u come at me.

macc
08-13-2012, 04:29 PM
You're focusing on the Nets proposal when everyone knows that wasn't the best deal for the Magic. If Orlando wanted a role player in the deal the should have just asked for Lowry, he's younger than AA and on a much friendlier contract.

Harkless was the 15th pick, the Rockets were willing to trade essentially two of their rookies from Lamb(12th), Royce White(16th) or Terrence Jones(18th) along with the Toronto pick and Kevin Martins expiring.

When you're trading the best center in the game I'd assume you want several young prospects along with high draft picks. Im not sure why you keep mentioning two years down the road, Houston's proposed deal would have allowed the Magic to bottom out as early as this upcoming season.



Once again, let's use some common sense here. If Houston trades us 2 of their 3 first rounders and K mart, that's great and all, but they still aren't taking on any big contracts from us. So that means we STILL have Duhon for another 3 years and we STILL have J Rich for another 3 years as well. So how much does that really help us out if we have no financial flexibility?

Sure K marts expiring would of helped a little but not enough. The contracts Orlando got in the deal they made were non guarenteed, except for AA, but he's a good player to have on your team anyways so I'm fine with that.

Besides 1st round pics in trades are extrememly overrated anyways, unless they are top 10 then to me they aren't worth much. Sometimes in a deep draft you can get lucky but typically you're not going to find any game changers after the first top 10 pics. You can find some "quality" players after the top 10 but rarely any all stars. Not saying never, but rarely. So basically when somone offers 3 1st round pics all in the 15-30 range, that's like saying you're getting 3 role players "eventually" for your trade.

As a franchise I would much rather have cap flexibility then mid to lower first round pics, because in that case you have money to sign not only good role/quality players, but quality players that are a need at particular positions.

Even in the pics Orlando received in the trade, I don't put much value in because they are most likely going to end up being a role player down the line, unless they are traded before then.

So by staying put and keeping Duhon/J Rich and co then that would push back the rebuilding phase at least 3 more years. Now the way we did it we can do it a year or two faster. Orlando will be appx 15 mil under the cap in the 2013 free agency and appx 25-30 mil under the cap in 2014 since Al Harrington is a non gaurenteed contract.

You mix that with the fact Orlando will have 3 first round pics on their rookie contract (one first round likely being a top 5 pic for sucking next year) along with clost to 30 mil to spend in free agency in 2014. Not only that Orlando will be able to use Turks 12mil contract as a trade in the 2013 season. Yet more financial flexibility...

That is how a rebuild works. Bottom line is you can't judge that trade immidiately. It's a trade you have to wait a couple years then look back on. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't know basketball. Period.

Besides I think it's annoying when people compare Orlandos trade with "rumored" trades. There's something called reality, and there's speculation. There's a difference. If the Houston trade was soooo much better then the one they did then I'm sure they would of taken it. Don't ya think....

TruMagicFan
08-13-2012, 04:33 PM
It's funny how unintelligent some posters are in here when it comes to NBA trades.

People don't see an all star going to Orlando and they say "bad trade!" Yet that's not even what Orlando was looking for to begin with. Unless Orlando was going to get a superstar back for Dwight, their goal was to rebuild.

Now do you people saying it was a bad trade know what rebuilding is? I have to break this down barney style because once again, your posts show your very little intellegence to NBA trades. So I have to reply accordingly.

So if you know what "rebuilding" is, then ask yourself, why would Orlando want to take on a max contract Brook Lopez for Dwight? Is Brook Lopez someone you want to build a franchise around? Hmmmm, let's think real hard on this. Prob not right....Sure Marshon Brooks would be a nice addition, but people don't realize he's already 23 years old. Sure he can get better but he's not going to be a superstar by no means, he'll be lucky to be an all star. When you come into the leage at 23 yrs old you kinda are what you are if you're a peremeter guy. You start to see somones ceiling a little clearer. It's not the same as getting some 19 yr old with potential through the roof.

Orlando got alot of what they wanted with this trade. Got rid of the J Rich contract, as well as Duhons, picked up some nice young pieces, at this point Harkless has the highest potential (19 yrs old). Most importantly they have cap space, so now in the next couple years esp 2014 they'll have alot of money to spend on free agents. If the players they have now can prove to be great role players and border line all stars, then come 2014, alot of free agents will want to go to Orlando to be there guy, esp with a great supporting cast. Orlando will have the money to do so. If Orlando is as bad as they prob will be next year, they have a very high chance at getting a top 5 pic.

So in 2 years you're looking at a team consisting of 2 first round draft pics this year, some great role players, a top 5 pic next year, as well as money to potentially sign 2 max contracts in 2014. This isn't even taking into account the pics they have in future years they got from this trade, it's also not accounting for the 17.8 mil trade exception they got in this trade as well.

So to all you people who say it was a bad trade for the Magic, use some common sense and some basketball trade knowledge and get a clue. This is what rebuilding looks like. Getting players like Lopez, Gasol....ect is only going to make you a middle of the road team. Which is NBA purgatory.

Stop be so short sided and look at the big picture. Realize Orlando did this trade with only 2-3 teams to choose from.

Couldnt have said it better, you know your stuff.

BigCityofDreams
08-13-2012, 04:37 PM
You're focusing on the Nets proposal when everyone knows that wasn't the best deal for the Magic. If Orlando wanted a role player in the deal the should have just asked for Lowry, he's younger than AA and on a much friendlier contract.

Harkless was the 15th pick, the Rockets were willing to trade essentially two of their rookies from Lamb(12th), Royce White(16th) or Terrence Jones(18th) along with the Toronto pick and Kevin Martins expiring.

When you're trading the best center in the game I'd assume you want several young prospects along with high draft picks. Im not sure why you keep mentioning two years down the road, Houston's proposed deal would have allowed the Magic to bottom out as early as this upcoming season.

How many bad contracts were they willing to take back?

topdog
08-13-2012, 04:41 PM
I was just playing around with trade machine (why is it that they update player movement so fast and yet take all summer to adjust the cap space?). Anyway, if Orlando was going to do this deal they should have:

1. Sent TurkeyGlue to Philly and made up the difference with Wright's expiring deal

2. Left Afflalo and Harrington in Denver

3. Taken either Wilson Chandler (friendly 4yr./$22M contract), Brewer (expiring) and Mozgov (expiring) or taken Afflalo, Brewer and Jordan Hamilton

Duhon and J-Rich are such small-fry contracts and Harrington is worse than either. That's what bugs me about the deal - not shedding Turkoglu and taking on Harrington.

DLCK
08-13-2012, 04:45 PM
I was just playing around with trade machine (why is it that they update player movement so fast and yet take all summer to adjust the cap space?). Anyway, if Orlando was going to do this deal they should have:

1. Sent TurkeyGlue to Philly and made up the difference with Wright's expiring deal

2. Left Afflalo and Harrington in Denver

3. Taken either Wilson Chandler (friendly 4yr./$22M contract), Brewer (expiring) and Mozgov (expiring) or taken Afflalo, Brewer and Jordan Hamilton

Duhon and J-Rich are such small-fry contracts and Harrington is worse than either. That's what bugs me about the deal - not shedding Turkoglu and taking on Harrington.


i believe if they did that then they would have not received the trade exception

macc
08-13-2012, 04:46 PM
As of the 2013-14 season Orlando salaries look like this.

Arron Afflalo - 7.7mil
Glen Davis - 6.4 mil
Moe Harkless - 1.8mil
Al Harrington - 3.5 mil (partial guarenteed salary)
Jameer Nelson - 8.6mil
Andrew Nicholson - 1.4mil
Q Rich - 2.8 mil (player option)
Turk - 6 mil (parial guarenteed salary)

Kyle O'Quinn - 830k (team option)
Nikola Vucevic - 1.8mil (team option)


In the 2014 offseaon Orlando only has 35.4 mil committed into salaries. If they keep their team options then they're at about 40 mil. So They'll be about 20-30 mil below cap depending on where it's set at and if they trade Hedos expiring that year.

So as "bad" as a trade people say this was for Orlando, in only 2 years the Magic will be major players in the free agency market. There are alot of great free agents that year.

nyKnicks126
08-13-2012, 04:46 PM
I thought on most surveys that 10 is the best.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............................. but okay..

Twins Fanatic
08-13-2012, 04:51 PM
****** trade, besides Afflalo, highly doubt any of those picks they received will be lottery picks. They were better off sending him to Houston.

SouthSideRookie
08-13-2012, 04:52 PM
How many bad contracts were they willing to take back?


The Rockets had tried to position themselves for this opportunity, offering the Toronto pick they got for Kyle Lowry along with a pick from Dallas and were open to adding a pick of their own. They would have sent two players from among Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris, Donatas Motiejunas, Jeremy Lamb, Royce White and Terrence Jones. And they would have taken back two large Orlando contracts – Hedo Turkoglu and either Chris Duhon or Jason Richardson – without sending back corresponding burdensome contracts to offer the Magic roughly $12 million more in cap room than they have now.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/08/lakers-acquire-howard-what-next-for-rockets/

macc
08-13-2012, 05:00 PM
http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/08/lakers-acquire-howard-what-next-for-rockets/



There was a contradicting report for Woj and a couple other sources that they were not willing to take on any bad contracts.

Which is why you don't compare actual trades to "rumored" trades. There is a difference. If Houston really did offer two of their first round pics, an expiring and takin on 2 bad contracts then you think Orlando would of done it. That trade just sounds to good to be true and reports from highly reputable sources stated that wasn't the full trade. It was only speculated.

BigCityofDreams
08-13-2012, 05:00 PM
So that goes against what other outlets have reported which is they weren't willing to take back any bad contracts

SouthSideRookie
08-13-2012, 05:00 PM
Once again, let's use some common sense here. If Houston trades us 2 of their 3 first rounders and K mart, that's great and all, but they still aren't taking on any big contracts from us. So that means we STILL have Duhon for another 3 years and we STILL have J Rich for another 3 years as well. So how much does that really help us out if we have no financial flexibility?

Sure K marts expiring would of helped a little but not enough. The contracts Orlando got in the deal they made were non guarenteed, except for AA, but he's a good player to have on your team anyways so I'm fine with that.

Besides 1st round pics in trades are extrememly overrated anyways, unless they are top 10 then to me they aren't worth much. Sometimes in a deep draft you can get lucky but typically you're not going to find any game changers after the first top 10 pics. You can find some "quality" players after the top 10 but rarely any all stars. Not saying never, but rarely. So basically when somone offers 3 1st round pics all in the 15-30 range, that's like saying you're getting 3 role players "eventually" for your trade.

As a franchise I would much rather have cap flexibility then mid to lower first round pics, because in that case you have money to sign not only good role/quality players, but quality players that are a need at particular positions.

Even in the pics Orlando received in the trade, I don't put much value in because they are most likely going to end up being a role player down the line, unless they are traded before then.

So by staying put and keeping Duhon/J Rich and co then that would push back the rebuilding phase at least 3 more years. Now the way we did it we can do it a year or two faster. Orlando will be appx 15 mil under the cap in the 2013 free agency and appx 25-30 mil under the cap in 2014 since Al Harrington is a non gaurenteed contract.

You mix that with the fact Orlando will have 3 first round pics on their rookie contract (one first round likely being a top 5 pic for sucking next year) along with clost to 30 mil to spend in free agency in 2014. Not only that Orlando will be able to use Turks 12mil contract as a trade in the 2013 season. Yet more financial flexibility...

That is how a rebuild works. Bottom line is you can't judge that trade immidiately. It's a trade you have to wait a couple years then look back on. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't know basketball. Period.

Besides I think it's annoying when people compare Orlandos trade with "rumored" trades. There's something called reality, and there's speculation. There's a difference. If the Houston trade was soooo much better then the one they did then I'm sure they would of taken it. Don't ya think....

We'll just agree to disagree but I can respect your point of view.

On the Houston offer. Daryl Morey has been after a superstar player for quite some time, I really doubt that he was being overly conservative with his offer. Im willing to bet he was willing to take a calculated risk here.

macc
08-13-2012, 05:01 PM
I was just playing around with trade machine (why is it that they update player movement so fast and yet take all summer to adjust the cap space?). Anyway, if Orlando was going to do this deal they should have:

1. Sent TurkeyGlue to Philly and made up the difference with Wright's expiring deal

2. Left Afflalo and Harrington in Denver

3. Taken either Wilson Chandler (friendly 4yr./$22M contract), Brewer (expiring) and Mozgov (expiring) or taken Afflalo, Brewer and Jordan Hamilton

Duhon and J-Rich are such small-fry contracts and Harrington is worse than either. That's what bugs me about the deal - not shedding Turkoglu and taking on Harrington.



I agree but they did get rid of two bad contracts, plus Turk is an expiring after next year so he won't be on the books for the 2014 free agency. Also Harrington is only a partially guarenteed contract. So it's not bad at all.

SouthSideRookie
08-13-2012, 05:05 PM
There was a contradicting report for Woj and a couple other sources that they were not willing to take on any bad contracts.

Which is why you don't compare actual trades to "rumored" trades. There is a difference. If Houston really did offer two of their first round pics, an expiring and takin on 2 bad contracts then you think Orlando would of done it. That trade just sounds to good to be true and reports from highly reputable sources stated that wasn't the full trade. It was only speculated.

I saw the Woj tweet. Daryl Morey was asked about a comment RH made. RH said that the offer sheets made it difficult to deal with Houston. Daryl Morey was asked about it on a radio interview and he refuted that. Proposals were being exchanged with the offer sheets taken into account. This was also being reported weeks back during the process.

BigCityofDreams
08-13-2012, 05:06 PM
There was a contradicting report for Woj and a couple other sources that they were not willing to take on any bad contracts.

Which is why you don't compare actual trades to "rumored" trades. There is a difference. If Houston really did offer two of their first round pics, an expiring and takin on 2 bad contracts then you think Orlando would of done it. That trade just sounds to good to be true and reports from highly reputable sources stated that wasn't the full trade. It was only speculated.

Didn't Rob Hennigan say something along the lines of what is reported isn't actually what's there

macc
08-13-2012, 05:07 PM
We'll just agree to disagree but I can respect your point of view.

On the Houston offer. Daryl Morey has been after a superstar player for quite some time, I really doubt that he was being overly conservative with his offer. Im willing to bet he was willing to take a calculated risk here.



Well ofcourse he was and it would of been a good risk to try, in the actual trade he would be giving up a couple of his first rounders as well as an expiring to get Dwight. Best case scenario, Dwight wants to stay and now they have the best C in the leauge. Worst case scenario, they still have Dwight Howard, makes their team relevant again and if Dwight decides to leave then they'll be extrememly under the cap as well with Dwights contract coming off the books. So in the end they could start with their rebuild as well and being well under the cap they could have a good start with it. Which is exactly why Houston didn't want to take on Orlandos bad contracts, because if they did and Howard left, well then they would be in Orlandos place but much much worse with all these contracts on their books with the potential of not having Dwight Howard after next year.

Understanding now....

macc
08-13-2012, 05:08 PM
Didn't Rob Hennigan say something along the lines of what is reported isn't actually what's there



I'm not sure what you mean by this but send me a link to what he said and I can better respond..

macc
08-13-2012, 05:12 PM
I saw the Woj tweet. Daryl Morey was asked about a comment RH made. RH said that the offer sheets made it difficult to deal with Houston. Daryl Morey was asked about it on a radio interview and he refuted that. Proposals were being exchanged with the offer sheets taken into account. This was also being reported weeks back during the process.



Well that's the thing with reports, sources...ect, you never know what's true and whats not. These GM's aren't going to give us the entire story. The main point I'm trying to make is if the Houston deal was soooo much better then why wouldn't Orlando do it?

If the "rumored" Houston deal was true, the ONLY reason I could think of Orlando taking the deal they did over the Houston one was because they were so high on Moe Harkless. I know they scouted him quite a bit and had him work out in Orlando. Alot of Mocks had Orlando taking Harkless. Other than that if the Houston deal was true, I don't see why Orlando would pass up on that. It just doesn't make sense. Which leads me to believe it just wasn't that good. Or as good as what the media made it sound like.

D12 fan
08-13-2012, 05:14 PM
The trade is bad when you basically get Affalo as the main piece for Dwight and you take on Harrington bad contract.But it also good for the future because the Magic will suck and most likely Stern will give them the #1 pick since the draft is rigged.

topdog
08-13-2012, 05:14 PM
i believe if they did that then they would have not received the trade exception

Which is a decent point, but I would argue that those trade exceptions rarely amount to anything especially for re-building teams.


I agree but they did get rid of two bad contracts, plus Turk is an expiring after next year so he won't be on the books for the 2014 free agency. Also Harrington is only a partially guarenteed contract. So it's not bad at all.

Duhon's contract was a non-guaranteed $3.5M for 2013-14. I never understood why people were so concerned with it (realizing of course that he essentially was a useless player). I did not realize Turk's contract was non-guaranteed next off-season as well. I just feel that there was so much more they left on the table with the 3 other teams getting great deals.

BigCityofDreams
08-13-2012, 05:19 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by this but send me a link to what he said and I can better respond..

The Magic also passed up a potential deal with the Houston Rockets. Reports last month indicated that Houston officials were willing to trade away their most promising young players and also accept several of the Magic’s long-term contracts.

Hennigan indicated that Houston’s offer wasn’t nearly as good as advertised.

"At the end of the day, you look at what’s available in theory and what’s available in reality,” he said. “And sometimes those two things aren’t always the same. And we felt that with all the options we did explore, this was the best one for us.”

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-10/sports/os-dwight-howard-trade-20120810_1_magic-fans-rob-hennigan-orlando-magic

you can also hear it at 3:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTJLAQx7A8Y

C-Wick925
08-13-2012, 05:19 PM
Everything was perfect except the picks are protected therefore the % of them turning into anything worth a **** is so low that they got fisted

mightybosstone
08-13-2012, 06:38 PM
U must be one of the ones who think it was a bad trade.LOL I know my basketball u might want to learn a little more before u come at me.

It's hard to take you seriously when you use piss poor grammar and have eight whole posts. Kid, you may think you know basketball, but I've forgotten more about the sport than you ever knew.

TruMagicFan
08-13-2012, 07:33 PM
It's hard to take you seriously when you use piss poor grammar and have eight whole posts. Kid, you may think you know basketball, but I've forgotten more about the sport than you ever knew.
U worried about the wrong thing and the only reason I started an account was make u so called sports fans knew what u were talking about, and as for the "u" I just keep doing it to piss u off. Now lets test how much u know old man, do u think the Magic trade was a good trade and if not y?