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View Full Version : Collins Cowherd: Bulls will not win title unless they blown up the team



bric
08-10-2012, 06:46 PM
I don't know how many of you is listen to him but this morning he was discussing this whole dwight Howard thing and he was talking at about the 38 minute mark (check today's podcast at espn radio website) I cannot post the link here, but you can verify this on his podcast

And he was stating that no wing player wants to play with a volume shooter, and how the east has improved but the bulls haven't, he even talks about the nets like they are a top eastern conference team

Would you agree that the bulls are done? I do, they made cheap moves this offseason to save cap in the future for when deng and boozer cone off the books but they forgot they have to resign Gibson and probably resign deng and if you look at the cap, they wouldn't even have enough cap to sign a max contact player if they decide to resign Gibson to a deal that nets him over 6 million a season, and even then, I ven if they don't resign hin, hey will only have 12 million in cap in 2014 if they let deng and Gibson walk and amnesty boozer

Who will you get with 12 million? Lol, Andre iguodal? Lmao

Not to mention, will Butler be better than deng by that time?

What are your thoughts?

justinnum1
08-10-2012, 06:59 PM
They need a 2nd star.

abe_froman
08-10-2012, 07:04 PM
probably not,but they're not going to blow it up.

Aust
08-10-2012, 07:05 PM
Did you just put a thread title that has Collin Cowherd in it?

kjoke
08-10-2012, 07:05 PM
They need a 2nd star.

No one wants chicago. they always seem to be everybody's second option. they need to go through the draft

Evolution23
08-10-2012, 07:06 PM
That's stupid... Deng is solid, Noah is good, Boozer is ok, they can use the Amnesty on him... They still need to upgrade at the 2 guard spot when Rose comes. Same issue with the Bulls from 2 years ago.

*Superman*
08-10-2012, 07:06 PM
They tried trading for Dwight as well. They know they need a shakeup.

yaswaggin
08-10-2012, 07:10 PM
He said it for ratings obviously

uprightciti
08-10-2012, 07:19 PM
this is true

BLOW IT UP!

give up
Deng
Boozer
Noah

PRAYYY!! Rose gets healthy

bbcmillionaire
08-10-2012, 07:21 PM
His 1st post is a bait thread? Lol we all know what the bulls need, so why make a thread about it?

bbcmillionaire
08-10-2012, 07:23 PM
this is true

BLOW IT UP!

give up
Deng
Boozer
Noah

PRAYYY!! Rose gets healthy



Why? Rose will get healthy, and dengue and Noah are 2 pieces to a championship team

Jarvo
08-10-2012, 07:25 PM
Boozer does needs to get out of Chi town he sucks and they do need a 2nd star or go to guy.

abe_froman
08-10-2012, 07:28 PM
They need a 2nd star.

we need more than that.cant realistically contend anymore with just 2,need 3 or 4 to compete in this era

More-Than-Most
08-10-2012, 07:43 PM
should they have gotten Bynum?

Gritz
08-10-2012, 07:47 PM
He's a low budget skip bayless, but they won't win anything with the roster they currently have configured

THE MTL
08-10-2012, 07:48 PM
I'm against teams blowing it up. It NEVER works out. Think of all the teams that have done it and where they are at.

Kings- Bibby/Peja/Webber 50-win team. Blew it up and they still in the lottery to this day.

Pistons- EPIC FAIL. Went from a perrenial ECF team to not making the playoffs over the past 2/3 seasons w/ no hope of making it this year either.

Warriors- blew up Davis-Richardson-Barnes-Jackson, havent made the playoffs since

The only team in this era who were good and then decided to blown it up, start over and succeed is Seattle Sonics-OKC Thunder.

Teams that have constantly reloaded are still amongst the league's best. Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, and Nuggets, Mavericks, Hawks havent missed a beat either.

Aust
08-10-2012, 08:03 PM
They need to get rid of Boozer and replace him with someone who can make more of an impact.

DeyAce
08-10-2012, 08:05 PM
He's right

ichitownclowni
08-10-2012, 08:10 PM
Did you just put a thread title that has Collin Cowherd in it?

This

THE GIPPER
08-10-2012, 08:14 PM
Well with Rose being out the whole year tanking might not be a bad option. A healthy Drose next year with a top 5 pick is better than what they have now.

Sixerlover
08-10-2012, 08:15 PM
This is the 3rd season now that the Bulls are going into with the same problem. They have the superstar, and they have some good championship type pieces, but they don't have that 2nd guy that can also turn it on when the game is on the line. Boozer is being paid to be that guy, but he's flopping at it. Deng isn't good enough, Noah is the defender, Rip was brought along to be that guy but he isn't getting it done.

It's a tough spot, because they're always going to be 50+ win good because of the lack of competitive games in the regular season, but when it's time to play Miami in the playoffs, they don't have that 2nd guy.

IAmARanger18
08-10-2012, 08:22 PM
Did you just put a thread title that has Collin Cowherd in it?

Thank you!!!

I can't stand this guy, he is a moron. We will be just fine once Rose comes back.

effen5
08-10-2012, 09:02 PM
Pretty sure no team is winning since the best teams are stacked with the best players in the league. This era has become a huge joke imo

Ezio
08-10-2012, 09:07 PM
I'm against teams blowing it up. It NEVER works out. Think of all the teams that have done it and where they are at.

Kings- Bibby/Peja/Webber 50-win team. Blew it up and they still in the lottery to this day.

Pistons- EPIC FAIL. Went from a perrenial ECF team to not making the playoffs over the past 2/3 seasons w/ no hope of making it this year either.

Warriors- blew up Davis-Richardson-Barnes-Jackson, havent made the playoffs since

The only team in this era who were good and then decided to blown it up, start over and succeed is Seattle Sonics-OKC Thunder.

Teams that have constantly reloaded are still amongst the league's best. Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, and Nuggets, Mavericks, Hawks havent missed a beat either.

Portland gave them Durant.

DaLyingofJungl3
08-10-2012, 09:19 PM
They need to get rid of Boozer and replace him with someone who can make more of an impact.

Agreed

JordansBulls
08-10-2012, 09:33 PM
Bulls blew there opportunities not trading for Melo and now Dwight.

Max Power
08-10-2012, 09:42 PM
Maybe not blow it up, but they should consider tanking it this upcoming season with the Rose injury, hoping to parlay it into another star like when the Spurs turned a David Robinson injury into Tim Duncan in the 90s

DR_1
08-10-2012, 11:36 PM
Thoughts: Cowherd is a moron.

seikou8
08-10-2012, 11:45 PM
they should tank it then get top 5 pick and they be a top 3 seed again

eibbor
08-10-2012, 11:57 PM
Well duh... It's pretty obvious.

DeyAce
08-11-2012, 12:07 AM
Bulls blew there opportunities not trading for Melo and now Dwight.

100% this

JNA17
08-11-2012, 12:15 AM
Cowherd is a total dumbass and an *******...with that said however, he might for once actually be right here.

Bulls are obviously not going to win a title with the current roster they have here, especially with Rose currently injured. Rose is only like what? 22 or something? Just rebuild around him by amnestying Boozer, trade Noah and Deng for very good picks, and start fresh.

AND NOW would be the perfect season to do it since Rose is gone the first half of the season.

last stand
08-11-2012, 12:26 AM
This is 100% true. This season is a loss anyways. They'd be better off using this season to tank and get a legit sidekick for Derrick rose

Blazers#1Fan
08-11-2012, 12:52 AM
trade boozer,deng,noah this season for picks from bobcats,cavs,jazz,warriors
Pray for james harden,ibaka,josh smith,whoever else is a free agent if they can somehow get josh smith,harden they can make a comeback maybe Bynum harden and a sf or pf

C draft pick
Josh smith
Sf draft pick
Harden
Rose

Send deng and boozer to charlotte for there 1st i bet theyd do it but then theyd have a alright team

Then send noah to The suns for there 1st

Then they have 3 picks next year and cap to sign top free agents they just gotta get rid of the 3 cap killers deng,noah,boozer or theyll be a bottom seed playoff team

NYKNYGNYY
08-11-2012, 01:16 AM
Harden and ibaka Arnt leaving and I doubt charolette would take dent and boozer for a top 3 pick ...but I do like the josh smith idea hasn't he been rumored to he traded or no? tje reason I think harden and ibaka will stay is cus okc has such a young core those guys are under 24 I see them in okc for the long haul to try to win a champion maybe not both of that's the case I thonk they keep harden best 6th man in the game and i can see ibaka in Chicago if he leaves

quade36
08-11-2012, 01:18 AM
Yeah, forget about the Bulls. They should just trade Rose to the lakers. Maybe they can get a second round draft pick in return. Maybe.... :cool:

FriedTofuz
08-11-2012, 04:04 AM
tank, get a high draft pick. Ammesty Boozer, Offer josh smith a nice contract.

FriedTofuz
08-11-2012, 04:05 AM
the bulls should Tank. Ammesty boozer. Offer Harden the max, Sign josh smith. Can they do both?

Derick713
08-11-2012, 04:50 AM
The Bulls just don't have enough pieces. Derrick Rose doesn't have the supporting cast that Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, and Blake Griffin have. The Bulls lost John Lucas, C.J Watson, Ronnie Brewer, Kyler Korver, and Omer Asik. The Bulls lost the depth and versatility that made them a threat. There's no denying that Deng, Noah, and Gibson are good pieces. Boozer isn't the answer.

bringinwood
08-11-2012, 05:51 AM
I think Harden would be the answer to the Bulls prayers...

bearadonisdna
08-11-2012, 11:38 AM
I don't know how many of you is listen to him but this morning he was discussing this whole dwight Howard thing and he was talking at about the 38 minute mark (check today's podcast at espn radio website) I cannot post the link here, but you can verify this on his podcast

And he was stating that no wing player wants to play with a volume shooter, and how the east has improved but the bulls haven't, he even talks about the nets like they are a top eastern conference team

Would you agree that the bulls are done? I do, they made cheap moves this offseason to save cap in the future for when deng and boozer cone off the books but they forgot they have to resign Gibson and probably resign deng and if you look at the cap, they wouldn't even have enough cap to sign a max contact player if they decide to resign Gibson to a deal that nets him over 6 million a season, and even then, I ven if they don't resign hin, hey will only have 12 million in cap in 2014 if they let deng and Gibson walk and amnesty boozer

Who will you get with 12 million? Lol, Andre iguodal? Lmao

Not to mention, will Butler be better than deng by that time?



What are your thoughts?

Some first post. The bulls can easily get a nice talent for 12 mil per. Besides the East is not that much stronger. The Heat are there but everyone else still right around the Bulls level. Boston is not considerably better and neithervis anyone else.

koreancabbage
08-11-2012, 11:45 AM
the bulls should Tank. Ammesty boozer. Offer Harden the max, Sign josh smith. Can they do both?

how are they going to tank? who is going to consent to that? they would have to win only <15 games to be offered the highest% of winning that pick. so nothing is guaranteed even if you tank.

You have to trade all your players for unprotected first rounders if thats the case to increase your chances and noone is worth that much on the Bulls team.

They need one more superstar player and they will be fine. Amnesty Boozer for sure. The guy is really just average now. They have the consummate role players championship teams have already. Hamilton, Noah, Deng.

Josh Smith will not help. Harden will not help. All you're getting are more role players.

bearadonisdna
08-11-2012, 11:45 AM
The Bulls just don't have enough pieces. Derrick Rose doesn't have the supporting cast that Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, and Blake Griffin have. The Bulls lost John Lucas, C.J Watson, Ronnie Brewer, Kyler Korver, and Omer Asik. The Bulls lost the depth and versatility that made them a threat. There's no denying that Deng, Noah, and Gibson are good pieces. Boozer isn't the answer.

Those are easily replacable pieces. That were voluntarilly let go, minus maybe Asik. But the Bulls can replace him in the draft. Asik may have evenbeen a second rounder.

bearadonisdna
08-11-2012, 11:53 AM
We saw what the Bulls depth and versatility got them in the playoffs last year . Ousted by a 8th seed.
So the Bulls rightfully retooled. With some players who may fit better.

justinnum1
08-11-2012, 11:57 AM
The Bulls just don't have enough pieces. Derrick Rose doesn't have the supporting cast that Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, and Blake Griffin have. The Bulls lost John Lucas, C.J Watson, Ronnie Brewer, Kyler Korver, and Omer Asik. The Bulls lost the depth and versatility that made them a threat. There's no denying that Deng, Noah, and Gibson are good pieces. Boozer isn't the answer.

well said

bearadonisdna
08-11-2012, 12:02 PM
well said

The Bulls havemore than enough to stay competitive in a top heavy east. And im using the term top heavy generously.

And thats without Rose. Listen every team in the nba is one injury away from sucking.

bearadonisdna
08-11-2012, 12:05 PM
By the logic in this thread Houston will be a top 3 seed cuz they have Asik.

nycericanguy
08-11-2012, 12:15 PM
CHI always seems afraid to make a risky move.

They didn't want to move Noah for Melo... that still baffles me. Add Melo to CHI, and keep Asik to replace Noah and CHI is legit.

DeyAce
08-11-2012, 12:21 PM
CHI always seems afraid to make a risky move.

They didn't want to move Noah for Melo... that still baffles me. Add Melo to CHI, and keep Asik to replace Noah and CHI is legit.

Thats been puzzling me for years. the FO is passionetly in love with Deng and Noah

DeyAce
08-11-2012, 12:24 PM
I think Harden would be the answer to the Bulls prayers...

you got that right:D

Me and Mr. T
08-11-2012, 12:25 PM
They were the top seed in the East without Rose for most of the year last year. They got knocked out in the first round of course, but they had a good year. To say they need to blow this team up is ridiculous. They do need someone to compliment Rose but they are a lot closer to winning a championship than most of the NBA right now.

ReJo
08-11-2012, 12:27 PM
I wouldn't mind a rebuild. Suck for a couple of years and maybe the end result is winning the Andrew Wiggins sweepstakes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRxaHP4f9d8
or Jabari Parker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwDWBfIWDy0&feature=relmfu

BcEuAbRsS
08-11-2012, 12:35 PM
I'd rather have Noah + Deng over Asik + Melo

But thats just me... and yes, the Bulls badly need a 2 guard thats is atleast above average...

JordansBulls
08-11-2012, 01:19 PM
CHI always seems afraid to make a risky move.

They didn't want to move Noah for Melo... that still baffles me. Add Melo to CHI, and keep Asik to replace Noah and CHI is legit.

This

TheRunKiller
08-11-2012, 01:26 PM
woulda won it all last season if rose didn't get hurt

justinnum1
08-11-2012, 01:33 PM
woulda won it all last season if rose didn't get hurt
lol

Dade County
08-11-2012, 01:42 PM
should they have gotten Bynum?

This is what 76ers fans should be afraid of, when Bynum becomes a free agent... All bulls have to do is amnesty and get rid of some players.

And it's the HEAT era, it's going to be hard for any team to get a ring for the next 3 - 5yrs.

fadedmario
08-11-2012, 01:43 PM
Derrick Rose
Nate Robinson
Kirk Hinrich

"Big 3"

keetyweedy
08-11-2012, 01:43 PM
woulda won it all last season if rose didn't get hurt

^:laugh:^

but to answer the question I wouldnt necessarily say they are done because they still got rose, he's only been in the league 4 yrs but I would blow up everything around him and try FA, I wouldnt mind seeing shumpert pair up with him then add somebody like a Josh smith for a 2nd star just an opinion tho

Heediot
08-11-2012, 01:49 PM
Boozer was a waste of money. What they need is to replace him with a Paul Gasol (Prime) clone. That's what their missing.

jp611
08-11-2012, 01:54 PM
CHI always seems afraid to make a risky move.

They didn't want to move Noah for Melo... that still baffles me. Add Melo to CHI, and keep Asik to replace Noah and CHI is legit.

It wasnt just Noah for Melo... How hard is it for people to understand this? It was Noah, Deng, Taj, Asik, and 3 1st round picks

justinnum1
08-11-2012, 02:03 PM
It wasnt just Noah for Melo... How hard is it for people to understand this? It was Noah, Deng, Taj, Asik, and 3 1st round picks

I thought that was the trade for dwight?...denver was asking for all that for melo?

kingkenny01
08-11-2012, 02:07 PM
if they sign harden next year it will be an interesting team a contender

effen5
08-11-2012, 02:16 PM
I thought that was the trade for dwight?...denver was asking for all that for melo?

Denver was asking for all that,

Dwight was similar but it also included the Charlotte pick

justinnum1
08-11-2012, 02:18 PM
Denver was asking for all that,

Dwight was similar but it also included the Charlotte pick

i thought they just wanted deng and noah for melo.

Cubby
08-11-2012, 02:39 PM
Why is it that this thread is clearly baiting the Bulls, but when a thread like this for the Heat gets put up it is taken down within the hour? Be consistent, mods. Christ's sake.

nycericanguy
08-11-2012, 02:47 PM
It wasnt just Noah for Melo... How hard is it for people to understand this? It was Noah, Deng, Taj, Asik, and 3 1st round picks

I never heard of such a proposal.

I always heard Deng & Noah.

Theres no way DEN would have realistically expected all that from CHI. Heck they only got 1 st rounder from NY and much less talent, yet people say they "raped" NY.

DR_1
08-11-2012, 02:51 PM
People who have posted against the Bulls in here, please learn basketball.

Thanks,
All Educated Fans

DR_1
08-11-2012, 02:53 PM
Why is it that this thread is clearly baiting the Bulls, but when a thread like this for the Heat gets put up it is taken down within the hour? Be consistent, mods. Christ's sake.

This

JordansBulls
08-11-2012, 02:53 PM
i thought they just wanted deng and noah for melo.

Yes that was the deal.

hugepatsfan
08-11-2012, 03:00 PM
I agree that the Bulls need to blow it up. That's not to say I think they're far off now because I don't. I think what they have is almost good enough to win it all. However, I don't see realistic possibilities for them to aquire players to push them over the top.

cooldavid3169
08-11-2012, 03:05 PM
The guy is right if they wait to blow it up and the bulls players lay an egg this year without their superstar then no one will want to trade for there players. The big problem they have is none the superstars want to play with Rose.

jp611
08-11-2012, 03:14 PM
I thought that was the trade for dwight?...denver was asking for all that for melo?


i thought they just wanted deng and noah for melo.


Yes that was the deal.

No, it wasnt... It was Noah, Deng, Taj, Asik, and multiple firsts... You are one of the people who said it was just Noah for Melo and said that Noah faked his injury so he wouldnt get traded... You're ridiculous

Derick713
08-11-2012, 03:15 PM
We saw what the Bulls depth and versatility got them in the playoffs last year . Ousted by a 8th seed.
So the Bulls rightfully retooled. With some players who may fit better.

I think the loss to the 76ers had more to due with the team losing heart after Derrick Rose went down. That really took them out of the series mentally. The Bulls played harder and smarter all year and banked on Rose's return. Once he went down for the season the team was left demoralized.

justinnum1
08-11-2012, 03:28 PM
I didn't know tim hardaways nieve was roses' girlfriend

Derick713
08-11-2012, 03:29 PM
I could see the Bulls making a hard push to sign Josh Smith given he provides a Kevin Garnett like presence on defense. The dilemma the Bulls face is that there aren't many game changers on the market. The Bulls know that Carlos Boozer isn't going to get it done against the likes of Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol, Serge Ibaka, Blake Griffin, Zack Randolph, Amare Stoudemire, and etc. Plus there's no point in hindering the development of Taj Gibson. The Bulls have to find a player or two that can anchor the team along with Rose. Right now they have good parts that can make it interesting.

Derick713
08-11-2012, 03:36 PM
Just look at what Kobe has compared to the Bulls. The real problem the Bulls have is that they are not willing to go beyond the luxury tax like all the other contenders.

PG- Steve Nash/Steve Blake/Chris Duhon/Darius Morris/
SG- Kobe Bryant/Jodie Meeks/Andrew Goudelock/
SF- Ron Artest/Earl Clark/Devin Ebanks/
PF- Pau Gasol/Antawn Jamison/
SC- Dwight Howard/Jordan Hill/

jp611
08-11-2012, 03:42 PM
Just look at what Kobe has compared to the Bulls. The real problem the Bulls have is that they are not willing to go beyond the luxury tax like all the other contenders.

PG- Steve Nash/Steve Blake/Chris Duhon/Darius Morris/
SG- Kobe Bryant/Jodie Meeks/Andrew Goudelock/
SF- Ron Artest/Earl Clark/Devin Ebanks/
PF- Pau Gasol/Antawn Jamison/
SC- Dwight Howard/Jordan Hill/

They will go over the tax, they are over it right now... The problem is they want to avoid the ramifications of the repeater tax penalty down the road (great idea, especially with a cheap owner)... While teams like LA and Miami are paying hundreds of millions of dollars on the repeater tax penalty in a few years, the Bulls will be able to load up while other teams are shedding salary

faze38
08-11-2012, 04:19 PM
He is right I mean this league has stacked team after stacked team. If the Bulls want a shot at winning they need to make a move but blowing it up is dumb. If they could get LA our a Zach Randolph, Rudy Gay, or even tank to get Muhammad they could be right there with the best. Rose is an amazing talent and with another piece they can win!

Punk
08-11-2012, 04:21 PM
He's sort of right. They need to blow up the current roster make up. Rose & Noah are keepers and figure out how to get a Rudy Gay or Josh Smith.

They need to build it like OKC and get a piece to fit next to Rose that is around his age and a quality player. Eric Gordon would have been perfect.

jp611
08-11-2012, 04:22 PM
Rudy Gay is so ****ing overrated... He is not pushing the Bulls to a title, I'm sorry, he just isnt

chitownbulls
08-11-2012, 04:32 PM
I think we're fine for a few years, I think everybody knows we won't compete as well but in a few years we have our own European stud coming in, the Bobcats draft pick, and hopefully A LOT more cap room wiht an amnestied boozer. :pray:

This team still has promise

in a few years

Rose
Whoever they get with cap room
Deng
Mirotic
Noah

isn't bad at all

JordansBulls
08-11-2012, 05:52 PM
Rudy Gay is so ****ing overrated... He is not pushing the Bulls to a title, I'm sorry, he just isnt

This. I can't believe Bulls fans hang there ha on this guy.

Tony_Starks
08-11-2012, 06:17 PM
I wouldn't say blow it up, the core is pretty good and young. They're a couple smart moves away from contending. But as presently constituted they don't want anything to do with Miami and for damn sure not the Lakers.......

effen5
08-11-2012, 06:23 PM
This. I can't believe Bulls fans hang there ha on this guy.

Not sure what youre talking about, majority of bulls fans don't want him.

justinnum1
08-11-2012, 06:23 PM
This. I can't believe Bulls fans hang there ha on this guy.

I don't see any bulls fans wanting him. Some wanted melo

NBAFan2012
08-11-2012, 08:13 PM
It sucks because the Bulls have NOOOO ONE.

Aside from D Rose, they have NOOOOO ONE. It would be amazing if they even make the playoffs next year

RLundi
08-11-2012, 08:15 PM
Completely agree. I just think the Bulls will always be a great regular season team as presently constructed but I don't necessarily consider them championship contenders.

NYtilIdie
08-11-2012, 08:21 PM
The Bulls use to be title contenders, until 3 or 4 teams decided to eat the rest of the league up and consume every big player.

naztrack
08-11-2012, 09:17 PM
I heard when Collin said this and trust me he is on point with this. The Bulls have fallen behind and they didnt get that second star, there first star is in danger of not being the player he use to be, they lost alot of good defenders on that old squad...i honestly think they might not even make the playoffs this up coming season. Rose will miss significant time, they lost two pgs already (i think). they should save them selves some time and blow up the team and just keep noah and rose.

juggla53
08-12-2012, 03:15 PM
5 years ago the way this team is constructed would have been fine with a super star and a bunch of good complimentary pieces but now they are in desperate need of another star, getting boozers contract off the books will be huge, he can still play in the nba but not nearly for what they are paying him

juggla53
08-12-2012, 03:18 PM
I'm against teams blowing it up. It NEVER works out. Think of all the teams that have done it and where they are at.

Kings- Bibby/Peja/Webber 50-win team. Blew it up and they still in the lottery to this day.

Pistons- EPIC FAIL. Went from a perrenial ECF team to not making the playoffs over the past 2/3 seasons w/ no hope of making it this year either.

Warriors- blew up Davis-Richardson-Barnes-Jackson, havent made the playoffs since

The only team in this era who were good and then decided to blown it up, start over and succeed is Seattle Sonics-OKC Thunder.

Teams that have constantly reloaded are still amongst the league's best. Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, and Nuggets, Mavericks, Hawks havent missed a beat either.

in the case of those two teams they just got old they really didnt get blown up, its funny how in the case of the pistons the darko **** up didnt look like that big a deal at the time because they were very good over the next five years but wow does it look bad now, it really changed the face of their franchise in the long run to not have a guy to build around