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View Full Version : Tank or stay competitive?



Kevj77
08-11-2012, 06:37 AM
Serious question. What would you want your team to do given they are forced to trade a star player.

The Nuggets stayed competitive and even though I don't think they are a championship team I applaud their decision, but it can backfire and a team can be stuck in mediocrity if they decide on this path. Now they are one of the top 3-4 seeds in the west.

Memphis decided to trade Pau Gasol and tank. They traded Pau for a young player (Marc Gasol), an expiring contract (Kwame) and a couple late round picks. By tanking they ended up with the 5th pick and the 2nd overall pick the following years. They used their cap space to trade for Zbo. It could have worked out great if they had drafted correctly. They drafted Kevin Love, but traded him for Mayo and drafted Thabeet over James Harden.

OKC won 31 games with Ray Allen and got lucky to move up in the lottery to get Durant over four other teams. They traded Ray Allen and tanked only winning 20 and 23 games the next two seasons. They were able to draft Westbrook 4th overall and Harden 3rd overall. It worked out because they drafted the right guys and got lucky other teams passed on Durant, Westbrook and Harden.

However it could have backfired if Memphis drafted Harden instead of Thabeet. Westbrook went between Mayo and Love. Memphis could have had Love or Westbrook and Harden with cap space.

Most people including me thought that Stern was right to veto the Lakers trade for CP3, but basiclty all they traded CP3 for was a #10 pick, an expiring contract and a young player Eric Gordon. They tanked and got the #1 pick.

I guess the point is you still have to draft correctly, luck out in the lottery, and hope other teams screw up.

What would you do? It is too soon to know what Orlando will get from trading Howard.

TLDR: Even if you tank you still have to make good decisions and have a little luck.

Vinny642
08-11-2012, 06:39 AM
Well my Hornets kind of did last season trading Chris Paul to the Clippers and we rebuilt better than ever

abe_froman
08-11-2012, 06:41 AM
tank.no reason to be in nba hell

Kevj77
08-11-2012, 06:46 AM
tank.no reason to be in nba hellI agree tanking is the right option. Lottery picks are the best way to rebuild even though I think it worked out for the Nuggets.

Steelers23_06
08-11-2012, 06:50 AM
tank. i think its better to have a chance (albeit slim) of drafting the next big thing...very rarely do role players become stars. and this is a star driven league always has been always will be.

PhillyFaninLA
08-11-2012, 06:57 AM
Only weak minded loser tank, players should be booted from the league, coaches fired, or owners forced to sell for it.

No REAL fan EVER roots for loses. Also if you are pretty good and competitive you never know what will happen in the playoffs.

Simple question to me. Look at the Sixers they where competitive (but had no title hopes) and getting slightly better the past 3 years and now they made a big change that can take (or position them next off season) to take a huge step.

PHX2daDEATH
08-11-2012, 06:59 AM
Tank.. something the Suns should of done this year to get a shot at Ant Davis or Kidd-Gilchrist ..the NBA officially has 3 contenders.. OKC, Lakers and Miami.. if you are a fan of any other team.. can you really say your team is a contender with a straight face? Thats including you Bulls fans, ALRIGHT..

Vinny642
08-11-2012, 07:02 AM
We didnt even tank and we still got Ant Davis :D

Kevj77
08-11-2012, 07:07 AM
We didnt even tank and we still got Ant Davis :DYour GM wanted to stay competitive, Stern disagreed and thought it was better to tank. He was right.

Tanking is approved by the league office now.

Vinny642
08-11-2012, 07:12 AM
Your GM wanted to stay competitive, Stern disagreed and thought it was better to tank. He was right.

Tanking is approved by the league office now.

But we didnt tank, we just had a bad rotation, im glad Stern stepped in, as owner of the Hornets he had every right to

JeffG20
08-11-2012, 07:31 AM
But we didnt tank, we just had a bad rotation, im glad Stern stepped in, as owner of the Hornets he had every right to

yea, i see we got labeled as tankers every now and then. if we did tank we did a poor job of it winning games at the end of the season

Dade County
08-11-2012, 11:35 AM
If my super star wanted out...

I would have traded him with 2yrs left on his contract, so teams could give me more assets in return; and then I would set up my contracts so I all of them expire around the same time, so by me doing this, maybe I can get a top 3 pick and have lots of money to take over free agency.

So yeah, trade super star, suck for 2yrs while playing young talent... Try to get a top 3 pick and go crazy in free agency in year 3 after trading my super star.

Giraffes Rule
08-11-2012, 11:52 AM
Only weak minded loser tank, players should be booted from the league, coaches fired, or owners forced to sell for it.

No REAL fan EVER roots for loses. Also if you are pretty good and competitive you never know what will happen in the playoffs.

Simple question to me. Look at the Sixers they where competitive (but had no title hopes) and getting slightly better the past 3 years and now they made a big change that can take (or position them next off season) to take a huge step.

You know the Sixers went 27-55 just two seasons ago, right? Not tanking, but certainly not competitive.

bearadonisdna
08-11-2012, 11:57 AM
You dont make money tanking wise guys. Nba is a business.

blob50192
08-11-2012, 12:11 PM
Tan, there not even mediorce, they have hedo, who is pretty good, affalo whos pretty good,harrington whos mediocre, big baby whos mediocre, and nelson, who is mediorce, everything else on that team sucks

PhillyFaninLA
08-11-2012, 12:18 PM
You know the Sixers went 27-55 just two seasons ago, right? Not tanking, but certainly not competitive.

Hence my comment about them getting better but not being title contenders.

Learn to comprehend what you read.

IgglesFanInCO
08-11-2012, 12:48 PM
Either way can work, but you have to do it right, If you somehow get a miracle hit with every selection over a few years like OKC, tanking is the best option

The nuggets have one of the youngest and cheapest teams in the league, no really bad contracts, and enough tradeable assets to pull off any move they want, in a league where theres only a handful of real competitors each year they are in a pretty good position while staying competitive, they are a potential 3-4 seed who will only improve over the next 5-6 years

Hawkeye15
08-11-2012, 12:59 PM
Tanking has not always worked. Look at Charlotte last year. They tanked and got the #2. Meanwhile, a Monty Williams led New Orleans played their ***** off, squeezing out a respectable close to the season, and won the lottery.

Any real fan doesn't WANT to see his team tank, but if you are eliminated from the playoffs by Feb, you start following which players are in the draft, and you can't help later in the season to start pulling for some L's to have a better chance at a guy you like.

RLundi
08-11-2012, 01:01 PM
NBA Purgatory is the single worst position to be in.

PhillyFaninLA
08-11-2012, 01:04 PM
NBA Purgatory is the single worst position to be in.

Real pugatory would probably be worse

dalton749
08-11-2012, 01:05 PM
tank. i like the direction the raptors have gone in since losing bosh

Heatcheck
08-11-2012, 01:07 PM
Well my Hornets kind of did last season trading Chris Paul to the Clippers and we rebuilt better than ever

slow down there, sport. might want to let them play a game first.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-11-2012, 01:08 PM
If we aren't getting the package the Nuggets got for Carmelo, tank.

RLundi
08-11-2012, 01:13 PM
Real pugatory would probably be worse

I've heard good things.

LanceUpperCut
08-11-2012, 01:14 PM
I don't really believe any teams tank as in trying to lose games. You play to the best of your ability as a player cause if you don't you won't last long in this league and you won't get paid which is number 1 in all players minds. If your team is going nowhere that season you make moves for the future whether you get worse that season. I think it's pretty basic.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
08-11-2012, 01:31 PM
A better word instead of tank is rebuild ... tanking sounds negative but rebuilding sounds more promising lol IMO

Tanking/rebuilding is deff my choice ..... laker heat thunder will be winning the next 3 years at least so why bother being competitive now only to never beat the elite teams and have to rebuild in 3 or 4 years anyway? Tank now hope ya get lucky and can be good for when Miami and Lakers run die down some

Giraffes Rule
08-11-2012, 02:38 PM
Hence my comment about them getting better but not being title contenders.

Learn to comprehend what you read.

That's not what you said. You said they were competitive. A sub .400 winning percentage is not competitive at all. That's a bad team.

THE MTL
08-11-2012, 02:42 PM
Serious question. What would you want your team to do given they are forced to trade a star player.

The Nuggets stayed competitive and even though I don't think they are a championship team I applaud their decision, but it can backfire and a team can be stuck in mediocrity if they decide on this path. Now they are one of the top 3-4 seeds in the west.

Memphis decided to trade Pau Gasol and tank. They traded Pau for a young player (Marc Gasol), an expiring contract (Kwame) and a couple late round picks. By tanking they ended up with the 5th pick and the 2nd overall pick the following years. They used their cap space to trade for Zbo. It could have worked out great if they had drafted correctly. They drafted Kevin Love, but traded him for Mayo and drafted Thabeet over James Harden.

OKC won 31 games with Ray Allen and got lucky to move up in the lottery to get Durant over four other teams. They traded Ray Allen and tanked only winning 20 and 23 games the next two seasons. They were able to draft Westbrook 4th overall and Harden 3rd overall. It worked out because they drafted the right guys and got lucky other teams passed on Durant, Westbrook and Harden.

However it could have backfired if Memphis drafted Harden instead of Thabeet. Westbrook went between Mayo and Love. Memphis could have had Love or Westbrook and Harden with cap space.

Most people including me thought that Stern was right to veto the Lakers trade for CP3, but basiclty all they traded CP3 for was a #10 pick, an expiring contract and a young player Eric Gordon. They tanked and got the #1 pick.

I guess the point is you still have to draft correctly, luck out in the lottery, and hope other teams screw up.

What would you do? It is too soon to know what Orlando will get from trading Howard.

TLDR: Even if you tank you still have to make good decisions and have a little luck.


OKC is the only team over the last decade that were somewhat decent prior to tanking and starting over.

Kings, Pistons, Grizzlies are examples of why u dont tank.
Spurs, Celtics, Lakers are examples of why u NEVER choose to tank.

--23--
08-11-2012, 04:14 PM
Compete, I'd never want my team tank.

Hawkeye15
08-11-2012, 05:04 PM
Let me add this as well. If you have a team full of young players, and tank, I fear it develops bad habits throughout the youth. It shows them that winning isn't always the most important thing, something that might very well hinder their development. I love to see a coach push his guys no matter the consequences from the front office. A coach shouldn't care about who is in the draft, or what draft position they are getting. A GM may, but a coach's job is to win as many games as possible, while teaching and developing his players, especially the young ones. Why would you want a culture where losing is acceptable?

sunsfan88
08-11-2012, 05:11 PM
We didnt even tank and we still got Ant Davis :D

Well duh the NBA commissioner was the owner of the Hornets and was selling the team so to make it more appealing to buyers of course he's gonna give NOH the #1 overall pick.

You can't tell me that you were actually surprised to hear the Hornets got the #1 pick....

JeffG20
08-11-2012, 05:26 PM
Well duh the NBA commissioner was the owner of the Hornets and was selling the team so to make it more appealing to buyers of course he's gonna give NOH the #1 overall pick.

You can't tell me that you were actually surprised to hear the Hornets got the #1 pick....


yes, the NBA Commish will break all kind of laws and actually risk jail time by fixing the Draft to rig the draft for us?

i know people easily buy into that crap because its convieniant but come on

Tony_Starks
08-11-2012, 05:29 PM
I say tank but I don't mean it in the typical sense of trying to lose. You can put a team full of the young guys on the floor that play hard every night and will probably still end up with a bad record because of inexperience. Like what OKC did the first couple years for example.

ORL had the perfect opportunity for a total rebuild but now with Afflalo, Harrington, Turk, Baby, and Nelson they'll be officially in Piston territory. Bad enough to miss the playoffs but not horrible enough to get a high pick.....

JasonJohnHorn
08-11-2012, 05:40 PM
This is why the NBA introduced the draft lottery. Tanking might improve your odds, but it doesn't garauntee anything. I want to see every team put out an honest effort every night.

PhillyFaninLA
08-11-2012, 05:41 PM
That's not what you said. You said they were competitive. A sub .400 winning percentage is not competitive at all. That's a bad team.

Again I say learn to comprehend what you read you clearly don't know how or you just like to distort what people say or out right ignore it. Either way welcome to my ignore list, ignorant people aren't worth reading.

AirJordanXVIII
08-11-2012, 05:48 PM
Tank. But obviously it looks bad on the organization so teams rarely explicitly do it.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-11-2012, 05:49 PM
No team goes into a season with the mindset of tanking. Never.

Very few times has it happened at the very end of the year in basketball, but that's it. Don't know why people continue to think its the only option for certain teams or that due to circumstances a team is going to tank all year. If you try to lose a game(s), you won't last long in professional sports, as an athlete, coach, etc.

Tony_Starks
08-11-2012, 06:07 PM
No team goes into a season with the mindset of tanking. Never.

Very few times has it happened at the very end of the year in basketball, but that's it. Don't know why people continue to think its the only option for certain teams or that due to circumstances a team is going to tank all year. If you try to lose a game(s), you won't last long in professional sports, as an athlete, coach, etc.


See Michael Jordans Charlotte Bobcats......

Pierzynski4Prez
08-11-2012, 06:16 PM
See Michael Jordans Charlotte Bobcats......

Do they go into the season with the goal of obtaining the best possible pick in next years draft? Or do they just suck?

Tony_Starks
08-11-2012, 06:19 PM
Do they go into the season with the goal of obtaining the best possible pick in next years draft? Or do they just suck?

Well the year after they made the playoffs they gave away all their best players for basically nothing so I call that playing for a draft pick.

Vinny642
08-12-2012, 06:07 PM
slow down there, sport. might want to let them play a game first.

IM not saying we just won a title, -__- im saying we turned around our franchise and our arrow is pointing straight UP

Vinny642
08-12-2012, 06:09 PM
Well duh the NBA commissioner was the owner of the Hornets and was selling the team so to make it more appealing to buyers of course he's gonna give NOH the #1 overall pick.

You can't tell me that you were actually surprised to hear the Hornets got the #1 pick....

Lmao and if the Cavs won the lottery there would be some BS story about them, and if the Bobcats won it another theory, facts are facts.... Anthony Unibrow Davis is a New Orleans Hornets, and another fact.... the Hornets have Eric Gordon ;)

IndyRealist
08-12-2012, 06:42 PM
Since the institution of the lottery in '85, only two #1 picks have won a championship with the team that drafted them, David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Never tank. Unless you're the Spurs.

davids22
08-12-2012, 07:02 PM
As a Bucks fan, being a perennial .500 team is NOT fun or exciting. I really wish they'd take so we can get a better draft pick instead of making fringe moves that makes us a borderline 8th seed. No I'm not excited about losing in the first round of the playoffs year in and out.

Gators123
08-12-2012, 07:34 PM
I say tank but I don't mean it in the typical sense of trying to lose. You can put a team full of the young guys on the floor that play hard every night and will probably still end up with a bad record because of inexperience. Like what OKC did the first couple years for example.

ORL had the perfect opportunity for a total rebuild but now with Afflalo, Harrington, Turk, Baby, and Nelson they'll be officially in Piston territory. Bad enough to miss the playoffs but not horrible enough to get a high pick.....

:rolleyes: I think the Pistons have done great drafting the last few seasons. Haven't tanked and still got star talent. Monroe is arguably the best player from the 2010 draft, Knight was a top 5 projected pick, and we got Drummond 9th pick. Almost every scout says he has Dwight Howard potential.

You don't need to tank to get good players.

Mave1002
08-13-2012, 01:02 AM
Stay competitive. It's Lakers tradition.

Giraffes Rule
08-13-2012, 01:03 AM
Again I say learn to comprehend what you read you clearly don't know how or you just like to distort what people say or out right ignore it. Either way welcome to my ignore list, ignorant people aren't worth reading.

Oh noooooo anything but that!

MrfadeawayJB
08-13-2012, 01:28 AM
Tank, but don't make it too obvious. I dont think the league likes that negative exposure and it does not really reward it with the draft lottery (which seems fixed at times). I feel a big market team has a better chance at acquiring a first overall pick if they tank than a small market team

MagicHero3
08-13-2012, 09:16 AM
so all these people are saying "tank" instead of "staying competitive"...

stop hating on Orlando FO for this trade! seriously, you are all ridiculously hipocritical.